Willie Penrose (Westmeath, Labour)
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I note the Minister is not here. Maybe he is conceding straight away that this is a very worthwhile motion and proposal for a carers Bill. I anticipate that the Minister will concede and there will be no division tomorrow. I could almost sit down without moving the motion because he is not here. It is a pity because this is a very important issue for the Labour Party. I anticipated that he would surely be here at 7 o'clock in his new portfolio, but I am somewhat taken aback. When he comes he will concede immediately because this is such a worthwhile motion that there will be no opposition. He wants to get off on the right foot and get everyone back on track, including with the Taoiseach, and I anticipate this is one way we will have a victory tonight.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He is the reluctant Minister. He is like the reluctant bride, and we all know what happened to her.

Willie Penrose (Westmeath, Labour)
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I see him arriving. I wish him well in his new portfolio and congratulate him on his appointment. I look forward to constructive dialogue commencing with this motion tonight.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann:

—noting that it is almost 12 months since the Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs published its major report, The Position of Full-Time Carers;

—regretting the failure of the Government to take action to implement the key recommendations contained in the report;

—conscious of the fact that the CSO has produced figures showing that almost 150,000 people in Ireland provide unpaid help for a family member or friend with a disability; and

—aware that carers are saving the State huge expenditure that would arise should those being cared for have to be provided with institutional care;

calls on the Government to recognise the value of the carers' contribution by:

—the abolition of the means test for the carer's allowance;

—the introduction of a comprehensive system of assessment of the supports and services required by carers;

—a significant shift of resources to home care subvention;

—the introduction of a respite care grant for all carers;

—the development of a national strategy for carers.

I wish to share my time with Deputies Stagg, Moynihan-Cronin and Lynch.

Almost a year has elapsed since the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs launched its report, The Position of Full-Time Carers. Since that time the Government has done nothing of consequence to improve the position for carers who, as I have said repeatedly, are some of the best people in our society. Carers are the unsung heroes of Irish society. It is time we acknowledge their role and begin compensating them for the demanding work they are asked to do.

Figures published by the Central Statistics Office last March show that there are almost 150,000 people in Ireland providing unpaid help for a family member or friend with a disability or health problem. The person being cared for could be a child with a physical or mental disability, a stroke victim or an incapacitated elderly relative. In many cases this unpaid care is being provided 24 hours per day, 365 days per year. In some cases a person may be caring for more than one dependant. Providing the level of care required can take a huge physical and emotional toll on the provider. The demand for care can be constant. Significant physical effort is often required, for example, in lifting or moving the patient. Carers can find themselves confined to the house almost as much as the person for whom they care. There is no guaranteed time off, no holidays, no weekend breaks and, in most cases, no financial compensation. Frequently the persons providing the care are themselves elderly. There cannot be a single Deputy who does not have a list of cases of carers enduring significant personal hardship because of their circumstances. I have been deeply moved by some of the letters I received from carers. I have volumes of them, but I will read two samples. The first states:

Dear Mr. Penrose,

As a carer and member of a support group I read with interest your report and recommendations of the joint committee. I am especially interested in a submission which calls for the abolition of means testing for carers. As it is almost a year since the report was passed I feel the decision should be acted on immediately. Could you please inform me of any future progress of same?

The second letter states:

Dear William Penrose,

My name is — and I live at — with my mother, my husband and my three very young children. I am sure you are a busy man so I will keep this very short if I can. I have applied for carer's allowance and in the end I simply gave up not because I won the Lotto but because I could not keep up with the endless paperwork they requested. They even subjected my frail mother to an exam by a Department doctor as they would not accept or believe her doctor of 20 years that she is in need of full-time care. My brother and sister both work full time so all her care fell to me as I am at home with my kids. The thing is my kids are not the reason I cannot do the full-time computer course offered in a particular place with FÁS. They would give me the money for the child care but I have no one to look after my Mum. I feel like I cannot move on with my life until her needs are met.

My choices are to put her in a nursing home and let the people's Government foot the bill or pay for full-time care which I cannot afford or leave her alone and hope nothing will happen and if something does happen she will end up in a particular hospital costing the Government thousands of euros every week. I feel I am stuck and not recognised by the Government. If I got my, as I see it, just reward for all the care I provided I might not feel so stuck. Please do your best to abolish the means testing for all us unseen and unheard carers in Ireland. We do the work for the Government. We just want to be recognised.

These are very small cross-samples of the letters I receive.

According to official figures from the Department of Social and Family Affairs less than 15% of the county's 150,000 carers qualify for the carer's allowance. This is largely because the means test requirements are so severe that only those on the lowest of incomes qualify, a topic I will deal with in more detail later. These carers save the State the high costs that would arise if those being cared for had to seek residential care, but they get little or no recognition from the State. Among the submissions made to me as Chairman of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs, there were over 18 written submissions and many oral submissions by the Carers Association, Carers Alliance and numerous other organisations. The one point on which they focused was the lack of State recognition for the work they do for their relatives.

If there are 150,000 carers, it is safe to assume that there are close to 150,000 receiving care. Taking an average of just €500 per week — Dublin Deputies will laugh at that sum but let us take an average — for institutional care, the cost to the Exchequer of providing residential care for those currently being cared for at home would be close to €4 billion per annum. Very few nursing homes provide care at that price. That does not even consider the capital costs that would be required to provide places for 150,000 people. The Labour Party believes it is time to end the shameful neglect of the country's carers. We want to see a package of measures that will recognise and in some way, not even fully, reward the role played by carers.

When I launched the report, on which there was unanimous agreement within the all-party Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs, I stated on the committee's behalf: "The timescale of implementation is as important to us as is the content of our recommendations and we do not want to see any dust gathering on what we have proposed here and about which there is no substantive disagreement or controversy." Deputy Ring will no doubt relay his views later.

A year on, none of the committee's recommendations has been implemented. The only response from the outgoing Minister, Deputy Coughlan, was to claim that supporting carers was a priority of the Government, and then to do nothing of substance on the recommendations of the joint committee. The outgoing Minister, in a response to inquiries about the actions, if any, being taken on the committee's recommendations, replied to me in June 2004 with a classic, clichéd set of responses which were as disheartening as they were disappointing in tone and content. For example, on the recommendation of the joint committee that the means test for carers be abolished, the Minister responded that its abolition would cost in the region of €180 million per annum and that: "It is questionable whether it would be the best use of such resources in the light of other competing demands and the Department of Social and Family Affairs is aware that there are differing views on this issue."

