Dáil debates
Tuesday, 3 April 2007
Kyoto Protocol: Motion
7:00 pm
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I move:
That Dáil Ãireann
noting that:
Ireland failed to meet its responsibilities under the Kyoto Protocol and its greenhouse gas emissions are twice the overall target
reland is ranked 22 out of 27 EU countries when it comes to wind, wave and biomass energy generation despite having the best potential energy generation in these sectors; and
only 3% of Ireland's primary energy supply comes from renewables;
conscious of the potential for the State to make a big difference by adjusting its own procurement policies, calls on the Government:
to set a target for a reduction in CO2 emission from each Department and State agency;
to lead by example on environmental issues through a policy of green procurement;
to begin the conversion of all public buildings to green energy;
to begin the conversion of all public service vehicles to bio-fuels in order to reduce the State's carbon footprint; and
to introduce a new system of annual open and transparent reporting which will ensure that every Government agency is held to account every year on its progress.
I seek to share time with Deputies Durkan, Naughten and Olivia Mitchell and request that the Acting Chairman tell me when I have spoken for 14 minutes.
This is one of the most important motions that could be before the House and the fact that it is being raised in one of Fine Gael's last opportunities for Private Members' time signifies the importance of the issue to us, the country, all civilisation and the Earth.
The lack of progress on carbon emissions is clear when one looks back on the ten years the Government has spent in office. While our population has grown greatly and our cities have developed in many ways, our quality of life has disimproved. When I was first elected to the Seanad in 1997, after the Government took office, the Balbriggan bypass had not been finished nor had the motorway from the Border to Dublin, but a car journey from Drogheda to Dublin was shorter by as much as 30 to 45 minutes in the morning. This journey will now take up to two hours due to congestion on the city streets.
The Government has failed because, while it has provided money for roads and such infrastructure, it has not provided money for public transport. There is currently no park and ride facility on the route I mentioned for those approaching the city from the North. A park and ride facility makes sense because it would allow people to link up with public transport for an efficient journey to the city.
The Government has not displayed joined-up thinking on climate change and Ireland has particularly failed to meet its responsibilities under the Kyoto Protocol as its greenhouse gas emissions are twice the overall target. Ireland is ranked 22nd of 27 EU countries when it comes to wind, wave and biomass energy generation despite having the best potential energy generation in these sectors. Some 83% of Ireland's recyclable waste is exported and transport emissions are up 140% since 1990. I heard a figure of 160% mentioned in this regard last night so we are not doing our jobs. Only 3% of Ireland's primary energy supply comes from renewable sources.
This, frankly, is an utter disgrace that is heightened by the attitude of the Government to its failure. The Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, is not contrite, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, is not apologetic and the Taoiseach, in the course of his final speech to the Fianna Fail árd fheis, did not mention the environment once. That is correct, 30 minutes, 53 promises, billions of euro in commitments and nothing on energy, nothing on climate change and nothing on the future of the planet. Instead of combating the problem, the Government benches deny that there is a problem.
Yesterday the Minister, Deputy Roche, announced the second national climate change strategy without any sense of embarrassment at how spectacularly the previous strategy had flopped. The first climate strategy was predicated on the significant economic growth the country was experiencing. Many European countries had to aim for emissions below their 1990 levels but we were set a level of 13% above our 1990 level. Therefore, there was an acknowledgement of our significant economic growth at the time. The Government has no excuse as it was given the best possible formula, yet it failed to solve the problem.
Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats' ten years in power has seen an environmental record of broken promises and abandoned strategies, and their performance on the environment provides far more insight than the Minister's pronouncements. The Government's true commitment to climate change was revealed when it shelved the first national climate change strategy and yesterday's desperate death bed conversion to the environmental agenda will fool nobody.
A Government that keeps its promises and leads the way on reducing emissions is needed and that is why we are using our Private Members' time this week to outline how this can be done. I hope the Government and the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, who is here tonight, will support this motion in securing the long-term future of the environment but, considering the Governments record on this issue, that seems too much to hope for.
I make no apology for stating the State has the power to lead by example on this issue. According to the 2005 annual report of the Office of Public Works, â¬55 million was spent by the central procurement service. This includes â¬13 million on fuels, â¬11.5 million on vehicles, â¬10 million on printing and â¬5 million on stationery and office supplies. Just imagine the difference an effective green procurement policy would make. Imagine if, instead of buying oil, the OPW was stimulating demand for bio-fuels. Imagine if, instead of buying cars that pollute the atmosphere, the OPW was instructed to replace the fleet with hybrid cars or cars that run completely on renewable sources of fuel. Imagine if every scrap of paper used by the State had to be recycled paper. Not only would this make a difference in itself but the message sent to the rest of the country would be clear.
Ireland is a modern, democratic, welfare state and, as such, the State plays a vital role in the lives of everyone. People have contact with the State every day in a myriad of ways. Imagine if every piece of correspondence they received was printed on recycled paper, if every time they saw a public service vehicle, they knew it ran on biofuel or bio-ethanol. Imagine if all Ministers followed the example of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, by stepping out of an environmentally friendly car instead of a shiny black car? I think the Minister has a Prius, or is it a Lexus?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Lexus is very environmentally friendly.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is why the European Commissioner is changing to one.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Our motion tonight, with which nobody can argue except on petty party political grounds, calls for a sea change in how the State does its business and treats the environment. Fine Gael tonight calls for the setting of a target for a reduction in CO2 emissions from each Department and State agency. This would follow from a complete audit of each agency or Department's carbon footprint and an analysis of what can be done to reduce it.
I welcome very much the e-government initiative and hope it can be furthered. I see no reason, for example, that every citizen in the State should not be allowed to join a system that would allow them to receive all correspondence from State bodies via e-mail rather than in a letter. My experience with the county council and local authorities in County Louth in this regard has been very good and the level of effective official e-mail and Internet usage is high. The Health Service Executive and other State bodies are also doing this and it represents the way forward. It is particularly helpful to get a quick answer to a query that can be passed on to a constituent by e-mail. There may be specific instances when a letter must be sent, but an e-mail could replace 90% of what we receive from the Government.
I recently tabled a parliamentary question on the amount the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government spends on the production of bilingual communications and found that the figure was â¬160,000 last year. I did not receive a breakdown of the figure in the Minister's letter, and I presume people must be paid to write and translate, but it seems that if â¬160,000 is spent on bilingual publications, we should make large cutbacks in the level of printing.
Now that we have an option to receive this material by e-mail, we should stop printing copies of the Order Paper and other documents. Members' efforts to make greater use of computers have fallen by the wayside and we must address the problem.
