Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Tuesday, 30 June 2026
Joint Oireachtas Committee on Artificial Intelligence
AI and the Environment: Discussion (Resumed)
2:00 am
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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We have received apologies from Deputy James Geoghegan and Senator Laura Harmon. I advise members of the constitutional requirement that members must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings. As regards parliamentary privilege, witnesses and members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of that person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.
Today's meeting is our third in a series on the topic of AI and the environment. This is a very important topic and I am glad that we can discuss it here today. I am pleased to welcome from Enterprise Ireland Mr. Mark Christal, executive director, and Ms Alexa Toomey, head of scaling and AI strategies. They are both very welcome. From IBEC, we are joined by Ms Una Fitzpatrick, director of Technology Ireland, and Mr. Erik O’Donovan, head of digital and AI policy. I thank all the witnesses for coming here today. We look forward to their insights.
I now invite the witnesses to give their opening statements.
Mr. Mark Christal:
I thank the members for the invitation to attend this meeting today and to engage with the Joint Committee on Artificial Intelligence. We welcome this opportunity to assist the committee with its ongoing work on the opportunities and challenges presented by artificial intelligence. I am an executive director with Enterprise Ireland. In my directorate, I have responsibility for our sectoral and client solutions divisions, which play an important role in Enterprise Ireland’s work to support indigenous exporters to grow and scale and to achieve their global ambitions. I am delighted to be joined by my colleague Alexa Toomey, who is head of scaling and AI strategies in Enterprise Ireland.
Enterprise Ireland is the State agency responsible for supporting Irish-owned companies to start, grow and scale and to win business in global markets. We work with more than 4,500 Irish businesses that are exporting or are in the early stages of their exporting journey. We are the largest investor in early-stage start-ups in Europe and the primary funder of applied research in Ireland across our third level institutions. We are a global team of almost 900 people working across ten offices in Ireland and 42 international offices, providing companies with financial and non-financial supports both here in Ireland and in global markets at all stages of their exporting journey. Our organisation is committed to supporting the Irish enterprise base to maximise opportunities and to navigate any challenges that may arise while delivering positive environmental and social impacts.
Our vision is to grow the sustainable impact, resilience and reputation of Enterprise Ireland and our client base. Keeping pace with evolving sustainability expectations for business, we have set ambitious targets and actively support decarbonisation projects, approving €77 million to date to help clients on this journey.
At its simplest, Enterprise Ireland is a purpose-driven organisation that is committed to supporting a vibrant economy that will be driven by balanced regional development through sustainable communities in Ireland. This will be achieved by investing in homegrown Irish exporting businesses in towns and villages in every region around the country. Our mission is to accelerate sustainable Irish business. Enterprise Ireland’s long-term ambition is that Irish-owned exporting businesses will become the primary driver of our national economy. This will take a whole-ecosystem approach, and we look forward to continuing to work with our partners across government and the wider enterprise base, including the network of local enterprise offices and our parent Department, the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment.
Our client base comprises companies of varying scale operating across the technology, manufacturing and services sectors. We also support high-potential start-up companies, predominantly innovative enterprises. We are committed to working with these companies across all sectors and at different stages of their enterprise journey to support them as they embed AI and digital solutions into their operations. Innovations from our indigenous exporters are increasingly in demand around the world, with many offering solutions to shared global challenges. As an example, our climate tech and renewable energy and high-tech construction portfolios both saw exports increase by 24% in 2025, with many of these companies becoming essential components in the supply chain for critical infrastructure projects around the world.
Our clients are also playing a key role in committing to achieving offshore wind and broader sustainable energy ambitions, aligned with the Government’s climate action plan, which set out a pathway to significantly increase renewable electricity generation and deliver large-scale offshore wind capacity supported by grid and enabling infrastructure. For example, earlier this year, Enterprise Ireland launched Propel Ireland, a new innovation centre focused on driving collaboration, innovation and supply chain development across Ireland’s offshore wind sector. This will enable companies to address shared global challenges while supporting the development of a competitive supply chain for domestic and international projects.
In a spite of a decade of economic shocks and extraordinary geopolitical events, the agile and resilient companies supported by Enterprise Ireland are economic pillars in towns, villages and communities the length and breadth of the country. Our companies employ over 232,000 people and 69% of the new roles created in 2025 were located outside of Dublin, reflecting our focus on balanced regional development. Exports from these clients reached a record level of €38.86 billion in 2025, an 8% increase on the previous year, and have almost doubled in the past decade. Our client base also spent a record €43.73 billion in the Irish economy last year, or almost €120 million each day across payroll, goods and services and in local supply chains. This success is down to the hard work, tenacity and determination of the companies we support, and their ambition is backed by an incredible team in Enterprise Ireland who are committed to supporting Irish exporters to become global leaders in their field, delivering a platform for strong economic growth by creating and sustaining jobs in all regions. With the right supports, Irish enterprises can be the catalyst behind the next wave of our economic growth.
We are now in year one of our five-year strategy, Delivering for Ireland, Leading Globally. We have ambitious targets for our enterprise base. By the end of 2029, we want to achieve increased employment to 275,000 and increases in exports to €50 billion, support over 1,000 new start-up companies and increase research and development spend and the number of new exporting companies. To secure our future economy and protect it from further external shocks, we must strengthen the digital capabilities of the enterprise base, which includes a focus on a stronger and more strategic balance between our foreign direct investment, FDI, companies and our homegrown exporters. It also includes supporting our homegrown exporters to scale up, be more competitive, double down on innovation and invest in people and skills. All this includes harnessing and utilising all the opportunities that AI and digitalisation bring.
Global business is experiencing a rapid acceleration in the adoption of AI, because it presents a profound technology-driven opportunity while also bringing new challenges. The Irish enterprise base, which includes small and medium enterprises, increasingly recognises that AI is critical to remaining competitive in a rapidly evolving global market. For example, half of the 198 new start-up companies supported by Enterprise Ireland last year had AI as a central part of their product or service. As new tools and technologies emerge at pace, businesses that apply AI effectively will gain a clear advantage. However, the implications extend beyond productivity to business model viability, competitiveness, workforce composition and leadership capability. Analysis by the Department of Finance and the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, highlights that while AI has strong potential to drive productivity growth and support job creation, outcomes vary significantly and are highly dependent on sector, client type and the readiness of senior leadership teams.
AI is becoming core business infrastructure for many clients, particularly in advanced manufacturing, life sciences, agritech and internationally traded services, where AI presents a significant opportunity to scale, differentiate and enhance competitiveness. In sectors such as software as a service, SaaS, professional services and administrative intensive activities, AI also presents a material risk of disruption where firms do not adapt strategically. In this context, the speed of response, leadership capability and access to skills will be critical determinants of success, outweighing access to AI alone. While AI can be a significant driver of growth, it will likely cause short-term disruption for some. Enterprise Ireland is committed to supporting our client base to navigate this ever-evolving landscape and harnessing it effectively through our range of existing supports and new targeted initiatives focusing on adoption.
