Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I move:

That Dáil Éireann, concerned at the plight of undocumented Irish people living in difficult circumstances in the United States of America:

—welcomes the high priority being given by the US President and Congress to addressing the issue of immigration reform in a way which takes account of the particular position of the undocumented, and also of the security of US borders;

—recognises in particular that the undocumented Irish are unable to return to Ireland for visits and that this imposes significant hardship on their families in Ireland, including in many cases elderly parents;

—recognises further that these people have made and continue to make a valuable contribution to the economic and social life of the United States;

—notes that there are a number of Bills before the US Congress at present which propose different means of legislating for immigration reform;

—deeply appreciates the support given by many members of Congress to efforts to resolve the difficulties facing the undocumented Irish; and

—expresses its strong support for the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act introduced on 12 May 2005 in the US Senate by Senator Edward Kennedy and Senator John McCain and in the US House of Representatives by Rep. Jim Kolbe and Rep. Jeff Flake.

I thank the House for the opportunity to propose this motion. The situation facing our undocumented community in the United States is of deep concern to the Government and to all Members of the Oireachtas. The focus which our debate gives to this marginalised group of Irish people, and to their families here at home, is timely and welcome.

Immigration reform is now a pressing priority on the domestic political agenda in the United States of America. Today's debate and all-party motion reflects this House's collective support for the comprehensive and bipartisan approach to immigration reform proposed by Senator Ted Kennedy, Senator John McCain and their colleagues in the House of Representatives. Its provisions, if enacted, would enable undocumented people, including the undocumented Irish, to participate fully in the life of their adopted home free from fear and uncertainty.

I would like to express my deep appreciation for the priority which Members of the Oireachtas have attached to this important issue. Today's debate follows from useful meetings, including with Senator McCain, which an Oireachtas delegation had recently on Capitol Hill. These contacts build on a number of other visits to Washington this year by Members of the Oireachtas. In May the Government was represented by my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Killeen, at a meeting of the Irish Apostolate USA in Washington DC. Delegations from Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael also attended that conference and had useful meetings with political contacts. Fr. Alan Hilliard, the director of the Irish Episcopal Commission on Emigrants, who organised the meeting, is with us in the House today. I welcome his presence and appreciate his important work and the leadership of the chairperson of the commission, Bishop Seamus Hegarty.

In June the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs visited New York and Washington DC to examine at first hand the issue of the undocumented Irish in the US. It too had useful meetings which informed it of the situation on the ground. For my part, I have raised the concerns of the Government regarding the undocumented on each of my many visits to the US during my time as Minister for Foreign Affairs.

The strong engagement by colleagues in the House is welcome and, in a significant way, complements the very active representations which the Government and the embassy are making on our behalf on an ongoing basis. Members of the House also maintain close contacts with the US ambassador, James Kenny. I take this opportunity to thank him most sincerely for his helpful and open engagement with us on an issue which is of such concern to the Irish people.

Emigration is a central theme of the Irish experience. Generations of our people were all too familiar with the searing pain of separation, loss and isolation. Communities throughout this island were left stagnant as their youth sought economic opportunities elsewhere. The haemorrhaging of our young was accepted by many as the depressing norm. Fortunately, our recent economic success has reversed this trend. Figures released last month by the CSO estimate that in 2005 as many as 19,000 Irish nationals will return to Ireland, while the numbers emigrating will drop to 16,600. Many of the latter are thought to be young people taking a year off to travel before returning to work or college at home. For the first time in our history, we are creating sufficient job opportunities to employ all our citizens of working age. As a people we should take particular pride in this achievement, but we should never forget the trauma of the past nor the plight of those who remain in difficulty abroad. There is a danger that the sustained prosperity of the past decade could dim the collective memory of how painful were our recent waves of emigration.

The second half of the 20th century witnessed two periods of intense emigration. Some 400,000 people left Ireland in the 1950s and in the 1980s we suffered a further heavy outflow. As the House is aware, many of those forced to leave during the 1980s went to the USA and many of the problems this group encountered are replicated in the case of today's undocumented. Though the numbers affected today are much fewer than in the past, the individual experience of isolation and uncertainty remains the same.

While we take great satisfaction in fresh opportunities at home, we must recognise that our new prosperity brings new responsibilities. Meeting the needs of our community living abroad is one such responsibility. I assure the House that the Government is more committed than ever to representing its interests. This commitment is reflected in the establishment of new structures and the provision of significantly increased financial resources. I guarantee it is a commitment that will deepen and grow in the years ahead.

Through its engagement with Irish people abroad, the Government and social partners saw the need for a more structured and strategic approach to our emigration policy. The task force on policy regarding emigrants, which was established by my predecessor, produced a very helpful report which provides us with a framework to guide our policy in this area. We have made significant progress in advancing policies and supporting services in keeping with its recommendations. The establishment of a dedicated unit within my Department focused entirely on matters relating to our emigrants has enhanced our capacity and effectiveness in this area. It is driving forward progress on all of the important areas identified by the task force. I am determined to ensure that this progress is maintained.

Funding to groups working with our vulnerable emigrants has never been higher. It is now more than eight times greater than in 1997. In 2005 my Department's financial support for emigrant services has reached €8.273 million. This is the highest amount ever allocated and represents an increase of 63% on last year. It reflects the Government's firm determination to increase support for groups in the voluntary sector. This upward trend in financial support will continue.

While the numbers settling in the US are nowhere near as high as they once were, there are still many families and communities in Ireland where the connection with America is as strong as ever. I am also conscious that the undocumented form part of a wider Irish community in the US. Some 164,000 Irish-born people were resident there in 2000. In addition to the large number of Irish who have made their home in the US, many young Irish people spend time there on study or business visas.

As Irish and US commercial ties grow ever stronger, the traffic in both directions continues to be strong. The US is our largest source of inward investment and has been central to the growth and modernisation of Irish industry. I am happy to note this relationship is increasingly two way. Irish-owned companies in the US account for some 65,000 jobs there and there are over 200 offices in the US run by Irish exporters. We are very aware that the strategic interests of many of our companies benefit from the transfer of personnel to subsidiaries in the US.

We are also conscious that the future innovative capacity of Irish companies benefits from academic research exchanges. Our embassy in Washington is actively working with Irish agencies and the US authorities to ensure that we can maximise the opportunities that are available for such exchanges. In other words, the relationship between the US and Ireland is maturing, deepening and is bringing increased economic benefits to our two peoples.

The Government remains deeply committed to supporting efforts aimed at alleviating the plight of the undocumented Irish in the US. Comprehensive immigration reform is fast becoming a leading priority for President Bush and legislators in Congress. This increased engagement is encouraging. Over the years, we have been very fortunate to have the support and assistance of many friends in Congress. In the 1980s when the number of the Irish undocumented was much greater than today we worked closely with these friends, notably Congressmen Morrison andDonnelly. Those efforts brought very substantial benefits and largely addressed the problem at that time. We remain deeply appreciative of their support.

The fact that there is no firm figure for the current number of those undocumented tells us a lot about the nature of the problem. The undocumented stay below the radar, fearful of detection. We have heard of various estimates. A figure of 3,000 undocumented Irish people has been estimated by US authorities but this certainly seems to be a low estimate. Some in the Irish community in the US consider that the numbers could be as high as 50,000. We believe that the true figure is probably closer to 25,000.

Overall, the essential problem of the undocumented is not its size. It is the nature of being undocumented and that experience, rather than the number, that should be our focus. For the undocumented, the stress of separation, the strain and anxiety of living in the shadows and the deep sadness of being unable to return to Ireland to visit ageing parents or to attend family occasions such as weddings or funerals, remains traumatic. These people work hard. They contribute positively to their communities and to their adopted country. They rightly take pride in their achievements. They are anxious to have the opportunity to come out of the shadows and regularise their status. They deserve our support and the support of the Irish people.

Irish immigration centres in the US provide invaluable assistance to the undocumented and to other vulnerable members of our community there. This service is of particular relevance and value at this complex time of change and uncertainty. The importance of their work is recognised and deeply appreciated by the Government. During my visit to New York last month, I announced grants to the immigration centres amounting to some €750,000. This represents an increase in funding of 40% on last year and is more than double the amount that was available just two years ago.

While in New York, I convened a meeting of representatives of all the Irish immigration centres in the United States. It was the first time that such a collective meeting had taken place. I valued the opportunity to hear a first hand account of the strain which the undocumented status can place on young Irish people. Many are poorly equipped to deal with the difficult situation in which they find themselves.

The undocumented are increasingly feeling the impact of a more restrictive security climate. Tighter border security measures, greater likelihood of identity checks and difficulties securing driving licences were all put forward as examples of increased pressure on them. The centres share a concern about a perceived rise in stress related problems and substance misuse. They are responding to this by developing in-house counselling services. This is an area where they plan to increase their capacity and I have asked my officials to see what we can do to help them in this. Of course, the remit of the centres extends beyond the undocumented Irish. They are active in a wide range of areas, including working with older marginalised Irish people.

