Dáil debates

Wednesday, 21 January 2015

Junior Cycle Reform: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]

 

The following motion was moved by Deputy Jonathan O'Brien on Tuesday, 20 July 2014:That Dáil Éireann:— notes that the previous Government examined axing the junior certificate examination structures as a cost-saving initiative and that such axing of the junior certificate examination structures was the starting point of the current Government until teacher unions began a campaign of opposition; — is concerned that the Minister for Education and Skills is refusing to listen to legitimate concerns of teachers who are expected to deliver reforms, which has created the impasse in the negotiations; — notes that strike action by teachers is due to take place on 22 January and further notes that this action is not being undertaken lightly; — notes that teachers have engaged previously in strike action and other forms of industrial action on an ongoing basis, which undermines the delivery of the proposed changes, including not attending the CPD training organised in connection with the junior cycle framework proposals; not attending planning meetings associated with the JCFP; not engaging in any aspect of school-based assessment for the purposes of the junior cycle student award; not engaging in any development or delivery of the new junior cycle framework short courses; — acknowledges that the Minister for Education and Skills has moved previously on the issue of junior cycle reform; — recognises that reform and modernisation of the junior cycle is needed in order that the education system is fit for students today; — notes that schools and teachers are stretched beyond capacity within the current educational framework which has suffered enormous cuts to resources under the Government’s austerity budgets, including a further 1% cut in capitation grants this year; — commends teachers for continuing to work for their students under difficult circumstances; — further acknowledges that students’ education may suffer if teachers are expected to deliver reforms they are not adequately resourced to deliver and in circumstances where, in the absence of agreement, there is ongoing industrial action; and — calls on the Minister for Education and Skills to postpone further implementation of junior cycle reform until all outstanding matters are resolved with the teachers.

Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:To delete all words after “Dáil Éireann” and substitute the following: "acknowledges that the current Government’s only motivation in proposing Junior Cycle reform has been improving outcomes for students; recognises that the Junior Cycle reforms are based on longitudinal research carried out by the Educational and Social Research Institute and the advice of the statutory body charged with providing advice on curriculum matters to the Minister for Education and Skills: the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment; accepts that unless there is an element of school-based assessment at Junior Cycle, classroom practice will remain unchanged and real reform of the Junior Cycle and improvements for students will not be achieved; notes that the Minister for Education and Skills has listened to the concerns of all stakeholders, including teachers, on this issue and has met teacher union representatives on several occasions; further acknowledges that, on the basis of the concerns expressed to her, the Minister for Education and Skills has significantly amended the reform proposals to meet the concerns of teacher unions; further notes that compromise suggested by the Minister for Education and Skills proposes 60% external assessment by the State Examinations Commission for all subjects and moderation by the State Examinations Commission in respect of school based assessment; regrets that: — notwithstanding the significant movement by the Minister for Education and Skills, teacher unions have not seen fit to make any changes whatsoever in their position; — industrial action by teachers is due to take place on 22nd January when the Minister for Education and Skills has made every effort to progress discussions and made significant concessions to meet teacher concerns; and — the industrial action of teachers encompasses measures which impact negatively on students, their parents and teachers themselves who are missing an opportunity to engage in professional development; recognises that reform and modernisation of the Junior Cycle is needed so that our education system meets the needs of today’s students; notes that investment ring-fenced for Junior Cycle development in budget 2015 is €9.3 million and that the Government is committed to this essential investment for the roll out of an education for students which is fit for purpose; and calls on the Minister for Education and Skills to continue implementation of Junior Cycle reform which has been welcomed by education stakeholders including parent and student representatives and school management bodies." - (Minister for Education and Skills)

5:15 pm

Photo of Alan FarrellAlan Farrell (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I understand Deputy Coppinger is sharing time with Deputies Wallace, Daly, O'Sullivan and Healy. How does she propose to share her time?

Photo of Ruth CoppingerRuth Coppinger (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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It will be two minutes for each of us.

I extend my full support and that of the Anti-Austerity Alliance to the teachers, who are facing into strike action tomorrow. I am a member of the ASTI. I do not know if I am the only ASTI member in the Dáil who supports the teachers, but I am not the only ASTI member. In the short time I have, I want to put this strike in context. Teachers are taking a stance against changed work practices. They are workers. They are allowed to object to an increase in their workload or a change in their work practices.

They are also taking a stand for the education system itself. I am not one to quote Senator Fidelma Healy Eames on a regular basis, but she is quoted today as saying that this is "the tip of the iceberg for teacher assessment when compared with the 100% teacher assessment in place in other countries". That is what this is about. It is about an attempt to have all certification of students done at a local, school-based level. One begins with the junior certificate at 40%, then moves to 100%. Then one will move to the leaving certificate. An Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, made it clear in the programme for Government that a new system of self-evaluation would be introduced, requiring all schools to evaluate their own performance, year-on-year, and publish information across a wide range of criteria. In other words, league tables and schools competing with each other. This is about the commercialisation of the education system. I also object to things that Ministers have said. The idea that teachers are encouraging rote learning on a daily basis is an insult. If one moves to assessment, what do they think teachers will be spending their time doing then? They will be trying to get students through the assessments. In particular, working class students and students in disadvantaged areas who do not have the cultural capital of their parents to help them at home will be very reliant on the teachers to get them through those hoops.

There is no benefit in this for students. I urge parents to come out and support the students, to make it clear that the exams should be anonymous, they should be beyond reproach, and teachers should not mark their own students for State exams and accreditation.

Photo of Mick WallaceMick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Any reform taken in the education system must keep students and the quality of education they receive at its heart. The workload capacity of teachers must also be taken into account and it must be realistic in what it expects to deliver. The junior cycle reform proposed by this Government is more focused on cost-cutting in an already decimated sector, rather than on the provision and integrity of a quality examination. The word "reform" is being used to disguise more cuts.

Recently, the Minister, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, referred to the upcoming strike as unnecessary, demonstrating a clear disregard for the voices of the 27,000 teachers represented by the TUI and ASTI. The concerns of teachers regarding the proposed changes have been ignored from the start of this process, an attitude made abundantly clear in the fact that only a single day of in-service training was offered prior to the proposed implementation of the new junior cycle English course. One day is ridiculous.

Sure, the junior certificate needs to be reformed. The junior certificate is an important part of preparation for the leaving certificate and any reform should take into account best practice at leaving certificate level. The system of oral examination in the leaving certificate involves external assessment, with students being examined by teachers from other schools. This upholds the fairness and integrity of the examination and should also apply to the junior certificate, instead of the current confusing optional oral system, which is an example of a half-baked reform. This Government talks about the need for reform, but then refuses to spend the money required to provide a better system, based on best practice. I have a friend, Tricia, who teaches in Dublin. She recently carried out a survey of junior certificate students, where she proposed that the mock junior certificate be marked in-house. There was overwhelming opposition to it as students demanded independent assessment.

Lack of consultation with teachers and students by the State authorities means that we have another strike tomorrow. Communication does help. Everyone accepts that change needs to happen, but it must be done in consultation with teachers and students.

