Dáil debates

Thursday, 21 February 2019

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Light Rail Projects

4:35 pm

Photo of John LahartJohn Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am delighted to be joined by my colleague, Deputy O'Callaghan, and our transport spokesperson, Deputy Troy. One area in which we would like and welcome reprofiling is that of the MetroLink project, albeit not in respect of metro north, as we have made clear. In spite of the commitments that the Minister gave two weeks ago during a Topical Issue debate that there would be no deviation in the MetroLink project, clearly that is now on the cards, and we on this side of the House are taking the opportunity to welcome it.

While this Topical Issue mentions specific towns, villages and townlands like Firhouse, Knocklyon, Rathfarnham, Templeogue and Greenhills, the link that we would like to see pursued could not reach those places without first going through Terenure, Harold's Cross and Rathmines, for example. My colleague will address that issue.

Investment in public transport infrastructure projects ought to be democratic. There are parts of Dublin that are well served with the green Luas line, the best and most successful quality bus corridor, QBC, in the country and the DART line. Then there is a vast gap between the green and red lines of the Luas where no adequate public transport is promised. It is a part of Dublin that the Minister served for five years while he was a Deputy.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I still am.

Photo of John LahartJohn Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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This is not the first time that my colleagues have called for this, nor is it a recent development. Back in the day, I regularly called for the connection of the red and green lines. The obvious approach is to connect those two and bring them back into the city again.

For a vast swathe of the city, the reprofiling of the MetroLink project offers a once in a lifetime opportunity for the Government to invest hard-earned taxpayers' money into areas where there is a significant lack in the provision of public transport and where the National Transport Authority, NTA, is attempting to shoehorn BusConnects into front gardens and business premises along the affected routes.

Photo of Noel RockNoel Rock (Dublin North West, Fine Gael)
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I welcome this morning's report and the mention in The Irish Timesof a north link proposal. I welcome the clarity that is beginning to be brought to this issue. I welcome that the NTA has followed the suggestion that I made in this Chamber and, last year, in the committee to resolve the south side impasse that had been bogging this project down.

My first choice is for the project to proceed as is from Sandyford to Swords as the NTA set out and as the Minister has argued for in public. It is a good and worthy project, a good investment and a great legacy project for the Minister to attach his name to. However, it is clear to me and, I presume, the Minister that the south side squabble and the endless succession of unsolicited, uncosted and untested alternative routes that have been put forward by all parties and none mean that this project is unlikely to proceed in a timely manner. Accordingly, our options are: to proceed with the project in two phases, which I suggested last year, and commence the badly needed and long overdue metro north element first; and to assess the various alternative routes set forth by the Opposition, thereby certainly delaying the badly needed and long delayed metro beyond 2027. I cannot understand why parties are proposing something that would effectively shaft the north side, which has been promised the metro for three decades, and I hope that the Minister will not accept it. A third option is to run the risk of no metro project at all, which is the least desirable option.

I am running out of time, so I will keep my first question to the Minister simple.

Given the report in the Irish Independentthat the Minister sought and had a crisis meeting with the NTA and given the report in The Irish Timeswhich details that the proposal which will come before the public mirrors my suggestion that the northside project proceed first, can the Minister confirm this is his current understanding of the forthcoming proposal? If not, can he confirm what the forthcoming proposal from the NTA is?

4:45 pm

Photo of Jim O'CallaghanJim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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If it is the case that the proposal to dig up the Luas green line has been abandoned, I welcome that. It was a crazy proposal considering that hundreds of millions of euro were spent on constructing a very effective and popular Luas line. I ask the Minister to bring clarity to the matter because such clarity does not exist. We have read reports in newspapers. Does the Minister know whether the proposal has been abandoned?

The Minister also needs to recognise that a metro on the southside should not be abandoned. As Deputy Lahart and I have repeatedly argued, Dublin is crying out for a metro service to places in the south west of the city such as Terenure, Templeogue, Firhouse and Rathfarnham, which are areas outside my constituency. It is necessary to have a proper effective metro system in the city.

The Minister will also be aware that there is a proposal in respect of BusConnects. Some of the proposals are useful. We need to have faster bus traffic into the city and we need cycle lanes, but there is also a proposal that would significantly impact people living on Kimmage Road Lower, Rathfarnham Road, Terenure Road East and Rathgar Road. In respect of the last three of those roads, it is proposed that the NTA compulsorily acquire up to 6 m from the front gardens of houses in the area. This would cost a fortune is impractical and is vehemently opposed by people in the area.

