Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 6, motion re appointment of the chairperson of the Standards in Public Office Commission; No. 7, motion re appointment of an ordinary member of the Standards in Public Office Commission; No. 9, statement on European Council, Brussels. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: there shall be no suspension of sitting under Standing Order 23(1); the Dáil shall adjourn on the conclusion of Questions to the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, which shall be taken after Private Members' business for 75 minutes and in the event of a private notice question being allowed, it shall be taken after 45 minutes; and the order shall not resume thereafter; Nos. 6 and 7 shall be decided without debate; the proceedings on No. 9, shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 80 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes, and shall be confined to the Taoiseach and to the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order, who may share their time, and which shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; immediately following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall take questions for a period not exceeding 20 minutes; and the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 30 January 2008.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are four proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that there shall be no suspension of sitting under Standing Order 23(1) today agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 6 and 7, without debate, motions re appointment of chairperson and ordinary member of the Standards in Public Office Commission, agreed?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have no objection to No. 6 which is the appointment of the chairperson of the Standards in Public Office Commission, Justice Matthew P. Smith. I wish to object to No. 7 and I shall explain why. Last Wednesday I had a phone call from the Tánaiste in respect of the proposal to make an appointment of an ordinary member to the Standards in Public Office Commission. I accept fully the Tánaiste's word that he inadvertently or did not appreciate the need for consultation with members of the Opposition in respect of this appointment. I accept that fully and I accept that it is his right to make a nomination. I wish to make the following points. Obviously when this was the end of tenure of a member of the Opposition, former Deputy and Minister, Liam Kavanagh of the Labour Party, it should have been clear that there should have been consultation about it. The Tánaiste made an offer to rotate these positions after six years given that the tenure is a six-year term. That is four years before the end of the world, according to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

Deputies:

He could be wrong.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The icebergs will all have melted by then.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We will have no ice for our drinks.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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What concerns me is that when the last position offered by the Government was given to an Opposition Member, that Member was chosen by the Government in the person of the Leas-Cheann Comhairle. There was no consultation, just a direct approach and nomination.

I have nothing against the former Minister, Mr. Michael Smith, with whom I served in the House for many years. However, he has only recently left office and would have served with all the members of the current Government. While there is no implication that Mr. Smith has ever done anything wrong — I do not remotely suggest this — he is listed as a person who will give evidence at the Mahon tribunal.

I do not want to divide the House on the issue. I would prefer if the Taoiseach went ahead with the appointment of Mr. Justice Smith as chairperson of the commission and deferred the appointment of an ordinary member until such time as there is proper consultation between the Government and Opposition to find how we can work out an agreed personality.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I agree with the comments made by Deputy Kenny. I raised this issue last week and tabled an amendment to the Government motion today in the terms Deputy Kenny has outlined, namely, that we would proceed with the reappointment of Mr. Justice Smith as chairperson of the Standards in Public Office Commission and that the appointment of the ordinary member would be deferred to allow for consultation and discussion between the parties in the House. The Ceann Comhairle has ruled that the amendment is inadmissible for the reasons he outlined in a letter to me, which I accept.

There is no issue with regard to Mr. Michael Smith's suitability or otherwise for appointment. The issue is that this is an appointment that is made following a resolution of the House and there should be consultation between the parties on that matter. As Deputy Kenny pointed out, the Tánaiste made an offer during the week that he would appoint a member of the Opposition to this position when it arises again in six years' time.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Whoever holds the office.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That must have been said tongue in cheek.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I thank the Tánaiste for the offer but I was hoping that in six years' time there might be a different Opposition. While I have to admire the Tánaiste's confidence that he will be in a position to deliver, nevertheless, it will not solve the problem.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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My confidence is far better founded than the Deputy's.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I would not count on that. It will be a long six years.

Of all positions, this is a position the Government should not have decided to take for one of its own, which is what has happened.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I do not want to go on about it as I raised the matter last week. It should not be done in this way as there should have been consultation. If we want to avoid a division on the issue, the Taoiseach should accept the proposal being made by Deputy Kenny and myself that we would defer No. 7, discuss the problem and try to work out some resolution.