Photo of Clare DalyClare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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The Taoiseach made the point earlier that students and parents do not want a strike, with the implication that teachers in some way did want a strike, which is a ridiculous proposition. Teachers would far prefer to be in the classroom, doing their job. He is not just wrong in that. My daughter, who is a junior certificate student, is happy that the teachers are going on strike, not because they are getting a day off, but because she and her peers recognise the difficulties they would have if it was left to their teachers to evaluate them. They know how difficult that would be, human nature being what it is. As a parent of a junior certificate student, I am also happy that teachers are making that stand. I am not happy that they have to, but I am happy that the assault on teachers' working conditions and wages over the past number of years has not eroded their principles. It has not diminished their resolve to make a stand when it is important to do so. This is the only avenue they have to force the Government to listen. I salute them in that regard.

Does anybody out there support the junior certificate as it stands? Probably not, but delivering an alternative education system that is better for students cannot be done without engaging with the teaching staff who are at the coalface. That is, in essence, what this dispute has originated from. The Government has failed to listen and I am glad that the teachers are taking it on. Fintan O'Toole very eloquently addressed the issues with our education system. He made the point that exams are brutal, mechanical and depersonalising and the system we have devalues many of the things that should be stimulated in young people - creativity, cooperation and so on - but the examination system has a shining light to it in that it is impersonal. Everybody is treated the same; it does not matter who one is. That is a very valuable proposition in our education system. I hope the Government takes note and listens to what those at the coalface are saying.

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I am speaking from my 35 years' experience of teaching in a second-level school, teaching both the old intermediate certificate and the junior certificate. With my teaching colleagues, we have embraced a myriad of changes through the years. Some of those changes included assessment. For example, a long time ago, there was a junior cycle programme in history, geography and social studies, with the projects corrected by the teachers, but there was cross-moderation. This was organised through the curriculum development unit. There were other projects for environment and social studies and again they were corrected by the teachers but with an independent examiner. Today, teachers do correct the leaving certificate applied and one third of the credits are from teachers.

Teachers have embraced continuous assessment, but they have genuine concerns over correcting their own students in the junior certificate. The current system is fair, objective and transparent. The new proposal undermines that. There will be pressure on teachers to alter marks, in the same way there is pressure on lecturers at third level to alter the marks of students who are dissatisfied with the mark they receive. We know there is competition between schools for numbers and there is always a type of league table in operation.

A form of continuous assessment is already in place, in that teachers give homework, they have class tests and they have Christmas and summer tests. They are also involved in giving their students projects and teachers do value the skills that come about through project work. All that assessment is continuous. The teachers keep the records. They have the marks and the grades to discuss with their students and at parent-teacher meetings. I would like to see that included in some way. Not 40% - that is far too much - but all that work should be recognised.

Rote-learning does have a place. It complements independent thinking. I taught both English and history and there was a place for rote-learning in that.

My other major concern is about the depth of the learning experience. The proposed statements of learning undermine that. As someone who taught history, I have spoken about this with the Minister, because there are grave issues regarding the teaching of history and geography, but I also know from talking to friends who teach other subjects that they have concerns about that learning experience.

5:25 pm

Photo of Séamus HealySéamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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I am keen to record my support for the teachers' strike action tomorrow. Furthermore, I record my support for this Private Members' motion. In supporting the motion, I use the term "junior cycle change" rather than "junior cycle reform", because reform infers upgrading and improvement. However, I believe the proposed changes, far from improving second level education will be detrimental to it.

It is important to recall where these proposals and changes came from initially. They came from the last Fianna Fáil Green Party Government as part of austerity or cost-cutting measures. There is no doubt that successive budgets from this Government and the previous Government have cut vast resources out of education. Schools and teachers are now at breaking point in this regard. Indeed, there was a further cut of 1% this year.

Second level schools in Ireland are all locally based and rightly so. A major strength of the set-up is the closeness of teachers to the community. I believe that having teachers assess their own students cannot but damage the relationship between teachers and students, teachers and schools and teachers and the community. Moreover, it will undermine confidence in second level qualifications generally and, as a result, it will have a detrimental effect on students, particularly students from disadvantaged schools. On this basis I call on the Minister to defer the implementation of these changes until there is agreement with the teachers.

Photo of Alan FarrellAlan Farrell (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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The next slot is led by Deputy Maloney. Time will be shared as follows: Deputies Maloney and Conaghan will have two minutes each; Deputies Connaughton, Áine Collins, Lyons and Tuffy will have four minutes each; and Deputies Neville and Mulherin will have five minutes each.

Photo of Eamonn MaloneyEamonn Maloney (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It is a short time in which to speak. The issue we are debating is the question of reform of the junior cycle. It is worth pointing out that this is not a new subject that has only been debated in recent times. I have counted nine consecutive Ministers with responsibility for education, including the current Minister, who have discussed this subject at various times during their tenure. I stopped counting after that. This covered the period when we were told that we were the richest little country in the world. Even during that period discussions were under way on this subject and those discussions included the trade unions at the time.

This system has existed for over 20 years. As legislators and educators we know that no system is perfect. As society and the world changes, our education systems should come up for scrutiny.

I always take this back to the basic point about education. In society, particularly Irish society, the greatest level of discrimination against the poorest takes place in education. People refer to the junior cycle and the leaving certificate as a good thing, etc. However, if it is such a great system and not to be tampered with or discussed, why is it that in recent years such a small proportion of working class children get past the door of a university? If it is so good, why has it not been good to them? The system should be up for scrutiny, as should all things in education.

As a former member of the school board in Old Bawn Community School, Tallaght, I take a different view to some people. Let us consider the stress that this system loads on children aged only 14 and a half or 15 years. Such pressures should not be put on any children. Any child can continue to learn without such pressure. I have held this view for 20 years. It should be discontinued and replaced with a different system.

Photo of Michael ConaghanMichael Conaghan (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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I thank Deputy Maloney for two minutes of his time. I will not exceed my time. The Teachers Union of Ireland has objected to some of the Minister's proposed reforms. However, I believe they are necessary and long overdue. I am particularly surprised at the TUI objections because the union has been a progressive presence in Irish education at second level, in further education and in higher education.

As we know, education operates within a given social and economic context. This context is subject to change and at the moment the context is subject to rapid change and challenge. There is a requirement for new skills, new competencies and new modes of learning to match the changing world of work and employment. The context is pressing. New content requires new modes of assessment and the Minister is simply responding to that requirement. I believe the Minister is doing no more than her job requires and I support her in this regard.

Photo of Paul ConnaughtonPaul Connaughton (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Acting Chairman for the opportunity to speak on this motion. It is over a quarter of a century since the current junior certificate was established. At the time, for many students it was the last formal examination. Now, thankfully, only approximately 10% of children leave formal education at this stage.

Our focus should be on the learning process and the skills learned rather than the outcome of an examination. We can all agree that those leaving school in 1989 faced very different challenges to those leaving school in 2015 and beyond. Educational theory has moved on significantly in the meantime. Now, the emphasis is on teaching children life skills as opposed to learning by rote.

When the proposals for overhauling the junior cycle were initially mooted, real fear was expressed by students, parents and teachers about the fairness of students' teachers marking their work. However, in the intervening period much has been done to allay some of these fears. For example, the current proposal is that final examinations would account for 60% of the junior cycle marks. Furthermore, these examinations would be set and marked by the State Examinations Commission. The proposal has allayed the fears of many in respect of that reform.

