Dáil debates
Tuesday, 21 May 2019
Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate
Road Traffic Legislation
6:30 pm
Noel Rock (Dublin North West, Fine Gael)
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We have discussed the issue of electric scooters in this House several times. Since then several things have changed. In the area covering the Dublin 2 and Dublin 1 postcodes, An Garda Síochána has started impounding and detaining these vehicles and taking them away. In recent times, the Road Safety Authority, RSA, has decided to update the advice on its website in respect of these vehicles. The website was not clear. Perhaps this reflects the lack of clarity in the law.
One year ago, I raised this issue with the Minister in a parliamentary question as a member of the Joint Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport. I forewarned of this issue. At the time, the Minister said it was not envisaged that the position with regard to the need for regulation or legislation in respect of these vehicles would change in the immediate future. Does he now accept that the position has changed and that there is a need to clarify in law and regulation the status of these vehicles?
In the past hour, the Fianna Fáil Party has belatedly agreed with this position and is launching its proposed legislation on the plinth at 2.30 p.m. tomorrow. This is to be welcomed, as is further focus on this issue. I wish we had foresight in respect of the problems that have so predictably arisen with this new technology. We must now nevertheless legislate for it in hindsight. Fianna Fáil's move in this regard is welcome.
Last week, I met representatives of several institutions and companies that are interested in this area. Many of them are setting up in this country and many others have started operating here. I met representatives of several companies on the DCU Alpha campus in Glasnevin. They are world leaders in creating technology in this sector. It is impressive stuff. Ireland could become a leader in this area but to do so requires foresight to allow the sector to grow and develop.
In the absence of law, there are now far in excess of 2,000 users of these vehicles in the city. Lest we forget, they are also used in many European cities where they are effective. They are a reflection of many of the values the Government espouses, including many of the aspirations of the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. They are green and environmental. They reduce congestion and increase the onus on us to improve cycle lane investment. I am at a loss to understand why the Department has been stonewalling on this issue for so long and why responsibility for it has been handed to the Road Safety Authority one full year after I first raised it in the House. I am also at a loss as to why we have been reactive instead of proactive on this issue.
In reply to my most recent of many parliamentary questions, the Minister cited several international experiences that were negative. Much of what was put to me on the record in reply to my parliamentary questions about the international experience was not correct and was, in fact, erroneous. There are many positive international experiences and lessons that could be brought to bear in light of the first wave of these vehicles that occurred some years ago. We can now do things with technology that we could not do three or four years ago to safeguard pedestrians and other road users as well as allow for the effective and safe use of these vehicles.
I was surprised and alarmed by the conservative approach taken in the most recent reply to my parliamentary question. I would welcome it if the Minister clarified his remarks. I would welcome some clarity in respect of the overall issue. Is the Road Safety Authority report available? Do we know when it will be available? What is the Minister's position on this issue?
Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I thank Deputy Rock for raising the issue of electric scooters and providing us with the opportunity to discuss it.
I am of course aware of the increasing number of electric scooters, electrically powered skateboards and similar small vehicles on our footpaths and roads. I will start by advising the Deputy of the current legal position in respect of such vehicles. It is important that we get such clarity on the matter before we go any further or make any statement about it. The Road Traffic Act 1961 defines a mechanically propelled vehicle as a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means, including a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used. It also includes a vehicle, the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical. Electric scooters and powered skateboards fall into this category and are, therefore, considered to be mechanically propelled vehicles. Any users of such vehicles in a public place, as defined in the Road Traffic Act 1961, must have insurance, road tax and a driving licence. There are penalties under road traffic laws, including fixed charge notices, penalty points, fines and possible seizure of the vehicle, for not being in compliance with these requirements.
As it is currently not possible to tax or insure electric scooters or electric skateboards, they are not considered suitable for use in a public place. As the Deputy knows, I have requested the Road Safety Authority to research how electric scooters and other such vehicles are regulated in other countries, particularly other EU member states. I am keen to understand the road safety implications of the use of such vehicles on public roads, especially when interacting with other vehicles. Road safety is paramount. I am due to receive the outcome of the authority's research within the next few weeks. Until I have received it, I will not make a decision on what actions, if any, to take. I will need to be persuaded that permitting such vehicles on our roads will not give rise to safety concerns for the users themselves and for all other road users, including cyclists, pedestrians and motorists. In this context, I expect the Road Safety Authority to include in its consideration whether there is a potential inability of the scooterist to obey some basic rules of the road; difficulties with lighting electric scooters so that they are easily visible to other road users; the absence of suspension or shock absorption, which places the scooterist in danger on an uneven road surface; and insurance issues in the event of a collision. The Deputy should further note that, should I decide the benefits derived from the use of electric scooters outweigh the risks associated with using this type of transport, an amendment to primary legislation would be required.
Noel Rock (Dublin North West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister. The genesis of this issue, and of the different perspectives from which we are coming at it, arises from the definition of a mechanically propelled vehicle in law. There is an ambiguity in this regard. For instance, the Minister referred in his answer to a vehicle being powered by mechanical means. He needs to clarify his answer in that regard because it raises a question as to whether he meant a vehicle that can solely be powered by mechanical means. The Minister left out the crucial word "solely". He has effectively dragged electric bicycles into this grey area along with electric scooters on account of the vagueness of his answer. He gave a similar answer to a previous parliamentary question.
As anyone who uses an electric scooter or who has watched the RTÉ "Prime Time" report on them knows, it is impossible to achieve 100% of any journey on an electric scooter without manually intervening. One needs a manual intervention to start up these vehicles, and must reach 5 km/h via manual propulsion to start them. It is only then that an electric motor kicks in, and one continues the journey from there. The journey is, therefore, not 100% mechanically propelled and, accordingly, it is commensurate under the current law with electric bicycles. There is no threshold for which a mechanically propelled vehicle can be defined in law currently. The vagueness of the law needs urgent clarification. The incomplete understanding of various State agencies is exactly why there is ambiguity right now. That ambiguity is precisely what will end up being challenged in court and it, therefore, needs to be clarified in law urgently.
6:40 pm
Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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The Deputy is asking me to take a position on this before the RSA completes its report. I am not going to do that. We have people who have made a detailed study of what happens both here and abroad, and for me to make a decision in advance of that would be absurd. I may have a disposition, but the RSA is an agency with some authority and interest in safety, which I notice is absent from the Deputy's representations. Safety is paramount. The most important thing is that passengers, travellers, and people in other vehicles should be safe, and that is the most important element of these particular e-scooters, which the Deputy is seeking to have introduced. If they are introduced, it is important to me that the RSA gives a judgment on whether they are safe for the people affected by them, and I am not just talking about those who are on them.
It is also very important that the Deputy does not make statements without backing them up. He said there were events which were being quoted of incidents overseas, which did not happen. He said they were erroneous. Let us get the detail on that. I have quoted facts and figures about what has happened in other European cities to him. They are well known, and those details, as far as I know, are open to correction but have not been corrected.
Noel Rock (Dublin North West, Fine Gael)
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I will correct them.
Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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If they should be corrected, let us have them corrected. The Deputy also said, without any basis whatsoever, that to allow these scooters will reduce congestion. The evidence, as far as I know, shows the opposite of that. Those who are proposing to use and are using these particular e-scooters are swapping from bicycles, buses and other means of public transport. They are possibly taking up space. Let us not have some un-backed up, unsupported evidence here. My position is open. I am prepared to take authoritative advice, not populist advice from the Deputy.
Noel Rock (Dublin North West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister advising on populism is an Alanis Morissette level of irony.