I would like to spend a little time analysing the former Minister's response on the issue and I hope the new Minister does not deliver this type of clichéd response on the issue of abolishing the means test. First, the Minister claims that it would cost €180 million per annum, a very small figure if all those receiving care were to go into institutional care at a cost of €4 billion per annum. It is small beer but absolutely vital to the people providing care. She did not indicate whether this was a gross or a net figure. Is it net of the substantial savings that would accrue if the machinery of means testing were abolished? Means testing is extremely expensive to carry out, particularly in Ireland where there are different forms of such testing, and it uses up large resources in terms of people and time.

There are 21,000 carers who qualify for payment — some of them do not qualify in full — and they receive a paltry €139. Is the new Minister aware that, from the date they apply, it takes 15 weeks for them to discover if they qualify? That is an absolute scandal. It is not good enough and he would want to shake matters up. If the means test were abolished, that nonsense would come to an end.

Let us assume the bald figure of €180 million to which the former Minister referred is a net figure and let us put it in an appropriate context. Figures provided by the Central Statistics Office in its Census 2002 publication, volume 10, on disability and carers reveal that the total unpaid care given by all carers in the State is almost 2,962,102 hours per week. If these voluntary carers were paid for their unpaid time at a rate of €1.17 per hour — one fifth of the minimum wage — the aggregate cost would be approximately €180 million per annum. These carers do not get paid for this time they spend looking after their relatives or friends. However, if the State were to abolish means testing at an aggregate cost of €180 million, it would still equate to slave wages for carers' unpaid hours.

The former Minister stated "it is questionable whether it would be the best use of such resources in the light of other competing demands". What are these demands and what is more important than looking after people who care for others 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 52 weeks a year? The former Minister claimed that "supporting carers in our society has been a priority of the Government since 1997". Is it a priority of the Government? Is it necessary for one to cite a litany of alternative expenditures by this right wing Government which have been criticised by friend and foe alike as utterly wasteful? One need look no further than earlier today when a proposal to amend certain regulations will result in an increase in the amount of money available to the horse and greyhound industries to a phenomenal sum in excess of €500 million.

The former Minister, Deputy Coughlan, stated the "Department of Social and Family Affairs is aware there are differing views on this issue". Who, apart from people in her Department or the mandarins in the Department of Finance, provided those views? Did they come from the former Minister herself? The all-party committee I have the honour of chairing was unanimous in its support of the abolition of means testing. The new Minister should ask the Carers Association, Care Alliance, the various health boards and the many individuals interested in this issue such as the two women from Kildare and south Kerry who contacted me recently about where the committee stands. He should forget about the different views. There is one unanimous view that people should be given some recognition.

Most of the submissions to the joint committee called for the abolition of means testing. The Mercer Report on the Financing of Long-Term Care commissioned by the Department gives several cogent arguments against means testing and in favour of universality. I draw the attention of the House to the views of the joint committee on means testing. The committee pointed out that such testing is regarded by carers as degrading, stressful and extremely complicated. That was before it took 16 or 17 weeks for applicants to receive word on whether they qualified for payment. If any Member has doubts about this, I urge him or her to examine the basic application procedures they would have to fulfil if they suddenly found themselves in the position of caring for a relative or friend. If Deputies did so, they would support the motion tabled by the Labour Party. They would vote with their feet tomorrow night. The new Minister, Deputy Brennan, has an opportunity to put a stamp on his new Department by accepting the thrust of the motion in conjunction with the heads of the carers Bill we are proud to table.

I have questioned and criticised the outgoing Minister for Social and Family Affairs for her failure to take any substantive action to progress the implementation of the joint committee's report. I regret having had to do so and I wish her well in her new portfolio. I am familiar with the area of agriculture, having spent eight or nine years as my party's spokesperson on it. However, what I find really dispiriting in terms of obtaining a more just deal for full-time carers is that we previously had a Minister who would not do the job and we are now faced with one who does not appear to want the job. Despite my reservations, I call on Deputy Brennan to surprise us all, particularly the Taoiseach who, in the Minister's own words, "shafted" him, by fighting at Cabinet with the same intensity he showed in fighting to retain a ministerial position. I admire the Minister's guts and I find an echo of his behaviour in myself. I would fight to the bitter end for something in which I believed. In the area from which I come, we fight for what we believe in. The Minister must fight for resources for carers and for other seriously disadvantaged groups.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I hope the Deputy wins.

Willie Penrose (Westmeath, Labour)
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I want to see if "Inchydoney Man", that almost mythical, caring Fianna Fáil individual invented by the party's spin doctors, has any basis in reality or if he or she has melted away like the proverbial snow off the ditch. Deputy McCreevy is gone to pastures new. I knew him well. He was also shafted by the Taoiseach and the Government spin doctors persuaded him that he was being promoted. I also want to see if McCreevyism is dead or if it still resides in Tullamore. Most of all, however, I want to see the full-time carers who made strenuous and very moving submissions to the joint committee getting fair treatment. I promised them that and I like to honour a promise. No more will these people's needs be put on the back burner. As far as I and my Labour Party colleagues are concerned, they will now be to the fore.

The joint committee, in addition to making a recommendation on the abolition of means testing, also recommended that caring resources should be shifted towards home care and a home based subvention system should be established; that a consistent and comprehensive system of needs assessment be established — I will provide the Minister with a copy of the Bill my party has drafted to ensure that this happens; and that the one size fits all inflexible approach to disability support, about which Deputy Finian McGrath has often spoken, be abandoned and a flexible approach to administration of the regulations be adopted.

I would have far preferred to be addressing the needs of carers tonight by way of a Private Members' Bill, rather than simply a Private Members' motion. However, under Standing Orders, an Opposition Deputy is prohibited from tabling a Bill that would involve a charge on the Exchequer. It is impossible to address the needs of carers without spending additional money. However, the Labour Party has done its work and has produced a draft carers Bill 2004, which I will forward to the Minister. I would also be glad to make it available to any Member of the House.

