Dáil debates

Tuesday, 1 May 2018

Other Questions

Mother and Baby Homes Inquiries

5:35 pm

Photo of Denise MitchellDenise Mitchell (Dublin Bay North, Sinn Fein)
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27. To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs if survivors of a home (details supplied) will be facilitated in gaining access to redress in advance of the final report of the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes. [18725/18]

Photo of Denise MitchellDenise Mitchell (Dublin Bay North, Sinn Fein)
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Will survivors of the Bethany Home be facilitated in gaining access to redress ahead of the final report of the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes?

Photo of Katherine ZapponeKatherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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Bethany Home is one of the institutions included within the terms of reference of the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes. This particular institution was one of the first identified for inclusion when the scope of the investigation was being decided. Decisions on the issues to be investigated by the commission were informed by the serious concerns about the care and welfare of children in the institution.

As I have outlined in response to an earlier question, the final reports of the commission are expected within the next ten months. It is important to note the independent commission of investigation has to date made no findings about abuse or neglect in any of the homes within its terms of reference. In these circumstances, it is not possible for the Government to put in place a redress scheme for matters within the scope of this investigation prior to the commission submitting its findings and conclusions.

In the interim, the Government has agreed to consider the health and well-being needs of former residents. The establishment of a collaborative forum is a progressive approach to assist former residents to prioritise areas of concern for them and their families.

Given the issue of mother and baby homes has not been central to any previous inquiry, the commission must be given the opportunity to advance its investigation and to establish the facts of what happened in and around these institutions.

When the Ryan report was published in 2009 there were a number of calls for the residential institutions redress scheme to be extended to include additional institutions, including the Bethany Home. The then Government decided not to extend the scheme and it has been closed to new applicants since 2011. This decision has been reviewed on a number of occasions by previous Governments and most recently following the publication of the commission of investigation’s second interim report last year. The Government again concluded it was not possible to reopen the scheme.

The challenges for Government in considering such matters at an interim stage of a commission’s work were further highlighted in the special report of the Comptroller and Auditor General on the residential institutions redress scheme.

As I previously indicated, when the final reports of the commission are available, the Government will listen to and respond to the full account of the commission’s conclusions and the matters regarding the treatment of former residents.

Photo of Denise MitchellDenise Mitchell (Dublin Bay North, Sinn Fein)
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I cannot understand the attitude of the State to this small group of survivors. There are fewer than ten survivors. They are getting on in years and they fear the State is using this as a stall and hoping they will pass away. The second interim report by the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes clearly stated its view that the survivors of the Bethany Home had a strong case for redress and that both the Department of Education and Skills and the Department of Health should re-examine the decision to deny the Bethany Home survivors redress. We recently saw the decision to reverse access to redress for Magdalen laundry survivors. Why can it not be done for the Bethany Home survivors? I will say it straight to the Minister. These ten survivors will be very disappointed; they will feel let down.

Will the Minister be the one who puts it right?

5:45 pm

Photo of Katherine ZapponeKatherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I have a deep understanding of how upset and disappointed the survivors, especially of the Bethany Home institution, feel. I understand what the Deputy has described. I am aware of it and fully aware of what the commission of investigation stated in its second interim report and brought those arguments to the Government. That is why we took a long time to deliberate on the report, with a detailed analysis by officials of the Department of Children and Youth Affairs and other Departments of the rationale for some of the commission's statements. The consensus from a series of discussions which involved the Attorney General, the Ministers for Children and Youth Affairs, Public Expenditure and Reform and Education and Skills was that there would be insurmountable difficulties in reopening the redress scheme or scoping an alternative scheme, whether statutory or non-statutory. One of the primary reasons for this is that to date the commission has made no finding about abuse or neglect in the homes. That makes it extremely difficult for the Government to decide to offer redress. As a bridge to the final report, having understood and empathised with the concerns, particularly those expressed by the Bethany Home institution, I encouraged and achieved consensus with other Ministers that the Government could begin discussions with the former residents to examine meaningful targeted supports, particularly health and well-being supports, that could be provided for them prior to receiving the final reports of the commission and the Government's decisions which would follow them.

Photo of Denise MitchellDenise Mitchell (Dublin Bay North, Sinn Fein)
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I do not doubt that the Minister feels for the survivors, but they have been listening to that response for decades. Other Deputies and I believe that is not right as it is denying the survivors justice and redress. Why has the commission not made a finding? Is there something deliberate going on? The Minister has met the survivors; she knows them and knows that they have been campaigning tirelessly for decades.

Photo of Katherine ZapponeKatherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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The commission is independent. I have had meetings and conversations with it and it has insisted that it needs more time to speak to and hear from the people involved. Many more have come forward than initially anticipated. It needs time to consider their histories and conduct investigations before it can state what are the facts and its findings. All I can say is the commission has stated there is more work to be done and that it requires time. We have acceded to its request.