At our New York meeting, we also had a stimulating exchange of views on the prospects for immigration reform in the US. The representatives of the centres are keenly appreciative of the sensitivities in this debate and of the difficult climate for reform. They warmly welcome the engagement of the Government and Members of the Oireachtas in this matter. The Irish undocumented form a small part of a much larger number in the US, where the total undocumented population is thought to exceed 10 million. Many of these people have left homes in Mexico and further south in the Americas in search of opportunities in the US.

We all appreciate that immigration is a sensitive and a divisive issue in the US, particularly since the tragic events of 11 September 2001. Security considerations are understandably very much to the fore. The challenge facing US legislators is to secure consensus around a comprehensive set of reforms which addresses both the situation facing the undocumented and the need for increased security of borders. I am acutely aware of the complexity of this task and deeply appreciative of the high priority which President Bush attaches to it. When the Taoiseach and I met with him on St. Patrick's Day, President Bush assured us of his commitment to making progress and advancing this issue in Congress. We also welcome the commitment of many members of Congress to find a solution in a pragmatic and compassionate way. In my meetings with Senators Kennedy, McCain and other political leaders on Capitol Hill, I have been struck by the strength of their personal commitment to immigration reform.

The tabling last May of the bipartisan Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act by Senators Kennedy and McCain and Representatives Kolbe, Flake and Gutierrez represents a constructive and comprehensive response to immigration and border security concerns. The Bill, if adopted, would open a route to legality for undocumented people, including the undocumented Irish. They could regularise their status by applying for a temporary residency visa. They would receive work and travel authorisation. They could come out of the shadows and generally enjoy greater peace of mind. Significantly, they could travel to and from Ireland without fear of being refused re-entry. They would also have greater protection in the work place, and be eligible for health insurance.

A further attractive aspect of the Kennedy-McCain proposal is that it includes provision for a path to permanent residency. Holders of temporary visas could, in due course, apply for a green card once qualifying criteria are met. This would be a particularly welcome development.

We know that this comprehensive proposal will have to be examined in detail by Congress. There are other bills also to be examined, including a significant one introduced last July by Senators Kyl and Cornyn. The Kennedy-McCain Bill, as drafted, best meets the needs of our undocumented. The Kyl-Cornyn Bill differs from it in some essential respects, most significantly in not providing a path for permanent residency for the undocumented. These two bills have each been read once on the Senate floor and have been referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee for further consideration. A preliminary committee hearing on both bills took place on 26 July and a further hearing is scheduled for later this month.

It is still too early to say how the debate within Congress may develop in the period ahead. It is clear, however, that the US Administration and Congress regard immigration as a priority area and are keen to advance the debate. Nothing, however, can be assumed or taken for granted beyond the reality that the debate in both Houses of Congress will be lengthy and lively.

I can assure the House that the Government will continue to strongly support all measures which would benefit our community in the US. In addition to our political contacts, our ambassador and diplomats in the US will remain active on this issue and meet regularly with contacts on the Hill. In this way we can ensure that our particular concerns are understood and that our strong support for the approach favoured by Senators Kennedy and McCain is given due consideration.

President Kennedy once noted that "immigrants have enriched and strengthened the fabric of American life". On tabling his bill in May, Senator Kennedy stayed with this theme, saying that the United States is a nation of immigrants and its laws must be true to that proud heritage. The Senator's pride in the US immigrant heritage is mirrored by our pride in the contribution made by generations of Irish emigrants to developments in the US. We strongly support the introduction of proposals that would allow the undocumented Irish currently in the US to continue this tradition in an open and transparent fashion. I commend this motion to the House.

Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I propose to share time with my colleague, Deputy Allen.

Fine Gael supports this motion in so far as it goes. It is an important motion for our emigrants abroad and Fine Gael treat this as a very significant matter. The party leader sees this area as sufficiently important to justify the creation of a portfolio for it on the Front Bench and I am gratified that he has asked me to handle it.

I have spent much time on this issue over the last few months and, along with Dáil colleagues, have visited England and America. I do not want to be political in this matter, but the Government has a poor enough record, based on my observations of the conditions of Irish immigrants in America. I will come back to this in a minute.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should not start that. This is supposed to be a non-party issue.

Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I must ask the Minister to be patient, this is what the debate is about. He will get credit where it is due and vice versa.

At various times over the years the Government has tried to put a figure on the number of undocumented Irish in America. Sometimes we are told it is 5,000 and at other times it is supposed to be 50,000. Nobody really knows. However, based on anecedotal evidence we heard when Deputies McGinley, Ring, Coveney and I visited as a Fine Gael delegation earlier in this year, the figure is closer to 50,000 than to 5,000. While there, I found a widespread fear among the young undocumented Irish concerning the possibility of deportation, thereby causing the break up of families, loss of income and many other related problems.

It is important that the Government and the relevant Minister avail of every channel and opportunity to talk to as many members of the US Senate and Congress as possible to help with the implementation of the Kennedy-McCain immigration proposals as a matter of urgency. Despite the fact that these proposals were first introduced last May, the committee dealing with this subject in the US Congress has only looked at them briefly, for a variety of reasons. Appointments to the Supreme Court and other matters have intervened to keep this vital legislation on the back burner.

My contacts on Capitol Hill indicate that there should be some movement next month or the month after that, as the Minister has said. I take at face value the fact that the original view of both Senators Kennedy and McCain and their staff was that the legislation may be wrapped up by December 2006. I am not sure this timetable will stand. What is the Minister's information in that regard?

During our visit to the United States I found that apart from the war in Iraq no issue attracts the attention of ordinary citizens more than immigration. Every major television network including CNN and Fox News continually carried top stories concerning immigration issues. Regardless of whether there are 20,000 or 50,000 of them, the Government must ensure the plight of undocumented Irish people in the United States is not lost in the raging US debate on immigration with its particular emphasis on 1 million Mexicans who cross into the US every year. While the majority of the many politicians we met on Capitol Hill, in particular those with Irish connections, were most anxious to help our case, nevertheless, many of them believed Ireland did not have a problem and other countries presented a bigger problem. It is important, therefore, to continue to lobby US politicians.

During our visit politicians and ordinary citizens displayed great goodwill towards Irish people living in the United States. We met several businessmen and lawyers in New York who opposed deportation of Irish people under any circumstances. With their language and work skills Irish workers are regarded as the jewel in the crown of US labour markets. The United States, however, has an unusually badly regulated immigration policy which, apart from some minor adjustments, has not been changed for years. We found that some right-wing politicians want to deport illegal immigrants immediately and as Deputies will be aware as well as the Kennedy-McCain Bill a rival Bill has been introduced in Congress. We can rest assured it is not without its supporters.

The undocumented Irish in the United States require the protection of US law before they can come forward to the immigration authorities. No undocumented Irish person will go near the authorities unless and until the new proposals are signed into law. This is a reasonable approach. Of all the nationalities in the United States, the Irish are most likely to meet the criteria of the proposed legislation. Not only are most of them in well paid jobs but many of them are employers whose skills are urgently required in the economy. Some commentators believe a special amnesty similar to the Bruce Morrison visa scheme should be introduced. However, the impact of the attacks on 11 September 2001 on ordinary citizens means no amnesty of any description will be introduced.

I thank the American ambassador and his staff for their help. I also thank the special unit in the Department of Foreign Affairs, which is working extremely well, the Bishop of Derry, Dr. Seamus Hegarty, and Fr. Alan Hillard for their great work on this issue. I hope Deputies will be given much more time to discuss this critical issue in future because I could speak for an hour on its many facets. I sincerely hope the parties will co-operate to engineer such a lengthy debate on behalf of every Irish citizen living in the United States, Britain or elsewhere.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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While I welcome this debate, two hours is insufficient time to discuss the issue of undocumented Irish immigrants in the United States. My slot has suddenly been cut from 15 to seven minutes because of the level of demand to speak on the matter. At a meeting of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs earlier in the year I raised the treatment meted out to some undocumented Irish people when apprehended by the authorities in the United States. I wish to place on record the co-operation the joint committee received from the United States ambassador when he appeared before us to outline the difficulties arising from undocumented Irish in the US and the options available to address them. As a result of advice received, a delegation from the committee visited the United States in June.

I propose to list the groups we met during our visit because of the excellent work they do and the great insight they gave us into the seriousness of the problem. They were: the Emerald Isle Immigration Center; the New York Irish Center in Long Island City; the Aisling Irish Community Center in Yonkers; the Project Irish Outreach of Catholic charities; the Irish Immigration Pastoral Center in Philadelphia; and a large cross-section of politicians and administrators in Washington.

While I welcome the advent of the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Bill, introduced by Senators Ted Kennedy and John McCain, and a similar Act introduced by the House of Representatives, the Kolbe-Flake-Gutierrez Bill, I accept the considerable difficulties the legislation faces. I was told, perhaps by an overly pessimistic individual, that the McCain-Kennedy Bill was "DOA". When I asked what this meant, I was informed it means "dead on arrival". I am more optimistic and hope that, having gone before the Judiciary Committee in July, these Bills will proceed to a successful conclusion. All sides support the motion before us. If introduced, the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act would be a welcome development which would give new hope, security and peace of mind to many Irish people in the United States and their concerned families at home.