I will briefly outline the contents of the draft Bill. Section 1 provides for a right of carers to an assessment of needs. It states that a health board shall carry out such an assessment at the request of a carer providing care for a person to whom the board may provide health or personal social services. The assessment will relate to the carer's ability to provide and to continue to provide care for the person cared for. In addition, a board will be obliged to carry out such an assessment, if so requested, in conjunction with an assessment carried out under any other enactment, such as the Disability Bill when enacted, of the needs of a person for health board services. The Bill obviously will not apply to services provided by a carer under contract or by volunteer members of a voluntary organisation.

Section 2 provides that, after carrying out an assessment of the needs of a carer, the health board must consider the assessment and decide whether the carer has needs in respect of the care which he or she provides or intends to provide; if so, whether those needs could be satisfied wholly or partly by services which the board may provide; and if they could be so satisfied, whether to provide services to the carer.

Section 5 abolishes the means test for payment of carer's allowance and section 6 amends the Health Act 1970 by substituting a new section for section 61 which deals with the home help service. This service is currently provided on a discretionary rather than a mandatory basis. That is in contrast, for example, with the home nursing service. The new section 6 substitutes the word "shall" for "may", thus making provision of the service mandatory. It requires that the service be provided free of charge to those with full eligibility under the Health Acts.

I sincerely urge the incoming Minister for Social and Family Affairs to progress these issues in a serious manner. However, I also urge him to shake up his Department and ensure he is not fed with tired clichés but rather that he will be presented with a little more innovation in the handling of important issues. Ministerial responses hiding behind clichés such as "any plans to change this situation would have to considered in a budgetary context" are no longer acceptable. I publicly challenge the Minister to come up with more innovative responses than those to which I have referred, which could be pre-programmed into any word processor.

I ask Members to offer new hope to full-time carers, to their families and to the disabled people they look after. We can set new standards and new directions in this area if we have the collective will to do so. We can start by voting in favour of the motion.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I thank our spokesperson, Deputy Penrose, for bringing the issue of the neglect of carers to the attention of the House and to that of the Government and the Minister, who appear to have forgotten about such people. This motion presents the Government with an opportunity to demonstrate that the new caring image unveiled by Fianna Fáil at Inchydoney is a reality and not just an image.

On my behalf and on behalf of my colleagues, I thank the thousands of carers in the State who selflessly dedicate their lives to caring for loved ones who otherwise would have no option but to move into full-time institutional care. This commitment by carers is total and requires their dedication seven days per week in every week of the year. Carers are tired listening to Ministers thanking them for their wonderful service while refusing to assist them financially with the burdens they carry.

Accepting the motion would give the Government a chance to change its ways. We are now a rich country with the Government awash with the public's money. It is estimated that to remove the means test for the carer's allowance would cost approximately €180 per year, which represents peanuts in the present day context. Such a minimal commitment would greatly enhance the possibility of old and disabled citizens remaining in dignity in their own homes and would also lighten the load carried by their carers. We can easily afford the cost. As Deputy Penrose mentioned, the House today passed a motion relating to regulations to dedicate €550 million to greyhounds and racehorses. It is a matter of priorities and the "caring" Government gives a higher priority to racehorses and greyhounds than to carers and those for whom they care.

If the elderly and disabled are to be enabled to continue to live in dignity in their homes and communities it is essential that basic and essential services are provided for them at home. An excellent system of advice and grants existed until recently to address these needs. The disabled person's grant provided up to 90% of the cost of providing ground-floor toilets and showers, mechanical stair lifts, wheelchair access, heating, special bedrooms etc. These grants, which were administered by the local authorities, were widely used to very good effect. They allowed the elderly and disabled to continue to use their own homes and gave them a dignity and independence that was their due.

However, these grants have now effectively been cancelled. In County Kildare the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government provided funding of €1.05 million for 2004. However, a further €4 million was required to clear the backlog of grant payments. Kildare County Council had no option but to stop accepting applications and to slow down processing the backlog. Those who are aware of the bureaucratic system will know how this is done. For example, it now takes ten months to get an examination by an occupational therapist in County Kildare, and we have no shortage of occupational therapists. The elderly and disabled, and their carers in County Kildare, as elsewhere, must try to manage without the most basic facilities, toilets and showers. Many will not be able to remain at home and will be forced into institutional care at huge cost to the State and to the old and disabled who will be forced out of their homes with all that means.

I call on the Minister to provide the funding to clear the backlog for disabled person's grants and to allow them to restart with new cases immediately. I also urge the Minister to place these grants for aiding the disabled on a statutory basis so that they cannot be withdrawn at the whim of a county manager or a Minister. The disabled person's grant did a good job, gave value for money, enhanced the life of the elderly and disabled and must be restored forthwith. If this is a caring Government it will be done, but we will see.

I return to the main theme of the motion, which is that means testing for the carer's allowance should be removed. Deputy Penrose has put the case more eloquently than I ever could. If Labour is in Government after the next general election, as is our intention, we will remove the means test from carers. This is how we will show our gratitude to the tens of thousands of carers.

Breeda Moynihan-Cronin (Kerry South, Labour)
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I too welcome the Bill and pay tribute to Deputy Penrose for the huge amount of work he has done in this area. The carers of Ireland are truly the forgotten people of the Celtic tiger. Seán Lemass said that a rising tide lifts all boats. I assure his successors in Fianna Fáil that the Celtic tiger tide has done nothing to improve the lot of carers in Irish society.

The most up-to-date statistics we have on the number and position of carers are contained in the 2002 census. Whereas I do not wish to get bogged down in figures, the census allows us for the first time to move from hearsay to facts and figures about carers and those they look after, and is therefore worth some consideration. The question asked in the census regarding carers was as follows: "Do you provide unpaid personal help for a friend or family member with a long-term illness, health problem or disability, including old-age?" A total of 148,754 people answered "Yes". All those answering "Yes" to this question were classified as carers.

Of all carers, about 66,000, or 44%, live in rural Ireland and about 56% live in urban areas. Carers as a percentage of the entire Irish population amount to 4.8%. Nearly two thirds of carers are married, 61% of carers are women and the majority of carers are between 35 and 55 years of age. However, to get a real picture of the lives of carers, it is important to look at the statistic on the amount of time respondents stated they spend providing unpaid care to a relative or friend.

