Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Before we get into the topic of today's meeting, I note that Senator Malcolm Noonan has joined the committee. He is very welcome. We all look forward to working with him, hearing his insights and having his input into the work this committee does. Cuirim fáilte roimh an Seanadóir.

I want to bring to the attention of witnesses and members the usual note on privilege. Witnesses who are giving evidence from within the parliamentary precincts are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give to the committee. This means that a witness has a full defence in any defamation action for anything said at a committee meeting. However, witnesses are expected not to abuse this privilege and may be directed to cease giving evidence on an issue at my direction as the Chair. Witnesses should follow the directions of the Chair in this regard and are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that, as is reasonable, no adverse commentary should be made against an identifiable person or entity. Privilege against defamation does not apply to the publication by witnesses outside of the proceedings held by the committee of any matter arising from the proceedings.

I advise members of the constitutional requirements that members must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate where they are not adhering to this constitutional requirement. Therefore, any member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to leave the meeting. Any member who is joining us by Microsoft Teams should, prior to making his or her contribution, confirm that he or she is on the grounds of Leinster House.

Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity.

If a member's statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction that I make.

The agenda for today's meeting is a resumed discussion of seaweed harvesting and licensing. Members will recall that we held a meeting on seaweed harvesting and licensing a number of weeks ago. This is the second part of that discussion. We are joined by representatives of the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment. I welcome Mr. Tony Collins, principal officer, Mr. Rory O'Leary, principal officer, and Ms Regina Deegan, assistant principal officer. Cuirim fáilte romhaibh.

Before we get into the opening statements and the question and answer session, I remind members that we are unable to discuss individual planning applications. I believe the officials are precluded from answering questions relating to individual applications. In the interest of getting good answers and having a good meeting with useful outcomes, I ask that we keep questions to policy approach, insofar as they relate to procedures and applications, in the general rather than the specific mould. The opening statements have been forwarded to members. I will allow the officials from the Department five minutes to make an opening statement, or less if they want. I remind speakers that there are clocks around the room and they should have regard to those and keep an eye on them. We will then move directly to questions and answers. Members will have seven minutes both to put their questions and to hear the answers, and I ask them to be mindful of that. Again, I ask members to also keep an eye on the clocks and to indicate if they wish to contribute, and I will come to them in due course. I will now hand over to the officials.

Mr. Tony Collins:

I thank the committee for the invitation to participate at today's meeting. I am the principal officer in the designated maritime area plans, DMAP, implementation and marine regulation section of the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment. I am joined today by my colleagues in the maritime affairs division of the Department. Ms Regina Deegan is an assistant principal on my team. Mr. Rory O'Leary is the principal officer in the marine strategic policy section.

The marine affairs division of the Department brings together the marine, environment, planning and regulation sections to ensure a more aligned and integrated approach to the sustainable management and long-term protection of our marine resources.

In 2024 and 2025, the marine functions that were previously within the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage were transferred to the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment. Prior to those transfers, Ireland’s first marine planning policy statement, MPPS, was published in November 2019 on a non-statutory basis. The enactment of the Maritime Area Planning Act 2021 subsequently provided a statutory framework for future MPPSs. Accordingly, the Government last week approved Ireland’s first statutory MPPS. This MPPS will serve as a high-level strategic policy guide sitting at the top of a hierarchy of plans and sectoral policies for Ireland’s maritime area.

Ireland's national marine planning framework, NMPF, published in 2021, sets out the State’s long-term approach to managing all marine-based human activities across our maritime area. The NMPF is the marine equivalent of the national planning framework for terrestrial planning. All public bodies and regulatory authorities are required to have regard to the NMPF while exercising their statutory functions. This approach is intended to ensure consistency and evidence-based decision-making across all Departments and agencies. The NMPF commits to, among other things, developing and maintaining a fit-for-purpose regulatory framework that supports sustainable seaweed harvesting, and the sustainability of seaweed as a natural resource underpins any licensing system.

Earlier this year, concerns were raised regarding some large maritime usage licence, MUL, applications that had been submitted to the Maritime Area Regulatory Authority, MARA, to commercially harvest seaweed. These concerns were brought to the attention of the Minister of State, Deputy Dooley, who has special responsibility for fisheries and the marine. The Minister of State then met and engaged with representatives on these matters. While the Minister of State is precluded by section 9 of the Maritime Area Planning Act from commenting on any application that is before MARA, he is aware of the important role that traditional seaweed harvesting plays in our rural coastal communities. The Minister of State requested that the existing regulatory framework for seaweed harvesting be examined to ensure it is appropriate to regulate wild seaweed harvesting and to adequately safeguard holders of traditional rights. This assessment is under way and will include consultations with key stakeholders and relevant Departments. We are, however, at the early stages of the assessment of the regulatory framework for seaweed harvesting and in that context, we very much welcome any recommendations or suggestions the committee may put forward today.

Manus Boyle (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Seaweed has become a vital part of employment in my county of Donegal. Companies there have expanded and are making fertiliser for golf courses and so on. The crux is that there might be people who have been harvesting seaweed for 20 or 30 years and we believe the rules are going to change in July 2028. What safeguards will be there for these local harvesters who go out every day to harvest and supply companies in Donegal? Has there been any engagement with the harvesters or the companies in Donegal to show that they are being supported and that, down the road, Irish seaweed factories will be supported and looked after? We have all heard about what was done in Galway and Mayo and how large companies came in and looked for rights. The harvesters here need the right to look after our own companies. From when I am hearing, and maybe the witnesses can elaborate on it, seaweed is being cut and exported when companies, especially in Donegal, are crying out for seaweed. What legislation is there to protect Irish companies and what tonnage is leaving Ireland? Nobody seems to know what is going on here.

