Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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11. To ask the Minister for Finance his views on the details surrounding a loan sale (details supplied) which was sold off market and for less than 10% of its original value; if he is satisfied that NAMA is not in breach of section 2(iv) of the NAMA Act 2009, which requires it to protect the interests of the taxpayer; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [48606/18]

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I raised the issue of the Project Nantes loan sale in this House in May 2017 with the then Minister, Deputy Noonan. He told me that NAMA could not reveal any information on this loan sale under sections 99 and 202 of the NAMA Act. The current Minister refused to answer twice, on the same grounds, but sections 99 and 202 do not apply to the Houses of the Oireachtas, yet the Minister has allowed NAMA to hide behind them. I had to write to the Committee of Public Accounts to ask it to get involved. NAMA was forced to begin a legal review into the sale and the Comptroller and Auditor General has now become involved. Does the Minister not think that, in the public interest, he too should become involved?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I have already dealt with the background to this in a debate with Deputy Catherine Murphy, so I will not repeat what I said to her. I will answer Deputy Wallace's direct question clearly, however. It is my strong view, and a requirement under law, that the relevant oversight body for this matter is the Comptroller and Auditor General. NAMA is in communication with him and his office and this is the way I believe it should be dealt with.

A correct consensus grew in the aftermath of the crisis that politicians should step out of particular roles and away from making decisions they may have made in the past. I believe it is correct that certain work has to be done on a non-political level, including the regulation of our Central Bank and decisions made by NAMA or banks. If there are issues with organisations such as NAMA, then it should not be politicians who inquire into them, but it appears that, while this consensus sometimes suits some people other than Deputy Wallace, other people call on me to get involved when there are issues they want to be addressed.

The right way for this to be dealt with is through the Comptroller and Auditor General. The Deputy fulsomely acknowledges the work he does and, if there is an issue, his office will inquire into it. As I said to Deputy Murphy, NAMA has given assurances on how the matter was dealt with.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I have great respect for the work of the Comptroller and Auditor General, as I do for the Minister, but I still believe the Minister should get involved. Avestus took over Quinlan Private in 2010. The three principal directors, Olan Cremin, Thomas Dowd and Peter Donnelly, had borrowed heavily during the boom, mainly from Anglo Irish Bank, and owed €489 million when the crash came. The €489 million went across to NAMA and NAMA assembled a portfolio with €352 million of this debt, naming it Project Nantes. The three boys went off to America to find someone to put up the money and found a company called Clairvue. They then set up a shelf company in Luxembourg called Clairvue Nantes and installed another director of Avestus, Mark Donnelly, as a director of the Luxembourg company. He had been a director of Avestus since 2010 and became a director of Clairvue in 2012. The company bought Project Nantes for €26.6 million, with a discount bringing the price to under 10% of the original value. This sale is in breach of the NAMA Act for multiple reasons. It was off market, at a knock-down price and, worst of all, the purchaser was connected to the debtor, which is illegal under section 172 of the NAMA Act.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I reiterate that it is now accepted that politicians should not be involved in inquiries into organisations as vast and significant as NAMA nor should we be involved in their day-to-day operations because of the pressure we could come under. If the Deputy is willing to accept that, he should be willing to accept that the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General is the right body to do this work. The Deputy respects that office and has publicly acknowledged the work it has done. The Comptroller and Auditor General has requested further information and the Committee of Public Accounts is aware of this. The right thing is for that information to be supplied and, if the Comptroller and Auditor General reaches any conclusions on the issue, it could then be something for me to deal with. We have to allow due process to take place and an independent body like the Comptroller and Auditor General to do its work. NAMA has provided information to me and I have put it on the record of the Dáil. I have to respect the independence of the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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There is no doubt that the Comptroller and Auditor General is a serious operator and he is a credit to his office, but he has found it very difficult to get information out of NAMA. It was very obvious during the protracted Project Eagle case that NAMA was very reluctant to co-operate with the Comptroller and Auditor General in a fair manner. NAMA is deliberately downplaying the requirement of section 172, but a purchaser is not allowed to be a NAMA debtor nor to have any connection to the debtor, yet Mark Donnelly was a director of Avestus and Clairvue. This is a deliberate breach of section 172 and all NAMA's talk does not change that.

I accept the philosophy that politicians should not get involved and that other people with the appropriate remit should play their role first, but I see the Government getting involved in things on different occasions in this House and this is one I would love to see the Minister get involved in. I have great respect for him and I believe he could do something really good by doing so.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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If I did, I would be getting involved in work the Comptroller and Auditor General is doing and undermining any conclusion he may reach on how this matter was dealt with. The Deputy has named individuals and has given his view on them but I have to ensure due process is followed. This is work that is under way in the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General and it would be utterly inappropriate for me to reach a view on this matter until that work is concluded.