Our team in Ireland and overseas are heavily and extensively engaged with our client base across all sectors. Harnessing new digital tools, including AI, has formed a key part of those discussions. This proactive engagement includes one-to-one meetings as well as sectoral and group events, such as webinars and buyer engagements. In a recent client survey, participants identified AI and machine learning as the number one upskilling need. Supporting Ireland’s workforce and companies through this transition is critical. As Ireland’s workforce ages and the pipeline of younger entrants narrows, graduates must be equipped to thrive alongside AI while existing workers are supported to reskill and adapt. Enterprise Ireland is focused on helping client companies respond to these demographic shifts by embedding skills analysis, supporting AI adoption, strengthening workforce capability and promoting lifelong learning.
We work with clients to harness AI tools, assessing the opportunities they present and what potential challenges may arise. This is not a one-size-fits-all approach; our work with our client base is focused on how these tools can help them to improve competitiveness, innovation and productivity. We want to help companies develop and implement strategies that respond to their needs including structural change in markets, revenue models and skills. This includes supports at all stages, from early exploration and use-case development through the digital discovery grant to deployment through the digital process innovation grant. Enterprise Ireland also supports companies to harness and utilise the full supports available from our national and European ecosystem, which includes research centres, programmes, technology gateways, EDIs and funding supports. We are committed to enabling the growth of AI-driven businesses that can deliver long-term economic growth.
AI is fundamentally reshaping the nature of work. The transition is already evident within our own organisation. Our clients’ global ambition is matched by the capability and commitment of our people here and across our network of international offices. Supporting our teams to remain agile, responsive and effective in a rapidly evolving environment is a priority. Client service excellence remains the defining principle of our strategy. Over the next five years, we are focused on enhancing the delivery of client service and experience including the targeted use of technology, digital engagement and improving access to EI’s supports and services. Our AI strategy is anchored in this. We are leveraging AI to enhance productivity, strengthen decision-making and enable a more data-informed, responsive organisation underpinned by AI. Realising the full potential of AI requires clear leadership and sustained investment. While roles will continue to evolve, AI's primary impact will be on tasks rather than jobs, freeing our people to apply their expertise in higher value and more strategic ways. It also expands our capacity to generate deeper insights from data, unlocking new opportunities to compete and succeed globally.
AI presents one of the most significant opportunities for Irish enterprise in a generation. While it undoubtedly brings challenges, overarchingly it has the potential to enhance productivity and fundamentally strengthen competitiveness, accelerate innovation and open new routes to global markets. Enterprise Ireland believes Irish enterprise will be a key driver in the next wave of future economic growth. The ability to harness and scale AI effectively will be a key factor in the economic resilience and growth of our indigenous exporters. EI is actively engaged with our clients to ensure they are positioned to realise these opportunities. Through sustained, practical engagement across sectors, we support businesses to understand the strategic implications of AI, identify relevant use cases and embed these technologies in ways that deliver tangible impacts and value. Our approach is tailored, recognising that each company’s needs are different and that successful adoption is as much about leadership, skills and strategy as it is about technology itself. Our focus is clear: to ensure that Enterprise Ireland not only keeps pace and remains competitive but leads in areas of strength. By continuing to invest in capability, supporting adoption at scale and working closely with the broader ecosystem, we are helping our clients to harness AI into real economic impact. In doing so, we are positioning indigenous exporters to capture the opportunities ahead, compete at the highest level internationally and become the primary driver of the Irish economy.
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
I thank the Chair and members of the committee for the opportunity to appear before them today alongside my colleague Erik O'Donovan. Technology Ireland and Cloud Infrastructure Ireland are the IBEC groups representing the technology and cloud infrastructure industries, respectively. The member companies of both associations have a substantial presence here, employing thousands of people directly and supporting a broad ecosystem of Irish jobs, skills and investment.
Much of the discussion around cloud infrastructure and data centres understandably focuses on energy and sustainability. Often, however, less attention is given to what data centres actually are. Data centres are essential infrastructure. While largely invisible to the end user, they underpin much of how modern society functions. The cloud is embedded across public services, private enterprise and everyday life, enabling everything from communication and financial transactions to public service delivery, business operations and the sharing of information. In that sense, data centres are not discretionary infrastructure; they are a fundamental component of a modern economy. Demand for cloud services and artificial intelligence infrastructure continues to grow. This is not unique to Ireland and reflects a global shift towards increasingly digital and data-driven economies. As individuals, businesses and public bodies rely more heavily on digital services, the need for computing capacity that supports those services continues to expand.
European policymakers have recognised this reality. The European Commission has been clear that Europe must prepare for significant growth in demand for data centre infrastructure.
Its response is not simply to acknowledge that demand but to plan for it, including a target to triple Europe's data centre capacity over the next five to seven years. The central issue is therefore not whether data centres will exist and continue to expand; they will. The central issue is whether Ireland develops the energy and infrastructure capacity necessary to accommodate that growth and secure the economic opportunities that come with it.
Technology Ireland and Cloud Infrastructure Ireland's view is that Ireland should seek to accommodate that growth. Demand for cloud and AI infrastructure will continue to increase and the infrastructure required to support it will be built. The question is whether that investment takes place in Ireland or elsewhere.
If it takes place elsewhere, Ireland forgoes the economic benefits associated with that investment, including employment, economic activity and wider investment across the economy. Ireland's economic success this century has been closely linked to the development of its technology and digital sectors. Maintaining that position will require remaining competitive for the next generation of investment, much of which will be driven by AI and increasingly data-intensive services. That in turn requires the cloud infrastructure necessary to support that activity.
Of course, this growth brings challenges. Data centres are energy-intensive facilities and place demands on the electricity system. Our members fully acknowledge that reality. However, those demands sit within a broader national challenge around energy supply, infrastructure delivery and long-term planning.
Ireland is making progress in expanding renewable energy generation. As that transition continues, the electricity system will require large and stable consumers that can support and absorb increasing levels of renewable generation. Data centres are one part of that wider energy ecosystem. If the response to current constraints is to discourage major electricity users, those users will not be available to support the additional renewable capacity that Ireland is seeking to bring onto the system in the years ahead. The focus should therefore be on planning and investing in the energy system to accommodate growth rather than treating demand itself as the problem.
Ireland has the opportunity to pursue a managed growth approach. That means supporting cloud infrastructure development in a manner that is aligned with national energy and climate objectives, ensuring that growth is linked to renewable energy deployment, strengthening grid infrastructure and planning the system in a co-ordinated way. It also means recognising the role this infrastructure plays in supporting employment, economic activity and investment across the wider economy.
