Dáil debates

Tuesday, 18 October 2011

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed)

Departmental Offices

3:00 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach if he is satisfied with the resources available to offices under the auspices of his Department for the drafting of legislation. [24730/11]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am advised by the Attorney General that there are currently 27 permanent and three contract staff in the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel engaged in drafting legislation. I am sure the Deputy is aware that there is a large increase in the demand for legislation arising from the current Government legislation programme, including the significant work required on sensitive and urgent EU-IMF-related legislation. In addition, a considerable amount of the legislation produced is technical and complicated, and requires a great deal of legal advice and sharing of different iterations of drafts with Departments to ensure Government policy is properly reflected in the final draft.

The resources available for drafting have, notwithstanding the increasing demands, been able to meet the needs of the Government. However, the complement of staff in the office is kept under constant review. I am informed that, following such a review, a business case has recently been submitted to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform in regard to the office's needs over the coming 18 to 24 months. Discussions have been held with the Department and a response to those discussions is expected shortly.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The question I asked was whether the Taoiseach is satisfied with the resources available to the offices under the auspices of his Department for drafting legislation. I am conscious that much legislation was promised and identified but has not come through the system on time. For example, the corporate donations Bill is a classic example in that one would have expected it to be brought in before the presidential election in order to ban corporate donations for that election. The referendum Bills are another case in point in that there is no question but that both referendum Bills were rushed too quickly through the House, there was no proper advanced consultation-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy. This is Question Time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, I am just putting this point to the Taoiseach. Does he agree there was undue haste on the two referendum Bills and much concern and anxiety now exists in regard to understanding what those referenda are about? Most people I meet do not know what they are about, which reflects the lack of lead-in time. We should have had the legislation before the summer recess, but there are obviously pressures on-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy. We are straying.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are not. This relates to the legislative programme.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No. The Deputy asked if the Taoiseach is satisfied with the resources available to the office.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes - resources to draft legislation. The reason I ask this is simply that many Bills have not come through and there have been rushed referendum Bills, which is not good for public discourse.

It seems that the existing resources are not adequate. The Taoiseach referred in his reply to the business case. Has he read the business case submitted to the Minister? Does it specifically ask for additional capacity to enable the legislative programme to be completed properly, as befits a modern Parliament, with due time for the Members to consider the legislation in the months ahead?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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To be totally honest, I would prefer to have extra staff in the parliamentary draftsman section. The Deputy will be aware that in recent years, the average production from the section has been approximately 40 Bills per year, as it has produced approximately 40 Bills in each of the last three years. The A list of the current Government legislation programme gives a commitment to publish 30 Bills in this session alone, the reason being that quite a number of them are timelined as a requirement from the EU-IMF-ECB deal. For instance, a Bill for the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform was published on 29 September, a Bill for the Department of Justice and Equality was published on 12 October, a second Bill for the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation was published on 29 September, the Health (Provision of General Practitioner Services) Bill was published on 30 September and the European Financial Stability Facility and Euro Area Loan Facility (Amendment) Bill 2011 was published on 16 September.

I would like to think we will have a more leisurely approach to the production of legislation but obviously I refer to the constraints and pressures on the people involved. As Deputy Martin will be aware from his own time, the staff concerned have come into work on weekend after weekend and have worked on Saturdays and Sundays to deal with this. The business case that has been submitted to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform is for two additional contract drafting staff. They would have a high level of drafting experience and would be engaged on short-term contracts of approximately one year's duration to assist with the immediate demand for drafting complex legislation. For the longer term, the ambition is to seek to recruit two additional permanent staff. These staff would receive extensive training as drafters and as a consequence would increase the office's drafting capacity for the medium and longer term. I agree this section is under real pressure to get some of these legislative items out. For instance, I note the Legal Services Regulation Bill is 300 pages in length and, consequently, the pressure on the personnel working there is quite intense. They have measured up in an astounding fashion to date. The business case made to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform is for two additional contract drafters and, for the longer term, for two permanent appointments.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In respect of the contracted staff, does the Taoiseach envisage expanding the use of contracted staff, particularly in the context of legislation that would lead to constitutional referendums, on the basis that a good timeline into referendums genuinely is needed? The last two Bills were very rushed and the results now are evident in the context of the discussion that is under way. In respect of the proposed children's referendum and any Bills that may emanate from the constitutional convention, does the Taoiseach agree there is a case to be made for a separate approach or additional capacity, such as contracting in people, to work specifically on that particular area?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do. The contract drafters would be expert drafters, who would be given shorter-term contracts of approximately one year to assist with really complex issues in respect of legislation being drafted. The longer-term proposal is to have two further permanent drafters. I might add that the business case also includes an application for two legislative editor positions. A legislative editor is a person who looks for technical errors such as spelling, grammar or formatting errors, as well as the accuracy of cross-referencing and so on. They also will review the text for sense, clarity and logic, as well as providing the drafters with feedback on how well the meaning of a provision has actually been communicated. Legislative editors are on a payscale that is much lower than that for drafters and, consequently, the work they would do would free up the drafters to be able to concentrate more on their specific and particular expertise in the area of complex drafting. As a general rule, any business case like this would seek approval for the filling of any casual vacancies that might arise for one reason or another during the course of a year. The position is that the business case seeks two contract drafters with shorter-term contracts and in the longer term for two permanent positions and two legislative editors at a much lower payscale than the drafters.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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To clarify, is the Taoiseach stating that Bills have been delayed because of these capacity constraints? On a related matter, has the Attorney General given the Taoiseach a legal opinion on the British Government's failure to honour the Weston Park agreement for an inquiry into the murder of Belfast human right solicitor, Pat Finucane?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a separate question.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The answer to the Deputy's first question is "No". Bills have been produced on time or very close to time, some of which have been quite extensive while others have been extremely complex. As I stated, the House owes great credit to the Attorney General and her staff for working weekend after weekend on Saturdays and Sundays to meet the conditions of timelined legislation that has been required by the EU-IMF-ECB memorandum of understanding. As I stated to Deputy Martin, while the production of legislation in each of the past three years averaged approximately 40 Bills, the requirement in this session because of the pressure is for 30 Bills. As we move through next year, it may become a little less intense in that quite a number of these legislative items will have gone through the Houses.

The Attorney General has not given me, nor have I asked for, her opinion on the Finucane case. The Government's position on this issue has been quite clear. Before the Deputy was elected to this House, the Dáil unanimously approved a motion tabled in my name for an inquiry to be held into the Finucane case. This arose from the clear statement of Judge Peter Cory in which he recommended, following an initial trawl of information about a number of cases, that inquiries should be held. This is the reason the Smithwick inquiry is under way and is the reason the Government will give approval to an extension to that inquiry at the request of Mr. Justice Smithwick. The Government is clear on this position. As the Deputy is aware, the Tánaiste met the Finucane family yesterday. I spoke to the Tánaiste before he travelled to Japan last weekend, I answered questions in the House on this issue and the Government is clear that it is not moving from the position the Dáil has adopted of a requirement for an inquiry in this regard. I do not need advice on this issue from the Attorney General. While I do on many other issues, I am very clear about that.