What remains is 40% of the marks. Recent years have seen an increased emphasis on portfolio and project work, group work and oral testing. It is only sensible that these be assessed on a continual basis with appropriate external checks to ensure fairness. Much of the focus has been on the marking structure of the examination. The 40% continuous assessment element reflects best practice. There is an acceptance of continuous assessment and non-examination-based assessment in countries throughout Europe. Rather than focusing on examinations, our focus should be on what children are learning during this important three-year period. In particular, I welcome the focus on health and well-being; physical education; social, personal and health education; and civic, social and political education. The focus has followed from consultation with young people who have sought for a greater emphasis to be placed on social and life skills.

The change to the junior certificate is not about saving money. Rather, it is about using the knowledge gained about best practice and teenage learning in the past two or three decades and putting that in place in Irish classrooms to ensure that students learn skills that will be of value during their lives rather than sitting in silence and learning off long tracts of information.

I believe the Minister has taken on board the real concerns of teachers in an even-handed manner. This is reflected in the reduced level of school-based assessment. However, Ireland is already out of step in terms of the European experience in embracing the importance of ongoing assessment and the move away from a reliance on end-of-year written examinations.

When consulted about the junior certificate reform representatives from Dáil na nÓg stated that the junior certificate, as it currently stands, is essentially a memory test. They found this to be a negative form of assessment which leads to undue stress for many. The voice of those sitting the examinations is important. Education is now a collaborative affair between students and teachers and it is only right that their views are taken on board.

I believe that necessary safeguards can be put in place to ensure the fairness of the overall result in respect of the written examination and the school-based assessment. Once new structures are agreed by all parties we can move forward with a junior cycle that reflects best practice internationally, one that rewards real learning as opposed to rote learning and one that will properly equip students for life in 21st century Ireland.

Photo of John LyonsJohn Lyons (Dublin North West, Labour)
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I suppose most people who know anything about me know that I worked as a secondary school teacher for 13 years. I come to the House in as impartial a manner as possible with no desire for point-scoring or anything like that.

Deputy Coppinger and myself trained together as teachers back in 1998. Curriculum and assessment was one element of our post-graduate course which was taught by Professor Ted Wragg, one of the best known British educationalists for more than 30 years. He died about ten years ago, having written more than 50 books on education. I still remember one quote from him during the curriculum and assessment module of my higher diploma from almost 20 years ago. He said that assessment is the tail that wags the curriculum dog. That says much more than the number of words in the sentence.

Back in 1989 I was one of the first students to do the new junior certificate, which was supposed to be the bells and whistles in terms of offering a new type of education to young people. However, it did nothing more than what the intermediate certificate had done before it. We had a new scheme and a new concept but we never changed the assessment process. We left it as a terminal exam at the end of year three. The exam was marked independently, which has its merits admittedly. We never changed the assessment process but did deliver a new curriculum which was supposed to equip people like myself and those who came after me with new skills that we could bring with us throughout our lives, such as becoming reflective learners, reflective practitioners, capable of engaging in group work and so forth. The reality is, however, that we never changed the assessment process.

If we are to have any sort of new cycle - in this case the junior cycle - we need to have a new assessment process. That assessment process must be able to learn what is going on in the classroom. How many people here have done an exam at some stage in their lives and had a bad day? Something might have gone wrong on the way into the exam. That can happen, whether one is 15 or 25. One can have a bad day and it is wrong to judge people on three years of work in a two-hour exam at the end of the cycle. That does not reflect the quality of work that somebody might have put in over those three years. It does not reflect the commitment someone may have made in trying to speak French in class during all of that time or the amount of time spent practising and going back over work.

The proposal that is before us genuinely offers a new assessment process which will take into account the real learning that young people should be experiencing and not just their ability to look at the geography exam papers from the past ten years and remember how to draw a map. If a student can remember how to do that, he or she is 30% of the way towards passing junior certificate geography. That is not acceptable for me as a teacher. I committed myself to being a teacher because I believe in the betterment of young people. I genuinely believe that most teachers would have no problem with what I have said here tonight. They go into teaching because of the belief they have in young people. They want the best for young people. However, I acknowledge that there is an issue at the moment. I have no particular opinion on what the teachers will do tomorrow - that is their decision and they have good reasons for making it.

At the centre of these changes is our young people and our desire for a better society - a better, well-equipped and more mature society with young people who have the skills to get the best out of life. The assessment process to which Professor Wragg referred is about not allowing the curriculum to be led by the exam. It is about letting the learning lead the way. However, we cannot do this without teacher support. Teachers are pressed already. They are working 33 periods plus five additional periods under the Haddington Road Agreement. They do not have a minute in school. We can deliver a new school-based assessment process that involves teachers only if we bring those teachers with us. I believe that teachers will come with us, provided we change the work practices in schools. They cannot do this on top of the work they are doing right now. I support the junior certificate reform proposals and the Government's motion.

5:35 pm

Photo of Joanna TuffyJoanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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Some of the opposition to the proposed reforms by some of the Opposition members is a knee-jerk reaction. I take as an example the contribution from Deputy Clare Daly, to which I listened in my office. Her response was very much based on the premise that if the Government is for it and the unions are against it, then she should oppose it. On the Sinn Féin position, it was my impression that the party was not opposed in principle to the reforms until very recently.

Photo of Jonathan O'BrienJonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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We are not opposed in principle.

Photo of Joanna TuffyJoanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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They are just being politically opportunist. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy O'Sullivan, referred in depth to Sinn Féin statements on the issue which showed that the party was not opposed to the reform programme originally. The party's approach now is based purely on political opportunism and has a lot to do with its own connections within the trade union movement. Sinn Féin is not prepared to show leadership on an issue that concerns the future of young people in this country.

This debate is all about why we need a State exam and the idea that the junior certificate is a high-stakes examination. Why do we need a high-stakes exam for people who are 15 and who are going to sit the leaving certificate exam? That is the real high-stakes exam. Nobody here goes around saying "I got X, Y or Z in my junior certificate". When one goes looking for a job, it is all about the leaving certificate and if people do not have the leaving certificate, it is about the FETAC qualifications they have. If one visits community employment schemes - as I did recently - one finds that it is all about getting those who do not have a leaving certificate a FETAC qualification at level 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and so on. It is all about bringing them up through the FETAC levels. Other countries do not have a high-stakes exam for 15 year olds so why do we need one? There is no need for it and the idea that we need it is pure superstition.

The people who were dropping out of education and not doing the leaving certificate were the people who were being failed by the junior certificate most of all. If one listens to the debate involving leaders of the ASTI and the TUI, they argued that it is the other 80% who matter in the context of grades and so forth. This system is failing the people who do not do the leaving certificate and it is them about whom we should be thinking. Studies have been done on the transition from school into work or third level education. They have found that the junior cycle reforms that were introduced 25 years ago were not radical enough and therefore teachers just reverted and continued to teach for the exam. Students, at 14 or 15, were disengaging from the system, particularly young men from disadvantaged communities whom Sinn Féin would like to think it represents. Sinn Féin is very wrong on this issue.

Why do the unions - the ASTI and the TUI - not trust the professionalism of teachers? That question was referred to by Senator Healy Eames in an article in the Irish Independent today. The unions trust our teachers at primary level, in further education and at university but they do not trust second level teachers. Somehow they will be corrupt in a way that other teachers are not. What a damning indictment of the profession that is.