Of the 148,000 carers, 57% work unpaid for between one and 14 hours per week, 10% work unpaid for between 15 and 28 hours per week, 5% work unpaid for between 29 and 42 hours per week and 27% work unpaid for 43 or more hours per week. A quarter of all carers are working for 43 hours per week or more with no adequate recompense from the State. The amount which carers are saving the State annually by providing this level of care must be astronomical. If the individuals being cared for in the home had to be cared for in nursing homes, hospitals or other facilities, it would require billions of euro to care for them.

Another interesting and alarming statistic emerged from the census. Some 11,744 carers are aged between 15 and 24. Many of these carers are in secondary school or in third level education and may have to spend hours caring for a loved one when they come home from school or college. However, of these 11,000 carers aged between 15 and 24, just 261 of them received the carer's allowance in 2003. Just 2% of these teenagers and young adults got financial aid from the State last year to help them to look after their loved ones. How can Irish society and the Government justify providing no financial support to thousands of teenagers and young adults in these circumstances?

The vast majority of the State's carers get little or nothing in return from the State. Let us consider the paltry amount of expenditure on support for carers annually. According to its own statistics bulletin, the Department of Social and Family Affairs spent €183 million on the carer's allowance in 2003 and almost €7 million on carer's benefit, a total of €190 million on financial support for carers. This represents a drop in the ocean compared with the likely cost of transferring the care for the people being cared for over to the State.

In 2003, 21,316 people were in receipt of carer's allowance. This represents just 14% of all carers identified in the 2002 census. In other words, the so-called caring Government gave financial support to just 14% of carers in 2003. Just over 1,000 people in County Kerry received carer's allowance last year. Dozens of carers who have been in touch with me in recent months are under severe financial pressure in caring for their loved ones. In many cases, their income exceeds by a small amount the income threshold to qualify for the allowance. I appeal to the Minister to bring an end to such cases by abolishing the means test for carer's allowance. Carers do a job — they may not see it as a job, but as a duty of care — that someone else would be doing if they were not in a position to do it. We should acknowledge that carers want their work to be recognised. We should support them in the tremendous, unselfish, loving and dedicated work they do.

When Fianna Fáil Deputies met for a think-in at Inchydoney recently, I am sure they heard Fr. Seán Healy urging that carers be given a greater level of support. I do not doubt that most of them nodded in agreement with Fr. Healy. Did some of them nod in agreement with Deputy McCreevy, however, when he said that Fr. Healy was "spouting rubbish"?

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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That is right.

Breeda Moynihan-Cronin (Kerry South, Labour)
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I would like to know which side Fianna Fáil Deputies are on. Do they agree with Fr. Healy, who said that 14% of carers receive support from the Government, or with Deputy McCreevy? The recommendations of the report of the Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs were supported by all the committee's members, including those on the Government benches. I call on all Fianna Fáil Deputies, especially those who are members of the committee, to support the Chairman of the committee, Deputy Penrose, tomorrow night. Given that they supported the report's recommendations, I cannot see how they can vote against this motion tomorrow night.

Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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I wish to express my appreciation to Deputy Penrose not only for proposing the motion, but also for his work on the Bill he intends to publish when he gets the opportunity, which I hope will be sooner rather than later.

One would imagine that there would be many more people in the Gallery tonight for a debate on a sensitive issue such as the rights of carers, especially when one considers the number of people who work as carers and feel strongly about their job. The small attendance in the Gallery does not mean that this is not a burning issue, but is a reflection of the fact that those who work as carers find it extremely difficult to get any free time to themselves.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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It is as simple as that. Those who encounter such difficulties — those who care for children and young adults with disabilities — are keen that their voices should be heard. They want to be able to come out in force to show the Government of the day, regardless of its composition, that this issue needs to be addressed. Politicians are sometimes not concerned by issues which affect small numbers of people, but they are genuine issues.

I should have started my contribution by congratulating the Minister, Deputy Brennan, on his appointment. I did not have the opportunity to do so last week — I think we were both busy. The Minister has an opportunity to do something about the problems faced by carers. When one is in such a position, one should take one's opportunity. If one examines the history of politics in Ireland, one will find that the grand events are not those most remembered. Those who are remembered are those who introduced particular services and facilitated people to live their lives in a better and more comfortable way. I refer to people like Noel Browne, services like free travel and events such as the divorce referendum. Such people and such policies stick out in people's minds. The Minister can help carers to have a life, to enjoy some free time and to have some type of personal space.

Some striking figures are relevant to this motion. Some €190 million has been spent on carers, but €500 million has been spent on greyhounds and horses. One has to wonder where the Government's priorities lie. It is clear that it does not prioritise investment in people. A survey asked elderly people if they would prefer to spend the final years of their lives in a secure and nursing home where they can be happy that everything is done for them or in their own communities. Approximately 97% of those who responded said they would prefer to stay in their own communities, as long as they were given the necessary supports, such as the assistance of carers. It is not as if an impoverished country is being asked to provide massive amounts of money. As one of the wealthiest countries in Europe, Ireland can afford to make the necessary changes and should do so.

I heard many arguments over many years against giving equal pay to women. It was argued that employers could not afford it and IBEC was said to be outraged by the possibility, but it has become a reality. We can afford it. While women may not be at the exact same level as men, it is no longer argued that employers cannot afford it. Not only can the Government afford to pay carers and to abolish the means test for carer's allowance, it must do it. We cannot afford not to do so.

I wish to discuss the simple case of a carer whom I met. Given that we represent people at all levels, I am sure the Minister and other Deputies have encountered similar cases. I refer to the case of a woman aged 83 who was caring on her own for her 85 year old husband. She did not receive any help from the State as the health board did not want to know. Her daughters did what they could but were working at that time. She cared for her husband until he was institutionalised after he broke his hip when he fell out of bed. He died a year later. We cannot afford to let such things happen again. Carers are a vital part of what makes this country a community. The means test has to be abolished to allow such people to care for others with dignity.

The mother of a friend of mine developed Alzheimer's disease when my friend was between the ages of 15 and 24. My friend did her best to care for her mother until she had to go into full-time care. Her mother died shortly afterwards, when my friend was about 28. My friend always said she felt cheated that she felt under tremendous pressure during the last few years of her mother's life. She told me that the pressure related as much to finances as it did to having to care for her mother. One will hear such stories over and over again.

