Dáil debates

Tuesday, 26 January 2016

3:45 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Our health service is under enormous pressure. Health care staff, nurses and doctors are literally at the end of their tether trying to keep things together and patients are suffering. Irrespective of what hospital one visits throughout the country - I was in Drogheda last week - one gets a clear illustration of this. Waiting lists for routine operations are spiralling out of control and have been for some years now. Waiting times are lengthening all the time and targets are being breached. Despite the fact the Government changed the goalposts to make such times and targets more manageable, they are getting worse. The Government undermined the National Treatment Purchase Fund which had been working very effectively to deal with elective surgeries and routine operations before it came into office.

Our emergency departments simply cannot cope. Talking to people in and outside of the hospital in Drogheda where I was last week, this was the No. 1 topic of conversation. Waiting times for minor operations and CT scans are now the worst in Europe and the same is true of waiting times for emergency departments. There are 517 patients on trolleys in emergency departments today and operations are being cancelled in these hospitals as a result. Whether it is the Mater hospital, Beaumont Hospital or Cork University Hospital, they are under enormous pressure.

Most damning of all is that the Taoiseach and the Minister deliberately left the hospitals of this country short of at least €100 million in the health service plan. This is acknowledged by the HSE on page 90 of the 2016 service plan where it states there is a funding shortfall of €100 million. It had been €150 million but some cash management shaved off €50 million on a once-off basis, leaving €100 million of a shortfall. It uses the chilling phrase that one of the options which it can consider includes "aligning activity levels to the funding". That means cuts in capacity in our acute hospitals for 2016. It means fewer operations and more overcrowding in emergency departments, fewer discharges and so on. It is incredible that the Taoiseach and the Minister would have approved of this plan, knowing in advance it has left the hospitals short of €100 million. Why did the Taoiseach deliberately approve this plan knowing that, at a minimum, it leaves our hospitals short of €100 million for 2016?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Martin for his question. He actually makes the case as to why it is critical that we are able to continue to grow the economy to deal with all these issues.

A total of €13.6 billion has been allocated for health this year. I have no intention of returning to a situation where endless money was thrown at a health system without reform and effective spend for the taxpayer and particularly for patients and securing the best outcome for patients.

3:55 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is going to leave them on trolleys.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have said on many occasions that the position is not satisfactory in a number of areas, where elderly people are waiting on trolleys for a very long time or where incidents arise in overcrowded hospitals that should not arise. That is all the more reason that the impact of the spend that is in place should be examined and how capacity can be increased in an effective way to deal with the patients. While capacity is up by 5% this year, so too is the number of visits and calls to accident and emergency units.

The Deputy is aware that 1,000 beds were taken out of the system. There are 750 more nurses and 300 more consultants and doctors employed since 2011. There is an increase of €800 million in the spend for this year. I was talking to the Minister this morning. An increasing number of patients, both adults and children, are presenting with flu-like symptoms. The Health Protection Surveillance Centre has reported that influenza-like illness rates for the second week of 2016 are equivalent to the rates reported in mid-February last year and that influenza is expected to circulate for a number of weeks. There are 250,000 unused vaccines available at present. People aged over 65 years and people who are vulnerable or who work in the health service should avail of the opportunity to get the flu jab - the Deputy may shake his head if he thinks it is funny - and attend their local pharmacist or GP where it will be made available to them. There has been an increase of over 10% in the level of attendance by people over 65 years of age.

I also pointed out to the Deputy on the previous occasion he raised this matter that in December 2014, the Minister for Health convened the emergency department task force to ensure that where overcrowding began to occur in accident and emergency units, it would be addressed in a proper, integrated and system-wide way by the hospital groups dealing with the issue in the various hospitals. In April 2015, the HSE published the emergency department task force action plan with a range of actions that were time defined, such as getting the best out of the space available in hospitals and community capacity and developing internal extra capability and processes to deal with this. In addition, a sum of €170 million was allocated for that.