The Government's approach is the right one. There will be FETAC-level qualifications for those who complete the new reformed certificate. As has been said, there has been significant compromise already. If we want to do something to reform the system then these proposals are the way to go.

Photo of Dan NevilleDan Neville (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate and to evaluate our position with regard to the junior cycle examinations. It is 26 years since the present system was introduced and the changes in our society in that time have been vast. I came into the House around that time and there is no comparison between our society then and now. Enormous changes have taken place in our economy and particularly in opportunities for accessing data. Information is available at the touch of a button now. One does not need rote learning to obtain information. I remember using the Encyclopaedia Britannicaat school, which had an updated volume every year.

I have not seen a copy of the Encyclopedia Brittanicafor years because it has been made obsolete by modern technology.

Students need quality learning. Assessing information and subjects is one thing, and it is accepted that some degree of assessment will take place, but how does one assess the issues that assist young persons to deal with society in adulthood? How does one assess entrepreneurship, which is very important, and develop the qualities required to become an entrepreneur? How does one prepare a student for the pressures society imposes on young people and families? Society has changed dramatically since the current system was introduced.

In addition to giving students facts, education should prepare them for life which has become vastly different for this generation as compared to previous generations. Change is required in the assessment process in the junior cycle. Other issues must be included in the junior certificate and students must be involved and taught to use their critical faculties. The purpose of the new junior cycle is to make fundamental changes to learning and teaching in response to modern requirements and equip young people to deal with a rapidly changing society.

The new proposals will change the dynamic of the classroom. This cannot be done by external assessment only. The teaching profession can respond to the needs of classes and evaluate them on the basis of where the students are, rather than by comparing them with students from different schools. The new approach will result in a greater level of objectivity in examining the development of individual students and recognise the skills that cannot be assessed through an examination process.

The National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, NCCA, in collaboration with the Department of Children and Youth Affairs, consulted Dáil na nÓg on the reform of the junior cycle. It was interesting to note the response of the young people who make up Dáil na nÓg. It concluded that the majority of young people considered the junior curriculum to be too focused on examinations and the junior certificate examination to be a negative form of assessment which caused stress and was essentially a memory test.

5:45 pm

Photo of Michelle MulherinMichelle Mulherin (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak to the motion. Notwithstanding the differences between the teaching unions and Minister, the proposals for junior cycle reform are exciting and present an opportunity to think outside the box. The purpose of the reform is not to achieve rationalisation, such as has been required in all other Departments and areas of the public sector in recent years, but to introduce new ways of learning and measuring learning. It takes account of the changes in society since 1989, which seems like only yesterday. It is scary to think that time seems to pass much faster than in the past. This may be connected to the abundance of information and many accoutrements available to us now. We have computers and mobile telephones and new forms of communication. Immense changes have occurred.

Socially, young people have changed in the way they receive knowledge and information. We need to equip them with different types of tools for learning. One of the buzzwords we hear is that learning is "lifelong". Students do not stop learning when they learn poetry for an examination. Instead, they are empowered and enabled to embrace learning as a lifelong endeavour. There is something new to learn every day if one has the right disposition and attitude. This facilitates thinking outside the box.

The proposed junior cycle reform is an exciting development. I initially agreed with the arguments presented against the reform by teachers, perhaps because I am a little old-fashioned. Ireland has a fine education system as the achievements of the country attest. Young people who were educated under the current system and subsequently moved abroad are performing in an exemplary manner in many walks of life. I hope many of them will return to our shores and help us to build the country as the economy improves.

Despite the strike action proposed for tomorrow, I have no doubt that discussions can make progress. The Minister has an appetite for achieving a solution. Deputy Neville referred to the thought, focus, research and consultation that has been invested in the reform proposals by the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, the statutory body with responsibility for the curriculum. The NCCA also studied other jurisdictions with high levels of educational attainment and high performing education systems. I have no doubt a solution to the current problems will be found. Strike action is not the only way forward. This is a democracy and we must talk. Teachers are competent and capable of teasing out the issues. Many education professionals support the implementation of the proposed measures in respect of the junior cycle, as opposed to the leaving certificate cycle, which is a high stakes examination that leads to other paths in life.

Education is a lifelong process and our attitude to it can be affected, formed and assisted by the proposals for junior cycle reform. Given that teachers are the guardians of the education system and have done great service to the country, I remain hopeful that a resolution will be found and they will be given the resources they need to deliver the type of reform we would all like.

The amalgamation of small schools is an issue that needs to be addressed. The resources available to small schools for school transport and teaching resources are pitiful. These schools are basically left to their own devices. With enrolments declining, the amalgamation of small schools is causing acrimony in communities and among parents, patrons and boards of management. I am privy to information concerning a particular amalgamation and it appears people are being left to fend for themselves. While there are good reasons for amalgamations, support must be provided to the schools concerned. I ask the Minister to examine this issue because the current approach is unacceptable.

5:55 pm

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Measaim gur rún ríthábhachtach é seo agus is oth liom roinnt de na meoin atá mé tar éis cloisteáil cheana féin ó thaobh na caoi is féidir é seo a thabhairt i gcrích. Ar dtús báire, ní féidir riamh athrú chomh suntasach a thabhairt i gcrích muna bhfuil an dara dream is tábhachtaí taobh thiar de. Is iad na páistí atá ar scoil an dream is tábhachtaí i gcónaí. Má smaoiníonn tú siar, nuair a luadh seo don chéad uair, is faoi Rialtas Fhianna Fáil a luadh é agus bhí i gceist acu fáil réidh go hiomlán leis an teastas sóisearach. Ní raibh siad ag smaoineamh in aon chor faoi na páistí, bhí siad ag smaoineamh ar airgead a choigilt agus sin an tosaíocht mícheart. Lean an Rialtas seo an meon sin go dtí gur athraigh an tIar-Aire, an Teachta Ruairí Quinn, a intinn agus shocraigh sé an meon a athrú agus roinnt de na hábhair agus den scrúdúcháin a dhéanamh ar bhonn leanúnach. Dhein sé dearmad labhairt leis na múinteoirí agus iad siúd a labhraíonn ar son tromlach na múinteoirí, mar a bhí na ceardchumainn. Ní dhearnadh caint cheart leo.

Táimid den tuairim go bhfuil athruithe ag teastáil, ní hamháin leis an teastas sóisearach ach le go leor rudaí eile sa chóras oideachais freisin, toisc nach bhfuil sé go hiomlán foirfe agus ní bheidh sé riamh. Beidh athrú ag teastáil ann i gcónaí, ach sa lá atá inniu ann, san aois nuatheicneolaíochta seo, caithfimid athrú a dhéanamh, mar tá an teicneolaíocht seo ag déanamh múnlú ar aigne páistí ón gcéad bhliain nó ón dara bliain dá saol go dtí go bhfágann siad an scoil agus tá sé leanúnach. Nílimid tar éis athrú ina iomlán a dhéanamh sa tsochaí ná sa gheilleagar, ach cinnte nílimid tar éis an athrú sin a fheiscint sna scoileanna. Tá fadhbanna móra againn sna scoileanna agus má tá an Rialtas ag iarraidh déileáil le hathrú agus cuidiú le páistí sa chóras oideachais, ba chóir maoiniú ceart a dhéanamh ar na scoileanna sin. Ba chóir go mbeadh teacht ag gach uile páiste, ní hamháin sna meánscoileanna ach sna bunscoileanna chomh maith, ar ríomhraí de shíor. Sin an tslí atá an tsochaí imithe. Sin an tslí a bheidh ann amach anseo. Beidh páistí, agus an domhain go léir, ag brath ar ríomhraí.

