Dáil debates
Thursday, 4 March 2021
Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate
Qualifications Recognition
5:10 pm
Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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My time is short, and I do appreciate my colleagues, Deputies Gannon and Tully, joining me in this debate.
Nothing really brings shame to the Department of Education more than its treatment of special needs assistants, SNAs, who we send into the war against Covid in classrooms throughout the country without basic provision for their own safety and without any sense of when they will be vaccinated. It is quite clear that when it comes to actually paying them, however, the Department will do everything it can resist that temptation. What we are talking about here is proper accreditation for the certification which they receive. We are having difficulty in getting that accreditation. The suspicion is the Department does not want to sanction such accreditation because it would mean SNAs would have to be properly paid. On that basis, I am interested to hear the Minister of State's response. I am also interested to hear the contributions of my colleagues.
Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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Over recent months, we have rightfully heard how truly essential our SNAs are. This was never not the case. However, it has never been reflected in their remuneration and conditions of employment. Right now, more than 500 SNAs are taking an extraordinarily difficult course at UCD, where some of them have worked in excess of 60 hours since January trying to improve their skills, knowledge and awareness. At the end of that, they will not be given an accreditation comparable with any other course of a similar difficulty being offered in the country. That is simply unacceptable. Why does the Department and the Government not put their money where their mouth is in relation to SNAs to ensure they are accredited properly for the work that they are doing and, beyond that, ensure their pay and conditions are commensurate with how truly essential their contribution is to schools throughout this country?
Pauline Tully (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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For far too long, SNAs have been treated as the poor relation within education. They deserve respect, and where they undertake training, it must be properly accredited and recognised. The Minister of State encouraged SNAs to take part in the first national training programme for SNAs at UCD. However, no clarity has been provided on the accreditation of this course. SNAs are going around in circles trying to get this clarity. While SNAs are spending a huge amount of time studying and putting the work in for this course, they deserve to know what qualifications they will come out of it with. They deserve to know what impact it will have on their employment, their rights and their entitlements. At the minute there is dithering, delay and confusion as to what the Department of Education is going to do about this and how it will be recognised. It is not good enough. The Minister, Deputy Foley, and the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, need to resolve this with the Minister, Deputy Harris, and the institution involved. SNAs who are working hard and trying to upskill through courses like this deserve to know what status the qualification will have, and it must be clarified urgently.
Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputies for raising this matter today. I assure the House that the education of children with special educational needs is a key priority for this Government. The Government will invest in the region €2 billion this year in supporting children with special needs, which is over 20% of the total education budget. By the end of this year, there will be 18,000 special needs assistants employed in our schools. As the Deputies have pointed out, the SNAs play a huge role in supporting the inclusion of pupils with significant care needs in education and in school life. This was acknowledged in the Comprehensive Review of the Special Needs Assistant Scheme, published by the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, in 2018.
The review made a number of recommendations regarding SNAs and the need for a more broadly based set of supports, including therapeutic supports for pupils with complex needs. The review also referenced the training needs of SNAs. In this regard, the NCSE recommended that a new national training programme at level 5 of the national framework of qualifications be developed for existing SNAs who do not have the requisite level of training and for new SNAs on appointment.
The NCSE also recommended that training tailored to the specific complex needs of some students being cared for by SNAs should be provided.
The policy advice has been considered by the Department and the value of an accredited programme is recognised. The Department is committed to the development of a strategic framework for SNAs that will identify need and provide quality training in a timely manner. In order to begin providing a foundation for this, it was decided that initial priority should be given to the development of a training programme for SNAs who may not have had a recent opportunity to access a training programme tailored to their role. The initial aim of the new programme is to provide training, not a professional qualification. This might provide some clarity to the Deputies on that specific question. This is the first national training programme for SNAs employed by the State and it is tailored to their needs. I assure the Deputies that the programme will be evaluated and the outcome will inform the approach to the training of SNAs in the future.
The Department recognises that a more strategic approach is required for the training of SNAs. This would deal with a number of matters, including the identification of need and the provision of appropriate training programmes. The issue of programme accreditation will be considered further in this context. I look forward to its development. A public procurement competition was held for the development and delivery of a new national training programme for SNAs. A detailed specification of need and learning outcomes was developed and published for the competition. Following evaluation of the tenders received, the contract was awarded to University College Dublin's school of education, in conjunction with its school of nursing, midwifery and health systems.
