Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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49. To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources his views on whether the recent announcement of a joint ESB and Bord na Móna solar energy enterprise represents a large enough investment in solar energy in view of the scale of the climate crisis and the poor history the State has in embracing solar power; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21826/17]

John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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73. To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources his policy regarding the provision of national solar power guidelines further to the recent launch of a proposed large-scale solar farm by ESB and Bord na Móna in County Roscommon; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21891/17]

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Following on from what we have been talking about, renewables, the Minister recently announced that ESB and Bord na Móna are to engage in a joint solar energy project. Could he clarify exactly what is the investment from both companies and what the scale of the project will be? I have heard different figures and am not sure whether I am correct in saying they are investing €5 million each. Is the State giving any subsidy to this? I would love to be enthusiastic about this but I have strong misgivings about what I am reading.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 49 and 73 together.

To clarify, my understanding is that it is €5 million between the two companies and the State is not putting money into the project. If there are any supplementary questions, I will deal with them in a minute.

As Minister with responsibility for energy and climate action, I am fully aware of the major challenge facing Ireland to live up to the ambition of the Paris Agreement on climate change. I have just concluded the public consultation on the draft national mitigation plan, which will continue the process of transitioning Ireland to a low-carbon, climate-resilient and environmentally sustainable economy by 2050. The national mitigation plan will be submitted to Government for approval in June.

Against this backdrop, the recent commercial decision between Bord na Móna and the ESB to develop a solar photovoltaic, PV, project is a welcome announcement. It is increasingly recognised that solar PV has the potential to contribute to meeting Ireland's renewable energy and climate change objectives.

Ireland has made considerable progress in the decarbonisation of our electricity sector in recent years, with over 25% of our electricity coming from renewable sources in 2016. This progress, while welcome, will need to accelerate in pace in the coming years. To support this continuing progress, my Department is currently working on developing a new renewable electricity support scheme. This involves examining the introduction of supports for a range of renewable energy technologies, including solar PV - both rooftop and ground-mounted. To date, only around 6 MW of solar PV has been installed in Ireland, almost entirely on rooftops.

Solar undoubtedly has a key role to play in the transition to a low-carbon energy future and presents significant opportunities for citizens and the economy as a whole. The Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland recently published a report, entitled Ireland's Solar Value Chain Opportunity, showing that the cost of solar PV modules has fallen by 80% since 2009 and is set to continue to fall in future years. The reduction in solar PV prices will lead to solar becoming more cost-effective and thus likely to take a greater share of new renewable energy developments in the future. This drop in cost will be reflected in the design of any new support scheme.

The recent agreement to build a solar PV project builds on the existing partnership between Bord na Móna and the ESB in onshore wind.

Calls for the introduction of solar planning guidelines are matters for the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I will ask the Minister about the figures for subsidies for renewables in general because the Commission for Communications Regulation, ComReg, in 2014 stated that 10% of the public service obligation, PSO, levy we all pay on our electricity bills goes to renewables and that the vast bulk actually goes to fossil fuel sources, not renewables. I would argue that this is a real tragedy and I am sceptical, therefore, about the project. It is brilliant there is a move towards this but I am disappointed to hear it is just €5 million between the two companies. I do not believe the Minister has a commitment to solar energy. In an address last November, apparently, he all but ruled out the adoption of solar energy, warning that the technology could quadruple the levy paid by consumers on their ESB bills.

5 o’clock

However, the Minister cited figures showing that solar energy costs are decreasing and sounded more enthusiastic than previously about its potential in terms of reducing our greenhouse gas emissions. Globally, we are failing to support the science of solar energy. It is estimated that in 2014 the global bill for fossil fuels stood at €490 billion, while subsidies to aid the application of renewable energies stood at €112 billion. This lack of commitment globally is reflected in the lack of urgency the Government has shown to this source of renewable energy.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I apologise to the Deputy as I thought I had figures on the PSO with me but I do not have them to hand. I will have my officials revert to her later with them.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Does the Minister accept the figure I gave?

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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No.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Is it far off the mark?