Private industry is doing good work in the area of e-mail. Allied Irish Bank, for example, has allowed its customers to accept e-statements for their bank and credit card accounts. If bank customers can receive important financial information, State services must be able to find a better way to provide information. The example of AIB may have a lesson for Eircom which sends out two bulky telephone books every year. In an era of competitive directory inquiry services, I suspect telephone books are used with less and less frequency. While questions may arise concerning data protection, Eircom should circulate a default CD-ROM.
The motion calls on the Government to lead by example on environmental issues by adopting a policy of green procurement. This approach is exactly as it appears in that it requires green thinking in the procurement of green cars, recycled paper and so forth.
The motion also calls on the State to begin the conversion of all public buildings to green energy. Such a policy would be of major benefit to the environment and, not least, the fledgling renewable energy sector, which needs a boost. The motion would also compel the State to begin converting all public service vehicles to biofuels to reduce its carbon footprint. While I acknowledge that some work has begun in these areas, what is lacking is a concerted cross-departmental approach which would move beyond incrementalism and small steps and lead to an environmental "Great Leap Forward" that would, in time, result in every Government agency sourcing it electricity from wind, wave or solar energies.
Crucially, the Fine Gael Party is asking the House to support the introduction a new system of annual open and transparent reporting, which would ensure every Government agency is held to account every year on its progress. On so many issues the House lacks the power to properly scrutinise what the Government does, with legislation rushed through, regulators used as an excuse to duck ministerial responsibility and so forth. Under our proposals, the Dáil and Seanad would hold the Government accountable for delivering or failing to deliver on the actions I have described. Fine Gael envisages that an annual report would be presented and debated in the Oireachtas. Crucially, the relevant Ministers â perhaps even the Taoiseach â would be made to answer questions on how and why they had failed and what they intended to do about it.
My party wants the Government to take action on climate change by adopting a strategy that works, rather than adopting three ineffective climate change strategies, as the Government has done. Young people are deeply concerned about the Government's failure to address this issue. Fine Gael has proposed approaches that, I hope, we will soon be in a position to implement. We will publicly, openly and transparently state what we intend to do. We have established policy in all areas of the environment, including the vital energy issue. My colleagues will articulate these views presently. Tonight we are discussing procurement. I ask the Minister and his colleagues on the Government benches to do the decent thing and support us.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thought Deputy O'Dowd was about to ask the Government to do the decent thing and leave office.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We could catch Deputy Durkan unawares.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister is the only person who will be caught unawares.
I support the motion tabled by the Fine Gael Party. An inhabitant of Mars who had spent the past few months in Ireland would be pardoned for concluding that the Government had led a Rip Van Winkle-like existence because, for some unknown reason, it only became aware of the need to become eco-friendly on energy, heating and transport in the past six months or thereabouts. This has resulted in frantic Government activity as members of the public receive a daily dose of propaganda. Almost every day, it issues a press release or holds a major exhibition, conference or other event, all of which give the impression that it has pursued an environmentally friendly policy since taking office. Unfortunately, the truth is vastly different because, like Rip Van Winkle, it has been asleep for a long time. When the Government finally received a rude awakening it decided to take action on this serious issue. As a result, it is frantically peddling in all directions, using energy to beat the band and in an inefficient manner that is unlikely to benefit consumers.
My colleague, Deputy O'Dowd, referred to broken promises. The Government made promises in every area except the environment, which is sad. It has, however, been making noises. The Minister is a dab hand at making all kinds of friendly noises when it suits him.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy is in the presence of the master.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
He can charge up and down the country in his Lexus or Prius and proclaim to all and sundry that he travels in a truly eco-friendly manner and is about to solve our environmental problems. The one positive step the Government has made was to adopt Fine Gael policy on energy, transport and conservation. Although a move in the right direction, it has been obscured by the Government's mad rush to get consultants to make a new policy announcement every day.
Environmental policies need to be developed. In the area of energy the Government must invest in research and development rather than purchasing carbon credits. Alternative energies must be developed because they are ecologically friendly and economically viable and make a contribution to the continuity and security of supply. In light of the importance of employment and competitiveness, these energy sources would also make a meaningful and beneficial contribution to import substitution. The policy is done and dusted and requires nothing more than to be implemented. We do not need further public relations exercises such as those associated with the famous electronic voting machines. I believe we tried to throw them in the river but they would not float.
Instead of complaining and moaning, why does the Government not invest substantially more in the development of bio-crops? Deputy Naughten will elaborate on this issue. Why does it not increase the amount of pure plant oil which will qualify for excise relief? Other countries have done this effectively and, in so doing, are making a contribution towards environmental protection.
Everyone has a role to play on the environment. In recent days, I have observed the relevant Departments circle each other, initially with suspicion, before becoming immersed in a debate. The Departments of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Transport, Finance, Communications, Marine and Natural Resources and Agriculture and Food have common cause and must come together and join up to provide the alternatives required. There are those who will scoff and argue that Ireland cannot produce sufficient alternative fuels and must import them. From where would we import them? It is not a good or eco-friendly idea to import fuel produced in Brazil.
It is not nearly as friendly as to grow it at home, where transport is reduced to a minimum and the benefits to the home economy of the associated employment operate in a way that would not happen elsewhere.
There are areas where the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government could improve matters. Methane gas is floating up to the skies out of every sewage treatment plant in the country even as we speak, boring holes in the ozone layer and creating additional global warming, but nobody says a word about it. It is sad, but that is how it is. Methane is escaping from landfills in my constituency to such an extent that when the machinery broke down, half the people of the countryside became ill due to the inhalation of gas.
The Minister might think that is funny but those involved did not think it funny. As it is only across the county border from the Minister's area, it might escape over that border and up along the hills. One never knows, but the Minister might wake up one morning and look out, bleary eyed, into the vastness of an atmosphere that has become polluted with the same gas. The Minister could do something about this immediately. On numerous occasions in the past five years I have raised the issue of the methane gas in Leixlip in my constituency, where people can arrive at a particular place in the middle of the night and know where they are without rocket science or anything else. The Minister must apply the principles that are required to his Department in a meaningful way. He must do something, let it be beneficial to the economy, the consumer and the environment, but he cannot just keep talking around the subject and doing nothing. It is in his hands.
While my colleague, Deputy Olivia Mitchell, will deal with the area of transport, I wish to raise a constituency issue. The use of trains is hugely beneficial to the environment and the economy in terms of efficiency and of transporting a large number of people rapidly over a large area. Nothing compares with train transport.
I will finish on my next point as my colleagues are getting restive, which is not unknown. My wife brought the following matter to my attention. Why are all Government and public buildings illuminated day and night, with the lights on all the time? Noises have been made in this regard in recent days. I suppose when all the Government heads got together, they realised: "Ouch, why are we using these lights, because they are on all the time." If the aim is to eliminate the overuse of lights, it is a simple matter. One can use mirrors if one wants to conserve energy. There is little difficulty with this and it has been done in many other countries.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Yes, mirrors. Lights on top shine on mirrors below which reflect the light back up â it is as simple as that. It has been done before. I know this technology has not reached the Minister just yet and that it is way above and beyond anything the modern experts in this area might consider, but it is simple and it does not involve rocket science. The Minister might comment on the extent to which he might seek to conserve energy in public buildings, not just in this city but throughout the country, which are currently lit up all night long â I suppose they look good that way.
