Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I move:

That, with effect from 5th November, 2013 and notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, the following amendments be made to the Standing Orders of Dáil Éireann relative to Public Business until further notice in the 31st Dáil:

(a) Quorum necessary to constitute meeting of Dáil on fortnightly Fridays

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 19:

'19. (1) The quorum necessary to constitute a meeting of the Dáil, other than a meeting at which business comprehended by Standing Orders 88(2) and 117A is to be considered, shall be twenty members. [See S.O. 77]

(2) The quorum necessary to constitute a meeting of the Dáil for the purpose of considering business comprehended by Standing Orders 88(2) and 117A shall be ten members.';

(b) Quorum not to apply while any fortnightly Friday business under consideration

In Standing Order 20, the insertion of ', or a Committee report under Standing Order 88(2),' before 'is under consideration';

(c) Earlier start time

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 21:

'21.(1) Unless the Dáil shall otherwise resolve--

(a) the Dáil shall meet every Tuesday at 2 p.m.; every Wednesday and Thursday at 9.30 a.m.; and, pursuant to Standing Order 28(3), on fortnightly Fridays at 10 a.m., according to a schedule to be issued by the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach in the last week of the summer session each year, and

(b) the proceedings on any business under consideration shall be interrupted (or if the Dáil be in Committee, progress shall be reported and leave asked to sit again) and the Dáil shall adjourn--

(i) every Tuesday and Wednesday at 9 p.m.,

(ii) every Thursday at 5.30 p.m., and

(iii) on fortnightly Fridays at 2 p.m.:

Provided that if an Order shall have been made under Standing Order 22, that the hour at which business is to be interrupted be other than that specified in this paragraph, the provisions of this Standing Order with such substitution shall otherwise apply.

(2) If, at the time appointed for the interruption of business as provided in paragraph (1)(b) of this Standing Order, the closure is moved or proceedings under the closure are in progress, the Ceann Comhairle will not effect such interruption until the proceedings under the closure, and on any such further motion as is specified in the Standing Order as to closure [S.O. 66] have been completed.

(3) If, at the time appointed for the interruption of business as aforesaid,

(a) a division is in progress or has been ordered to be taken, or

(b) the debate on an item of business has concluded,

the interruption shall not take place until after the decision has been declared from the Chair. If the decision is on an amendment, or on an amendment to the amendment, after such declaration the Ceann Comhairle shall proceed to put in proper sequence the Questions necessary to bring proceedings to a conclusion.';

(d) Suspension of sitting

In Standing Order 23, paragraph (1), the substitution of 'for 60 minutes immediately following topical issues, save where the Dáil sits at 2.30 p.m.,' for 'from 1.30 p.m. to 2.30 p.m.';

(e) Leaders' Questions

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 27:

'27. (a) Unless the Dáil shall otherwise order on motion made by a member of the Government or Minister of State, Leaders' Questions shall be taken--

(i) at 3.15 p.m on Tuesdays, and

(ii) at 12 noon on Wednesdays and Thursdays, or immediately preceding the Order of Business on a Wednesday where the Dáil sits at 2.30 p.m.

(b) During the time allowed for Leaders' Questions, the Ceann Comhairle may permit, at his or her discretion, a brief question not exceeding two minutes from each Leader in Opposition to the Taoiseach about a matter of topical public importance and in respect of which the following arrangements shall apply:

(i) the Taoiseach shall be called upon to reply for a period not exceeding three minutes,

(ii) the Leader in Opposition who asked the original question may then ask a brief supplementary question not exceeding one minute,

(iii) the Taoiseach shall then be called upon to reply in conclusion for a period not exceeding one minute.

(c) The Taoiseach may nominate another member of the Government to take Leaders' Questions in his or her absence. On Thursdays the provisions of this Standing Order shall apply with the substitution of “Tánaiste” for “Taoiseach”.

(d) In this Standing Order, “Leader in Opposition” means the leader of a group as defined in Standing Order 120(1): Provided that the Leader of a party which is a group under Standing Order 120(1)(a) shall have precedence over the designated Leader of a group recognised under paragraph (1)(b) of that Standing Order.';

(f) Topical Issue Debate

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 27A:

'27A. (1) Any member may give notice in writing of a matter which he or she wishes to bring forward for consideration as a topical issue, and this may include matters of a national or international nature. Such matters shall be considered on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday on which the Dáil meets.

Provided that topical issues must reach the Clerk not later than--

(a) 10 a.m. on a Tuesday,

(b) 4 p.m. on a Tuesday for Wednesday, or 10 a.m. on a Wednesday where the Dáil sits at 2.30 p.m., and

(c) 10 a.m. on a Thursday.

(2) The Ceann Comhairle shall select a maximum of four such matters for consideration on each Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday: Provided that the matters selected must relate to public affairs connected with a Department of State or to matters of administration for which a member of the Government or Minister of State is officially responsible (including bodies under the aegis of a Department of State in respect of Government policy).

Provided further that where, in exceptional circumstances, the member of the Government or Minister of State officially responsible for the matter is not available on the day, the available member of Government or Minister of State shall so inform the member who has given notice immediately prior to the taking of the matter. The available Minister shall also inform the member who has given notice of the date on which the officially responsible member of the Government or Minister of State will be available. The member who has given notice shall then be given the option to--

(a) defer consideration of the matter to the day on which the officially responsible member of the Government or Minister of State will be available, when it will be the first matter to be taken, or

(b) proceed with the matter on the day with the participation of the available member of the Government or Minister of State;

Provided further that where a matter has been deferred to a particular day, the number of matters to be selected on that day shall be reduced according to the number of deferred matters.

(3) Matters selected by the Ceann Comhairle shall be considered--

(a) on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, immediately after the order of business, or on a Wednesday where the Dáil sits at 2.30 p.m. immediately following Questions to a member or members of the Government, and

(b) on Thursdays, as the last item of business.

(4) Consideration of each topical issue shall consist of--

(a) a statement by the member who has given notice which shall not exceed 4 minutes,

(b) a statement in reply by a member of the Government or Minister of State, pursuant to paragraph (2), which shall not exceed 4 minutes,

(c) a further statement by the member who has given notice which shall not exceed 2 minutes, and

(d) a concluding statement by the member of the Government or Minister of State concerned which shall not exceed 2 minutes:

Provided that where the Ceann Comhairle has selected a matter of which valid notice has been given by more than one member and he is of the opinion that the number of members sharing time would result in insufficient time for each member to make an adequate contribution, he may, subject to paragraph (2), select fewer than four matters and aggregate the time that would ordinarily be assigned to two or more topical issues;

Provided further that--

(i) where the time allowed for such matters is aggregated, the total times allowed for the initial and further statements of members who have given notice, and of the member of the Government or Minister of State replying, shall be adjusted at the discretion of the Ceann Comhairle, and

(ii) the total time allowed for consideration of topical issues on any day shall not exceed 48 minutes;

Provided further that where topical issues on the same matter have been aggregated, and where the member of Government or Minister of State who is officially responsible for the matter is not available on the day, if any of the members who have been selected on the matter wish it to be deferred, then the matter shall be deferred;

Provided further that the Dáil shall not divide on any matter arising out of consideration of topical issues.

(5) A list of the matters in respect of which notice has been given under this Standing Order and the name of the member concerned in each case shall be printed in the Official Report of the Debates.

(6) The Ceann Comhairle shall have regard to requests made pursuant to Standing Order 40A(7) in selecting matters in accordance with this Standing Order.';

(g) Routine of Business

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 28:

'28. (1) Subject to Standing Order 26, the ordinary routine of business in the Dáil on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays shall be as follows:--

1. *Questions, Leaders' Questions and topical issues.

2. Private Business.

3. Public Business--

(i) At the commencement of Public Business--

(a) Motions in relation to reports from Committees given priority under Standing Orders 102A, 105, 106 or 107.

(b) Other reports from Committees.

(c) Messages from the Seanad.

(d) Bills from the Seanad.

(e) Initiation of Bills.

(f) Notices of Motions.

(ii) Orders of the Day.

(2) Other than when the Dáil meets to consider business comprehended by Standing Orders 88(2) and 117A, the ordinary routine of business in Private Members' time [S.O. 117] shall be as follows:--

(i) Adjourned Business given priority under Standing Orders.

(ii) Other Business ordered.

(iii) Other Notices of Motions.

(3) When the Dáil meets on fortnightly Fridays in accordance with Standing Order 21(1)(a), to consider business comprehended by Standing Orders 88(2) and 117A, business shall be confined to--

(i) a Bill selected pursuant to Standing Order 117A, and

(ii) a Committee report selected pursuant to Standing Order 88(2), or

(iii) on alternate fortnightly Fridays, or in the event no Committee report is available for consideration, two Bills selected pursuant to Standing Order 117A.';

*Subject to the provisions of Standing Orders 27, 27A and 36.

(h) Changed deadlines for Questions

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 33:

'33. Questions to a member of the Government must be in writing. A Question must reach the Clerk not later than 11 a.m. on--

(a) the third day preceding the day on which it is to be asked if an answer is to be provided in the Official Report of the Debates [S.O. 40(2)],

(b) the fourth day preceding the day on which it is to be asked if it is nominated for priority [S.O. 39], or

(c) the fifth day preceding the day on which it is to be asked if it is an ordinary oral Question [S.O. 38],

not reckoning a Saturday, Sunday, or public holiday.

Provided that Questions relating to matters of urgent public importance may, by permission of the Ceann Comhairle, be asked on private notice. Such Questions must be in writing and must reach the Clerk not later than 2.30 p.m. on the day on which they are to be asked.';

(i) Questions not to be repetitive of topical issues

In Standing Order 35, in paragraphs (3) and (4), the deletion of 'or in response to a matter raised under Standing Order 27A';

(j) Time for Questions

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 36:

'36. (1) Unless the Dáil shall otherwise order on motion made by a member of the Government or Minister of State--

(a) Questions for oral answer to the Taoiseach may be taken for one hour after Leaders' Questions on Tuesdays.

