Dáil debates

Wednesday, 2 July 2014

12:55 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order before we start Leaders' Questions, can the Taoiseach confirm that Deputy Quinn has resigned as Minister for Education and Skills or whether he received an indication to that effect?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is not a matter we can deal with.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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It is a point of order.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I would have thought-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Send Mr. Purcell out.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----under standing orders that the Taoiseach would be obliged-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is not-----

Photo of Peter MathewsPeter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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Give us a hint.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----to inform the House if he has received-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Resume your seat. We are dealing with Leaders' Question.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is a point of order.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not a point of order to ask a question.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I seek clarification from the Ceann Comhairle, if I may.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not a point of order. The Deputy cannot interrupt the business of the House to ask a question.

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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It is a point of information.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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If a Minister has resigned, is it not normal procedure-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not normal.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----that the House would be informed?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Not in my book. I do not know whether he has resigned.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Mr. Purcell will tell us.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps the Taoiseach can fill us in.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We need some order in this place.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate that.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I think the Minister deserves the courtesy of making the statement he is about to make.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Exactly.

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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On the plinth.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can we proceed with Leaders' Questions?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It does not answer my question. The primacy of Parliament is important-----

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Is that what Fianna Fáil did in the last Government?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----in terms of nominating Ministers.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please do not add to it.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Deputy Buttimer thinks he is still in opposition.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Stay quiet please.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government introduced a property tax without any provision for an ability to pay clause for the more than 90,000 people in mortgage arrears of more than 90 days, pensioners and the unemployed, who do not have the capacity to pay. Notwithstanding the legislation, the Government then decided to retain 80% of the revenue that was meant to go to local authorities to pay for the establishment of Irish Water over the last 12 months. Provision was made in the legislation to reduce or increase the property tax by 15% at local level. This is despite the fact that at the beginning of this year the property tax was doubled. It was an extraordinarily cynical move to double the tax and then have the Tánaiste commit the Labour Party to reducing it by 15% in 2015. We have now learned there is a significant split in the Cabinet on this issue. Government sources have stated that Fine Gael wants to charge local authorities more and when they get revenue from the property tax in 2015 they will be required to use it to pay for services and other public expenditure that central government will refuse to fund. In other words, people in urban areas who are paying higher rates of property tax will have to pay more for services that are devolved from central government. The source stated that Fine Gael, "are using the excuse of the property tax to reduce other grants. Their whole point is if the councils have it, the money should go back to the central exchequer, not the householder ... This is a sleight of hand to cut funding by the back door". Clearly that source must be a Labour Party Minister or member. This was confirmed on "Morning Ireland" this morning by the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are over time. I ask the Deputy to put his question.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister indicated that he supports the position of the Labour Party. Can the Taoiseach clarify whether the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government will set out or publish regulations on reducing the property tax by 15%? Does the Government not agree that the honest and simple way out of this mess is to agree at national level that the property tax should be reduced by 15% to provide for a uniform system across the country, without impairing or damaging the capacity of cash-starved local authorities to fund existing services without having to pay more?

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Labour Party thinks it is still in opposition.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am interested in the Deputy's remark about the primacy of Parliament. He certainly abdicated his responsibility in that regard on a number of occasions over the years.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach was going to change it.

Photo of Niall CollinsNiall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Tell us how you changed it.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am interested in Deputy Martin's new-found interest in a property tax, which he does not want now but on which he had a proposition to make it heavier than is currently the case.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach described that as immoral.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The introduction of a property charge is part of the process of developing a system that is as fair and equitable as possible for people to contribute to the provision of services and the running of our country. Increasing income tax as an alternative to a fair property charge would have a very negative impact on the economy, jobs and the general situation. The ESRI pointed out that the local property tax is six times more jobs friendly on labour than increases in income tax. The bigger picture is that the Government has decided that 80% of the collected local property charges should be retained in the local authority areas and that no council will be worse off than under the previous system. The members of the party that I represent will reduce property charges where it is possible to do so, although clearly that will not be possible in every case.