I am convinced the Labour Party has a different attitude to this issue, as it has to other social issues. Perhaps the Minister will surprise us all by demonstrating a different attitude towards carers. It may be that we are all misjudging him. Maybe the changes he will introduce to make people's lives more liveable will be remembered as part of the history of Irish politics.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

commends the Government on its record in providing supports to carers, in particular for the very significant increase in the number of carers entitled to a carer's allowance, which has increased by 142% since this Government came into office and now stands at 22,300; the fact that expenditure has increased by 310% over this period and welcomes the Government's stated commitment to continue to build on this progress.

I thank the Deputies for their best wishes, which I will need.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We did not say that.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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We are right behind the Minister.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Penrose for his chairmanship of the joint committee and his work in this area. I assure Deputies that I have listened carefully to and taken note of the arguments and points made this evening.

I would like to make some personal remarks before I deal with the motion before the House. I wish to outline my approach and philosophy to delivering a welfare and social services support system that will reach out to include all who need and deserve our assistance. Most of us — I suppose, all in this House — are fortunate enough to have reaped the benefits of living in an Ireland that has witnessed great surges in economic growth in recent years. That economic performance has allowed us to tackle many of the social and economic issues that in the past scarred this country's reputation as a place of care and refuge. As I have regularly stated in many places, we must keep up that sturdy economic growth by encouraging expansion in business and companies and greater competitiveness. As we have seen in recent days, all the predictions in the newspapers are for continued growth. Some Deputies opposite spoke of Ireland as having been a rich country, but the economy will continue to grow very impressively for some years.

That is, of course, good news. However, its true benefits will be seen only if the fruits of that economic growth percolate through to benefit all and not just the few. As I have said many times, our economic progress is not intended to make millionaires of the few while many others face a daily struggle. We can be proud on all sides of this House that we have contributed to making this a booming economy and a vibrant modern country, but we would be prouder if it reached out and lifted up those who, for whatever reason, have been left behind and feel most vulnerable. One Deputy opposite spoke of Seán Lemass's famous assertion about the benefits of a growing economy when he said that a rising tide lifts all boats. In today's Ireland, the economic tide is rising ever higher each year.

However, in the great swell of profits, new opportunities and high expectations, the tide has not lifted all who need our help. That is why, as Minister for Social and Family Affairs, I am determined to work with all sides of the House to tackle the areas where people have been left behind. Resources will be targeted on helping those most in need and most deserving. I think of the thousands of carers throughout the country who selflessly sacrifice so much of their lives to look after loved ones, the older people who were central to the building of the new Ireland and the Celtic tiger, those on whose shoulders we now stand who want to spend the twilight years in security and comfort and the widows and widowers who have had to face many difficulties.

I did not need to go to Inchydoney to know that my political philosophy was clear in my head. I believed in the political party in which I grew up, and I still do. It was a Fianna Fáil Party that believed in economic progress, but not for its own sake. It fought for the reunification of the country, believed in social justice and took a certain pride in our culture and heritage. That is the political party in which I grew up and spent much of my youth and all my adult life. I say those things to show that there is no conflict between my economic views and my social responsibilities.

My late father was a tradesman who ran a small business. He taught me that growing the economy was for everyone's benefit. I always believed that doing so, bringing in companies, making them profitable so that they paid tax and creating full employment were not just for the sake of one or two shareholders or to create a few millionaires. I have fought all my political life to sustain that economic progress so that we could do something with it for people such as my mother, who lives on her own, and God knows how many others like her around the country. That is the purpose of economic growth and that is the philosophy that I grew up with, which probably prevented me from departing to other political parties when the opportunity presented itself.

I wanted to make those personal comments tonight to indicate that I will do my best as Minister for Social and Family Affairs to bring whatever skills I have, good or bad, to bear on trying to make a difference to the lives of the hundreds of thousands of people around the country who depend on our social affairs system. I pledge to the House tonight that I will do my best in that context. This is not some Pauline conversion and is not due to some visit to Inchydoney. I have always believed in a growing economy to produce the surpluses that allow us to meet our social obligations. That has always been my belief, and I have been on record in many places over the years as having said that clearly. I am saying nothing new this evening since I have made these comments, to my own party and publicly, many times.

Now I will deal with the motion. The increase in the number of older people as a proportion of the population presents challenges and opportunities to Irish society. As we age, we aspire to live at home in dignity in our own community. The same aspiration applies to people with disabilities. Our challenge is to provide services for older people and those with disabilities when and where those services are needed and to tailor them to the individual's need.

The Government has been committed to supporting carers and care in the community for many years, and my predecessors have been involved in that. My colleagues in opposition have called on the Government to recognise the value of carers' contribution to society. The Government's recognition of the value of carers' work is evident in several facts. Expenditure on carers' payments increased by 310%, from €46.36 million in 1997 to €190.2 million at the end of last year. The number of carers receiving carer's allowance is up by almost 142% since the Government took office in 1997 and now stands at 22,300. The carer's allowance has been increased by €68.28, or 76%, for those over 66 and by €50.08, or 56%, for those under 66 over the last seven budgets.

The Government's commitment to carers is real, and Members may want to consider the following specific measures and innovations which it has implemented in recent years. In April this year, the weekly income disregard increased to €250 for a single carer and €500 for a couple. That increase ensures that a couple with two children, earning a joint income of up to €29,328, qualify for the maximum rate of carer's allowance, while the same couple, if they have an income of €46,384, can still qualify for the minimum carer's allowance, free schemes and the respite care grant. The annual respite care grant, which was introduced in 1999, increased to €835 from June this year. The amount has increased by a massive 229% over five successive budgets. In addition, those caring for more than one person receive a double respite care grant of €1,670 in recognition of the difficulties they face. That represents an increase of over 550% on what the same carers would have received five years ago.

The carer's benefit and carer's leave schemes were introduced in the 2002 budget. Those arrangements provide financial support and allow carers to avail of job-protected leave of absence for a period of up to 15 months. The net result of those measures is that over 55% of the 40,500 carers estimated by the CSO to be caring for more than six hours per day are in receipt of a specific carer's payment from my Department.