(b) Questions for oral answer to other members of the Government shall be taken--

(i) from 2 p.m. to 3.15 p.m. on Tuesdays, and

(ii) from 9.30 a.m. to 10.45 a.m. on Wednesdays and Thursdays, or from 2.30 p.m. to 3.45 p.m. on Wednesdays where the Dáil sits at 2.30 p.m.:

Provided that Questions asked on private notice may be taken by permission of the Ceann Comhairle and shall be asked for 30 minutes immediately after the order of business on Tuesdays, for 30 minutes immediately before Private Members' time on Wednesdays, and during the thirty minutes before the taking of topical issues on Thursdays.

(2) The time allowed for Questions nominated for priority for any one day shall not exceed thirty minutes.';

(k) Members may not nominate Questions in the names of other members, and members must be present to introduce Questions for oral answer

In Standing Order 38--

(a) the substitution of the following for paragraph (1)(ii):

'(ii) No member may put down Questions in the name of another member. No member may put down more than two Questions to each member of the Government for answer on any one day: Provided that a member nominated by a group in Opposition may put down a maximum of five Questions.';

and

(b) the insertion of the following new paragraph after paragraph (1):

'(1A) A Question shall be put by the member in whose name the Question appears on the Order Paper rising in his or her place, indicating the number of the Question on the Order Paper and giving a brief introduction of no more than 30 seconds to the Question, otherwise the Question will not be answered orally. Where Questions put down for oral answer are grouped for reply, the introduction to the group of Questions shall be given by one member only, that being the member with the first Question in the group, or if that member is not available, by the second member, and so on.';

(l) Standing Order 41 deleted

The deletion of Standing Order 41.

(m) Repetition not to apply in relation to topical issues

In Standing Order 56, paragraph (1), the insertion of ': Provided that in determining whether a discussion is out of order on the ground of repetition, the Ceann Comhairle shall disregard discussion of any matter during the debate on a Topical Issue' after 'preceding six months';

(n) Drafting amendment to Standing Order 57(4)

In Standing Order 57, paragraph (4), the substitution of 'Standing Order 27A' for 'Standing Order 21';

(o) Post-enactment consideration of legislation

In Standing Order 82A, paragraph (4), the insertion of the following after subparagraph (e):

'(ea) reports under Standing Order 141A by members of the Government or Ministers of State on Bills which have been enacted in the previous 12 months,';

(p) Power to require reports for post enactment consideration of legislation

In Standing Order 83, the insertion of the following after paragraph (6A):

'(6B) power to require that a member of the Government or Minister of State who is officially responsible for the implementation of an Act shall attend before the Select Committee in relation to consideration of a report under Standing Order 141A;';

(q) Debating of reports from Committees: fortnightly Fridays

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 88:

'88. (1) Where a Standing, Select, Special or Joint Committee, as the case may be, makes a report containing a request that the report be debated by the Dáil, a motion to consider the report shall, as soon as practicable after the adoption of the report by the Committee, be placed on the Order Paper: Provided that any such motion which is not moved within twelve months from the date on which it was first placed on the Order Paper shall be deemed to have lapsed, but without prejudice to the right to put down such motion again.

(2) The Committee Chairman may give notice that he or she wishes to bring forward for consideration on a fortnightly Friday in accordance with Standing Order 21(1)(a), a Committee report that has been laid before the Dáil and in respect of which a motion to consider the report is listed on the Order Paper: Provided that such notice shall be received by the Clerk not later than 11 a.m. on the fourth preceding Friday. Further provided that, once notice has been given in respect of a report for any fortnightly Friday, such notice will stand for each subsequent fortnightly Friday*, until the report is selected for consideration or the Committee Chairman indicates to the contrary.

(3) Where notice from more than one Committee has been received in respect of any fortnightly Friday, the report to be considered shall be determined by lottery, at which members may attend. Provided that such lottery shall take place on the fourth preceding Friday.

(4) The time allowed for the debate on the motion to consider the report shall not exceed a period of two hours in the aggregate.

Provided that the following time limits and sequence of speakers shall apply to the debate:

(a) the speeches of--

(i) the member proposing the motion who shall be the Chairman of the Committee or another member of the Committee nominated in his or her stead, and

(ii) a member of the Government or Minister of State, who shall outline the Government's response to the report, including the Government's response to any recommendations contained therein,

shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case;

(b) the speech of each other member called upon shall not exceed 10 minutes;

(c) a member of the Government or Minister of State, who may speak twice, shall be entitled to make a speech immediately before the reply by the proposer, which shall not exceed 10 minutes;

(d) the proposer shall be entitled to not more than 10 minutes for a speech in reply; and

(e) all members shall be entitled to share their time.';

*Subject to the provisions of Standing Order 28(3).

(r) Allocation of time between Government business and private members' business, and divisions on fortnightly Fridays to be postponed

In Standing Order 117--

(a) the substitution of the following for paragraph (1)(b)(ii):

'(ii) on fortnightly Fridays in accordance with Standing Order 21(1)(a), to one Bill initiated by a private member, selected for consideration pursuant to Standing Order 117A, and one Committee report, selected pursuant to Standing Order 88, or, on alternate fortnightly Fridays or in the event no Committee report is available for consideration, to two Bills initiated by private members and selected pursuant to Standing Order 117A.';

and

(b) the insertion of the following paragraph before paragraph (2):

'(1A) The Ceann Comhairle shall, where a division has been demanded on a sitting on a fortnightly Friday in accordance with Standing Order 21(1)(a), postpone the taking of such division until immediately after the Order of Business on the next day on which the Dáil shall sit.';

(s) First Fridays: private members' Bills

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 117A:

'117A. (1) Any member other than a member of the Government or Minister of State may give notice that he or she wishes to bring forward for consideration, on fortnightly Fridays in accordance with Standing Order 21(1)(a), a Bill that has been initiated by him or her and that is listed on the Order Paper at Second Stage or order for Second Stage: Provided that such notice shall be received by the Clerk not later than 11 a.m. on the fourth preceding Friday. Further provided that, once notice has been given in respect of a Bill for any fortnightly Friday, such notice will stand for each subsequent fortnightly Friday until the Bill is selected for consideration or the member sponsoring the Bill indicates to the contrary.

(2) Where notice from more than one member has been received in respect of any fortnightly Friday, a Bill to be considered shall be determined by lottery, at which members may attend. Provided that such lottery shall take place on the fourth preceding Friday.

(3) Any Bill to be considered on a fortnightly Friday pursuant to this Standing Order and Standing Orders 28 and 117 shall be set down for Second Stage and the time allowed for the debate on the motion for second reading shall not exceed a period of two hours in the aggregate:

Provided that the following time limits and sequence of speakers shall apply to the debate:

(a) the speeches of--

(i) the member proposing the motion for the second reading of the Bill, and

(ii) a member of the Government or Minister of State,

shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case;

(b) the speech of each other member called upon shall not exceed 10 minutes;

(c) a member of the Government or Minister of State, who may speak twice, shall be entitled to make a speech immediately before the reply by the proposer, which shall not exceed 5 minutes;

(d) the proposer shall be entitled to not more than 10 minutes for a speech in reply; and

(e) all members shall be entitled to share their time.';

(t) Time for Bills on fortnightly Fridays, and putting the question on private Members' business

In Standing Order 121--

(a) in paragraph (2), the substitution of 'The time allowed for the debate on the motion for the second reading of a Bill initiated by a private member, other than a Bill to be considered on a fortnightly Friday [See S.O. 117A], shall not exceed a period of six hours in the aggregate.' for 'The time allowed for the debate on the motion for the second reading of a Bill initiated by a private member, other than a Bill to be considered on the first Friday of a month [See S.O. 117A], shall not exceed a period of six hours in the aggregate.';

and

(b) the insertion of the following paragraph after paragraph (2):

'(2A) If a member claims to move, “That the question be now put” prior to the expiration of the said periods in paragraphs (1) and (2), such motion shall not be allowed if it appears to the Ceann Comhairle that it is an infringement of the rights of a minority, or that the question has not been adequately discussed, or that the motion is otherwise an abuse of these Standing Orders.';

(u) Pre-legislative consideration

The insertion of the following new Standing Order before Standing Order 124:

'123A. Prior to its presentation or introduction to the Dáil, the general scheme or draft heads of a Bill shall, save in exceptional circumstances [see also S.O. 125], be given by a member of the Government or Minister of State to the Committee empowered under Standing Order 82A to consider Bills published by the member of the Government.';

(v) Five-minute statement on introduction of Bill

In Standing Order 124, the substitution of the following for paragraph (2):

'(2) Any member may move for leave to introduce a Bill. The Ceann Comhairle shall permit that member to make an explanatory statement thereon not exceeding five minutes in length. If such motion be opposed, the Ceann Comhairle shall permit in accordance with paragraph (4) an explanatory statement not exceeding five minutes in length from the member who moves and from a member who opposes the motion before he or she puts the question thereon. If leave to introduce the Bill is given, an Order shall be made for its second reading and the Bill shall be printed.';

(w) Speaking times on second reading

In Standing Order 125--

(a) the substitution of the following for paragraph (3):

'(3) Unless the Dáil shall otherwise order, the speech of--

(i) the member of the Government or Minister of State proposing the motion for the second reading of the Bill,

(ii) the main spokesperson nominated by each of the groups, as defined in Standing Order 120, and

(iii) a member who is the Chairman or vice Chairman of the Committee appointed to consider Bills in respect of the relevant Government Department, or a member of the Committee nominated in their stead, speaking in relation to that Committee's pre-legislative consideration of the Bill,

shall not exceed thirty minutes in each case; and the speech of any other member in the course of the debate shall not exceed twenty minutes. Provided that for the purposes of this Standing Order a party which is a group under Standing Order 120(1)(a) shall have precedence over a group recognised under paragraph (1)(b) of that Standing Order;

