Breeda Moynihan-Cronin (Kerry South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 86: To ask the Minister for Defence if there is provision for a person who applied unsuccessfully for admission to the Permanent Defence Forces to reapply; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8887/07]

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The day-to-day administration of recruitment to the Defence Forces is the responsibility of the Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces. One can enter the Permanent Defence Force through the cadetship competition, the apprenticeship competition, the general service enlistment process or the direct entry competitions which are held to fill vacancies in specialist areas. If an unsuccessful applicant reapplies for a position in the Permanent Defence Force, he or she will be considered within the normal eligibility criteria. The number of applications received each year for positions in the Permanent Defence Force usually far exceeds the number of positions available annually. The nature of the recruitment process, which includes a competitive interview, means that many applicants who meet the eligibility criteria are not successful.

I intend to maintain the Government's established policy of providing for ongoing recruitment to the Defence Forces. Continued recruitment into the Permanent Defence Force will maintain its strength at the level set out in the White Paper as being necessary to meet military needs — 10,500 Permanent Defence Force members at all ranks. Information on careers in the Defence Forces can be obtained on their website, www.military.ie.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Minister for his reply. Many people from the north inner city of Dublin, which I represent, contact me after their applications to join the Defence Forces are unsuccessful. While I do not suggest they are discriminated against, their applications seem to result in an inordinate lack of success. It seems to me that the Army should be more anxious to get more staff from this area. The Garda is keen to recruit from the north inner city, if possible. The Army does not seem to have a terribly positive attitude to those whose origin, location or postal address is in Dublin 1, in particular.

The Minister responded to my question about whether people can reapply to join the Defence Forces by saying of course they can reapply. Is there any chance of second applications being successful, however? Can the Minister tell me what percentage of people who reapply are successful? If a further application is made by a person who was not successful in the first instance, it is likely that he or she will not be successful on the second occasion. It is rather unsatisfactory that my constituents are experiencing such circumstances.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I do not have figures pertaining to the number of people who make second applications. I can get that information for the Deputy. As of 2 March last, some 1,154 applications had been made to join the Defence Forces. Just 66 of those applications were found to be unsuitable. If one's application is deemed to be unsuitable, one does not get past first base. One might be deemed unsuitable for any of three reasons. One might not reach the specific height requirement of 5 ft. 2 in., one might not meet the prescribed medical or fitness standards or one might not get the necessary security clearance. A small proportion — between a quarter and a third — of those who are deemed to be suitable under those three categories are then successful following the competitive interview process. There are many applicants for every available position in the Army.

The question of unsuitability arises when candidates do not meet the height requirement, do not pass the physical test or do not get security clearance. If candidates do not meet any one of those criteria, they will not be successful. If one receives correspondence telling one that one has been deemed to be unsuitable, or if one is not selected following the interview process, one can ask for further feedback. If one contacts the barracks to which one applied in the first instance, one will be given the feedback that the authorities are allowed to supply. If one has been rejected in the past on the basis of a lack of suitability, but one now feels one meets the relevant criteria because something has changed for some reason, of course one can reapply — there is no problem about that.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I have no problem with the height requirement and the medical test. I would like to comment on the third ground of unsuitability, however. I understand that the Army will deem one to be unsuitable if it learns that one got into trouble with the law in a minor way when one was in one's teens, even if one's minor infringement would not give rise to any security concerns. Are there any proposals to re-examine what constitutes unsuitability on the basis of security matters? We should ensure that this provision is not all-encompassing in a general way. People who were vulnerable at a particular time and came to the attention of the Garda on foot of a minor infringement should be reassessed in consultation with the local Garda station.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Under certain provisions in the Defence Forces' regulations, certain categories of people are deemed to be unsuitable from a security perspective. I can give the Deputy a copy of the regulations if he wishes. The regulations stipulate that a person who has been convicted of a serious criminal offence by the Special Criminal Court, or by a civil court, are not eligible for enlistment in the Reserve Defence Forces on security grounds. The Deputy asked about young people who had a brush with the law at some time in the past. I have encountered such cases in my own city. Applications made by such people are judged on a case-by-case basis. Security clearance is decided on by the Garda in conjunction with military intelligence. As far as I know — I will have to check — local gardaí are consulted as part of that process, although not directly by the Army. I presume this goes to a certain section of Garda headquarters which consults the local Garda to ascertain the position regarding this individual. The person is then deemed to be either suitable or unsuitable on security grounds. If there is any way to make the system more transparent while at the same time not undermining the policy which underlies such a system, I would be prepared to consider it.