I remember when all such lights had to be switched off by order.
Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Every second street light in Kildare had to be switched off.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is correct. It was in 1973 or 1974. No rocket science is involved. I bring this to the Minister's attention to lead him gently into the area where the subconscious is pricked to the extent that he will suddenly become alert to the fact that there are many simple issues he can utilise to the benefit of the economy, the environment and the consumer.
The Minister referred in the past few days to energy-efficient light bulbs but I am not sure he has fully evaluated them. He should consider the following points. First, they are expensive, second, they do not show as much light as standard bulbs, third, they do not light up as quickly and, fourth, there might be a sting in the tail for the consumer. The Minister should be careful with regard to these bulbs. My point is that every energy conservation measure is good in its own way but it should also be cost-effective and the benefit to the consumer should be evaluated to ensure we always get the maximum.
Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I commend Deputy O'Dowd on the motion he has tabled. Before I focus on the content of the motion, I wish to deal with an issue to which Deputy O'Dowd referred in regard to procurement and e-mailing. I know the Minister is very efficient in his use of e-mails but it would be no harm if we could ensure the wheelbarrow loads of paper that arrive in Leinster House every week could be dealt with. What goes on here is criminal. We literally take two or three feet of paper from our pigeon holes, bring it up to our offices, throw it in the bins and it then comes back again. There is no need for this and it must stop.
Simple legislation which the Minister could introduce would address the issue. Under current legislation, all Government and agency reports must be circulated to the Members of the Oireachtas. This could be amended so they could be laid in the Oireachtas Library or circulated electronically to Members, rather than having the wheelbarrow loads of paperwork through which we must needlessly tread every week.
I commend the motion because it highlights one of the key issues, namely, 3% of Ireland's primary energy currently comes from renewable sources. There is a major lack of joined-up thinking by the Government on this issue. I read in some of the Sunday newspapers of the Minister's proposals with regard to the national climate change strategy, which refers to "support for combined heat and power projects". Despite this, the Commission for Energy Regulation has decided to abolish the waiver for small renewable energy generators, including combined heat and power units used by businesses, mainly small businesses, whereby they can run and heat their own operations and anything additional can be connected to the national grid. The CER is increasing the charge for small businesses to tap into the grid, which is contrary to the White Paper on Energy. This approach shows the contradictions in Government. One arm of the State is trying to promote something while the other arm is trying to strangle it.
The same applies with regard to the issue of the use of wood-chip in our power stations. The Minister in the document published today states: "Biomass to contribute up to 30% of energy input at peat stations by 2015". With regard to the stations at Shannonbridge and Lanesborough, how is the ESB supposed to break out of the contracts it has already signed with Bord na Móna? Has anyone considered this question? It seems never to have arisen in any discussion on this issue to date. An ideal opportunity has arisen with two new sites being made available in Lanesborough and Shannonbridge through an agreement with the CER. That is welcome; at least the energy regulator is taking some initiative on the issue. Unless we address the legislation with regard to the public service obligation, PSO, which currently has an in-built distortional system in place that promotes peat over other renewable energy sources, these other sources will never be used. It is critical that decisive action is taken on the matter.
The Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, issued proposals recently. It is all very well for him, living as he does in County Meath, to have no difficulty with refuse being brought to Shannonbridge and Lanesborough to be burned. He is not happy to have an incinerator in his area, while the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is not happy to have one in Dublin. However, to dump one on people living in the midlands and pay the ESB to burn refuse there is completely unacceptable and will not ensure we encourage a renewable energy sector.
It is difficult for the Government to realise it, but there is another reason we should promote renewable energy sources, namely, the need for security of supply. This need has gone out the window as far as the Government is concerned. The majority of excise reliefs are for the production of biofuel outside the jurisdiction, which conflicts with and stalls the development of such an industry here. We brought legislation before the House recently to provide for the compulsory blending of biofuels for the transport sector, but the Government blocked its introduction. That legislation would have created an industry and demand for renewable energy supplies and biofuels here. However, the Government was not happy to accept the proposal because it had come from the Opposition.
The Government has been ten years in office, but is only now beginning to look at development of this area and getting bright ideas on it. I disagree with Deputy Durkan on from where those ideas are coming; they have nothing to do with light bulbs. The only reason the Government has got these bright ideas is recent opinion polls show the Green Party is making ground and Fianna Fáil wants to jump on the bandwagon.
I am glad to see the Government has adopted our proposal for the reform of vehicle registration tax, VRT. Why is it, when it had ten years to do this, that it is only on the eve of the general election that it has decided to do this? It would not entertain the idea until now and it was only when Fine Gael came up with the proposal that it decided to think about doing something on the issue. I commend the motion to the House.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The fact that our CO2 emissions per head are the highest in the world and that we are almost totally dependent on imported fossil fuels for energy suggests we have lost the right to promote the country as the clean, green land we like to see it as. We have also lost all moral standing on the issue. We like to see Ireland as a country that defends the future of the planet and criticise others for not making the same effort as us, but the reality is that our efforts amount to zero in the past ten years. As a result, we have lost a significant opportunity for growth.
Our transport system and emissions have been the largest contributors to greenhouse gases in recent years and the increase in our use of energy, but the Government has effected virtually no switch to public transport. Therefore, it is to this area we must look to help cure the problem. In terms of emissions, the transport sector is one of the main creators of the problem. The solution will not be easy, as many opportunities to deal with the issue have been lost in the past ten years. We must now look at a focused and forensic approach to dealing with the task and try to make the process as painless as possible. However, make no mistake about it, there will be pain involved.
If the economy is to grow and we are to sustain and grow current living standards, we must increase mobility for both people and goods and increase trade. We could save energy if there was no growth in the economy or trade, but we want to sustain growth. Therefore, we must use every opportunity to reduce our dependence on non-renewable fossil fuels. We must be imaginative in what we do. For example, my colleague spoke about the Minister's Lexus which is probably just a showpiece. The reality is that thousands of public sector workers, including ourselves, are on mileage allowances which should be rebalanced to encourage the use of smaller fuel efficient cars, just as VRT is being rebalanced. It is not being rebalanced, however, on the eve of the general election, as the change will not take effect until the following year, which makes no sense.
