Dáil debates

Thursday, 22 February 2018

12:00 pm

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Sula dtosóimid, cuirim fáilte roimh scoláirí ó Ghairmscoil Mhic Diarmada, Árann Mhór, a rinne an turas fada anseo go dtí an Dáil ar cuireadh an Teachta Pearse Doherty agus, ar ndóigh, mé féin. Go mbaine siad sult as an turas.

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to ask the Minister if recent developments are a cause for concern regarding a hard border. I refer specifically to reports of the backstop commitments being taken out of the withdrawal agreement and put into a separate protocol. The phase I agreement signed in December provides for three layers of protection against North-South border controls. In December, the Taoiseach and Tánaiste described these as bullet-proof, rock solid and cast iron, and we all hope they are right.

The first layer of protection was a commitment that the UK economy would remain fully aligned to the EU economy but the UK Government has repeatedly stated it will not do this and its position on this issue has been hardening in recent weeks. The second layer of protection was that the UK Government would propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances on the island of Ireland but these have not been forthcoming. Indeed few outside the UK, or probably even the UK Government, believe that such unique solutions exist. In the last few days, the European Union's chief negotiator, Mr. Michel Barnier, stated:

It is important to tell the truth. A UK decision to leave the Single Market and to leave the customs union would make border checks unavoidable.

He made that statement, as the Minister knows, in regard to Ireland.

With the first two layers of protection probably gone, we come to the final layer, the so-called backstop. The Irish Government's view is that this backstop is unambiguous and comprehensive, ensuring there will be no North-South border controls now or at any stage in the future, but many believe that there is wiggle room within what was agreed in December. Indeed, the UK Government has a much narrower, more minimalist interpretation of what it signed in December. I have put Ireland's view of the backstop directly to three UK Ministers and all three refused to accept Ireland's view as to the comprehensive nature of the backstop.

As of last week, the EU was creating legal text to give legal power to this backstop in order to include it in the withdrawal agreement. In the last 48 hours however, Ms Jennifer Bray of The Times, Ireland edition, reported this is no longer the case and the legal text for the backstop will now be taken out of the withdrawal agreement and put in a separate protocol. Bloomberg reported that this protocol would sit alongside but outside the withdrawal agreement. While protocols can, of course, be legally enforceable, in an interview just this week a Conservative peer, when warning about the loss of rights that might happen in the UK, said the following; "The Government [he was referring to the UK Government] does not intend to take into English law the protocols of European Union laws". That interview took place in the last 48 hours.

Moving the backstop out of the withdrawal agreement and into a separate protocol feels like a political fudge. We all hope it is not but that is what it feels like. The backstop may be the only protection left against hard border controls on the island and it feels as though it has just been weakened. I therefore wish to ask the Minister the following questions. Is it true that the legal text for the backstop is being taken out of the withdrawal agreement to sit in a separate protocol? If that is true, why is it being done? Does the Government believe that this represents any weakening of the backstop and protections? Finally, with two of the three layers of protection gone and questions arising on the final one, is it fair to say that the December agreement could no longer be described as bullet-proof?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Donnelly for his questions and will begin by saying the December agreement is the agreement we expect to see honoured in full by the British Government. The Taoiseach had an opportunity to discuss Brexit with the British Prime Minister when they met in Belfast last week. On that occasion, they both reaffirmed the two Governments' shared commitments to the December agreement on Irish issues.

As Deputy Donnelly correctly outlined, work on developing the withdrawal agreement, including the relevant and important sections on the Irish issues, is very much ongoing. These provisions were welcomed, including by the Deputy, when they were achieved in December. They are very important to this country and must be delivered on in full. The Irish Government is continuing to work very closely with the EU task force on implementing the commitments that were made in December through the withdrawal agreement. This includes the fallback or default scenario. We expect this backstop option to be given full legal effect as part of the withdrawal agreement. At this juncture it is not appropriate for me to comment on exactly how these issues are reflected in the withdrawal agreement, a process that is still ongoing and is at a sensitive stage. However, we as a Government are in very regular contact with the task force, and I can tell the Deputy, the Dáil and more importantly the Irish people that we are fully satisfied with how these issues are being managed. We are fully satisfied that full legal effect will be given to the December agreement in any withdrawal agreement.

