Dáil debates

Tuesday, 20 January 2015

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed)

Appointments to State Boards

5:15 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

6. To ask the Taoiseach if there is an agreed process in his Department for statutory board appointments; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37625/14]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

7. To ask the Taoiseach if there are protocols in his Department for appointments to State boards; the details of same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40963/14]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

8. To ask the Taoiseach the process in place in his Department for appointments to the boards of State agencies and organisations. [43817/14]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

9. To ask the Taoiseach the processes and protocols in his Department for appointments to State boards; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [47831/14]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 to 9, inclusive, together.

The National Economic and Social Development Office, NESDO, is the body corporate for the National Economic and Social Council, NESC, and the only State agency under the aegis of my Department. The board of the NESDO comprises the chair and deputy chair of the NESC, both of whom are civil servants from my Department serving in an ex-officiocapacity. Appointments to the National Economic and Social Council are made under section 14 of the National Economic and Social Development Office Act 2006, as amended by the National Economic and Social Council (Alteration of Composition) Order 2010. The NESC consists of 34 members, of whom 20 are appointed on the basis of nominations of other groups and organisations and six are civil servants - five Secretaries General and one assistant secretary - appointed in an ex-officiocapacity on the basis of functional responsibility. As Taoiseach, I have discretion over eight appointments to the board.

In respect of the National Statistics Board, section 18 of the Statistics Act 1993 sets out the composition of the board and the procedures for appointing members to it. The board consists of eight members, comprising the following seven persons appointed by the Taoiseach: five persons of proven ability and experience in the relevant fields, two of whom are nominated by the Taoiseach and three by such organisation or organisations as the Taoiseach considers to be representative of the users of official statistics and providers of information under the Act; an assistant secretary or equivalent or higher grade in the Department of the Taoiseach; an assistant secretary or equivalent or higher grade in the Department of Finance; and the director general of the CSO in an ex-officiocapacity.

Following a recent Government decision, all State board vacancies must be advertised openly on the State boards portal, www.stateboards.ie, which is operated by the Public Appointments Service. Appointees must meet specific and detailed criteria necessary for the effective performance of the relevant roles and will be processed by way of a transparent system designed and implement by the Public Appointments Service.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The last part of the Taoiseach's answer was the most relevant to the questions asked, which were about whether there was an agreed process in the Department of the Taoiseach for statutory board appointments. As we discovered during the Seanad by-election last year, the Taoiseach and his staff take a very active role in board appointments across the Government. That came out sharply during the aforementioned episode. I draw the Taoiseach's attention to a book written recently by Mr. John Walshe who was an adviser to the former Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn. Mr. Walshe was very specific about appointments to State boards. In his book which was a memoir of his experiences in the past four years he explained that Fine Gael advisers in Government Buildings were almost obsessed with Fine Gael getting its full share of people on State boards. The main interest of the Taoiseach's office in discussions with the Department of Education and Skills was not education but rather the number of board appointments Fine Gael could secure. I ask the Taoiseach to comment on this. The main engagement between his officials and advisers in Fine Gael and the Department of Education and Skills was not on education; rather, it was concerned with the number of Fine Gael appointments that could be made to State boards under the Department's aegis.

Will the Taoiseach explain why he thinks he has now radically reformed State appointments? He has been telling the House for the past three years that he has radically changed how people are appointed, but we know from Mr. Walshe's memoir and the McNulty affair that that is not the case. Is it not the truth that the overwhelming majority of appointments have involved people who were chosen for political reasons and then told to submit their applications? The Taoiseach created a new system but got around it to meet his need to appoint affiliates to boards. Will the new system put an end to the so-called two-for-one arrangement between Fine Gael and the Labour Party? I understand that for every appointment the Labour Party makes, Fine Gael gets to make two. According to Mr. Walshe, that is how appointments have been made since the Government came to power.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

All of us will at least support the broad principle that holding a position on these boards is an honour and an act of public service. The people on boards are there to serve citizens who depend on good governance. The controversy in which the Taoiseach was involved in the appointment of Mr. John McNulty to the board of the Irish Museum of Modern Art undermined this principle. Apart from the bad practice this cronyism represents, it also shows the Government's total disregard for the arts. The Taoiseach does not need me to tell him about the importance of promoting, defending and respecting the arts community. After dodging the issue of the appointment of Mr. McNulty, he eventually took full responsibility for the mess. The establishment of Uisce Éireann and its board and the millions of euro given to consultants further strengthened the belief cronyism and patronage were at the heart of the Government's appointments. Will the Taoiseach confirm that his Department is in compliance with the new guidelines? Have the rules been tightened and measures been introduced in order that a Minister can remove a board member who is failing to perform his or her duty or where a conflict of interest arises subsequent to his or her appointment? It is a question of citizens having confidence in how we discharge our responsibilities to them. Is the Taoiseach satisfied that the objectives set out are being met by the new guidelines in their implementation by the Government and, in particular, his Department?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is rich to hear Fianna Fáil raising issues about the stacking of State boards.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is not.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If memory serves me correctly - perhaps the Taoiseach can help my recollection - just before the last general election Fianna Fáil made 110 appointments to State boards in its last act.

There were a few more.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It was an extraordinary two fingers to the country as it left office. It will take a while before I can be convinced that the leopard has changed its spots in that regard.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It would be interesting to see what leopard the Deputy would bring with his totalitarian approach.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are in favour of elections to State boards.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You are in your backside.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The only way to have real transparency and accountability in these matters is by having elections to State boards. The McNulty affair indicates that political appointments continue to be made. While that power rests with Ministers or senior civil servants, there is an irresistible temptation for any party or Government to pack boards with people with whom they have a connection. The abysmal record of the last Government compared to more recent cases suggests things have not changed much. In Dún Laoghaire recently we witnessed an appointment to the harbour board. It happened out of the blue. Announcements are made and nobody is quite sure who makes the decision. Who are the members of the Public Appointments Service? I ask the Taoiseach to provide the names of the people concerned and explain the relationship between them and politicians. If we are to move towards the transparency and accountability that most people want, should we not have elections to State boards?

5:25 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The questions are irrelevant. We are in a very different space now and all appointments to any State board are first advertised on www.stateboards.ie. Any person anywhere in the country who wishes to apply for any of these positions must apply through that website, meet the criteria set out there, be vetted, and have his or her credentials verified as suitable for appointment to the relevant State board before anything further can happen. I refer Deputies to the guidelines on appointments to State boards which were published in November last year by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. They set out a very different position for the future for all of these appointments. They require that while www.stateboards.iebecomes a one-stop-shop for all of these appointments, candidates must specify relevant experience, educational and other qualifications, particular personal attributes and a range of skills they will bring to board membership. The portal also contains definitive current information on all statutory boards including legal basis, membership, terms of appointment, current vacancies, gender balance and other diversity indicators. For the information of Deputies, the guidance on appointments to State boards sets out all of these things.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Did the Taoiseach read John Walshe's book?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I did not see the whole programme either. I saw a bit of it and I saw enough as I was here at the time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach would have a unique insight into it. He would not have to watch it at all.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I was around for all of what happened except the demolition of the bird and the delights that took place under the tablecloth over the man's head. I do not know if that happened in reality or not.

Far be it for me to comment on the memoirs of the eminent Mr. Walshe who wrote and wrote well on educational matters from the other side of the fence for a very long time. I would not deign to comment on his memoirs.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach should have a look at it. It lays matters bare.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They are his personal views and we are now in a very different space. Thanks be to God, it is all vetted now by the Public Appointments Service the way that it should be.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They were inundated with calls from the Taoiseach's office to put people on boards.