Fós féin, níl teacht ag páistí go leanúnach ar ríomhraí. Níl teacht acu ar seomraí cuí chun staidear a dhéanamh, nó ranganna beag go leor chun an t-oideachas cuí a fháil. Má tá airgead acu, ar ndóigh, is féidir leis na tuismitheoirí íoc as seo agus íoc as ranganna breise. Ní tharlóidh sé sin faoin athrú seo. Cuideoidh an t-athrú seo leis na scoileanna atá airgead acu leanúint leis an apartheid atá ann faoi láthair. Má tá airgead ag duine, gheobhaidh siad an t-oideachas is fearr sa tír seo. Ní gá féachaint ar na ceantair ina bhfuil na scoileanna is fearr agus cé hiad na tuismitheoirí atá acu. Ní hé gur scoileanna príobháideacha iad go léir ach is scoileanna iad ina bhfuil breis airgid ag na tuismitheoirí, gur féidir leo infheistiú, mar ba chóir, i dtodhchaí na bpáistí. Ní tharlaíonn an t-infheistiú sin i gceantair bhochta, in ainneoin céard a dúirt Cathaoirleach an choiste oideachais níos luaithe. Níl fiú múinteoirí cuí ag na páistí sna scoileanna seo. Níl sin ag caitheamh anuas ar na múinteoirí. Uaireanta bíonn siad imithe. Tá athrú suntasach de shíor ag teacht ar mhúinteoirí i scoileanna ina bhfuil sé níos deacra orthu múineadh, toisc an stró breise atá orthu. Ní hé an réiteach ar an bhfadhb seo ná cur leis an stró atá ar na múinteoirí agus na scoileanna. Fáigh réidh leis na giorruithe agus ansin beidh maoiniú ceart ar na scoileanna. Is féidir ansin díriú isteach ar na hathruithe a bhfuil gá leo sa chóras, mar mura tharlaíonn sé sin, ní fiú tráithnín an t-athrú seo ach amháin go bhfuil an Rialtas ag cur leis an gcinedheighilt atá sa chóras oideachais sa Stáit seo faoi láthair.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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From conversations I have had with teachers and concerned parents, I am strongly directed to the view that this Government is intent on doing away with the junior certificate without proper consultation and that its key motivation, like that of its predecessor, is saving money. The Irish education system has many flaws but the impartiality of the State examinations is one of its virtues. The Government is attempting to railroad so-called reform without teacher support or even attempting to address their real and valid concerns.

The current Government seems not in the least bit fazed by strikes or, indeed, the threat of strikes. A further day of teacher strike action is scheduled for tomorrow, Thursday. We have also seen the Minister for Health do too little and do it too late to avert a nursing staff work to rule. The Minister for Education and Skills has equally failed to address the concerns of teachers in any meaningful way.

I appreciate that reforms of our education system are needed. That said, I fear the removal of external examination has the potential to undermine education standards up to and beyond the junior cycle level. It is most surprising there was no consultation with teachers prior to the announcement of the new arrangements for the examination of children up to the junior certificate level. In what world does that sound like a proper way to deal with major reform, namely, do away with a significant part of the system, refuse to take the ideas of providers of the system on board and then wonder why many are worried about the reform or, indeed, downright opposed to it?

On a related matter, I was concerned to read of the Department of Education and Skills plan to develop an individualised database of primary school children, with the inclusion of children's PPS numbers and with this information to be kept until the children reach 30 years of age. Is it truly necessary, I ask, to collect and store this information at all, let alone for such a long period, well beyond school leaving age, including well beyond the average third level age of completion?

On another related matter, the announcement by the Minister of the construction of four new schools through public private partnership has also deeply concerned me. This practice, I had thought, lay in the failed policies of the former Fianna Fáil-PD coalition Government. Perhaps I should not be too surprised that the Fine Gael-Labour coalition has decided to take a leaf out of its book. I understand that building has commenced on four new post-primary schools under schools bundle 4 of the Government's PPP programme. The Minister of State, Deputy Jan O Sullivan, has said the project was cost-effective, "in so far as we pay over a long period of time" and "also the fact that the maintenance is part of the programme".

The hand-over of the provision of schools to private companies is an expensive and cumbersome option. We have seen in the past that PPPs undertaken by the Department of Education and Skills turned out to be up to 19% more expensive than conventional procurement. The schools and sports pitches in this case will be funded by AIB Corporate Banking and German bank KfW IPEX-Bank. What sort of example are we setting our children? Only those truly lacking in insight would fail to see the total inappropriateness of this in an educational setting. This is the first rollout of construction of almost 3,000 new school places. I fear they will all take this approach.

Iarraim ar an Aire athsmaoineamh a dhéanamh. I appeal to the Minister and the Minister of State to take the opportunity to sit down with the relevant parties - directly with the teachers - to discuss the best way forward and to adopt a truly reform-based approach to our junior cycle. Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water by jeopardising parts of the education system that can be reformed and retained, the two not being in conflict with each other.

6:05 pm

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Ní bhíonn aon oibrí ag iarraidh dul amach ar ghníomhaíocht thionsclaíoch. Nuair a dheineann oibrí a leithéid, de gnáth ní bhíonn aon rogha fágtha aige nó aici. De ghnáth, bíonn an próiseas idirbheartaíochta spíonta. Tá cuma ar an scéal seo nach bhfuil an tAire Oideachais agus Scileanna ag éisteacht le múinteoirí na hÉireann - iad siúd atá i mbun teagasc daltaí na hÉireann. Tá an Rialtas ag tabhairt neamhaird do thuismitheoirí na hÉireann freisin.

Is léir go bhfuil faitíos ar dhaoine go bhfuil moltaí an Rialtais bunaithe ar ciorruithe siar in ionad ar athchóiriú an chórais. Níl éinne ar an taobh seo den Teach cinnte dearfa de na hargóintí atá déanta ag an Rialtas ar an bpolasaí seo. Conas a chuireann an polasaí seo daltaí i gcroílár an chórais? Conas atá an polasaí seo ar mhaithe le leas na bpáistí? Is léir nach bhfuil an buille buach ag an Rialtas ar an ábhar tábhachtach seo agus ní mór dóibh druidim siar anois chun macnamh géar a dhéanamh.

Bíonnn urlabhraí Shinn Féin, an Teachta Jonathan O'Brien, ag plé go tréan i gcónaí leis an Rialtas agus ag iarraidh orthu gan dul ar aghaidh in aghaidh tola na múinteoirí. Ba cheart don Rialtas gan an droch pholasaí seo a chur i bhfeidhm in aghaidh tola múinteoirí atá i mbun teagaisc ár bpáistí.

The position of the ASTI is that while teachers are open to using different modes of junior certificate assessment, they object to the change in the teacher's role from advocate to judge. This seems rational. If we think back to our schooling, would we have been treated better if the teacher had been a judge or advocate. Most of us would come to the same conclusion as the teachers. As educators, teachers are best equipped to advise us on the most advantageous way to teach and the best environment for children. They are also best equipped to explain to us the real implications of the change in the teacher-student relationship dynamic. Unions also have a capacity to provide us with details on the difficulties within the education system. There is a capacity problem within the system, as a result of the major damage caused in recent years at the coal face of the education system due to the austerity policies of the Government. These have, in the main, undermined the quality of the education delivered in schools.

