Dáil debates
Thursday, 13 April 2017
Topical Issue Debate
Syrian Conflict
5:30 pm
Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I thank the Minister for being here to take the issue and the Ceann Comhairle for allowing it. If Bashar al-Assad deliberately used chemical weapons on his own people, that is horrific. He should certainly be held to account. He has done bad things previously but the refusal to look for evidence and to have an independent inquiry is worrying. If the response to the assumption that there was a chemical weapon attack is a military strike, then we have a higher level of responsibility to ensure that it took place. The site should be visited, the evidence should be found and taken to the UN Security Council and, if necessary, to the Hague to initiate criminal proceedings.
In Iraq back in 2003, there was no proof of any of the claims of the weapons of mass destruction. In Libya, there was no proof of the claims that Muammar Gaddafi was going to slaughter many people but this assumption was used as a pretext to bomb the living daylights out of the country. The same people who cheerled those disastrous wars are cheerleading this aggression now.
Saudi Arabia approves of the airstrikes. This is because Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, the US and the UK have been helping to fund these so-called moderate groups who end up being cousins to ISIS, al-Qaeda and al-Nusra. These groups are trying to take over the government of Syria which, like it or not, is a pluralistic society. The US, the UK, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey are promoting and funding this extremist jihadi movement. They want a regime change.
This particular US attack was not the most deadly attack in Syria that the US staged last week. Many of the people calling for the US to intervene in Syria don’t seem to realise that it is already at war there. In Syria and in Iraq, over recent weeks and months, US air attacks have hit mosques, schools and apartment complexes and have killed many hundreds of civilians to the extent that those who monitor this, such as the Airwars group, have estimated that the US has now surpassed Russia in its killing of civilians by bombing raids.
As investigative journalist Mr. Allan Nairn claims, the murder of civilians is simply calculated out of existence as people forget that numbers are not valueless. Mr. Nairn said the following:
Within the U.S. system, those killings of civilians are excused, because the U.S. was not targeting those civilians per se. They just happened to be next to the targets, so they died in the explosion. So the U.S. system says it’s OK .... They calculate how many civilians they predict will die by accident. So, in a certain sense, it’s an accident. But in another sense, if you were applying domestic criminal law standards, it wouldn’t be considered an accident. They could be charged with criminally negligent homicide. They could [even] be charged with various kinds of manslaughter.
The death toll from a 17 March US airstrike in the Iraqi city of Mosul has risen to more than 300 civilians, including many children. While speaking to Mr. Jeremy Scahill on "Intercepted" this week, the former Ohio Democratic Congressman, Mr. Dennis Kucinich, laid out precisely why we should not fall into line with the hawks and warmongers and sleepwalk to the tune of the arms industry. In October 2013, then-President Obama sent Mr. John Kerry to meet Russia's Foreign Minister to come to an agreement to end the fighting in Syria. There were reports that the Pentagon and the CIA were opposed to any agreement with Russia. They did not want to share any intelligence with them. An agreement had been made between the Russians and Mr. Kerry but less than a week later, there was a US bombing attack on a Syrian army base. Approximately 100 Syrian military soldiers were killed and that ended the agreement. Effectively, the Pentagon and the CIA overruled the President of the United States and the Secretary of State and decided they were not going to tolerate any kind of agreement with Russia. They bombed a barracks in a country the Russians had been invited into to protect. This was a calculated effort to drive a wedge between the US and Russia so that the permanent war machine can just keep going on and on. There is no money in peace.
I plead with the Irish Government to take a neutral position. I would not defend for a second what Assad does or what the Russians do, but I wish to God everybody would stop bombing any part of Syria.
Charles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to address this House on the situation in Syria once again. It is beyond doubt the greatest challenge facing the international community at present. The situation continues to be a matter of gravest concern and efforts to resolve it reflect not only the challenges internal to Syria, but wider regional and global dynamics. I was horrified by the news of last week’s chemical attack in which men, women and children were indiscriminately murdered. Just yesterday, a UN Security Council resolution on investigating this incident was vetoed by Russia. This is a further clear example of the challenges faced in trying to move towards a resolution of this terrible conflict.
The attack at Khan Shaykhun underlines the need for full accountability for war crimes and crimes against humanity in Syria. Those responsible for crimes on all sides must be held accountable. We have consistently called for accountability and the referral of the situation in Syria to the International Criminal Court. We will continue to work to ensure accountability is achieved.
I welcome the establishment of the international, impartial and independent mechanism on Syria. Established by the UN General Assembly last December, it will assist in the investigation and prosecution of persons responsible for the most serious crimes under international law that have been committed in the Syria. It is a small step but it is a step in the right direction. I am considering how best Ireland can support this mechanism.