Mr. Tony Collins:

To give a bit of history, prior to this Department holding the policy function, legal advice was sought regarding the rights of traditional seaweed harvesters. That culminated in advice in 2018 that indicated that the traditional rights of seaweed harvesters should not be impinged on by any licensing regime.

Subsequent to that, the MAP Act came into force and the national marine planning framework. Ultimately, the MAP Act put the consenting basis on MARA. It is provided for in Schedule 7 to the MAP Act that MARA would license seaweed harvesting. Over the course of MARA being established and taking on this function, the transfer of files and documentation from what is now the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment to MARA and engagement during the past year and a half to two years, we are now at a place where we are entering that assessment phase. We have seen some of the gaps or certainly some of them have been raised. There has been a lot of engagement between the harvesters themselves and MARA and subsequently MARA and the Department. As I said, we are at the early stage of assessment now and are engaging with MARA. We intend to engage with harvesters and entities that are involved in the sector and other Departments that will have an interest or a policy role in seaweed harvesting.

Manus Boyle (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What is going to happen in 2028 if we do not have this sorted? Will it be illegal for these harvesters to go down and do what they do every day? Will there be a plan in place for them? I have been talking to harvesters since this kicked off and to be honest, not one of them has any contact with MARA. What is being said by different people is that there was no contact and there is no plan for the future. There is no plan for our seaweed industry going forward. There needs to be a whole root and branch review taking place here.

From what I can see, and I have only been investigating this for the past while, I believe the licences are with the harvesters and they are doing a good job. They are protecting Irish seaweed moving forward. The harvesters are the boys who are out every day cutting seaweed. They are cutting it to the right length. They want it to regrow because it is in their interests. Then there are other companies coming in and taking what they want. There is no thought for the future. From talking to our harvesters, the best way to go is that they carry the licences and sell their product to the seaweed factories, let them take a full record of where the seaweed was cut and what nutrients and everything like that was in it, and pass the information on to MARA. Nobody seems to know where they are going under the plan at the minute. It does not have to be that complex, to be honest. If the Department engages with the harvesters and starts with them, and takes it up the whole way to the seaweed manufacturer, that is the way to go here.

Mr. Tony Collins:

We certainly have every intention of engaging with the harvesters. At present, there is a requirement to register a folio with Tailte Éireann to prove the traditional rights that harvesters have. This obviously has come into conflict with some of the maritime usage licence, MUL, applications MARA has received so it has paused consideration of those MULs until such time as there is a bit of a clearer direction. A step the Department has taken was that last year we issued a circular that provided that the ordinary, reasonable enjoyment of the foreshore would not require a licence and MARA has interpreted that to encompass traditional harvesting for seaweed, so there is a method to continue traditional harvesting for the time being.

Manus Boyle (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Maybe I could get some kind of answer to the question on seaweed being exported. I have no problem with exporting seaweed if we have an abundance of it but from what I hear there is seaweed being cut, loaded into lorries and sent to Europe when there are factories in Donegal crying out for it. That is something MARA should be looking at also when it is doing up the new plan. If there is an abundance of seaweed, yes, we can export. Nobody has a problem with that. The indigenous companies in Ireland are the ones that need to be looked after first and then whatever else we do not want can be exported. If there are different brands or different species that we have in abundance and do not use that other countries are looking for, we should definitely export that.

The core seaweed that we need to sustain jobs and companies must stay in Ireland first, and then we can export what we do not need.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Senator. There will be an opportunity for witnesses to respond to that in their next responses. I call Senator Noonan.

Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have two questions. The first relates to that point of sustainable harvesting, protecting those traditional rights and giving some recognition to these as heritage activities in coastal communities across the country. In the context of the upcoming marine protected areas legislation, does the Department have a view on whether there might be some element in which this type of traditional activity could be protected? My understanding of the way MPAs work is that they are not about strict protection in every area. Rather, it is about ensuring there is sustainable management and usage within MPAs. Is there an opportunity there to protect those traditional rights underpinned in the MPA legislation?

Mr. Rory O'Leary:

The short answer is “Yes”. There is opportunity within the MPA process. As the Senator will be aware, last week, the Government approved the publication of the general scheme of the marine protected areas (amendment) Bill, which will amend the Maritime Area Planning Act. There is quite a bit involved in that regard, including a regulatory system and the legal mechanism to designate marine protected areas through the DMAP process. I welcome the Senator’s comments because there is a lot of opportunity to look at the sustainable ecosystem approach in terms of what is happening.

Some or a lot of the harvesting might be taking place in areas already designated through the Natura designations as special areas of conservation, SACs, for example. If that is the case, we will probably have to work with that framework as well. It is not the case that we would be overlaying or overlapping. The idea is that it would be complementary to what might exist already in that space. Certainly, there is opportunity there to look at that.

From a policy perspective, the approach of the Department is to ensure we safeguard – to use the language of Senator Boyle – the rights of traditional seaweed harvesters, as well as the heritage and connection that is intrinsic to local communities. That heritage value is important. As we are looking through the regulatory system to make it work better, those aspects are foremost in our minds in order to ensure that we bring in the right and proportionate regulatory system that works for everyone. We are open to approaches and the best way to achieve that.