The Minister's proposals cannot be analysed in a vacuum and must be viewed in the context of successive cuts in the primary and secondary sectors year after year for the past six years, even up to the 2015 budget in which the capitation grant was cut. These cuts did not need to be made. What makes the Minister's intransigence on this issue even more frustrating is that she is distracting attention from the significant points of agreement on reform of the junior cycle. The teacher unions were very clear on their commitment to having a first class junior cycle for all students and advocated a move away from dependence on final written examinations to the promotion of different types of assessment, including more practical projects and portfolio work. Rather than working with the education sector to progress an ambitious reform objective, the Minister has chosen to plant herself firmly in the mire of intransigence on the issue of assessment, yet she has failed to cobble together a half decent argument as to why she must take this approach. Surely, the Government's prime objective in implementing reform in the junior cycle is to enhance outcomes for students. This is a key point of agreement between educators and the Minister. On that basis, I appeal to the Minister of State present and the Minister to postpone further implementation of the junior certificate reforms and to return to the negotiating table until she reaches agreement.

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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I agree with many of those who have spoken tonight. There is no huge disparity between both sides of the House, but there are difficulties in the system. We are in favour of reform. Deputy Joanna Tuffy has suggested there has been a change in Sinn Féin's position, but we have not changed our position. I was spokesperson for Sinn Féin on education before Deputy Jonathan O'Brien and there is continuity in what we have been saying. We believe the system needs change. We also agree, as Deputy John Lyons said, that the idea of a child sitting an examination that might change the direction of their life or education on a day that might be a bad one for him or her needs to be changed. That is wrong. We agree, therefore, with the concept of continuous assessment, but the difficulty lies with where it stops. That is the difficulty for teachers also.

The Taoiseach said this morning that the only people who would suffer as a result of the strike tomorrow were pupils. He is wrong, as usual. It will affect not only pupils but also teachers. They will lose out. Parents will also be affected and may have to rearrange their work schedules. The strike will impact on people and teachers are not taking this step lightly. I genuinely believe they want to see the best process for their students. The issue is about the capacity of teachers to do their work. It is also about an examination system that is impartial, fair and standardised. It is about relationships. It is not only about the relationship between teachers and the Minister but about relationships within the classroom. It is about the relationship between the teacher, the pupil and his or her parents. The changes the Minister proposes to force through, against the advice of teachers, are going to change this dynamic hugely. We will have a situation where some students will say: "That teacher never liked me and that is why he gave me a bad mark." We can all imagine that scenario. This will put pressure on teachers, particularly those in a small school or community. The difficulty is not with the concept of continuous assessment. The teachers to whom I have talked and their unions do not have a problem with it. The difficulty concerns the final arbiter and examination of pupils' work. It also concerns the standard to be applied. People want a standard that will apply across the system. The advantage of the current system is that it provides for that standard.

We all agree that change needs to happen, but we disagree with some of the proposed elements of that change. As was said this morning, the Minister needs to step back and look again at the issue as we need a fresh approach. We all agree that we need to move away from rote learning. This is part of the curriculum for change and we do not have a problem with it. Students' future prospects should not depend on how they respond in one or two particular examinations. We agree that change needs to happen, but it must be managed and agreement must be sought on everything. This is an issue that must be discussed collectively. It is not just about a decision made by the Minister that this is the way forward. She needs to get teachers on board.

People ask why teachers are going on strike. They believe they are doing it for the benefit of their students. It is not a case of individuals within unions deciding on this approach. It has been voted on by the membership of the teacher unions. The collective view of the teachers, whom we imagine know their pupils and the system better than anyone, is that this is the only way forward. Everybody is on board and agrees that reform and continuous assessment are the right way forward. However, teachers believe the current proposals in regard to the final examination are not in the best interests of their students. They are concerned and not alone in their view that assessment of students by their teachers will undermine and detract from the system. That is why they are going on strike.

The Minister's proposal will also result in profound change by removing the ability of teachers to advocate on behalf of their students. This is another crucial issue, which has not been addressed by anyone. There are fears that this could result in the status of the certificate varying from school to school. There is common agreement that every student is entitled to a fair, impartial and transparent junior cycle examination system. Is the strike happening because the Minister does not want to be seen to be weak on this issue or does she genuinely believe this is the way forward?

There is still a lack of information about how the new framework will work on the ground. Teachers of English who are now required to implement the framework for junior cycle English specification received just one day of in-service training prior to September 2014. I welcome the fact that the Minister went into negotiations with teachers but there is intransigence and she is not responding to the concerns of teachers. In the days to come, instead of addressing the issue, the teachers will be blamed and painted into a corner as being unreasonable on the matter and that is not the case. Teachers are not doing this for selfish reasons but rather to ensure a high level of educational standards and positive student-teacher-parent relationships are maintained.

A strike is pending tomorrow but even at this late stage, there is still potential for change and the Minister needs to go back to the negotiations and talk to the teachers. Teachers are not in a vacuum. They are members of society as well. They have experienced in their own workplaces many of the cuts that have been introduced by the Government. While the strike is about the changes that are being forced on them, it is also about many of the enforced changes that were introduced in the education system. We all accept that the need for the goodwill of teachers is a key component of the system and, unfortunately, that goodwill has been tested repeatedly in recent years. In many cases, teachers are saying they have done enough in the context of extracurricular activity, changes to the system and doing short courses. Many schools are at breaking point and teachers are under huge stress not only in the context of resources but also in the difficulties being experienced in the community that are also reflected in the classroom. They say there is no sense coming from the Department of the difficulties being created in schools and the additional pressures on them.

Education policy should not be based on cherry-picking. The system needs to change. I ask the Minister to revisit the issue as a matter of urgency and to come at this difficulty even at this late hour with a new and fresh approach to reform. The Minister said last night that Sinn Féin has changed its position on this issue but we have not. We are in favour of reform, as are the teachers and many educationalists., but what the Minister is trying to force through is a step too far for teachers and it undermines the credibility of the system in their view. That is why they will go on strike tomorrow. My worry is the strike may escalate. Regardless of what happens tomorrow, the Minister will still have to go into negotiations with teachers. We cannot support changes to a system that lumps more work on overburdened teachers in schools. The goal is more about cutting departmental expenditure than about enhancing pupil education. The system proposed by the Minister will not work and she needs to wake up to that reality.

I welcome the fact that many Members have engaged in the debate. There is not a huge gap between what we are saying and what others are saying.

6:15 pm

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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We have been waiting on this debate for years and, therefore, I am delighted the motion is before the House. Everyone recognises the need for reform of the junior cycle. Everyone, including Members on the Opposition benches and members of the teacher unions, has bought into the idea of reform and agrees that reform is good. We welcome aspects of what is proposed by the Department but there are others about which we have concerns. It is unfortunate, however, that we are considering reform of the junior certificate examination against a backdrop of continuing cuts in education.