As Deputy Connaughton noted, as many as 50,000 undocumented Irish people live in the United States. This group is in a deeply difficult position and includes many people who have set down roots in the US over ten or 20 years, established businesses and had families. They are now waiting for a knock on the door that will result in deportation. I was approached by a family in Cork who had to return to Ireland because of a family crisis and, unable to return, now finds its business in the United States in ruins. The undocumented Irish in America face major difficulty accessing services or even obtaining essential documentation such as driving licences but the main area of concern we encountered on our visit was the problem of travelling home to Ireland in times of family crisis.

In discussing the needs of undocumented Irish people in the United States we should also consider our responsibility to those Irish people who emigrated many decades ago. While I acknowledge the support the Minister is giving to Irish organisations in the United States, we must acknowledge that many of the Irish emigrants who helped keep Ireland afloat during the darkest of dark days now live in poverty-stricken old age in British and American cities. We have a moral duty to these people, many of whom kept their families and entire villages afloat by sending money and postal orders in the dark days of the past. They stood by us when we needed them; it is our turn to stand by them. The Government must not forget the responsibility we owe them and should fully implement the report of the task force on emigrants without further delay.

While none of us disputes the right of the United States to set its own immigration requirements, especially in light of the events of 11 September 2001, increased security in the US has posed major difficulties for many Irish people living there. Between 2000 and 2004, 270 Irish people were deported from the United States. The relationship between Ireland and America has been built on mutual respect earned by the millions of Irish emigrants who helped build that great country.

I attach a short note of realism here, there are major difficulties. As Deputy Connaughton stated, there are opponents to the US Act because security is uppermost in people's minds.

There is also one element with which I would not agree but which I must put on record. There were a number of people who said to us that they had noted Irish attitudes to US foreign policy and asked why should they do anything for us because of our stance on some issues that the US has taken up. That is a view with which I would not agree but at the same time there exists that element of opposition caused by such statements, some of which are inaccurate and some of which are accurate. That problem is evident and it must be tackled. I would ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs to bear that in mind in dealing with his counterparts in the United States.

I hope the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act will bear fruit despite all the difficulties. All of us, on both sides of the House, have a responsibility to continue our efforts to monitor the passage of the Act through the US House of Representatives and the US Senate. I wish the Minister and his Department the best of luck in his endeavours. We, on this side of the House, will continue our efforts through our informal connections with organisations in the United States and with the US Administration.

Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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Mar urlabhraí ar ghnóthaí eachtracha ar son Pháirtí an Lucht Oibre, tááthas orm tacú leis an rún seo agus tá súil agam go mbeidh toradh maith ag baint leis nuair a chuirfear i gcrích é. As spokesperson of the Labour Party, I welcome this all-party motion. I also join with others in commending the initiatives of Senators Kennedy and McCain of the United States in seeking to address the issue of the out of status or undocumented Irish in the United States. As in previous discussions of United States foreign policy and Irish attitudes, it is one of the best uses of the friendly relations between our countries to be able to speak to each other frankly on every aspect of policy.

On this issue of immigration policy, the United States is entitled of course to be concerned about its security, particularly in the wake of the tragic events of 11 September 2001, which we addressed both here in this House and in the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs. At the same time the reason for the urgency that attaches to the legislation which has made its way through the judicial committee in the United States is the fact that immigration difficulties are exacerbated by the new security measures.

The Minister, in his introductory speech on this motion, made some points that are of interest. It is for another day for us to debate the appropriate equivalent response for those who come to Ireland and our attitude towards them. This is a matter which we will take up in strong measure with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform at the earliest opportunity.

In understanding the nature of migration — I studied in the United States at the end of the 1960s and taught in the United States in the 1970s — I am appreciative of the connection that exists between our countries at every level.

The uncertainty which falls on the Irish out of status in the United States is immense. For example, one must be virtually a non-person. It is not only the high skilled who are involved but those who are working in the construction industry, for example. Frankly, while it is a norm of Irish emigration to the United States that one may be assisted by family and a network of friends and relations, one may also be exploited by the same network as a result of one's out of status and undocumented nature. The cases with which I have dealt reveal that, which is also tragic.

It is interesting to note that the great Irish emigration to the United States took place immediately after the Famine. A few hundred people from the west emigrated to the United States before 1847. The pattern of emigration at that stage was circular migration, to Scotland and Britain primarily, but it revealed an important constant in Irish emigration studies, that is, the importance that was attached to contact with family. The dominant kind of emigration pre-Famine was circular seasonal migration, the rewards of which were used to pay rents, etc., which continually rose as the receipts from agricultural production in Scotland were raised.

After the Famine, the great emigration to the United States opened up. The Minister commented on the emigration to the US in the 1950s. I would contest his figure of 400,000 emigrants for the 1950s. Between 1955 and 1960, over 250,000 left Ireland, primarily for England. In one year 58,000 people left. They were mostly of an agricultural background and from rural areas. The males emigrated primarily to the construction industry and helped build Britain. The females entered the services, particularly nursing. Although it is for a debate on another day, theirs was a pattern of greater entry into British society.

The 1980s emigrants to which the Minister referred were primarily from urban areas. Most of the people concerned had second level education and many had third level education, and they were more dispersed in the choice of occupations.

The undocumented Irish in the United States is a 1980s problem that has been growing. Some of those in contact with the immigration centres are people who have been in the United States a long time. I need not go into the detail of the risks, which involve, for example, one's relationship to the welfare system such as it exists in different states, to the health services primarily, and particularly to the attachment, which Irish people have had even in an age of technological development, to contact with home. Circular migration was the predominant form of Irish migration until the modern period. The notion of once and for all saying goodbye occurred for a limited period in Irish emigration history.

Deputy Allen made an interesting point. The Irish remained in contact with their American relatives much more than with their Australian relatives. The emigrants into the cities of the United States sent home money in the American letter. In Liam O'Flaherty's story, The Letter, the father opens the letter, takes out the money and says, before he reads the details of how his son is getting on, there is the price of a horse in that. The Irish, on the other hand, did not keep up communication with their relatives in Australia. I suspect it had something to do with there being nothing in the envelope except an account of how they were getting on in the agricultural setting, in sheep farming, etc., in rural areas.

I say all of this to highlight that emigration is a central feature of the Irish experience. However, it is also about vulnerability. It is about making one's way out of one system and into another and fully participating positively. It is a constant in Irish history. For that reason it is something from which we should learn. We should take to heart President Kennedy's comment, quoted by the Minister, on the richness of the contribution of immigration into a society and it should inform our own decisions on family reunification for those who come here.

We should remember that in our own commission on immigration, set up by the 1948-51 Government, we laid a stress on economic reasons. It was a rather weak model of the push and pull factors arising at the time. It was an inadequate model, ignoring the circular nature of emigration, to which I referred mentioned, which had already started after the Second World War.

I am grateful for the interest that the current American ambassador to Ireland has taken in this matter, his attendance at the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and also his helpful nature in dealing with the proposed legislation. My office has also been in touch frequently with Senator Kennedy's office.

It is interesting that another group of people, the 42 families who fled Montserrat after the eruption of the volcano, would benefit from this legislation. Others, not only the Irish, would benefit. I suppose this is the reason in the other House Mr. Gutierrez, for example, is taking an interest, presumably informed by his connections with the Latin American community in the United States.

I join those who paid tribute to the Irish Episcopal Commission and the emigration centres. While I am a critic of some aspects of current practice in the Department of Foreign Affairs, I welcome the Minister's announcement of increased funding for the immigration centres. I hope we can debate more fully another day the matter of making full funding available for the implementation of the task force on immigration.

It is interesting to bear in mind the alternatives to this important legislation. The message that should go out from this House is that there is unanimous support for the preferred legislation of Senators Kennedy and McCain, that it is something to which we attach urgency and it is our strong belief, while understanding the manner in which circumstances have changed in the United States, that people who are important to us have already suffered by long periods of detention, deportation and by much exacerbated feelings of vulnerability of being unable to retain contact with their relatives and families.

The alternative of securing residency in the United States through the means of the diversity visa lottery programme, for example, is not realistic. Fate does not favour us, with a result of 290 out of 9.5 million applicants. The statistical projection from that would not impact on the need in relation to the current volume of out of status Irish persons. It will be valuable when we are, perhaps now on the final date of the legislation, able to establish more authoritative estimates for the number of people involved. I believe that number was never as low as 5,000. Decades ago it was twice that figure taking the rough estimates prepared not just for those on the east coast, but those on the west coast in California and wherever. The best base line figure is probably the estimate from the immigration centres, adjusted downwards. I appreciate there is a difficulty in obtaining an accurate figure as people are reluctant to come forward because through giving information they place themselves at risk.

