Dáil debates

Tuesday, 28 July 2020

Ceisteanna - Questions

Cabinet Committees

3:25 pm

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on housing will next meet. [16885/20]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on housing will next meet. [18562/20]

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on housing will next meet. [18794/20]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on housing was established by the Government on 6 July and its first meeting will take place this Thursday, 30 July. In addition, I have already had a bilateral meeting with the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government to review housing issues. The committee will oversee implementation of programme for Government commitments relating to housing and will receive detailed reports on policy implementation and consider relevant policy actions.

The committee’s membership comprises the Taoiseach; the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment; the Minister for Climate Action, Communications Networks and Transport; the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage; the Minister for Finance; the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform; and the Minister for Social Protection, Community and Rural Development and the Islands. Other Ministers or Ministers of State will participate as required.

The committee will operate in accordance with established guidelines for Cabinet committees and substantive issues will be referred to the Government for discussion and approval. I look forward to the committee helping to ensure effective delivery across all Departments of the ambitious housing commitments in the programme for Government.

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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I thank the Taoiseach. It is quite surprising the first meeting of the Cabinet sub-committee is only taking place on 30 July.

This is probably one of the most critical Cabinet committees at any time, but particularly now. The Taoiseach might explain why it has taken this long for the committee to come together, given the discussions we have had today and in recent weeks regarding housing. During this economic crisis, I would like to have seen much more from the July stimulus that would have had direct impact on housing. Alas, that was not to be.

According to the latest official figures, some 8,876 people were homeless in May, including 2,787 children. This is a scandal and shows that housing is not affordable for many people. The only good news I can take from those figures, if it is possible to take any good news from it during a pandemic, is that they are down from a peak in excess of 10,000 people in February, including more than 3,500 children. That tells us clearly that one good thing is that the emergency rent freeze and moratorium on evictions have worked, as we in the Labour Party said they would all the time.

I want to make a legal point. I heard for a long time that putting in place a rent freeze was going to be impossible. I heard that from the previous Government. I heard it from Fianna Fáil while supporting the previous Government. I knew the rent freeze was possible, however, because I did it. How was it possible, constitutionally, to bring in a rent freeze when the same people sitting around the Cabinet table said that it was not constitutional? The Taoiseach and his party supported that and the previous Government.

A real issue regarding the Cabinet committee is its make-up and the roles of many outside bodies. The Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government can never deliver housing unless all the levers are in his possession. That means that the Minister for Finance must be completely in tune, but also the local authorities. The Minister must ensure that the local authorities are 100% in tune to ensure delivery. That is particularly the case when it comes to affordable housing, cost rental and the measures committed to in the programme for Government. That triumvirate has to work very closely together and I would like that reflected in how the Cabinet committee works.

The main reason that homelessness is down by nearly 1,000 people in three months, including 700 fewer children, is because families are not being evicted from private rented accommodation. The first action of this Government in the crisis, however, has been to end such legal protections in the future. If homelessness can go down by 1,000 people in three months, it is certain that homelessness can increase just as quickly, especially when so many people are losing their jobs.

3:35 pm

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I ask Deputy Kelly to conclude.

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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I am concluding. I have some questions for the Taoiseach. When will we have the full timetable regarding how often the Government's Cabinet committee on housing will meet? When will the cost of housing, including the cost of building a house, be treated as a priority? Finally, what is the Government going to do in the short term regarding those who have rent debt, which is going to crystallise in the coming weeks and months? How is that situation going to be dealt with, because in some cases the cost will be thousands of euro?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is remarkable news that the Cabinet committee on housing did not meet in advance of the significant and hugely retrograde decision, made in the Bill now passing through the Dáil, to open the door for a resumption of evictions into homelessness in the middle of a pandemic. I find that extraordinary. I do not know if the Government does not understand or, worse, does understand the implications of the Bill now going through the Dáil. Let us be clear, however, that it removes most of the emergency protections that were put in place to prevent people being made homeless and evicted because there is a public health emergency. That public health emergency still exists and people made homeless now will have their health imperilled as a result of the pandemic, and the Government will be responsible. Yet, that issue has not even been discussed at the Cabinet housing committee. That is an extraordinary admission from the Taoiseach.