As Deputy Martin knows, without effective reform one can always say there is never enough money. He knows the process that applies here. When a budget is struck and agreed by the Cabinet, the HSE submits its programme to the Minister of the day. The Minister has 21 days to respond and either accepts it or makes amendments to it. Naturally, the HSE, in addressing the scale of the challenges, will always seek the maximum amount it can get. As I said, €13.6 billion has been allocated for this year, which is €800 million more than last year. Capacity is up by 5% but the increased number of attendances obviously creates pressures in accident and emergency units. This goes back to the point that to deal with these matters in a long-term way, the community and primary care system must be looked at as well as the capacity in hospitals, including the employment of consultants, doctors, nurses and other medical personnel down the line, and one must have the resources to be able to meet that.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach has great difficulty answering the question he was asked. Why did the Cabinet approve a plan that leaves acute hospitals short by €100 million? Pages 90 and 91 of the health service plan clearly lay out the position. Page 90 outlines the impact of demographics on hospitals and how demand for acute hospital services continues to increase. Demographic changes will see the population increase by 1% in 2016, an increase of 32,000 people. The over-65 age group is expected to increase by 3.1% or 19,400 people. This is setting the scene for its revelation that it is €100 million short. It is a €100 million shortfall before the plan even starts. The plan goes on to outline the implications of that on page 91, that is, providing inpatient services and inpatient activity at 2015 levels. This is at the start of 2016. It means real trouble ahead for hospitals in 2016. There will be no Supplementary Estimates, in accordance with EU rules. The Government had to allocate €666 million at the end of last year to cover a funding shortfall.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question please, Deputy.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There were three fraudulent budgets for health over three years. The Government has now deliberately approved a budget that is €100 million short for acute hospitals. That will mean more overcrowding in hospitals, longer waiting times and higher waiting lists in 2016. The Taoiseach is not facing up to the reality that he is consistently underfunding health. He cannot come to the House and talk about the need for reform, because he promised reform for five years under the name of universal health insurance and ditched it at the 11th hour. The five-point plan has become a three-step plan because the Dutch model has been dropped unceremoniously from the Taoiseach's platform. He is afraid even to talk about health in public. All people will hear about for the next while is the strength of the economy.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is way over time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is an onus to tell the truth to patients and the people. The HSE has laid out the position quite candidly in the health service plan. That was presented to the Taoiseach. Why did he decide to approve of it knowing it leaves the hospitals short of €100 million? Will he give a precise and specific answer? Why did he decide to leave the HSE €100 million short at the start of the year knowing it will cause incredible problems for 2016?

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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He is not so good at the sums.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin is well aware of the position from his experience in that Department and having served as a member of a Government. In this case, an extra €800 million was allocated by the Government to the HSE and the Department of Health, and responsibility resides in the Department of Health for that Vote. The HSE, in having more effective management, would be expected to deal with that. Obviously, improvements have been made with the money. The hospital groups were established, which is an important move towards having trusts which will examine the groups of hospitals and what they can specialise in for the future. There are 46 more primary care centres than existed in 2011. They are valuable with regard to people not being required to go to hospital for minor injuries. Families have free GP access for people over 70 years and children under six years of age. The next step is to extend that to children under 12 years. Since 2011, there are 300 additional consultants and since January last year there are 750 more nurses and 250 non-consultant hospital doctors, NCHDs. Mental health funding has been tripled and a suicide prevention strategy has been published to reduce the incidence of suicide, please God by 10% by 2020. We have also stabilised the private health insurance market which was facing collapse in 2011 and 2012.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Take a trip out to Beaumont Hospital.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I wish to make a final point. It is something I noted and I will put it to the Deputy again. In 2004, in respect of accident and emergency overcrowding, the Deputy said: "I think it's going to need sustained investment on the nursing home side. It also requires the development of home care packages ... because of the funding constraints of the last three years we haven't really been in a position to develop such a programme."

