Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach if there are understandings rather than actual agreements with any particular Independent Deputies. [27013/16]

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There are no understandings of the nature suggested by the Deputy with any particular Independent Deputies. The programme for a partnership Government sets out the agreement between the parties and Deputies who are participating in or supporting the Government. There was one issue that occurred in the meantime beyond what is already published. That was a letter which issued in respect of a matter in Waterford to the Minister of State, Deputy Halligan. That letter was also published. There are no other understandings with any Deputy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate the Taoiseach's reply. With regard to the Minister of State, Deputy Halligan, and the letter issued to him, he clearly believes that was a clear breach of the understanding he had arrived at with the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government, Deputy Coveney, and others at the time. The Minister of State, Deputy Halligan, is clear that the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, and the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government, Deputy Coveney, told him that this was a done deal, that the catheterization laboratory would be provided on a 24/7 basis and that it would happen.

I can almost hear the words from the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, that the review will be just a formality. I can almost hear him saying gently to the Minister of State, Deputy John Halligan, not to worry, it is a formality and it will be all looked after. The Minister of State genuinely believes he was taken to the cleaners on this and misled. The Minister, Deputy Coveney, told the Minister of State, who was at the time just a Deputy, not to worry and that if he did not do it, it was going to do it. Therefore, Fine Gael said it was going to build the second cath lab. That relates to the quality of the understanding the Taoiseach arrived at and the agreement with the Minister of State, Deputy Halligan. The latter has been very clear that he believes the agreement was breached. He feels he was told in good faith that there would be a cath lab in Waterford. He has now been told that will not happen.

The Taoiseach, in fairness, denied there was any understanding with Independent Deputy Michael Lowry. He will recall the announcement of the modular building for South Tipperary General Hospital by Deputy Michael Lowry in July. As the Taoiseach will have noted, there was a big headline at the time: "Bitter words fly between Tipperary TDs over Lowry announcement on South Tipp General Hospital". The Deputy announced there were plans for a 40-patient modular patient hotel to ease overcrowding at the facility, along with 22 new jobs. The Taoiseach said there was no deal, written or otherwise. A newspaper article from 6 July states: "Mr Lowry's support for the minority Government has been the subject of much debate and the matter was the subject of a debate in the Dáil yesterday." That was the last time this was dealt with. In the aftermath, Deputy Lowry clarified his position by saying he never had a deal with the Government but, rather, an understanding with Fine Gael, and that he was very happy with it. The newspaper article states:

I never said there was a deal, but I do have an understanding with the Government. I made representations in relation to the crisis at Clonmel hospital and I was very happy with the responses of the minister and the HSE.

At that stage, it seemed that Deputy Lowry was getting far more out of it than the Minister of State, Deputy Halligan. Deputy Lowry stated that he did not have a deal but he had an understanding with the Government and he was happy with that understanding. He is very clear he has an understanding with Fine Gael. Elsewhere, he is quoted as having said his support for the Government would pay dividends for his constituency. Is he telling the truth? Can the Taoiseach enlighten the Dáil on what the understanding with Deputy Lowry might be, particularly in terms of South Tipperary General Hospital, Clonmel?

The Taoiseach is correct in saying that, in the confidence and supply arrangement, there was a written commitment that all deals would be published. In fairness, all the commitments made with the Independent Alliance are in the programme. Some are now arguing those commitments have not been fulfilled, as in the case in Waterford. Nonetheless, Deputy Lowry is adamant and sticking to the line that he has an understanding with Fine Gael and expects it to yield benefits in his constituency. Could the Taoiseach give his views on what the Deputy is saying? Even in the aftermath of the Taoiseach's comments to the Dáil, Deputy Lowry has said all this. The Taoiseach has robustly denied it in the Dáil but the Deputy is saying that while it is not a written deal, it is an understanding. That suggests an informal agreement with Deputy Lowry that may be to his advantage electorally and politically in the constituency. Could the Taoiseach comment on that? Is it the case or is the Deputy just fibbing?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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On the first matter the Deputy mentioned, the position is very clear. The letter was quite clear in respect of an independent analysis of the requirement and the needs of the people of the south east in so far as a second cath lab in Waterford was concerned. It was agreed that a person of stature and independence would examine that. A consultant, Dr. Herity, did an outstanding job based on the clarity of his finding. Within that finding, his view was that there should be extra hours approved for use of the cath lab, the premises should be improved, extra staff should be appointed and further money should be spent on it.