Provided further that a member who is the Chairman or vice Chairman of the Committee appointed to consider Bills in respect of the relevant Government Department, or a member of the Committee nominated in their stead, may only make a speech pursuant to paragraph (iii) where the Bill has been the subject of pre legislative consideration under Standing Order 123A. Provided further that such contribution shall not preclude a further contribution in a personal capacity by that member in the course of the debate;

Provided further, in the event the pre-legislative consideration under Standing Order 123A has not taken place, that the member of the Government or Minister of State proposing shall give the reason therefor during his or her opening remarks. Such member of the Government or Minister of State, or such other member as he or she may authorise in that behalf, shall be also entitled to not less than fifteen minutes, and not more than thirty minutes, for a speech in reply.',

and

(b) the addition of the following paragraph:

'(4) The Dáil may order that after the speech in reply by the member of the Government or Minister of State proposing, an additional 45 minutes be allocated during which members shall be entitled to make second speeches, with the following time limits and sequence of speakers:

(i) the speeches of the spokespersons and the Chairman or vice-Chairman of the Committee appointed to consider Bills in respect of the relevant Government Department, or a member of the Committee nominated in their stead, shall not exceed three minutes in each case;

(ii) the speech of each other member called upon shall not exceed three minutes; and

(iii) the member of the Government or Minister of State proposing the motion for the second reading of the Bill, or such other member as he or she may authorise in that behalf, shall be entitled to speak for the final three minutes.';

and

(x) Post-enactment consideration of legislation

The insertion of the following new Standing Order before Standing Order 142:

'141A. Twelve months following the enactment of a Bill, save in the case of the Finance Bill and the Appropriation Bill, the member of the Government or Minister of State who is officially responsible for implementation of the Act shall provide a report which shall review the functioning of the Act and which shall be laid in the Parliamentary Library.'.”

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The reform package we are introducing is essentially a set of common sense measures to improve the way the Dáil works. This House has two key functions; these are to hold the Government to account and enact and amend legislation. We must improve the way in which we do both of these. The way we do our business is based on a set of ideas and systems that have evolved since the 19th century, and that process of evolution must take another step forward. Parliament is different from other work places, and the work done by Deputies extends well beyond the formal sitting times for this House. Nevertheless, the Dáil can no longer work in a way that is so far removed from the experience of fellow citizens. We must change the way we work and show a more timely capacity to hold the Executive to account and make our legislative process more inclusive and timely. We need not only to listen to other voices but show that we are listening.

Over the past decade the amount of resources available to individual Deputies has been significant increased. The staff compliment in the research and library facilities has improved enormously compared to when I was first elected to the Dáil in 1989. Our structures and systems have not been reformed at the same pace. The changes being proposed today will require deeper and more considered engagement in the legislative process. Committees are not a platform for party political speeches and soundbite opportunities, and they require considered effort and engagement if they are to work effectively.

The measures we are introducing to this House are building on reforms already introduced over the past two years, such as an additional slot for Leaders' Questions on a Thursday, Topical Issue debates, Friday sittings to allow Deputies from both the Opposition and Government benches to introduce Bills and a reduction by nine in the number of Oireachtas committees. Today's proposed changes to Standing Orders will significantly enhance scrutiny of legislation, spending and policy, as well as the capacity of Deputies to hold the Government to account. It will also open the legislative process to new voices and ideas.

For example, in future all non-emergency legislation will be required to be sent to the relevant Oireachtas committee for examination, debate and consideration with the input of relevant experts, if there is a wish to do so. We have seen how this process was used to positive effect, particularly when it comes to public confidence in the law making process, with the Protection of Life during Pregnancy Bill earlier this year. I know from ministerial colleagues that they have often found this type of scrutiny of legislation before proceeding to drafting to be particularly useful, as it can catch anomalies or unintended consequences early, hence reducing the need for late amendments. It can also help in introducing new, previously unconsidered angles or ideas.

Another positive change to how we do business will be a significant role for Oireachtas committees in fiscal accountability. With the budget now in October, for the first time Oireachtas committees can consider departmental Estimates before any money is spent and not, as was previously the case, only after the fact.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The budget debate is guillotined, as well as the debate on the social welfare Bill.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The new Dáil schedule will also extend sitting times, allowing for an increase in the time for debate, and the Dáil will sit every second Friday to consider legislation put forward by Deputies and committee reports. In order to ensure that Deputies seeking to raise important issues under the new Topical Issue debate can get an effective answer to questions, in future a Minister or Minister of State from a relevant Department must take the issue in the Dáil.

Improving the quality of our democracy is about more than what happens on the floor of the Dáil, and it is also about the culture in which our politics operates. That is why this Government has introduced legislation to restore the Freedom of Information Act, whistleblower measures and the regulation of lobbying, as well as cutting political donations and effectively banning corporate donations. The Irish people deserve a hard-working, efficient and modern Parliament, and the changes proposed today are another step in the right direction.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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On a point of order, the average Deputy, like me, has been excluded from the debate on Dáil reform, which is totally inappropriate. These decisions have been made by leaders and they have never really consulted with people like me. I object to that.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Independent)
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Well said.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I remind the Deputy that in July 2011 we had a full day of debate on Dáil reform, which was the first time there was a full debate on Dáil reform.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It was July 2011.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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That was when we introduced some Dáil reform. The leader of the Fianna Fáil Party did not even contribute to that debate, which indicated his interest in Dáil reform after being appointed leader of Fianna Fáil. No parliament is perfect and the process of parliamentary reform is always ongoing. For many Deputies in the Chamber elected before 2011, like me, the changes introduced to date by this Government have significantly enhanced their role. Deputies can now draft their own legislation and have it debated in the Dáil.

They can engage in a pre-legislative review in committee, approach the Ceann Comhairle if they are unhappy with the answer to a parliamentary question and raise Topical Issues. These are just the first steps in the Dáil reform process.

The programme for Government outlines an ambitious agenda for Oireachtas reform to be introduced on a phased basis over the lifetime of the Government. The number of Dáil sitting days has been increased significantly by reducing the length of Dáil recesses. The first phase of Dáil reforms introduced in the summer of 2011 included an additional Leaders' Questions session on Thursdays; Topical Issue debates which replaced the Adjournment debate; Friday sittings to allow Deputies to introduce their own Bills; and a restructuring of the Oireachtas committee system by reducing the number of committees from 25 to 16 and providing for a system of pre-legislative review. In the summer of 2012 further reforms to the Oireachtas committee system streamlined the structure and allowed an additional focus on areas such as job creation and agriculture. These new Standing Orders are the next phase of the Dáil reform programme.

I refer to more public involvement in law-making. A pre-legislative stage before an Oireachtas committee will be a requirement for all non-emergency legislation. This will allow Deputies to consult experts, civic society groups and other citizens on proposed legislation before it is drafted. A Minister who does not bring a Bill to a committee for a pre-legislative stage will have to explain the reason to the Dáil. There will be an annual outline to the Dáil of Government priorities. The Taoiseach and the Tánaiste will address the Dáil setting out the Government's annual priorities. Each Minister will also address the Dáil setting out his or her Department's plans for the future. Oireachtas committees will have a greater role in the budgetary process. Committees can review the Stability Programme update and report to Departments before the budget. For the first time they can consider budget proposals and the Estimates before any money is spent.

There are measures to improve the legislative process. The new Dáil schedule will increase the length of daily sittings and the time available to debate legislation. The drafting and enactment process will be modernised. These steps will result in a reduction in the use of the guillotine. The Dáil will sit every second Friday to debate Private Members' Bills and committee reports. This will allow more Deputies to have their Bills debated in the Dáil and give a greater profile to committee reports. The Minister or a Minister of State from the relevant Department will respond to Topical Issue debates. Where this does not happen, the Deputy can either defer the debate until a Minister from that Department is available, when it will be given priority, or have it taken on the day allocated. For Dáil questions, the Deputy tabling an oral question must be in the Chamber when the matter is reached. The Deputy will be given a brief period to outline the question before the Minister replies. Opposition spokespersons will no longer nominate questions in the name of other Deputies but will have additional questions in their own name.

In legislative debates in the Chamber on First Stage the proposer of a Private Members' Bill will have five minutes to outline the purpose of the Bill. On Second Stage the Chairman or Vice Chairman of the committee which considered the Bill at pre-legislative stage shall have a speaking slot to report to the Dáil. At the end of the Second Stage debate 45 minutes will be allowed for concluding remarks by Deputies who have previously spoken, as chosen by the Ceann Comhairle. In a post-legislative review process a Minister will report to the relevant Oireachtas committee within 12 months of a Bill's enactment in order to review the Act.

Dáil reform is an ongoing process and work has already started on the next phase. I look forward to working on it with the members of the sub-committee on Dáil reform. Each Member of the House has an interest in this area and I am happy to consider any suggestion for Dáil reform from any individual Deputy, party or group. It is in all our interests and those of the people we serve to have a modern reformed Dáil.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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These Standing Orders are a facade. What is happening today is a disgrace. The Government stated it wanted real reform and would seek discussion with Opposition leaders. The Taoiseach promised there would be discussion, but none has taken place.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Yes, it did.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It did not.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It did.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It did not take place. These Standing Orders were published without consultation with any party leader, in spite of what the Taoiseach had promised. He did say one thing, namely, that he would talk to us before he made it a fait accompli.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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He did not say that.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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He said it in the Dáil during questions to the Taoiseach.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Through the Chair, please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Where is the reference to the pre-legislative stage in the case of the Social Welfare Bill? The Government came into the Chamber with great rhetoric, but what is happening next week?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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These are-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am asking the authority. The Minister of State, Deputy Paul Kehoe, should not reply. I apologise; I understand he is carrying out orders, but I asked a question. There is a lot of guff about having a pre-legislative stage and consultation, but on what is to happen next week - wait for it - there is a proposition before the Whips that we ram through and guillotine the debate on the Social Welfare Bill next Thursday and Friday, with no proper debate and no amendments.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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As the Deputy's party did for years while it was in government.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Is that your yardstick?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, Deputies.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Emmet Stagg's party promised a democratic revolution. There is no need for that behaviour next week, no need to guillotine the debate on the Social Welfare Bill. As it will not take effect until next year, there should be plenty of time for a pre-legislative phase. However, the Government will not entertain this because there are too many difficult issues to be dealt with. It wants to get rid of the budget debate and the Social Welfare Bill as quickly as it possibly can to shut down dissent and keep its backbenchers under control. That is why next Tuesday the Dáil will be asked to guillotine the debate on the Social Welfare Bill on the following Thursday and Friday, without allowing amendments such as any relating to the abolition of household benefits and pensioners' telephone charges to be vote on. If the Government was sincere about Dáil reform, it would not put proposals before the Whips outlining how it wishes to order the business of the House next week. That gives the lie to the proposition contained within these amendments to Standing Orders. They will not result in real reform of how we, as legislators, perform in this House, in particular how we hold the Government to account.

