Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I am pleased to present this Bill to the House. This is a short technical Bill. It was debated in the Seanad yesterday for 15 to 17 minutes or thereabouts. It provides for the inclusion in the Defence Act 1954 of an appropriate naval rank for the position of Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces. I thank Members for facilitating discussion on all Stages today.

Traditionally, the Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces has assumed the army rank of Lieutenant General. On 30 June 2015 the Government approved Rear Admiral Mark Mellet for approval by the President as the next Chief of Staff from the end of September. Rear Admiral Mellet is the first naval officer to be recommended for appointment by the President as Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces. The commissioned rank of Vice Admiral in the Defence Forces is the equivalent naval rank to the army rank of Lieutenant General. The purpose of the Bill is to provide for the rank of Vice Admiral in the Defence Act.

Before dealing with the detailed provisions, I wish to take this opportunity to congratulate Rear Admiral Mellett on his forthcoming appointment and wish him well in his new and challenging role. He will be taking office at the same time as the publication and launch of a new White Paper. There will be a sense of a new chapter for the Defence Forces, and that is welcome.

I also thank Lieutenant-General Conor O'Boyle for his distinguished service and important contribution as Chief of Staff in recent years. I got to know him very well in the past 12 months and regard him as a Chief of Staff who has done a remarkable job in recent years. He has changed things for the better in the Defence Forces. His mark is certainly on the White Paper. I thank him for a career of dedication in the Defence Forces and wish him a very happy retirement.

I will now mention the detailed provisions included in the Bill. Section 1 which contains definitions is a standard definitions section that, in this case, provides definitions for the "Principal Act", the Defence Act 1954, and the "Act of 1979", the Defence Act 1979.

Section 2 amends section 24 of the principal Act. The Second Schedule to the Defence Act 1954 lists, in tabular format, the commissioned Army and naval ranks in the Defence Forces. There is no equivalent naval rank for the Army rank of lieutenant-general. The section amends section 24(3) of the Defence Act 1954 to provide for the inclusion in the Second Schedule to the Act of the equivalent commissioned naval rank, that is, vice-admiral, for the commissioned Army rank of lieutenant-general.

Section 3 which amends the Second Schedule to the principal Act inserts, for ease of reference, an amended Second Schedule in the Defence Act 1954 that includes the naval rank of vice-admiral as the appropriate rank if a naval officer is appointed Chief of Staff.

Section 4 contains the Short Title and collective citation. It is a standard citation provision.

As the Bill will only give effect to a minor and technical change to the Defence Act 1954, it was considered that pre-legislative scrutiny was not needed in this case. On the proposed amendment tabled by Deputies Seán Ó Fearghaíl and Denis Naughten to change references to "Army rank" to "Army and Air Corps ranks", I do not propose to accept it on the basis that there is no requirement for separate references to Air Corps ranks which are the same as Army ranks. The Air Corps and the Naval Service are both service corps of the Defence Forces. The reason the Schedule to the Act provides a separate column for the Naval Service is that naval ranks are different from the ranks of the Army and the Air Corps. The Air Corps and the Army essentially use the same ranks, as Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl knows very well.

There is a need to review the Defence Acts and we will do so if we have time in government. The Act being amended was put together in 1954, but it really reflects what was put in place in 1924 and we need to review it.

An amendment has been ruled out of order because of potential cost implications. It proposes establishing a rank of admiral to match the rank of general. Neither of these ranks is used in the Defence Forces. For the sake of completeness, it is probably the right approach, but this is not the time for it. We are simply seeking to change the legislation in a technical way to facilitate the new Chief of Staff and establish an appropriate rank for him in order that the change can take effect in September.

A broader review of the Defence Acts which may involve many other changes is probably necessary, but I do not believe we have the time to carry it out in advance of September, which is when Lieutenant-General Conor O'Boyle will retire and soon-to-be Vice-Admiral Mark Mellett will take over as Chief of Staff. That is from where we are coming and I ask colleagues to facilitate the change today in order that it may be made.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I am absolutely happy to facilitate what the Minister is proposing. We have all agreed that this is pretty straightforward legislation. Like the Minister, I pay tribute to Lieutenant-General Conor O'Boyle who has had a long and distinguished career in the Defence Forces. I was particularly impressed by his contribution at the recent symposium on defence in Farmleigh in the Phoenix Park. I might not have agreed with some of the comments he made such as the one on decentralisation, but I certainly believed his contribution overall was of enormous value.