The Minister is quite happy to do that.

In respect of the reference to shifting some facilities out of Waterford, the Minister was not agreeable to that. The Government has responded very clearly to the findings of the independent consultant and will do what he has outlined. If he had outlined something else, the Government would have complied with that. There was a clinical analysis by a professional, independent person, and I respect that completely.

In so far as the second matter is concerned, I am not sure whether the Minister for Health met the Deputy who Deputy Martin mentioned, namely, Deputy Lowry, and a number of doctors about Clonmel hospital. I think he did that out of normal courtesy for any Deputy and provided an opportunity to meet with medical personnel.

These days, if one passes somebody in a corridor, one has had a meeting. Even a courteous meeting can become an understanding or an intention. Let me confirm for Deputy Martin that he heard one side of the situation. Deputy Lowry has been an Independent Deputy in the House for a number of years. I appreciate that he has supported the Government in terms of his record. There are no understandings with any Deputy on the part of Fine Gael or the Government. I do not have any information to the contrary. Any Deputy from the Fianna Fáil Party or any other party can meet with the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, for instance-----

Finian McGrath (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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I meet colleagues all the time.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----about projects in wherever and have a good discussion. Does that become an understanding, intention or something following which a decision is made?

In so far as anything that has been published, that is why I referred to the letter in respect of the Minister of State, Deputy Halligan. If a meeting between a Minister, Deputy and a number of doctors becomes an understanding, I cannot deal with all of these matters in so far as they concern any Deputy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. When we refer to Deputy Lowry and he talks about understandings, we know what he is talking about - it is an inside track, in terms of getting things done. The Taoiseach said clearly that Deputy Lowry does not have an inside track and, essentially, without the Taoiseach actually saying it, it is being suggested that Deputy Lowry is fibbing and not telling it as it is. He does not have the kind of deal or understanding that he has let on he has with the Government. That is essentially what the Taoiseach is saying. He is dismissing his assertion that he has such an understanding.

When Deputy Lowry talks about an understanding with the Fine Gael Party and Ministers, he is not talking about walking along a corridor. Let us not be naive, we all know full well what he means by those words. In the aftermath of the last Dáil discussions, he was emphatic when he said he did not have a deal but rather an understanding with the Government and is happy with that. That is not passing along a corridor and the Taoiseach should not dismiss it as such.

I refer to the comments of the Taoiseach on the Minister of State, Deputy Halligan, and the deal on the catheterization labaratory, on which he feels he was shortchanged. It is worth pointing out that I understand why he feels he might have been shortchanged. We need to remember that clinicians were involved in the configuration report. They recommended splitting the service, whereby Kilkenny and Wexford would go to Dublin and Waterford would be attached to Cork. That was an unprecedented proposal, because Waterford was always the centrepiece of the south east. In the configuration report there was an expectation that there would be a second catheterization labaratory, but the reality is that what was recommended by clinicians in the report was not implemented. The commitments made to Waterford in the context of the configurational report were not fulfilled.

I accept that the Minister of State, Deputy Halligan, did a deal in good faith, but he has a case. In the heat of the discussions there is no doubt he was promised this would happen and that the review would be just a formality. If one read the configuration report, one would find that the likelihood was that the recommendations would be followed through. I accept the advice of different clinicians and specialties in terms of the commentary, but nonetheless there is a sense that Waterford was shortchanged by the configurations and that the commitments made in the configuration report were not fulfilled.

