Dáil debates

Thursday, 8 November 2007

Other Questions

Naval Service Vessels.

4:00 pm

Photo of Ulick BurkeUlick Burke (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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Question 6: To ask the Minister for Defence the number of proposals received following stage 1 of the competition for the purchase of the two offshore patrol vessels with an option of a third, and one extended patrol vessel, with an option on a second; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27761/07]

Photo of Bernard AllenBernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 19: To ask the Minister for Defence the projected cost of new ships for the Naval Service to be purchased over the next five years and the financing arrangements that have been made for this; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27750/07]

Photo of Tom KittTom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 and 19 together.

The Naval Service provides the maritime element of the Defence Forces and has a general responsibility to meet contingent and actual maritime defence requirements. In the 2000 White Paper on Defence, the Government decided that the Naval Service would be based on an eight-ship flotilla and committed to a modernisation and replacement strategy to maximise the operational capacity of those eight vessels. The White Paper specifically provides that "new vessels will be brought on stream to replace older ones as these fall due for replacement". Naval Service vessels are generally replaced when they have come to the end of their useful life, which is normally approximately 30 years. Three ships will fall due for replacement over the next few years — LE Emer, commissioned in 1978, LE Aoife, commissioned in 1979 and LE Aisling, commissioned in 1980.

Following a detailed examination of the needs of the Naval Service a vessel replacement strategy has been put in place to cover the period up to 2012. The vessel replacement strategy combined with a continual process of refurbishment will ensure that the operational capability of the Naval Service is commensurate with the roles assigned to it.

Following Government approval in July 2007 to go to tender, notice of a competition for the purchase of replacement vessels for the Naval Service was sent to the EU Journal on 24 August 2007. The competition for the purchase of two offshore patrol vessels, with an option of a third and one extended patrol vessel, with an option on a second, will be subject to a restricted procurement procedure in accordance with EU procurement directives. The process comprises two stages — stage 1, a request for proposals, and stage 2, an invitation to tender. The closing date for stage 1 - receipt of proposals — was 26 October 2007. Following evaluation of proposals, a detailed specification will issue to those invited to participate in stage 2. The evaluation of stage 1 proposals and the preparation of the detailed specification for stage 2 is ongoing. The invitation to tender is expected to issue in May 2008, with tenders due in July-August. Following detailed tender evaluation, it is intended to award a contract in late 2008-early 2009. To ensure the integrity of the competition process, I will not release details relating to the numbers and-or names of the respondents to the request for proposals until the entire competition process has concluded.

The decision to proceed with the final award of contract to purchase the vessels will be subject to further Government approval and agreement on funding, the full requirement for which will not be known until the tender competition has concluded, and, therefore, financing arrangements have not been put in place. It is expected the cost of the three new ships will be of the order of €180 million, excluding VAT. Once details of costs are known, funding arrangements will be a matter for further consideration in consultation with the Minister for Finance in the context of the Estimates process. It is expected the vessels will be delivered on a phased basis between 2010 and 2012.

Photo of Jimmy DeenihanJimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive reply but I am disappointed he is unable to reveal the number of applications and other details of the procurement process. Will provision be made in this year's Estimates for the funding for the procurement of three vessels if the project is going to tender in May? Has consideration been given to the manning of the vessels? They will be new and modern and will require an increased staffing complement. Have plans been put in place to ensure personnel will be available when the vessels are commissioned?

The Minister of State will be aware of the general low morale among Naval Service staff. The report, A Voyage of Understanding, stated morale among Navy personnel is quite low. This is understandable because they operate in antiquated, rough conditions. I hope to take a trip in a naval vessel next January to experience the conditions in which naval personnel sleep, eat and so on. What provision is being made in the Estimates for the commissioning of the ships? Has consideration been given to the staffing of the ships when they are acquired?

Photo of Tom KittTom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I outlined the ongoing process, which comprises tendering and so on, and the timescale attaching to it. Once details of the costs are known, funding arrangements will be a matter for further consideration in consultation with the Minister for Finance in the context of the Estimates process. That will kick in at a certain time. Many of the ships have a set lifespan. The LE Emer was commissioned in 1978, for example. Part of the costings is the sale of the old vessels. The value of a ship will be determined by the market when it is offered for sale. As vessels will not be withdrawn from service until shortly before the commissioning of the replacements, it would be unwise to say anything that might influence that process. The sale, for example, of the LE Deirdre in 2001, the most recent vessel to be disposed of, realised €270,000. The old vessels must be sold and one can tell, on the basis of the date they were commissioned, when they are due for release. They have to be sold and the new vessels purchased. The Estimates process will kick in at the appropriate time.

I take on board the Deputy's comments regarding morale and staffing. Morale is an issue to which attention is paid by the Department and the Minister at all times. Plans must be made on staffing in conjunction with planning for the increased number of ships.