I am sure Rear Admiral Mark Mellett will give outstanding service to the Defence Forces and welcome his appointment. Today's initiative to pave the way for his appointment is important. I acknowledge that he has been Deputy Chief of Staff since November 2013. As I understand it, he is from County Mayo and joined the Navy in 1976. His first command was on LE Orlain 1992 and he commanded LE Ciarain 1997 and the Irish naval flagship LE Eithnein 2005. Therefore, he has had a broad range of appointments in naval headquarters. Prior to his appointment as flag officer in 2010, he was officer commanding naval operations command. He was also commandant of the Naval College and associate head of the National Maritime College of Ireland. He has received citations for service in Afghanistan and Lebanon and when he was captain of LE Orla,he was honoured by becoming the Navy's first second-officer recipient of the distinguished service medal in recognition of the role played by his ship in the detention of the drug smuggling yacht Brime. He is a founding member of the Irish Maritime and Energy Resource Cluster and a member of the governing authority. In 2009 je received a PhD in political science from the National University of Ireland which I suppose was of some help to him in making his submission in Farmleigh.

I am conscious that we will not take up too much time. I am also conscious that the Minister will probably publish his White Paper before the House resumes after the recess. As I have stated, he deserves commendation for his level of engagement in preparing the White Paper, but it is important that we recognise that the Defence Forces have gone through enormous change in recent times. While the Minister has fixed their strength at 9,500, the reality is that the number is closer to 9,000 and that there is significant pressure. In a recent policy paper Fianna Fáil produced we are considering moving back towards a position in which there would be perhaps 10,500 in the Defence Forces. We are committed to re-establishing the western brigade because the decision made peremptorily by the Minister's predecessor represented a seriously retrograde step.

As an island nation, we must consider the need to develop the Naval Service. Its current strength gives rise to concern. We need to equip the Navy and have more ships and need to be in a financial position to do so. We need to consider initiatives such as having a single unified maritime authority. However, these are all issues for the future. I hope that when the House resumes in September, we will have an opportunity at an early stage to debate the White Paper which I presume will be published by then.

Deputy Denis Naughten and I have tabled a number of amendments, to which the Minister has referred. Some of them have been ruled out of order. The Minister has referred to the fact that the Schedule from the 1954 Act, repeated in the 1979 Act, recognises we can have the position of general within the Army, but there is no corresponding role of admiral within the Navy. I do not see any reason this could not be rectified. It would be a very simple matter and the Minister has accepted that it is something we should probably do. However, his saying it is a little like saying, "God, make me pure but not quite at the moment." I do not believe there would be any difficulty on any side of the House in providing for a position-----

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I have no difficulty either but it has been ruled out of order so I cannot accept it.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I do not see why the Minister could not bring forward an amendment to address it in the same way. Obviously, I take his point about the Air Corps. One fully understands that the command role and titles within the Air Corps are similar to those applying with the Army. None the less, it seems somewhat perverse that we have an Air Corps, yet when one reads the Schedules to the 1954 Act or the 1979 Act, there is no mention in them of the existence of an Air Corps. We are simply putting on paper the reality of what exists. I cannot for the life of me see why this would present any particular difficulty.

We are about the business of clearing the way for the appointment of Vice Admiral-to-be Mark Mellett. I certainly support that. I will not delay the House as we go about that particular piece of business. The two salient points we have made in terms of how the Bill might be amended are relevant and appropriate. I think the Minister accepts they are appropriate and I do not see why we cannot do something about it now.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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This Bill arises from the retirement of the former Chief of Staff, Lieutenant General Conor O'Boyle, and the Government's decision to make Mark Mellett the new Chief of Staff because, under existing legislation, Rear Admiral Mellett would not be of sufficiently high rank. I note that his name is spelt wrongly in the explanatory memorandum. I hope that does not jeopardise the plans and make us have to go back to the drawing board again. None the less, the idea of changing the law in response to an appointment is generally not good practice. I am not in any way casting aspersions on the individual in question. It is a bit like the appointment of Judge Mary Ellen Ring as the new commissioner of GSOC. Again, she must be moved up the rank to take that position. If we are saying these positions should be open to all, they should be open to all and we should change the circumstances that allow that to happen rather than use a piecemeal approach. This is better practice.