When I hear of the comparative efforts being made to deal with the problem of illegal immigration, there is a lesson in it for us all. Perhaps we should debate more fully in this House our general attitude and policy towards migration which is one of the features of the modern world. I studied in this area almost 40 years ago. Over the past decades during which I lectured on this area, matters changed fundamentally. The speed of capital and labour have changed relative to each other. Capital has become more mobile and virtually moves in real time while the movement of labour is full of the social and psychological costs and consequences associated with leaving one system and entering another.

It is, perhaps, appropriate that we should debate the international commission on migration and the issue of migrant's rights. The Kennedy-McCain legislation is in the general atmosphere of according rights to those who make a productive contribution to the economy. We have lessons to learn with regard to the families of people who make incipient moves towards becoming part of the economy. We should draw from our experience. We should not use offensive and insulting language, as some Cabinet Members have done, for example, in saying people's stories at airports were "cock and bull stories" and one wished one could turn them back. I cannot convey how much those of us who have worked for three or four decades on immigration issues were grieved to hear such statements made by a person here. The Irish abroad is a new unit in the Department with a small staff. It is an excellent development and I hope it gets more resources and the extra staff it needs.

I am glad to be able to support this initiative which will be widely welcomed, particularly by parents here who have made contact with Deputies on all sides of the House on the issue. This pressure has been intense over the past few years. To those who may read our words on this matter, may they take into account that this is not an ordinary motion, but one debated in special circumstances. There is a huge increase in the number of people expressing anxiety on the matter, parents, relatives and people who must remain quite circumspect who receive telephone calls to do with information on their families.

I am interested in this area. Even when I was legally in the United States as a postgraduate student and a university teacher, I met people whose worry was that they would have an accident, have to go to hospital or to come out, as it were, of the dark shadows of the out of status and undocumented existence in which they were. For all of those reasons, I have great pleasure in supporting this motion on behalf of the Labour Party.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Tá mé chun mo chuid ama a roinnt leis na Teachtaí Connolly, Cowley agus Gormley.

Thar ceann Shinn Féin ba mhaith liom mo thacaíocht a thabhairt do Bhille Kennedy-McCain ar leasú imirce. This measure, if passed, could have positive and life-changing consequences for undocumented workers living in the United States, thousands or tens of thousands of whom are Irish. Three weeks ago, my colleague, Deputy Crowe, expressed our support for the reform Bill directly to the two American Senators, along with the rest of the all-party delegation, in Capitol Hill, Washington.

The situation of the undocumented Irish living in the United States has been of major concern to Sinn Féin for many years. Our concern centres around the vulnerability of this isolated group of Irish citizens. In particular, we lament the effective exile of this group from Ireland and their families here. This exile results from the real fear that if they were to return here for a visit, holiday, wedding or funeral, they would be unable to re-enter the United States where they have built a life, albeit an uncertain one. It is also likely that this intolerable situation contributes to substance misuse, suicide and depression among undocumented workers. We all know friends or relatives who travelled to the United States in the 1970s, 1980s or 1990s and have heard their harrowing stories of avoiding detection and trying to build a life.

Má rithear Bille Kennedy-McCain, déanfaidh sé mórán chun an cás seo a leigheas. Is ceart agus cuí dá réir go dtacaíonn muid leis an chéim thábhachtach seo atáá glacadh ag an mbeirt Seanadóirí agus an bheirt ó Theach na nIonadaithe.

I would also like to use this rare opportunity of Oireachtas enlightened consensus and goodwill around a positive immigration reform to push for a similar measure here. Members of the Oireachtas should not promote the introduction of an immigration policy in another jurisdiction that they would not be prepared to introduce here.

In the same way we have expressed empathy en masse with the undocumented Irish in the United States, let us do the same with regard to undocumented workers here. Sinn Féin calls on the Government to introduce a system to regularise undocumented migrants here. This system should, in line with recommendations of the Immigrant Council of Ireland, prioritise the human rights of such people and recognise that the vast majority are involuntary migrants desperately seeking work, as so many Irish have done abroad before them.

This type of immigration policy reform is vitally necessary to bring an end to the exploitation of this group by some unscrupulous employers in the State and to meet the legitimate needs and the right of migrants to maintain real contact with their respective families at home. A failure to introduce such reform would amount to nothing short of hypocrisy.

I welcome the opportunity provided by this motion to support the Kennedy-McCain legislation, which has real potential to improve the current insupportable circumstances of many Irish people in the United States of America. I look forward to the day when those who wish to return to Ireland, albeit on a temporary basis, can do so. I look forward to the day when they can access and be covered by health insurance. I look forward to the day when they can sleep easily, without the fear of being hauled off to a prison pending deportation. I look forward to the day when they can pay taxes officially on foot of their labours and benefit fully from such contributions. Many of the people to whom I refer have contributed greatly to the US economy, but are not reaping the benefits of their contributions in terms of pensions etc., which they deserve. I hope the proposed US legislation will be passed by the US House of Representatives and the US Senate. I hope the Members of this House will soon be able to congratulate the US authorities on their enlightened view of this matter.

Guím rath ar an reachtaíocht seo agus orthu siúd atá tar éis é a chur chun cinn — an Seanadóir Edward Kennedy, an Seanadóir John McCain, an tIonadaí James T. Kolbe agus an tIonadaí Jeff Flake. Tá súil agam go mbeimíd thar n-ais anseo sar i bhfad ag chur chun cinn an polasaí céanna i leith iad siúd atá gan seasamh sa Stát seo. Tacaím go hiomlán leis an rún agus tá súil agam gon-éireoidh leis. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire agus leo siúd a chuidigh leis an rún a chuir os ár gcomhair agus an deis a thabhairt dúinn ár dtacaíocht a léiriú dos na Seanadoírí sna Stáit Aontaithe. Tá súil agam go dtuigeann siad go bhfuil na páirtithe uile sa Stát seo taobh thiar dóibh san obair thábhachtach agus cuí atáá dhéanamh acu ar son saoránaigh Éireannacha. Sa deireadh thiar, is iad saoránaigh Éireannacha atá muid ag caint fúthu.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Green Party is very happy to be associated with the motion. Like all parties, the Green Party has very strong ties with the United States. My colleagues, Deputies Cuffe and Boyle, are American citizens, like many other Irish people. Many of the Green Party's researchers, including two researchers in my office, are American citizens. The Green Party employs excellent and hard-working interns from Massachusetts every year. My brother, who has been settled with his family in the United States for many years, has told me all about the undocumented Irish in the US.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs is aware that I have been a harsh critic of the Bush Administration in recent years. I opposed the senseless war in Iraq. My worst fears and those of many people who opposed the war have been confirmed. We should never mistake criticism of American foreign policy and the Bush Administration with anti-Americanism. If all those who criticise George W. Bush are seen as anti-American, I am afraid that many Americans can be classed as anti-American.

Like most people in this country, I have a special affinity with the United States. When I was Lord Mayor of Dublin, I had the great pleasure of going to the United States, at the invitation of the then US ambassador, Ms Jean Kennedy Smith. I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Gallery of the current US ambassador. I was accompanied on my visit to the United States, which was organised to solidify the peace process, by the then Lord Mayor of Belfast, Mr. Hugh Smith of the PUP. It was an amazing experience to visit the Irish centres in many American cities. It is probable that many of the people I met were undocumented. I was pleased to see the ties in action and to enjoy the warmth with which we were received. I have always said that the members of the Kennedy family do not just have an affinity with Ireland — they see themselves as Irish. That is why Senator Edward Kennedy has taken such an interest in this process.

When I visited the Queens district of New York with my brother, I spoke to many Irish people who found themselves in the form of limbo that has been mentioned. I was conscious that it was a difficult and stressful set of circumstances for them. I hope the legislation that is currently before the US Congress will alleviate many of the stresses encountered by such people. I hope they will no longer have to hide and worry about their futures.

It is fair to say that Ireland has depended on immigration in recent years. That was the main theme of the contribution to this debate by Deputy Michael D. Higgins. If one casts one's mind back to the 1980s, one will recall that the worst thing that could be said to students participating in demonstrations was that if they did not watch themselves — if they continued to participate in demonstrations — they might not get a visa to get into the United States. I know only too well that such threats were used by members of the Garda Síochána. It demonstrates the extent to which this country depended on its young people being able to get into the US.

I note the Minister of State, Deputy Conor Lenihan, is in attendance. I recall that his father, the late Brian Lenihan, once said that Ireland was too small to accommodate all its people and that it was a good idea for people to get out of the country. We no longer find ourselves in that situation, luckily. Many people went to the US in the 1980s.

Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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It would be great if some of the Green Party Deputies would leave the country. We would have a great House then.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I am sorry to tell the Minister of State that we do not plan on going anywhere.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State would not make a mistake like that mentioned by Deputy Gormley.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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No. He would never put his foot in his mouth. I assure him that the Green Party Deputies plan on staying here for the next 18 months. Perhaps he will have to emigrate after that.

