Dáil debates

Thursday, 26 January 2017

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed) - Other Questions

Public Sector Pay

1:55 pm

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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5. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if, in his deliberations on bringing forward pay restoration to April 2017, he considered dealing with the outstanding issue of pay levels for new entrants to the public sector; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3417/17]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am returning to the issue of equal pay for equal work. As the Minister knows, members of the Association of Secondary Teachers in Ireland are balloting this month. Quite rightly, the association's central executive is recommending the rejection of the Government's proposals. The Government is continuing to refuse to commit to the simple principle of equal pay for equal work for which workers have been fighting since the 19th century. There used to be a pay gap on gender grounds. We now consider it completely unacceptable for women to be paid less than men for doing the same job. It somehow seems acceptable to this Government that young workers should be paid less for doing the exact same job in the exact same school on the basis that they are younger and started work after 2012. What does the Minister intend to do about it?

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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On 29 November last, I announced a two-phase approach to securing the future of collective pay agreements. It was intended that the first phase would address anomalies arising from the recent Labour Court recommendations in respect of An Garda Síochána and the second phase would negotiate a successor to the Lansdowne Road agreement. My priorities for the first phase were to secure the continued implementation of the Lansdowne Road agreement, to maintain the productivity, industrial peace and stability provided by that agreement and to ensure issues of mutual concern to the parties are addressed in a fair and reasonable way and, above all, in a manner that safeguards existing Government expenditure commitments and the broader fiscal position. Under the settlement that was reached last week, and in acknowledgement of the anomaly that has arisen, the Government in its capacity as the public service employer agreed to an increase in annualised salaries of €1,000 for the period from Aprilto August of this year for those on salaries up to €65,000, those who are parties to the Lansdowne Road agreement and those who do not stand to benefit from the Labour Court recommendations issued in respect of the Garda associations.

The issue of addressing the difference in incremental salary scales between public servants who have entered public service employment since 2011 and those who entered before that date was addressed with the relevant union interests under the provisions of the Lansdowne Road agreement. In addition, flexibility provided for within the Lansdowne Road agreement has allowed the Government more recently to address particular sectoral issues such as the restoration of supervision and substitution payments, new entrant payments in the education sector and the restoration of rent allowances to new entrant firefighters. This shows the value of a collective approach. The Deputy will be aware that the Public Service Pay Commission intends to examine evidence on recruitment and retention of identifiable groups and to compare public service remuneration to prevailing private sector or market rates. It will include its findings in its report, which is to be published in the second quarter of this year and will form the basis of the second phase of our negotiations.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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With respect, the Minister's waffle is not an answer to my question about equal pay for equal work. Under the new proposals, a person who started teaching after 2011 will earn €6,000 less in his or her first year of teaching than somebody doing the same job who happened to come in before 2011. That figure will be €5,800 in the second and third years of teaching and €6,000 in the fourth year. This pattern will continue until the ninth year, when the pay gap will be €8,500. Service officers and ushers in the Oireachtas are affected by this. Those who came in after 2012 get 10% less than those who came in previously. People who are working in this building are being paid €2,500 less for doing exactly the same job. Does the Minister think that is acceptable? I do not. Will he commit to equal pay for equal work? Does the Minister agree it is ironic that the actions of teachers and gardaí who took industrial action and refused to accept the Lansdowne Road agreement have forced him to give an extra €1,000 to those inside the agreement, but he will not give this payment to those who actually fought to achieve it? Essentially, he is putting the Sword of Damocles over their heads.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy does his case a disservice with his characterisation of my answer to Question No. 5. I responded to the various matters he raised in the question and I explained the process the Government is using as it seeks to deal with all of these matters. Unlike the Deputy, I am responsible for deciding how to allocate taxpayers' funds between competing demands. It is simply not possible to deal with this matter in isolation from all the areas in which improved public services are needed, not to mention the other pay issues that are being raised by the trade union movement and employees. I would respond to the Deputy's reference to the Sword of Damocles by expressing my belief that it is absolutely appropriate for the benefits of the agreements we reach with representatives of employees to be confined to those employees.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The message the Government is sending when it issues this threat is "it is our way or the highway". I remind the House that no trade unionist ever had a ballot on the system of pay apartheid that was unilaterally imposed by the Government to deny young people equal pay for equal work. Given that new-entrant nurses are receiving 10% less pay than existing nurses, is the Minister surprised that the Government is unable to recruit nurses at a time when everybody acknowledges more nurses are needed? When that is considered alongside the mess in the health service, it is no wonder they do not want to work here. This problem is going to get worse as the need for public sector recruitment increases. Even more workers will join the teachers in being paid less when they come in. How are they supposed to afford a roof over their heads? The Minister is simply not addressing the issue of equality about which I asked him. The Government could make Apple pay its taxes to pay for this. That would be an alternative way of boosting the budget.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I am in favour of fairness. I want to ensure we have the right level of public services for those who need them. I want us to be in a position to build the homes that Deputy Boyd Barrett quite correctly referenced the need for, to invest in hospitals and universities and to deliver the transport infrastructure mentioned by Deputy Cullinane earlier. The challenge is that the same funding which would have to be used to deliver all of this is the same funding we have to use to pay public service workers. Any single change in the State's pay and pension bill of approximately €15 billion would have substantial consequences for our ability to improve our public services and pay every public service worker fairly, regardless of the point in time at which they entered the public service. It would be great if Deputy Boyd Barrett were to refer in his analysis of this issue to the fact that we concluded our negotiations with the INTO and the TUI with an agreement that seeks to deal with the issue of teachers' pay in a phased manner across 2017 and 2018.

Question No. 6 replied to with Written Answers