It is important this discussion is taking place against the backdrop of the overall changes to the Defence Forces and the discussions around the White Paper. In that context, it would be an awful shame to forfeit the opportunity to make some broader points about that. I have no knowledge of Rear Admiral Mellett. I believe he is highly regarded by the staff and personnel across the board in the Defence Forces, although based on some of the things I have heard, I would be a bit wary. He reminds me of my time in Aer Lingus. When Christoph Mueller was appointed as chief executive, many members of staff very much welcomed his different approach. They welcomed the fact he was perceived as somebody who could come in with a new broom and ruffle the feathers of those in the privileged positions of management but, of course, when he was finished doing that, having received the assistance of the staff in many instances, he moved against them as well, so I would sound that word of warning. The Rear Admiral seems to be very talented. He has moved very quickly through the ranks. I believe he was appointed to the special post of Rear Admiral by the former Minister for Defence a number of years ago, an appointment that took place when there was a moratorium on general recruitment in the public service which was a bit unusual. He is now being promoted again to take over as Chief of Staff. Perhaps that is the best decision or perhaps it is not - I do not know. However, there is a contrast between the way in which this has been dealt with and the way in which the ordinary ranks of the Defence Forces are being dealt with. We must take that into account.

I again acknowledge the difficulties that have been highlighted by organisations like PDFORRA concerning the living standards of Defence Forces personnel because of repeated years of pay cuts and the fact a large percentage of our soldiers have to rely on family income supplement to make ends meet. We have seen the dreadful treatment of the families of some former Defence Forces personnel who were evicted from their dwellings in areas like the Curragh Camp. As a result of the closure of barracks, there have been confirmed stories of soldiers having to sleep in cars because they do not have the income to pay for lengthy journeys to their bases. That is not good common sense.

When we are talking about facilitating a promotion, we must also look at the avenue to promotion ordinary personnel have. I would like us to discuss that because officers are filling vacancies that were previously filled by NCOs. That is happening and is cutting across the opportunities of soldiers. A dining hall has an officer in charge whereas a sergeant would have been in charge previously. Enlisted personnel find it difficult to fulfil their contracts and get their service periods abroad because some functions that were traditionally performed by soldiers are being given to officers. Greater numbers of officers are making those trips overseas and carrying out functions such as acting as drivers. This is closing off a promotional route for ordinary NCOs. When we talk about promotion, let us look at some of those issues, because they are linked.

I believe Rear Admiral Mellett is on record as saying he is favourable to the idea of commissioning from the ranks and challenging some of the Chinese wall between the ranks and, for want of a better word, officer classes. I would welcome such an approach.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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That has been happening actively.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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It is the necessary way to go. However, we have to listen a lot more because there is a feeling morale is low in the Defence Forces. The three brigade structure has not worked. There is a belief it was totally dysfunctional and misguided. Troops from Finner Camp are coming to Dublin to carry out duties. Military police officers are being sent from Athlone to carry out duties in Leinster House. This does not make any sense. While this legislation is to facilitate the making of a promotion, we should also look at promotions through the ranks. An important challenge for the new Chief of Staff will be to listen more to personnel on the ground. The role of the Defence Forces Ombudsman has been contentious in some aspects because previous Chiefs of Staff sometimes ignored the recommendations and rulings of the ombudsman. There is also a belief the ombudsman has not been able to fulfil his functions completely properly because the position is held by a former military judge and is somewhat of a part-time position. I hope that in assuming his duties the new Chief of Staff will not go down that road and will pay heed to the recommendations and rulings of the Defence Forces Ombudsman.

It is appropriate, given that we are talking about the appointment of the first naval officer as Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces, that we look at the role of the Naval Service. Like Deputy Peadar Tóibín, I will refer to the role of the LE Eithne. I very much welcome genuine participation by Defence Forces personnel, or anybody else for that matter, in intervening in the horrendous migrant crisis in the Mediterranean. We last discussed the issue at Question Time a number of weeks ago when we referred to the fact that Frontex, the border security organisation, was involved not in a humanitarian search and rescue operation but in border management. This claim was studiously denied by the Minister when he said Ireland's efforts were purely motivated by humanitarian concerns. Of course, subsequent to our last discussion documents came to light through the "This Week" programme on RTE which revealed clearly that the Government was actually opposed to search and rescue operations. When we were tabling important Topical Issues about the ending of the Mare Nostrum Italian search and rescue operation and the devastating impact this would have, little did we know that Irish Government Ministers in attending European meetings had been ordered to stay schtum, to make no contribution and to say absolutely nothing. They had been advised that if they had to say something, they should talk about the 300 people already here.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy knows that they are misleading comments.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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That is not good enough. It was a case of misleading the House on our role there-----

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is the one who is misleading the House.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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When LE Eithneand LE Niamhrescue migrants in these precarious waters, they should be regarded as Irish property and their entry into Ireland should be facilitated. However, the documents show that the Government supported the ending of the Mare Nostrum operation which, in turn, led to the deaths of thousands of people. That is not good enough. It is welcome that the Naval Service is now there, but I wish it was there to deal in a much more comprehensive way with refugees and the migrant crisis.