I welcome the motion. It will receive support from all parties. I ask Deputies to show the same level of tolerance to undocumented immigrants in this country as we expect the authorities in the US to show to the undocumented Irish in that country.

Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I would like to share time with Deputy Curran.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I am delighted to have the opportunity to support this motion. I commend the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, for proposing it. I acknowledge the role of the Ceann Comhairle and various other Deputies representing all parties, who have kept the plight of the undocumented Irish to the forefront by travelling to the United States to make their case. I have travelled to the US to that end on two occasions. Like other Members, I have been delighted by the level of support for the undocumented Irish that has been indicated by members of the US Congress. We are all aware of the hardship faced by people whose loved ones in the United States find it difficult to attend family events such as funerals and weddings. The difficulties to which I refer are brought most into focus on such occasions. The legislation being debated in the US at present is most important for that reason.

I greatly regret the cavalier attitude to the US in certain quarters, particularly since the events of 11 September 2001 and in the context of the Iraq war. The small group of people who display the attitude to which I refer seems to get a disproportionate amount of publicity. I do not think the attitude in question is positive in any way. We should acknowledge the US Administration's huge support for the Northern Ireland peace process over recent decades. Similarly, we need to reflect on the importance of the huge level of foreign direct investment in this country. As the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, pointed out earlier, there is now a two-way process of investment, as many Irish companies are establishing operations and employing substantial numbers of people in the US. That undoubtedly arises from the progress made due to foreign direct investment in this country by US companies.

I was honoured to represent the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, at the annual general meeting of the Irish Episcopal Commission on Emigrants in Washington. I acknowledge the wonderful support work undertaken by Bishop Hegarty and Fr. Alan Hillard and others on the US front, particularly the work done by the Irish emigrant centres. I had the opportunity on that occasion to meet many of their representatives, as did the other Oireachtas Members with us. One would have to be enormously impressed by the quality of their work and the range of demands on their services. We tended to emphasise the plight of the undocumented Irish but many other difficulties beset the Irish community there, to some of which the Minister referred in his speech. The work of the centres is very important.

I am delighted funding for emigrants is now eight times what it was in 1997. I was very impressed by the work of the Irish abroad unit in the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Irish Embassy and consulates in the US. I had reason on occasion to make representations on specific cases. The level of support I received from our people in the US was extraordinary and went far beyond what would reasonably be seen as the call of duty. It is important this is acknowledged in the House.

In a debate such as this we must also acknowledge the role of the friends of Ireland in Congress, and their understanding of the difficulties which beset the undocumented Irish. I acknowledge the past work of Congressmen Morrison and Donnelly with regard to visas but also the ongoing advice and support of others. We are all aware of the difficulties which arise in regard to, for example, driving licences or tighter border security. Hardly a Member of the House has not been contacted by a constituent arising from difficulties in this area. However, the House must also acknowledge that it is a difficult climate for reform in the United States, a point which should not be made light of. Every effort should be made in the House and elsewhere to speak and act in support of the Kennedy-McCain Bill. We also acknowledge the support of President Bush and his generous response to the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs during the last St. Patrick's Day celebrations in regard to the difficulties of the undocumented Irish.

Ultimately, this legislation, like legislation in any Parliament, will be amended and examined in great detail. We could be more proactive in one area, namely, in encouraging those in Congress who have fears in regard to immigration issues to take a more positive view of the Kennedy-McCain Bill. This is one of the great challenges. Many US politicians, particularly post 9/11, have concerns in this area. We need to do all we can to ensure those concerns are addressed.

With regard to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, it is clearly in our economic interest that we continue to support and be positive towards foreign direct investment which, fortunately, now moves in both directions. It is important for our economy that a message is sent. As a number of Deputies opposite stated, it is also important that our policy in this area reflects what we demand of others.

John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on the motion, which came about specifically as a result of a visit of an all-party Oireachtas delegation to the US, led by the Ceann Comhairle. Among the issues raised, the most pressing issue, which arose time and again, was that of the undocumented Irish in the US. In particular, we discussed the issue with Senator John McCain, who had a thorough understanding of the problem, not only from the American perspective but from an Irish perspective and with a knowledge of the issues and problems it causes here. Having discussed it, the last point he made was that this US legislation needs support, including from Ireland.

I thank the Minister for his support and I am grateful for the full co-operation of all parties and the Whips in organising this debate — it is rare one sees such co-operation in this House. The undocumented Irish living in the US is often seen as a rural issue. However, as a Dublin Deputy, I know many families in Clondalkin and Lucan who rarely talk about this subject because they are afraid that if they speak to the wrong person, their son or daughter living abroad will be in some way compromised. This causes real difficulties. Aside from ordinary occasions such as Christmas or weddings, people can no longer travel home for critical events such as illnesses or funerals. It is a real issue that affects everybody. Every Member of the House has many constituents who are affected. However, it is an issue that people will not discuss publicly because they are afraid of compromising their position.

The US is prepared to deal with the issue and feels it must do so. However, it is not just considering this from an Irish perspective. The matter must be dealt with as it is estimated that up to 13 million undocumented people live in the US, a situation the Americans view primarily as a security risk. It is important this motion is debated because other legislation is contemplated, apart from that proposed by Senators Kennedy and McCain, that would be not be as positive from an Irish perspective. Having spoken to Senators and Congressmen of different persuasions, I feel there is a real willingness to deal with this legislation; I believe the Bill will be passed.

The Minister of State, Deputy Killeen, referred to the Bill being amended. However, it is important that we realise there is a significant number of undocumented residents in the US. The US Administration is quite blunt in stating there will not be an amnesty. Instead, there will be a method of progression for those currently in the US illegally in which they will apply for visas while there. Not all of the other Bills proposed would offer that opportunity. This is why it is important we, united in the House, fully support the Kennedy-McCain Bill with this aspect fully intact, namely, that those who are undocumented and currently illegal must be allowed the opportunity to regularise their situation from within the US. If that core issue is not addressed, these people will not come forward and the problem will continue forever. Not all other politicians in the US — Senators and Congressmen — necessarily agree with this point. However, it is critically important we emphasise this because the Irish in the US will not participate in the scheme if they must leave the country first.

I fully support the motion. I compliment my colleagues of all parties and both Houses who travelled on the recent trip to the US. We made good and telling points that were listened to by those we met.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I wish to share time with Deputy Deenihan.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am delighted the motion is before the House. However, I would like to sound a word of caution. Many Irish mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, and aunts and uncles are very worried about this situation. I do not want a false message to go out that this legislation is actually happening.

I welcome the US ambassador. He visited my county of Mayo last week. He has a connection with Mayo and I know he enjoyed his stay there. I am glad to see him. I say to him that given all the previous ambassadors and US Presidents with Irish connections, it amazes me that a situation ever arose whereby Irish people were not allowed to enter the US. Irish people built America — they built the roads and did all the dirty work. When my grandfather died, he was buried with the American flag. His brother died in 1921 and received a State funeral because he helped to set up the State. My grandfather was proud to have the American flag with him. That was his wish, which was honoured by the Embassy, which sent the flag. Many of my aunts and uncles are buried in America, which they loved, as I do. However, it amazes me that the people of a small country like Ireland never had free passage into the US, as we have into Britain. However, we must deal with the existing situation.

There is a problem in America, whether people like it or not. Irish-American politicians are not sure about this legislation and have not yet committed themselves to supporting it. This is a very political issue in America because there are between 14 million and 15 million Mexicans in that country. As the previous speakers said, there will not be an amnesty and the legislation will have to cover all sections of society in America.

I was glad Deputies Connaughton, McGinley, Coveney and I went to America at our own expense where we met people from Fianna Fáil. I am glad that at last the Irish Government considers this to be a very serious problem, that our citizens abroad must be protected and that we cannot simply forget about them when they go to America or any other part of the world. One thing that can be said about the American Government is that when its citizens face a problem, no matter what part of the world they are in, it deals with it. It looks after its own citizens and it is only right that our Government and agencies look after our citizens.

I come from a county that experienced much emigration. There is no doubt but that many of my constituents are in America illegally. I hope this legislation will be passed. I ask the American ambassador and the Irish Government to keep lobbying Irish-American politicians to make sure this legislation is passed. A mother in my county has not seen her son for seven years. She has cancer and she knows she will not be around too long. She is no longer able to go to the United States of America, although she used to go every year to see her son, daughter-in-law and their child. She is no longer able to go because of illness. She knows she might never see her son again. A woman visited my constituency office whose husband died last November but her son could not return home for his father's funeral because he knew if he did, he would not get back into America. She is afraid she will die and that her son will not be able to return for her funeral. This situation must be dealt with.

America has always been good to Ireland, and Ireland has been good to America. There has been much criticism of America in the past but I have not criticised America. America has created much employment here. In the town from which I come, 1,000 people are employed in an American company which has been there for more than 30 years. It has been a good employer and it has been good for the town and the country.