A total of €2.5 million has been allocated to this programme over the next four years on the basis of a full uptake of 3,500 SNAs. My understanding is that some 2,500 SNAs have applied for the training, which meant this phase was oversubscribed, and the first cohort of 500 were enrolled in January. The programme consists of five modules delivered online over a ten-month period, with a two-month break during the summer period. Flexibility is a key part of the approach to the delivery of the programme. It is important to stress that it is a voluntary programme and something SNAs have been seeking for a considerable period of time. I stress that as it is a new programme, it will be evaluated and the outcome of that evaluation will inform future policy, including policy on accreditation.
5:20 pm
Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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The Minister of State knows, I know and, indeed, the cat knows that teachers would not be treated as SNAs are being treated because the Department would not get away with it. It is clear that the Department has a long-standing issue or policy when it comes to dealing with SNAs in that they are not treated with the same level of respect as teachers. We have seen that throughout the pandemic, from announcements being made without the sign-off of the union representing SNAs to the absolute debacle of the redeployment process last year.
Now we have a situation where the Minister of State has given a speech to the House that is very well-meaning but which shows that she will not do what we require her to do, namely, afford SNAs the credit and respect they deserve for the training they do. I suggest to the Minister of State that she should work harder to put in place the accreditation that SNAs are seeking for the training they do. This would show them that the Department recognises that theirs is a profession of which they can be proud, instead of leaving them always to feel that they are being undermined by the Department.
Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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I thank the Minister of State for her response. It was an honest contribution, but contained within that honesty was clarity as to just how unhelpful it is. A total of 500 SNAs are undertaking a course that will not be accredited. We are supposed to alleviate the concerns of those 500 people by telling them the training will be assessed in the future and that other groups of trainees, perhaps, will be accredited for doing the same training. That seems quite insulting. If I were undertaking that course, I would be fairly demotivated.
The Minister of State said that the course has no cost for participants but that is not true. The effort involved for those SNAs in doing their day's work and then coming home and trying to provide childcare while they do a course online is a cost in itself. For that, they will not receive any accreditation. Even worse, they are being told that taking this course may be of assistance to them in pursuing further education. Equally, however, it may not be of any such benefit.
We need some urgency around this issue. I fully appreciate what the Minister of State is telling us but it is not good enough. All we are asking for is clarity as to what level SNAs will be accredited at for completing quite a difficult and worthwhile course. The Minister of State needs to do better on this matter.
Pauline Tully (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Like the two previous speakers, I am somewhat disappointed with the Minister of State's reply. SNAs are professionals and they want to do their job as well as possible. They are willing to undertake this training to improve their abilities. Without SNAs, many students would be excluded from education. Their work is imperative to ensure inclusion. I ask the Minister of State to go back and revisit this matter. There must be an incentive for SNAs to improve the work they do through this training programme. Members of other professional bodies would not be asked to do work for which they do not receive some sort of accreditation and which could be reflected in their employment conditions and pay.
Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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It is not a fair assertion that my Department and I do not care about treating SNAs well. This course provides the very first opportunity for many SNAs to engage with the theory and research-based practice which underlies their role. I accept that the training is not yet accredited, which is not to say that it never will be accredited. We have to start somewhere and this is very valuable training. It is testament to its value that there have been so many applicants. It is a very well-considered course with excellent modules contained within it. It will provide a really good grounding and training, which, as I said in my initial response, is what the NCSE has recommended. The aim, in the first instance, is to provide really good training as opposed to a professional qualification. The Deputies will appreciate that we cannot suddenly go from a zero base to accreditation without evaluating the outcomes of particular courses. I reiterate that the outcome of the course will be evaluated and will inform the approach that is taken into the future.
We have 70% more SNAs now, at nearly 18,000, than we had in 2011, when there were 10,500. As the first Minister of State with a dedicated remit of special education, I certainly have, at all times, tried to look after SNAs, whether that involves the provision of PPE or taking care of other aspects of their well-being. We have written to the Department of Health to see whether we can get them moved up the vaccination schedule. We are doing everything we can to support them. This training is a stepping stone for SNAs and it will result in much better training in the future.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputies for raising this important matter and the Minister of State for coming to the House to respond to it.