Dáil debates

Wednesday, 3 October 2018

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

National Planning Framework

2:40 pm

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Four Members have tabled the next Topical Issue. They each have one minute to make an initial statement. If they exceed it, they will be depriving a colleague of time.

Photo of Pat CaseyPat Casey (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We were informed by email that we would have one minute and a half each for an initial statement, followed by 30 seconds for a supplementary question.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputies have one minute each for an initial statement followed by 30 seconds for a supplementary question.

Photo of Pat CaseyPat Casey (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Let us begin. The clock is ticking.

Photo of Frank O'RourkeFrank O'Rourke (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Casey is nearly out of time.

Photo of Pat CaseyPat Casey (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As the Minister of State, Deputy English, is aware, I raised this issue in the House and at committee as soon as the draft national planning framework was published. I expressed my concerns, of which he is well aware, at that stage. Those concerns were confirmed when the national planning implementation roadmap was published at the start of the summer.

I will refer to Wicklow specifically in the few seconds I have remaining. The county development plan adopted only a year ago and approved by the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government provided for population growth there of 42,500 up to 2031. However, the proposed national planning framework implementation roadmap now provides for population growth in Wicklow of 22,750 in that period, a decrease of almost 50%. That has serious implications. Some €120 million has been invested in critical infrastructure in Wicklow town but planning permission for housing in the town will not be granted until 2026 and even then only permission for 20 houses will be granted. Arklow has not had a waste water treatment plant for 30 years but is now getting one. However, under the plan only 24 houses may be built there per year.

Photo of Fiona O'LoughlinFiona O'Loughlin (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sixty seconds is insufficient time to explain the potential crisis and problem which will affect not only my county of Kildare but also County Wicklow and the Minister of State's home county, Meath. The draft plan indicates that 53% of all growth in County Kildare will be in the northern metropolitan part of north Kildare but I wish to address Newbridge and south Kildare. Newbridge is the economic and trading centre of the county but it needs a mechanism to allow it to grow and develop sustainably as a town. We want an opportunity for the people of the six towns, 32 villages and 18 settlements of south Kildare to live, obtain employment, have access to services such as schools and have communities. However, this plan will stymie growth. Under the plan, only slightly more than 8,000 residential units may be built in south Kildare up to 2032. That number has already been exceeded in planning for Newbridge and County Kildare. The plan is ridiculous. It will push up the price of housing, ensure that we will not have affordable housing at a time of great crisis and prevent development of the infrastructure needed in south Kildare.

Photo of Frank O'RourkeFrank O'Rourke (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The introduction of the national planning framework makes no sense in the middle of a housing crisis when we are seeking to have residentially zoned land developed in an attempt to address the housing issue which is under discussion in this House every day of the week. It does not stack up. I have spoken to private individuals and representatives of the local authority about this issue. In my constituency of Kildare North, land currently zoned for housing would be dezoned under the national planning framework. Building in various areas would be stopped. Significant funding is being invested through the local infrastructure housing activation fund, LIHAF, and other funding streams to deliver ring roads, bridges, waste water treatment plants and so on. Under the national planning framework, that infrastructure would be built but the houses it will service which were planned for development and growth of certain areas under the guidelines and plans that were in place would not. I ask the Minister of State to take on board the argument my colleagues and I are making, namely, that equalisation of population may make sense at some point in the future, but it does not make any sense now. It must be done on a phased basis over a five or ten year plan or more but certainly not overnight. We ask him to consider this issue because it is having a serious negative impact on local authorities and north Kildare, which I represent.

Photo of James LawlessJames Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It need hardly be restated the housing crisis is in full swing - one can almost hear the drums outside the House on Kildare Street. Every inch of available land is being considered for development. Funds such as LIHAF have been put in place and every kind of assistance and support is available to ensure such land can be developed to provide housing units. However, while we are in the centre of this crisis, under this plan land is being dezoned and further growth in the commuter belt is actively being curtailed.

The population of Naas, the county town of Kildare and a tier 1 growth town under every plan for the past 20 years, is projected to grow to 50,000. Local authorities, State agencies and public representatives of all hues have been working towards that goal. Infrastructure has been put in place. Some €110 million is being spent on the N7 bypass and Sallins train station has been massively upgraded. Several new schools are being built in the area.

The Osberstown wastewater treatment plant is being upgraded. I refer to the Naas ring road and the Sallins bypass. The Millennium Park employment centre is being built, with the Kelly Group and other multinational companies locating in the area. Everything that is needed for growth of a county town with a population of 50,000 is in place, including the infrastructure, services and other supports. It has been planned and ready to go for the past 20 years and just as we are on the cusp of that coming good, we are now being told to pull down the curtain, turn away and build no more. That is insanity at any time, but particularly in the middle of a housing crisis. I hope the Minister of State will consider that.