Clinicians outside, not in, Waterford have said this to me. They believe that part of the issue is the degree to which the service in Waterford was not given the level of support it was promised in the original configuration report and recommendations which led to the break up of the south-east model and the attachment of services in Wexford and Kilkenny to St. James's Hospital and services in Waterford to services in Cork. That is why the Minister of State with responsibility for training and skills, Deputy John Halligan, was of the view that Fine Gael had broken his deal and that the Ministers, Deputies Simon Coveney and Michael Noonan, had not fulfilled their side of the agreement reached with him.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I was reflecting on what the Taoiseach had said during the general election that he would not be dependent on support from any Independent. I am also reminded of what Deputy Micheál Martin said that his main objective in the general election was to make sure Deputy Enda Kenny would not be returned as Taoiseach and that Fine Gael would be put out of office. In the spirit of Deputy Micheál Martin's question, will the Taoiseach explain the understandings and agreements reached between the Government and Fianna Fáil, as a result of which we have seen these huge U-turns? The Government has done an U-turn on NAMA, bin charges, zero-hour contracts, Irish Water and the Moore Street project. Perhaps the Taoiseach might indicate, in the spirit of transparency, what other understandings to which he has come with Fianna Fáil.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will the Taoiseach set out the situation in the Government on votes on social issues among members of the Cabinet? I am referencing the position on the eighth amendment to the Constitution which, as the Taoiseach knows, is a source of great concern to people throughout the State. Has he devised a new doctrine or a change in the concept of collective Cabinet responsibility? Has it been agreed in principle that on social issues and perhaps economic issues independent members of the Government may, in fact, make a choice on how whether they will vote with or against the Government? It is a fundamental principle of our democracy in the context of new politics. The Constitution implies that there is collective Cabinet responsibility. If the Taoiseach has developed a different understanding of the principle of collective Cabinet responsibility to allow Ministers a free vote, for example, in upcoming votes in the Dáil on social issues, especially the eighth amendment to the Constitution, does this imply that there will be this freedom in the course of the debate on the budget, social welfare legislation and economic issues?

Seán Haughey (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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I am not sure if there is an understanding or agreement, but there is a commitment in the programme for Government to provide a new emergency department in Beaumont Hospital. The Minister of State with responsibility for disability issues, Deputy Finian McGrath, was particularly active on the issue during the negotiations on A Programme for a Partnership Government. I want to know if that commitment is on track because Beaumont Hospital is 30 years old, there has been no investment in it and there is a crisis every winter in its emergency department, at the height of which there could be 50 patients on trolleys at any one time. A new emergency department is badly needed. The programme for Government states planning will take place towards the end of 2016 with a view to providing funding next year. I hope the Minister of State, working closely with Deputies in Dublin Bay North, will ensure the facility is provided once and for all.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I remind the Taoiseach that we are out of time; will he, therefore, please give a brief synopsis?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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On the issue raised by Deputy Micheál Martin, the South Tipperary General Hospital management team identified the most immediate priority actions to support the emergency department, including providing for pilot or temporary on-site acute bed capacity through a patient hotel solution, subject to the procurement process; the planning, development and implementation of the frail elderly pathway and the extension of the provision of community intervention team services.

I assume that the meeting that took place between the Minister and the doctors was about this matter. Obviously, it was subject to the procurement process and planning.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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If management was doing it, why was there only one Deputy with the Minister?

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are badly over time.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not know. I cannot answer that question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Taoiseach understand the point I am making? If management had already agreed to it, what was the Deputy doing there with the Minister?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have advised Ministers that when they meet representatives from constituencies, they should meet the whole lot, not discriminate and treat them in a fair way.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Not too many have observed that advice in the past five years.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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To reply to Deputy Gerry Adams's question, the confidence and supply agreement with Fianna Fáil has been published. In essence, it is to facilitate the passage of three budgets and have a review at the end of 2018 as part of a five-year programme. It is like some of the documents in which the Deputy's party might have been involved during the years.

To respond to Deputy Joan Burton's question, the principle of collective Cabinet responsibility has not and will not be changed. It has always applied and applies now. When the matter is referred back to the Dáil from the citizen assembly and recommendations are made-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It will not apply.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----everybody will vote in accordance with his or her conscience.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Therefore, conscience has now been divorced from the principle of collective Cabinet responsibility?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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No. I have already made this clear-----

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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That is a major constitutional development.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The principle of collective Cabinet responsibility has not changed.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It happened in the 1970s.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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On the question of having a free vote in the Dáil on a social matter of such divisiveness as the eight amendment and what it might mean, everybody will have the opportunity to vote in accordance with his or her own conscience. That is the way it should be.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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What is Government policy then?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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On the matter of Beaumont Hospital, the project is included in the programme for Government. We will commence the design of a new emergency department later this year, with a view to funding for construction being provided as part of the 2017 capital plan review. I know that there is pressure is on Beaumont Hospital on a cyclical basis. We will see to it that this objective in the programme for Government is followed through.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Therefore, Finian has got a better deal than John Halligan.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Tá breis is trí nóiméad sa bhreis caite ar an gceist seo. Táimid ag bogadh ar aghaidh.