I will now specifically address the Deputy's two questions. Yes, we are fully satisfied that full legal effect will be given to the backstop agreement. This is not just an agreement between Ireland and Britain but an agreement between Britain and the EU. Through our very regular contact and ongoing engagement with the task force we are satisfied that the agreement must be honoured in full, and we expect that to be reflected in the withdrawal agreement.

On the second issue, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on the commentary of individual Members of the British Parliament or individual members of the British Government, because Ireland is not negotiating with Britain. Ireland is negotiating as part of the EU task force. The EU task force is negotiating with the British Government. We should take encouragement as citizens from the solidarity being shown to Ireland by EU member states. My colleagues the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs and indeed all members of Government continue to highlight the importance of Irish issues to EU colleagues. We are very encouraged by the fact that we have seen so much solidarity from other member states.

I appreciate that we are at a very sensitive stage in the negotiations, and I appreciate that a very sensitive and complex discussion is going on in the British Government, upon which it would not be appropriate for me, as a member of the Irish Government, to comment. However, the Irish Government is satisfied that full legal effect will be given in the withdrawal agreement and we do not see any question of that being in any way watered down, diluted or changed.

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for that response. We all hope he is right, because the backstop could be the last protection against border controls, which obviously nobody in this House wants to see, in common with most people on this island. I would like to ask a clarifying question and then move on to one or two other questions. When the Minister said that the backstop will be given legal effect in the withdrawal agreement, is that in answer to my question of whether it will be in a separate protocol? In other words, when he says it will be in the withdrawal agreement, is it therefore the case that it will not sit alongside the agreement in a separate protocol?

My second question regards sanctions and enforceability, because we all know what is likely to happen. There will be a legal text somewhere, be it in the protocol or the withdrawal agreement. Fianna Fáil's firm view is that it must be in the body of the main withdrawal agreement and not in a separate protocol. The UK is likely to engage in different tariffs, different regulatory issues, and put pressure on the Northern Border. It is likely that we will come to a stage where the EU rules that a certain measure cannot be introduced, because it would force it to put border controls around the Six Counties. The British government is likely to disagree, arguing that it has not imposed border controls so it has not infringed on anything. Obviously the UK will not sit within the legal jurisdiction of the EU. To what enforcement body is the Irish Government expecting to have recourse, and what types of sanctions will be available? Moreover, to repeat the clarification, is the Minister saying that the backstop will not be in a separate protocol?

12:10 pm

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. The bipartisan way in which we have approached Brexit is important. It is also important that, at this sensitive stage, our approach is maintained. We have shown that when we approach issues of national importance in a bipartisan manner, we can achieve great things for this country. It is important to maintain that in respect of all our commentary and engagement on Brexit. To that end, the Government remains entirely committed to engaging with the Opposition and to keeping the Deputy, as the Brexit spokesperson of his party, and other party representatives briefed.

The Government's position is that full legal effect should be part of the withdrawal agreement. At this sensitive juncture, it would be inappropriate for me to elaborate or to be more prescriptive regarding what is an ongoing negotiation between the task force and the British Government. The British Government is meeting on this today but we expect to see a full, legally enforceable agreement and all the protection that comes with that.