Teachers are being asked to implement a reform which the Minister believes will deliver improved educational outcomes against the background of diminishing resources and an increasing student population. She must listen to the teaching unions' professional opinion that the proposal to allow teachers to have the final say on their students' progression is not the best way to teach. Tomorrow thousands of teachers will take to the picket line. This has been building for some time. The teachers have tried to avoid this but they feel they have no option but to strike again and we extend our solidarity to them.

Sinn Féin calls on the Minister to postpone the implementation of the proposed reform until all outstanding issues have been resolved. We do so because parents and students place great faith in their teachers and entrust their children to them every day. We value teachers for delivering education to our children and recognise that they are highly professional and have the best interests of our children at heart. When teachers argue that this proposal is not in the interests of our children's education, we must listen to them. While the other issues raised in the talks between teaching unions and departmental officials can be resolved, something needs to give in the stalemate on continuous assessment. We cannot continue with the implementation of junior cycle reform against a backdrop of one-day stoppages by teachers and a refusal by the Department to move further.

Few doubt that reform of the junior cycle is needed so that students at second level receive the best education possible. However, the changes that have been proposed by the Government have been met with dismay by the teachers in delivering that education. They are the experts. We cannot forget this and we must listen to them. Their concerns are not driven by self-centred interest but by virtue that they want their pupils to receive the best education.

It can hardly be fair on students or teachers that assessment at junior cycle level is made by the teachers themselves. Surely this will lead to discrepancies in the education system, with results and standards varying from school to school and from teacher to teacher, and it will lead to allegations of favouritism and discrimination. This is not a fair system.

There is also the question of whether schools are adequately resourced to deal with a change of this magnitude to the junior cycle examination system. They are at breaking point and teachers are overstretched and beyond their full capacity. Austerity has meant that many schools have been pushed past the brink and some are unable to cope with the system that is in place, never mind the pressures a new system would likely heap on them. Our party calls on the Minister to revisit the proposed system and to put on hold the introduction of the new system until she has talked to teachers and parents groups and allayed their fears. We in Sinn Fein are not against change. We believe change is needed and we want what is best for students. I am struck by the dilemma this issue raises. I heard one teacher on radio discuss how he and his colleagues could be accused of favouritism, particularly in rural areas. For example, a teacher may golf with a student's father. People socialise together and share the same community together. Most people can relate to the teacher unions' suggestion regarding independent mediation and assessment. The practical difficulties teachers face in implementing continuous assessment need to be revisited.

I hope the issue can be resolved because it is in nobody's interest to have teachers out on strike.

6:25 pm

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I thank all the Deputies for their contributions to this motion relating to the reform of the junior cycle that was tabled by Sinn Féin. I had a chance to listen to most of the comments. There was much decent debate but also some ill-informed debate. It is quite clear that some people do not actually understand the changes we proposed or the great lengths the Minister has gone to since November in changing some of the proposals or making advances to make this easier for everyone to adapt. I am surprised that some people would speak on this without having checked the facts but I suppose that is what one will get.

Last night, the Minister set out clearly the Government's position on the rationale for the reform. Much of the talk was about continual and in-house assessment versus a State examination. If one listens to some of the speakers earlier and again last night, one will see that much of the evidence has proved that it is that final examination and the lack of change to the assessment model that has prevented real reform. There is proof of that. It is not just us making it up. That is not what we do over here. It is even referred to in some of Sinn Féin Deputies' own speeches. A lot of research shows that the lack of reform in assessment has delayed real reform to the detriment of our students and their future.

It has been mentioned here by some Members that this is to do with funding. Deputy Ó Snodaigh referred to the comment that Fianna Fáil wanted to end the junior certificate just to save money. That is not the proposal here. Again, the funding for education is going back up with an extra €60 million in the 2015 budget. The Minister secured the extra money needed for this reform with over €9 million being allocated for it and a commitment that resources that are needed to back this up would be found when teased out and properly discussed. It is not a case of cutting money and Deputy Ó Snodaigh should look at his own pre-budget submission because Sinn Féin at the time forgot to allow for demographics and increased student numbers. Under Sinn Féin's budget, the teacher-pupil ratio in primary schools would have gone up from probably 28 to 30 and up by about half in secondary schools. If Sinn Féin wants to quote resources, it should look at its budget as well. The increase in the budget will provide an extra 1,700 teachers this year as well as SNAs. In the context of the debate, €5 million has been allocated which is a total increase of over €9 million to back up this reform structure so it is not about cutting budgets. Let us park that argument. If Sinn Féin is really genuine, it should park the misinformation and discuss the real issues it is concerned with but it should not throw in stuff. It is not about funding.

I was surprised when Deputy Ó Caoláin said that the Minister has not made any meaningful changes. The Deputy is usually quite a reasonable person. The Minister has come a long way. We have gone from 100% internal assessment to 40%. Deputy Tóibín referred to projects. I know that this 40% will be projects. At least 10% or 15% of the 40% internal assessment will be independently verified so it is not a case of just teachers being able to abuse it either positively or negatively. It will be checked and audited so it is not a case of just throwing it over there. There have been many changes and we want to be very clear about that.

I will go through some of the changes. It will no longer be a school certificate. It will very clearly be a State certificate so that is a change in case Sinn Féin thinks there has been no meaningful change. The State Examinations Commission will issue the State certificate. In addition, the commission will sample significant quantities of students' work to verify the marks awarded. Therefore, no teacher should feel under pressure to give a certain award because they say "no, this is going to be independently checked and verified." Teachers will have to share and compare their marking of students within each school in an internal moderation process so it is not a case of one teacher making all the decisions and doing all the marking. Let us actually talk about the changes that have been proposed. We accept that there was great concern before autumn 2014 but the Minister has come a long way even as close as last week when she spoke to the unions about this and being willing to continue talking. The impression that has been given here is that the door is shut and there will be no more talks. That is not the case at all. If Sinn Féin is genuine about it, it should look at what has already been agreed and then discuss the rest but it should not claim that nothing has changed, nothing is happening or nobody is listening because that is not the case. Most people here are genuine about real reform and want it for the benefit of students because that is what we need.

Every speaker here has said that the current system does not deliver what students need. If Sinn Féin really believes that, let us genuinely talk about the reforms and the difficulties that are there. The main concern voiced by teachers relates to having to assess their own students. We have come a long way on that. Yet when one talks to teachers, one finds that not all of them really had a full conversation among themselves about that. When one teases it out, they see where it has moved and are wiling to talk more about it. Talks will help this and make a big difference. That is why it is pity there will be a strike tomorrow but so be it. I think talks will continue on this and the Minister is open to that. Hopefully, we will get the change we need because most people want this but there has been a lot of movement.