Mobility will be crucial. The challenge is to decouple mobility, growth in the economy and sustainability. A significant change could be made by effecting a switch to public transport, something the Government has failed to do. There is now greater than ever dependence on the private car, leading to huge growth in CO2 emissions as a result of the congestion endemic in every city. Fine Gael policy is to require mandatory blending of bioethanol and bio-diesel, which would reduce our fossil fuel dependence overnight, without requiring modification to cars. A 5% change in the level of dependence on fossil fuels would be an enormous achievement. Deputy Naughten mentioned other Fine Gael policies to encourage growth in the supply of biofuels. The requirement for a mandatory blending of biofuels would kickstart production and create a guaranteed market, thereby reducing our dependence on a volatile and insecure oil supply. It would also reduce emissions. When coupled with the abolition of excise taxes on biofuels â also proposed by Fine Gael â the transition to such fuels could be painless for consumers. The tax advantages need not cost the State anything and could eventually be removed as petrol becomes scarcer and more expensive and biofuels become more available.
It is more important to encourage public enthusiasm for change than to impose carbon taxes or anything else. Public enthusiasm needs to be harnessed. While carbon taxes may be essential, we do not need to introduce them now. We do not need to take that route until we have exploited all the potential incentives to change behaviour and encourage a move away from fossil fuels. We should not let ourselves be bogged down by arguments that we cannot produce the necessary biofuels here. I do not entirely agree with Deputy Durkan in this regard. I see no harm in importing biofuels if we cannot produce them here. It would be better to import biofuels than oil. We should let those Third World countries that have a comparative advantage in the production of biofuels get on with production. The absence of production here should not be a barrier to a switch to biofuels for our cars.
There is huge enthusiasm and environmental concern for a change in our lifestyles to a more sustainable use of resources and a move to renewable energy sources. This is an advantage for any Government which wants to change behaviour. However, the Government must make it easy for people and lead by example. We saw how easy it was to do this when the Government gave people the opportunity to recycle and they took to it like ducks to water. We now recycle infinitely more than we did five years ago. When a good public transport system was provided, the Luas, the people again took to it in the same way. There is public enthusiasm for change, but it is up to the Government to harness it.
Like many other Deputies, I plan to put a jeep on the road to carry my posters etc. around for the general election. I looked for a source of biofuel to use in my diesel jeep for the few weeks it would be on the road and the closest place I could get it was in Athboy, County Meath. This is a small effort on my part, but the scarcity of outlets shows how difficult it is to take even a small step and how far we are from that to which we pretend to aspire.
The Government must not only make change easier for the public, it must also lead by example. We fall down significantly in this regard. If we are serious about changing the culture and public attitudes, the Government must practise what it preaches. It operates huge fleets in the public service via the local authorities, hospitals, the fire brigade service, semi-State companies and public transport companies, but has no embedded green procurement policy. There was a great fanfare about the pilot programme in Dublin Bus to switch to biofuels which turned out to be for five buses and is ongoing. It has never been extended to the fleet and I do not know if it ever will be. The Minister announced that he is involved in a pilot programme for one hybrid bus. That is laughable. Hybrid buses have been operating all over Europe for years. It is hard to take the Government seriously when it publishes policies on this issue.
Although the motion calls on the Government to take various actions, there is little advantage in that because we will not see any great change of attitude. The next Government, which I hope will come from this side of the House, will ensure public transport procurement policies will be green. It will be embedded in every arm of the public sector to ensure that its procurement policies are green-proofed.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I move amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after "Dáil Ãireann" and substitute the following:
"commends the National Climate Change Strategy 2007-2012 and the Energy White Paper, Delivering a Sustainable Energy Future for Ireland".
I thank the Deputies for raising this issue. In recent months this issue has received more attention than most and it is welcome that we have a debate on climate change and environmental issues. I have analysed the Opposition's contributions on this issue and it is interesting that it continues to make five key points, most of which are inaccurate. Without intending to be pedantic, I wish to correct two points Deputy O'Dowd made in a sensible speech. The first has been made by many observers also and suggests that Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions are twice our Kyoto Protocol targets. Our emissions in 2005 were 25% above the 1990 levels, that is, 12% above the Kyoto Protocol targets.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Our targets are based on 1990 levels. We can quibble about it but Deputy O'Dowd is not the only one to make this point. I wish to correct the record on this aspect. Our emissions in 2005 were 25% above the 1990 levels. During the Kyoto Protocol period, 2008 to 2012 we should be at 113% so we are 12% above where we should be. It is a technical but important point.
Deputy O'Dowd may have missed the fact that the Taoiseach's entire speech on the opening night of the Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis was on the environment.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I picked the Taoiseach's last speech.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am not going to start trading lines with the Deputy.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The speech contained 57 promises.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Taoiseach's entire speech on the first night was on environmental issues and if we are going to trade line for line, I would appreciate a copy of the Deputy's leader's speech.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The speech of the Taoiseach that was broadcast on television did not mention the environment.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Let us keep this discussion straight.
Five major myths have been peddled, the first of which is that we have missed our targets in the first national climate change strategy. This is utter nonsense. The commitment period for the Kyoto agreement runs from 1 January 2008 to 31 December 2012 so it is nonsense to suggest that targets in the future have been missed today. It is equivalent to accusing the Irish equestrian team manager of not winning gold medals in the Olympic Games of 2012. It makes no sense. It is better to base our contributions in this House on issues which are important to us all, not on nonsense.
The Opposition must be either misinformed or is attempting deliberately to distort the facts in suggesting that the targets have been missed. The first national climate change strategy document proposed indicative reductions of 15.4 million tonnes over the period 2008-2012. That is set out on page 5 of the original strategy should anybody chose to compare the figures or to test the truthfulness of the Opposition on this point.
Notwithstanding the fact that our targets were specified for 2008 to 2012 and we are still in 2007, the new strategy shows that we will achieve emissions reductions of over 17 million tonnes per annum, almost 2 million more than the original strategy. It is bunkum to suggest that we have not reached a target which is in the future and to suggest inaccurately that the facts are otherwise.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
On the basis of the Government's current performance, it could be difficult for it to achieve that target.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The 17 million tonne reduction set out in the new strategy shows that we are well on course to meeting our Kyoto Protocol targets. Ireland's emissions without the measures introduced or being put in place would be 79.8 million tonnes whereas the figure we will reach will be 63 million tonnes, slightly below the figure set in our Kyoto requirement. It is more important for public morale than politically. People are making significant changes and if we continue to talk down or misrepresent the real achievements made, we will do a disservice to the debate.
The Opposition claims that nothing has been done to date. It cannot have this both ways, saying that, on the one hand, nothing has been done to date and, on the other, talk as we have been tonightââ
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government has been doing that for the past four years.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Emissions have increased in the past four years.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will not be talked down tonight because this is an important issue. Deputies will have to be a little patient with me. Since 2000 we have implemented measures that are taking almost 9 million tonnes of carbon out of the atmosphere each year, which is a significant change, and we have now set out exactly what we will do to reduce emissions by a further 5 million tonnes. Domestic measures will reduce emissions by almost 14 million tonnes, that is, 80% of the total reduction set out in the new strategy. The details are set out in the National Climate Change Strategy 2007-2012. I commend this document because it was deliberately kept short, without frills and kept to specifics, for the first time because that is the way I like a report to be produced.