As the previous speaker said, it is important that when this legislation is passed by the US Senate, Irish citizens will not have to come home and that whatever documentation or paperwork is required is dealt with in America. People are afraid that if they are sent home, they will not get back into the United States of America. These people are not in America because they have to be. They are there because they want to be. They love America. It has become their home and it is where they want to bring up their children. They are not there for economic reasons and that is why I hope this Bill is passed quickly, that our people can be dealt with as speedily as possible and that this situation will never arise again. I believe this is the last legislation that will deal with emigration to America, particularly for the Irish.

I hope the Irish Government will deal fairly with the immigration problem we have here. We cannot be hypocritical and have it both ways. We cannot ask the American ambassador and American Government to look after our citizens without trying to deal with the immigration problem we have and not run away from it.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on this motion. I have taken a very active interest in the plight of the undocumented Irish in the US since the mid-1980s. In 1987 I paid a private visit to New York to meet Irish emigration groups there. I paid a further visit in 1989 with the former Minister for Foreign Affairs, Mr. Peter Barry, to New York and Washington where we met people such as Congressman Donnelly and Senator Edward Kennedy. I have paid numerous visits to the USA since then, mostly to do industrial promotion for my constituency and to attend fund-raising events for local projects. However, I have rarely visited the USA without meeting an undocumented Irish person, whether in New York, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, San Jose and other cities.

The undocumented Irish are scattered right across the 48 states of the USA. The US has an undocumented population of between 18 million and 20 million — a population that lives and works mostly underground for fear of detection and subsequent deportation. Until there is some form of immigration reform which legitimises the undocumented population, America will never know who these 18 million to 20 million people are as they will not come forward to be counted. It is difficult to estimate the undocumented Irish population for the same reason. Based on the evidence provided by the Irish services agencies across the US, we can only estimate that there are 50,000 undocumented Irish living there. The figure may be lower but it may be a great deal higher.

Since 11 September 2001, the US has become more security conscious. The introduction of legislation such as the Patriot Act and the Real ID Act to make its borders secure has made life very difficult for the undocumented in that country. For example, the Real ID Act prohibits federal agencies from accepting, for any official purposes, state-issued identification cards or driver licences that do not meet numerous minimum documented requirements, including verification of immigration status.

We all agree the US needs to protect and secure itself against future terrorism threats. However, immigration legislation needs to be differentiated from the security debate as they are two distinct issues.

The US immigration system is broken; this is an indisputable fact. It does not work for employers, employees and families. The Kennedy-McCain proposal is an important step towards creating a more equitable immigration regime in the US. This initiative, in tandem with the current restructuring efforts within the US citizen and immigration services, can provide a US immigration system that keeps the US safe and secure while at the same time treats its immigrants fairly.

Apart from the Kennedy-McCain proposal, there are further proposals such as the Sheila Jackson Lee proposal and the Kyl-Cornyn proposal mentioned by the Minister. However, they do not go as far as the Kennedy-McCain proposal which is far more suitable from an Irish point of view. That is why all sides of the House support that proposal.

A recent nationwide survey in America showed that American voters support a system that combines toughness with fairness, provides a path to citizenship with reasonable requirements, implements an effective guest worker programme and reunites families. Voters want a system that rewards immigrants who come to work hard and pay taxes. That is the clear message from American voters. Our clear message to our friends on Capitol Hill is that we want a fair system to look after the undocumented Irish in America. I am glad the House has spoken with one voice — a rare occasion — in calling for this initiative to be put in place immediately.

John Cregan (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to share my time with Deputies Hoctor and Carty.

Like other speakers I am delighted to welcome this important motion and the all-party agreement it has received. Members on all sides are to be complimented. The Taoiseach, along with the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, started the ball rolling on 17 March when they met President Bush in the White House and flagged this issue as a priority for both our countries to examine. It is fair to say progress has been pretty quick since then.

I was proud to represent my party at the Conference of the Irish Apostolate in the United States earlier this year, as were Members from other parties who worked equally hard. I had the opportunity to visit Capitol Hill quite recently on an all-party delegation led by the Ceann Comhairle. It was a most beneficial trip with successful meetings with Senator McCain whose Bill, co-sponsored by Senator Ted Kennedy, is the subject of this debate. I compliment the Irish diplomatic corps in the US and the Irish ambassador to the US, Mr. Noel Fahey. The Irish apostolate in the US also played a large role, particularly Fr. Hilliard who attended the House earlier this morning and the US ambassador, Mr. Kenny, who has shown a keen interest in the matter and has been helpful and co-operative.

In the Limerick West constituency, no different from any other, I have been lobbied, like my colleagues, by mothers, fathers and siblings of undocumented Irish emigrants in the US. They have lobbied me because of the sheltered lives their sons and daughters must live in the US, with their movements restricted within the US and not being able to leave for weddings, funerals and other family events in Ireland. This is difficult for these individuals. It must be recognised these people have played a large part in building the US. The Minister for Foreign Affairs stated:

These people work hard. They contribute positively to their communities and to their adopted country. They rightly take pride in their achievements. They are anxious to have the opportunity to come out of the shadows and regularise their status. They deserve our support and the support of the Irish people.

I agree with other Members that the way to make progress on this issue is through the McCain-Kennedy Bill. I support the comments of Deputy Ring when he says we must, however, exercise caution. While Senators McCain and Kennedy, Congressman Walsh and others are supportive of this legislation, there are many others in both US Houses who need to be convinced that this is a problem affecting Irish people and the legislation the only solution for them.

If adopted it will open a route for legality for undocumented Irish emigrants. It will regularise their status by allowing them apply for a temporary residency visa. They can then receive work and travel authorisation, coming out the shadows to enjoy greater peace of mind. Significantly, they could travel to and from Ireland without fear of being refused re-entry to the US. They would enjoy greater protection in the workplace and be eligible for health insurance. These proposals would be the ideal solution. However, as we may not get this, we must be cautious. We must work as best we can, continuing our lobbying to ensure these people can be documented and their lives can be changed.

Máire Hoctor (Tipperary North, Fianna Fail)
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I am delighted this opportunity has been afforded to backbenchers to give all-party support to the important McCain-Kennedy Bill. It is of tremendous significance to many families across the island. Illegal Irish emigrants have been working hard in contributing to the US economy but are not in a position to gain legal status without tremendous costs for lawyers and others over long periods.

I compliment the Ceann Comhairle, the Department of Foreign Affairs, the Minister and Minister of State, the US ambassador, Mr. Kenny, and the Irish ambassador to the US, Mr. Noel Fahey, and all others who have worked on this issue.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Deputies must not praise the Ceann Comhairle because if a precedent is established, Deputies may attack the Ceann Comhairle. Deputies must not mention the Ceann Comhairle in speeches.

Máire Hoctor (Tipperary North, Fianna Fail)
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The Acting Chairman will be aware of other instances in the past where the individual concerned has been attacked unfairly. If this is out of protocol, I am happy to withdraw my remarks.

Those involved in this matter must be complimented for the work done. The media often sneer at Members for the value of their trips abroad. This has been one of tremendous merit where we will see results. However, it must be treated with caution. The importance of the work done by the emigration centres in the urban centres of the US must also be acknowledged. Priests, religious people and others involved in these centres, diocesan and Government funded, have worked with the illegal Irish emigrants over many years, providing advice and support when none was available because of their illegal status. The issue of medical care has always been one of anxiety for illegal emigrants in the US. While working on building sites and so forth, the greatest fear is that medical cover would not be granted to them because of their status.

The breakthrough in legislation with the McCain-Kennedy Bill, which hopefully will be partnered successfully with the Oireachtas, will provide what is needed for illegal emigrants to return home to Ireland at their own discretion. All Members gave examples of people sparing their visits to Ireland in the hope that relatives here will live forever but in their devastation, they return for a family funeral, never to have the opportunity to return to America. This has been a dilemma for those who have contributed to the US economy. I am delighted America is standing by us on this issue. We welcome the efforts of Senators Kennedy and McCain who have made the most positive proposals for Ireland. We must see every effort is made to work with them and their proposals accepted.

John Perry (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I wish to share time with Deputy Deasy.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

John Perry (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Significant changes need to be introduced in US immigration laws with regard to Irish citizens in the US under the visa waiver programme, VWP. A large number of people from County Sligo, illegally in the US, cannot return home with no sense of compassion or consideration given to them. The VWP enables Irish citizens to remain in the States for 90 days but not to secure employment locally. The provision for individuals on holidays under the VWP to transfer to another category is extremely limited. The US President, Mr. Bush, has proposed a new form of temporary work permits which would be available to both undocumented Irish emigrants in the US and those seeking to enter the US to take up pre-arranged employment. This is critically important and has been discussed for some time. It is time the level of involvement between Ireland and the US, going back to the American Civil War in which more than 200,000 Irish people gave their lives, is rightly recognised when the undocumented Irish citizens in America are considered.