We have seen an evolution of the marine planning and the marine regulatory system in recent years. That is an evolution of a piece of work that we are continually refining. We are quite open to ensuring that works well for everyone. It has to work well for the traditional harvesters and local communities, but it also must be done in a sustainable and balanced way from an environmental perspective. We have obligations in that regard. It is also about maintaining traditional practices, livelihoods and local income in coastal communities. All of those bits are part of the solution. Certainly, they are foremost in our minds about how we navigate this space. We want to do so in a sensitive manner as well.

In respect of the marine protected areas approach, as we might have said already to this committee in different iterations, we have scope for it to be a kind of bottom-up approach. Proposals for marine protected areas could be co-created by local communities. There is huge potential and scope within that framework to reinforce that kind of a tradition in a sensitive and sustainable way. As the Senator rightly said, marine protected areas do not mean that all activity must be restricted. They can be designed bespoke for different purposes, etc. To summarise, there is huge flexibility and potential in that legislative approach that could be important in this regard.

Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is great potential in this regard. Those are welcome comments. That co-creation piece offers us some scope for sustainability.

My second question relates to the Climate Change Advisory Council’s report and the opportunity for sequestration of blue carbon.

Is the Department giving consideration to that piece around industrial harvesting versus sustainable management, and the potential for carbon sequestration from seaweed? Sustainable management could play an important role that perhaps we are not factoring into the emissions inventory we are trying to achieve nationally.

Mr. Rory O'Leary:

We have given this some consideration. It is certainly on our radar in terms of the potential. However, I will be honest and say we do not necessarily have a fully developed policy position in that respect worked through. It is something we are very mindful of. Similar to the MPA piece, there is potential there. We have to look at how a regulatory framework might make that work as well. We do not hold all of those levers. There is a piece there, and from a big picture point of view, it is certainly something we are open to considering. We have had initial discussions on it but we have not developed it any further at this point. We are very mindful of it and we will take note and work it through our internal processes as we help develop it with MPA legislation as well and see what the potential is.

Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses.

Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The witnesses are very welcome. The committee has received conflicting evidence on the question of whether large-scale commercial harvesting is sustainable and whether it carries the risk of displacing traditional harvesting methods. What is the Department doing to safeguard against this and protect small-scale harvesters and the environment?

Mr. Tony Collins:

As I set out earlier, traditional rights are being protected. MARA recognises them. We are precluded from examining any individual applications but, as I understand it, MARA is not progressing with any licensing applications for the harvesting of seaweed. This gives us a window to examine and assess the impacts. We have marine environment functions in the Department, and we are engaging with them on the sustainability element. The NPWS will have a role in terms of the special areas of conservation in place around the coastline. We will engage with the NPWS on the impacts of industrial harvesting.

Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask Mr. Collins to give further detail on Circular MP01/2025, which states that small-scale seaweed harvesting for personal use by an individual or group of individuals does not require a licence. If a small-scale harvester sells tiny quantities of seaweed to neighbouring farmers, for example, what is the situation there?

Mr. Tony Collins:

The Department circular, as I said earlier, sets out that small-scale traditional harvesting and small-scale harvesting generally are considered ordinary and reasonable enjoyment of the maritime area, and do not require a licence through MARA. MARA has taken that interpretation off the back of the circular the Department issued.

Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Does that apply where someone sells a small amount to neighbouring farmers?

Mr. Tony Collins:

At present, yes.

Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Those were my questions. I thank Mr. Collins.

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for coming in. We heard from stakeholders that the loss in growth in opportunity due to licensing uncertainties has had an economic impact on Gaeltacht areas, particularly around County Donegal. However, the extent of that is unclear. Will the Minister's assessment of the regulatory framework include engagement with stakeholders from the Gaeltacht communities, and will it consider the economic impact on these areas where this is a way of life and a tradition? When will this engagement happen? Is there a timeframe in place for when the Department will engage with the Gaeltacht communities?

Mr. Tony Collins:

We do not have a timeframe yet, but we intend to engage first with the Department of the Gaeltacht and, subsequently, with communities. There will be a stakeholder engagement as part of the assessment to get the views of people who are involved in this sector and make sure they are appropriately represented in the considerations and assessment.

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When Mr. Collins says there is no time for them whatsoever, there is nothing.

Mr. Tony Collins:

We are still at the early stages of this assessment.

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I understand that MARA has paused this. I understand where that element comes into it. I have said before that when we are dealing with traditional areas and Gaeltacht communities, we are looking at people who would not be computer literate and so on. They have always harvested there. This causes panic. They are worried about their way of life. They are worried because they are harvesting seaweed, but they are hearing conflicting reports about how much they can take to the market. We need some kind of framework or guidance in place. Will Mr. Collins explain the position for someone who harvests and goes to sell at a local market? What is the limit?

Mr. Tony Collins:

We have not determined the limit yet.

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Therefore, they can just keep going as normal, as they have traditionally done. It is important because people are looking at this. We need to give them some kind of hope. If there is no guidance, they need to know they can just keep going. That is the main thing. That is the message. I am asking this just in case there is a framework in place or something that gives them some form of guidance.

Mr. Tony Collins:

I take the point on the computer element of it. On MARA's website, there is a guidance note that explains clearly that the ordinary, reasonable enjoyment of the foreshore or the maritime space does not require a maritime usage licence, MUL. Traditional harvesters can continue to harvest as they would previously have done. They should be aware that they also have to register that folio or right with Tailte Éireann. MARA and Tailte Éireann are engaging on this. Tailte Éireann has those records, and MARA could use them to consider any future MUL applications. If Tailte Éireann has that complete or comprehensive register, it could inform the deliberations of MARA to ensure that traditional rights are not impinged.