This is not a choice between economic development and climate responsibility. The challenge is to deliver both together through clear policy, effective planning and sustained investment. The issues involved are complex but they are manageable if approached on the basis of evidence and a clear understanding of the relationship between demand, infrastructure and energy systems.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms Fitzpatrick. I now invite members to ask questions as per the speaking rota. They will have seven minutes for questions and answers and if we have time afterwards, we will have another round.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses. I will start with Mr. Christal. A significant number of new start-ups have AI as a central part of their business proposition. Will Mr. Christal talk about patterns within that? He spoke about the opportunities in advanced manufacturing, life sciences, agri-tech and internationally traded services and that there is may be a challenge or real risk in professional services. Is there a pattern within what he is seeing and is he hearing that from prospective clients?
Mr. Mark Christal:
I thank the Deputy. His question put a finger on it and was a key message we were trying to raise today. Looking at our start-ups, we support a range of about 200 start-ups every year. We take equity investments in about 100 of those and, as we saw, 50% of them last year had a strong AI component.
They are start-up companies that are at the start of a journey that will have an export focus and will aim to employ ten or more people. They are the companies that are starting that journey, but the wider AI client base where we have 232,000 people employed includes SMEs and large companies. A key point we are seeing, and where our focus is, is on that sectoral engagement to identify across all of those sectors where are the opportunities and that may experience more challenges. In areas such as SaaS, which is one of the areas identified, that has potential risk around AI and we are working very closely with those companies to identify what that risk is. They are hugely engaged companies themselves in working with their own client base and looking at the skills and challenges they need to address those areas.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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What are those companies saying?
Mr. Mark Christal:
There are three things coming to the fore. First, they are, and rightly so, heavily engaged with their customers, and many of them are global customers. They are very much looking to see what is the real impact it might have and what they need to do to evolve their services, what they are selling, or their product to ensure it is fit for purpose. Second, the skills agenda is hugely important and ensuring these companies have access to the right skills and talent. The third is the leadership within the companies. We see leadership being a huge part of this, ensuring management teams and leadership in the companies are equipped with the right skills.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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There is probably always a rapidly changing environment. How is Enteprise Ireland responding to the impact of AI and how central is AI to a lot of its client base?
Mr. Mark Christal:
Yes, very much so and I mentioned that in the opening statement. We need to ensure that as an organisation we are adapting to AI as well, looking at our own abilities to deliver our services to clients both in Ireland and overseas. We are involved in a very significant digital transformation programme as well, which is looking at how we will be able to use AI to deliver. We see AI as being absolutely central to our ability to deliver client service excellence to our companies in the years ahead.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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In terms of the type of risk frameworks Enterprise Ireland is looking at, we are paying particular attention to the issue of the environment but we have had previous discussions about fundamental rights and that type of thing. Does it have a sensitive appraisal mechanism for looking at this?
Ms Alexa Toomey:
I can come in on that. That is absolutely at the centre of our strategy about how we are deploying AI internally. We are very conscious that we are privileged to have very sensitive information from all of our clients. This is all commercially sensitive information that we hold so the cybersecurity piece is at the centre of our policies and how we are using AI. For example, at the moment we are using a completely closed loop system so anything we use AI tools for is only kept within our own servers, so it is very protected. As we go forward, a big part of what we are doing internally is a huge investment in training our colleagues - training ourselves - in how we can use AI in a very responsible way to help us to increase our productivity and improve the speed at which we can deliver to our clients. That is something we are always trying to get any gains on that we can. It is again about having that kind of safety at the front of our minds. That is something we are doing with all of our colleagues right across the organisation.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Ms Toomey. Data centres were the largest focus of Ms Fitzpatrick's opening statement. Is the challenge that the State has been successful at delivering data centres and not successful in delivering the energy supply they demand? That lends itself to the argument some people have made. Ms Fitzpatrick is talking about managed growth as well. One of the policy tools that can be used, for example, is the grid connection policy so that it would not be first come, first served and it would protect priority. Does Ms Fitzpatrick have a perspective on what a managed system looks like and whether a grid connection policy is-----
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
We can see with the large energy user policy from Government, especially around data centres, that increased clarity has been given. Data centres must bring their own renewable energy to the market and supply their own. As an industry we are happy to support that policy position. We recognise that we are an energy-intensive sector. We have to work with the policymakers and all the stakeholders to ensure that we can have as much investment in the grid as possible but that we as an industry are contributing to that. Bringing additional renewable energy to the grid is a way to do that.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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I want to come in on a couple of pieces. One is about Enterprise Ireland and the question of digital sovereignty, which is being looked at more. A better balance was mentioned but we are seeing a lot of agenda setting by the very large actors, many of which are major American tech companies. Digital sovereignty is not just about investing in indigenous pieces but about higher standards in terms of environment, privacy and the GDPR as factors that can drive digital sovereignty and give a competitive advantage to indigenous innovation. I would be interested in hearing about that.
I would challenge some of the narrative around data centres being essential infrastructure. Roads are essential infrastructure but not every road is. Not everything we build is essential. People can say there is an argument for things but we do not put them everywhere. Invisibility was mentioned. There is a huge lack of transparency about what our data centres are being used for. One of the things being talked about is the idea of greater transparency. Commercial sensitivities have been mentioned but I am wondering about that in terms of a public-interest test. We are in a situation where there is public interest. There is clear evidence of damage in some cases, including to the environment, water and energy, but the argument in response is that they are essential infrastructure. Are they all essential infrastructure or are only some of them? What bar or standard should be applied if they are to be considered essential infrastructure? Would the witnesses agree that we cannot simply categorise data centres per se as essential infrastructure? The case needs to be made in each individual instance as to how it is serving the public interest, because that is the test of essential infrastructure. It is not about whether companies want it but whether it serves the public interest on balance.
In terms of water, we are seeing really disjointed pieces whereby one single data centre is reporting that it is using more water than Uisce Éireann told us all the data centres were using. We have seen that anomaly. There are questions about the monitoring of water and emissions of these data centres. I would be interested in hearing from Enterprise Ireland about where that fits in. Now that we have had this dilution of the corporate sustainability reporting directive from the EU on due diligence, how can the public we represent be confident about emissions reporting and water usage reporting for data centres? Those are my key questions.