It is now 12 days since the people saw through the Government's attempt to abolish the Seanad, but the Government still refuses to listen. The reason that vote was lost was that people did not believe it was about real reform. They saw through the bluster, the focus groups and the sound bites and said all of that did not represent real reform. This is more about the optics of reform. This is about busyness, not business being done more effectively and efficiently. The promised democratic revolution is not happening. These Standing Orders are a whimper in a Dáil that will sit more hours but do less.

If one takes the list of claimed achievements in reform that the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste continue to expound, one will not find one significant change in how Ireland is governed. There has been no ceding of power from the Executive to Parliament in the past two and a half years. That is a fundamental fact. There has been tinkering at the edges. Today's alleged package of reform is about such tinkering. The introduction of a new Dáil sitting day on which no votes will be allowed and no legislation will emerge does amount to a change, but to present these proposals as transformative reforms is transparently ridiculous. The Topical Issues debate was intended to allow Ministers to come to the House and debate, but even the Government's own Whip has noted that their lack of co-operation is "shambolic". That is how effective that reform has been. The amendments before us will end up the same way, which is why we oppose them. They miss the point that more radical reform is required.

There was no consultation. Deputy Joanna Tuffy summed up that much. Backbenchers have no say in this. I am the leader of an Opposition party with 19 seats, but five minutes is all I have been allocated to discuss the issue of Dáil reform. It is an absolute joke. I do not know how Government representatives can come to the Chamber and pretend this is radical reform when its own backbenchers are not allowed to speak on how this House operates.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has not offered even one suggestion.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have. I gave the Minister of State a document proposing 90 reforms.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Last week.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, it was published last July. Has the Minister of State read it?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy gave it to me last week.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Has the Minister of State read it?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy gave it to me last week.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Quiet, please. Deputy Micheál Martin has the floor.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I made the suggestions and gave them to the Minister of State. There was no need to rush and ram through these proposals today.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy gave it to me last week.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Why does the Minister of State choose to do that? Why did he come up with this idea? Last week he said we would do this in 20 minutes - that is all he was prepared to allow for this debate.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy was forced to give it to me.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Twenty minutes is all the Minister of State was prepared to allow. Then he made this great gesture to Deputies and backbenchers and said we would have 50 minutes. Fantastic.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has gone over his time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State wants to chair the operation now.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Deputy to conclude.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The jackboot nature of the Minister of State's performance as Chief Whip is causing a reaction.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I am glad that the Deputy recognises that.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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One should take note when Government backbenchers have the courage to ask that backbenchers have a say in how the Dáil should operate and on the implications of the changes. It is a reasonable request. They should not be frowned on and people should not give out to them for having the courage of their convictions and to make basic points.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is over time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government had an opportunity but did not take it.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Deputy to conclude.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will conclude under protest. As a party, we are furious at how the House is being treated. I do not understand why the Government has stated 50 minutes is all we have to debate the issue.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We said we would review it in January.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Members, please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, the Tánaiste did not. That is just a sop on the Order of Business.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is not.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Micheál Martin must conclude.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Why not debate the issue?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Let us see how it works and come back to the matter in January.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Why can we not debate it and let Deputies contribute? This is ordained. The Government rushed the reform proposals during the debate on the Seanad to pretend to the public that it was interested in reform.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We did not rush it.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Time, please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government engaged in no prior consultation with anyone in a meaningful form. We had one meeting in the middle of the campaign and the Tánaiste pretends that that constitutes consultation.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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There were eight meetings of the Whips.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Does Deputy Micheál Martin not trust his Whip?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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We are behind time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I attended one meeting of the party leadership. It is a complete charade.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy must conclude. He has gone over time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is a facade. The Tánaiste should be ashamed of himself as the leader of the Labour Party who took office pretending that he would radically reform how the country was governed. He has done nothing of the sort. The Government has become more regressive in terms of parliamentary reform.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Deputy is against reform.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government has guillotined the debates on more Bills than any other Government in such a short space of time and does not allow any meaningful engagement.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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That is not true.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The proof of the pudding is in the fact.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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No, it is not.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I challenge the Tánaiste to withdraw the proposition on the social welfare Bill.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has moved on to a different issue.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Tánaiste withdraw what the Government is putting before the House next week?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Deputy.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Is that Deputy Micheál Martin's notion of Dáil reform?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy must conclude.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It would be a small, concrete illustration of the Government's genuine commitment to reform that we could vote on amendments tabled on the Social Welfare Bill. That is included in the reforms I submitted.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy does not have any suggestion to make on Dáil reform.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do. I will give the Minister of State a suggestion.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is over time. Could we have no interruptions, please?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Micheál Martin's suggestion was to give me one document a week before we introduced the reforms.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Before I conclude, I will give one concrete suggestion. The Government should make it clear that a set number of amendments tabled by the Opposition to the Social Welfare Bill will be voted on next week.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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That is not much of a change to the structure of Parliament.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Government do this?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The suggestion relates to the Social welfare Bill.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Deputies.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am asking about reform. That would be a very simple reform. I know what the Government wants to do. It wants one vote on the Social Welfare Bill next week.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has no suggestions to make.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government does not want a vote on household benefits next week. It does not want what it did to young people to be voted on next week.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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We will deal with the Bill next week.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is why the Government is ramming it through. I ask the Tánaiste to reflect on the matter. Before he comes to the House next Tuesday, I respectfully suggest he change the proposition that he put to the Whips on how the Social Welfare Bill is to be treated next week because it flies in the face of everything he has said this morning. It is hypocritical.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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What did the Deputy do for 14 years? He sat on his hands.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after “That, with effect from” and substitute the following:“14th January, 2014, and notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, the following amendments be made to the Standing Orders of Dáil Éireann relative to Public Business until further notice in the 31st Dáil:

(a) Quorum necessary to constitute meeting of Dáil on Tuesday mornings

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 19:

'19. (1) The quorum necessary to constitute a meeting of the Dáil, other than a meeting at which business comprehended by Standing Orders 88(2) and 117A is to be considered, shall be twenty members. [See S.O. 77]

(2) The quorum necessary to constitute a meeting of the Dáil for the purpose of considering business comprehended by Standing Orders 88(2) and 117A shall be ten members.';

(b) Earlier start time

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 21:

'21.(1) Unless the Dáil shall otherwise resolve--

(a) the Dáil shall meet every Tuesday, every Wednesday and Thursday at 9.30 a.m.; according to a schedule to be issued by the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach in the last week of the summer session each year, and

(b) the proceedings on any business under consideration shall be interrupted (or if the Dáil be in Committee, progress shall be reported and leave asked to sit again) and the Dáil shall adjourn--

(i) every Tuesday and Wednesday at 9 p.m.,

(ii) every Thursday at 7.30 p.m., and

Provided that if an Order shall have been made under Standing Order 22, that the hour at which business is to be interrupted be other than that specified in this paragraph, the provisions of this Standing Order with such substitution shall otherwise apply.

(2) If, at the time appointed for the interruption of business as provided in paragraph (1) (b) of this Standing Order, the closure is moved or proceedings under the closure are in progress, the Ceann Comhairle will not effect such interruption until the proceedings under the closure, and on any such further motion as is specified in the Standing Order as to closure [S.O. 66] have been completed.

(3) If, at the time appointed for the interruption of business as aforesaid,

(a) a division is in progress or has been ordered to be taken, or

(b) the debate on an item of business has concluded,

the interruption shall not take place until after the decision has been declared from the Chair. If the decision is on an amendment, or on an amendment to the amendment, after such declaration the Ceann Comhairle shall proceed to put in proper sequence the Questions necessary to bring proceedings to a conclusion.';

(c) Suspension of sitting

In Standing Order 23, to delete paragraph (1);

(d) Leaders' Questions

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 27:

'27. (a) Unless the Dáil shall otherwise order on motion made by a member of the Government or Minister of State, Leaders' Questions shall be taken--

(i) at 4.15 p.m. on Tuesdays, and

(ii) at 10.45 a. m. on Wednesdays and Thursdays,

(ii) on each other day the Dáil shall agree to meet.

(b) During the time allowed for Leaders' Questions, the Ceann Comhairle may permit, at his or her discretion, a brief question not exceeding two minutes from each Leader in Opposition to the Taoiseach about a matter of topical public importance and in respect of which the following arrangements shall apply:

(i) the Taoiseach shall be called upon to reply for a period not exceeding two minutes,

(ii) the Leader in Opposition who asked the original question may then ask a brief supplementary question not exceeding one minute and 30 seconds,

(iii) the Taoiseach shall then be called upon to reply in conclusion for a period not exceeding one minute and 30 seconds.

(c) The Taoiseach may, with the agreement of the Dáil, nominate another member of the Government to take Leaders' Questions in his or her absence.

(d) In this Standing Order, “Leader in Opposition” means the leader of a group as defined in Standing Order 120(1): Provided that the Leader of a party which is a group under Standing Order 120(1)(a) shall have precedence over the designated Leader of a group recognised under paragraph (1)(b) of that Standing Order.';

(e) Topical Issue Debate

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 27A:

'27A. (1) Any member may give notice in writing of a matter which he or she wishes to bring forward for consideration as a topical issue, and this may include matters of a national or international nature. Such matters shall be considered on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday on which the Dáil meets.