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We have talked in the past about putting something in place, and I know that a helpline was in place to guide people. There are people who literally would not know how to do the computer side of things. We talked in the past about some type of campaign. Has that been considered to try to engage people and encourage them to come in?

Mr. Tony Collins:

We can certainly consider it in the assessment. As the Deputy said, if people do not have access to computers or are not using them, we need a way to communicate this. We will certainly consider that.

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Can the Department provide information on the scope of the stakeholders the Minister is engaging with during his assessment of the regulatory framework? Can it give an expected timeline for the assessment? When will it be completed?

Mr. Tony Collins:

The Minister has met with representatives of the harvesting community. I am sorry, but I do not have the list with me. There has been relatively recent engagement in the past six months, and I know there has been engagement by MARA with that sector as well. On the timeline, unfortunately, I do not have one at the moment. As I set out, there have been steps to get to this point, from the legal advice in 2018 and the various steps to implementing the legislation, with MARA stepping up as an entity and then identifying gaps in the regulatory process. We are at that assessment phase now. I cannot give a timeline, but it is something that is squarely on our minds.

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When people do not have a timeline, there is uncertainty. It spreads throughout, and it causes a lack of trust among the traditional harvesters. The benefits of traditional harvesting are adequately reflected in the planning and legislative framework underpinning the licensing regime.

Do the witnesses believe that? Is there room for improvement?

Mr. Rory O'Leary:

I will take that. The policy architecture is very important here. As Mr. Collins mentioned in the opening statement, we now have Government approval for a statutory marine planning policy statement, which is exactly that. It sits at the top of the hierarchy of our marine planning system. One of the priorities is to "support the development of a regulatory framework ... [appropriate to the types] of seaweed harvesting taking place, formulating policies which enhance and safeguard key seaweed species and having regard to the important economic and social contribution seaweed makes to coastal communities."

That is a very clear policy priority that is now, effectively, on the system to deliver. We have part of that in terms of the regulatory framework. Coming back to the bigger picture, we are one part of the puzzle of the marine planning and that regulatory system. We are very happy to speak to that. Some of the questions are asking more about the economic element of it and perhaps there is a broader role for other Departments, which we might engage with on that piece. We have certain levers within our Department and within the regulatory framework that we are very happy to work towards. We probably need others to assist with other aspects of that. That should be noted. In terms of the regulation of the type of seaweed harvesting that we would have a view on, we are very firmly there. It is in that document and that now gives us the mandate to do the work we are doing and make sure it is appropriate and fit for purpose. The policy is very clear on that and it speaks to the different types of seaweed harvesting. That can speak to the traditional piece as well.

We have spoken in broad terms around what our marine planning system is and how we have moved it. We are always trying to make sure it is proportionate and fit for purpose and that the regulation is proportionate and appropriate. It is about striking that balance between what might be low impact versus making sure the thresholds of environmental assessments, etc., are met. That is why it is very difficult to be very specific and say someone can take a certain number of tonnes from such a place without knowing the site or ecosystem in detail. It is not as easy to be binary on that. That is why there is a level of flexibility in the interpretation of what that circular was designed to do, which was to ensure there was a bit of proportionality in respect of that. Trying to translate that into a legal and regulatory framework is complex because there are a lot of competing priorities. However, we are committed to doing that. We will do it in consultation with the people who know best, and that is the point the Deputy is making there as well. I am very happy to engage across that because we want a system that works. We have obligations we need to fulfil here but we want to do it in a sensitive manner and make sure we have a proportionate regulatory framework in place that works for all. That is the policy objective. It is up to us to now translate that into the legislative or regulatory reality over the time ahead.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I want to zone in on the Marine Institute report titled A Socioeconomic Study of Seaweed Harvesting in Ireland to Support Marine Spatial Planning. I just want to get the witnesses' perspectives on that report and the issues it identified. One of the big issues I see is the lack of a multiagency or cross-departmental approach. In fairness, in the witnesses' presentation and in the briefing provided, I see a lot of language that is reassuring. Previously, when we were dealing with marine protected areas and offshore renewable energy, in fairness to the Department, it is acknowledging the concerns of a range of stakeholders and is also trying to deal with areas that have been historically neglected by the State. I commend the witnesses on their stated positions in this paper. I want to get a sense of how the co-operation across Departments and the various agencies. Basically, there has been a huge gap in this area.

Another area that was badly handled by the State, which was devastating, is the bottom mussel industry. There was huge potential in that industry some years ago. It was not regulated properly and we allowed foreign interests to buy up vessels to go in and basically the fishery was destroyed. People who invested ended up in the courts and that process is ongoing. We know from another area of our marine resource that was mismanaged how it can go disastrously wrong despite huge potential. That is recent history. I have a sense of the witnesses’ Department’s approach and much of it is welcome – reassuring people and engaging with people who have traditional harvesting rights – but how do they work across Departments and with other agencies? How do they make sure there is a co-ordinated approach as was recommended in the Marine Institute’s report on the socioeconomic study, Seaweed Harvesting in Ireland, to support marine and spatial planning? That was an important report. Will they take us through how the Department leans on that and how it implements the recommendations?

Mr. Tony Collins:

First and foremost, as the parent Department for MARA and from a policy perspective, there is a very close relationship there. In terms of understanding the gaps in the regulatory system, particularly for seaweed harvesting and what we, as a policy Department, need to consider, we will, in the usual manner, consult other Departments which have policy remits in this space, including the Department of the Gaeltacht and, as Mr. O’Leary set out, potentially the Department of enterprise. The more structured piece in place is the Project Ireland marine group that pulls together all Departments that have a policy area in the marine space. It meets on a quarterly basis to engage on policy areas across maritime affairs from defence to agriculture, marine planning and the environment.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The key recommendations in that report were a formal national sustainable seaweed harvesting policy; the establishment of geographically defined no-harvest seaweed zones; the creation of a transparent and responsive registration, licensing, reporting and regulation system; the development of an independent dedicated seaweed research centre; the fast-tracking of the development of a seaweed farming industry; and co-ordination of business support. The witnesses can only address what is under their Department’s own departmental responsibility but are they happy, working with colleagues in other Departments and agencies, that those recommendations are being implemented?