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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That was 12 years ago.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The year 2004 was a boom time-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Fair deal.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----when the Deputy had the same old way - fire money at it and hope it will work.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach is way over time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The fair deal came in after that.

Photo of Patrick O'DonovanPatrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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It is amnesia.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Giving €800 million without reform is no good. We must have a developing economy and in a planned way deal with the structures of community care and home packages-----

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach cut them.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is absolutely necessary then to deal effectively with the interests of the patients by employing medical personnel such as nurses, doctors and consultants and have the capacity to deal with that.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is chaotic, and the Taoiseach knows it.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Alan Kelly, has today re-announced, as he is fond of doing, that the Government is to deliver 1,000 new social housing units.

That would be a very welcome development if it were true. However, a recent report by Simon shows that 95% of rental properties cannot be afforded by citizens dependent on State rental supports. We have been listening to the same announcements from the Taoiseach, the Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, and others for years. The Government promised that a minimum of 1,000 new social houses would be built in 2015. While that would have been welcome, even though it is a paltry number, relatively speaking, given the gravity and depth of the housing crisis, the target is not going to be met. Instead, the latest figures provided by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government show that a mere 28 local authority houses were constructed in the first nine months of 2015. That is 28 homes when children are growing up in hotel rooms, more than 5,000 citizens are in homeless accommodation, including 600 children, and more than 100,000 applicants are on waiting lists for local authority housing, including 5,000 in my constituency. Let us be straight about this. It is the policy of the Government not to build social and affordable housing. The Government's record is clear. Social housing construction has declined by 1,600% since 2011, its first year in office. Nevertheless, it could find €64 billion to pump into banks. Why does the Taoiseach not explain as he leaves office why he did not spend even a fraction of these billions to construct the homes that are so badly needed by citizens?

4:05 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Adams has been on before about raising the rent supplement on private accommodation. I have said to him on many occasions that the challenge here is to deal with the supply of houses. There are not enough houses available for the people who need them. To tinker around with the edges of that will not do anything to increase supply for people who badly need those houses.

Photo of Jonathan O'BrienJonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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It would get people out of hotels in the short term.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Adams knows that. The Government has responded in a number of ways as I have pointed out to the Deputy before, including by providing proper accommodation for people in units that were neglected, closed up or uninhabitable, significant numbers of which have been brought back into use and allocated to families. The social housing strategy for 2020 sets out clear and measurable targets to increase the supply of social housing to meet the housing needs of all householders on the social housing list. The intention and the objective is to deliver 110,000 units through current and capital funding streams between now and 2020 to 2021. In regard to putting together a strong house building programme, the Government has put €3 billion of taxpayers' money towards the social housing strategy out to 2021. In 2015, 13,000 units were delivered across all the social housing programmes, representing an 86% increase on the 7,000 units delivered in 2014. That is because of the total collapse of the construction sector over a number of years, of which Deputy Adams is very well aware. The target for this year is to deliver 17,000 units.