The US Senators Tom Daschle and Senator Chuck Hagel have announced a bipartisan plan for immigration reform that would enable undocumented foreign nationals in the US to legalise their status if they fulfil certain conditions. It is important this happens. Senator Edward Kennedy has also introduced a draft immigration reform Bill entitled the Safe, Orderly Legal Visas and Enforcement Act, the SOLVE Act, to provide opportunities for undocumented immigrants to regularise their status.

I compliment Deputy Connaughton and other Members for going to Capitol Hill to discus this important issue. All these proposals have been welcomed by the Minister for Foreign Affairs as representing genuine efforts to deal with the situation of the undocumented Irish in the US in a constructive and sympathetic way.

This matter is now critically important in light of the massive amount of documentation required — rightly so, given the war on terrorism — to enter the United States. However, people living there cannot even get a driving licence and are afraid of being arrested on the street and deported.

There are three ways to enter America. The first is through sponsorship by an immediate family member who is a US citizen or lawful permanent resident. The second is through sponsorship by a prospective employer in certain fields, such as for persons of extraordinary ability in the fields of science, business or sporting achievements. The third way is through the diversity lottery programme. Irish citizens can in November of each year apply for a lottery held in the United States. It will again be on offer from November of this year and people can apply for it.

I call on Mr. Bush to firm up the proposals he clearly made when he met the Taoiseach. It is equally important that progress be made on Senator Kennedy's proposed SOLVE Act providing opportunities for undocumented people. The Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Conor Lenihan, is in the Chamber. This motion should be sent directly to President Bush to demonstrate the level of determination on the part of Members from all sides of the House that he should honour his commitment to deal with this matter forthwith. The US President should further this matter on Capitol Hill. The US Senators Tom Daschle, Chuck Hagel and Edward Kennedy have all spoken about this matter and we now need action. Those who are undocumented in America need immediate attention on this issue because sympathy is no longer good enough. Such people have contributed enormously to the benefit and success of America's economy and now need some action.

This is important because of the restricted level of opportunities available to undocumented people in America. In some cases they have families there. What is now needed is a level of commitment. Other speakers have already stated that such people should not be obliged to return to Ireland. There should be a temporary facility whereby people could make a declaration. They could then be granted temporary visas. Something must be done to provide them with an opportunity. While programmes such as the green card and lottery schemes obviously provide a unique opportunity to people, many who have won such lotteries in the past now live in Ireland. We must deal with the citizens living in America illegally. I am delighted that the Minister will act on this motion.

John Deasy (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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As I did not expect to speak on this motion, I appreciate being given the time. While I have not listened in detail to other speakers, as far as I am aware, the McCain-Kennedy Bill is dead and was a non-starter. If Members are pinning any hopes on that legislation, they are mistaken. Efforts should be directed at the US Administration. To the best of my knowledge, the current position is that over the period from June to August, the Administration gave briefings on the immigration issue to a number of Members of the US House of Representatives as well as a number of key Senators. In essence, it was proposed that people who were in America illegally would be obliged to own up to that fact, to pay some kind of fine and to leave America and return to their countries of origin. After a year such people could apply for re-entry but without a guarantee that they would be granted citizenship. This is completely unacceptable.

In general, the lobbying efforts made by the Government have been good, but much more could be done in this respect. I have made this point repeatedly to successive Ministers for Foreign Affairs, from Mr. Dick Spring to the current Minister last week. Adequate resources are not being devoted to this issue. I know this because in the last 18 months, six of my constituents have been jailed for considerable lengths of time. They have been chained up, shotguns have been pointed at them and they have been treated very badly. In these cases, I was obliged to call the consulate office and to raise the issue in the Dáil to put pressure on the Government to do something. Opposition Deputies were obliged to raise the issue.

The Government did not pay much attention until the issue escalated dramatically and blew up in its face. It then realised that the US immigration department was treating our citizens extremely badly. The seriousness with which the Government takes these issues can be gauged by its softly-softly approach. However, we do not put the requisite efforts into lobbying for illegal undocumented Irish people. It is not being done and the Government's track record over the last year proves it.

As for my constituents, I was obliged to approach Congressman Jim Walsh. As recently as last week, he made it clear to me that he would ask the immigration department for a review of all six cases once I supplied the specific details. The Government should have done this. It should ask for such reviews and investigations within the immigration department with regard to its behaviour and the experiences of Irish citizens. However it did not do so.

Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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When such cases are brought to our attention, we act on them. On a point of information, such matters are investigated.

John Deasy (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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People are allowed to wallow in jail, in some cases for two or three months. When it was brought to the Government's attention, someone managed to make some telephone calls. The Government only took this matter seriously as a result of pressure from the media and from Opposition Deputies.

There is a larger issue. We have a major stake in this matter because the estimates of undocumented Irish in America range from 5,000 to 50,000 people. As far as the Administration's bid to deal with this problem through legislation is concerned, it is coming up to crunch time. My concern is that considering what the Government has failed to do in the last 18 months——

Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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That is a slur on our diplomats. It is untrue.

John Deasy (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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It is not a slur.

Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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One cannot investigate that which is not called to one's attention. It is completely untrue.

John Deasy (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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This is not a slur on diplomats. It is a slur on those sitting on the Government benches——

Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is a slur directed at our professional diplomats.

John Deasy (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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——who show a complete disregard for our citizens in the United States. While the Government went through the motions, it did not do its job when it came to people being locked up, having shotguns pointed at them and being shackled by the ankles. In some cases, they spent two to three months in jail. This is crunch time as far as Irish citizens in the United States are concerned. The Government should take this matter more seriously than it has done in the last 18 months. It is a disgrace.

Niall Blaney (Donegal North East, IND-FF)
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I wish to share time with Deputy Keaveney.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Niall Blaney (Donegal North East, IND-FF)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on this issue. Undocumented immigrants in the United States continually face numerous problems, of which Members are well aware. Thankfully, US politicians are also becoming familiar with the issue. It is welcome that several Bills are before the US Congress proposing various means of legislating for immigration reform.

The plight of the undocumented Irish in the United States was brought to my attention this year when I took the liberty of travelling to the US for the St. Patrick's Day celebrations with members of the local authority in County Donegal. I met many people from Donegal and elsewhere in Ireland, many of whom were friends and neighbours. They outlined their concerns to me as illegal workers in America.

The undocumented Irish in the United States, of which there are many, live under very difficult circumstances. They are in a position in which they are constantly watching their backs for fear of being deported back to Ireland, even those who are resident in the country for years. It is well recognised that the Irish, undocumented or not, contribute greatly to the economy in the US and are certainly not reluctant to work and pay their way. The greatest problem facing these people is their inability to travel back and forth to visit their relatives who are quite often elderly parents. They are forced to miss out on many family occasions such as weddings, births, anniversaries and funerals.

This situation is not one that will of itself go away and is consequently of the utmost importance to us as politicians here in Ireland. I am very pleased that the US Government is taking such a keen interest in enforcing new legislation regarding the matter. I support the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act as introduced in the US Senate by Senator Edward Kennedy and Senator John McCain and in the US House of Representatives by Representative Jim Kolbe and Representative Jeff Flake.

This legislation will greatly improve the living conditions of the undocumented Irish in the United States and also give great consideration to family members of those exiled there. If this legislation is brought into effect, undocumented migrants will be able to apply for either a H-5A or H-5B visa, among others. The H-5A visa will be valid for three years and renewable once with no waiting period between renewals, and will allow an adjustment of status at the end of four years through self-petitioning or at any point through the sponsorship of people's employers. The legislation also contains a provision to allow the families of holders of a H-5A visa to accompany them to the US. It is proposed that 400,000 H-5A visas would be allocated initially subject to an annual review based on demand.

The H-5B visa will be valid for three years and renewable once and can be obtained if the migrant can demonstrate that he or she was working without authorisation in the US on 12 May 2005. The migrant will also have to prove that he or she has been paying taxes and has had criminal and security background checks. It will also be necessary to pay application fees and penalties. Those who secure a H-5B visa will be given the opportunity to apply for legal permanent resident status after holding the visa for six years and the payment of a second fine of $1,000.

It is of critical importance that the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act as proposed by Kennedy and McCain is adopted into legislation as we have too many fellow Irish men and women living in fear of being deported from the United States. This legislation will give them the best opportunity to regularise their status and permanently lift the constant threat of deportation, thus creating a situation in which these people can continue to contribute to the US economy and communities in which they live and to which they belong.

I acknowledge the work done thus far by our Government and by the Minister. I hope he makes every effort to continue the work because much remains to be done on this legislation. He should try to ensure that it goes through sooner rather than later. Enough visas must be issued to cover all Irish emigrants, not just a proportion of them.

Cecilia Keaveney (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Blaney for sharing time with me. I welcome the fact the Government has taken this initiative and assume there will be cross-party support for the current attempt to legalise those who have left here and lived illegally in the US. There was a time when America offered many opportunities that were not available in this country. There may not be the same rush to the US as there once was, but it still leaves people in a predicament when they have been working there and paying taxes yet have not obtained legal status. Such people have not been able to come home, which has had obvious repercussions for themselves and for the loved ones they leave at home. Should they die when in the US, it is often difficult to locate them to bring their bodies home for burial, which is a trauma that nobody wants to experience.