Mr. Tony Collins:

We have not gone into detail on whether they are being implemented but as part of our assessment we are aware of that report and it will form part of the consideration and the recommendations. It will certainly be considered as we move through our assessment piece. As the Deputy said, elements of the recommendations will fall within our Department and others will not. For those that do not, we can look to the Project Ireland marine and see if that structure can progress them or have them implemented in some shape or form.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Who is in the helicopter? Who is ultimately responsible for making sure we have a national sustainable seaweed policy? That is my fear. Having heard the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment over a number of sessions on different areas, I am happy about the issue of stakeholders and bringing people together. I think the language is responsive and good. It strikes me that the Minister of State, Timmy Dooley, needs to be in the helicopter. He has asked for these policy gaps to be identified. The Marine Institute has carried out a very good report on this area which I would endorse. I want to get a sense of this. Is there a cross-departmental group dealing with this? Is someone chairing this to make sure it is actually happening? We need to know as a committee if it is not happening and we will write to the Minister and ask that it does happen urgently.

Mr. Rory O'Leary:

That is a great question. As I said, our Department is one part of the puzzle when we look at what we have on the regulatory piece and the maritime area planning piece. We have responsibility from a policy and legislative perspective for what we would call traditional seaweed harvesting on the basis of it being attached to a rock, the seashore or something like that. The Deputy is right that there is a much broader economic enterprise piece here that probably requires a significant level of interdepartmental engagement which the Marine Institute report sets out so well. There is not an interdepartmental co-ordination group specific to seaweed that I am aware of. It may be there and we do not know about it but there is not one that we are participating in. We would like to see, and would support, greater co-ordination across government. What we are trying to do in the Department’s marine affairs division at a strategic level, through marine planning and through our obligations on a marine environment, is to drive that coherence. We acknowledge that not all the policy responsibility is in our Department. I am always reluctant to come into a committee and say, "That is not our role; it is somebody else's". It is not a good answer to give but we are trying to bring together all the actors and make it work because it has to work for all the sectors. There are other parts of the seaweed industry that would be beyond the traditional harvesting piece, which might be the discussion today, such as the economic piece and the export market which Senator Boyle referred to. Competence for those or expertise in understanding might lie with other Departments. The Department of agriculture might have a role as well. We are committed to using the Project Ireland marine structure to drive that coherence and co-ordination. We have that mandate from the Minister. We will take it back and see what we can do a little better but the direct answer to the Deputy’s question is that structure is not there on seaweed at the moment and there is probably a gap there that requires a much more coherent response.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I might move to Deputy Cahill now and we will have a second round.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Of course, yes. I was just going to suggest the committee would write to the Minister seeking clarification on how the recommendations of that report are being implemented.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is a very sensible action to emanate from this meeting. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Michael Cahill (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome our guests and thank them for their statements. I like the idea of coastal communities benefitting from what is literally outside their doors and making a livelihood whether that be in the context of seaweed harvesting, picking carrageen moss, mussel or oyster farming, picking cockles or periwinkles or whatever. It is a well-known fact that coastal communities are facing huge challenges. We have seen it and have discussed it here on numerous occasions in relation to massive fishing quota cuts, delays in the processing of aquaculture licences, etc. I should acknowledge it is very important to protect our marine resource.

In the context of harvesting seaweed on a commercial basis, what is the downside, if any? What are the pros and cons, if any? It is important that we be properly informed. I say this in the context of my own county as I am receiving emails about seaweed harvesting in Kenmare Bay. I would like some more information on that.

Mr. Tony Collins:

I am not in a position to go into the pros and cons of harvesting at the moment. We are in the early stage of the assessment, as I said. The Deputy’s point about coastal communities and the economic benefits will be very important in the consideration and the economic benefits that accrue to coastal communities is something we can discuss with the stakeholders.

As Mr. OLeary set out, there will be other economic considerations in terms of industrial harvesting. While they should come into consideration, they will not form part of our policy space. The Project Ireland marine group is the appropriate space for that discussion. The Department of agriculture is on that group. It would be a good forum to take that forward.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have a number of questions. Deputy Maxwell can come in first, however.

David Maxwell (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for coming in. We know that some people have rights to harvest. Those people can harvest without the need for a licence. What is the cut-off point in that regard? Is it half a tonne, a tonne or two tonnes per season?

There is hand foraging. We have foraging, hand harvesting and then we have mechanical harvesting. If a person, through the rights they have, owns enough to take, say, four tonnes in a season, which they mechanically harvest, do they need a licence to do so? Where is the cut-off point? Are there cut-off points? What is the differentiation to say that this person has to get a licence when they already have the rights?

Mr. Tony Collins:

How we go about determining that is going to be one of the key considerations of the assessment, it will likely be site-specific. The impacts will be different in different areas but we will have to have an appropriate definition of what traditional harvesting constitutes and whether it is solely hand harvesting or involves mechanical harvesting in some shape or form.

Volumes will also be site-specific. There will be a variety of environmental impacts, depending on the location. We will have to engage with our marine environment colleagues and the likes of the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS, to delve into that in further detail.