The Government has two jobs to do in the context of Brexit. The first is to get the best possible deal to minimise Brexit's effect on the people. Brexit is not a policy in this country but it is a huge challenge for us and we need to examine how we can deal with it. Second, we must put in place the domestic policies to Brexit-proof our economy and society. A number of measures have been introduced by Ministers in recent days. This process is at a sensitive and important stage but we expect to see full legal effect as part of the withdrawal agreement. We will certainly continue to engage in a bipartisan manner on this issue.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The debate that is currently taking place in respect of the sale by Permanent TSB of Project Glas, comprising loans relating to 14,000 family homes and 4,000 rental accommodation units, is false. I have been a strong advocate of the regulation of vulture funds. Indeed, the Minister, when he was Minister of State at the Department of Finance, dealt with the 2015 legislation proposed by Sinn Féin in the context of the regulation of vulture funds. I introduced legislation last year to regulate these funds but we need to be clear regarding what that would and would not do. If any party wants to support our legislation, fine. If a party wants to introduce its own legislation to bring about the desired end, we will support it without question.

We need to insert a little honesty into the debate. Regulation of vulture funds will not stop the threat of repossession. The only thing currently stopping the regulated banks from repossessing properties en masseis the potential impact on the long-term return on their investments and the effect on their reputations as companies operating in communities in which they are looking for business. That is not how vulture funds operate. They are only interested in short-term turnaround and quick profit. These funds, regardless of whether they are regulated, have no interest in reaching solutions with homeowners and no interest in restructured loans or interest only payments. There is no incentive for them to behave as members of society. They are not bound by the same sense of community. They are ruthless and, therefore, the sale of Permanent TSB loans to vulture funds puts 14,000 families and 4,000 renters in an extremely vulnerable position. There is no doubt that if it proceeds, there will be large scale repossessions, regulated or not.

The impression is now being given publicly that by simply regulating these funds, mortgage holders will have some magical protection that they do not currently have. That has made the situation even worse because it has created a pathway for banks which heretofore would not have sold to vulture funds to do so . The impression now is that if these funds are regulated, it is okay to sell to them. That is simply not the case. The Government can do something about this. Families and renters are watching these proceedings and hoping and praying that the Government will stand up to the vulture funds and stop this sale. If we are honest about this then stopping the sale is the only way to prevent mass repossessions. The Taoiseach said it would be illegal to direct the banks not to sell loans. That is fair enough but it is not illegal for the Minister for Finance or, indeed, the Government to inform the Permanent TSB of the position of its major shareholder, namely, the Government. Indeed, that is not even unprecedented. On previous occasions, the Minister for Finance brought in representatives from the banks in respect of the tracker mortgage scandal and high interest rates and outlined the Government's position. The Government is refusing to do that in the context of this matter.

Does the Minister accept that simply regulating vulture funds will not provide additional protections to the 14,000 mortgage holders and 4,000 renters if their loans are sold to such funds? If he does accept that, will the Government, and the Minister for Finance in particular, call in the banks to tell them what Sinn Féin has been asking them to do for the past number of years, namely, not to sell long-term products such as mortgages on family homes to vulture funds that only have a short-term interest?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I accept his bona fides on this. He has raised this issue for many years. As a Government, an Oireachtas and, indeed, a country, we have to work our way through two issues. The first of these is how to protect mortgage holders and the second is how to ensure that we have a functioning, stable banking system, not for the banks but for citizens who need access to mortgages and credit for their farms or small business or who need to put money on deposit and know they will get a decent interest rate. How do we work our way through those two issues? I am conscious that many mortgage holders are worried and concerned. Taking out a mortgage to buy a home is the biggest financial commitment a person will ever make and to think that there could be uncertainty or lack of assurance over that can only give rise to concern. Like the Deputy, the Government is eager to work with everybody in the House to find a way forward and to work out how we can provide maximum certainty, clarity and assurance to mortgage holders while we continue to minimise repossessions. Many Members talked about mass repossessions only being around the corner, but, thankfully, that never came to pass. They also said that mortgage arrears would continue to increase but these have fallen quarter on quarter for many years.