I am glad that Deputy Gilmore has joined us because he has castigated the Government for its failure to introduce a carbon tax.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy did it several times.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We have not introduced a carbon tax for a very good reason.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
On a point of information, will the Minister give way?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister has accused me of something that is not true.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy has castigated the Government several times.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister said he would not introduce carbon tax.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Let us consider why a carbon tax would make no sense.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Who is arguing with the Minister?
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We have introduced other types of incentives for the reduction of emissions.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
A carbon tax would have dire consequences, particularly for people who live in the countryside and for small businesses.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister is the only one who has introduced a carbon tax on light bulbs.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We have introduced other types of incentives for the reduction of emissionsââ
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister is hallucinating.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister is deluded. He is away with the fairies.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The pressure of elections affects people.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
ââthe emissions trading scheme, the greener homes and commercial bioheat schemes and the realignment of motor tax are all forms of incentive that will lead to reduced emissions in the sectors where a carbon tax would have applied. The difference in these alternatives is that they do not penalise poor or marginalised households. These schemes do not penalise people who have to use their cars to do their business or pensioners for heating their homes. They do not shove up the costs of running a small business and will not drive jobs out of the country.
For those who are still enthusiastic about the carbon tax those are the precise reasonsââ
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Who is enthusiastic about it?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister is arguing with himself.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Unlike some of the arguments we have heard from the Opposition benches in recent months, the realities are different.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister is arguing for the proposals.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am asking for some forbearance on this point.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister is hypothesising and not for the first time.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The tradition in this debate is to shout down the Government and I will not be shouted down on this.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
For a man who is always right, the Minister is very wrong on this.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The fourth issue on which we are criticised is using the flexible mechanisms and buying carbon credits. The Opposition has derided Ireland for buying its way out of compliance with its obligations.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The flexible mechanisms are an integral part of the Kyoto Protocol.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They do nothing for the environment.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
A total of 80% of the reduction in our greenhouse gas emissions will result from domestic measures and 20% will result from the flexible mechanisms.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The protocol recognises that a given emissions reduction is equally beneficial in terms of combating climate change irrespective of where on the planet it is achieved. This flexibility in the protocol allows developed countries to accept ambitious targets for cutting emissions while, at the same time, providing vital assistance to developing countries and countries in transition. That is what the flexible mechanisms are all about. Their importance has been strongly endorsed by Kofi Annan, Sir Nicholas Stern and Yvo de Boer, the head of the UN climate change convention and the mechanism is being widely used through the European Union, particularly in the non-nuclear member states. The Opposition does not acknowledge that ten EU member states in the burden-sharing arrangement â Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal and Spain â will use the mechanisms and between them they will spend almost â¬3 billion over the five-year Kyoto Protocol period buying credits. Choosing to use the Kyoto Protocol mechanisms, rather than an act of irresponsibility, represents a sensible and balanced approach being followed by environmentally and economically responsible countries throughout Europe. Using the flexible mechanisms to buy credits must be part of the solution, but not the entire solution, and each country needs to find the most cost effective balance, which is exactly what Ireland has done.
A number of Opposition Members, who are absent, say we should go even further than we are required under our international obligations. The Opposition wants us to pass laws imposing even deeper cuts on Irish industry than on industry elsewhere.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Industry is not the problem.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What kind of lunacy is that? Instead of creating an incentive for Ireland to develop into a low carbon economy, the effect would be to drive jobs abroad, destroying Ireland's economy, without any environmental benefit at all. The Opposition would create a desert and call it progress. What the Government has done is perfectly balanced. It has placed an appropriate cap on industrial emissions through the ETS that will deliver reductions of more than 3 million tonnes.
The new climate change strategy shows we will meet our Kyoto Protocol target with 80% domestic effort and 20% use of mechanisms. In doing so, we will position ourselves for the more challenging targets. The strategy shows the existing measures will deliver even further reductions in the period beyond 2020. It is worthwhile examining the measures in place and the impact they will have. In the energy sector, the Government, by ensuring 15% of Ireland's electricity supply comes from renewable sources by 2010, will reduce emissions by almost 1.5 million tonnes. Modernisation and expansion of the natural gas network will reduce emissions by a further 60,000 tonnes per annum. The power generation firms in the ETS will contribute 2.4 million tonnes towards Ireland's target.
I was surprised that Deputy Olivia Mitchell stated nothing had happened in the transport area but then she correctly and properly praised Luas. A total of 26 million people used Luas in its first year.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
How many additional cars are on the road?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Why did the Government delay Luas for so long?
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
These is no congestion in the Minister's world.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The capacity of Luas is 80,000 passengers per day and DART capacity has doubled to 90,000 per day. These improvements will clearly reduce emissions. Through technological improvements in vehicles, we will remove almost 500,000 tonnes of emissions. Rebalancing motor taxes and fuel economy labelling will contribute a significant reduction. Existing investment in public transport and new investment under Transport 21 will remove approximately 800,000 tonnes. Use of biofuels as an alternative to petrol and diesel will reduce emissions by 770,000 tonnes.
In the residential area, the combined effect of three previous enhancements of the energy performance requirements of the building regulations will contribute a saving of almost 500,000 tonnes. The highly successful greener homes scheme will also make further reductions. With regard to industry, a target of 3 million tonnes has been set under the ETS. Improved building regulations also apply to the non-residential sector and they will reduce emissions by almost 50,000 tonnes.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Sustainable Energy Ireland programmes in the commercial and industrial fields will make a significant contribution of 500,000 tonnes during the period in question. I put all these facts before the House because they have been conveniently overlooked.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They are hopes, not facts.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They are aspirations, which are not rooted in reality.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They are the inconvenient truth. In agriculture, CAP reform is contributing to a significant reduction in tonnage, as is afforestation. Deputy Durkan referred to landfill. Landfill gas capture is operating so efficiently that it will reduce emissions by 500,000 tonnes over the period in question. These are the facts and figures and while Members can quibble with them, to say nothing is done is clearly untrue. It is clear the Government has made and is continuing to make huge efforts to reduce Ireland's emissions, which will continue into the future. The Government will report annually on the implementation of this strategy and will continually revise our emissions projections.
Deputy O'Dowd made a number of proposals. He first referred to public sector fleets. Changes are under way because it is a good proposal, which is incorporated in the climate change strategy. He stated an annual report should be published, with which I agree. It is also provided for in the strategy, which also contains a proposition to create a high level commission, which would respond to the Taoiseach. I am not sure about Deputy Durkan's suggestion regarding mirrors at night time and how they might work but I would be fascinated if he would forward further details. The process I have outlined will be transparent and it will be clear to everybody how effective are our policies. The EU has agreed to a minimum reduction in emissions of 20% by 2020 and the strategy deals with this. I commend the amendment and the strategy to the House.