Ms Alexa Toomey:
I can start with the questions on digital sovereignty and how we are working with Irish companies. As the committee will be aware, Enterprise Ireland works with about 4,500 companies at all stages of growth and across all sectors. On digital sovereignty, we are working with a pretty significant number of companies in the tech sectors that are developing digital solutions and digital tools from Ireland. It is a major part of our strategy to keep those companies here and to make sure they grow and scale from Ireland. That is how we are contributing to the creation of Ireland's digital sovereignty. We are making sure that we are helping companies that are developing their own solutions.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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I have a single supplementary question, if I may.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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A lot of questions have been asked, Senator. Very quickly.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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It is a one-liner about vulnerabilities. Enterprise Ireland is encouraging business. If there is a shift in the policies or regulatory climate, has the organisation been looking at the legal risks in terms of the danger of reasonable expectations or legal exposure for businesses that have been encouraged to invest in a certain climate?
Ms Alexa Toomey:
Regarding the shifting regulation, as an enterprise development agency, we follow what is happening and support our companies to respond to it. The Senator mentioned the corporate sustainability reporting directive, CSRD, for example. We have done a lot of work with our clients to help them to prepare for this. CSRD did not launch as we expected but the work we did in that space with companies was still worthwhile. We got them to build their own capability, understanding and awareness of how they were operating across a number of measures. The same applies to anything. We will work with our clients to make sure that they are putting in place any cybersecurity measures they can and that they are prepared for the EU AI Act, which is a reality for all of them now. Even if things change, the work they do and what they learn about themselves and how they operate as a business can only help them. We will continue to support our companies to prepare for any regulatory change as we become aware of it. The big thing for us is trying to grow that indigenous pool of companies in this space. It is about helping Ireland to grow its own capability base across different technologies as they develop and grow. About half of the start-ups we supported last year were in this AI and digital space. We do have a growing base of Irish companies retaining that. That is very much in line with the spirit of the EU AI Act and what we are all trying to do.
Mr. Mark Christal:
On the Senator's second question about sustainability and our commitment to it, this is a huge, continuing focus of Enterprise Ireland. We have a target to achieve a 35% reduction in carbon from our client base. The big sectors we are focused on are construction cement, food and manufacturing. Those are the key sectors in our client base. We have made a lot of progress in this regard. In my opening statement, I referenced the extent of our approvals. However, it is not just the big emitters. We are also focused, with a wider sustainability and climate lens, on helping all of our companies to develop action plans and strategies for climate. We are looking at circular economy opportunities, and the areas of water and biodiversity come into play as well. Those are a huge, key part of our focus.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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Ms Fitzpatrick has not answered.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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You had seven minutes for questions and answers, so if you had given more time for answers, we could have got answers. There will be a second round. Senator Garret Scahill is next.
Gareth Scahill (Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses for their opening statements. I would not expect anything less from Enterprise Ireland and IBEC than for them to see the opportunities. In his conclusions, Mr. Christal summed it up quite well by saying it was an opportunity to "strengthen competitiveness, accelerate innovation and open new routes to global markets." It is good to have that positivity coming in here, because we have not had a lot of it in the last couple of weeks.
Are we moving fast enough? Is policy moving quickly enough at the moment or are we in danger of talking more than acting?
Mr. Mark Christal:
I will start and Ms Toomey may add to this. This is moving at a very fast pace, there is no question about that. That is why we are keen to ensure that right across Enterprise Ireland, with our teams here and our colleagues overseas, we are extensively engaged on a sectoral level with our clients, because that is what is needed. I do not think there is a one-size-fits-all approach here.
In terms of the speed with which this will impact, there is no question that we will need to look at the skills agenda. That is critical. Ensuring that all of our clients have access to innovation supports, which is a hugely important part of this, is significant. We also need to help companies to understand what the opportunities and challenges are from an AI perspective. In that context, the offers we have and how we evolve and deliver them to our clients are important.
Within Enterprise Ireland, we are very focused on the pace of delivery because we believe it is critical. This is something in respect of which we have to be hands-on with our clients in providing supports, making them accessible and making sure companies get supports that help them to understand whether AI is a threat or an opportunity in their sector.
Ms Alexa Toomey:
To add to that, I have never seen a pace of change like this before. Compared with where we thought we were six months ago, we are in a very different place today. Our client base is incredibly responsive to AI. These are people who have founded and are running businesses up and down the country, and they are very attuned to anything that is going to help them make their businesses more successful.
There is an eagerness to engage and adopt but, for a lot of companies, the challenge is actually how to get started and how to begin to deploy AI. We are working with all of our clients in this regard. We are doing a huge amount of outreach with our clients on a sectoral basis and more generally. We are working with the European digital innovation hubs, EDIHs, and with partners across government to try to make sure that, wherever companies turn, there is a door that will open for them and help them get going on the journey.
Gareth Scahill (Fine Gael)
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To help us to produce a report at the end of this, is there one barrier that the witnesses can put their finger on? Are our schools, apprenticeship programmes and universities doing enough with regard to skills? Is it regulation that we need to look after? Is it access to finance?
Balanced regional development was spoken about extensively. I come from Roscommon. We are limited there by the capacity in our grid right now, but the witnesses have given the impression that a business based somewhere in rural Ireland, such as Roscommon, could compete globally without having to move to Dublin. Can they identify, for our report, the barrier they would like to see addressed as a matter of priority?
Mr. Mark Christal:
We have excellent companies from Roscommon that are competing globally.
On the skills side, there are a number of elements. From my point of view, it is critical that when we consider skills and their development in the long term, we consider the needs of enterprise alongside them. They have to be aligned. That is hugely important and something we need to get right.
We need to think about what lifelong learning is going to mean for people because the skills are going to evolve quickly. We need to make sure we are focused on that. We need to think about the pathways we have for younger people coming out of schools and how we use apprenticeships. Those areas are really important. We also need to consider how we help people who are already in companies to transition. Those who have been working with many of our clients for a long time are asking what kind of retraining they need to put in place. The employers want to keep the staff employed but to have them retrained and to ensure they have the skills to utilise AI to drive growth extensively.
A huge body of work in this regard needs to be done. As Ms Toomey said, Enterprise Ireland has a huge role to play, but it is also about working right across the system to ensure that happens.
Mr. Erik O'Donovan:
Progress is being made but transition is not going to be a passive process. To echo some of the comments made today, this is about positioning our infrastructure and our workforce to capture these new markets. We are well positioned. We do have a strong digital ecosystem and strategy but we cannot be complacent about this. There are divides in AI adoption. In this regard, regions were mentioned, but there is also a divide between big and small companies. There is a competition-related imperative to address lifelong learning rates. We are 20 percentage points behind most of the digital front-runners. We are at the EU average, but we are actually 35% behind Sweden, which is the leader.
We come today with a solution to this, namely directing some of the National Training Fund towards digital and AI skills. That is what I would offer to this meeting.
Gareth Scahill (Fine Gael)
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I might come back to Mr. O’Donovan on that when we sum up. Before that, I have a question for Ms Fitzpatrick. In relation to data centres, can she identify specific cases where we have lost out on investment because of grid capacity or planning constraints? Does she have a rough idea of the value of those investments and where they went?