Provided that topical issues must reach the Clerk not later than 10 a.m. on a Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.

(2) The Ceann Comhairle shall select a maximum of six such matters for consideration on each Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday: Provided that the matters selected must relate to public affairs connected with a Department of State or to matters of administration for which a member of the Government or Minister of State is officially responsible (including bodies under the aegis of a Department of State in respect of Government policy).

Provided further that where, in exceptional circumstances, the member of the Government or Minister of State officially responsible for the matter is not available on the day, the available member of Government or Minister of State shall so inform the member who has given notice within 30 minutes of receiving the notice of the matter.

The available Minister shall also inform the member who has given notice of the date on which the officially responsible member of the Government or Minister of State will be available. The member who has given notice shall then be given the option to--

(a) defer consideration of the matter to the next day on which the officially responsible member of the Government or Minister of State will be available, when it will be the first matter to be taken, or

(b) proceed with the matter on the day with the participation of an available member of the Government or Minister of State;

Provided further that where a matter has been deferred to a particular day, the number of matters to be selected on that day shall be reduced according to the number of deferred matters.

Provided further that where a matter has been deferred, that a replacement topical issue request from another member is selected and taken that same day, thus ensuring that SO27A(2) is complied with and six topical issues are proceeded with.

(3) Matters selected by the Ceann Comhairle shall be considered--

(a) on Tuesdays, immediately after the order of business,

(b) on a Wednesday at 2.30 p.m., and

(c) on Thursdays, at 1.40 p.m.

(4) Consideration of each topical issue shall consist of--

(a) a statement by the member who has given notice which shall not exceed 3 minutes,

(b) a statement in reply by a member of the Government or Minister of State, pursuant to paragraph (2), which shall not exceed 3 minutes,

(c) a further statement by the member who has given notice which shall not exceed 2 minutes, and

(d) a concluding statement by the member of the Government or Minister of State concerned which shall not exceed 2 minutes:

Provided that where the Ceann Comhairle has selected a matter of which valid notice has been given by more than one member and he is of the opinion that the number of members sharing time would result in insufficient time for each member to make an adequate contribution, he may, subject to paragraph (2), select fewer than four matters and aggregate the time that would ordinarily be assigned to two or more topical issues;

Provided further that--

(i) where the time allowed for such matters is aggregated, the total times allowed for the initial and further statements of members who have given notice, and of the member of the Government or Minister of State replying, shall be adjusted at the discretion of the Ceann Comhairle, and

(ii) the total time allowed for consideration of topical issues on any day shall not exceed 60 minutes;

Provided further that where topical issues on the same matter have been aggregated, and where the member of Government or Minister of State who is officially responsible for the matter is not available on the day, if any of the members who have been selected on the matter wish it to be deferred, then the matter shall be deferred;

Provided further that the Dáil shall not divide on any matter arising out of consideration of topical issues.

(5) A list of the matters in respect of which notice has been given under this Standing Order and the name of the member concerned in each case shall be printed in the Official Report of the Debates.

(6) The Ceann Comhairle shall have regard to requests made pursuant to Standing Order 40A(7) in selecting matters in accordance with this Standing Order.';

(f) Routine of Business

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 28:

'28. (1) Subject to Standing Order 26, the ordinary routine of business in the Dáil on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays shall be as follows:--

1. *Questions, Leaders' Questions and topical issues.

2. Private Business.

3. Public Business--

(i) At the commencement of Public Business--

(a) Motions in relation to reports from Committees given priority under Standing Orders 102A, 105, 106 or 107.

(b) Other reports from Committees.

(c) Messages from the Seanad.

(d) Bills from the Seanad.

(e) Initiation of Bills.

(f) Notices of Motions.

(ii) Orders of the Day.

(2) Other than when the Dáil meets to consider business comprehended by Standing Orders 88(2) and 117A, the ordinary routine of business in Private Members' time [S.O. 117] shall be as follows:--

(i) Adjourned Business given priority under Standing Orders.

(ii) Other Business ordered.

(iii) Other Notices of Motions.';

*Subject to the provisions of Standing Orders 27, 27A and 36.

(g) Changed deadlines for Questions

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 33:

'33. Questions to a member of the Government must be in writing. A Question must reach the Clerk not later than 11 a.m. on--

(a) the third day preceding the day on which it is to be asked if an answer is to be provided in the Official Report of the Debates [S.O. 40(2)],

(b) the fourth day preceding the day on which it is to be asked if it is nominated for priority [S.O. 39], or if it is an ordinary oral Question [S.O. 38], not reckoning a Saturday, Sunday, or public holiday.

Provided that Questions relating to matters of urgent public importance may, by permission of the Ceann Comhairle, be asked on private notice. Such Questions must be in writing and must reach the Clerk not later than 11.30 a.m. on the day on which they are to be asked.';

(h) Questions not to be repetitive of topical issues

In Standing Order 35, in paragraphs (3) and (4), the deletion of 'or in response to a matter raised under Standing Order 27A';

(i) Time for Questions

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 36:

'36. (1) Unless the Dáil shall otherwise order on motion made by a member of the Government or Minister of State--

(a) Questions for oral answer to the Taoiseach may be taken for one hour at 3.15 p.m. on Tuesdays.;

(b) Questions for oral answer to other members of the Government shall be taken--

(i) from 2 p.m. to 3.15 p.m. on Tuesdays, and

(ii) from 9.30 a.m. to 10.45 a.m. on Wednesdays and Thursdays.

Provided that Questions asked on private notice may be taken by permission of the Ceann Comhairle and shall be asked for 30 minutes immediately after the order of business on Tuesdays, for 30 minutes immediately before Private Members' time on Wednesdays, and during the 30 minutes before the taking of topical issues on Thursdays.

(2) The time allowed for Questions nominated for priority for any one day shall not exceed 30 minutes.';

(j) Repetition not to apply in relation to topical issues

In Standing Order 56, paragraph (1), the insertion of ': Provided that in determining whether a discussion is out of order on the ground of repetition, the Ceann Comhairle shall disregard discussion of any matter during the debate on a Topical Issue' after 'preceding six months';

(k) Drafting amendment to Standing Order 57(4)

In Standing Order 57, paragraph (4), the substitution of 'Standing Order 27A' for 'Standing Order 21';

(l) Post-enactment consideration of legislation

In Standing Order 82A, paragraph (4), the insertion of the following after subparagraph (e):

'(ea) reports under Standing Order 141A by members of the Government or Ministers of State on Bills which have been enacted in the previous 12 months,';

(m) Power to require reports for post-enactment consideration of legislation

In Standing Order 83, the insertion of the following after paragraph (6A):

'(6B) power to require that a member of the Government or Minister of State who is officially responsible for the implementation of an Act shall attend before the Select Committee in relation to consideration of a report under Standing Order 141A;';

(n) Debating of reports from Committees

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 88:

'88. (1) Where a Standing, Select, Special or Joint Committee, as the case may be, makes a report containing a request that the report be debated by the Dáil, a motion to consider the report shall, as soon as practicable after the adoption of the report by the Committee, be placed on the Order Paper: Provided that any such motion which is not moved within twelve months from the date on which it was first placed on the Order Paper shall be deemed to have lapsed, but without prejudice to the right to put down such motion again.

(2) The Committee Chairman may give notice that he or she wishes to bring forward for consideration on a Tuesday morning in accordance with Standing Order 21(1)(a), a Committee report that has been laid before the Dáil and in respect of which a motion to consider the report is listed on the Order Paper: Provided that such notice shall be received by the Clerk not later than 11 a.m. on the third preceding Friday. Further provided that, once notice has been given in respect of a report for Tuesday, such notice will stand for each subsequent Tuesday morning*, until the report is selected for consideration or the Committee Chairman indicates to the contrary.

(3) The time allowed for the debate on the motion to consider the report shall not exceed a period of two hours in the aggregate.

Provided that the following time limits and sequence of speakers shall apply to the debate:

(a) the speeches of--

(i) the member proposing the motion who shall be the Chairman of the Committee or another member of the Committee nominated in his or her stead, and

(ii) a member of the Government or Minister of State, who shall outline the Government's response to the report, including the Government's response to any recommendations contained therein,

shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case;

(b) the speech of each other member called upon shall not exceed 10 minutes;

(c) a member of the Government or Minister of State, who may speak twice, shall be entitled to make a speech immediately before the reply by the proposer, which shall not exceed 10 minutes;

(d) the proposer shall be entitled to not more than 10 minutes for a speech in reply;

and

(e) all members shall be entitled to share their time.';

*Subject to the provisions of Standing Order 28(3).

(o) Allocation of time between Government business and private members' business,

and divisions on Tuesday mornings to be postponed

In Standing Order 117--

(a) the substitution of the following for paragraph (1)(b)(ii):

'(ii) on Tuesday mornings in accordance with Standing Order 21(1)(a), to one Bill initiated by a private member, selected for consideration pursuant to Standing Order 117A, and one Committee report, selected pursuant to Standing Order 88, or in the event no Committee report is available for consideration, to two Bills initiated by private members and selected pursuant to Standing Order 117A.';

and

(b) the insertion of the following paragraph before paragraph (2):

'(1A) The Ceann Comhairle shall, where a division has been demanded on a sitting on a Tuesday morning in accordance with Standing Order 21(1)(a), postpone the taking of such division until immediately after that afternoon's Order of Business.';

(p) Tuesday Mornings: private members' Bills

The substitution of the following for Standing Order 117A:

'117A. (1) Any member other than a member of the Government or Minister of State may give notice that he or she wishes to bring forward for consideration, on Tuesday mornings in accordance with Standing Order 21(1)(a), a Bill that has been initiated by him or her and that is listed on the Order Paper at Second Stage or order for Second Stage: Provided that such notice shall be received by the Clerk not later than 11 a.m. on the third preceding Friday. Further provided that, once notice has been given in respect of a Bill for any Tuesday morning, such notice will stand for each subsequent Tuesday until the Bill is selected for consideration or the member sponsoring the Bill indicates to the contrary.