The Minister for Finance said yesterday - and it is the appropriate and prudent thing to do - that he has asked the Central Bank to provide further advice and guidance to him on the current legislation and regulation and indicate whether there is any need to improve or enhance that. He went further and said that he is willing to work with the Opposition. He had a constructive meeting yesterday with the Fianna Fáil spokesperson on finance and a Bill will be introduced by our colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Kevin "Boxer" Moran. The Deputy also has suggestions. There is time because these loans have not been sold. They have not gone on the market and the Minister for Finance has not yet been consulted. There will be time to engage on the matter in this House and there will be time for the Minister to be consulted by the bank.

We also have to be truthful with people, however. We have to acknowledge the fact that we have a bank which, despite the recovering economy and the fact that we are almost at full employment, has on its loan book one of the highest ratios of non-performing loans in the eurozone. We also have to acknowledge the fact that when Members interfered with or ignored regulatory advice regarding the banks in the past, the Irish people bore the heavy consequences and deep scars of that and they still do to this day. Mortgage arrears are falling and home repossessions have been kept to an absolute minimum. There is time to work our way through this and to achieve a balance between the two aims we need to achieve for our citizens, namely, to protect mortgage holders and provide them with certainty and assurance and grapple with ensuring that this bank, which employs more than 2,000 people and has more than €17 billion on deposit, is stable and complies with regulatory advice. We are, therefore, eager to engage. No one has a monopoly on good ideas and, certainly, no one has a monopoly on compassion or concern for mortgage holders. The Government will work with all parties to find a way forward. As the Minister for Finance said, there is time to do that.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister said that we have time. At my request, we have invited Permanent TSB representatives to appear before the finance committee on Tuesday next. Deputy Michael McGrath made a similar request. Permanent TSB representatives have told us that they have entered into confidentiality clauses with prospective buyers. The train has left the station. These are vulture funds and the problem is that the perception is that by simply regulating them, everything will be okay. It will not be okay because the code of conduct on mortgage arrears, which contains a suite of options, is completely voluntary in nature. Vulture funds do not offer those options. They do not do split mortgages, interest-only payments or arrears capitalisation. A total of 84% of the more than 120,000 restructures that have been done so far have not involved these funds. I want to see the regulation of vulture funds. I want them, and not the middleman, to be punished if they break the law. Primarily, I want to ensure that the 14,000 mortgage holders and 4,000 renters will not be thrown to the wolves.

If we are honest in this debate, and the Government and Fianna Fáil know and we in Sinn Féin know, it is not simply a question of the regulation of the vulture funds. If long-term products are sold to companies that have a three or five-year interest, it will only end one way, in repossessions. People will be evicted and there will be more homelessness. We cannot stand here as legislators and pretend that there is some type of magic solution. There is a solution: the Government owns 75% of the bank. The Minister should lift the phone and tell Jeremy Masding that the Government refuses to stand idly by while he is about to throw his customers to the wolves, just because the bank did not get its act in order over the past three years and work down those mortgages in the way it should have done.

12:20 pm

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I think Permanent TSB should go before an Oireachtas committee. It is time to see a little bit of humility from the banks, which the taxpayers have supported through very difficult times. They could do an awful lot worse than show a bit of humility and engage with the people's representatives. That should happen. It is a matter for the bank but that is my personal view.

Equally, however, Deputy Pearse Doherty needs to be truthful with people who are watching today, who are worried about their mortgages, who are working day and night to pay their mortgages. When he tells them "the train has left the station" that is simply false. The train has not left the station. The loans have not gone on the market.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The vendor has the confidentiality agreement------

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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There has been no decision on who to sell them to. The Minister for Finance has not been consulted. Deputy Pearse Doherty should get on board the train that is in the station now. It is the one that will work with the Government and the other Opposition parties to let us find a way through this that recognises we need to have stable, functioning banks for our citizens and to protect our homeowners. The Deputy should please not scare people.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The Government is scaring them by allowing this. That is a cheap shot.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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His is the party that-----

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Only the Government can do that through the regulation it enforces.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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If the Minister was strangled by a mortgage in distress he would be scared.