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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The PSO subsidy for fossil fuels, which is for peat, is declining. There is no subsidy in place for Edenderry and the two remaining subsidies, for Lanesboro and Shannonbridge, will expire in 2019. The PSO for renewable energies has been ramping up and accounts for the largest share. The proportion provided to renewables will reach between 80% and 90% by 2019. I will get the figures for the Deputy because I am speaking from memory.

On the comments I made last September, some people clearly need to visit an audiologist.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I read about the Minister's comments.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I am not questioning what the Deputy said. However, an agenda is being spun on this issue. I stated that the applications submitted to provide solar power would provide power far in excess of the country's energy needs. Farmers are signing contracts with solar power companies and there is panic among members of the farming community about the scale involved. Farmers are concerned that it will be similar to what occurred in the area of wind power and many are worried about what they have signed up for.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Minister should conclude. We are out of time.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I will conclude by citing a number of figures. The applications to provide solar power would deliver 3.9 GW of solar power to the grid. National demand for electricity in summer stands at 3.6 GW, while total national demand in winter is 4.5 GW. This means applications to provide solar energy almost match total energy demand, which is not realistic.

John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the discussion on an issue in which I have considerable interest. The programme for Government is extremely light in terms of its narrative on solar power. The Minister hit the nail on the head when he indicated that the output of proposed solar power projects would meet national energy demand. The problem in this area was identified by An Bord Pleanála when, in a ruling refusing a planning application in the south east, it pointed out that it did so in the absence of national guidelines. It stated, "There is a lack of guidance at national, regional and local level in relation to the appropriate location, scale and distribution of future proposals for solar power." Moreover, it was not satisfied that the proposed development "would not be premature pending the adoption of national, regional or local guidance or strategy for solar power." If we do not organise and adopt a strategy and proper planning process for solar power, the chaotic scenario described by the Minister will arise.

The Minister indicated that prices for solar power are declining. While it is understandable that companies would like to enter the solar power market, the sector is crying out for a Government strategy and direct guidelines. Solar power cannot provide a solution to all our demands for renewable energy but it has a role to play. It is up to the Government to provide guidelines to ensure we have a sustainable programme.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Solar power has a role to play. I had the piece on solar power written into the programme for Government. Anyone who claims I am not positively disposed towards this form of energy is wrong. Nevertheless, I will not have a scenario in which farmers are tied into contracts which bind them to solar power companies for five years when, in real terms, the chances of the project getting off the ground are small. The current applications for grid connection would provide 3.9 GW of solar power. This means that on a summer's day when average demand for electricity is 3.6 GW, we could shut down every power generation plant and wind turbine in the country and still have excess electricity on the grid. As this is not a realistic scenario, I set out to bring an element of realism to the discussion. I will address the issue of grid access in a moment.

John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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While I do not disagree with the figures provided by the Minister on applications to the grid, the issue is that planning permission has not been secured for many of them. As such, it is not the case that these projects could all commence tomorrow and connect to the grid.

The specific point I am raising is the need to introduce guidelines to manage the development of solar power. An Bord Pleanála stated that we need local and national guidelines and a strategy as otherwise the scenario presented by the Minister will arise in respect of the large number of applications for grid connection. The Government must play a proactive role.

As the Minister indicated when he referred to the application made by the ESB and Bord na Móna, the price of solar modules has fallen by 80% since 2009. This is the driving force behind growth in the sector, which we must manage. Solar power is a renewable source of energy which has a role to play but Government action is required. This is the link in the chain in which I want the Minister to become involved.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Two issues arise. The matter raised by the Deputy is one for the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government who deals with the planning process.

John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister could speak to his colleague given the need for joined-up thinking.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I spoke to the Minister on this matter prior to the comments and decisions by An Bord Pleanála. While the ultimate decision in this matter is one for the regulator, I have publicly expressed my concerns about current access to the grid through gate access where a secondary market has been established in which connections are regarded as assets and traded as such. I do not want this to happen in future and I have expressed my views on the matter to the regulator. I hope the committee will also engage with the regulator on the issue as the committee is the authority to which the regulator is answerable.