Michael Mulcahy (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Whereas I accept what Deputy Costello says, I wish to put on the record of the House that nobody has ever complained to me in more than 20 years of public life in this city that they believe they had been hard done by with regard to an application to the Defence Forces. I am not saying it does not happen but I reiterate that no complaint has ever been made to me.

I am pleased to hear the Minister's reply. A valid point has been made about transparency.

Michael Mulcahy (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will the Minister agree that if a period of ten or 15 years had elapsed between a minor offence such as a road traffic matter and a person being refused entry to the Defence Forces, that at the very least there should be some transparent system, subject to security requirements, so the person is made aware of his credit rating, so to speak? If a person fails a credit test with the Irish Credit Bureau, he or she can look up the information on the credit impediment.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The same applies for applicants to the Garda Síochána and they must also undergo a security check. The system is exactly equivalent for applicants to the Army except that military intelligence is involved even though I imagine this involvement is peripheral and merely a formality. The Garda record of an applicant is what is taken into account.

The suggestion made by Deputy Costello and Deputy Mulcahy seems to be sensible. I will have a chat with the relevant authorities. A person who has committed a minor offence 15 or 20 years ago should not be debarred on security grounds. As Minister for Defence I would not regard such a person as a security risk and I admit I have had a few complaints in my constituency, mainly from people who want to join the Garda Síochána and one or two who want to join the Army.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I note the Minister has also had complaints.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We will not wrangle about it. Viewed objectively it seems rather harsh that somebody who has had a minor brush with the law several years ago which might not even have resulted in a conviction or else merely the application of the Probation Act, are told out of the blue they are unsuitable to join the Defence Forces even though they have turned their lives around or there is no other blemish on their character. I will engage in some discussions about that matter.

Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 87: To ask the Minister for Defence the numbers the Defence Forces expect to recruit in 2007, across all ranks and services; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8645/07]

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The strength of the Permanent Defence Force on 31 January 2007, the latest date for which detailed figures are available, as advised by the military authorities was 10,426.

The current projected figure for recruitment to the Permanent Defence Force in 2007 is in the region of 560 general service recruits and 40 apprentices. The number of cadets to be recruited is currently under consideration and is expected to be in the region of 45. In addition, direct entry competitions, held to fill a small number of vacancies in specialist appointments, are currently open.

The White Paper on Defence of February 2000 sets out a figure of 10,500 personnel for the Permanent Defence Force, comprising 930 for the Air Corps, 1,144 for the Naval Service and 8,426 for the Army.

It is my intention to maintain the established Government policy of ongoing recruitment to the Defence Forces. Recruitment to the Permanent Defence Force will continue to maintain the strength at the level set out in the White Paper as required to meet military needs.

Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Minister for looking after my questions so well. I often muse that in other circumstances I might have ended up in the Defence Forces if I had been accepted because my Dad was a wartime soldier——

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That would be a security risk.

Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Yes, I could have been. My maternal Grandad was a soldier and my paternal grandfather while he was not in the armed forces was killed at sea by a German bomb.

The purpose of my question is to recognise that the world is now a different and more dangerous place, certainly more so than when we were growing up. Ireland now has a superb reputation throughout the world as a super economy and it has defence responsibilities. Is the Minister satisfied that all Ireland's commitments both at home and overseas can be met within the current strength of the Permanent Defence Force? Is this a good or bad year for recruitment?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am satisfied the Army is at sufficient strength as outlined in the White Paper to satisfy all our overseas commitments. However, Ireland has a standing commitment to deploy up to 10% of its standing Army overseas at any one time, being a total of approximately 850 troops. The current number is 808 which must be as near to the maximum as we have ever reached since we entered into that commitment. Nevertheless, the largest contingent abroad consists of 325 troops in Liberia and most of those troops will be returning home later this year. Our commitment in Lebanon runs to about 165 or 166 troops and is until next July or August at which point the Government will review the position and those troops may well be coming home. The situation in Kosovo is that following the general election and a recent meeting of the GAERC, of the European Union Defence Ministers, it is envisaged that downsizing of the United Nations mission in Kosovo is about to commence and personnel will be returning home.

This is an average year for recruitment. We want to maintain numbers. The standing Army figure on an average monthly basis is approximately 10,500, between all the different branches. There are currently vacancies in the Naval Service and the Air Corps but they are dealt with in more detail in the next question.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Some issues arise from the Minister's reply. Will the Minister indicate whether he has any idea whether the term in Lebanon will be extended or the commitment of troops will be increased, based on the assumption that the return from Liberia would allow an opportunity to supply more troops to Lebanon? Were additional troops or an extension of the period of commitment requested during the Minister's visit to Lebanon?