If we take Deputy Martin's view of having his proposition put in place, we will have a reverse situation whereby valuations of property values are lower in certain parts of the country than in the major cities which are experiencing pressure for houses and consequently an increase in their value. The issue is to work out the details of retention of 80% of local charges in each area, of no council being worse off under this system, starting off, and of the right of councillors to have responsibility devolved to them for making decisions arising from the law to reduce property charges, if that is their decision, to publish their budgets and run their services so that the people in the areas that councillors represent know what services they are getting for the taxes and charges they pay. That is the way transparency and accountability can come across. A number of those details remain to be worked out. I am sorry to see Deputy Martin proceeding on the basis of a gospel belief in what he reads in the newspapers. It is certainly not true.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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They were Government sources.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The sources cited in this particular newspaper have been accurate on quite a number of occasions. Let us call a spade a spade. It was a Government source. The Taoiseach failed to answer the question, not for the first time. He is living in a land of unreality because councils are being starved and they were shafted by the Government last year. It promised to give them 80% in 2014 but it gave them nothing. In advance of the local elections, the Tánaiste said the charge would be cut by 15%-----

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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It did not work.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----having doubled it a month earlier. The cynicism and dishonesty of that are clear.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There are degrees of cynicism.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Apparently Revenue needs to know by 30 September whether councils will reduce the rate.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can we have a question?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has not yet set out the regulations, even though this is provided for in the Finance (Local Property Tax) Act 2012. I asked the Taoiseach whether he is going to publish or set out regulations governing the issue of reducing or increasing property tax by 15%. Can we have a bit of honesty on what the Government is going to do? This is not something I am inventing.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry Deputy, we are over time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is allegedly a row between the Labour Party and Fine Gael.

They are saying it quite openly, and not just in the newspaper, as the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, confirmed that he supports the position of Labour backbenchers this morning.

1:05 pm

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The outgoing Minister.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps he is an outgoing Minister at this stage.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Have you put a question?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Taoiseach answer it? Will the Government intervene and facilitate the reduction across the board of property tax by 15%, as promised by Ministers, via the cental Exchequer allocation method? In other words, the Government can allocate the necessary funding to local authorities to enable them to reduce the tax by 15%. Will those regulations be set by the Minister?

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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A simple "Yes" or "No" will suffice.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has changed his tune in short time. First, he stated it was gospel that there is a serious split in the Cabinet over this and the place was in complete disarray.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Tell it to Ruairí Quinn.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It is bandaged up again.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Ask the Minister, Deputy Ruairí Quinn.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He now uses the word "allegedly". Something has struck him in that respect. The law of the land is that the councillors are the elected representatives of the people. The Deputy's party refused to give them any responsibility and centralised everything here in Dublin. The law indicates that the elected representatives of the people, whatever shade of opinion they have-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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They were given nothing last year.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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They are entitled to reduce the property charges by 15% if they so wish. It is a matter for them to make that decision.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, it is not.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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They are governed by how much is given to them.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies, please.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government has already decided that 80% of the charges collected will be kept in each local authority area. It is possible in a number of local authorities for councillors to make that decision because of the number of houses and their valuation, leading to the property charges which are collected. There was 94% compliance in 2013, with €291 million collected-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Answer the question.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is 91% compliance so far in 2014.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are over time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Minister set the regulations?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The details are that no council will be worse off, with 80% of what is collected retained.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will he publish the regulations?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is an alternative to increased income taxes and the detail of how it is worked out is still to be decided by the Government. There is no big division, as the Deputy has argued.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Tóibín on behalf of Sinn Féin.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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What about the revolting Labour backbenchers?

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is still being decided.

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should watch out for his own party.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have called Deputy Tóibín. Do Deputies understand people tune in every day to listen to Leaders' Questions and they are not interested in people shouting their heads off?

Photo of Sandra McLellanSandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow Deputy Tóibín to ask his question.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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It is an interesting insight into the state of disarray within the Labour Party when Deputy Quinn is announcing his resignation as Minister for Education and Skills two days before the culmination of a leadership battle. His giving a resignation speech at the same time as Leaders' Questions is also a snub to the Taoiseach.

