Dáil debates

Thursday, 5 December 2019

Scouting Ireland: Statements

School Placement

5:15 pm

Photo of Malcolm ByrneMalcolm Byrne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Acting Chairman for the opportunity to raise the issue of the shortage of second level school places in Wexford and Gorey towns. I thank the Minister for being here to respond.

The issue of the shortage of school places in Wexford town and Gorey featured in the by-election, but this has been a live issue for a number of years. I and others have been in communication with the Department of Education and Skills and with the Minister's predecessors on this matter. The common response tends to be that the Department thinks there are enough second level places in the area. However, it clearly does not understand what is happening in Wexford and Gorey. Both are progressive and growing towns, and both primary and secondary level principals in the area know there is a problem because of the numbers coming through at primary level. Two school extensions were built in Wexford but they did not extend sufficiently to accommodate the growing number of students. A bus travels from Barntown, which is just 5 km outside of Wexford town, to New Ross every day with more than two dozen second level students so they can attend school there. There are two excellent schools in Gorey, namely, Creagh college and Gorey community school, but they have been under a lot of pressure for a number of years, about which we have been warning the Department. A sticking plaster arrangement was agreed last year to accommodate students. After speaking with the schools today, it looks like they could be short up to 69 places next year, although arrangements may be in place to accommodate them. I wanted to ask the Minister about this because he has visited the area and understands the problems first hand. Can he guarantee that every child in Wexford and Gorey towns and their immediate hinterlands will have school places in their respective towns? That is the immediate challenge.

The second matter is the longer-term challenge, because the school populations are continuing to grow. The problems of this year and next year will pale into insignificance in comparison with the numbers of pupils currently in fourth classes in the area. What provisions will the Minister make when we reach that demographic bulge? We have been seeking a second secondary school in Gorey for some time and have identified that need to the Department. Wexford County Council has said that a site is available, and if that site is not suitable, plenty of land can be zoned to facilitate that school. We need to start that process now because the planning and tendering will take some time. The key issue here is the worry it is causing parents and children who do not currently have school places. It is worrying for those who do not have an offer and are on waiting lists, but also for those with children in fifth or fourth class, as they know this problem is only going to get worse. I would be grateful if the Minister could inform us of the immediate plans for this year, as well as the long-term plans to address the demographic bulge.

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Ar dtús báire, gabhaim comhghairdeas leis an Teachta agus a chomhghleacaí ar son a mbua tríd an bhfothoghchán a chuaigh thart. Gabhaim onóir mhór orthu faoi choinne a bpoist nua, chomh maith leis an díograis agus an tsárobair a rinne siad tríd an toghchán. Gabhaim comhghairdeas leo arís.

The new Deputies are up and running. They are not going to hang about, and they have only been here a few hours. I extend my congratulations to both the new Teachtaí Dála in front of me in particular. They both have considerable education experience at both higher and second levels, which will add value to the debate in this House. This is where we need to continue to work and explore new ways of doing things. I wish both of them well.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. As he noted, I am familiar with Gorey and I had the opportunity to meet different primary school principals when I visited the area. I was invited there by Deputy Michael D'Arcy. Long-term issues were on those principals' minds at that time, and they even pointed to third classes and where the pinch points would be in years to come. We continue to look at the demographics in such areas, using a geographical information system and planning permissions. We work very closely with the officials within the planning unit in Wexford County Council as well. Wherever there are options, we look at them seriously. We always look at existing capacity in schools within in area. There are over 314 school planning areas within Wexford, including Creagh college and Gorey community school in the Gorey area, as the Deputy pointed out. I have been in both schools, and they are fantastic schools with fantastic leadership.

If there are issues, fears or uncertainties for September 2020, I ask the Deputy, through his own communication channels, to encourage the principals to get in touch with the Department. As of now, we have not had contact with the principals, but we are open to helping if there is any uncertainty. The Deputy used the word "worry" and said that parents are worried about 2020. There is a long-term worry as well, but I reassure the Deputy and anyone listening to this in the Gorey area that we will not allow a situation to emerge where there are no places for secondary school students in the Gorey area in September 2020. We will continue to work to prevent that happening. Other areas such as Kilcock have been raised in the House in the last few weeks, as well as north Dublin, Skerries, and east Cork. There is also an issue in Trim. The principals and the officials in Tullamore are engaging with each other in each of those cases. We try to keep on top of such issues. Last August we dealt with a temporary situation in Ennis and provided a solution at that late hour. It is now December so we have good time to put this together, but I am not working on the basis of providing a solution for September 2020. We will continue to analyse the data and look at the projections and planning permissions. We are looking at the long-term issues as well, but that decision will be based on demographics.

Photo of Malcolm ByrneMalcolm Byrne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister on behalf of my colleague and myself for his welcome to the House. We both look forward to engaging with him constructively on policy matters with regard to education.

I welcome his commitment and assurance that every child in Gorey and Wexford towns will be guaranteed a school place in one of those towns in 2020. That will provide some level of assurance. I appreciate that there will be difficulties but I welcome the Minister's commitment that we will get the solution for 2020. However, there remains a long-term challenge.

Looking at current projections is fine but if we continue to see young families moving into the area, in addition to the primary school enrolments, this will present a challenge. Nearly every board of management meeting in schools in the area deals with transfer requests so that is causing additional pressure. While I welcome the Minister's commitment that we will not have a problem in 2020, what I would like to hear is that there will be some sort of commitment regarding looking at 2021 or 2022 because additional school places are certainly needed in Wexford town and in the case of Gorey and north Wexford. It is very clear and certainly the schools have communicated, as have Wexford County Council along with myself and others, that we need a third second level school in the town. The Minister will appreciate the length of time it takes for that to be built, a patron appointed and so on. We really need that process to start now to ensure that this school is in place by 2021 or 2022.

5:25 pm

Photo of Joe McHughJoe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I assure the Deputy that we will continue to monitor developments. He is correct in saying that there have been representations in terms of looking at future capacity. We are trying to build and project towards the future. Under Project Ireland 2040, our plan is to spend over €12 billion in capital infrastructure across the primary, second and third level sectors and to spend €8.8 billion in the primary and secondary school sectors between 2018 and 2027. We need to do it in a managed way, project and acknowledge the fact that Gorey is now a commuter town for Dublin city. I am very much aware of that. People are making the decision to move there and commute to Dublin so we must take all these factors into consideration.

A total of 840 students are enrolled in Creagh college. It has a capacity of 1,000. Obviously, there is no pinch point there this year but there is always the next round of enrolment. We will continue to monitor developments. Where I would ask for the Deputy's indulgence and observations is in the area of inclusion. When I say that every student will not prevented from going there, we will not be in a position in terms of space. We must continue challenging ourselves and that means everybody. There are challenges around special education. There are special education units in Creagh college. Other challenges will present themselves in the future in terms of a fully inclusive education system but I know that the Deputy's own considerable experience and that of his colleague beside him in education will be invaluable in this debate. One of our obligations under the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities is a fully inclusive education system. This will require far more thinking around how we move forward as a country but also ensuring that we do not dismiss the things that are working because we have 126 special schools. I was in one yesterday. There is still a need for special schools but we must also continue to challenge ourselves in respect of parents' choices to either send their children to a mainstream or special school.