In the period 2011 to 2014, 26,000 new social housing units were delivered for families and people who needed them. The Deputy is aware of the housing assistance programme and the tenancy supplementary scheme, which has helped another 10,000 people to stay in the houses they have been in. The Government has sanctioned 400 additional local authority posts to help build capacity in order that local authorities can get back to building houses. In that sense, we have also introduced a new one-stage approval process for projects up to €2 million in value involving up to 15 new houses. Ordinarily, new housing construction projects go through a very extensive multi-stage approval process. This new opportunity allows for a much faster delivery between concept and construction. The Government has also worked closely with the representative bodies for the approved housing bodies sector, the Irish Council for Social Housing, the National Association of Building Co-Operatives, SHS oversight and so on. We have also approved the first bundle of public private partnership projects to deliver 500 units at six sites in the greater Dublin area. These are all elements of the challenge. There are quite a number of sites nationally at which work is going on at this very moment to deliver 926 social housing units, some of them in Deputy Adams's own constituency. I see from the list that most counties and areas are covered and construction is actually under way now. We need to get back to a point where local authorities use direct build methods to build these houses. The Government has provided them with the money, targets and facilities to get on and do that. I hope that will build up very strongly during the course of 2016.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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My question was about building. The fact is that in the first nine months of 2015, only 28 local authority houses were built. Sin é. That is the truth of it. The buzzword or weasel word the Taoiseach used was "delivery". He spoke about delivering. He said there was a need to build houses by 2020 and 2021 while on his watch now tens of thousands of families are in need of a home. As we sit here in the Chamber, there are children spending their formative years in homeless accommodation. They need social housing, not the Minister, Deputy Kelly, polishing his legacy at yet another press conference. They do not need serial announcements. The Government is all about the optics. It is all about spin and talking tough. The Taoiseach will remember his posturing at the meeting with the insurance industry in the aftermath of the recent flooding. He said he wanted them back within a week with what they were going to do, but those families still do not have insurance. That meeting was all about spin. There was no delivery.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question, please.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The scale of the Government's failure to deliver on this and other issues is stark. Instead of announcing the same plans over and over again, the Government must acknowledge that there has been a decline in the construction of social housing in every consecutive year since it has been in office. That is chaos upon chaos for the families involved. There are more than 100,000 applicants, which is more than would fill Croke Park, waiting for the Taoiseach's Government to provide them with homes. Is that what the Taoiseach means by stability?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I reject the Deputy's assertion that calling together the major insurance companies was either posturing or spin.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Where is the report?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have already given the Deputy the figures in respect of the Government's response to put money on the table, to give directions and targets to every local authority and to say "Get on with it". We have already pointed out that more than 2,000-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
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Pathetic. You are pathetic. How many houses have been built?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, let us hear the answer.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Mac Lochlainn.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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It is the same language: "Get on with it".

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Maybe they have a different way in Donegal. The position is that 2,000 houses and apartment units that were closed up and uninhabitable have been handed over recently to families and people who are now off the housing list. The housing assistance programme has helped 6,000, and 5,800 have been helped directly to stay in their accommodation by virtue of increasing the rent subsidy for them on an individual basis through the Department of Social Protection. Perhaps Deputy Adams does not want to recognise that.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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So there is no crisis.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The fact is the Government has set out €3 billion in its programme for social housing directly between here and 2021-----

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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That is no use to people now.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and has expedited the opportunity for local authority projects of fewer than 15 houses with a faster process to get to construction.

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
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How many houses were built last year?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is in everybody's interest.

As was said before, it is not a situation where one wants to condone children living in hotel accommodation or in bed and breakfasts, but the fact of the matter is that the entire construction sector had collapsed completely and we were dealing with 7,000 units a year for a country that would need 20,000 to 25,000.

4:15 pm

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
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Five years now.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am glad to say that it is coming back very strongly at the moment. Hopefully, 2016 will meet the target of 17,000 social housing units provided directly by local authorities-----

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Twenty-eight last year.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----for people who actually need them.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Twenty-eight houses last year.

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
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How many last year?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In respect of the Deputy's comment about spin and posturing, I think it was important to call in all of the insurance industries. They have written back and there are still some questions-----

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Dear John letters.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Maybe the Deputy has it already himself. I do not know. He had information before that I did not have so maybe I should not comment, but they did reply, Deputy Adams. There is a great deal of work to be followed through from what they have said. The Deputy will be aware that the Department of Finance is carrying out an analysis of all the different models of insurance in locations where there is no insurance in other countries, the question of demountable defences here and where there are full-time flood defences in place. In addition, there is the fact that the insurance companies have pointed out some of the statistics for cover, on which there remains to be some further work done. That letter has been received by us. It was considered by Government today and I assure the Deputy it will be followed through in a very realistic fashion by having further consultation with the companies in regard to people who cannot get insurance.