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
I can think of a number of cases. Obviously, some of those companies are already here. Again, what many of the hyperscale data centre operators here are trying to do is ensure they can have sustained growth.
There have been clear cases where companies that were seeking to establish and build here moved to other parts of Europe or beyond. I refer in particular to the Nordic countries and some parts of southern Europe. There are other member states that are actively seeking the infrastructure. They recognise it is essential, so they are lobbying the companies to try to get the investment. They recognise it is hugely valuable to their economies.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses for the work they do generally.
I agree with Ms Fitzpatrick that there is a misunderstanding around digital and cloud infrastructure and, indeed, the need for data centres. I want to come to Mr. Christal's point first because Enterprise Ireland is responsible for our export industry. He talked about the number of AI-enabled companies that are now engaged. I am very conscious of high-tech construction and the number of Irish companies that are engaged internationally in this space. I specifically think of LMH Engineering, which is based in Arklow, headed up by James Kelly, who was EY Entrepreneur of the Year, and has grown significantly. I am referring to what it has been able to build internationally.
My understanding is that data-centre-related construction, in terms of Irish companies that are engaged in it, is worth about €2.1 billion to Ireland in terms of exports, with 180 companies employing 35,000 people. Am I roughly correct in those figures?
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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This is really misunderstood and it is not a story that is told. When you look at figures of the kind in question, you see that the contribution Irish companies are making in terms of data centre construction, but also in terms of digital infrastructure in Europe and internationally, including in Asia, is considerable and is providing employment back here. What are the 180 client firms of Enterprise Ireland saying about it being easier to do business internationally than in Ireland?
Mr. Mark Christal:
High-tech construction is a good example. I would talk about the climate-tech portfolio in the same vein. Many of our clients, whether they are involved in data centres, offshore wind energy or other sources of renewable energy, are becoming very integrated into the supply chain for the global leaders in these sectors. Very effectively, they have won contracts in global markets to develop their capability. We very much supported that in terms of connections, interactions and supports for their innovation and growth agendas.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Why are all those incredibly successful exporting companies not doing more business in Ireland?
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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What are the barriers? Why are we not seeing it? Developing critical infrastructure here is important. These are highly capable companies that can do it internationally. Why is it not happening here?
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate that Enterprise Ireland, as a Government agency, might be restricted in this regard, but could Ms Fitzpatrick pick up on the point about what comes first for the companies?
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
It is a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. What comes first: the infrastructure or the user of the infrastructure? At the moment, we are at a point where we need to support the user of the grid infrastructure but, at the same time, grow that infrastructure. The example to give is that if a data centre were approved today, it would not draw down a connection until 2032. Therefore, there is a period of time. There is now an opportunity for industry to work with policymakers, grid operators, investors, climate-tech companies and offshore wind developers.
If the offshore wind developers know that there is a guaranteed large energy user customer base here, it makes it a really attractive place to invest in and that is really what is required. By having the large energy user base here, knowing they are going to be here long term enables the investment in the offshore wind and renewables. It is cyclical thing and if one element is taken out, the whole thing unfortunately does not work as well. That is why we are working closely with Government, the grid operators and all stakeholders from an industry perspective to try to make this work. We understand there are constraints and understand as an energy intensive sector we have to work closely. There is a huge amount of innovation happening within data centres themselves. The actual technology within data centres is becoming more and more efficient. That is really important in meeting our requirements from a net-zero perspective.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I entirely agree with Ms Fitzpatrick. We cannot divorce the building of our digital infrastructure from the need to invest in renewable energies. Part of that message has to get out there. It is almost a pity that we have so many excellent Irish companies helping to build the digital infrastructure internationally and we could also be using them to a far greater extent domestically.
Ms Alexa Toomey:
We are very focused on the export growth and that export agenda is at the core of what we do. However, we have companies in the high-tech construction sector that are working on these large infrastructure projects domestically as well. We often see, whether at home or overseas, that they establish very strong working relationships with these companies and follow them around the globe so as their customers expand into different geographies, they have that strong relationship built up and they-----
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Where is Ms Toomey seeing the big growth markets for Irish high-tech construction companies at the moment?
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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The Nordic countries have a very strong environmental records yet they are investing very heavily in digital infrastructure while we are not. Is that a fair comment? Ms Toomey may not be able to answer.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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This is an important discussion we need to have. We are seeing other European countries who take the environment seriously and take the investment in renewable energy as seriously as we do at the same time making a very clear commitment to digital infrastructure. May I make one very quick-----
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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No, sorry. I was strict on everybody else. Thank you, Deputy Byrne. Deputy Gibney is next.
Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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Go raibh maith agat, a Chathaoirligh,agus comhghairdeas on your appointment as Chair. I thank the witnesses for being here today. I want to pick up on some of the exchange the witnesses had with Senator Higgins specifically relating to the comments in the opening statement on essential infrastructure. This is something I have raised a number of times and we have discussed it in previous sessions. I have talked about it when talking about AI hype, which is something we have to deal with as there is a big amount of hype at the moment.
I appreciate data centres serve essential purposes but it is also quite clear they have some functions that cannot be described as essential services. Do the witnesses agree that is the case? For example, a data centre that hosts hospital records or data relating to hospital records could be described as essential but the same data centre that provides for fake videos of cats and people is not essential. Is that correct? This is important to acknowledge when we know, for example, that the Israeli Defense Forces have used Irish data centres to use phone call surveillance data of Palestinians. It is also convenient for those who are not providing essential or even good services that contribute to the social good or common good, such as the creators of online slop and nudification apps, to get the benefit from this protection of essential infrastructure to facilitate their profit-making. Do the witnesses agree that is the case? How do we distinguish between the essential and non-essential when it comes to what data centres are being used for?
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
I thank the Deputy for her question. I will try to take it in a couple of parts. I reiterate, data centres are a foundational utility of the modern economy and they cannot be really reduced to a single commercial function. The analogy that has been used before is the printing press. When it was first invented, people were printing very important books but they were also printing stuff that was not considered very important, yet the importance of the printing press was still there. It is a similar case here.
The infrastructure driving commercial innovation within data centres is identical in terms of the infrastructure delivering critical public and social value. Really, the exact same cloud platforms are hosting essential digital public services like gov.ieand managing agricultural certifications, as well as allowing commercial AI activity to happen.
Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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Is there any way to deal with this? Does Ms Fitzpatrick agree it gives a shield for profiteers who are not contributing to the social good?
Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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That is not going to touch the essential infrastructure ranking or categorisation that we impose on data centres.
Mr. Erik O'Donovan:
Perhaps I can give some numbers around the criticality of this. The EU and its members states, including Ireland, have put a target of 75% AI adoption by the year 2030 for us. We have already discussed how the European Commission wants to triple data centre capacity within the next five to seven years. The ESRI has said this can enhance aggregate and firm-level productivity.
Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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I appreciate those numbers but the witnesses are moving away from what I am trying to get at. Even those numbers are based on the fact we do accept them as essential infrastructure. My issue is that they are clearly not all dealing with essential infrastructure. The output of these data centres cannot be described as essential infrastructure when some of it is actually harmful to society and some of it is not serving any social good. How do we deal with that? How do we actually tackle it?
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
From a policy perspective, guardrails could be put in place, but from an industry perspective it is ultimately the user who is developing content for storage in data centres. One analogy is a car. If a car is used for driving to and from work, that may be identified as an essential trip but if a car is used for another purpose, is it then essential?
Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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I appreciate the analogies, although I would probably prefer the road analogy that Senator Higgins used. Nonetheless, I do not think any of these analogies really deal with it. This is a categorisation of a utility or data centres or whatever we want to call them. The point is that they are using vast amounts of resources to actually put this material out and it is somewhat veiled. It is very veiled because there is such a variety of activity within it and I do not see how any of this is going to cut through this and deal with that.
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
Part of the activity that data centres are critical to is the twin transition. We need digital infrastructure to ensure we can transition the rest of our economy to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels. I understand the point Deputy Gibney is making. It is an essential part of the twin transition that we can enable the digitalisation of the other key sectors like transport, heating and industry. That is where data centres and AI will play a crucial role in the twin transition.
Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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I do not deny any of that but, going back to the analogy, the printing press came with regulations around it such that people could not do certain things and we have standards in the legacy press that just do not exist in the online world, nor would we give cars to dangerous drivers. Do the witnesses see what I mean? The regulation needs to get in at this level where it actually ascertains the value of the work that is being done, which is pulling in so many of our essential resources as a globe.
Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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Does that identify the types of activity that happen within it?
Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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Is that reporting around what the data centre is doing and what it is producing?
Sinéad Gibney (Dublin Rathdown, Social Democrats)
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But not the difference in the activity. It is not going to identify whether it is being used for military purposes, for example, and therefore should not be described as essential infrastructure.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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I thank the witnesses for coming before us.
Starting with Enterprise Ireland, was AI used in the writing of Mr. Christal's opening statement?
Mr. Mark Christal:
My adviser might verify that, but no, not as far as I know. I think it was written by ourselves, using our own templates in preparation for the meeting. Just to be clear, though, we encourage the use of AI right across the organisation to enable us to deliver better services to our clients.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Turnitin AI detector says that its conclusion was a 91.2% detection of AI.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Does Mr. Christal think it is important that we have transparency over things like this? I am not saying that there is inherently anything wrong with Mr. Christal using AI to write the statement, but does he not think that, if he is coming to make a statement before a committee, he should be up front about it? I had this thought because someone who came before us last week said that, to be clear, they had not used AI in the writing of their document. Does Mr. Christal not think that, at a minimum, Enterprise Ireland should have this process internally as well as when it appears before an Oireachtas committee?
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Turnitin uses AI itself.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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So what? I asked a question on whether it was written and he said "No". I presented the evidence to say he did, and then we found out that AI was used for it. That is what just happened here a few minutes ago.
Ms Alexa Toomey:
Coming in on that, we use AI - I certainly use AI - on a daily basis to support and summarise documents, checking for flow, grammar and things like that. We very much encourage that internally, and we encourage our clients to use an efficiency tool to be as efficient as we can. There is a difference between that and asking AI to replace the human. The human is at the centre of everything we are doing and seeing across the board. AI is a tool that is used in the same way we have been using spell-check, or at least I have been using spell-check throughout my career.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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What is the difference between AI and spell-check as tools in the context of what we are here to discuss?
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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We are here to discuss a particular topic, and that is the impact on the environment.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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What is the difference?
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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I trust the witnesses' ability to write an opening statement to an AI committee. I do not think they need to use AI.
It does not surprise me that Enterprise Ireland encourages the use of AI throughout the organisation, but has it done any analysis on the environmental impact of the extra energy usage flowing from Enterprise Ireland as a consequence of everyone, presumably from top to bottom, being told they need to get on board this train and use AI? How much extra energy is Enterprise Ireland using as a result?
Mr. Mark Christal:
I do not have those numbers. To be clear for the record, I said I did not put the statement through AI in response to the question that Deputy Murphy asked me directly.
I do not have the numbers on the energy cost associated with our use of technology or AI. We track our sustainability footprint as an organisation and it is something we look at on an ongoing basis, not just in Dublin, but in our regional footprint as well.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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I want to turn to IBEC. I will ask the same question of its representatives. Was AI used in the creation of their statement?
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Has there been any environmental impact study done by IBEC on that?
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Ms Fitzpatrick and Mr. O'Donovan mentioned the European Commission being clear about the target to triple Europe's data centre capacity over the next five to seven years. Obviously, Ireland is an outlier within the European Union with regard to the amount of data centres we have and the amount of energy going to those centres, at 22% plus and on a very steep upward trajectory. Does Ms Fitzpatrick believe that Ireland should triple our data centre capacity over the next five to seven years or is it different for Ireland because we are already ahead?
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
I believe it will be different for Ireland because we are already ahead. From our perspective, we are working closely with the Government, grid management and all other stakeholders on the managed growth model that I mentioned. We are very clear that Ireland is leading from a European perspective, so we probably do not have as far to go as others. It still means that we support growth, but we do it in a very managed way that can be sustained with the hyper-scale data centre operators bringing the renewable energy to the market that they require.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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It was mentioned that if the data centre growth took place elsewhere, Ireland would forgo the economic benefits. Will Ms Fitzpatrick tell me how many people are directly employed in data centres? The lobbyist organisation said it was 1,800 people. Does she believe that is accurate or does she have a different figure?
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
It is probably more than that, but I do not have exact numbers. There are over 70 data centres in total in Ireland, and more than half of those are hyper-scale data centres. As regards numbers directly employed, we are not going to sit here and claim that they are huge, but the overall digital economy is huge and that is what they support. That is the part we have to really make sure----
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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But the whole point of data centres is that they can be anywhere, is it not?
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has had seven minutes, so we will move on.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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Data centres do not have to be here to get the benefit of the digital economy.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has had his time. We are moving on to Deputy Mythen.
Johnny Mythen (Wexford, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses for coming in this morning. Before I start, I commend Enterprise Ireland because I know the chief executive in the Enniscorthy Enterprise and Technology Centre, Mr. John O'Connor, who is also in control of the Hatch Lab in Gorey and is a brilliant guy.
I wish to ask both organisations about the workforce composition. It has been estimated that, in quarters 1 of 2025 and 2026, there were job losses of over 20,300 and 30,000 jobs, respectively, in the sector due to the use of AI. The ESRI has produced a report with the Department of Finance saying about 7% of the current workforce is under pressure.
