Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach his plans for a high-level review of the economy to be led by his Department. [15760/20]

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach his plans for a special Cabinet committee on restoring jobs lost in the pandemic. [15903/20]

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 and 5 together.

As committed to in the programme for Government, a national economic plan will be developed in the coming months to chart our longer-term, jobs-led recovery. The plan will put sustainability at the heart of our fiscal, enterprise, innovation and environmental policies. As part of the development of the new national economic plan, my Department will lead a high-level review of the economy. This review will seek to identify the sectors that have the greatest opportunity to grow and sustain quality employment in the future. It will be an opportunity to consider, along with relevant Departments and sectors, how Ireland can adapt to a very changed global economy.

The Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment has been established and first met on Wednesday, 8 July. The terms of reference of the committee are to oversee the implementation of programme for Government commitments aimed at sustainable economic recovery, investment and job creation. The committee will operate in accordance with established guidelines for Cabinet committees and substantive issues will be referred to Government for discussion and approval. The Cabinet committee’s immediate focus is the development of proposals for a July jobs initiative in line with the commitments in the programme for Government. This will have a short-term focus on jobs as a first step towards the longer-term national economic plan to follow in the autumn.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach might set out for us the arrangements for chairing each of the Cabinet committees. If I understand it correctly, there will be a rotation between the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the leader of the Green Party. Will the Taoiseach set that out, and the basis upon which these committees were allocated to each of them?

I refer to the high-level review of the economy. This is to be led by the Taoiseach’s Department, yet the Tánaiste is chairing the Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment. I would like to know how those meet and marry. I would also like to know who is in charge when it comes to the economy, economic planning and all of that lift that needs to be made. The Tánaiste has the line Ministry. He chairs this Cabinet committee, his party colleague is in the Department of Finance and so on. Is the Taoiseach answerable to them or is he, as Head of Government, in charge of this critical part of policy and this initiative?

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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The July stimulus will be announced next Monday, which will be a key component in the initiation of this committee. As regards the make-up of the committee, the Taoiseach might give further detail as to who will be involved. He keeps talking about specialists. Will he bring in specialists to sit on this committee? When I sat on Cabinet committees, specialists were brought in. The Taoiseach seems to have a new thematic analysis of everything so I presume he will bring in people all the time. Will he supply us with the details in this regard?

The July stimulus will be the key deliverable from this committee from day one. What quantum will be spent on that? I do not expect the Taoiseach to go into the detail of the stimulus now but it would be rather unfortunate and it would not look good if he did not know the quantum he will spend on it. Covid-19 has been a disruptor across a range of areas but that can deliver some positive change despite everything. What is the Taoiseach’s feeling on new economic modelling that we can be generated from this? How will hope be given to young people, in particular, and how will economic inequality be reduced? How will it be ensured that as part of this process, through that restructuring and that disruptor effect, those who get a stimulus from this will respect the industrial architecture of the State and the various processes and the decisions we have made in regard to protecting people’s incomes, in particular those in low-paid jobs or in the gig economy?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Regarding the Government and its formation, when we published the programme for Government we attached a document on the functioning of Government. I emphasise again that three parties came together. My overall objective is to ensure the three parties work seamlessly and in co-operation in getting the work of the nation done, and I take that very seriously. My ego is not going to get in the way of doing the right thing. We agreed we would share the chairing of various Cabinet committees. I am keen to have Cabinet committees established to follow through on the implementation of the programme for Government. I have been in government previously and if committees are well organised, they can work very effectively in pulling different Departments together to get things done. My Department tends to be the Department in government that pulls the different Departments together, in particular its economic division.

The Tánaiste, as Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation, will chair the Cabinet committee on economic recovery. The Minister, Deputy Ryan, will chair the Cabinet committee on environment and climate change. I am chairing a range of other committees dealing with Covid, housing, health, social affairs and equality committee, education and European affairs. The European committee will meet before every EU Council to bring a cross-departmental approach to it, and in relation to Brexit and Northern Ireland. There is a Government co-ordination committee involving myself, the Tánaiste and the Minister, Deputy Ryan, leader of the Green Party. The structure is designed to enable Government to work with respect to the three parties in a seamless and effective way. That is the objective of the exercise.

Regarding the economy generally and the July jobs stimulus, the Ministers for Public Expenditure and Reform and Finance have key roles and will do much of the running in taking ideas from other Departments in respect of the July stimulus. The Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, will have the difficult task of making decisions on what will make the cut - one will excuse the word "cut" as it is the wrong word in this case because this is-----

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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Might be.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is, because this is a significant expenditure stimulus of the economy. I refer to the projects that will be identified and prioritised, the key as well being the pandemic unemployment payment and the wage subsidy on which the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, has ideas.

I will not give Deputy Kelly the final quantum today because that will be announced on the day and work is still under way. There will be a further Cabinet committee meeting tomorrow evening, specifically in respect of the July stimulus. Various ideas and submissions have come in from different Departments. The focus is on trying to get shovel-ready projects and endeavouring to get credit and funding to the SME sector in particular. That is why much of the legislation this month will work in tandem with the July stimulus. A great deal of good legislation is getting done this month thanks to the co-operation of everybody in the House, which we appreciate. That will underpin much work that is contained within the July stimulus as well.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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If I have heard the Taoiseach correctly, he will have housing, health, education, Europe, Brexit and the North, the Green Party will have environment and climate change, social affairs and equality, and the Tánaiste and Fine Gael have economic recovery and investment.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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They do not have the Chairs. We chair it.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I mean by way of chairing. We are discussing the Chairs of the committee. That is implicit.