The junior certificate is not meant to be a forerunner of the leaving certificate. It is meant to be a chance to develop students' skills - skills they will need for a modern environment today that involves an awful lot of technology. There is an opportunity for all sorts of short courses ranging from mental health, coding for IT and local tourism if one is interested in tourism in one's area. History was mentioned earlier. There is a great opportunity here. If a significant historic event took place in one's locality, one can do a course on that. Hopefully, it will encourage students to become more engaged and to stay in education. There is plenty of evidence that students can very often lose interest in second or third year. This is about trying to adapt the system to keep their interest, keep them engaged and give them the skills they will need to do the leaving certificate and go on to higher or further education or a job. It is about giving them the skills and the current system does not do that.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Adams who has five minutes

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Five minutes.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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According to this, it is five and ten.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Seven and seven.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Molaim an tairiscint. In his contribution, the Minister spoke a few times about whether Sinn Féin is genuine about it. Let me tell him that Sinn Féin is responsible for steering the education system in the North through the most progressive, deep-rooted and radical reform of education since partition under huge opposition from conservative elements. First under Martin McGuinness, then under Caitríona Ruane and now under John O'Dowd, the positive impact of that reform is evident in the greatly improved and improving proportion of students achieving five GCSEs at grades A* to C. For boys, the increase over ten years has been 24%, while for girls, the increase has been 17%. The education budget has also significantly increased, as have the numbers of school building projects that are underway. Last year, the school budget increased by 20% to £1.1 billion. The Irish medium sector is the fastest growing sector in Northern Ireland with almost 3,000 students in 39 schools. More money has been invested in integrated education under Sinn Féin than at any time. During the Stormont House talks recently, we managed to secure £500 million for education for ten years.

All of these positive achievements are evidence-----

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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That was coming back from a cut.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Minister not to interrupt.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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That was what the Government was proposing along with the Tories but we stood up to them and ensured that we got that £500 million over ten years. That is what is possible when there is political will and when one has-----

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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Why is Sinn Féin trying to stop reform now?

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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That is what is possible when there is a vision, strategy and people with a commitment to make these things happen. That is what is desperately needed in this State and this Government.

When I raised this issue with the Taoiseach this morning, he acknowledged that teachers are professionals. That means that they are the specialists. They know about the job, career and vocation they have. Is iadsan na saoránaigh a chaith na blianta fada faoi oiliúint chun a bheith ina múinteoirí agus a chaith blianta eile ag cruinnithe taca lucht an chórais oideachais. Yet the Taoiseach and Minister have drawn a line and refused to listen to teachers' genuine concerns about being forced to assess 40% of their students' junior cycle work for certification purposes. Teachers have reiterated that their support for a first-class junior certificate for all students and given their support for a move away from their alliance on final written examinations and the promotion of different types of assessment, including more practical project and portfolio work.

I do not understand this because the reforms are broadly progressive in thrust and we support them. Why stop short? Why put these reforms in jeopardy with a demand that the teaching unions sign up to this assessment proposition? That effectively imposes a veto over the negotiations. I am sure the teachers do not want to strike. They know a strike will disrupt almost 330,000 students, 30,000 teachers and the families of both teachers and students. If implemented and properly resourced, the reforms, including proper assessments, could greatly enhance the school curriculum and the learning experience of students. The Minister dismissed the notion of funding and spoke about coming back from cuts.

6:35 pm

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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We increased the funding.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I ask her to refrain from speaking about coming back from cuts given what her Government has imposed on public services. Teachers are not being given the necessary supports in terms of continuous professional development and whole school in-service training. If these supports are not provided, we will be creating the potential for future difficulties. The Minister spoke about the need to listen to stakeholders and warned against any one party having a veto, unless that party is the Government. This has brought about the conditions for the strike which is due to take place tomorrow. Our view is that assessment of student exams should be impartial, external, fair and standardised.

As I noted this morning, the Minister will end up in negotiations again. We want agreement rather than confrontation but Ministers need to be problem solvers. A solution will only be found if the Minister goes into a partnership with the teaching profession, as opposed to digging holes and refusing to engage meaningfully. Given that talks will probably resume this Friday or next Monday, why not begin them now? She needs to make a real effort to sort this out so that the teachers can go back to doing what they do best, that is, teaching our children.

Photo of Jonathan O'BrienJonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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On behalf of Sinn Féin I thank everyone who contributed to this debate, from both sides of the House. Some of the contributions were very well made and raised issues on which we should reflect. The Minister in her contribution quoted from comments I made in this Chamber in November 2012 on the issue of junior cycle reform. She selectively quoted from my contribution to suggest my party is backtracking on our welcome of the proposals announced by the former Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Quinn. Nothing could be further from the truth. I double checked the Official Report for my comments, and reread the press release we issued on foot of the announcement by the former Minister. I will pass this documentation on to the Minister's office to make it clear that we have not changed our position.

One of the issues we flagged in the press release was internal assessment by teachers. We stated that it was a stumbling block which needed to be addressed. We have not changed our position on junior cycle reform by one iota. We have welcomed it from day one, just as we welcome the measures on the development of short courses, statements of learning, the establishment of priority learning units, more emphasis on group, portfolio and project work and the movement away from terminal examinations and rote learning towards continuous assessment. There is no difference between what the Minister is proposing and what we believe. I even checked some of our Ard-Fheis motions. Moving away from terminal examinations is a long-standing party policy. We do not agree with the pressures created by a terminal exam, whereby students undergo three years of post-primary education before being judged on their performance in exams which last two weeks. However, we differ from the Minister on her proposal for internal assessment as opposed to external assessment. The Minister of State, Deputy English, stated this is a question of in-house assessment versus a terminal exam. I argue this comes down to in-house assessment versus external accreditation.

The Minister and other Deputies paid tribute to the teaching profession. Even the Taoiseach stated during Leaders' Questions that teachers are highly professional people who should be trusted. I could not agree more. The problem, however, is that while the Minister is patting teachers on the back for their professionalism, she does not trust their word.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I trust them to assess their students.

Photo of Jonathan O'BrienJonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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She does not trust their word. The very people who she entrusts to educate our students are advising her, based on their educational expertise, that it is not in the best interest of students or educational outcomes to introduce a system whereby teachers assess their own students. This opinion is based on the expertise they have gained from doing their jobs over many years. The Minister suggests that the aim of these reforms is to move to a model of continuous assessment because, as she has indicated in replies to parliamentary questions, all of the research indicates that continuous assessment is preferable to terminal exams. If she truly believed that, she would embrace what the teachers are saying. They have repeatedly indicated their willingness to explore models of continuous assessment. They will buy into such a system but they will not accept a system of continuous assessment which requires them to be judge and jury of their own students. If the research indicates that educational outcomes can be improved by a system of continuous assessment, why not embrace that? Why is the Minister determined to introduce a system that places the onus on teachers to correct their own students' work?

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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That is part of the learning process.

Photo of Jonathan O'BrienJonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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We are discussing two educational principles. The Minister is trying to describe is assessment for learning, whereby teachers engage with their students on a continuous basis and offer feedback. It is not simply about rote learning and a final examination. I agree that we should move towards a system based on assessment for learning. However, by placing the onus on teachers to mark their own examinations, the teacher is introducing a system of assessment of learning.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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That is part of learning.

Photo of Jonathan O'BrienJonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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There is a big difference.

I appeal to the Minister, even at this very late stage, to postpone the introduction of junior cycle reform, engage constructively with the unions and remove the veto she has placed on negotiations by saying they must accept that 40% of work will be internally assessed. Let us move to a model of continuous assessment, but keep the external accreditation.

Amendment put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 73; Níl, 47.


Tellers: Tá, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg; Níl, Deputies Jonathan O'Brien and Sandra McLellan.

Níl

Amendment declared carried.

Question put: "That the motion, as amended, be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 73; Níl, 47.


Tellers: Tá, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg; Níl, Deputies Jonathan O'Brien and Sandra McLellan.

Níl

Question declared carried.

The Dáil adjourned at 9.20 p.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Thursday, 22 January 2014.