2:50 pm

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the four Deputies for raising these matters and welcome the opportunity to discuss the implementation of the national planning framework, NPF, on which we are now focused. The national plan was published earlier this year. It sets out the long-term strategy for the future development of Ireland as a whole, and the NPF implementation roadmap was published subsequently to address a number of practical implementation measures.

To prepare the NPF, the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, was commissioned to prepare population projections, based on demographic and econometric factors, for the years ahead to 2040. The ESRI conclusions are in line with the latest mid-range Central Statistics Office, CSO, population projections, also published this year. I am conscious that each local authority has other ways of predicting population projections as well, so there is time, during discussion on these regional plans, to agree on the population figures and how we can try to monitor them as best we can.

At a high-level national policy context, the NPF is to be followed by more detailed regional strategies that are being prepared by the three regional assemblies. In turn, local authority development plans are being prepared by the 31 local authorities. The aim is that the county plans would align with the regional plans, which align with the national plans also. There is a fair amount of scope within those plans to allow for proper planned development, which is what we are trying to achieve.

Notwithstanding the finalisation of the national planning framework, there were many calls from local authorities for individual county population projection data, which became necessary to address inaccurate, locally driven estimates derived from NPF regional figures and which were leading to commentary, which was well wide of the mark, about population allocations and caps. As was stressed in the House during the debate on the planning Bill, it is not about caps. That is not what we are trying to achieve. It is about proper development and reaching targets in a sustainable way in terms of building houses, jobs and all the other services. The caps have become the issue but we need to tease that out more to ensure we can get agreement on reaching level 2 because we want to have proper planning for what we are trying to achieve.

To provide clarity, my Department published the NPF implementation framework, including projections for individual counties, based on the ESRI work and the NPF. That was accompanied by a detailed circular, which outlined how the projections would be applied, taking account of transitional factors, and which was to enable the regional strategies to plan for the period to 2031 and for local authorities to plan to 2026.

The focus on population figures alone, however, risks missing the point about the purpose of planning and having a national planning strategy. The Deputies will be well aware, as will other Members in the House, of recent and historic trends which saw very high levels of housing developments in areas on the margins of Dublin, which did not always match the growth in local employment opportunities and the provision of essential amenities and services for fast-growing communities. That is something we discussed at the very early stage of the national planning framework. In counties like Wicklow and Kildare and my county of Meath that undertook a lot of housing, we have to make sure, under the national planning framework, that we join up the dots, that those houses are serviced properly, that they are provided with all the amenities they need, and that they have the jobs matched up as well. Without doubt, more houses will have to be built, but we also have to plan for everything else those counties did not get, and they did not get the proper funding to go with that. They got all the development and all the housing but they did not get the resources to match everything else up. The essential part of the regional plans will be how we join up those dots. Our areas of Wicklow, Meath and Kildare are singled out in the national planning framework for special attention in terms of how we can achieve that.

It is right that we are having this conversation but we should not get sidetracked on the population caps. They are not necessarily meant to be caps. They are predictions of where we are trying to go. While I understand the debate has become focused on that, we need to determine how we can get this teased out to get agreement on plans that give us what we need for our counties. Focusing on the populations is missing the point.

We need to move away from the old and failed models of just zone and build, which, while rewarding landowners and developers with high financial returns from speculative housing development, did not tackle the longer-term issues facing existing communities, often from previous suburban expansion, such as congested roads, pressure on schools, limited amenities and a general sense of housing being provided ahead of jobs and services, not the other way around. We need the balance. How do we get the building of housing at the right pace whereby we can match up the infrastructure? I am very conscious that some of these counties have invested in infrastructure that was probably needed ten years ago but is in place now. We have to make sure that is used as well. It is about having that conversation to decide how we can achieve that in a planned and co-ordinated way and not focus just on caps. It is about how we can get good planning, allowing for the population increases that will happen, but also trying to ensure there are population increases in the future in the other counties that did not see such increases.

Photo of Pat CaseyPat Casey (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for his answer. I was well aware what it would contain. Population, deaths, births, marriages and net immigration are the cohort in terms of how we calculate this. In Wicklow, however, the population grew where the infrastructure was located. That is the only place Wicklow allowed the population grow. The Minister of State is getting skewed figures for Wicklow. The Taoiseach stated less than four hours ago that there is a housing crisis. We have the infrastructure in Wicklow town and the Minister of State is saying that, with this roadmap, we cannot build a house until 2026. That does not make sense. What is the process for adopting the draft regional spatial and economic strategy? If it is not agreed at assembly level, what happens? I understand the implementation roadmap is not a statutory document. As he agreed to do in the House before we rose for the summer recess, will the Minister of State bring the regional plans before the House for debate by all the relevant Deputies?