That is a strange tripartite division of labour. It seems that Fine Gael will have its fingerprints all over the economic strategy and approach of this Government. That is not something I welcome. That certainly is not something that working people across this State will welcome because they all know from bitter experience what that will amount to. Whatever about the initial flurry and rhetoric about stimulus, we know ultimately who Fine Gael will protect and whose interests it will advance when things get tight, and I assure the Taoiseach it is not the working families the length and breadth of this land.

This Government co-ordination committee brings the three wise men, or otherwise, together. It strikes me that the Taoiseach has an awful lot of apparatus of government. I accept the need for expertise, but this looks clumsy. It looks like perhaps the Taoiseach's partners in government cannot accept that he is, in fact, the Head of Government and he is in charge. I say this because we need somebody to be in charge. The job of Taoiseach cannot be contracted or subdivided between different political actors. That, I say in all seriousness, is not an approach that will bring cohesion; that is an approach that will bring confusion and that, it strikes me, is born of rivalry rather than any strong co-operation. The body charged with good governance and overseeing the programme for Government is the Cabinet as a unit in a collective fashion.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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I concur, as somebody who has served in government, not as long as the Taoiseach but more recently. This will not work. There will be confusion all over the place. There is no consistency. The Taoiseach will have competition between committees in respect of funding and actions and it is a recipe for disaster.

I asked a number of questions which the Taoiseach ignored regarding young people and economic models, particularly in relation to stimulus funding being given out and the quid pro quobeing respecting the architecture of the State, sectoral agreements on wages, etc. The Taoiseach will not answer regarding the size of the stimulus package. I do not know whether he knows. Is a quantum agreed at this point or not? The Taoiseach might confirm that a quantum is agreed, if he will not tell me the amount.

With regard to capital funding under the stimulus package, in addition to shovel-ready projects, I encourage the Taoiseach to support tourism projects because in my experience this worked. Tourism is taking a massive hit this year. This is a way of getting funding into the regions and the tourism areas. I refer to small capital projects where funding is being spent to improve products and facilities which, hopefully, will help them to come back next year. There are a raft of them left over that should be used.

There is much talk about targeted VAT cuts. I have a different opinion on this. What is the Government's current thinking on that? If there were changes, there would have to be some form of finance Bill in conjunction with it.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not clumsy at all; I think it will work as a structure. Having been in previous Governments, I know that co-ordination is key. In coalition Governments - this is a three-party Government - where one has regular engagement, particularly between the three leaders and also to avoid issues that may be disruptive or may cause difficulties, it will require hard work but that is needed to maintain cohesion.

The Cabinet co-ordination committee is a good idea. It does not only comprise the three leaders. It involves the Secretary General of my Department and the three advisers to each party leader. The idea is to review the programme for Government, make sure it is being implemented, identify any issues that are causing difficulties and see whether a resolution can be found. It is not the dominant committee in the work of the Cabinet. It is there to prevent issues from festering and becoming bigger issues than they should and to develop trust between the three parties, and that is working. It worked during the negotiations and it will continue.

I take Deputy Kelly's point on the architecture of workers' rights. We will be cognisant of that, as well as the climate. In fairness, the July stimulus arises quickly but there is much work done. We will publish it next week. I refer to Deputy's point on tourism. I would like to hear his ideas on tourism in terms of the tax measures that might be optimal for the industry.

It is interesting that many people are saving at present. There are a lot of savings in the banks and elsewhere. One of the issues is, can we engineer greater expenditure over the next while domestically to give an impetus to the economy. The key areas of the wage subsidy and the pandemic unemployment payment are important but other initiatives can be taken as well that could lead to jobs in the short term to deal with the disruptive impact that Covid represents. One of the dangers is that Covid is not going away. It could be with us for the next 12 months or more unless a vaccine arrives. Even then, that will take time too. We must try and fine-tune our economy and our model to meet the realities of living with Covid.

That impacts on tourism, travel and the more global side of our economy, without mentioning Brexit, which is coming around the corner.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Was the Government co-ordination committee convened to deal with the issues regarding the Minister, Deputy Cowen? Is that the mechanism the Taoiseach uses to brief his partners in Government on all of the serious issues arising, including the contested Garda PULSE records that suggest the Minister sought to evade a Garda checkpoint? The Taoiseach has said the co-ordination committee involves not only the leaders but the Secretary Generals of their Departments. I understand the Secretary General of the Department of the Taoiseach is the only Secretary General present, although the other leaders' advisers attend. The Taoiseach says it is a mechanism by which to sort out problems and to ensure that things do not get overly contentious or overheated. Will the Taoiseach talk us through that committee? I presume its first task, as the Taoiseach has only just entered government, was to deal with the situation regarding the Minister, Deputy Cowen. How did that work?

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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There is a bit of confusion about the co-ordination committee. Will the Taoiseach tell us exactly who is on it and who can be on it? Is that decided on a case-by-case basis? Who are the defined people who will definitely attend all meetings?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is my understanding that it is in the functioning document.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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That has not changed and will not change at all.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Anything can change over time.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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If the Taoiseach is considering changes, will he tell us so now?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The committee has not been convened to deal with any one issue, including the situation pertaining to the Minister, Deputy Cowen. It will meet in advance of every Cabinet meeting to discuss the Cabinet agenda, including legislation which may be on the agenda on which agreement may not yet have been arrived. Ordinarily, agreement will have been arrived at. Someone may say his party wants to consider an issue further or to push a memorandum back by a week pending resolution of some issue which has arisen. That is the essential purpose of the committee. Any issue can be raised at a meeting, however. Separately, there are other mechanisms whereby the leaders can discuss issues. The three leaders can meet at any stage, outside of the Cabinet co-ordination committee, to discuss any issue.

Deputy Kelly also mentioned young people. The July stimulus is very much focused on the needs of young people in particular.