Photo of Maurice QuinlivanMaurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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The bailiffs are scaring them.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should not scare people because there are parties in this House that told people throughout the most difficult and darkest years of our history that their homes would be repossessed, that a second bailout would be needed, that we should go the way of Greece, that is, that we should send the troika home and that it should take its money. It seems some parties in this House might have changed their leader but not their policies.

Photo of Michael CollinsMichael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
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During discussions on the formation of a Government two years ago and on the programme for Government, many promises were made in the area of education, one being equal pay for teachers, which we have yet to see delivered but this is not the subject I will speak on today. On page 92, the programme for Government states "We are committed to delivering a school capital investment programme for extensions/refurbishments [to cater for] additional school places". It goes on to note that "Significant funding has been secured as part of the Capital Plan." This is another promise which I can prove is not being delivered on.

Two years later these words in the programme for Government mean nothing to dozens of families of children seeking to go to St. Brogan's College, Bandon. Over the past four months these parents have been living a nightmare as their children were put on a waiting list for entering the school in September 2018. St. Brogan's is a victim of its own success, in that the school's positive attitude and excellent staff have made it attractive to many families. More important, subjects are suited to certain students and in an era where parents and children sit down together and choose the best school for their child with the subjects that are on offer, St. Brogan's makes that choice somewhat easier for them.

All this has meant that the school must cater for more students than it has room for. The Department of Education and Skills may have sanctioned four additional classrooms but this is all too late for the many who are at the moment being left outside the door. One child, both of whose parents both attended St. Brogan's, and who lives only a few dozen feet from the school, across the road, cannot be taken in due to overcrowding. This child is heartbroken as he is the only child in his classroom who did not get a place. I spoke to another mother as late as last night who said that she is not sending her child to any other school as this is best suited for her child. Another father cannot understand why his son cannot get a place in the school he was educated in. These genuine stories are endless. I am dealing with many more families in the Bandon school catchment area with extremely difficult stories who want to send their children to this school but they will not be accepted as there is no more room. The school has written to the families to say that it cannot cater for the children but when I speak to these families they still hold out hope that their children will be accepted because they know, as I do, that this can be resolved simply.

In light of the additional classrooms not being in place on time for September, will the Department of Education and Skills work with the education and training board, ETB, and the school and immediately put in train works that will put temporary classrooms in place in St. Brogan's by September, thus catering for the many children left outside the door?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Michael Collins for raising this important matter for the people of Bandon and for the St. Brogan's College school community. The outline he has provided shows how important this is for many families who worry whether their child will have a place in the school of their choice, come September. I understand that St. Brogan's is a multidenominational, coeducational second level school with a very good reputation to which many families want to send their children. It is under the patronage of the Cork Education and Training Board.

I am pleased to be able to respond positively to Deputy Michael Collins's request for interim accommodation because, as he correctly says, the Department of Education and Skills approved permanent accommodation for this school in December. This will comprise four mainstream classrooms and two resource teaching rooms. Once the Department approves accommodation it is often devolved to the local patron to deliver it. The delivery of that project is the responsibility of Cork ETB. It has been given the green light and the funding by the Department of Education and Skills and this Government. I am very pleased that is the case.

We do need to consider what can be done in the interim. Pending the construction of the permanent accommodation we need to see whether some interim accommodation can be provided. I understand that the ETB in Cork has now submitted an application for interim temporary accommodation. The Department is responding very positively to this application and has confirmed to the ETB that the classroom accommodation will be approved. I am informed that the ETB will make arrangements to put the interim accommodation in place.

I hope this will come as good news to those worried about accessing a school place but as our population continues to grow and our economy recovers and we can invest more in our public services, this Government is building more schools and providing more school places than ever before in the history of the State. In the national development plan, our new capital plan, our vision for a new, brighter Ireland, Ireland 2040, announced last Friday in Sligo, we have enhanced and added further to that in the scale of our ambition, to make sure schools not just provide places but that they are provided with modern, fit-for-purpose facilities for physical education, PE, information and communication technology, ICT, and laboratories at second level. We have a very ambitious plan for school building projects across the country. As we consider what can be done in the interim in places such as Bandon, we will always respond positively to applications from patron bodies for temporary solutions and that is what we have done in this case. I hope that comes as good news to the people in St. Brogan's College.