The Minister referred to the recruitment of 40 apprentices. The apprenticeship school was closed several years ago. My understanding is that this has caused some difficulty. Has the Minister any reason to review the decision to close the apprenticeship school with a view to re-opening it at the Curragh Camp? What are his views on this matter? Will he agree to consider the impact of the closing of the apprenticeship school on the Defence Forces?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will certainly consider the matter. I have had no complaints in that regard from the military. I understand the recruitment of apprentices is taking place as normal and as is needed.

In answer to Deputy Timmins with regard to Lebanon, I did not receive any request when I was there to either extend the period of the Irish troops being there or to expand the force. The United Nations presence in Lebanon will certainly extend beyond next August. Troops will be returning from Liberia and possibly from Kosovo in the near future. However, there are plenty of other trouble spots in the world and plenty of other possible requests. No formal request has been made but there is no shortage of places which will need the presence of Irish troops with their magnificent experience and expertise in peacekeeping.

As Deputies will be aware, we were in Lebanon for a very long time. We decided in the light of requests, particularly for Irish troops to return there, to make a commitment, despite the fact that we were stretched in our foreign deployments. We made that commitment and went in. We did not have the facilities to provide a full unit but we went in by agreement with a Finnish contingent involved in both reconstruction and ordnance and explosives clearance work. As Deputy Timmins will know, while the troops are there, they are at the disposal of the force commander who can allocate other tasks to them.

The Government decided that we would go in for a period of 12 months. That period will expire in August or September, or possibly October. Expanding the mission, remaining or returning home would require a Government decision at the time. I am sure the Government, whatever Government is in office, will make the right decision based on the circumstances prevailing in Lebanon at the time and on the level of interaction with the Lebanese.

From what I saw during my trip to Lebanon, I am sure work on the tasks in which we are involved as the protection detail for the Finnish contingent, namely, reconstruction tasks and ordnance clearance work, will almost be finished by the time we are due to come home in September or October. The Government will have to consider the matter afresh at that point.

Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

When the Minister was in Lebanon, did he meet anyone from Tallaght? More seriously, how many applications for enlistment are before the Permanent Defence Force? Does the Minster have any sense of the upper age limit applying across the services?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I met people from all over the country. I cannot recall specifically whether any of them was from Tallaght. If I have occasion to visit there again, I will make representations on Deputy O'Connor's behalf. There were 1,154 applicants for enlistment to the Permanent Defence Force, of whom 66 have been found to be unsuitable. With regard to the upper age limits, an applicant for a cadetship must be under 28 years; an applicant for general service recruitment — ordinary troops — must be under 25 and an applicant for an apprenticeship must be under 20.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister might arrange a trip to Lebanon for Deputy O'Connor in order that he can check whether there is anyone from Tallaght there. In a departure from protocol, I extend a welcome to our distinguished guests in the Visitors Gallery.

With regard to the Minister's reference to the recruitment of specialist personnel, will he elaborate on the remarks he made in Lebanon that he would seek to recruit engineers, doctors and others to the Reserve Defence Force in the manner that it operates in Finland and other Scandinavian countries? Traditionally, we have had difficulty in attracting skilled professionals into the Permanent Defence Force. Is the Minister considering this approach?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We have direct entry competitions for professionals such as doctors, dentists, engineers and so on. The point I tried to make in Lebanon — perhaps I did not make it articulately enough — was that there was a fundamental difference between the Irish Army and the Finnish army which is largely a conscript army. People are called up as and when it needs them. Some 80% consists of reservists who can be called up as and when they are needed. If the Finnish army is undertaking a specific operation overseas which, let us say, involves reconstruction, as is the case in Lebanon, it can advertise directly for engineers, architects, carpenters or others involved in construction. People who are on record as being members of the reserve can apply for these positions. Therefore, the Finnish army can recruit more or less directly for such positions. The Finnish commander of the joint Irish-Finnish brigade told me that there were approximately 600,000 members of the reserve in Finland, which means they have a wide pool on which to call.

The point I was making in regard to specialists was that we intended, within the lifetime of the White Paper, to 2010, to allow members of the reserve to serve abroad. The way we may do this is by focusing on persons such as doctors, drivers, cooks — those with a particular skill — and letting them volunteer to serve abroad in foreign missions as members of the reserve. The main issue we must resolve is the need to provide security of employment for the people concerned in order that they will be able to serve abroad for a certain period and still have a job when they return.