Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats) | Oireachtas source

Deputy Cummins in her speech said she was disappointed; I am frankly furious. No disrespect to the Minister of State with responsibility for AI, but we have a senior Minister and three junior Ministers in the Department of Health and not one of them could stay for the debate. It shows the lack of interest the Government has in this issue. It shows a complete disrespect for the House and for the issues before us that not a single Minister in the Department of Health could stay here for what has been a debate of about an hour. They could not show that respect for the House. Not one Minister from the Department of Health could stay for a Bill on public health. The Government does not care about public health, and if anyone was in any doubt about that, tonight's evidence stands before us in that the Minister did not even stay to listen to the debate. I am furious. It is unacceptable and it is not good enough.

I honestly think we need to have real engagement on the issues. Frankly, it often feels in this House that you are shouting into a void. There was no engagement with the opening remarks we made about the evidence we set out or our argument because there was a different Minister here. The Government has just completely ignored what the Social Democrats put forward in our opening address and did not engage in any debate or any discussion. It is deeply frustrating. I say this as a new Member of the House: we need to run this Parliament better. It is not good enough. It is doing a disservice to the citizens of this State, to the people who elect us, that that is the quality of the debate we have in the House. It is utterly unacceptable, and I expect to engage with the Minister for Health and the junior Ministers on it. I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Smyth, to pass that message back to the Minister for Health.

I am also furious because the Minister of State's party leader, Micheál Martin, my constituency colleague, time and again in this House stands up here and tells us the Social Democrats have no ideas, no solutions, no policies. Then we push forward constructive Bills seeking to address what are real public health issues and the Government dismisses them out of hand for no solid reason at all. It is infuriating, frustrating and deeply disappointing. Is it any wonder there are so many people in this country who have no faith in Irish politics? There are so many citizens who disengage from the democratic process when that is the quality of the debate and the engagement in this House. When the Opposition comes in with solid proposals, backed up by evidence, supported by external groups, there is no engagement, the proposal is dismissed out of hand, "The Government is opposing this".

There is no talk of maybe taking it to Committee Stage or taking amendments. If the Government wants to make improvements, I am absolutely open to working with the Government, making amendments and making changes. As I said at the start, there is a reason we have a ten-step legislative process. We have Committee Stage, Report Stage and Final Stage, a Bill goes to the Seanad and it can be amended and improved there. If the Government wants to make changes, if it wants to increase the level to 1.5% instead of 0.5%, if it wants to make those small textual changes to the Bill, we have a process for it. We need to be honest with the people of Ireland about this because, as I said at the start, every single Government Bill gets amended. Some of them get amended into completely different Bills altogether. The Minister for Health tells us all the time how she took 600 amendments to the Mental Health Bill, but for an Opposition Bill we cannot take even one, and that is so frustrating.

I ask the Government to take a different approach. In the interests of democracy, of the citizens and of how we run this Republic, we need to do better. We need to actively engage in policy debates and discussions. We need to engage with the issues and for that to happen, a responsible Minister needs to stay in the House and listen to the contributions from Members. Members have prepared contributions, done research and worked on these issues for months and the Minister of State responsible walks out after making her contribution. She does not engage with the issues I raised or respond to any of the points put forward by the Social Democrats. Is that the quality we have from this Government? Is that what we are to expect from this Government? I expect more from Ministers and the Government and I want that message to go back tonight.

We heard from the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O'Connor, that we have got no evidence. I cited the international evidence in my opening address. I cited evidence from theInternational Journal of Drug Policy and the evidence published by Stanford University. I cited the Australian study and the Asian study. There is a stack of international evidence. There is research published by Alcohol Action Ireland which has a long reference list, with reports from the World Health Organization and universities around the world on this issue. This argument that there is not enough evidence is disingenuous. It is unacceptable and not good enough that the quality of decision-making by Cabinet is to say we do not have enough evidence.

I do not believe the Government really believes we do not have enough evidence, but if it does and it wants to get HIQA to look at this, all well and good. It would take a couple of months. The Government should put forward a timed amendment, as it does all the time, to say we will return to the issue in 12 months' time. If it is a question of evidence, why not introduce a timed amendment and have this debate in 12 months when the Government has the evidence from HIQA? It is not doing that. It is opposing the Bill for no good reason. It should have the honesty and decency to say that to the Irish people. There is not one good reason for the Government to oppose the Bill, other than the fact that it has been captured by the lobbyists and vested interests of the alcohol industry, who sit on the benches opposite as well. I debated with some of them on the radio yesterday - publicans and heads of the vintners' association inside and outside government who want to make money from selling alcohol. That is why they are opposing these public health alcohol Bills. The Government should have the honesty to say to people, "Actually, no, we're on the side of the alcohol industry, the lobbyists and those who want to make profit, not public health."

These are modest measures. All I am asking is that the Government enforce the 2018 Act in full, as passed by this House. If we cannot even enforce the legislation we pass, we have a rule-of-law issue. We have a significant issue if this democracy, Parliament and Government cannot enforce its own legislation because of big business and the lobbyists and vested interests who want to make money. The Minister of State, Deputy Smyth, needs to stand up to them. She needs to take her job seriously as a Minister in the Irish Government and stand up to the vested interests and say that in this democracy, in this country, the Government puts public health first and does not care if the alcohol industry loses some money, that it is going to protect the children of Ireland by not exposing them to alcohol ads on their way to school, on the bus, in the playground, in the supermarket and on television before 9 p.m., and that it is going to enforce the law as passed.

For anybody who sees those ads for Heineken 0.0, it is almost identical to the main product. Heineken has admitted this. It said when it applied for an award that it used the 0.0 ads as a way to increase sales of its main product. The industry admits this, so why can the Government not admit it? Everybody knows these are alcohol ads in a very cheap disguise. On television, sometimes viewers cannot even see the 0.0 when it is on the field of play. I do not think a 12-, 13- or 14-year-old who goes to a match in the Aviva should be bombarded with alcohol advertising. There is enough pressure on our young people without us forcing stacks of advertising on them. We know the earlier people start to drink, the more impact it has on them in later life. It is a risk factor for dependency in later life. Despite what the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O'Connor, said, there is an issue with youth drinking, which has increased. A Healthy Ireland study showed a 12% increase in youth drinking since 2018. That should concern the Minister of State, Deputy Smyth. We know from the Irish drug and alcohol survey that 37% of 15- to 24-year-olds had an alcohol use disorder. That should be a public health concern.

The officials in the Department of Health have let the Minister down. The speeches tonight should be reviewed. The debate we have had this evening is deeply disappointing. I ask the Minister of State and her colleagues to reflect on it. I ask her to bring that message back. Let us have honest, reasonable debates in this House. Let us engage in the issues. Let us try to work together in the interests of the people who elect us to improve public health and health outcomes. Is that too much to ask, instead of coming in here and opposing Bills for nonsensical reasons? They are a smokescreen.

Health warnings were the other excuse given. It is in the power of the Minister for Health to issue those regulations. She can draft them in any way she wants. If she wants to exclude 0.0 products, she can do that. That is her power as a Minister and I ask her to use it and draft those regulations in a way she sees fit. If the Minister of State wants her amendment, we can do it on Committee Stage. If she wants to wait for evidence, we can take a timed amendment. I am willing to compromise on that. In relation to health warnings, they should be done by regulation, as the Act set out. It was meant to be done by now but will not be done for another two years. I have doubts the Government will ever do it because it is captured by the vested interests of the alcohol industry and is not standing up for the interests of the young people of Ireland. It is deeply disappointing.

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