David Maxwell (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Let us take a farmer who has 60 acres and a farmer who has 500 acres, or someone who has 500 m of foreshore compared with another who has one mile of foreshore. Are we going to scale that from the person with 500 m to the one with one mile? There has to be some sort of a scaling up. We cannot just have a blanket rule. For example, take someone who has 2,000 m of foreshore whose father and grandfather have been harvesting it. This must be scaled up to the person who might have one and half fields, or maybe 200 m of foreshore. That is critical. For those with longer lengths of foreshore, we also must look at the fact that they might want to hire mechanical machinery because it is labour-intensive work. We must look at those things.

Mr. Tony Collins:

That is certain. Mr. O’Leary mentioned earlier that the impact – both the regulatory and environmental impacts - must be proportionate. That is a key consideration. It is something we will have to consider when developing the appropriate regulatory regime.

David Maxwell (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

While I think it may have already been asked, when do we hope to have the regulatory regime in place? When are we going to have certainty? If I am a seaweed harvester on the west coast today, I am a bit in limbo. When do we hope to have this nailed down in a document that harvesters can look at and understand how they are classed?

Mr. Tony Collins:

As I said earlier, I cannot give the Deputy a definite timeframe. There are a number of elements progressing at the moment, not least the marine planning policy statement and the general scheme of the marine planning areas Bill. They have to come into consideration when we consider the appropriate vehicle to regulate this sector and whether we work to those timelines or adopt an alternative manner in which to regulate.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have a number of questions. This is the second meeting on this matter. This process began back in February when this committee received correspondence from Deputy Farrell asking the committee to examine this issue.

That is on foot of a lot of disquiet along the west coast regarding the status of traditional seaweed harvesters. I have certainly learnt a lot about this issue over the past number of months from Deputy Farrell and others, including the witnesses who are present today and those who have been before the committee previously. One issue is that it can be quite difficult for some traditional harvesters to prove their claims. Of course, there is a burden of proof on them in order to register a folio with Tailte Éireann. Some might not have access to documentation or the documentation might not have been recorded correctly in the first instance. In the design of the process, what regard is had to the passage of time and the nature of these traditional rights to harvest seaweed?

Mr. Tony Collins:

The onus to register with Tailte Éireann rests with the harvester. Tailte Éireann is not an agency that comes under the remit of the Department. We can certainly discuss the process with Tailte Éireann to determine whether an approach could be developed or to establish the level of engagement Tailte Éireann could have with traditional harvesters. First and foremost, however, it is for Tailte Éireann to consider that. We can certainly discuss with Tailte Éireann in the context of our assessment process in order to determine whether an approach can be developed.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That would be useful. I request that Mr. Collins ensure that it forms part of the assessment process and the engagement with Tailte Éireann. For various reasons, it is proving difficult for some people to register. Many of those reasons are individual and relate to how their rights came about and were transferred over years. How many people have been able to register a folio and thereby record their rights? The witnesses may not have that information to hand. Is the Department aware of the number of people who have sought to do that but who have been unsuccessful? Are those figures available?

Mr. Tony Collins:

Those figures are not available to us at the moment. Again, in the context of the engagement with Tailte Éireann, we can see whether we can arrive at a figure. I am not sure we will be able to do so for the number of people who have been unable to register, but it might be possible to determine the number who have registered.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I totally understand that it can prove difficult to measure the number of people who have been unable to register, no matter what kind of system is being administered. It would be worthwhile, as part of the assessment and engagement with Tailte Éireann, to arrive at a methodology that would capture the number of people who have made an honest attempt to register but who have been unable to do so. This would mean at least mean there would be a level of oversight and knowledge of. It may be an issue affecting a good proportion of traditional seaweed harvesters.

A number of members asked about the timeline. It was stated that it is not possible to provide a timeline at this stage. That is understandable. Perhaps the witnesses could explain some of the difficulties involved in arriving at a timeline and whether there is - not to be Jesuitical - a timeline for establishing a timeline. Does the Department have a sense as to when it may be able to deliver some certainty on this?

Mr. Tony Collins:

With regard to developing a timeline, this matter is quite complex. It will take a considerable level of assessment. There are a lot of moving parts involved. There are a lot of policy areas across a range of different Departments. As I said to Deputy Maxwell, there are a number of active policy areas in this regard, such as the making of legislation with the general scale of the marine area planning Bill. We will need to identify the appropriate vehicle to use to progress. There will be timelines associated with the various elements of the Bill that will have to go through within a certain window.

The marine planning policy statement will then have to be implemented. The approach taken will determine when we will be in a position to determine a timeline.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank Mr. Collins. That is appreciated.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for attending. This is a major issue in Mayo. I welcome that they have come. Everyone I have spoken to, whether it be MARA or the National Parks and Wildlife Service, points to someone else. In many cases, people point to the Department. In such circumstances, it is good that the officials from the Department are here.

The Department outlined that MARA has paused live applications for MULs. Why has the process been paused and for how long will it be paused?

Mr. Tony Collins:

MARA is independent in its functions; it makes determinations according to its independence. The process has been paused because MARA has prioritised the likes of offshore renewable energy applications. It has progressed through them and is getting to other------

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They are paused primarily due to a resource issue in MARA as opposed to regulatory gaps in the system.

Mr. Tony Collins:

As I understand it, yes. However, there are issues with the regulatory system that MARA has identified. The circular the Department issued in-----

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am conscious of time. Was it paused because of a regulatory issue, resources in MARA or both?