I have a question regarding Irish Water. There are 750,000 people in the State living in poverty, one person in ten cannot afford food and 13% of the population went without purchasing fuel last year. At the same time the Taoiseach is seeking to enforce a water tax on the same people. With what can only be described as contempt for Dáil oversight, Irish Water has again failed to provide details of a new water tax. The appearance of representatives of the Commission for Energy Regulation at yesterday's meeting of the environment committee was farcical. The committee's democratic function was obstructed as it was denied the vital information by which it seeks to make decisions, and despite the regulator requesting information from Irish Water at yesterday's meeting, the company failed to supply the required documentation. That is par for the course.

The establishment of Irish Water has been shrouded in secrecy from the start and the Dáil is being denied information on a consistent basis by the Government. As a result, citizens do not believe a word from the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan. There is widespread belief now among citizens that the majority of households will pay a charge much higher than the €240 figure suggested.

Photo of John HalliganJohn Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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Absolutely.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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That will happen because Irish Water will be forced to pay the full cost of the company and the provision of water to the citizens as required by the EU directive. When will citizens and households know how much they must pay for water? Will the Taoiseach tell the Dáil categorically that, as he previously stated, the average charge per household will not exceed €240?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes, I can.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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Clarity at last.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The direction given by the Government through the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to the regulator is that the average metered charge per household will be €240 per year or €60 per quarter. The second element of that instruction is that children's use of water will be free. It is a matter for the regulator to determine the allowance. I have seen allowances have a range in different reports and surveys but the important point is that the direction from the Government, through the Minister, to the regulator is very clear. There will be an average metered charge of €240 per year and children's use will be free. That will not change.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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The problem is there seems to be difficulty between the regulator and Irish Water. Irish Water has asked the regulator to reduce the free water allowance for children, which would inevitably lead to a much higher charge for families.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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People will not be able to wash at all.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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There is widespread concern that the 38,000 litre per child free allowance may be ditched and the regulator still has not given full details of medical conditions that would allow certain users not to be charged for their supply. The clear message through the local and European elections to the Taoiseach's party and the Labour Party was that tens of thousands of families are teetering at the edge of existence, with the property and water charges pushing individuals over the edge. Recently we have seen people protesting right around the country and we have seen the suspension of Irish Water meter installations.

Will the Taoiseach confirm there will be a 38,000 litre allowance per child? Will he confirm that the oversight of the Oireachtas committees will be guaranteed? Will he confirm that the position being played out between the regulator and Irish Water will be put to an end, so there can be no more confusion on the issue?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The policy decision made by the Government is very clear and will not change. It is a policy direction to the regulator, which determines the final outcome in these cases. The average metered charge per year will be €240, with children's usage free. Thanks to the green flag movement over approximately the past decade and a half, there is now a generation of young people and children growing up with a very different view from their parents on water wastage. I have seen that in my own household.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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The State wastes most water.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The assessments for the use of water by children have certainly changed since the original assessments were carried out based on water usage in a different jurisdiction as we did not have water meters here at all. The regulator will determine that amount.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It could be less than 38,000 litres.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In the process of the public consultation which took place, I would have thought the Oireachtas committee could have called the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government before it to discuss the matter. The public consultation took place and it was quite comprehensive. The public consultation did not result in any change of policy or direction from the Government to the regulator.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Irish Water did not even make a submission. Do not play with words.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government set the direction very clear and the regulator will make the final decision.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Uisce faoi thalamh.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Irish Water is entitled to make its case but the Government direction or instruction has not and will not change.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Irish Water's downtown office.

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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When the drugs issue was mentioned in the past, it was generally synonymous with heroin and Dublin's inner city, but that has changed drastically. Every city and town in the country, as well as many villages, has been invaded by drugs. Those communities, individuals and families have seen the devastating consequences of drugs. I acknowledge the progress which has been made since those days when the late Tony Gregory was a lone voice on the drugs issue. We saw the establishment of local drugs task forces and national bodies, as well as the national drugs strategy, and there was funding for projects and special community employment schemes. The Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, was also set up.

