Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

35. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if he will report on the agreement reached with Defence Forces representative organisations relating to the application of the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28050/18]

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Minister of State report on the agreement reached with the Defence Forces representative organisations on the application of the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 and make a statement on the matter? As he knows, there has been a protracted dispute and the State has sought to defend its position, in breach of the current legal framework. We need a full statement on why there was such a delay in upholding the law and vindicating the rights of people who work in the Defence Forces. Will he explain the current position?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I propose to take Questions Nos. 35 and 39 together.

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When two questions are grouped, the Deputy asking the first one gets 30 seconds to introduce the questions. The Deputy will have his time after the Minister of State completes his reply.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I previously informed the House that the Government decision dated 18 November 2016 approved the drafting of the heads of Bill to amend the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997. This will remove the blanket exclusion of An Garda Síochána and members of the Defence Forces from its scope. This will be subject to the application of the appropriate exclusions and derogations permitted by Directive 2003/88/EC. Work is under way in both the Department of Defence and the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection on this decision. The Department of Defence and the Defence Forces have undertaken significant work in examining the nature of the duties of the Defence Forces and how the working time directive can be applied to the members of the Defence Forces. I will amend Defence Forces regulations as required to facilitate this process.

I recently signed an amendment to Defence Force Regulation A.11 dealing with leave. This amendment increases to four working weeks from 19 days the amount of carry-over leave allowed to members of the Permanent Defence Force in circumstances where the member could not take annual leave due to being on certified sick leave, adoptive leave or maternity leave. My Department will engage through the conciliation and arbitration process with the Defence Forces representative associations to discuss the application of the provisions of the working time directive to the Defence Forces. However, this can be constrained if litigation is being pursued. Litigation taken by a member of the Permanent Defence Force in respect of the applicability of certain elements of the working time directive to the Defence Forces was settled recently in the High Court, having regard to the specific circumstances of that case. Further litigation relating to the working time directive as it relates to the Defence Forces is pending. For these reasons it would not be appropriate to comment further.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is unfortunate the Defence Forces representative organisations and workers in the Defence Forces were stonewalled for so long. I seek an update on the heads of the proposed Bill and ask when it will progress through the House. The Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, RACO, recently indicated that piecemeal amendments to Defence Forces regulations based on the outcome of High Court proceedings does not give confidence to its members. This is reflected in the position of the Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association, PDFORRA, as well. Why did it take so long for the Government to change its approach to this? Will the Minister of State confirm that it is now accepted by the Government that it will not rely on an exclusion clause contained in the legislation but it will bring members of the Defence Forces fully within the scope of the Act, subject to the application of derogations permitted by the working time directive?

There does not seem to be any clarity, apart from the changes made to regulations. When will legislation be brought through the House and when will the Government give certainty to members of the Defence Forces and their organisations that they will be part of an inclusive process around the implementation of the working time directive?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A decision by the European Court of Justice on 12 January 2006 in The Commission of the European Communities v. Kingdom of Spain clarified how the working time directive applies to non-civilian workers within the public service such as armed forces, military police and customs forces. A 2010 report followed from the European Commission dealing with the implementation of the working time directive, and it highlighted the same matters. The Department of Defence and military management continue to work together with a view to implementing the directive. Engagement has commenced with the representative associations and this will continue as appropriate.

As I stated in my reply, legislation is being worked on by my Department and the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection. This position was taken by the Government some time ago. I have spoken with the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection, Deputy Regina Doherty, about this and I hope the Deputy accepts that as with all legislation, we must ensure we have it right in the drafting phase.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The pace of legislation is very slow in this area. We have ongoing breaches of the working time directive and it was reported that 146,000 days of annual leave have been lost in the past five years among members of the Defence Forces. That is an enormous breach of this country's statutory process and the fact we are not seeking to rectify it very quickly does not give confidence to representative organisations. As they argue, amending regulations will not give confidence to them or their members on the upholding of the law. RACO has indicated its members lost 9.6 days of annual leave each and PDFORRA estimates that more than 6,000 members lost in the region of 37,000 days of annual leave in 2016 alone because the force was overstretched and members were constantly plugging gaps. We know, with the removal of the Western Brigade, how travel time has exacerbated problems in working life with those members.

The State is standing over a breach of the law in the form of the working time directive without giving any certainty, even today, about when this will be rectified. This is apart from restating the position of the Government in 2016 concerning the amendment of the Act. We cannot have this continuing at a pre-drafting stage, as it has been there for two years.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy has mentioned annual leave. I anticipate anything arising out of that will be a matter for discussion with the representative associations in the context of the conciliation and arbitration process. I reiterate that both military management and the Department of Defence are working to come to some conclusions on the issues raised by the Deputy. Engagement has started with the representative associations. We want the engagement to continue. If there is further litigation relating to the working time directive as it relates to the Defence Forces, it will delay the negotiations. If there is an issue, we should deal with it. I want to do that and I have instructed my officials on it. They have already met representatives of the associations and will continue to do so.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As I stated in reply to Deputy Chambers, I want to sort this out as soon as possible. I hope the Deputy will accept that the nature of the duties of military life in general bring demands that are typical of other security and emergency services like An Garda Síochána. I said as much in my original reply.

The directive allows for derogations and compensatory rest. As I indicated to Deputy Chambers, the Defence Forces and military management have undertaken significant work in examining the nature of the duties of the Defence Forces and how the Working Time directive can be applied to its members. On foot of that, I have directed my officials to sit down with both representative associations to ensure they are fully on board with the discussions. It is in the interests of all parties, including the representative associations, the Department and military management, to bring this to a conclusion as soon as possible. We have an issue and I want it dealt with and brought to a conclusion.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The decision to change the issues around the legislation was not on foot of the recent legal case. Action was well under way with the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection. This stems from a Government decision in 2016, if my memory serves me correctly. The Government has accepted that the blanket exclusion is not in keeping with the 2003 EU directive. Bringing forward this legislation is a priority.

I want to ensure that when I bring forward the legislation it will be watertight, it will deal with the issue and we will not have to revisit it. I want to ensure it is sorted out once and for all.

The legislation is being pursued. Work is being carried on and it involves the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection and my Department.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy will understand that I am prevented from discussing issues if litigation is ongoing. My hands are tied and he has to accept that. His party was in government for years and he will understand that as well as every other Member.