(2) Where notice from more than one member has been received in respect of any

Tuesday morning, a Bill to be considered shall be determined by lottery, at which

members may attend. Provided that such lottery shall take place on the third preceding

Friday.

(3) Any Bill to be considered on a Tuesday morning pursuant to this Standing Order and

Standing Orders 28 and 117 shall be set down for Second Stage and the time allowed

for the debate on the motion for second reading shall not exceed a period of two hours

in the aggregate:

Provided that the following time limits and sequence of speakers shall apply to the

debate:

(a) the speeches of--

(i) the member proposing the motion for the second reading of the Bill, and

(ii) a member of the Government or Minister of State,

shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case;

(b) the speech of each other member called upon shall not exceed 10 minutes;

(c) a member of the Government or Minister of State, who may speak twice, shall be

entitled to make a speech immediately before the reply by the proposer, which

shall not exceed 5 minutes;

(d) the proposer shall be entitled to not more than 10 minutes for a speech in reply;

and

(e) all members shall be entitled to share their time.';

(q) Time for Bills on Tuesday mornings, and putting the question on private Members' business

In Standing Order 121--

(a) in paragraph (2), the substitution of 'The time allowed for the debate on the motion for the second reading of a Bill initiated by a private member, other than a Bill to be considered on a Tuesday morning [See S.O. 117A], shall not exceed a period of six hours in the aggregate.' for 'The time allowed for the debate on the motion for the second reading of a Bill initiated by a private member, other than a Bill to be considered on a Tuesday morning [See S.O. 117A], shall not exceed a period of six hours in the aggregate.';

and

(b) the insertion of the following paragraph after paragraph (2):

'(2A) If a member claims to move, “That the question be now put” prior to the expiration of the said periods in paragraphs (1) and (2), such motion shall not be allowed if it appears to the Ceann Comhairle that it is an infringement of the rights of a minority, or that the question has not been adequately discussed, or that the motion is otherwise an abuse of these Standing Orders.';

(r) Pre-legislative consideration

The insertion of the following new Standing Order before Standing Order 124:

'123A. Prior to its presentation or introduction to the Dáil, the general scheme or draft heads of a Bill shall, save in exceptional circumstances [see also S.O. 125], be given by a member of the Government or Minister of State to the Committee empowered under Standing Order 82A to consider Bills published by the member of the Government.';

(s) Two-minute statement on introduction of Bill

In Standing Order 124, the substitution of the following for paragraph (2):

'(2) Any member may move for leave to introduce a Bill. The Ceann Comhairle shall permit that member to make an explanatory statement thereon not exceeding two minutes in length. If such motion be opposed, the Ceann Comhairle shall permit in accordance with paragraph (4) an explanatory statement not exceeding five minutes in length from the member who moves and from a member who opposes the motion before he or she puts the question thereon. If leave to introduce the Bill is given, an Order shall be made for its second reading and the Bill shall be printed.';

(t) Speaking times on second reading

In Standing Order 125--

(a) the substitution of the following for paragraph (3):

'(3) Unless the Dáil shall otherwise order, the speech of--

(i) the member of the Government or Minister of State proposing the motion for the second reading of the Bill, and

(ii) the main spokesperson nominated by each of the groups, as defined in Standing Order 120, shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; or 5 minutes in the case of a member who is the Chairman or vice-Chairman of the Committee appointed to consider Bills in respect of the relevant Government Department, or a member of the Committee nominated in their stead, speaking in relation to that Committee's pre-legislative consideration of the Bill; and the speech of any other member in the course of the debate shall not exceed 10 minutes. Provided that for the purposes of this Standing Order a party which is a group under Standing Order 120 (1)(a) shall have precedence over a group recognised under paragraph (1)(b) of that Standing Order;

Provided further that a member who is the Chairman or vice-Chairman of the Committee appointed to consider Bills in respect of the relevant Government Department, or a member of the Committee nominated in their stead, may only make a speech pursuant to this Standing Order where the Bill has been the subject of pre-legislative consideration under Standing Order 123A. Provided further that such contribution shall not preclude a further contribution in a personal capacity by that member in the course of the debate;

Provided further, in the event the pre-legislative consideration under Standing Order 123A has not taken place, that the member of the Government or Minister of State proposing shall give the reason therefore during his or her opening remarks. Such member of the Government or Minister of State, or such other member as he or she may authorise in that behalf, shall be also entitled to not less than 10 minutes, and not more than 15 minutes, for a speech in reply.',

and

(u) Post-enactment consideration of legislation

The insertion of the following new Standing Order before Standing Order 142:

'141A. Twelve months following the enactment of a Bill, save in the case of the Finance Bill and the Appropriation Bill, the member of the Government or Minister of State who is officially responsible for implementation of the Act shall provide a report which shall review the functioning of the Act and which shall be laid in the Parliamentary Library.'.”.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is wrong.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is absolutely correct. Part of the reason we do not see proposals with depth is that the Government did not consult in a meaningful way with the Opposition parties.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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That is not true.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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There was one meeting which I thought was useful, but it was only one and we were advised of what the Government had already agreed to do. I will not engage in argy-bargy back and forth, but it is symptomatic of the Government's attitude to the Opposition. That might be because the Government has such a huge majority and it might even be for benign reasons such as that it is not even thinking about the way it treats the Opposition. One example of its attitude is the way the proposals are being rushed through. Another is the way the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste heckle Sinn Féin representatives. That was very evident when Teachtaí Mary Lou McDonald and Pearse Doherty outlined Sinn Féin's response to the shameful budget proposals. We sat and listened respectfully to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, and when our representatives tried to give their response, the Government side heckled, intruded, were bad mannered and churlish. They interrupted.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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That is not fair.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is not unfair and, with respect, the Tánaiste is doing it again. We published proposals for political reform. I do not know how the Labour Party works, but our group discussed all of our proposals. We set out what we thought was required and presented it to the Chief Whip, the Taoiseach and the other Opposition parties for consideration. We also submitted a specific procedural response to the Government's proposals, outlining how the existing Dáil sitting days might be used more effectively. The proposals included operational and procedural changes.

Teachta Aengus Ó Snodaigh will address our amendments in greater detail, but I will deal with the principles underpinning the proposals. Reform is required, even if there had not been the huge scandals we saw in recent years but because this system was inherited from the British and, as the Tánaiste acknowledged, has been largely untouched ever since. Citizens, commentators, political representatives - most people - want to see reform from the bottom up in order that citizens have a sense of ownership of how they are governed. We are the messengers of the people who send us here. In a real republic we should be accountable to them, not just at election time but in a real sense every day of the week.

Since the Government came to power, údarás has been emasculated. Local government structures have been disemboweled. We have seen a complete mess of the Seanad reform propositions, including making a complete hames of the Seanad abolition campaign. The Constitutional Convention has not been given proper authority. A big point is that not one element of the Good Friday Agreement has been incorporated in any of the institutions or agencies of the State. All of these measures which are about protection, equality and transparency, which work and are lauded worldwide have not been inculcated into the workings of the State.

I question whether there has been proper consultation with staff - the ushers and administrative staff - on the introduction of the new measures. If possible, I would like a response to this question. Another concern is whether the proposed changes will increase further and reinforce the unacceptable gender imbalance. Has any thought been given to a reduction in the number of Deputies? We were promised a debate on the North, for which I had asked. We propose that a dedicated week long Dáil sitting on the North be scheduled on a regular basis, on a similar basis to the arrangements made for EU week. There are many ideas within the Sinn Féin team and the Government must listen to what we say.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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We have a list of changes to Standing Orders that are hardly earth shattering. In fact, it is an extension of the superficial changes that, in reality, change very little. The changes were announced by the Government in advance of the autumn session of the Dáil, yet Article 28.4 of the Constitution makes it very clear that the Government shall be responsible to Dáil Éireann. Deputy Joanna Tuffy is correct; it is not the Dáil that is making the announcements, it is the Government. Article 15.10 states each House of the Oireachtas shall - not may - make its own rules and Standing Orders, with the power to attach penalties for their infringement and shall have the power to ensure freedom of debate. In that regard, reference has already been made to equality. This and previous Governments have commandeered the role of the Dáil. It is a power grab; one that has been ongoing for a very long time.

If there are to be fundamental changes to the way in which we do business and if we are to learn from mistakes, we must realise that democracy needs checks and balances. This was envisaged by the drafters of the Constitution and the people who approved it, yet there is nothing in the Government's reform programme that addresses this. More democracy is needed, not less, yet there is a greater concentration of power at the centre.

There is a proposal to increase the number of hours and sitting days but sitting on the second Friday of each month will not be meaningful. We propose that there should be one Friday sitting with votes rather than two half days so as to be meaningful. The reform proposals move around times, such as the time for ministerial questions. We believe the new time proposed will make Question Time less effective, not more effective. Some changes have been made regarding Topical Issues. The Government says it wants greater diversity and to encourage women or people with young families to enter politics, yet it is providing for a sitting day on Wednesday from 9.30 a.m. to 9.30 p.m. This kind of development really flies in the face of the kinds of developments that should be occurring. Sittings should be over five days and there should be a more normal arrangement.

What would a functioning Dáil look like? It would have checks and balances. What went wrong at the time of the crash was related to the concentration of power in a very small number of people. We are told the committees are where the work will happen. There is much talk about the committee system but committees are not terribly well attended, despite what it said. This is because it is impossible to be in two places at the one time. There are fault lines associated with committees. Since one is not allowed advice at the pre-legislative stage, one is often told on sending one's document to the Government that the Attorney General says one's proposal will not work. The fault line must be addressed. I have been saying that for some time now.

Nowhere in the Constitution are political parties referred to. Article 40 confers the right to form associations and unions. It states laws regulating the manner in which the right to form associations and unions and the right to free assembly may be exercised shall contain no political, religious or class discrimination. Some of the rules in the Standing Orders are quite discriminatory. Equal recognition is not afforded to various groups in the Dáil by comparison with political parties. My saying this might be inconvenient for those who are institutionalised in the political party system but the reality is that the mandate was given by the people and it should be respected.