We need sensible joined-up thinking in respect of transport proposals for the city. I ask the Minister to recommend to the NTA that it keep the drilling machine to be used for the metro project from the airport into the city centre and direct it south-west to those parts of the city that are crying out for public rail infrastructure. As Deputy Rock said, that would be a great legacy for the Minister to leave. However, he needs to identify what the political objectives are. If he does so, he would secure support of local communities. There is an opportunity to link up the metro system and the BusConnects system and solve a problem by coming up with a single integrated plan.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I thank the Deputies for raising this Topical Issue matter. Obviously, I have read the media reports this week regarding MetroLink and the NTA's development of a preferred route for public consultation. I can confirm that I met the NTA this week to be updated on the project. Separately, I also met the chair of Transport infrastructure Ireland, TII, recently during which the issue of MetroLink was discussed.

I have said repeatedly in the Dáil that the NTA and TII are developing revised proposals regarding MetroLink. It is obvious that those revised proposals will take account of the issues already raised by members of the public during last year’s public consultation. That should not be a shock to anyone here as it is the reason we have public consultations. I welcome that State agencies under my Department’s remit are very proactive in engaging with members of the public and listening to their views.

Last year’s emerging preferred route gave rise to much public commentary, particularly regarding a number of different local areas across the city. Major transformative projects will always cause impacts, although those impacts are ultimately intended to be positive. We all know, however, that in order to get to that place, there can occasionally be unwelcome and sometimes unpalatable impacts.

There is always a delicate balancing act between delivering an effective project and doing so in a way that minimises disruption. I have made clear that it is very important that members of the public can continue to travel conveniently in Dublin. That is essential, and travel disruption needs to be minimised. That is precisely what the NTA and TII are seeking to do. That are seeking to develop a new cross-city public transport corridor via Dublin Airport and out to Swords and, in doing so, increase capacity on the Luas green line. In trying to achieve that ambition, they are also listening to the views of the public, particularly people living those along the Luas green line, on what level of disruption, if any, is acceptable to deliver the increased capacity the line needs. We need to deliver, once and for all, the long-awaited cross-city link via the airport and out to north County Dublin.

It would be inappropriate for me to comment on particular alignments or proposals while the statutory agencies are still completing their work. As I have stated previously in this House, we need to move away from designing transport projects by press release and instead move towards what members of the public deserve, namely, planned and integrated development of public transport and land use strategies. We have a statutory transport strategy for the greater Dublin area which covers the period from 2016 to 2035. That strategy is the basis for the development of an integrated transport system for the entire greater Dublin area. It includes proposals across all public transport platforms, including metro, light rail and bus. Development of the strategy was subject to a full public consultation period and any and all interested parties were able to make their views known.

The Deputies have specifically about the Rathfarnham-Terenure corridor. I assure them that the needs of the entire city were considered by the NTA in drawing up its transport strategy. That strategy included looking at present and future travel demands on all the key corridors. The extremely detailed analysis conducted concluded that the actual and forecasted demand along the Rathfarnham-Terenure corridor does not meet the threshold that would justify a metro style service. The corridor is relatively low density with limited potential for new development. The present and future transport demand levels on the corridor are such that they can best be met through an improved bus service. That is exactly what BusConnects will seek to provide. MetroLink is a big project, one on which we all have views. I reassure the House that, as Minister, I have two key priorities here, namely, delivering an improved public transport system to serve the needs of the public now and into the future, and making sure that the agencies do this in a way that avoids unacceptable travel disruption. I have told my agencies that it would be unacceptable to have the Luas service closed for a significant period. I have also told them that the suggestion Deputies have read about in the media that there would be closures for four years or something approaching that is absolutely off the agenda. I will not countenance that sort of a delay or anything reflecting a fraction of it on any major piece of infrastructure or artery into any of our cities.

I will encourage everyone to engage again with the NTA and TII when they launch their new public consultation after publishing their preferred route in the coming weeks.

Photo of John LahartJohn Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Today was the first time I saw a reference to a delay of four years. In terms of the original MetroLink plan, despite what the Minister said, no one has queried the fact that running the metro along the existing Luas green line would shut down the line for up to two years. As the Minister rightly recognised, to shut it down for a period of even two weeks would be catastrophic for commuters. He needs to clarify that. He has not denied that the MetroLink project could close the line or parts of it for up to two years, which would be catastrophic for commuters.