8:00 pm
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am delighted to have the opportunity once again to brief the House on the extensive measures being undertaken by the Government to achieve a more sustainable, cleaner and greener economy. This is the third time in the past 12 months we have debated these issues during Private Member's time with Fine Gael tabling two motions in this regard. As my colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, pointed out, we are delivering significant changes and a range of policies that will enable Ireland to meet its climate change commitments and provide access across the entire economy to cheaper and cleaner energy.
I remind Deputies of our achievements in Government, and of our long-term commitments, which are being realised through immediate and tangible programmes and policies. In the past month, we have published two major policy documents, which underpin these commitments, establish medium and long-term targets and build on the programmes introduced. The White Paper, Delivering a Sustainable Energy Future for Ireland, and the bioenergy action plan are delivering benefits across all sectors of the economy. These policy papers deliver more than 200 clear and measurable actions and recognise that harnessing all forms of our indigenous and renewable energy resources is central to energy policy.
The specific Government targets outlined in the White Paper are one third of electricity consumption to come from renewable energy sources by 2020; a minimum target of 5% market penetration of renewables in the heat market by 2010 increasing to 12% by 2020; a 5.75% biofuels market penetration by 2010, increasing to 10% by 2020; and 30% savings in energy by 2020 across the electricity, heat and transport sectors.
In the area of renewable electricity the 15% target for 2010 exceeds our EU target of 13.2% and has been made possible through a co-ordinated long-term policy for the development of renewable electricity. As the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, said, the target was imposed by the European Union when I came into this job two and a half years ago. The Opposition told us repeatedly that we had no hope of ever achieving it but it will be exceeded. Furthermore, we will achieve 15% by 2010. Between 2005 and 2010 we will have more than doubled the contribution from renewable energies to electricity production from 6% to 15%.
Since my appointment to the energy portfolio I have seen rapid progress in this sector. More than 1000 MW of renewable capacity are now connected to the national grid. Last year I replaced the previous competitive bidding support programme with a fixed price tariff support mechanism. This programme, REFIT, has been acknowledged and welcomed by the sector. In the past year we have accepted a further 55 wind farms ready to proceed under REFIT, adding a further 600 MW of capacity to the system. That level of growth is fully consistent with delivering the 15% target by 2010 and 33% by 2020.
Wind will provide the majority of additional renewable electricity capacity in the medium term. More than 60 wind farms are now operational with a combined installed capacity of more than 700 MW. We are also encouraging other technologies. For example, we have set a target of 500 MW of installed ocean energy capacity by 2020, which is backed up by a comprehensive ocean energy strategy. We have also established higher tariffs for biomass electricity and targets of 30% co-firing with biomass by 2015 in the three peat stations.
The focus on biomass in our electricity, heat and transport fuel policies will support the emerging market for energy from crops, agriculture and forestry residues and biodegradable waste. The Government's bioenergy action plan establishes a range of policies across the three energy sectors. The action plan was drawn up by Ministers from seven Departments and represents a whole of Government approach to developing the full potential of our indigenous biomass resources.
Biomass is particularly relevant in the heat and transport sectors, where new policies and programmes introduced by this Government are already impacting very positively. In renewable transport fuels, we have introduced two bio-fuels mineral oil tax relief schemes. Projects under these schemes are already delivering indigenously produced biofuels to the Irish market, blends of up to 5% in petrol and diesel which are being sold at regular petrol and diesel pumps across Ireland and higher blends sold to specific customers at various locations.
The scheme will allow Ireland to achieve market penetration of 2% by 2008. Building on these programmes, in February I announced that the Government would introduce a biofuels obligation later this year. Under the obligation, fuel suppliers will be obliged to ensure biofuels represent a certain percentage of their fuel sales annually. This will allow Ireland to achieve the targets of 5.75% by 2010 and 10% by 2020, as established in the bioenergy action plan and the White Paper.
I note the Opposition is calling for a programme to convert all public service vehicles to bio-fuels. The bioenergy action plan has already signalled this commitment from Government. Specifically, we have committed to promoting the use of biofuels in blends of up to 5% in local authority and CIE fleets, in line with the current fuel quality directive and standard vehicle warranties. The plan gives a further commitment that all new local authority and CIE vehicles purchased will be capable of taking biofuel blends in the range of 30% and higher.
We have also committed to a range of measures designed to increase market penetration of renewable energy in the heat sector. Once again, we have clearly flagged the Government's intention to commence a programme to convert public buildings to renewable energy. The OPW's new building programme is being developed so that bioenergy becomes the standard. Furthermore, in the next year, the OPW will convert 20 of the State's large existing buildings to bioenergy and will give more favourable consideration to leased buildings which use renewable energy. The action plan also commits to an initial target of 10% in energy savings in the OPW's largest buildings, through a new web-based energy monitoring programme, which will be expanded to cover 230 buildings.
These public sector initiatives are one component of a larger renewable heat development programme which spans all sectors of the economy. We have committed to targets of 5% renewable heating by 2010 and 12% by 2020. This will be realised through programmes such as ReHeat, which I launched recently, CHP and the Greener Homes programme. These programmes cover a wide range of sectors including the domestic, community, voluntary, public sector and commercial and business sectors.
The Greener Homes programme which was introduced over a year ago has been hugely successful with almost 14,000 applications for grant aid submitted by householders across Ireland in one year alone. In budget 2007, recognising the importance and significance of the programme, we increased its funding from â¬27 million to â¬47 million.
Clearly, the Government has listened to the public and responded swiftly to market demand. In the ReHeat programme, a similar process of engagement with the various sectors has resulted in an expansion of this programme. The programme was originally designed to facilitate the installation of bioenergy heating systems in commercial and business utilities and has attracted approximately 100 applications.
Last week I announced that the programme had been expanded to allow community, voluntary and school groups to apply and to broaden the range of eligible technologies to include solar and heat pumps. The ReHeat programme will cost â¬26 million over five years and complements an â¬11 million CHP grants programme which I introduced last year. Underpinning these programmes is a range of actions designed to encourage industry, business, the public sector and private consumers to reduce their energy consumption by applying energy efficiency practices and technologies.
The various programmes being rolled out by Sustainable Energy Ireland are having demonstrable success in this area and, in September, I launched the â¬10 million Power of One campaign, which is impacting on consumers the length and breadth of Ireland. The range, proportion and scope of the various programmes being rolled out provide concrete examples of how Government policy is rapidly developing and evolving to meet emerging consumer needs. They are also designed specifically to address the sustainability challenge including climate change objectives, security of energy supply, national and rural economic development. These schemes have already been put in place and are delivering results ahead of initial expectations.