The appointment of the ordinary member should be done by agreement of the House. It is not like an appointment to an ordinary State board in the ordinary way. This is the body that oversees ethics and standards legislation. It is not desirable that there should be a political row over the appointment. Therefore, the best way to proceed is to deal with No. 6 and reappoint the chairperson, and then let us discuss the appointment of the ordinary member and see what can be done to resolve the matter.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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As with earlier speakers, I have no issue with the appointment of former Deputy Michael Smith and wish him well if that appointment is to proceed. My issue is a different one. On reading the Order of Business with regard to statements on the European Council, the Taoiseach clearly referred to "the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin". My issue with the Taoiseach and Tánaiste is that in any of these consultation matters, there is an onus to consult all of the political parties and to include Sinn Féin.

It is not just a matter of deliberations with Fine Gael and the Labour Party, irrespective of numbers, nor are they the sole representatives of Opposition voices in this Chamber. Our democracy will be measured by the way the smaller parties are treated by the larger blocs. It is imperative, and as a matter of practice into the future I make the point, that we are here to play our part in deliberations, consultations and decision-making. I would appreciate it if the Government would accord us the same courtesy on this matter and on all other relevant matters into the future.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I accept the acknowledgement by Members of the suitability of the candidate. They have made their point with regard to consultation and they have accepted the bona fides of the Tánaiste in talking to the Opposition about what happened. Mr. Liam Kavanagh, who is a former Member of the House and Minister, was appointed six or seven years ago and did a very good job in this regard. We are now putting forward another former Minister and Member of the House and we hope he will do a good job also. While we accept the point made, we must proceed with the appointment.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal agreed?

Deputies:

No.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. 9 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal that the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 30 January 2008 agreed? Agreed. I call Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the latest U-turn on the child care scheme announced by the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Brendan Smith, yesterday. This was impossible to do a while ago but I would like to refer to a number of features of the scheme. First, a new category is being introduced comprising low income families, which are just above the family income supplement threshold. A payment of €45 per week will be provided but I am not sure how that was evaluated or whether it will make a meaningful contribution for parents in that category. Second, the Minister of State issued a press release yesterday but the details of the scheme were not circulated and they have not been adopted by the House. Will the Taoiseach indicate when that will happen? Third, the Government stated clearly it wanted to evaluate the scheme. The Department has extensive information on incomes and other questions answered by parents. In order that every Member and every party and none would be fully acquainted with the scheme, 95% of which was proposed by Deputy Shatter on behalf of the Fine Gael Party some time ago, is it the Taoiseach's intention to publish the evaluation so that all Members will be fully briefed on the extent of the changes, the details and the recommendations in this regard?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is there legislation on this matter?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Legislation is not required. I congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Brendan Smith, who travelled throughout the country and listened to all the groups who had views on this.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Unlike the Minister for Education and Science.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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He did not have much choice.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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He has implemented changes to the community care scheme that are highly helpful.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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He should have listened in the House first.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The community child care subvention scheme is part of a €575 million national child care investment programme. It was announced last July to replace the staffing levels under the equal opportunities programme and it is targeted at community child care providers. The Minister of State, Deputy Brendan Smith, has repeated the impact of the scheme and has given out all the details. Anything else would be questioned. He has outlined the bands and legislative changes are not required.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach is not in order.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I record the Labour Party's objection to the fact that the Dáil will not sit again until 30 January 2008. That is the latest date for the return of the House since 2002. For instance, in 2004 the Dáil returned on 20 January. The tradition of the House not returning until the end of January goes back to when the budget was announced at the end of that month and the logic at the time was the Government needed the month of January to prepare the budget. Clearly that does not apply anymore and there is no justification for the Dáil not returning until the end of January. There is a strong case for it returning earlier next year.

For example, because of the way St. Patrick's Day and Easter fall next year, there will only be 20 days in the next session. The Taoiseach has repeatedly stated that Bills will be published before the next session. The A list contains 13 Bills that are due to be published before the beginning of the next session and, presumably, they will have to be taken in that 20-day period. This follows a year in which we have sat for only 76 days. Even allowing for the election, that is probably a record low in the history of the House. The Labour Party is opposed to the adjournment of the Dáil until 30 January 2008.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I refer to the matter raised by Deputy Kenny. Having heard the Taoiseach's response, there are still concerns about the enhanced proposition relating to the community child care subvention scheme. I welcome the expansion by the Minister of State, Deputy Brendan Smith, of the various tiers and the supports under same. I noted this morning's welcome by the community child care sector of the improvements in principle, but we do not have access to the thresholds for the determination of low income.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have ruled on this issue. We cannot go into this.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is in order.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is the Deputy's interpretation, which is incorrect.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We need to know the detail because people are continuing to lobby and ask pertinent questions. The key issue is if the threshold is too low, it will simply not make sufficient difference and many people will continue to suffer in 2008. I ask the Minister of State, the Taoiseach and the Government to listen to those who are lobbying for improvements in this area.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should table a question. He is not in order.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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On promised legislation, which does not reflect on the Taoiseach's forays into choir singing, when is the abatement of local neighbourhood noise Bill likely to come before the House?