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
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How many houses last year?

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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On 1 January in Dublin Castle, there was an impressive flag-raising ceremony to start the 100th anniversary of the Easter Rising. An amazing array of launches and events is being held not just in Ireland, but also abroad, by a wide number of organisations. A number of restorations are ongoing, for example, Kilmainham court and Pearse's cottage.

It appears to me and others that this and previous Governments would have preferred it had the men and women involved been airlifted from the GPO to Richmond Barracks and Kilmainham Gaol, thereby bypassing Moore Street. However, they did not bypass it and it is part of the evacuation route. It was also witness to a number of events not just involving the leaders in Nos. 14-17 Moore Street, but the ordinary men and women who took part as well as citizens in Dublin.

Shaffrey Associates conducted a wider assessment of the 1916 battlefield as part of the ministerial consent to carry out work. I will cite parts of that assessment. The block exactly matches the terrace into which the majority of the GPO garrison escaped. The activities relating to the 1916 Rising that took place on Moore Street happened throughout the entire street, on adjacent lanes and within many of the buildings. The assessment specifically mentions buildings other than Nos. 14-17. Furthermore, Article 1 of the Venice Charter states: "The concept of a historic monument embraces not only the single architectural work but also the urban or rural setting." Article 6 states: "Wherever the traditional setting exists, it must be kept. No new construction, demolition or modification which would alter the relations of mass and colour must be allowed." To me, this means that the fabric of Moore Street and its area must be retained.

If one walked into Kilmainham Gaol or Pearse's cottage or if one went to Brú na Bóinne, one would immediately get a sense of what it was like to have been there at the time in question. This is what we could have at Moore Street. Last week or the week before, the Taoiseach launched a virtual reality tour of Easter 1916. I do not want that to form part of what we will do for Moore Street when we have the opportunity to retain the authenticity of Moore Street now. Westport House was withdrawn from NAMA. Under section 4.1.1 of the NAMA Act, that was possible for legitimate reasons in the public interest.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question, please.

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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The Government had the power to designate Nos. 14-17 Moore Street as a national monument. Why was this designation not extended to the rest of the terrace? Why has the Taoiseach abandoned what he called the "laneways of history" and why are we leaving it to a vulture capitalist to look after the rest of the battlefield site?

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I looked at this myself quite a number of years ago. To put it mildly, the condition of the street and of the buildings on either side of what is a national monument was simply disgraceful. I have listened to all of the rows about the national monument, about what should or should not be done about it. For that reason, the Government purchased the national monument.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Only a bit of it.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This has dragged on for many years with so many different variations, given the fact that Dublin City Council, as the planning authority, has responsibility regarding applications that come before it for planning permission both in respect of Moore Street and the lanes of history at the back of O'Connell Street and so on.

In respect of the centenary commemorations for 2016, the Government decided to purchase this for a sum of €4 million and to restore this building in a proper, authentic and time-of-the-period fashion. As I understand it, the maps and other documents show clearly that buildings on either side were either non-existent or in a state of collapse before the Rising took place in 1916. The Deputy is right that this was the centre of the end of the evacuation process from the side door of the GPO, in that the several hundred who evacuated the building were not in a position to go up Moore Street because of gunfire from the top of the Rotunda.

Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan knows that what the Government wants to do for the people here and for posterity is to take the buildings where the surrender was commissioned and preserve them as a national monument in respect of one of the first small countries to strike out for independence, politically and economically, at the start of the 20th century, but the Government does not own all of the streets and the buildings on either side of Nos. 14-17. The Government does own, in respect of the people now, these buildings and the intention is to have these restored in a proper and fitting fashion. It is not just a case of the vulture capitalists, venture capitalists or capitalists doing what they like in respect of the remainder of the surrounding area. The responsibility for planning and for approval of that lies initially with Dublin City Council and beyond that, if there is an objection, with An Bord Pleanála, and that is independent of the process of government.