The Government will deliver much more for carers. The care agenda is a very important aspect of social policy, with major financial and other implications, and I am determined, together with my colleague the Minister for Health and Children, to move this agenda on by developing a realistic and achievable framework for the future of long-term care.

International studies suggest that healthy life expectancy, that is, the number of years of life that will be free of chronic illness or disability, is increasing. Furthermore, improvements in technology will enable older people and those with disabilities to live independently for longer. Traditionally, older people and those with disabilities have been cared for informally in the home, mainly by women. Increasing participation of women in the labour force will lead to a decline in the number of women available to provide care. In addition, the decline in family size means that there are fewer offspring to provide care.

A range of studies indicates that older people would prefer to receive care in their own homes and communities. The challenge is to put in place a benefit and financing system which meets people's needs and is sustainable. In order to address some of these issues, during the summer my predecessor in the Department circulated a consultation document to examine the future financing of long-term care in Ireland. This document aims to focus interested parties on the complex issues which must be addressed in the policy development process. They include benefit design, delivery and cost and financing, which are discussed at length in the report. The document has been circulated to over 70 interested parties including Oireachtas committees, Departments, health boards, the social partners and interest groups representing carers, older people and people with disabilities. My officials are currently compiling the feedback from the consultation process and this will be the starting point for the working group promised in Sustaining Progress. I intend to establish this working group before the end of this year. Parallel with this consultation, the ESRI is carrying out a telephone survey on behalf of my Department in order to explore public attitudes and views on issues related to provision and funding of long-term care of the elderly.

With regard to the report of the Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs, The Position of Full-Time Carers, I congratulate the committee on this insight into the needs of carers which it obtained from talking to a range of interested parties. I was interested to read in the committee's report that the greatest need identified by family carers is a break from caring, for home respite and respite for the dependent person. I have already spoken of the respite care grant paid by my Department to all carers in receipt of carer's allowance and carer's benefit. I will consider the further improvements in this grant scheme recommended by the joint committee.

I also noted that one of the recommendations of the joint committee relating to my Department pertains to improvements in the information available to carers. In this regard, funding of €18,000 has been provided to the Carers Association towards the publication and distribution of a new information pack which will provide information about services and supports for carers and their families. My officials are carrying out a review of the carer's allowance and carer's benefit schemes within the Department. It will consider many of the issues and recommendations raised by the Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs in its report, The Position of Full-Time Carers. The review is nearing completion and its recommendations will be considered in the context of the budget.

Government policy is strongly in favour of supporting care in the community and enabling people to remain in their own homes for as long as possible. The development of the supports available to carers will continue to be a priority for this Government, and, building on the foundations now in place, we will continue to develop the types of services which recognise the value of the caring ethos and which provide real support and practical assistance to people who devote their time to improving the quality of life for others. I thank Deputy Penrose and his Labour Party colleagues for giving me the opportunity to make these remarks, both official and personal.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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With how many Members is the Minister sharing time?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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Three. They are Deputies O'Connor, Carty and Parlon.

Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I congratulate the Minister on his appointment. I was proud to be with him in Tallaght last Monday when he saw the fruits of his work regarding the Luas line from Tallaght. It was a proud day for him.

Some of the Opposition have been mischievous today, but we are all deeply heartened by what we have heard from the Minister. He has clearly put it on the record that with regard to his new brief he will do his best to make a difference. That is what we all strive to do. There is a responsibility on all of us to work with the Minister in that regard and I look forward to doing so. I am proud to be a member of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs under the able chairmanship of Deputy Penrose, whose work I warmly compliment. I am also the secretary of the Fianna Fáil policy group on social and family affairs. Sometimes it is very difficult to rise above the taunts that arise. I hope this will not be one of those nights.

Fianna Fáil backbenchers do their job to their best of their ability. For the next 1,000 days before the general election I intend to bring to the attention of the House the issues of concern to me, as I have been doing since I arrived in the Dáil. I said that to Deputy Penrose today, and when I listened to his speech I sensed the emotion in it. I will not be so emotional, but I share many of his views, as does the Minister.

In a world where everyone is competing for resources we must make the case for carers, and I am happy to do so. I recall that when my father was dying, for quite some time, I noticed not only the caring work of my sister but that of many other carers. As public representatives we have a responsibility to take note of carers' concerns. Over the next few weeks, there will be much toing and froing about the budget. Already we are receiving many different submissions. Points will be made about housing, health and education. Deputy Durkan can remind me of many schools in Tallaght, including Kingswood, where repairs are needed. Social welfare however is very important. The previous Minister pointed out on many occasions that she was responsible for making social welfare payments to more than 970,000 people. We must understand the need to continue to make a priority case for such payments.

Regarding the needs of carers, we must support the statements made. Deputy Penrose referred to the work of the joint committee. Deputy Carty, myself and other colleagues have on many occasions brought to the attention of that body the different views and concerns we have. Whatever about the politics of the day, other parties may be in Government in 20 years' time, and meanwhile we must simply get on with the job. The Minister has tonight thrown down the gauntlet to those who would say he is not committed to the portfolio he has been given. I appeal to colleagues to give the Minister the space he needs to read into his brief. His speech tonight demonstrates that he will bring to this job all the skills and talents he has evidenced in a long period of public life. Our responsibility and job on all sides of the House is to do our best, and I will not shirk from it.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Deputy should address the motion.

Charlie O'Connor (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am talking to the motion and I will deal with Deputy McGrath on another occasion, when I have more time. It is not easy to deal with heckling when one has only five minutes. If I ever need the assistance of the Ceann Comhairle in that regard, I will ask for it.

Whatever about the politics of the matter, I hope we understand how important is the role played by carers in our society. We should understand the need to support them at every level, and I hope we will continue to do that.

Frank Fahey (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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When the carer's allowance was introduced in November 1990, it was welcomed across the board. The weekly payment at that time was £45 and was not intended as a payment for the work done by carers but an acknowledgement of their tremendous contribution. That acknowledgement had not been made previously, certainly not in a financial sense. However, as carers tried to apply for the scheme, much criticism was expressed that it was very restrictive. It was difficult to qualify and few benefited in 1990. All Ministers since then have acknowledged the benefit of the scheme and efforts have been made to expand it. It has been made more flexible in successive budgets, the payment has increased and more people now qualify than ever before.