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I hope it applies in here.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Will the Taoiseach outline the date for the European treaty referendum? To encourage Ministers who are sometimes reluctant to come into the House, legislation regarding the protection of persons from enforced disappearance is due before the House. It would be helpful for the next session if the Government Front Bench was full.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Bills are due next year. I do not have a date for the referendum.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Has the House dealt with proposal No. 4?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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It was not put to the House.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It was.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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It was not agreed.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy missed his break.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I have asked this question virtually every day since the end of November. The Taoiseach, on 6 November, and the Minister for Health and Children, on 7 November, promised us that we would have the Ann O'Doherty report by the end of November. This is the last day of the Dáil session and there is no sign of it and we have no answers.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is out of order and he still persists in asking the question.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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It is not a matter that is out of order for the women of Portlaoise and the midlands. They would like to know what happened and why they were placed in such a position.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is out of order under Standing Orders.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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The continued refusal of the Minister for Health and Children, the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste to provide this information is nothing short of scandalous.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is completely out of order.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I refer to the matter raised by Deputy Kenny. The press release by the Minister of State, Deputy Brendan Smith, as reported in today's newspapers, is completely ambiguous regarding parents who seek child care services. The implication is that parents on low incomes will receive €45 a week, but that will only happen if they have a preschool place. In my constituency, 200 children are on waiting lists for places.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have ruled on this. The Taoiseach said no legislation was promised. The Deputy is out of order.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Switch on the Deputy's microphone.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Burton is completely out of order.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Is it in order for a Member's microphone to be switched off when he or she is speaking?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The difficulty is that I have ruled the matter raised by Deputy Burton to be out of order.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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It is not in order for his or her microphone to be switched off. Has the Chair a new ruling on that?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ruled on this matter already and I must stick to my ruling. I have ruled other Members out of order and told them they cannot speak on this matter. I must treat everybody fairly. Deputy Burton knows, as does Deputy Stagg, that the matter is not in order.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will it be necessary for the Minister to introduce----

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Deputy Burton is entitled to have her microphone switched on.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Members know that the Deputy is out of order in raising this matter. She is out of order.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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——legislation to distinguish between provision for a child whose parents will receive a subvention of €45 a week under the scheme from the State——

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is a matter for the Adjournment.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach said no legislation will be introduced on it.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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——and for children who are cared for at home whose parents will not receive any such money from the Minister concerned?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Ciarán Lynch.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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It is Christmas and parents are trying to provide for their children.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is out of order in raising this matter.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will it be necessary for the Government to introduce legislation on this area? I believe it will have to do so.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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No.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach said "No" to that question.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Can I have an answer on this matter? If legislation is not introduced on it, the matter will end up in the courts.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can the Taoiseach confirm that no legislation on this area is required? I understand that is what he said earlier.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is correct.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Lynch.

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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Under the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, will measures be introduced to outlaw the purchase of Samarai swords? A decision was made to do that in the United Kingdom last week. I raise this matter because in three incidents that occurred in the past week Samarai swords, purchased in shops, were used to assault gardaí and citizens in Louth, Dublin and in my constituency of Cork South-Central.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The raising of the issue of Samarai swords is not relevant to the Order of Business unless legislation is promised in regard to them, and it is not.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is a relevant issue.

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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With respect, there is a list of banned weapons and the weapons on it are not half as dangerous as these swords.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Ceann Comhairle might need one.

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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Does the Minister concerned intend to introduce legislation on this matter?

Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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They are banned.

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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They are not banned.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No legislation is promised on them.

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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I have the list of the banned weapons and the Samarai sword is not on it.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised on this area, Taoiseach?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The only Bill in this area is the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, which will be published in January.

Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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I asked the Taoiseach earlier in the week if it is the Government's intention to ratify the Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Families and Members of their Families. I repeated that question to the Tánaiste. I have not heard from either of their offices on the Government's intention. Is it the Government's intention to ratify this convention and, if so, when will it be ratified?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have asked for a letter to be sent to the Deputy. I will check on that today for the Deputy.