What upskilling initiatives are available, and do the witnesses have an AI transition policy developed for workers?
Johnny Mythen (Wexford, Sinn Fein)
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Sorry, but has no research been done on that?
Mr. Mark Christal:
Outside national research has been done, and the Deputy cited it, but within Enterprise Ireland specifically and with the client companies we work with, we are working on a sectoral basis to see what sectors will experience growth. We will see growth in certain sectors, some of which we have already mentioned. We will see other sectors where we will end up sustaining the number of jobs employed, and we would like to see higher value-added jobs in that regard. However, we will see some sectors where there will be losses, and I have mentioned some of those that are exposed in that regard.
We do an annual employment survey of our clients. We track employment across companies on an annual basis, as well as the ongoing engagement we have at sectoral level.
It is something we are very actively tracking and engaging on.
Ms Alexa Toomey:
I will add to that. There has been a huge amount of research done, as the committee is well aware. There have been ESRI, Central Bank and Department of Finance reports, and the industry has been doing a lot of reports as well. It is a question we have spent quite a lot of time thinking about in Enterprise Ireland as we strengthen our response to AI. It is one where we do not have a specific number right now because with the range of numbers the research is showing us, it is very hard to get specific on that but what we are doing is, as we have always done in Enterprise Ireland, working with our clients to really try and help them go up the value chain. There is a big opportunity here. Some tasks are going to be automated as a result of AI but we will work really closely with our clients to see how they can train and reskill within their businesses to make sure that they get to retain their people and have them working on higher value activity, which can increase the size of the pie for everybody. That has always been how Enterprise Ireland has worked, and with AI it is no different. We will continue to work on reskilling, upskilling and moving up the value chain wherever we can.
Johnny Mythen (Wexford, Sinn Fein)
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Was any research done on the number of data centres being built or that will be built possibly in future? There are 107 operational data centres in Ireland already. We have ten times the European average. As the witnesses know, 22% of all metered electricity is used by data centres. We have to balance that as a country. We have to balance each thing. There are 43 centres in planning and nine in development. That is 149 altogether. Some of these centres use up to 1 million litres of water a day while others use up to 5 million litres of water a day. That is apart from electricity. We have to make sure we have a balance for our country and our people. Do the witnesses have anything to say on that?
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
In terms of further data centre development, as mentioned, the Government policy around large energy users bringing their own renewable electricity to secure any connection is going to be key. Any of those centres that are going to develop will have to have the requisition investment in the renewable to be fully-----
Johnny Mythen (Wexford, Sinn Fein)
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There is also a problem with that because we spoke about digital sovereignty, but there is energy sovereignty as well. We will have a situation where these companies are actually in control of the energy in our country. They will be selling energy back to us during blackouts and so on. There is a danger we will lose that sovereignty.
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
The State itself will, at the same time, be investing in its own grid and offshore renewables. It is a requirement for each data centre to have its own renewable energy source. That is a stand-alone thing. At the same time, Government will build out the national grid and have its own sovereign electricity system. I foresee that being dealt with.
From a water perspective, because I know that has been brought up previously, we need to look at what companies are actually doing to address any of those concerns. Many new systems are really reducing the amount of water required with closed loop systems that can reuse the water through chilling and cooling. There is also large water storage going into any new data centre sites, which will harvest rainwater and grey water. There is a lot of innovation happening regarding water consumption. It is really reducing. They are trying to be as environmentally conscious as possible. The hyper-scale data centre operations have very strong water targets and they are working very closely with Government and all stakeholders to ensure they meet them.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Ms Fitzpatrick can speak very briefly.
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
As Technology Ireland, we are the promoting organisation for two very large skill nets: Technology Ireland ICT skill net and the Technology Ireland digital skill net.
Within those, we offer a lot of AI courses, from a certificate in AI right up to PhDs in AI, and everything in between. We are really oversubscribed. We have huge interest from industry. These are industry-designed courses. They are really agile and up to date. To that point, we are oversubscribed. We could have our entire AI budget for training spent within the first six months of the year. There is frustration on the industry side that it has worked closely with ourselves and Skillnet in terms of designing these programmes and we are just totally oversubscribed.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms Fitzpatrick. It falls to me now to ask some questions and we will then go to any members who are interested for a second round.
First, to Enterprise Ireland, it is a stark fact that 99 of 198 start-ups last year had some component of AI as part of their main product or service. Has there been an analysis done on how those businesses have been established? We have seen with the likes of Claude that it is a lot easier to set up a business. A person can watch a video on TikTok on how to set up a drop-shipping business or whatever the case may be. Has there been an analysis done on how these businesses have been established and that they are not essentially just white labels?
Ms Alexa Toomey:
As a broader point, while we are always trying to make things easier and reduce red tape for our clients, when we are investing in start-ups we do a significant amount of due diligence on the team, business model and kind of market they are trying to address. On a case-by-case basis we do a significant amount of analysis to make sure the company is not just, for want of a better term, a “me too” company that is popping a label on something else. We are always looking at the level of innovation. Our high potential start-up, HPSU, brand is well-known, but the actual full name is our innovative high potential start-up brand. We are really looking at companies that are bringing a level of innovation to the start-ups they are investing in. We need to make sure we are investing in sustainable start-ups which are going to be here for the long-term and have the ability to scale and grow from Ireland. On a case-by-case basis, we look at each one to make sure they are long-term business models.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Are local enterprise offices, LEOs being equipped with information on how to spot what is what is legit and what is something that took about 20 minutes?
Mr. Mark Christal:
They are. As Ms Toomey said, there is a huge amount of due diligence done in terms of the high-potential start-ups we support. We are typically co-investors in these companies. We look at companies that come from serial entrepreneurs and those which are spun out from enterprises. We look at the market that the companies are going to challenge to target the potential customers. Another area we focus on is spin-outs from third level. That is part of our portfolio too. We are always trying to identify the difference between a start-up company and those which have high potential to grow and scale. They are the ones we focus on, as we referenced in our opening statement.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Do the witnesses have a breakdown of those 98 AI start-ups to show which are SAS, climate tech or agri-tech, etc.?
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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It would be interesting to see the breakdown of what those businesses are and what they are doing. It is a more general point.
The premise of today's meeting is particularly around the environment and we should focus on that element. When we look at start-ups in particular and the fact that there is a prevalence of AI first companies, is there any type of environmental impact assessment for those companies when they go through the process with EI?