The record on this is clear. In 1991 the scheme was extended to cover persons in receipt of disabled person's maintenance allowance. In June 1995 the payment increased to £62.50, in 1996 to £67.50, in June 1999 to £81.50, in January 2002 to €137.80 and the present rate is €157.80. The scheme has expanded and more people benefit as a result. However, the amount paid bears no resemblance to the contribution carers make. It is not a perfect scheme. It is important the Government continues to expand it and to provide a higher level of payment to carers. It is only natural that people want to be looked after in their own homes and vital that the Government makes every effort to make that possible. People feel better in their own surroundings and the cost to the Exchequer is minimal in comparison to the cost of treating people in hospitals or nursing homes.

I listened to the Labour Party criticism of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Act 2001.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Minister has gone to the dogs.

Frank Fahey (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I am sure the Labour Party will be delighted with the support this week of Deputy Finian McGrath, having done his best to cynically undermine its spokesperson on justice last week.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Ouch.

Frank Fahey (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Leaving that aside, the Government introduced the Horse and Greyhound Racing Bill 2001, for which there was widespread support.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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What has this to do with the debate?

Frank Fahey (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Bill guaranteed funding for an industry that had been neglected. Stable staff in the horseracing industry tolerated conditions which workers in no other industry would have tolerated. As a result of the investment made in recent years and the appointment of a representative of the stable staff to the new racing authority, we have witnessed a marked improvement in the conditions stable staff now enjoy.

Much needs to be done but progress has been made. It is cynical for the Labour Party to target this industry as if we were feeding the horses special nuts and that this is where the money was going. The industry is the biggest employer in Kildare and one of which we can be proud. It is important we acknowledge this and continue the investment. Members treat the horse and greyhound racing industry as an easy target. However, the improvements at horse and greyhound racing tracks were badly needed. Increased numbers of spectators now attend race meetings which have become great social occasions.

I congratulate the Labour Party on tabling the motion. I would like the scheme to be expanded and, as the budget approaches, the Government will give serious consideration to this issue.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister support the motion?

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I wish to share time with Deputies Crawford and Neville, by agreement.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Labour Party for putting the motion before the House. I congratulate, Deputy Penrose, Chairman of the Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs, and its members. The committee spent many long days working over the summer but did not get much media coverage. Furthermore, it was the only committee that did not use consultants. We brought in the real professionals, the people who are affected. I thank every person, every agency and all the carers' organisations who came before the committee. We listened to them. If the then and current Minister had attended the committee, we would not be here tonight.

I congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Power. I am very annoyed with him but I will hold my temper because we are here to discuss carers, not the bloodstock industry.

Seán Power (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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It was discussed earlier.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We on this side of the House are often criticised for seeking further funding for carers. The Minister's problem could be resolved overnight in a very simple way. What I propose would benefit the country and it was the Minister of State, Deputy Power's remarks that suggested the idea to me. Last year there was a big row involving Mr. John Magnier and Mr. Alex Ferguson. Mr. Ferguson is manager of Manchester United while Mr. Magnier is a big businessman here.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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It would be better if the Deputy did not mention names.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I must mention names.

Seán Power (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should stick to the subject of carers.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Manchester United nearly collapsed. It does not pay a penny in taxation to the Exchequer here, but if the Government imposed a tax of 5% on Manchester United it would pay for all the carers in the country and they would not have to beg resources from the State. It would be a very simple way to obtain the money. Manchester United nearly collapsed and that man's business nearly collapsed because there is so much money going out of the bloodstock industry. Manchester United does not pay a penny in taxation to the Irish Exchequer. Who needs the money more, the bloodstock industry, the manager of Manchester United or carers? Carers need it. I thank them tonight for looking after their loved ones. I thank them for their effort, their interest and their work. When practising politicians see people, mostly women but many men also, coming in with signs of stress on their faces, they know those people are looking after a loved one, a mother, a father, a brother or a sister or somebody with a disability. When they walk into my constituency office, I know they are looking after somebody who is sick or old and I thank very much and tell them that they are doing it because the State has failed.

I congratulate the Minister. He is a very reluctant Minister. He reminds me of the bride who did not want to get married. We know what happened to that bride — she got married but she left her husband. I hope the Minister will not leave the Cabinet. Last week the Taoiseach downgraded the Department of Social and Family Affairs. It is a very important Ministry but it was the last appointment to be filled and it is wrong that this should have happened. I wish the Minister well. It is important that he takes this job very seriously because it is vital that we look after the less well-off in society.

Tonight we are discussing the issue of carers. Our committee made 15 recommendations, the most important of which relates to means testing. The cost involved would be approximately €180 million. That is only 1.6% of the overall budget for social welfare. In the budget in December the Minister should deal with that issue and give recognition to the men and women who are looking after their loved ones with no monetary help from the State. They should be rewarded. This is not about money, but recognition. That is what every single group that appeared before the committee said. It is not all about money; it is about recognising that carers are doing a job the State cannot do and making small recompense for doing that job. If the Minister does that in December it will be a start on the 15 recommendations made by the committee. I, Deputy Penrose and our Fianna Fáil colleagues worked hard. We listened to the groups who attended. It was heartbreaking to see elderly people coming in to tell us about their cases. It is time the Government listened and did something for them.

Regarding the recent meeting in Cork, the way the Taoiseach and the Minister downgraded the Department of Social and Family Affairs is serious because it is an indication that nothing has changed and that the Government does not care much about the less well-off. When the December budget is published, we will see of what the new Minister is made. He must be as strong as he was last week and not do what the previous Minister, Deputy Coughlan, did when, for €55 million, she targeted the most vulnerable in society. He must stand up as he did last week and demand the resources for carers and the less well-off, the people who need them most. The Minister was right, as was his father, when they said we are not here to look after shareholders and that the rich will always get richer. The rich can look after themselves; the poor will always be with us and we must support them, help them and look after them. We must never forget about them regardless of how well the economy is doing.

I am sick and tired of hearing about how wonderfully the economy is performing. If the economy is doing so well, why are so many people feeling under pressure? Why do 70,000 children go to school without breakfast every day? It is the result of the 16 savage cutbacks. What are we going to do for the 52,000 families on the housing waiting list? These cutbacks were implemented by the previous Minister. I hope the current Minister learned from that situation.