Mr. Tony Collins:

It was a prioritisation in MARA in the first instance, and it could potentially be regulatory now.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

For how long will it be paused? Does Mr. Collins have any idea?

Mr. Tony Collins:

No, I do not have detail on that.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The deadline of 2028 is fast approaching. What has the Department done to ensure that the regulatory burden of registration and all the financial costs involved will not be placed on small seaweed harvesters who might be taking in small amounts of seaweed. I refer here, for example, to a business that might have seaweed baths on Achill Island?

Mr. Tony Collins:

The onus is on the harvester to register with Tailte Éireann. It is a process that sits outside the Department. Harvesters register with that agency.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am frustrated with this idea of passing the buck. There is a deadline of 2028. There are fees for MARA, which are in the region of €2,000. There are significant fees for environmental reports and so on, as well as Tailte Éireann's fees. I have waited a long time for answers, and everyone has pointed to the Department. The Department is the lead agency on this. What is it doing to help seaweed harvesters in order that they will not be faced with massive costs in 2028?

Mr. Tony Collins:

The circular the Department issued last year exempted the ordinary reasonable enjoyment of the foreshore, which means that a traditional harvester-----

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Can the Department define what constitutes ordinary enjoyment, because my understanding is-----

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Would the Deputy mind letting Mr. Collins finish a sentence?

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is-----

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No, hang on. I am speaking. Please allow Mr. Collins finish a sentence. The Deputy can then come back in.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am conscious of time.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Do not interrupt me. I am conscious of time. I am also conscious of decorum in the context of how this committee operates, so the Deputy should please allow the witness finish a sentence. Then the Deputy may come back in with his additional questions.

Mr. Tony Collins:

I thank the Chair. The Department issued a circular last year in which it exempted ordinary reasonable enjoyment of the foreshore, which MARA has taken to apply to traditional harvesters. As a result, they are not required to go through the MUL process and get licences from MARA.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Can Mr. Collins provide a definition of "ordinary enjoyment"? My question relates to how small a harvester must be for the activities involved to qualify as ordinary enjoyment.

Mr. Tony Collins:

It applies if it being done on a non-commercial basis or being used for domestic purposes.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What is the quantity?

Mr. Tony Collins:

There is no quantity.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Would a person who has a seaweed bath on Achill Island and who is running a small business on a seasonal basis qualify under ordinary enjoyment and, therefore, not need to apply for the MUL?

Mr. Tony Collins:

If they have a traditional right to harvest seaweed, they qualify under the circular.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Even though they would technically be using it for commercial purposes.

Mr. Tony Collins:

It is the circular that is determining MARA's interpretation, but what the Deputy is asking about is certainly something we will have to consider in the assessment. We will have to decide what the thresholds for collection are, look at what the ultimate use of the seaweed is and what the various definitions are and then-----

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am trying to be constructive. My point is that the term "ordinary enjoyment" - and I heard the Department respond to various questions about it this afternoon - is very limited. It is very narrow when one looks at the detail. The vast majority of seaweed harvesters will not fall into that category. They might be harvesting a small amount of seaweed and using it for commercial reasons. That is the point. That is the fundamental issue I want to get across to the witnesses. That must be expanded or the Department must reduce the threshold of the regulatory burden and potentially look at a reduced fee structure for these small-scale harvesters. Is that something the Department is willing to consider?

Mr. Tony Collins:

We are certainly looking at all options in the assessment process. The process for smaller scale commercial activity is something we will look at and consider.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome that. I am happy that was stated before the committee.

Two things the Department should consider are a tiered structure of fees to cover small-scale producers, because the vast majority of them will not fall under the ordinary enjoyment exemption, and the idea of a co-operative where farmers could come together and would not have to go through all the onerous regulation and environmental assessment and pay fees. I held a public meeting on this matter in Newport. Hundreds of seaweed harvesters attended and raised it. I request that the Department consider both of the solutions to which I refer, because, currently, what is on offer will not work for the vast majority of people. The regulatory system, as I see it, is for the large players, namely the big multinational companies. That has to be said.

Mr. Collins outlined that the Department is willing to engage in consultation.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy is over time.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Can I finish the question? I will be quick.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No. The question will elicit a response and we will go several minutes over as a result.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will be very quick. It is very important.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is all very important. We will go to Senator Boyle and Deputy Mac Lochlainn. There will then be another opportunity for people to come back in. I have to be fair to everyone.

Manus Boyle (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I only have one question. I will be brief. The briefing states that Donegal Seaweed identifies the key issues to be a lack of transparency and communication within the industry, differing approaches to harvesting and the lack of a harvesting framework. It is seeking to establish a regional harvesting group to review this. I have had a few meetings with seaweed harvesters and seaweed companies in Donegal. There is a willingness to try to get this working. One depends on the other. The factory is no good without the harvester and vice versa. As Deputy Lawless said, things might be different in Galway and Mayo than they are in Donegal. The way to go would be good to take a regional look at it to see what would work in Donegal, compared with Mayo and Galway and then come up with an overall package. From talking to the harvesters and seaweed companies in Donegal, I know that they want the harvesters to retain the individual rights they have for 20 or 30 years. If we can relay that, that these harvesters will not be pushed out of the way for the bigger boys to come in and do what they want, we will have the momentum to move forward. It is the lack of clarity at the moment that has people's backs up. The sooner the Department comes out with its report and gets people talking about it, the better. It is the fear that is causing the major problem.