Photo of Michael CollinsMichael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
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I thank the Minister. That is very positive news because this issue has been going on for quite some time. I am always a bit reluctant to raise local issues at Leader's Questions but I have been aware of this imminent crisis in Bandon for many months and held back on going public in the hope that we could resolve it behind the scenes. On 7 March last I first raised this in the Dáil with the then Taoiseach during questions on promised legislation. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Bruton, answered saying he would reply 15 days later. I have heard nothing from him despite making many trips to his office. That has left many parents bewildered and on tenterhooks. They are disappointed by a political system that looks at times as if it is hindering progress.

There is a company in west Cork that would supply and put in place classrooms. It does that all over the country. All it needs is approval but sadly this required approval by the Department, which has been dragging its feet. I want the Minister to make this a priority issue to be dealt with by the Department of Education and Skills. This day next week is 1 March. The clock is ticking. If planning is to be sought and temporary classrooms are to be put in place by September 2018, the Government should stand by its programme and the people of Bandon. If it does not the programme for Government will be a failure in their eyes.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I got to know the people of Bandon quite well when I was a Minister of State with responsibility for the Office of Public Works, OPW, and visited during the flooding. I am very pleased we have been able to deliver a flood relief scheme for the people of Bandon and will now deliver the temporary accommodation for St. Brogan's College.

Photo of Seán SherlockSeán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I thought that was for Deputy Canney to do.

12:30 pm

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We have already approved the building of the permanent accommodation. As the Deputy has said, it is important that people now get on with the appropriate phases of planning, tendering and procurement in order to deliver this as quickly as possible.

The Deputy made a reference to the Government's commitment to education. Let me be very clear that the Government's commitment in this regard is beyond question. During our time in office, we have prioritised investment in education, which is up by €1 billion on the past two years. Across the State, new schools are being constructed and existing buildings are being extended. We have a very ambitious programme to expand on that activity. In the interim, we are happy to provide temporary accommodation so that children can be facilitated in schools such as St. Brogan's college.

Photo of Séamus HealySéamus Healy (Tipperary, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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I wish to raise again a very serious matter that I and other Members have raised previously. It relates to the procedure and process for the assessment of needs of children with disabilities. The Department of Health and the HSE are breaching the law on a daily basis in this regard. The Minister is aware that, under the Disability Act 2005, the assessment of needs must begin no later than three months after the receipt of a completed application. I am regularly contacted by parents who find that there is a huge backlog in the assessment of needs for children with disabilities. I have one such case before me where the parent was told that the application was received on 1 June 2017. The parent was advised that the scheduled date of commencement was to be on or before 1 September 2017. The parent then received correspondence confirming that the application was received on 1 June and that the child's case was discussed at a forum meeting on 20 June 2017. The letter states, " ... [the case] was discussed at the Disability Services monthly administration meeting and his scheduled date for assessment is January 2019 (based on current resources)." This means that the assessment will be completed 18 months after the initial application. This correspondence cites increased referral rates and lack of resources as the reasons for this. The Minister must remember that an early assessment of needs for these children is a legal obligation on the HSE, on the Department of Health and on the Minister himself. The assessment of needs is to start within three months of application and is to be completed within three months of starting the assessment. The Minister is well aware that these children are diagnosed as early as possible in order to ensure that proper services are available to them.

I have received further correspondence from another parent which states:

As you are aware there is already a massive backlog of referrals for AON. The Assessments of Need are not being carried out in accordance with legislation and regulations under the Disability Act 2005. Assessments of need are supposed to be conducted in a consistent manner nationally and procedures are supposed to be in place to ensure continuity of the AON process, yet again this is not happening.