I had the opportunity to discuss the situation in Syria with EU Foreign Ministers at the Foreign Affairs Council in Luxembourg last week. My EU colleagues joined me in condemning the continued widespread abuses of human rights and violations of international humanitarian law by all parties, especially the Syrian regime. We also agreed the new EU strategy for Syria. This sets out the EU’s clear position that there can be no EU support for reconstruction in Syria until a comprehensive, genuine and inclusive political transition owned by the Syrian people is firmly under way. The Council also agreed to support the resilience of the Syrian population and Syrian society through the provision of education and job creation, as well as support for local civilian governance structures in opposition-held areas, including by working with the Syrian interim government, and working to avoid the collapse of the state administration in Syria.
Ireland will continue to make contributions to the humanitarian effort in Syria. Since 2012, Ireland has contributed €76.5 million to the crisis. Last week, the Minister of State, Deputy McHugh, attended the conference on supporting the future of Syria and the region in Brussels and we announced an additional pledge of €25 million for this year of 2017.
This is Irish Aid’s largest response to a single crisis in recent years, indicative of the level of priority we attach to this issue. In providing support to Syria, it is important not to forget the impact of the conflict on the wider region, in particular on neighbouring Jordan and Lebanon, and Irish Aid support is also disbursed in those countries.
I want to underline Ireland’s support for the UN-led Geneva peace process and commend the efforts of UN Special Envoy for Syria, Staffan de Mistura. The Geneva process is the only way of achieving an inclusive, sustainable and peaceful resolution to the crisis in Syria. I assure Members of this House that Ireland remains wholly committed to efforts to achieving this outcome. I have no doubt we will be back in this House discussing the crisis in Syria, both the war and its humanitarian impact, on other occasions in the future. This is the sad reality of the situation in Syria as we speak. However, we must also continue to have some hope that progress can be made, even if this progress is sometimes slow and intermittent. For my part, I assure the House that I will ensure that Ireland’s voice is heard where it is most effective - in Brussels, New York and Geneva - urging progress toward peace and political transition, followed by the rebuilding of lives and livelihoods and ultimately accountability for crimes that have been committed against the people of Syria.
5:40 pm
Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I am in favour of holding accountable all people who commit crimes, and I am talking about people on both sides. The Minister says the EU is working towards a genuine and inclusive political transition but I get the impression that "political transition" also refers to regime change. They went into Iraq to implement regime change and look at the mayhem they have left behind them. As bad as Saddam was, things were not as bad as they are now. As bad as Gaddafi, was, things were not as bad under him as they are now. The whole region has been destroyed in so many ways by military intervention. It is nonsense and it does not work. There is not going to be a military solution in Syria. It is possible to get everybody talking but those in Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Qatar get arms from the British and the Americans, and they have been giving them to extreme groups that have totally escalated what has happened in Syria. It is illogical.
I understand there is a very pro-US position in the EU and that there is also one here, and the evidence of that is that we are still allowing Shannon to be used as a US military air base. For the life of me, I do not understand how we can still do it. Surely the Minister will have to admit that, as bad as things were with Obama, it has become more dangerous. Watching Trump talking about eating chocolate cake when the news came through that the air strikes took place is frightening. Only recently, Trump made it plain to the military and the CIA that they could make their own decisions on the ground as to where and when to bomb and use drones. Under Obama, as bad as it was, the decisions were run through the White House bureaucracy and it involved lawyers. With Trump, the attitude is, "Don't worry about the limits or the lawyers. If you feel the need to bomb somewhere, go for it". We are talking about people who have a vested interest in promoting the arms industry. We have to disassociate ourselves from this military activity. We have to take a neutral position. I do not expect the Irish Government to support Assad or the Russians but I wish to God we were not supporting the US military effort either.
Charles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Wallace and I disagree on a wide range of issues in regard to foreign policy and, indeed, domestic policy but there are two issues here with which I fully agree with him. The first is that there is not, in my view, any military solution to the situation in Syria and there must be a political and diplomatic solution. Second, I share Deputy Wallace's horror at the continuing conflict in Syria and its impact on the population of Syria and the wider population of region.
The last time I saw anything that looked like real progress involving broadly-based international support was in late 2015 and early 2016, at the time of the adoption of UN Security Council Resolution 2254. I believe that resolution is still important in that it set out a roadmap for peace, and while it has not yet been possible to follow it, that resolution of the United Nations still remains the guide for our collective efforts.
International political dynamics have changed considerably since the resolution was adopted over a year ago and we are seeing further shifts in recent weeks. The International Syria Support Group, which is co-chaired by the US and Russia, had earlier offered some cause for optimism. It remains to be seen if there is a real prospect of that track being renewed. However, the immediate goal of the international community must be the renewal of the Geneva process. On the ground we need to see a full cessation of hostilities and the lifting of the various sieges in the cities throughout Syria. In the meantime, Ireland will continue to play a very strong role in the sustainability of countrywide humanitarian access in order that humanitarian relief from the various countries, including Ireland, can be received and distributed to those people who are most in need.
I do not see a military solution. I see a political solution and a diplomatic solution, and I see that coming through the Geneva process.