I congratulate Senator Kennedy and the many people involved in bringing the issue this far. It has been a major issue in Ireland and we have met many American officials at different stages. Sometimes it looked very positive while at other times things looked very bleak. I hope the emphasis from Ireland will lend some weight in the US to ensure that these proposals become reality.

I read Senator Ted Kennedy's remarks on comprehensive immigration reform in July. It is recognised that the immigration system needs to be fixed. The Senator pointed to the exploitation of workers, the division of families, fake documents, criminal smuggling, community tensions and public frustrations that are all linked with this issue. The American people are demanding amendments to a system that is broken. It is very important that we add our voice to the debate and emphasise that we hope the US will deal with this once and for all. In the past, the issue has been polarised between people looking for enforcement and those like ourselves who were looking for more visas. The Senator was right in demanding increased enforcement and increased legalisation at the same time, while pointing out that they are not two opposing principles but can be two sides of the one coin.

In the more recent past, the issue has been connected to a greater extent with national security. There was a feeling that national security and immigration reform were inconsistent. However, that is not the case. It is very important to know who is coming into a country. If the people there can be legalised, that helps to deal with national security at the same time. There is also the issue of immigrant workers who are pitted against native workers. To eliminate the culture of illegality that undermines wages and conditions for workers, such an issue must be dealt with.

Do we deport everyone or do we legalise everyone? I do not underestimate the process that would need to be undertaken should these reforms be enacted. However, Senator Kennedy made the point that the cost of deporting everybody makes such a scenario unlikely. The Irish have contributed so much to the US. Senator Kennedy stated on 12 May:

Immigrants have always been an indispensable part of our nation. They have contributed immensely to our communities. They have created new jobs and whole new industries, served in our armed forces, paid their taxes and help make America the continuing land of promise it is today.

It is in the American national interest to deal with the illegality situation and I congratulate Senators McCain, Brownback, Lieberman, Graham and Salazar as well as Congressmen Coble, Flake and Gutierrez who have all been involved in this legislation.

Families here have suffered anguish. They have lost people because of the current inability to move fluidly between one place and the other. This legislation is a win-win for all. It should be passed and I commend it to the House.

Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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I wish to share time with Deputy Crowe.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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Along with all other speakers in the debate, I welcome the opportunity to say something about what the House is attempting to achieve. Outside of subtle nuances, the House is speaking collectively in seeking to resolve this problem. It is a fine line to tread and the matter must be treated with a great deal of sensitivity. One parliament cannot tell another parliament how to go about its business. It is about putting forward a recommendation, informing the debate in that other Chamber and accepting whatever decision is made subsequently. It is not too far out of order to say that of the two Bills before the Congress of the United States, the preferable Bill is the one presented by US Senators Kennedy and McCain.

I speak as the only Member of this House who was born in the United States and has the opposite problem of only being able to enter the United States with a US passport, as opposed to people who are Irish citizens who cannot leave the United States unless they have suitable green card and immigration papers in place. As other speakers have said, it must also be recognised that the number of Irish people who find themselves in this situation means there is someone known or related to everyone here because of the circumstances that have evolved. I do not think there is any need to repeat the ongoing history and link between the two countries that demand some type of response.

We can be somewhat confident that there is an attempt both at Congress level and with the US Administration to address the issue, and maybe for reasons other than the undocumented Irish. It is possibly the case that President Bush wants to regularise the situation of many Mexicans in the country because of a particular political benefit he might achieve by so doing. If that is the case and it helps Irish people, so much the better.

The only negative slant I place on this is that in debating this issue and speaking with one voice, as we will do at the end of the day, we must address the anomalies that exist in our own immigration policy. We lack any type of coherent immigration policy. What exists contains inconsistent elements such as the habitual residence clause that applies especially in regard to social welfare. This is something the Government will probably be forced to remove because of European law.

The only other point I would make is that when the legislation is approved in the United States, I hope it does not have a clause that says those who will be entitled to US green cards will have to earn something in the region of $75,000 and more in order to obtain a green card.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Sinn Féin supports this motion. Immigration and the undocumented Irish are the big issues for the Irish in the US and those associated with Ireland. I appeal to those who are friends of Ireland to support the Kennedy and McCain Bill. There is not a village, town or city in Ireland where people are not affected by this issue. The message coming from this debate is that the Irish people, North and South, east and west, support the resolution of the issue of the undocumented Irish. We urge people to support the Kennedy and McCain Bill.

Speakers referred to the other Bills going through the House on Capitol Hill but the reality is they will not resolve the situation for the undocumented Irish. Between 5 million and 6 million people are affected by this issue in the United States. There has been talk of sending these people back home. Logistically that would be a nightmare for the authorities. The Kennedy and McCain Bill is a way of getting around the difficulties that face the undocumented Irish. I appeal to people, especially those friends who have supported Ireland down through the years, to again make a courageous stand for the undocumented Irish in America and the Irish back home.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I thank all Members who have spoken, particularly those who were constructive in their support. I also thank the parties for the support they have given to this motion.

I cannot let the occasion pass without referring to what I regard as an attack on officials, perhaps for political purposes, regarding the way they respond to our citizens abroad. I am astounded at the work rate and assistance that our civil servants, embassy staff and consular staff give around the world at any time of the day or night. We endeavour to act on all cases brought to our attention as best we can. It is not always possible to intervene because of the circumstances of some cases. I regard Deputy Deasy's attack on officials, in particular, as one which may have been motivated by political purposes to get at the Government. No matter what administration is in office the response of the officials remains the same. When the tsunami occurred, staff came into the office on St. Stephen's Day at 12 o'clock in the morning to man the phones, as they did on Sunday last weekend, when the Bali bombing occurred. I do not accept that allegation.

Regarding the suggestion that the Kennedy and McCain Bill is dead on arrival, I have heard those comments as well but I do not want to be negative in this regard and I do not think others should be. I accept what people say, that the Bill may not ultimately be accepted. I heard that Senator McCain was asked what we could do by Members of the Oireachtas on an official trip. It was passed on to me by the American ambassador that a conversation had taken place in which Senator McCain said it would be most beneficial if the Oireachtas could pass an all-party motion in support of the Bill. I immediately set matters in train so that this could be put forward.

I accept the Bill as drafted may not be the Bill that will ultimately be passed but it contains the type of principles and elements that would help our people. I ask Members to understand that the support of all parties in this Chamber for this Bill will have a dramatic effect on the debate currently taking place. I accept what Deputy Boyle said, that we cannot dictate. I was very conscious of that in the way in which we drafted the motion, which thankfully got all-party support. From now on there will be a serious debate at Congress level in regard to all of these elements.

When the Taoiseach and I were in the White House on St. Patrick's Day we raised this issue with President Bush. While people on all sides of the House, in some instances, may criticise President Bush and the American Administration, he portrayed a complete understanding of the issues and a very sympathetic attitude towards the Irish involved, given the relatively small numbers. He indicated that because of the relatively large numbers of all nationalities that it is a big issue with which he wants to deal. I understand that in recent weeks he has been particularly active even though there have been other matters on his agenda in this respect.

There was some criticism, perhaps for political purposes, of the perceived lack of effort by the ambassador and staff in America. Nothing could be further from the truth. They are pulling out all the stops in regard to the lobbying of all Senators on a daily basis. One of the difficulties immigrant centres have is that they are not allowed to lobby. It is important that ordinary individuals who have people in America would lobby their particular Congressman and Senator to get the principles and elements of the Kennedy and McCain Bill put forward. In the many opportunities I have had in recent months to go to America on other business, I have always found the time to meet representatives of the Irish emigrant centres. On a recent visit I called all the centres together to one location for the first time to meet me and my officials. We had a very good discussion, not only on the Bill in question but also on other issues, not least of which was the issue of looking after elderly Irish people in America.

The ambassador will continue his work in this regard and very much appreciates the support of the Oireachtas for this motion. As I stated, it will be a significant element in recognising the elements of the McCain-Kennedy Bill. I would like to think that when the legislation comes into force, it will contain provisions that will not require our people to return home to apply for a visa. I hope it will in some way give Irish emigrants an opportunity to embark on a path leading to permanent residency.

The Fine Gael delegation that was in the United States referred to the issue of an amnesty. Whatever about the McCain-Kennedy Bill, the amnesty was dead from day one. We were told not even to mention it.

Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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We accept all that.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I know that. I know Fine Gael was told this was the case, as we were on many occasions, by our embassy officials in particular.

This is an important day and I regret we do not have more time to discuss this matter. I am open to the possibility of returning to the Chamber as the debate in the United States progresses. Perhaps we could organise this between the Whips. I welcome the all-party support for the Bill. When I contacted all the spokespersons for foreign affairs, who are my counterparts in this matter, each of them was extremely supportive in principle of what we were doing.