Will the Minister indicate when his Department and the HSE will stop breaching the law and ensure that the assessment of needs process relating to children with disabilities is completed in accordance with the Disability Act 2005?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Healy for raising this very important issue on the assessment of needs for children with disabilities. He is entirely correct; this is an area in which the State needs to do an awful lot more. The lost decade affected the ability to recruit to and invest in vital public services and this means that we have a backlog through which we need to work. We are committed to doing just that. Deputy Healy will have seen that we have significantly increased the number of speech and language therapists working in local areas. These therapists are an important part of assessment teams. We hired 80 more last year and, under the HSE service plan for this year, there will again be an increase in the level of resources for speech and language therapy.

Similarly in the area of psychology, which is an important in the context of any team that supports children with disabilities within our communities, we are going to recruit 135 psychology assistants. This will help with that aspect of assessments. The HSE is also currently developing its operational plan for each community health care organisation. This plan will outline the level of service the organisations intend to be able to provide this year to people with disabilities. Given that we have significantly increased the health budget to more than €15 billion, I expect that the people about whom the Deputy speaks will see this reflected in the operational plans for their areas.

I am concerned about the lack of consistency regarding the geographical spread of resources. The Deputy has touched upon this matter. Autism, for example, is a disability issue that concerns many parents who come to my constituency clinic. I am sure Deputy Healy sees such parents at his clinic also. I asked the HSE to carry out an analysis of autism services assessment teams throughout the State in order to map where we have a good service and where we do not. This is so that the resources can be put in place. I have just received the report this week and I will now work my way through it, with the ultimate purpose to have an evidence base in respect of the location of resources. If there are certain areas with particular backlogs and waiting lists for assessment of needs that are above and beyond the national norm, then we need to target resources in to those areas. I have discussed this issue with the HSE and I am aware that it is a key priority for the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath. With this and the extra respite service we will see in community health care organisations, GP visit cards for carers and medical cards for all children in receipt of domiciliary care allowance, I hope we will make a real improvement.

I accept that this is an area in which we must do a great deal more. I will be very happy to speak with Deputy Healy directly about his community health care organisation experience and I will certainly follow up on the details of any cases he may wish to provide. We are investing a lot more in this area and we are recruiting more staff. Staff is the key component in these teams. If we are to drive down the waiting times for the assessment of needs, we need to have more health professionals in our community health care teams. This is a priority for the Government. There will be more recruitment this year and that will build on the additional recruitment last year.

Photo of Séamus HealySéamus Healy (Tipperary, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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I thank the Minister. While I welcome his reply, it is very similar to one I received six months ago from the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath. The situation has certainly not improved. If anything, it has disimproved. Children in Tipperary are routinely obliged to wait up to 18 months and or two years for these assessments. I put it to the Minister that this is in breach of the law. This is not a regulation or a target. The Department and the HSE are in breach of the law. More importantly, they are denying young children with a disability an early diagnosis so that proper and specific services can be provided to them. I ask the Minister to follow up on this matter and to ensure that the HSE is adhering to the law rather than breaching it. I put the Minister on notice that I will raise this issue regularly in the future. The situation is simply unacceptable and unsustainable. The Minister must progress this matter in order to ensure that children are dealt with properly and speedily.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Healy and I accept the challenge. The Deputy is correct in that we have to get on top of this matter and deal with it. We are committed to doing that. We have shown this commitment with the significant increases we have already provided to the health service this year and to disability services specifically. These increases build on the increase in 2017. I am aware that this is a major priority for my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath. We are building up services county by county to make sure there are appropriate teams in place and to reduce waiting times.

The Deputy also makes an important point about being able to access services at an early age. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Bruton, is looking at how children can access services in schools either while waiting for diagnoses or without specific diagnoses. The idea that a parent would have to wait for a diagnosis before the child could access supports such as resource hours or a special needs assistant in school is not a satisfactory situation. We will make progress on this between the reforms being taken in the Department of Education and Skills and the extra resources being put in place by the Minister of State. I very much look forward to our ongoing engagement.