I wish to pick up on the point made by Deputy Peadar Tóibín about neutrality and the backdrop to the operations of the Defence Forces. In that sense I am a little concerned that included in the pedigree and CV of Rear Admiral Mellett is the fact that he is a distinguished graduate of the US naval war college on Rhode Island. I am deeply concerned about the close relationship between the US military and the Defence Forces in the context of the sincerely held belief of most citizens that we should be neutral. That co-operation is shown in the daily contact between the US defence attaché in Ireland and the Defence Forces. It is shown in particular by our facilitation of the US war machine in the repeated use of Shannon Airport which sees two US military landings every day, not to mention the troops, totalling 2.5 million, who have crossed the country on their way to causing devastation in the Middle East. Undoubtedly, it is a contributing factor to destabilisation around the globe and the development of ISIS. The new Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces should operate against a backdrop of enhanced and active neutrality. Unfortunately, however, the Government has seemed to creep in the opposite direction. These issues will be debated when we discuss the White Paper.

I wish the new Chief of Staff all the best and the retiring Chief of Staff a happy retirement. I hope the standard set in the facilitating of individuals at the top of the Defence Forces will also be exercised in the case of those in the middle and ordinary ranks, the men and women who give excellent service, both in Ireland and internationally, as part of peacekeeping operations. There is no point in patting them on the back and telling them they are doing a great job and then refusing to remunerate them appropriately to allow them and their families to have a decent standard of living.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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I welcome this legislation to facilitate the appointment of Mark Mellett as Vice-Admiral of the Defence Forces. I wish him every success in his new role and implementing, with the Minister, the White Paper on defence which will allow for a significant reorganisation and refocusing of the Defence Forces. I was disappointed I did not have an opportunity to speak in the debate on the White Paper and that the debate was so limited.

I wish to bring to the attention of the Minister an issue relating to the reorganisation of the Defence Forces to which Deputy Clare Daly referred. It concerns the movement of personnel around the country to provide cover in Dublin. Significant numbers of staff and personnel are moved from Custume Barracks in Athlone to carry out duties in Dublin. In the medium term this is completely unsustainable. Everyone is aware of this fact but too afraid to say anything in case he or she upsets the apple cart. What is happening in Athlone is replicated at Finner Camp in County Donegal and Cathal Brugha Barracks in Dundalk. It means, in practical terms, a loss of 2,000 man days every month at three barracks to provide cover in the Dublin area, including at Leinster House and other military sites. The mileage clocked up by Defence Forces personnel in these three barracks in providing cover in Dublin is the equivalent of travelling around the world 18 times a year. In effect, every member of the Defence Forces based in Athlone, Dundalk and County Donegal is being relocated to Dublin once a month to carry out duties. Not only is there a significant cost in terms of transport and fuel - the additional cost is approximately €200,000 per annum - staff also receive days off in lieu. This is seriously restricting the operations of the Defence Forces in Ballyshannon, Dundalk and Athlone. It is also very disruptive for staff and their families, some of whom reside in places such as Cavan. They must travel to Athlone to collect their guns before travelling on to Dublin to carry out their duties.

The same applies to Donegal and Ballyshannon where staff have to come from outside Letterkenny before travelling on to Dublin. I cannot see how this can be justified in the long term.

While I believe there is no threat to the retention of Custume Barracks in Athlone, it is disingenuous to say there is no threat to personnel numbers based there after the general election under the current structure. The former Minister for Defence gave a commitment to maintain personnel numbers in Athlone at 1,000 and I welcomed that commitment at the time. However, I believe it is unsustainable with the current structure and over time it will undermine the status of Custume Barracks. While the current staffing structure protects the local economy in Athlone, I believe it is the tool that will be used to downgrade Custume Barracks in the longer term. In the future, Defence Forces personnel will not want to go to Athlone because they will be pulled from pillar to post.

We are all committed to delivering on a commitment given to the late former Deputy, Nicky McFadden. I see Deputy Gabrielle McFadden in the House. We all want to see those numbers retained in Athlone. I know the Minister is committed to that, as was his predecessor. However, if the current structure remains in place, it will not allow for those numbers to be retained in the long term in Custume Barracks.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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That is not true. The Deputy is raising fears-----

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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I ask the Minister to let me finish my point. I have very limited time and was not given the opportunity to speak on the White Paper. I have only been given five minutes today. I did not get the same time slot as everyone else here. I ask the Minister to let me finish out my point as he will have the opportunity to respond.