I ask the Government, even at this stage, to pull back from that decision because the number of people presenting for homeless services has dropped dramatically as a result of the ban on evictions. By the way, when People Before Profit put forward a Bill to ban evictions in the previous Dáil, the Fianna Fáil party supported it. I do not understand why that party is now supporting a plan to lift that ban on evictions into homelessness in the midst of a pandemic, when it is really unthinkable to put people on the street, into shared accommodation where they are more vulnerable to the virus, or into overcrowded conditions, where they are also vulnerable to the virus.

I will quickly ask about one other issue. Walking about Dublin city during the pandemic, I met an elderly woman from the south inner city. She asked me to go and take a look off Aungier Street, where a row of beautiful old buildings is run-down and empty. That elderly woman said the situation was shocking because people in her area, including her children and grandchildren, needed to be housed, yet some landlord was sitting on those empty buildings. That story is repeated in towns, villages and cities across the country, where landlords, property owners and vulture funds sit on empty properties that could be used to house people. That is really taunting the people on the housing waiting lists and nothing is being done about it.

Does the Taoiseach have any plans to go on an aggressive campaign of getting hold of hoarded land and empty properties that could be used to house people impacted by homelessness and, more generally, to address the lack of social and affordable housing by getting that property into use in respect of the dire housing crisis?

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Residential Tenancies and Valuation Bill 2020 that the Government is seeking to rush through the Dáil this week is a far cry from the Fianna Fáil new deal for renters that was promised by the Taoiseach just a few months ago. In fact, he and his Government are now moving to allow for rent increases, notices to quit and the misery that will ensue in the heat of a global pandemic. It is noteworthy that the Cabinet committee has not yet met.

The protections in place have resulted in a significant drop in the number of families presenting as homeless and the lowest number of families in emergency accommodation in the past three years. The emergency measures also confirm the argument that we, along with Focus Ireland and others, have made that banning vacant possession notices to quit has played an important role in reducing homelessness. It is to the great shame of Fine Gael that it took a pandemic for the previous Government to take the actions necessary to protect renters. It is to the great shame of the Taoiseach, however, that he is now withdrawing them as the pandemic continues.

Many renters, as the Taoiseach will be aware, are under great financial pressure. They do not earn huge salaries and do not have that luxury. They believe, as I do, that there is a huge gulf in understanding between their reality and the reality of those who govern. In that light, will the Taoiseach inform the House whether he is still drawing down the €50,000 top-up from the Fianna Fáil party leader's allowance? Will he make that clear to the Dáil?

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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This morning, FM radio stations across the country were quoting Government sources as stating that the Residential Tenancies and Valuation Bill 2020 offers protection for tenants on the pandemic unemployment payment, PUP, and the temporary wage supplement scheme, TWSS, until the new year.

Those Government sources did not say that these protections will not apply to tenants on the PUP and TWSS when landlords plan to evict on the grounds of sale of property, refurbishment of property, relatives moving into the home and so on and so forth. In fact, the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government earlier told the Dáil that he has information which indicates that 28% of evictions in the State take place on the grounds of rent arrears. He also indicated that approximately three quarters of tenants who have protection from eviction today will no longer have those protections in two weeks' time.

The Taoiseach is no doubt aware that the end of the moratorium on evictions in New York city last month has resulted in an explosion of evictions in that city. How on earth can he guarantee the Dáil and renters in this country that the same thing will not happen here in the months of August, September and October, as we move towards the autumn and winter?