Mr. Tony Collins:

On stakeholder engagement, we would certainly be happy to engage with the industry and traditional harvesters. I appreciate what the Senator said about communication. We will have to consider communication in our assessment and make sure that there is clarity for people in the industry.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the fact that the Department has outlined that it will engage in consultation. I ask it to travel the west coast of Mayo and other coastal counties, hold public meetings and hear from ordinary families that have been doing this for generations.

I am concerned about MARA's capacity to process large-scale applications, particularly in light of the fact that foreshore ownership and historical harvesting rights have not been fully mapped. I believe there has been insufficient time for native seaweed harvesters to register those rights with Tailte Éireann, etc. Is Mr. Collins concerned that MARA does not have the ability to grant or even process these large-scale applications in light of so much ambiguity as regards native seaweed harvesters' rights?

Mr. Tony Collins:

I am not concerned about MARA's capacity. I know it has been going through an efficiency process to look at its processes to go through the MAC and MUL applications and increase delivery or throughput.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

My question is not necessarily about resources. It is about the ambiguity relating to the foreshore - that MARA does not have clear oversight of what the existing rights on the foreshore are. For example, when a large-scale seaweed harvesting application comes in for potentially thousands of hectares of geographical area on the coastline, how does MARA process that if it does not know Joe Bloggs down the road has a traditional harvesting right?

Mr. Rory O'Leary:

One of the important pieces here is that we need to build the picture of who has those traditional rights right around the coast. There is a piece of work there. Part of the work we will be doing is making sure we can build that picture. We have to know what is out there. I would not be concerned with regard to MARA. As part of a licensing application, for example, there is public consultation and there are ways of ensuring that the information is out there. What the Deputy is speaking to is exactly the concerns that have been raised, which is why we have undertaken this regulatory re-examination. We want to reassure people tuning in that, from the policy perspective, we are absolutely clear that if people hold rights to harvest seaweed, while there is obviously an obligation that they can register those rights, we want to ensure that this map and that picture are fully understood so that if somebody was to come in and apply for a bigger licence, it is clear whether they can or cannot do so or if there are traditional rights in place.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Does Mr. O'Leary accept that this is a difficult task currently?

Mr. Rory O'Leary:

Absolutely. It is why we are here examining this very complex issue.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Given how serious it would be if a licence was granted over effectively another family who has had it for generations and the significant issue that would create, should large-scale applications not be paused until such time as MARA has full oversight and transparency regarding foreshore ownership?

Mr. Rory O'Leary:

What we are trying to do is build that regulatory certainty to avoid the prospect of that happening. There are probably safeguards in the system already to prevent that but what we need to do is make the system a little more robust and make that clearer.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

How is that happening? What is being undertaken in the Department to make sure that MARA has the ability to process these applicants?

Mr. Rory O'Leary:

We have a piece of work under way that will include a lot of consultation with exactly the people the Deputy referred to about how we effectively design an appropriate, proportionate and fit-for-purpose regulatory system that deals with traditional harvesting rights.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What is the timeline?

Mr. Rory O'Leary:

I do not have the timeline. We spoke about that earlier. We are working hard to develop that and we will consult and work on the process-----

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Would it not be wise and prudent then to issue a notice to MARA to hold off on accepting or processing any large-scale applications until the Department has addressed the regulatory gaps?

Mr. Rory O'Leary:

Things can go hand in hand. MARA makes its own decisions. In terms of a licensing system that is up and running, MARA has made its own adjudications in terms of where it sits in that space. I know it has been in front of this committee. Our job is to get the policy and the legislative framework right-----

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Surely the Department's job is to make sure that MARA has the ability to do its job and, clearly, one huge impediment to MARA being able to process and grant licences is its inability to determine what is happening on the ground, who owns foreshore licences and what native seaweed harvesters exist. That is an obvious issue facing MARA.

Mr. Rory O'Leary:

MARA is working very hard to ensure that it builds that picture and understands who exactly might be affected through a licence or an application process. That is exactly the work that is ongoing.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The point I am making is that the lack of consultation with native seaweed harvesters is actually preventing the streamlining of the process.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy is over time. I will allow him to finish.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The fact that it is so difficult for seaweed harvesters to register and the Department has not engaged with or assisted those people has actually left a significant amount of ambiguity in the entire system. It is important that the Department address these issues first before we can actually-----

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have given the Deputy plenty of leeway. He has put his question, we will allow a response and then we are done.

Mr. Tony Collins:

The obligation is to register with Tailte Éireann. As part of our assessment process, the Department will engage with the industry, stakeholders and harvesters to see what their views and perspectives are and take those into consideration as we develop this regulatory system. The information gap is between what is registered with Tailte Éireann and what MARA has access to, and that is a gap we have to close. The information does not sit with MARA so we need to close that gap in order that it can take it into consideration when it is looking at the licence applications.

Paul Lawless (Mayo, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The 2028 deadline is coming

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy has put his questions and is well over time. We are moving on. The question-and-answer part is over.

I thank the witnesses for their attendance and for answering the questions. They will notice that there was commonality in many of the points raised by members around certainty, timelines, the difficulty with registering title, acknowledgement of traditional harvesting rights, and consultation. I echo the points made by many members that in areas affected as part of the assessment, there should be consultation and engagement with the public. I know the Department has done this successfully with regard to other marine planning issues and in a way that allowed people to have their say, access information and give feedback. I ask that a similar approach form part of this approach. That will be important.

I again thank the witnesses for their attendance. Over the next couple of weeks, we will put together a report based on the testimony at this meeting and the first meeting we had on seaweed harvesting and licensing. Committee members, other Members of the Oireachtas, witnesses and members of the public are welcome to make written submissions that will be considered by the committee. As there are no further matters for discussion, the meeting stands adjourned.