This morning, we could not even stand up and object to the time that was being allowed under Standing Orders despite the fact that my group has 16 Members, which is more than Sinn Féin. We could not stand up and make a point on the Standing Orders and the ordering of business because we do not constitute a political party. For months on end, we have on the Order Paper a motion suggesting this needs to be addressed. However, there is no commitment to address even that. It flies in the face of how the Constitution sets out how we should do our business.

Most members of the Technical Group, including me, will be opposing the changes to Standing Orders because they are superficial, will cost a lot more and not deliver anything meaningful in return for the investment of time. Essentially, they do not go to the heart of what is needed. If we are to have radical reform and a democratic revolution, it is about time that we recognised the aspects of that revolution that are more than about ticking boxes, which is what is occurring.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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It is good that we are having a debate on how to change our way of doing business to become more efficient, transparent and accountable. As everybody in the House, except Deputy Adams, knows, this was discussed at length over a long period by the Dáil reform committee. It was discussed by the Parliamentary Labour Party at our think-in in Carton House. I thank Deputy Tuffy for her very positive contribution at that meeting.

I do not propose to address the detail of this tranche of reforms or earlier reforms that have been put in place as it has been adequately covered; suffice it to say that the transformation since I was first elected some 25 years ago has been very marked. Twenty-five years ago, Government backbenchers were to be seen and heard only under instruction. Now Government backbenchers raise matters through Question Time, the Order of Business and Topical Issues as regularly as the Opposition. That is a very positive development in holding the Executive to account. Backbenchers can no longer be regarded simply as cannon fodder.

This is a democratic Assembly elected by the citizens of this democratic Republic. I, for one, am very proud to have been chosen to be a Member. Our job is to make law and hold the Government to account. With regard to holding the Executive to account, a large part of our sitting time is actually devoted to that objective. As stated, it is not only the Opposition Deputies who do this but also the Government backbenchers. During a normal working day in the Chamber, the Government is made accountable by use of Private Members' time, Leaders' Questions, questions to the Taoiseach and Ministers, Topical Issues, the Order of Business and debates on legislation and motions. The space for legislating is restricted but the new extended sitting hours and days, outlined in the motion, will provide some balance in this regard.

On legislation, it is a reality in all democracies that the government proposes the vast majority of legislative measures. There will be enhanced opportunities under the proposals before us to extend the time and space for the consideration of legislative proposals by backbenchers and Opposition spokespersons. Regardless of who introduces legislation, the Members of the House debate it, parse it, amend it and either support or oppose it. Making law is a complex matter. First, a policy to be made law has to be decided. Heads of the Bill are then prepared and sent to the Government. There is then pre-legislative consultation. The Bill then proceeds to full drafting and is sent to all Departments for their observations. It is then subject to final Cabinet approval. It then passes through five separate Stages in the Dáil and Seanad and it is then sent to the President, who can sign it or refer it to the Supreme Court. There will now be a post-enactment report to the relevant committee. This is part of the new procedure proposed today.

There are, rightly, severe checks and balances and that is how it should be, as the lives and welfare of citizens who elected us are affected. They deserve no less. I do not foresee any significant change to the procedure, which has been tried and tested over time.

The biggest issue to be resolved is the time to be provided for the passage of a Bill through its various Stages. It is not possible to allow debate to continue indefinitely but it is necessary to ensure that all aspects of a Bill are scrutinised and debated. Where the legislation is urgent or required to be law by a set date, agreement should be reached on the maximum time available and how this can be applied so no section is passed without debate or scrutiny. We do this already through the Financial Resolutions arising from the budget so we do not have to reinvent the wheel to do so. The proposal, if accepted, would remove the possibility of political play-acting, whereby all the time available is spent debating the Title of a Bill, for example, resulting in the Government being accused of bulldozing the Bill through the House. I urge all sides in the House to examine this aspect of our legislative activity to ensure legislation passed is properly debated and scrutinised.

There have been rather frantic calls in recent times for what has been described as "far-reaching reform". I have heard no substantial proposals from either the Opposition or the commentators who made the demands. The only constant demand is for a free-for-all that would lead to the regular defeat of the Government. The reality is that the Government in power has in Parliament majority support without which it would not be the Government.

The Whip system is described by the commentators in question as dictatorial and curbing freedom of expression and action. I have been a Whip for many years and the only power I have is that vested in me by Labour Party parliamentarians, my colleagues. The Labour Party meets once per week and makes decisions on how it will vote on various issues. This is usually by consensus, but sometimes a position is arrived at by majority decision. All members of the group who have accepted the decision are expected to vote accordingly, as would be the case in any organisation. If anybody does not accept the decision of the group, he or she is free to act contrary to the group's wishes, and some have done so.

A great deal has been done since I first came to the Dáil to make the working of this House more effective but there is still room for further action on the various proposals from all sides. As has been said in another context, a lot has been done but there is more to do. I commend the motion to the House.

Joe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I rise to support the measures before us today. I am a Whip and there is a Whips' meeting every week during which we consult with people and try to reach an agreement. We listen to the views of others at those meetings. I was taken aback to see the leader of Fianna Fáil, Deputy Martin, come in here, give his rant and then get up and walk out, without listening to people's views in this Chamber. He was very concerned about this motion but then off he went. It is ridiculous.

The Chief Whip, Deputy Kehoe, should be complimented on the Dáil reform packages he has actually implemented. The key functions of this Parliament are to hold the Government to account and to enact legislation. Many reform measures have been introduced, the first round of which were implemented within four months of this Government's coming into office. The Government has brought in a range of measures to make this Parliament work better. Dáil reform involves everyone in Parliament and everyone has a say. The Fine Gael Party debates reform proposals and listens to the different views. The Ceann Comhairle put forward proposals which were considered by the Government. Indeed, every party has put forward proposals which were listened to by this Government. This is an ongoing process.

If one examines what has already been delivered by the Chief Whip, one will see that we are sitting for longer in this House - 33% longer, in fact. There was a time when this Dáil rose in June and did not resume until the last day of September. That is no longer happening. We are sitting longer now. The measures introduced by Deputy Kehoe make the Government more accountable. For example, on Thursday the Tánaiste comes into the House for Leader's Questions, which did not happen before. That makes the Government more accountable. It gives members of the Opposition an opportunity to raise the relevant issues of the day. The Topical Issue debate now takes place in the middle of the day and Members can raise relevant issues, with the topics selected for debate by the Ceann Comhairle.

We need to reach an agreement on where we go from here. Basically, I see Deputy Martin coming in here every week and ranting about Dáil reform, but I do not see the practical measures he wants to see introduced. There is now an opportunity for backbenchers to present legislation for debate in this House and the Government parties have, in some cases, accepted that legislation. That did not happen previously under Fianna Fáil-led Governments. It simply did not happen. That represents significant progress.

The proposals on the pre-legislative process, whereby civic society and interested parties are given a say on proposed legislation, represent major reform. I attended a meeting of the Joint Committee on Transport and Communications yesterday, attended by various stakeholders in Shannon Airport. The CEO of the airport, the Clare county manager and representatives of the Chamber of Commerce were given an opportunity to give their views on a Bill specific to Shannon. They were very grateful for that opportunity. That represents a major change and in fairness, Deputy Kehoe should be applauded for that and members of the Opposition should support it.

I attend Whips' meetings and what is said in this Chamber is very different to what is said at those meetings. It does not add up. For Deputy Martin to come into this Chamber and rant about reform while not putting forward proposals of his own is ridiculous. When the debate proper started, he just walked out. He did not listen at all, which is shocking.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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When we started this process two and a half years ago there was genuine enthusiasm among all the Whips. There was a willingness to work together to try to achieve the sort of reform that we considered necessary. Many of us were approaching this in the context of the intention, expressed by the Government parties during the election campaign, to effect a democratic revolution. It has been admitted by Deputy Kehoe and indeed by Deputy Stagg, who has been around for a lot longer than most of us, that perhaps for the first time we had unanimity in terms of working towards reform. However, while I do not blame Deputy Kehoe, who is only responding to his political masters, what we now have is a level of disenchantment across the board because the scale of reform that was envisaged has not been achieved. Fianna Fáil published a document on reform last July and my party Leader gave it to the Taoiseach last week or the week before. In terms of the anxieties and concerns of my party leader, one of those derives from the fact that both he and Deputy Adams were given very explicit commitments by the Taoiseach that in advance of the publication and implementation of a package of reforms, he would sit down with the party leaders and have a meaningful discussion with them. That did not happen. When we met the Taoiseach a week or two ago, I asked him what was going to happen on this particular package and he said the Government would be proceeding with it and that he would not be having the discussion with party leaders to which he had committed. That gives rise to justifiable anger and frustration on the part of my party leader, Deputy Adams and others.

I have never said that there are no positive proposals in this package of reforms. However, as Deputy Martin has said, the reforms fall so far short of what was possible and what was promised as to be disenchanting and disillusioning. The Friday debate has been referred to by some Members. It is, on the one hand, exciting that backbenchers are being given the opportunity to bring forward legislation, but how meaningful is any of that unless some of the legislation is actually enacted? Otherwise, it is nothing more than a talking shop. The reality is that in two and a half years none of the Bills discussed on a Friday has been written into law, and there is no prospect of any future Bills that will be discussed being enacted either. Reference was also made to the pre-legislative debate, which is a very good initiative, and I commend Deputy Kehoe on that. However, it has always been possible for Oireachtas committees to conduct pre-legislative discussions and consultations. It is good that the Government is formalising the process and we support that. However, as my party leader quite rightly pointed out, on the one hand the Government is promising pre-legislative discussion but on the other hand, next week we will debate one of the most important Bills that the Dáil will consider between now and Christmas, the social welfare Bill, but there has not been any pre-legislative discussion on that. That legislation, as Deputy Martin pointed out, will be rammed through the House next week. That is completely at variance with the sense coming from Government of what it wants to do.