3:45 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In response to the comments of Deputy Kelly and others, I do not think there is any surprise that the Joint Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government is meeting approximately a month after the Government was formed. I met very quickly after the formation of the Government with the Minister and his Secretary General to discuss a range of issues, including homelessness and preparations for the July stimulus programme, particularly in respect of voids. I wanted specific funding for that and the Minister included it in the July stimulus programme. That funding will allow local authorities to bring approximately 2,000 council houses back into operation and in which people may be able to live before the end of the year. That funding was provided in the July stimulus programme, in addition to funding for water infrastructure and the help-to-buy scheme which will help those who are endeavouring to buy a house. The Minister also had to deal with rates relief which was separate to the housing issue but also fell under his policy remit.

Of course, the first weeks of this Government have been spent dealing with Covid-19 and the July stimulus programme, which is a €5.2 billion programme of expenditure and tax that seeks to give a lifeline to the Irish economy during this time. I do not think that the housing committee not meeting until 30 July is a big deal. It is a reasonable timeframe and does not mean that the Government has not been engaging on housing issues. We have been doing so, particularly through the Cabinet sub-committee dealing with the July stimulus programme.

I would also say that homelessness is on a downward trajectory in part due to the rent freeze and eviction moratorium but also due to the fact that more than 1,000 extra units were provided in Dublin alone, with up to 1,400 units provided nationally, for the homeless during the Covid crisis. That had a big impact. One of the good stories, if one can use that phrase, during this crisis has been the low level of infection among the homeless and that the virus did not spread into settings where one might have anticipated. That is a result of the great work of all those in NGOs, the HSE and local authorities who work for homeless people. People have worked collectively to avoid the spread of the virus within homeless settings.

The other key factor in that downward trajectory is the fact that more and more properties are now becoming available. We have for the first time seen the impact of Airbnb on property in Dublin and other cities. I have said to the Minister that an opportunity now exists to purchase and access vacant leases and properties, as Deputy Boyd Barrett also said, with a view to keeping homeless figures down and to get proper, fit for purpose accommodation for people who need housing. There has been a decline in Airbnb properties and a consequent increase in the supply of available properties because of Covid-19. That represents an opportunity that needs to be grasped to try to get more people houses more quickly.

In the context of the point made by Deputy Kelly, the Ministers for Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Housing, Planning and Local Government are on the housing Cabinet sub-committee. It is important that they work with local authorities and I know that the relevant Minister has been in touch to discuss working with them. I think that was the point the Deputy was making.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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The time has elapsed, Taoiseach.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I also want to deal with the questions asked by Deputies Boyd Barrett and McDonald, if I may. On the evictions moratorium and rent freeze, the only reason we are introducing the Residential Tenancies and Valuation Bill is because they were not legally tenable. The Bill will give a stronger statutory footing to protect tenants who are in rent arrears from being evicted during the Covid crisis. Tenants who make a declaration under this legislation cannot be evicted and that will remain the situation until January. The existing statutory instrument was grounded in the emergency legislation around Covid and given the reopening of society, it was not legally grounded or constitutional. We are now almost six months on and we have been advised, trenchantly and strongly, that the State is vulnerable to challenges and so on. It is not legally tenable to maintain the existing situation. This Bill is stronger and better than similar legislation in other jurisdictions, including Northern Ireland, where the Minister gave tenants 12 weeks' grace. Statutory protection for renters in the Republic is now much stronger than that in the North.

I say to Deputy McDonald that I was never in receipt of an annual allowance of €50,000. The allowance was €30,000 and I did not take it for the first three years. The Oireachtas passed legislation a long time ago under which leaders of Opposition parties were entitled to an allowance in respect of the overall resources of the party. That money is taxable and I am not in receipt of it now. Those are facts and bear no relation to questions about housing but, of course, the Deputy had to throw it in for some reason or another.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Time is up.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Speaking to Deputy Barry's point about the end of the moratorium, we will continue to monitor the situation. We are bringing in legislation to strengthen the position of those in rent arrears and facing eviction. There are other protections in the Bill that allow for the Residential Tenancies Board to assist renters and strengthen supports for those in rent arrears. We have no desire to see more evictions or people getting into rent arrears. We want to do everything we possibly can to assist people in difficulty and will continue to do that.