Photo of Fiona O'LoughlinFiona O'Loughlin (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will be brief. I have another question for the Minister of State. What does he really think about this issue? I am not sure that what he said to us in his reply is what he really thinks about it. He will bear in mind that we did not get a copy of his reply, which are sometimes difficult to follow, but I have a major concern about his comment that our towns will not get the infrastructure they need if they are not in the metropolitan area of Dublin or in areas around Dublin, even though they are in County Kildare. Such infrastructure would include the second bridge in Newbridge. We might not even get the final delivery of the outer relief road for Athy because the Minister of State is saying that housing will follow the infrastructure. I agree that we need infrastructure, but we need that development for our towns as well.

Photo of Frank O'RourkeFrank O'Rourke (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The reality is that the caps will stop the building because if the Minister of State applies the figures being produced in the national planning framework to the local authorities' local area plans, that will cause a problem and it will stop building. Those figures are being reached now. In my constituency of Kildare North, the land that is zoned, with the commencement notices in, will reach the figures predicted in the national planning framework. We are delighted to have this conversation with the Minister of State in a meaningful way to bring about a practical solution because this does not make any sense. The infrastructure is in place. Whether it is wastewater, roads or bridges, it is happening, and it will be delivered, but if this was to be implemented properly in the national planning framework, we would have houses that do not match the infrastructure in place.

Photo of James LawlessJames Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am glad that both Ministers with responsibility for housing are in the Chamber. The chair of the Housing Agency, Dr. Conor Skehan, in terms of the national development plan, referred to the foolishness of these types of initiatives and of the overall plan. Let us be clear on what we are doing. In the middle of a housing crisis we are taking established areas in our commuter belt that are supplied with infrastructure and services, with serviced and zoned lands that are ready to go, and we are saying we should put a curtain over them and fold them up for 20 years. That is insanity. In the case of Naas, the 2031 caps have been met, with the sites under construction in 2018. The 2031 figures will be reached, possibly later this year. For the next 11 or 12 years, there will be no more housing in that commuter belt. That is insanity.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will give a quick reply, if that is in order.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I think the Deputies took the Minister of State's time but I will allow him the two minutes to reply.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will be brief. I apologise about the script. I have copies here.

Photo of James LawlessJames Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Just say you will change it all. That will be fine.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is my fault. I had copies with me but I forgot to arrange for them to be handed out.

In fairness to Deputy Casey, he asked at the end of the debate on the planning Bill if we would have a discussion on this matter. I am sure that can be facilitated either in the House or in committee because in our Department we like to do that and talk through what we are trying to achieve with these regional plans. I know the Deputy genuinely wants to ensure there is proper planning, and there is scope in the case of Wicklow, which is projected to have population growth of 15,000 by 2026, plus another 8,000 on top of that. The question is how we make sure that happens and go forward with the plan in a co-ordinated way thereafter. That is a fair increase in population. Likewise, the figure for Kildare is in excess of 31,000. That is a lot of people to accommodate, and I am not convinced this will happen as quickly as people believe it will. The regional plans are a means of talking that through and working that out.

To be clear to Deputy O'Loughlin, I have always said that we need proper planning. That is what the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, wants, and it is what I want. That is the purpose of the planning framework in terms of our planners. I have been consistent on that throughout my 20 year political career. We did not see good planning in Kildare, Meath, Wicklow and many other counties, and we are trying to achieve that. The obsession should not be with the targets. It should be with having proper planning and building more houses while at the same time providing the infrastructure, the necessary community services, jobs and so on.

4 o’clock

In the past, we had the houses but did not have the jobs to match them. That is why we got clogged up. It is not that we are trying to cap any particular area, but we must consider how to achieve that ambition in a proper, planned and co-ordinated way. That is what we are trying to achieve through the regional and county plans.

I accept that the debate has become focused on targets and caps. We need to move away from that and have a good discussion on good planning. We are happy to do that because there is agreement to be reached here. We also want to bring the councils on board with the regional plans. It is good planning and we are all part of that. We are discussing it in the House endlessly. We are going to have a two-hour debate now about housing failures. They are to do with poor planning and investment in the past but we are trying to get it right for the future. That is what we are trying to achieve through this as well.