Very valid points were certainly made, such as that money going to the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, from drug-related crime should have been directed towards those communities most affected by drugs. There are outstanding issues, and the National Drugs Strategy 2009-2016 recognises the importance of an inter-agency approach and that people from various Departments and agencies would attend meetings. Due to cuts, those agencies and Departments are unable to meet those commitments, which is a serious issue. The regional drugs task forces were given large areas to cover but without the necessary resources. We have been waiting over two years for appropriate legislation on zimmos and other pills because gardaí are helpless to do anything about them. There are serious problems with dual diagnosis. People who present with addiction, mental health issues and homelessness go from one agency to another before their problems are addressed.

Part of the problem has been that this issue was the remit of a Minister of State who also has to deal with several other concerns. The issue has moved home. It started in the Department of the Taoiseach, went to the Departments responsible for tourism and sport, and community and rural affairs and is now with the Department of Health. One can only conclude that drugs and related issues are very far down the list of priorities. Where does the Government stand on this issue? How serious a commitment is it giving to the national drugs strategy? In his answer the Taoiseach might consider the fact that the drugs projects have suffered 38% cuts since 2008. When decisions are being made about Ministers, will the Taoiseach consider the idea of appointing a Minister of State whose sole remit would be drugs?

1:15 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The question about Ministers is like the story of the loaves and fishes. No matter what we do we will not have enough.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach could create a few more for the lads.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The issue the Deputy raises is very important and I commend all the agencies and organisations working with the Garda and CAB to detect, intercept and deal with those in the business of providing drugs, and those agencies and organisations which work with those who suffer the consequences of drug addiction, use and abuse.

The Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, with responsibility for housing, Deputy Jan O’Sullivan, attended a Cabinet sub-committee on Monday where there was an intensive response from Dublin City Council on homelessness. I can give Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan the details of that.

I do not have all the facts and figures for the agencies the Deputy mentioned. Irrespective of cutbacks, it has been possible for agencies and departmental staff to attend the meetings where decisions are made. Deputy O’Sullivan mentioned cutbacks of 38% in some areas. If she gives me the details she is presenting, I will arrange for it to be discussed at the next meeting of the Cabinet sub-committee which deals specifically with this, the national drug strategy, local organisations and agencies dealing with drugs and their consequences, to see if we can make an impact taking into account some of the issues the Deputy raises.

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I will certainly do that. Alcohol is now being integrated in the substance misuse strategy. Many of us think that it should have been there all along. We are aware of recent reports about this country’s unhealthy relationship with alcohol and the cost of that. The task forces with shrinking budgets must take on the alcohol initiative as well.

While I know everybody is at risk of drug abuse, there is a proven link between disadvantage and drug abuse. Disadvantaged communities are more likely to be exposed to drugs. There is inequality in access to rehabilitation services. For some in those communities, the special community employment scheme, SCE, is their only form of rehabilitation. Between 2010 and 2011 there was an 8% increase nationally in drug-related deaths and a 50% increase in the Dublin area.

My constituency colleagues on the Government side and I have seen children as young as ten dabbling in drugs, being used by dealers as runners and look outs. Funding has been given to the youth projects and through the young people’s facilities and services fund. The fund should be constantly monitored to ensure the money goes where it is directed. When it was set up in 1998, it was directed at those children most at risk from drugs. Can we see a commitment to that funding continuing also?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Catherine Byrne has on several occasions raised the issue of young children having access to, and dabbling with, drugs and their consequences. This is a social issue of enormous consequence. The figures Deputy O’Sullivan mentions of those who die or have so many health and psychological difficulties speak for themselves. In many cases we are trying to catch up and in others trying to prevent the problem. The CAB, the drug squad and the national drugs strategy attempt to make the country as clean as possible of use and abuse of drugs. In the particular areas the Deputy refers to, the problem is acute. I give her a commitment that if she supplies me with the details she has the Cabinet will take it up through the specific committee to deal with it.