Deputy Carey has expressed his annoyance at the departure of Deputy Martin, who has gone to fulfil another commitment, but we were here on Tuesday last for the budget debate, and I can assure Deputy Carey that I was pretty annoyed when I saw the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform get up and leave the Chamber while the budgetary debate was still under way.

It was more important for the two Ministers to leave the Chamber to start the spinning outside. In the past the one Minister would have stayed in the Chamber for the entire budget debate.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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That was never the case.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, it was. The other day the two Ministers had to get out to the media to communicate the Government’s message. I must take my hat off to them as they have been very good at it. Is this House the pre-eminent representative body? Does it deserve respect such that Members such as the Minister for Finance would remain here for the debate on the Budget Statement? I believe it does.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Tá an t-am istigh.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Leas-Cheann Comhairle is showing a lot of leniency to Fianna Fáil speakers today.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I am only the referee and the referee is only as good as the team here.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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Last year we spoke about getting more women involved in politics. There is nothing in this package of reforms that is in any way family friendly or will make it easier for women or other home-makers to become involved in politics, which is regrettable.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have welcomed positive changes to Standing Orders since I was appointed my party's Whip in 2002. I am one of the longer serving Whips in the House. In that time I have tried to engage positively with and come to consensual agreement on any package any Government has introduced to make the workings of the House better, make it more accountable and reflective of society. I have acknowledged the changes made in the last round of Dáil reforms as being positive. This package also has some positive elements, which I accept.

It must be remembered we are Teachtaí Dála, messengers from our constituencies. We have a dual role as legislators, as well as working with our constituents and their representative organisations. We must be careful to ensure we do not burden Deputies with unrealistic timeframes. Some of the pressure coming from the media is aimed at trying to get us to sit here from 9 a.m. to midnight. Even if we were to do this, it would not suit some on the outside. We need to ensure we fulfil both of our duties. These roles were confirmed for us recently at the Constitutional Convention when its citizen members agreed that Deputies had a role to reflect and work with them. This is being eroded somewhat by these proposals.

Behind some of the proposals I have made, I recognise there is a need to make the Dáil, political institutions and the Government more effective, accountable and transparent, while making it more workable for Members. I gave a draft copy of my reform proposals to the Chief Whip before being fully passed by my party to ensure he would row back on some of his proposals before they were put to the House. The sitting time every second Friday could be contained in the existing working week by extending the Tuesday sitting to cover the morning period. This would save not only money for the Houses but also provide more time for Members to spend in their constituencies. That proposal is contained in my amendment. Deputy Gerry Adams spoke earlier about having a sitting week devoted to dealing exclusively with proposals under the Good Friday Agreement that have not yet been implemented. It seems, however, that the Government wants to give over another two weeks to discuss EU matters.

The Dáil reform committee endorsed the first package of reforms some time ago. This package, however, was put to the committee as a fait accompli. No consensus was reached on it and it will be put to the House today without a proper discussion with Members or the staff. These changes are expected to take effect in two weeks time. That is a significant change in how this House works. The implications for human resources have not been fully worked out and it could lead to chaos. In my amendment I suggest these reforms should have a longer lead-in time and be introduced in January. This would give us a way to restructure our constituency arrangements, our offices in Leinster House and for the staff to change their lives around it.

Some of my proposals are positive. I have gone as far as accepting that speaking times should be reduced to allow more Members the opportunity to speak. I have suggested limits be placed on speaking time on Report Stage in order that we do not have, as Deputy emmet Stagg referred to, a discussion on the Title taking up much of the time for the debate. However, the Government has rejected these proposals that I have been making since 2002.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is way over time and now speaking against himself.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I objected to the timeframe for this debate. We do not even have a copy of Standing Orders on which we can work. It was the Fine Gael and Labour Party Whips who blocked Dáil reform in the last Dáil because they could not get one change accepted, namely, that the Taoiseach take Leaders’ Questions on a Thursday. We do not see the Taoiseach here on a Thursday.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I am sharing time with Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I am committed to parliamentary democracy. As a woman, I am always conscious of my rights because I live in a democracy when so many women and girls across the world do not. I agree that we need greater efficiency in our parliamentary democracy and the programme for Government set out certain reforms in this regard. However, decreasing the number of Deputies and constituencies without addressing the work of Members is only window-dressing. Increasing the number of sitting hours and days is not going to bring about greater efficiency, unless one tackles the source of inefficiencies in the first place.

It was seen as a reform to increase the size of the parliamentary committees and widen their agendas. However, as we all know, narrower agendas and smaller committees work much better. It will be interesting to see how this new plan for strategic, sectoral and thematic committees will work. I can imagine the pressure on the four strategic committees and in the vying for a place on them. I hope it will be done fairly.

It has been proposed to increase the time available for debates and the standard sitting week which will, accordingly, reduce the number of occasions on which the guillotine will be used. I know we cannot talk forever on a particular topic, but there still has been an increase in the use of the guillotine. We do not have proper engagement with Ministers except on Topical Issues. How can a system under which a Minister stands up with a prepared script for 20 minutes and who cannot be interrupted be seen as efficient or offering interaction? The system is also weighted against the Independents.

Whether the Dáil, the Oireachtas and the powers that be like it or not, there are 19 independent Deputies, 16 of whom are allied to the Technical Group. Standing Orders must keep up with the democratic will of the people. I do not know where we come in the pecking order but it is very far down, if we are there at all on some stages. Why can the clock not be used during Leaders' Questions to ensure everybody has an equal amount of time? Standing Orders are there to enable and assist parliamentary democracy to work efficiently, effectively and fairly. The language in Standing Orders is archaic and convoluted. Could we not have it in simple sentences, each with a subject, predicate and object?

I have no problem sitting every second Friday provided it is productive and does not descend into what parliamentary debate currently is, namely, vicious slagging matches. This morning was a perfect example of that. We are talking about greater engagement with civil society in the pre-legislative stage. We are denying civil society the opportunity to come in and use the audio-visual room. I cannot understand where that is coming from. I was with a disability group yesterday. They cannot come in here and meet their Deputies, in a place that is wheelchair accessible and free of charge. That is not as it should be.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Independent)
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On a point of order-----

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I will take the Deputy's point of order after Deputy Donnelly has spoken. He has only two minutes.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Independent)
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Is there any speaking time for the group of "others"?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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It was all decided on the Order of Business.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Independent)
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Then I want to come in on a point of order after Deputy Donnelly.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Independent)
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I will support this, not because I think it will lead to much change, but because I will take a very small improvement over no improvement. I am very disappointed that there have been no changes to make the Dáil more family-friendly. This was clearly the time to do that. I will warmly support the pre-legislative changes when they come in next January. That is the real, substantive change that has been proposed. However, none of this will address the real problem - a Dáil that does not legislate. There is no better example of that than this room now.

Let us stop and look at what is happening. This is the 50 minute debate on Dáil reform. We all say we want Dáil reform, we are passionate about it. We work very hard to get in here and when we are here, so we want the Dáil to work. We have 50 minutes to debate Dáil reform, and nobody is here. This should be a vibrant, healthy, robust debate about what all the Members of Dáil Éireann want for us as parliamentarians, but nobody is here because this is not a debate. It is 50 minutes of us standing up, talking for two minutes and then sitting down. We all know, long ahead of time, that not a single letter of the motion will be changed by anything that would be said in the 50 minutes, so Deputies from all sides are absent. That is the problem.

In the first few days of this Dáil, when I was a new Member, I was very taken by Deputy Stagg's statement that this is a House of legislation, we are legislators. I took that to heart and tried to input to legislation, most of the time in a constructive manner, I hope. I examined the number of legislative amendments put by Government Deputies. The House is full of smart, energetic, good, hard-working, brilliant Government Deputies and by and large, with a few exceptions, they do not table amendments because they are not allowed.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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That is not true.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Independent)
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Maybe, but they certainly do not do it.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Government Deputies have other fora.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Independent)
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Parliaments do not work like this in other countries. This centralised control is unique to Ireland. It does not have to be like this. The only way it will ever work is not by changing the time we begin or a few bits and pieces, but by the Cabinet of the day - this Cabinet or the next one - relinquishing control and letting this House breathe and do its work. Hopefully we might see some of that.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Timmins wishes to make a point of order. I hope it is a point of order.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Independent)
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It is. I protest against the deliberate ploy by the Government to frustrate the intention of the Ceann Comhairle when speaking time was allocated so that I, as a member of the "others" group, have no speaking time today. This is not a debate. Little more than 5% of people have made a contribution here. No Government backbencher has got to speak, maybe Deputy Tuffy. I have not been afforded an opportunity to speak. It is a complete and utter farce, as was the budget process.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I must stop the Deputy. That is not a point of order.

Joe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Timmins will make the television.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Independent)
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We have budgetary measures of which Government Ministers do not know the implications. I am sorry if I appear to be out of order but I have no opportunity to say anything.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Come on, Billy.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Independent)
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If the Government continues to try to treat people such as me and some of my colleagues as political piranhas, we will behave accordingly. I put the Government on notice that we will make this House unworkable if the Government continues with its behind-the-scenes measures.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please resume your seat, Deputy. I must put the question.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Independent)
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They think they are smart with their petty, small-minded measures, as represented by the timing in this debate. This is an outrage. This is not a debate. It is a complete and utter farce that does justice to nobody, inside or outside this House.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Timmins will be on the one o'clock news; he is okay.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Independent)
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We are not trying to manipulate the news, like the Government.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please resume your seat. I repeat that this was decided on the Order of Business.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Independent)
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This is very important.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Deputy.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Independent)
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The Ceann Comhairle announced a measure and the Government has totally disregarded it.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I have already said this was decided on the Order of Business.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Independent)
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Time has been allocated on every occasion purposely to exclude us. These measures are a farce.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Please resume your seat and take that up with the Ceann Comhairle.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Independent)
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We will take it up with the Ceann Comhairle.