Photo of Brian O'SheaBrian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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I take it that state of the art will be the criterion for accommodation and eating facilities on board the new vessels. The Minister of State referred to the assigned roles for the vessels. Has thought gone into enhancing their role in support of the civil authorities, for example, in intercepting illegal shipments of drugs and so on into the State? When the vessels are commissioned in 2010, will they enhance the capability of the Naval Service and the civilauthorities to deal more effectively with this issue?

Photo of Tom KittTom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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On the basis of the analysis conducted, the group concluded that two different types of vessels are required to allow the Naval Service to continue to have a presence and to undertake its assigned tasks throughout Ireland's 200 mile exclusive economic zone into the future. Vessels are expected to remain in service for 30 years. Issues such as deteriorating sea and weather conditions must also be taken into account.

With regard to the role of the new ships, the vessels will undertake the standard range of duties assigned to the Naval Service, including fisheries protection, search and rescue, maritime protection, drug interdiction, anti-pollution and maritime security. The ships will carry primary and secondary armaments, similar to those deployed on the current vessels. Details of the exact type and number will be decided at a later date in the context of the final design and specification for the vessels. Clearly, state-of-the-art equipment will be sought. The Minister and the Department are keen that the best equipment would be used for the staff.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive response. Does the Government accept the use of the offshore patrol vessels will be an important part of a strategy to deal with crime and particularly the importation of drugs? Does the Minister of State accept that, in conjunction with these vessels, the use of smaller vessels along our coastline could also be effective in targeting the gangs who import drugs and who are destroying our young people and causing major havoc on the streets of Dublin? He mentioned a cost of approximately €180 million for the offshore vessels. Over how many years will that amount be spent?

Photo of Tom KittTom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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The costs will have to be worked out as the process evolves because when the ships have been commissioned, their lifespan of 30 years must be included in calculations. For example, the LE Emer was commissioned in 1978, the LE Aoife in 1979, the LE Aisling in 1980 and the LE Eithne in 1984. Costs will arise through an incremental period.

I agree with the Deputy that drug trafficking is a key issue to be addressed, particularly on the basis of recent examples. Responsibility for the prevention of drug trafficking and other such illegal activities rests primarily with the Garda and the Revenue Commissioners. However, the White Paper on Defence provides for a security role for the Naval Service to assist and support the civil authorities in this important work. There is close co-operation between the civil authorities and the Naval Service in this important area. In particular, the larger vessel proposed will enable the Naval Service to patrol over a greater range and for longer periods than is possible at present and accordingly will provide an added deterrent to likely drug traffickers.

The Deputy is right in saying we need a combination of larger and smaller vessels. In fact, I understand there are three types: the CPV, the coastal patrol vessel; the OPV, the offshore patrol vessel; and the EPV, the extended patrol vessel. They are looking at all of these options. Also, bulk buying is an issue. Two can be bought instead of one, for instance. There is much work to be done, the process is ongoing and we have to meet the requirements because of the lifespan of these vessels. We certainly take on board what Deputies have said here today.

Photo of Jimmy DeenihanJimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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Although I did not put down the question, I suppose I can, nonetheless, take credit for it.

Photo of Tom KittTom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy, and I am sorry.

Photo of Jimmy DeenihanJimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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It is an old skill, to piggyback on another Deputy's questions.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Keep it going.

Photo of Jack WallJack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
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The Deputy has another short supplementary.

Photo of Jimmy DeenihanJimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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I am very magnanimous in this House. Definitely, the three vessels in question are both unsafe and uneconomical at this stage, as I am sure the Minister of State will agree. As he says, the useful life of a ship is 30 years. Will he agree these vessels are totally inadequate to police our 132,000 square miles of water, from a fishery viewpoint, and we have EU obligations to patrol our entire fishery ground, which is up to 200 miles offshore? We are not doing that adequately since we do not have the capacity for it. That is why as well as replacing these vessels we should add to our flotilla as well. Apart from the objective of eight in the flotilla are there plans for any additional vessels, smaller faster ones, as Deputy Finian McGrath said, that could enter coves and be very good for detecting drug shipments, which apparently are coming into Ireland virtually on a daily basis and we just cannot intercept them?

Photo of Tom KittTom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I obviously agree with the Deputy that ships should be replaced when they come to the end of their useful life. That normally happens after 30 years and it has to be done. Members of all parties support that. The LE Eithne and the LE Ciara will have 30 years service completed in 2014, while the LE Orla will reach that longmark in 2015. What needs to be done is staring us in the face. I accept that there are new issues, particularly drugs, to deal with. There are many other challenges and that is why we are looking at a wide range of ships in this instance. I have great confidence in those who are negotiating this whole process for us.

I mentioned earlier that consultation is taking place with the relevant stakeholders and there is a major analysis under way of the deteriorating weather conditions being experienced in the Atlantic by the Naval Service. There is a good deal of terrain to be dealt with. This is based on the work being done by the vessel replacement study group from data supplied by the Meteorological Office. They are looking at that aspect and at the need for different sizes of ships. The OPVs will be in the 80 m to 90 m range, similar to the LE Róisín and LE Niamh and the EPV will be larger, in the 130 m to 140 m range. They are going about their work in the right way and will certainly report back to the House.