David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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2. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if he is committed to equal work for equal pay for post-2011 entrants within the public sector; and if he will provide a roadmap for equal work for equal pay, in addition to the fair and timely restoration of the FEMPI legislation cuts for those public sector workers earning under €65,000. [36600/16]

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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The question seeks to have the Minister state formally and publicly that he is committed to equal work for equal pay for post-2011 entrants within the public sector and to provide a roadmap for equal work for equal pay, in addition to the fair and timely reversal of the FEMPI legislation cuts for those public sector workers earning under €65,000.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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The 10% reductions in starting pay for certain new entrants were introduced by the then Government in January 2011 as part of the national recovery plan in order to reduce the public service pay bill. Terms and conditions of employment for public servants are also set by reference to legislation, including the FEMPI Acts, and through negotiation and agreement under collective agreements such as the Haddington Road and Lansdowne Road agreements.

The issue of addressing the difference in incremental salary scales between those public servants who entered public service employment since 2011 and those who entered before that date was addressed with the relevant union interests under the provisions of the Haddington Road agreement. Any further consideration of remuneration adjustment for any group of public servants, including issues relating to more recently recruited public servants, falls to be examined within the provisions of the Lansdowne Road agreement. The agreement is flexible enough to address particular sectoral issues such as the restoration of supervision and substitution payments and new entrant payments in the education sector and the restoration of rent allowances for new entrant firefighters and members of An Garda Síochána.

On the unwinding of FEMPI legislation measures for those earning under €65,000, the Deputy will be aware, I hope, that the application of the FEMPI legislaiton pay reductions was extremely progressive, with pay reductions ranging from 5% at lower pay levels to 29% at higher pay levels. Again, the measures applied under the phased unwinding of the FEMPI legislation reductions through the Lansdowne Road agreemtn were also progressive. It provided the greatest benefit at the fastest pace for lower paid public servants. For example, it exclusively targeted those earning under €65,000 for increases in pay, ranging from €1,500 for those earning €20,000 to €1,000 for those earning €60,000. It utilised increases in the exemption threshold of the pension related deduction to maximise the benefit to low-paid workers. All statutory deductions, other than tax, are made before the pension related deduction is taken from salary; therefore, a reduction of an amount in pension related deduction will benefit the employee to that amount, less PAYE. For a person on the 20% tax rate, a €100 reduction in pension related deduction gives a benefit of €80.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister has stated the FEMPI legislation has been a success. Certainly, it has not been successful for the vast majority of low

and middle income public servants. That is the crux of my point. The simple fact is that the Government has no plans whatsoever to address the issues beyond the diverse sectoral agreements with certain unions already within the Lansdowne Road agreement. There are certainly no commitments from it to allow for pay equality across the public sector. Given the rise in the level of industrial action to date which we see across the State, it is not tenable to commence the process only in two years, in September 2018, at the expiry of the Lansdowne Road agreement.

Separate from this is the issue of pay restoration. The core of my question is about equality. This has been put to the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and now the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. Will he commit to equal pay for equal work for post-2011 entrants?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I take seriously what unions state about matters. Let me quote a union leader who spoke about this matter:

Teachers are feeling they are being taken for granted, that their goodwill is being exploited and that in the face of ever increasing workloads they are holding together a system which is underfunded and under-resourced. None of this is being recognised.

This was said by the INTO's Northern secretary, Mr. Gerry Murphy, while speaking about the payment of teachers under the Northern Ireland Executive. In case the Deputy is not aware of the figures, the entrance salary for teachers in Northern Ireland is €25,000. For teachers here it is €30,000. In the light of all this and the issues teachers in Northern Ireland are facing, under a portfolio for which the Deputy's party recently had responsibility, how can he come into the House and challenge me on the progress that has been made on issues such as this?

He is entitled to do so, but how can he do so with credibility? One of his party's spokespersons urged "all parties to get back around the table in an effort to reach a resolution to the issue of teachers' pay". If that is the language that Sinn Féin is using elsewhere, would it not be appropriate to use the same here?

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I will not even engage in the red herring of comparisons with a different state. The Minister does not care about the people of the Six Counties, yet he uses them as a false argument to try to tarnish Sinn Féin. It is impossible to compare like with like in that context. For the Minister to simplify the issue says a great deal about him.

The Minister has failed to answer my question, which has been put repeatedly to the Tánaiste, the Taoiseach and him. It goes to the core of equality. The Minister cannot grasp this simple issue. As he mentioned teachers, I will mention nurses, gardaí and the fact that public servants have experienced large pay cuts. There is an unjust two-tiered system for post-2011 entrants. My daughter graduated as a primary school teacher and was expected to work alongside colleagues who may have graduated the year before. She has had to emigrate as a result of the inequality that the Government has built into the system.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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That shows the difference in approach to politics between the Deputy and me. I legitimately respond with facts about what is happening elsewhere-----

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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False arguments. The Minister is not comparing like with like.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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-----but the Deputy's best retort is a mixture of interruptions and allegations that I do not care.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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That is not the point. Sign up to equality.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Sinn Féin does not have a monopoly of caring about issues of equality and fairness. The Deputy does not have a monopoly of caring about issues-----

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Stop running down the clock and answer the question. Will the Minister sign-----

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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One speaker, Deputy.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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-----that people within public services have to face and of the desire to do so fairly. Of course, I care about fairness. Of course, I want to deliver equality-----

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Commit to equality, then.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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-----but I also have a duty to deal with other issues, such as how to fund and provide the kind of housing that Sinn Féin constantly and correctly highlights in the Chamber and how to put in place the kind of funding that we need to support our hospitals and primary care centres. These are also issues of equality and fairness. All of it must be funded out of the money that is available to the State.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister has failed to sign up to the basic principle of equality.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I can make these points and put that argument to Sinn Féin and the Deputy while recognising a presumption of good faith on his behalf. It is just a pity that Sinn Féin cannot do the same for others.