The Minister also said - I am glad he put it in writing - that the Government does not support the provision of Luas or metro style transport to the various areas mentioned in my constituency. I will bring that news back to my constituency. The Minister made similar remarks when he launched Project Ireland 2040. At the time, I stated in the House that Project Ireland 20140 had nothing for my constituency of Dublin South West. He has just reaffirmed that there will be nothing for my constituents in any review or reprofiling of MetroLink. I guarantee the Minister will revisit the matter very shortly.

Photo of Noel RockNoel Rock (Dublin North West, Fine Gael)
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I asked one straightforward question which was not answered. Does the report in this morning's edition of The Irish Timesalign with the Minister's understanding of the proposal based on his meetings with the NTA and TII? That question deserves an answer. Many people in the northside have been waiting in anticipation of this project for two to three decades. It seems we are at an impasse and there is a need for clarity. I opened my statement by welcoming the clarity in this matter and now I am opening my supplementary remarks by asking for clarity. I would genuinely appreciate some clarity on this matter.

Deputy Lahart named 11 areas for alternative routes, which are uncosted and untested. The Minister correctly noted previously that these routes simply do not have the population density to justify a metro project.

Photo of John LahartJohn Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Is that Fine Gael policy?

Photo of Noel RockNoel Rock (Dublin North West, Fine Gael)
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The reason the current alignment of Sandyford to Swords was chosen was to facilitate access to Cherrywood and the Sandyford industrial estate. People need to travel this route because the Luas green line will reach maximum capacity by 2027. The route was included in Project Ireland 2040 for this reason and we want it to go ahead.

Photo of Jim O'CallaghanJim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with the Minister that we need to move away from designing transport projects by press release. Unfortunately, because of leaked information published in a newspaper today and yesterday, we seem to be designing transport projects by press leak. There is a legitimate public interest in the public being told if the information published in a newspaper today was correct or not. Obviously, the Minister knows much more than he is telling this House. It may be that he cannot tell the House but he can give us an indication as to whether he is prepared to stand up to the NTA if it persists with its proposal to dig up the Luas green line.

I also believe the Minister, Deputy Ross, needs to question his civil servants more and he needs to question the statutory bodies that report into him. The Minister is renowned as a person who can stand up and express his own opinion. I ask that he expresses his own views in respect of the fact that the south west of this city is not served by any rail infrastructure. There is an increasing division in Dublin between east and west. The east side has the Luas and the DART while the south west side, areas of which are represented by Deputy Lahart, is not served by any rail infrastructure and it needs to be.

4:55 pm

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I am very happy to express my own views to the National Transport Authority, NTA, and Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, about Government policy. I have noticed that all the Deputies here, quite understandably, have been representing their own constituencies in this area and that is absolutely fine. I must, however, look at it on an overall basis. I will not comment on any particular alignments that are being planned at the moment. I can tell the Deputies opposite that after a very thorough examination and analysis of the route the NTA found that there was not the population to merit the Terenure-Rathfarham link. That is the finding they made and that is the story.

Photo of John LahartJohn Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Yet they want to run a bus every four minutes on it.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I am happy to tell the Deputies this and comment on that route because that was their finding and I am being as open as possible about it.

In response to Deputy O'Rourke I cannot tell him any more than this because he is asking me to publish a route at this stage, which of course I have no intention of doing. The NTA and TII will shortly publish a preferred route. This will reflect the NTA and TII's consideration of issues raised in the first consultation and how best to address them. This will include how best to minimise disruption. The NTA expects to publish this around the second half of March and Deputies will just have to wait for this. When it has been published the NTA will then hold a new public consultation on a preferred route, and after this a decision on the final route will be made. This will be submitted to An Bord Pleanála at which stage statutory consultation periods will take place. This is the way it works. It works in this way for a very good reason.

Reference was made to the periods of four or two years and so on. I repeat to Deputy Lahart that I said four years because that was the subject of press speculation. I just said it so I can be quite emphatic that I would not tolerate a situation of a four year interruption to people on a major infrastructural line. It would be impossible to tolerate that. This was one of the suggestions.

Photo of John LahartJohn Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Would the Minister tolerate two years?

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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Two years is too long also. I have made this absolutely clear. That would be a major issue in a capital city, or any other city, and it must not happen.

Photo of John LahartJohn Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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That is the proposal.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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It may be a proposal but it will be a proposal that will not cross my desk.

Photo of John LahartJohn Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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It has crossed your desk.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I will not sign on a proposal of that sort.