We established clear and unambiguous targets in the White Paper, the bioenergy action plan and national climate change strategy and have produced a roadmap for the achievement of these targets. There can be no doubt about the Government's commitment and I assure Deputies we will continue with our ambitious agenda for real and tangible change, to the benefit of consumers, the economy and the environment.
A couple of weekends ago, and earlier last year, a proposal was made that all parties in the House come together to agree renewable energy targets for the future. I regret very much that the only party to refuse to participate was Fine Gael.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is the oldest trick in the book â denigrate the Opposition. The Minister has played enough politics. He should get back to reality and do the job he is supposed to.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is ridiculous. It is daft. The Minister surprises me.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy does not like hearing the truth.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Members know it is an old political trick.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Will I be able to speak for the last minute remaining to me?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
ââ what people can see.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It seems that Fine Gael would be much more credible and believable in tabling motions like this if it had actually said "Yes", as did the Labour Party, the Green Party and the Fianna Fáil Party.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It published a document that the Minister copied.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There he goes again, shouting and roaring.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister should at least have the gumption to admit that.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Our target is set for emissions to be 13% above the 1990 level. Between 2008 and 2012, the White Paper on energy, the national climate change strategy and the bio-energy programme will be of help and Ireland will achieve those targets.
Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I call Deputy Gilmore.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister did not do himself justice. He has just conceded that he was not in the equation and that he needed help.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy would not get into the programme.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I wish to share my time with Deputy Wall. I compliment Fine Gael on tabling this motion, which is timely in the immediate aftermath of the publication of the Government's repeated attempt at a national climate change strategy.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Labour Party supports the Fine Gael motion.
I was interested to hear the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, speaking about what he called the reheat programme and on credibility. I will speak briefly about both and will turn to the issue of reheating first. This is government by microwave. As it is too late for the Government to cook up anything newââ
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The same old clichés. There is nothing specific, simply one-liners.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
ââon any area of policy one cares to mention, it digs out the old stuff, stirs it around a little, sticks it in the microwave, takes it out and pretends there is something new in it.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is somewhat like the Labour Party, which is reheated.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Nowhere is this more evident than in respect of the climate change document that was published yesterday. If anything, the document published by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, is even less ambitious than that published by his predecessor, the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, in 2000.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have read both. Admittedly, three yearsââ
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They were hard to read in their entirety.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, is not the only Member who can read.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is good. However, when listening to the Deputy's contributions, I sometimes wonder.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The issue of credibilityââ
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is the comprehension rather than the reading that is in question.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is what concerns the Opposition most about the Government.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
As Deputy Gilmore is entitled to speak, I will say nothing.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources should not go there.
There is an issue in respect of credibility.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Given the Government's record on the old climate change strategy, producing a new one is simply not credible. When the old climate change strategy document was produced in 2000, Ireland was 21% above the Kyoto Protocol limits. Its objective was to reduce that figure by eight percentage points and get it down to 13%. However, the Government only succeeded in going in the other direction and driving it up by 4%. Ireland is now 25% or 26% above the limits, depending on whose figures one believes.
I was interested to hear the speeches of both Ministers, which listed all the measures they will take.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
One would think that they had not been in Government at all because the list of measures they will takeââ
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We also listed the measures the Government has taken.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I could not think of anything the Government has done.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy was not present at the time.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
ââ is a list of measures they have not done in the past ten years.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Clearly this is being driven â I have seen the posters â by the fact that Fianna Fáil has discovered the future tense.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Unlike some I could mention, we are not still stuck in the past. I refer to the command economy.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It has discovered it from focus groups which have obviously persuaded the party leadership that the way for the guys to go â I am sure the advisers are the sort of people who use "guys" frequently in their colloquial language â is to keep telling them what they are going to do.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Fianna Fáil people would never say "guys". They would say "lads".
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They have been advised to refer to the next steps forward and to make sure the people forget about the past ten years. The advice is to delude the people into thinking that Fianna Fáil has not been in Government during that time.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy is in a time warp.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I give full marks to both Ministers for producing a climate change strategy document that is a reheated version of the old document and which sets out to do things that the Government should have done already.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It also refers to measures the Government has taken.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
However, there is a serious side to this issue. The Fianna Fáil Government that was elected in 1977 plunged Ireland into a financial debt from which it took 20 years to escape.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Fine Gael and Labour Party coalition that was in office in 1982 doubled the national debt in four years.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Fianna Fáil Government that was elected in 1997 has now plunged Ireland into a carbon debt.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
This constitutes a new national debt from which it may take another 20 to 30 years to escape.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
When the Labour Party was in power, it doubled the debt.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister, Deputy Roche's party was involved in both.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Instead of facing up to the imperative of the Kyoto treaty and the problems of climate change and doing something real to reduce carbon emissions, it has chosen to ignore the continuing rise in carbon emissions in Ireland and to buy its way out.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Here we go again. The Deputy should be truthful.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I understand the mix of measure that are required. I refer to the ETS scheme, the purchase of carbon credits and so on. However, I do not accept the reliance on purchasing carbon on which the Government insists and which it believes it can do on the cheap.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The majority of the EU 15 will do likewise.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
However, it will not be able to do so and will plunge Ireland into continuing debt.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What will the Deputy do in respect of the 20% figure?
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Can the Deputy tell me what the Labour Party proposes to do in respect of the 20% figure?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I did not interrupt the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Ministers opposite should listen to the point.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What will the Labour Party do in respect of the 20% figure? Fine Gael is honest and has stated that it proposes to buy carbon. What is the Deputy's response?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Of course, we will buy carbon. It must be purchased as part of the package.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy has changed his tune.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have not. The problem is that the Government relies almost exclusively on the purchase of carbon. The sum of â¬270 million that the Government states this will cost, while telling the people it is cheap at the price, would do much for the health service. However, the sum of â¬270 million that the Government claims will be sufficient to buy the carbon will be nowhere near enough. If one examines the statisticsââ
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
How much carbon would the Deputy buy?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I would buy as little carbon as possible.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is a bromide. How much would the Deputy buy?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I would try to reduce the level of carbon emissions. Had the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and the former Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, succeeded in reducing carbon emissionsââ
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
How much would he buy? Fine Gael supports it.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
ââin the past ten years, we would not now be saddled with the degree of financial burden that will be their legacy when they leave office in a number of weeks' time.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy should not lose the rag.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Their legacy to the taxpayer will be a massive bill for the Government's irresponsibility in dealing with this issue.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
How much would the Deputy buy?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government has failed to reduce emissions, which constitutes the major problem.