I thought it appropriate, to be honest with the Deputy, that, given what was happening and what was not happening, and nothing was happening, it was right that the Government should purchase this in the interests of the people, preserving it as a lasting exhibition centre and an authentic recreation of what was there in 1916 when those who led the Rising in the GPO said, "Let us decide to burrow through the houses to Nos. 14-17", from where the order was given for Nurse O'Farrell to take the note in respect of surrender.

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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It is not just this Government, but successive ones. When this Government did the right thing with part of the terrace, why could it not have gone further and done the right thing with the whole area? We also had this exchange in 2014, when the Taoiseach told me that commemorative events had to be inclusive, sensitive and appropriate.

I will go back two weeks on the subject of Nos. 14-17. The occupation should never have happened, but what occurred that Monday was disrespectful, undignified and insensitive to what happened in Nos. 14-17. It was cloak-and-dagger stuff and no conservation expert was on hand to oversee the work. Someone happened to arrive along and heard workers using claw hammers. I mean no disrespect to the workers, but they did not know where they were, what they were doing or the significance of the building.

The reports contain many mistakes. In one conservation report, No. 18's facade was singled out as being pre-1916. In another, this was omitted. Once something is destroyed, it is gone forever. There are examples of this.

So far, the taxpayer has paid €9 million: €4 million to buy and €5 million designated for Nos. 14-17. Whose plan are we following? It does not appear to be the State's plan, but the plan that was drawn up by the same failed property developer that wanted to build over, under and around the national monument.

I have just been at a meeting in city hall with the Moore Street forum. Dublin City Council was represented. It claims that the Minister has responsibility but the Taoiseach claims that Dublin City Council has responsibility. A motion was passed by Dublin City Council on 11 January.

That motion must be taken into consideration by the Government. Since the Government is passing it in one way and Dublin City Council in another, there is a need for all the stakeholders to come together at the same time so these matters can be addressed. The Government must take the lead on this. Time is very much running out.

4:25 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I agree with Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan that this has dragged on for years and years and that there was never an agreed solution to the issue. That is why I believed it appropriate that the Government should acquire Nos. 14 to 17 for the Irish public, including the diaspora. That is why a purchase price was agreed and a sum was provided for the proper restoration of the building.

What I should do for the Deputy is to arrange for her to meet the experts from the Office of Public Works who showed me the plans for what they intend to do with the buildings, in a sensitive manner, internally and externally. As somebody who has an interest in the place, the Deputy should understand this. It is not the case that people who were passing by were suddenly working on Nos. 14 to 17. The work is based on a very specific and sensitive plan. There are some elements inside the buildings that are genuinely authentic and that can be restored or reproduced to give a feeling for the colours and materials that were evident in the houses. There are other elements that are not in this category. I can arrange the meeting for the Deputy so that she may see for herself the professionalism of the proposal. Perhaps she does not agree with me. Believe me, it is not a case of a subcontractor moving in and saying he believes we should do this or that. The proposal is based on a very sophisticated and detailed analysis of the work to be carried out on Nos. 14 to 17. The evidence will also be produced for the Deputy in respect of the buildings on either side. Effectively, she is claiming the State should have purchased all of Moore Street up as far as the Rotunda-----

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Yes.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----where The O'Rahilly was killed and so on. Obviously, the State purchased the central portion for the people. Interminably, over the years, Dublin City Council has had rows about this. Deputy Adams's own party was no great help, if I might say so, in the middle of all those discussions. Dublin City Council has a responsibility. If it wishes to set out a planning process or a plan and design that will retain the "lanes of history," as they are called, that is its responsibility. It has the authority to do that. The State, on behalf of the people, is now spending up to €9 million on the purchase, restoration, renovation and presentation of Nos. 14 to 17 in a proper and fitting manner. I will arrange the meeting for Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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A shopping mall.