We are here tonight to discuss carers who must be supported. They have made their recommendations. They have come here year after year and lobbied for the resources they need and now is the time to provide give them. Yesterday we listened to the Minister for Finance and Government spokesmen telling us about the record amount of money in this economy. If there is so much money in the economy, carers should be given the resources they need, including the home-based subvention and the travel allowances. The moment there was a downturn in the economy, the first thing to be cut was home help for the most vulnerable in society, the people who need it most.

In the past few months the Western Health Board made a decision to cut back on transport to hospitals. People would need to be almost dead now before they will be brought to hospital. The Minister should talk to his colleague, the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, and direct the health board to return to the old system of bringing the sick and the weak to hospital. People who cannot afford transport should be brought to hospital as happened under the old arrangement. Any spare resources within health should go towards funding home help and looking after those who are caring for people at home. That is a reasonable request. That is where the money should be targeted.

Last year the Western Health Board had a large sum of money left over and spent it on seven full days of what it described as conferences but what I call junkets in Galway, Leenane and Connemara. It spent money that should have been spent on carers, the sick and the weak. The money could have been used to bring these people to hospitals. If there was anybody in control, this would not have been allowed to happen. I can stand over that account and it can be checked because it is on the record of the health board. That is the type of country we have. We cannot look after people who are sick and weak. People give up good jobs to go home and look after their parents and the payment they get, the carer's benefit, is just above unemployment assistance, which is only barely above the means upon which anybody could live. That is not right and the Minister will be judged in December. I thank those organisations representing carers and say well done and keep fighting. It is our duty to ensure they get the necessary resources. No one can deny the resources are there and we want them to be given to those carers looking after their loved ones at home.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Penrose for raising this issue in the House. As the able Chairman of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs, he has spent much time in bringing all representative groups concerned together to produce a report on the interests of carers. I welcome Deputy Brennan to the post of Minister for Social and Family Affairs. While it is a Ministry belittled by the media and others, it is a major one that looks after those most in need, from children to the elderly. I wish him well in his new post, not just for his own sake, but for those he serves.

Deputy Ring pointed out that the carer's allowance pays a little above the ordinary social welfare allowances. It is mean in that sense. We can all point to how little was paid in 1997 or 1990. However, in 1997 a reasonable family home cost £70,000 while today it costs €300,000. Now both partners in a marriage must earn an income to meet mortgage repayments, the cost of their children's education and all other needs. It cannot be ignored that society has changed and there are fewer people at home to look after elderly parents.

Carers need respite to get away for a few weeks. I know of an 88 year old widow, caring for her two adult handicapped sons, for whom the only available respite is by placing them in a home for psychiatric patients. This must be changed to ensure that those who care for 50 weeks of the year receive some break. Recently, I spoke to an individual, caring for a 31 year old son with cerebral palsy, who has never had a holiday in those 31 years. Today another individual approached me inquiring what help was available for the mother of a two and a half year old handicapped child who requires 24 hour care. Although the mother left her job when the child was born, she is not eligible for a carer's allowance, as her husband's income, while not high, is above the threshold. It has been argued that those who are financially secure do not need the carer's allowance. However, our contention is that the allowance is not an alternative to a secure and comfortable income but merely a small recognition of the contribution made. Carers need recognition of what they do as many must make large mortgage repayments.

The Minister claims the Government is a caring one. What about support for widowers and widows who must care for their late spouses or their own parents? An individual receiving a widower's or widow's pension can still keep his or her contributory pension while holding down a full-time job. However, if he or she must stay at home to care for a loved one, there is no second pension entitlement. The Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs suggested such individuals should receive a half pension as some recognition. In a reply from the former Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Coughlan informed me such a move would cost approximately €10 million. With all due respect, Punchestown Equestrian Centre cost €15 million and many other schemes cost more.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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E-voting.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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This group of people have committed their lives to looking after the elderly and for doing so deserve some recognition. The argument that traditionally no one has ever received a second social welfare payment is always used. Yet, in the majority of cases the widow's or widower's pension is an entitlement paid for through contributions.

On means testing, I make no apologies for representing the farming community on this issue. Many small farmers must look after elderly loved ones at home. However, if a small farmer works over ten hours on the farm, he is not entitled to a carer's allowance. When the introduction of the single payment was introduced, common sense prevailed but it has now gone out the window. If the Minister changes the carer's allowance system, he will be long remembered for it.

Dan Neville (Limerick West, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Penrose for initiating this debate. I also wish Deputies Brennan and Seán Power well in their recent appointments. The Department of Social and Family Affairs is important to many people, be they pensioners, unemployed, those with disabilities or carers.

Those caring for the mentally ill are often ignored. While they may not have the same physical pressures as those caring for the elderly or those with a disability, they must bear immense psychological stress and pressure. Last year, 10,500 people presented at accident and emergency departments having attempted to take their lives. A fifth of that number, 2,100, had presented for the second time in the same year. Can one imagine the stress their carers are under and the lack of recognition and assistance they receive? Approximately 50,000 people have attempted to take their lives but did not present at accident and emergency. Several parents have contacted me as to how to deal with their young daughters who have overdosed on several occasions yet refuse to seek help. Those people, the majority of whom are parents of young people, are under extreme pressure. As no community-based psychiatric facilities are available, no assessments are available to them.

While I agree it does not fall within the Minister's direct remit, I will give an example of such a case. I know of a young girl who in May 2000 suffered from depression, but recovered within two months and went on to third level studies. She relapsed into a deeper depression but she was able to resume her third-level studies in October. In May 2002, she became severely depressed and required ECT treatment but did not fully recover. Her parents referred her to St. Patrick's Hospital in Dublin on 13 September. On 18 September, the hospital informed her family she did not have adequate medical insurance. Her mother travelled to Dublin by train and brought her back to Limerick. She was extremely suicidal. She had attempted to take her own life the day after her 21st birthday on 5 August that same year. Her mother brought her to the Limerick Regional Hospital at midnight when they arrived home. Within 12 hours the mother was no longer a carer because the girl took her own life in a shower room in the hospital. I am trying to expose the stress affecting such families in that situation and which is not recognised.