The two areas that must be examined with regard to the reduction of carbon emissions are the two areas which have generated the biggest increase in emissions, the energy and transport sectors. There is no point talking about industry because industry is doing its bit. In the transport sector, the Government has failed miserably to deliver public transport.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government delayed it.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy's party did not want it.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It nearly did not come into operation.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy turned up at the photocall to launch it.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Hold on. In the Ministers' rush to concentrateââ
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
ââon the future, they are trying to rewrite history.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy is not too bad at that himself.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We are learning at the feet of the masters.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Do not forget that it was the parties on this side of the House which passed the legislation to provide for the Luas.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
How much money did they provide for it?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We put that legislation through and when the Government parties came into office in 1997, they could not make up their minds whether it should go underground or over ground and they delayed it for years.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
How much money was provided for it?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The reason I turned up uninvited for the photocall was that the Government had a Luas carriage garaged for three years before it was put on the streets of the city because of the delays.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
How much money did the Deputy's party provide for public transport?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Luas is a success and it would have been a success three years earlier if the Government has not delayed its introduction. It also delayed providing buses for Dublin city, while the Minister's party argued with the ideological mullahs in the Progressive Democrats about how many buses there should be in Dublin and whether those buses should be privately or publicly operated. There were no new buses until 2005. Only about 100 new buses were provided since 1997, at a time when the population of the greater Dublin area has increased by 250,000. Is it any wonder there has been such a huge increase in carbon emissions from the transport sector?
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We have had such an increase because we created the wealth and 40,000 people are not leaving the country.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The rainbow Government provided zilch for public transport.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Government is now talking about rebalancing VRT and labelling new cars for fuel economy. It has been talking about rebalancing VRT and fuel economy for ten years but, again, has not done it. The Minister for Finance made a passing reference to it in the last budget but the Government still has not delivered on it.
Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy was asked a question but could not answer it.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I have been seriously interrupted by two unruly Members, who are in training to be on this side of the House in two months.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We look at the Deputy with such admiration.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will hand over to my colleague, Deputy Wall.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy Wall is a decent man. We will not interrupt him.
Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The rivalry between Meath and Kildare was never like that between Dublin and Meath.
Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy Wall mentioned Tallaght once.
Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank Deputy Gilmore for sharing time. I also thank Fine Gael for putting this motion, which the Labour Party supports, before the House. Although the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, says it is the third time this issue has been discussed, there is a need for this third discussion in view of the number of representations Members receive on the matter. In recent weeks, in particular, Members are hearing on the doorsteps what people think about the problems facing them with energy and so forth.
The belated publication of the Government's White Paper on energy is welcome but hugely disappointing in terms of the challenge facing Ireland in developing its renewable resources and addressing the critical issue of climate change. The Labour Party opposes the break up of the ESB or the atomisation of the company and its core grid and generation assets.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy should not provoke me.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is only softening up, not provocation.
Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The proposal to remove the transmission system from the ESB is unnecessary for competition and threatens the long-term national interest and energy security of the people. The introduction of the all-island electricity market later this year will greatly reduce the ESB's capacity to set the marginal price of electricity, and the recent agreement between the ESB and the CER will divest the ESB of significant generation capacity. Further proposals for divestment and site sharing will result in the ESB becoming mainly a network company with some key strategic generation assets. The Minister's proposal to transfer transmission assets to EirGrid opens the appalling vista of the future privatisation of the ESB, with all the attendant dangers of externally controlled generation in a small, isolated market.
In the White Paper, the renewables agenda has been advanced little from the Green Paper. A more ambitious Government might have sought, as in the Labour Party's White Paper submission, to have half of Ireland's electricity supply generated from renewables by 2020 and the bulk of our electricity based on renewables by 2030. Most disappointingly, the White Paper contains no national targets for the overall contribution of renewable energy to the Irish fuel mix for coming decades. It is little wonder that just under 2% of Irish energy is now sourced from renewables after ten years of the Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats Government.
Amazingly, there is also nothing in the White Paper on micro-generation and little new on energy efficiency and conservation. The common refrain of delivering a sustainable energy future for Ireland is the number of energy programmes which will be ready by the summer or autumn of this year, long after the general election. These include the national energy efficiency plan, the sustainable transport action plan and the 2006 fuel poverty action research project.
Since May 2002, the price of gas has increased by over 100% and the price of electricity has soared by 60%. With these massive increases, the recent Government-commissioned Deloitte and Touche report on the future of the ESB unremarkably concluded that almost 20% of householders were fuel and energy poor. The Labour Party is committed to ending fuel poverty in the lifetime of the next Government. By contrast, the Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats document merely restates the current inadequate policies and supports, which currently condemn far too many vulnerable families to living in conditions in which they cannot afford to heat and light their homes properly.
The Ministers and the Deputies on the other side of the House will have seen the effect of the price increases during their canvassing. The pressure the increases have put on senior citizens and families is unthinkable. The Minister, Deputy Roche, said that modernisation and expansion of the natural gas network will reduce emissions by 60,000 tonnes per annum and will provide a cleaner alternative fuel to households and businesses. However, people are not in a position to use natural gas because of the cost. It is having a detrimental effect. In fact, where local authorities have provided natural gas as the energy source for heating and cooking in local authority houses, the people in those houses are asking the local Society of St. Vincent de Paul or the local authority to change the system. I am aware of housing estates where, due to the cost of gas, people are unable to use it and are suffering due to inadequate heating and being unable to use cooking facilities.
The White Paper is high in aspiration but low in detail. The document, for example, lists a series of objectives, such as amending the licensing terms and updating the rules and procedures for the exploration and production of Irish natural resources of oil and gas. However, these are vague hopes rather than concrete proposals. No details are provided about what type of licensing reform will be undertaken or even when and if the Indecon consultants will report on this matter before the general election.
It was hoped that with all the submissions and critiques of the earlier Green Paper the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, and his colleagues would have responded in a more comprehensive manner and revamped the final White Paper accordingly. However, the central policy proposal for the future of the ESB is fundamentally flawed and must be resolutely opposed. As this country and the world now face a critical energy watershed in the context of climate change, the White Paper is seriously deficient with regard to renewables, energy efficiency, fuel poverty and securing the national energy interest for the long term. Anyone with an interest in creating Ireland's long-term energy future will welcome the fact that the Minister and his colleagues have finally produced a bioenergy plan, even as we enter the last two months of the Government's life.
Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Current life.
Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Ireland's great potential to create this renewable energy resource has been known for over a decade and important opportunities to wean the economy away from its total dependence on imported oil and gas supplies have been lost. Unfortunately, the biofuels and renewables strategy the Minister finally launched yesterday still fails to include a comprehensive and innovative bionenergy plan. Many of the targets such as the biofuels target of 5.75% for road transport by 2010 are the minimum targets long recommended by the European Union. The strategy also delays introducing a biofuels obligations scheme until 2009. The contribution of biofuels to the transport industry is derisory. It is amazing that the Minister has not introduced measures to redirect the public service transport fleet towards the use of bioenergy.