Dáil debates
Wednesday, 20 July 2016
Other Questions
Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership
1:45 pm
Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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36. To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation her views on the impact of the regulatory co-operation chapter of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership in view of the concerns raised by a number of groups regarding the potential privileging of corporate interests in decision making that will affect public policy; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [22538/16]
Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I raised issues concerning the TTIP many times with the Minister's predecessor but we are not getting much more satisfaction than we were at the start. My question relates to concerns that many people have about the potential privileging of corporate interests in decision making that will affect public policy. The potential absence of the precautionary principle is also very worrying, as exposed in the leak by Greenpeace recently.
Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I am aware that Deputy Wallace asked about the precautionary principle in another question that will be taken later.
The proposed EU-US free trade agreement is one of a number of new-style trade agreements that the EU is negotiating, covering not only covers tariffs, services and investment but also regulatory coherence and co-operation. Such an agreement would be the world’s largest bilateral trade and investment deal, and a successful conclusion is expected to benefit Ireland more than any other EU member state. Ireland’s enterprises are particularly well placed to take up opportunities to trade more easily with the US. An independent study commissioned by my Department and carried out by Copenhagen Economics in 2013 suggests that the benefits to Ireland will be proportionally greater than in the EU as a whole. These findings are backed up in a comprehensive independent report contracted by the European Commission, carried out by Ecorys and published on 13 May 2016. Ireland strongly supports the negotiations and is working to ensure that our interests are fully reflected in the texts of the negotiations.
Regulatory compatibility and co-operation is not about reducing standards or deregulation. Rather, it is about facilitating increased business and trade opportunities between Europe and America and will make the trading landscape easier and more predictable. That is particularly important for SMEs.
Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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The report to which the Minister referred is based on an economic model that assumes nothing can go wrong and everything will go well. There is no real evidence whatsoever that Ireland will benefit from the TTIP. Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan raised the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA, with Canada, which seems to be an attempt to get a foot in the door before the TTIP is agreed. CETA includes an investor-state dispute settlement mechanism, ISDS, which would allow corporations to bypass the normal court process, which is a privilege members of the public could not possibly get. If the agreements go through they will give corporations an incredible advantage in getting their way in any state in which they operate.
John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Is Question No. 36 grouped with other questions?
Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I do not think so, but Deputy Wallace is pulling questions together.
Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I am sorry, but my question refers to concerns about the potential privileging of corporate interests in decision making that will affect public policy. That is exactly what I am referring to.
Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Yes, I know, and then the Deputy mentioned CETA and also the precautionary principle. I am finding it hard, but I will do my best.
John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister is doing very well.
Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I note the Deputy's concerns about the precautionary principle in the EU treaties. However, the treaties are foundation documents for all European decision making so TTIP negotiators must be cognisant of those in all negotiations. Any final agreement will be subject to scrutiny by every individual government across the European Union. Each of the 28 member states will be able to raise objections to any matters they consider might breach principles of the EU treaties such as the precautionary principle. Added to that, if the democratically elected Members of the European Parliament feel that any proposed agreement undermines that clause, they may fail to ratify it.
Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I am not throwing stones at the Minister. She is new in the job and I do not expect her to be-----
John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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There will be no throwing stones here.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Only metaphorical ones.
John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Exactly.
Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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When Greenpeace released the document in April there was a lot of denial about its contents. I went to the reading room in the Department and compared the released document with a similar document in the agreement. I was not allowed to bring anything out of the reading room but I was able to make comparisons. I discovered that the Greenpeace document was 100% accurate, which is even more worrying. The truth of the matter is that climate change, the environment, workers' rights and consumer protection will be undermined by the agreement. The Minister said we would be able to change the agreement by voting on it, but the Council of Ministers will make the decision and the agreement can be ratified even without each member state's parliament voting for it. The agreement would automatically be introduced for three years and much damage would be done even if we chose to vote against it in this country. The situation is very worrying. I do not blame the Minister but we must take the issue much more seriously. We should be very concerned about what is coming down the tracks.
Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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A total of eight persons have visited the reading room: three officials and five Deputies. The EU-US free trade negotiations are the most open and transparent trade negotiations to date. Reports relating to each round of discussions with all information on the EU position in the negotiations are published on the European Commission's website. Unlike the EU, the US does not publish its negotiating texts and the US has separate protocols for reading its documentation, effectively limiting access to Members of Congress. Special reading rooms have been created in capitals around Europe to allow equivalent access to European and national parliamentarians to review the consolidated EU-US versions of the negotiating texts. I have written to the Ceann Comhairle and I have invited Deputies to come and view the documents. Members are very welcome to do so. More need to come and see the documents, as Deputy Wallace has done.
John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Niall Collins has signalled that he wishes to ask a supplementary question.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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On a point of order, could I just clarify something?
John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Sure, yes.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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Last week when Other Questions were being taken there was a grouping of similar questions.
John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Yes. I asked the Minister if that were the case.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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Is that being done in the case of this Department? It is very confusing for Members, as we do not know whether to come to the Chamber or not. I have tabled a question similar to the ones asked by Deputy Mick Wallace and Deputy Maurice Quinlivan.
John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I see that. It is No. 62. The questions have not been grouped. That is the basis on which I am proceeding.
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, if questions are grouped, is that communicated to Deputies in advance?
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Anti-Austerity Alliance)
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No.
James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Do we find out on the day or how does it manifest?
John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am told the Minister normally announces the grouping at the beginning of her first reply to a question. Today's questions were not grouped. I call Deputy Niall Collins to ask a further supplementary question on Question No. 36.
Niall Collins (Limerick County, Fianna Fail)
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In relation to the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership-----
Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry, but what question is the Deputy asking?
Niall Collins (Limerick County, Fianna Fail)
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It is a supplementary question to No. 36. The Minister said she had written to the Ceann Comhairle and to all Deputies inviting them to take up her offer of a briefing from her Department and to visit the reading room. I did that and I found it interesting, to say the least.
Given the lack of public awareness about the exercise which is being undertaken and its potential, does the Minister not think that it would be a good idea to do a public awareness roadshow around the country and visit the regions? The Minister's Department divides up the country into various regions. If we look at the Action Plan for Jobs, which the Minister's predecessor launched and she is continuing, it is broken down by region. The Minister visits the various regions and focuses on and emphasises each one as she visits. Given the enormity of TTIP and the potential and consequences on both sides, as it is a big debate that is out there, we should all try to make a value judgment call on it. We need to have more public consultation. That requires visits to the regions as part of a public awareness consultation.
1:55 pm
Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I say very strongly that the trade agreement is not finalised and is not near that at all. I take on board what the Deputy has said. I think it is important that Deputies know what is going on. I am really disappointed in the number of people, after receiving the invitation, who have come over to the Department to view what is in the reading room and go through the two and a half lever arch file documents. I am disappointed with that, though I take on board the Deputy's comments. As I said, the trade agreement is not finalised nor near to it.