I want a permanent structure to be put in place within the Defence Forces to allow for the commitment that was given to the late Nicky McFadden by the former Minister, Deputy Shatter, to be implemented and maintained in the long term. The figures I have outlined today are unsustainable in the long term and cannot be defended in that context. I want a mechanism to ensure that the 1,000 personnel-----

Liam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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-----we were promised in Athlone will be maintained and the status of Custume Barracks will be maintained into the future.

Liam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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That can only be done-----

Liam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy must conclude now.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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With all due respect, there is an hour for Second Stage.

Liam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I do not set Standing Orders.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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No.

Liam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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There is no point in arguing with me. The Deputy should take it up with the Ceann Comhairle.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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However, each grouping was given the same allocated time of 15 minutes.

Liam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Deputy-----

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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The other speakers have not used their time.

Liam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Sorry, Deputy-----

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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Chairman-----

Liam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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When I speak the Deputy is supposed to stop. He has in been the House long enough. I do not set the Standing Orders. I am given the brief as set out by the House and it allows five minutes for Members other than the main group speakers. The Deputy's five minutes is up.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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He can have the two minutes I did not use.

Liam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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No, it does not work that way.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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There is an hour.

Liam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Deputy, do you understand-----

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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Just let me finish the last sentence then.

Liam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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There is no point in arguing with me. The Deputy is here long enough. He has been in the House longer than I have been and he understands the Standing Orders better than I do. He should make one sentence. He understands how Standing Orders work. I ask him to conclude.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
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All I am asking is that in conjunction with the incoming chief of staff, the Minister should outline a structure that fulfils the commitment that was given to the late Nicky McFadden and the town of Athlone through a sustainable reorganisation of the Defence Forces.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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We will have an opportunity to debate the defence White Paper again, I suspect. I hope Deputy Naughten will be part of that debate and I am sure he will be. I have repeatedly given commitments on Custume Barracks in Athlone. The numbers stationed there now are higher than they were under the previous Administration even though many people have said otherwise. We intend to ensure that commitments that were given to the late Nicky McFadden are honoured. I am not sure it is appropriate to raise that commitment here, but since the Deputy has raised it, I am happy to say I intend to honour it. However, we will honour it in a way that makes sense in terms of structures and management within the Defence Forces. That will not be decided by a politician. It will be decided in consultation between the Defence Forces, the Department of Defence and the Minister. However, the commitment is clear in that regard and it will remain the case.

Some of today's comments may be linked to people looking to elections down the track. I get the impression that if our White Paper proposed doubling the numbers in the Defence Forces, Fianna Fáil would add another 1,000 to it and that would be its statement. People need to look at what is happening in the Defence Forces and the commitments that have been made, which are being delivered on. The White Paper will be published in advance of September. We will have an opportunity to debate it at that stage. I will happily have that debate because the White Paper contains a considerable amount that people will want to debate and discuss.

Today is not really about the White Paper as such, but of course Deputies have the right to raise general issues in the context of a Second Stage debate. The Bill introduces a technical amendment to legislation that, I accept, probably needs a broader review. It will allow for the smooth transition from one chief of staff to the next. It happens to be that somebody, who has moved through the naval ranks, has been a naval officer in the past and is currently the deputy chief of staff, is now the recommended Government appointee and we need to facilitate that. That is what we are focusing on today.

There was a broader discussion on neutrality and how it is protected in the White Paper in a way that is consistent with foreign policy papers that have been published in the past six or eight months. When the White Paper is published Deputies will see that the settled policy on Irish military neutrality remains consistent with the new White Paper.

The issue of promotions was raised. Many promotions are taking place in the Defence Forces at the moment and there is also considerable recruitment. There is also investment in the Defence Forces. In the coming days a new naval vessel will arrive into Cork Harbour. We will also see the product of new missions to which the Government has committed. The LE Eithnewill also be returning to Haulbowline on Friday morning and I am looking forward to meeting those personnel when they arrive.

A lot is happening in defence at the moment and most of it is positive. We have a future vision for the Defence Forces which will be published before September and I would be more than happy to have a debate on that when it is published to allow people to get under the skin of some of the things we are proposing. There will be an opportunity for everybody to discuss numbers, reviews, new ideas, and maintaining and supporting current structures of management and roles in the Defence Forces. I appeal to Deputies to facilitate us today in making a technical change to allow us appoint a new Chief of Staff who is more than qualified for the job.