Ms Alexa Toomey:
Yes, absolutely. As the start-ups we work with are early-stage companies that often have not fully started yet, we are not gathering large swathes of data but we ask them how they are incorporating sustainability into their business and how they are starting out with that mindset. That is really important. As well as the value we put on it, it is a really good discipline for them to have because these are companies which, as Mr. Christal said, are seeking external investment. Increasingly, the external investment environment is looking at those kinds of measures and metrics, so it is important for start-ups to have that sense of a sustainability road map and how they are going to build that into their business as they grow.
Mr. Mark Christal:
It is an evaluation that we apply not just across the start-ups, because they are only one cohort of companies we work with on an annual basis. If you look at our SMEs and our large companies, we are all the time looking at the sustainability impact they have and, as they adopt AI, what that will mean in that regard. It is not just from the perspective of the sustainable impact of that business but also from a market perspective. It is hugely important.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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It would be useful in the future, if Enterprise Ireland is not doing this already, to look at a start-up that is using a certain amount of credits - we will use Claude as an example - the environmental impact of that and what its environmental impact would be at its growth trajectory. That type of action would be beneficial to understand the impact that these start-ups and then scale-ups actually have.
I am conscious of time, so I will move on to IBEC. Ms Fitzpatrick mentioned that for investors, investing in offshore wind is attractive when there are large energy users available. Why is that the case when there is obviously a clear demand for additional energy in the country? Why would there be a need for a large energy user such as a data centre in order to attract a VC?
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
A data centre can act as a big battery, essentially, for offshore wind. In times of volatility, depending on if the wind is blowing or the sun is shining, that is where data centres can absorb extra and use high-utility batteries for storage. That can be really positive from the offshore wind perspective because it means you are not dumping energy. There is a customer basis there and the chances are that you are locked in to a long contract with them, which provides business certainty. A lot of the time, in terms of any of the-----
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Just very briefly, why could VCs not look at battery storage as a component, rather than a data centre, in that instance?
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
The data centres have the capacity to utilise. The incentive for them is that they have the energy there. For the VC or the funder, it is probably more focused on actually building the offshore wind. They just want to supply the customer. They do not really want to think about storing it and then supplying the customer. It is just a more efficient way for them to operate.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms Fitzpatrick.
Keira Keogh (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I want to come back to the comment on the National Training Fund and skills overall. It was mentioned that we need to give more focus in the National Training Fund to AI and also that Skillnet Ireland sits under that fund and is massively oversubscribed. I saw an answer to a parliamentary question stating that it is not possible to give a specific breakdown of AI training under the National Training Fund and that it is embedded across a range of organisations, be that Skillnet Ireland or SOLAS. How do the witnesses see that need being fulfilled? Do we need to go further in looking at the skills if we are going to have a shortage? Do we need to start looking at our secondary school curriculum and embed in AI-specific courses, or just update the digital or tech courses that are there?
Mr. Erik O'Donovan:
I will start on this and then let Ms. Fitzpatrick come in. We started the conversation by discussing foundational capacities to enable our country and our people to respond to technological change. There is data in lifelong learning rates from SOLAS in April 2026 that would point to the fact that we need to catch up on other digital front-runners. As to our idea of how this could be used, IBEC has proposed in the past the use of a employer voucher. The idea is that it would stimulate both demand and supply. That is the thinking behind it. To answer the Deputy's question, a voucher could be used in solving that.
We do have divides in adoption rates.
We carried out surveys at the start of the year which show that there is a bit of divide between larger organisations and SMEs, and presumably start-ups as well, in terms of the adoption of AI adoption, obviously, but also in AI skill levels. Larger organisations can put more resources to this. It is an issue of trying to help the SMEs. That would also be a focus. Skillnet is there as well. Two other areas that could be used are sectoral playbooks and the use of the sandboxes. The proposed regulatory sandboxes will help to train the regulators and get businesses AI Act ready.
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
I thank Deputy Keogh for the question. To echo what Mr. O'Donovan said, I was at an AI skills round table last week hosted by the Minister, Deputy Lawless, and the Minister of State, Deputy Smyth. What I found particularly interesting was that Government is planning for this and very much recognises the need for swift action. There is a message around the need to move and update on AI every 12 to 24 weeks, because it is such a fast-evolving technology. However, the principles of AI will still be important. It is really about how we integrate those.
To the Deputy's point on the secondary school aspect, we absolutely need to build it into curriculums early; even more so in terms of its use, such as how to trust it, how to check it and how to use it properly. A proposal was made that for every graduate at third level or in further and higher education, AI and an AI certificate of some description be incorporated into every course going forward. That would be really important in future-proofing for skills.
Keira Keogh (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It might be very difficult to do that in secondary schools, particularly in the context of the need to be updating every 12 to 24 weeks, in view of the time it takes to develop a curriculum and then train the teachers in how to operate it.
There was mention of the Nordic countries, especially Sweden, being ahead of us and that they have invested in the data centres and are actively attracting companies. Are we aware of any companies that are leaving Ireland and moving to the Nordic countries, or is just that they are not setting up here as quickly as they were and are, potentially, choosing those countries ahead of Ireland, which would be dangerous in light of the fact that we had a fantastic reputation as being the tech capital of Europe?
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
I will not name any specific companies, but it is just investment. It is investment that is for the European market. Ireland would be a location that companies would look at and that has moved on in some instances over the past couple of years. With the new large energy user action plan, we are hopeful that by working closely together we can accommodate further growth. However, that still remains to be seen. Trying to get the message out there that if we can work together and if industry is willing and wants to bring its own renewable energy to the table, we can support further investment here and Ireland Inc. will not need to lose out.
Keira Keogh (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Go raibh maith agaibh.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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There are a lot of concerns about AI in education, but we are focusing on the environment here. I would the witnesses to answer a question I have asked previously. Do they agree that not all data centres or, indeed, all the functions that take place within data centres can be classed as critical infrastructure? Will they comment on the aspect relating to water? We have seen reports in the Dublin InQuirer to the effect that Uisce Éireann stated that in 2021, data centres were using 810 megalitres of water but that Meta reported that just one of its data centres used 928 megalitres in that year. There is a disconnect between what industry is saying about water usage and the figures that have been made public. Has that been looked at?
On the environment side, there is the issue of water warming. I just came from the climate committee, where we are looking at the impact of water warming and industrial discharge. Will Enterprise Ireland comment on the specific question about legal risk and, now that we are looking at potentially having investor-state dispute settlement mechanisms, whether a risk assessment has been carried out? CETA and other agreements state that if investment is encouraged, it can be considered as creating reasonable expectations and that a change in such circumstances could be considered as unfair. In that context, have the witnesses looked at the legal risk and whether we need to strengthen regulation in this area? For example, the 80% to 20% switch was to become a 100% renewable requirement. There is a gap on AI regulation relating to dual-use goods and military technologies. Is Enterprise Ireland supporting start-ups in those areas? There is a bit of a regulatory gap.
Ms Alexa Toomey:
As far as I am aware, we have not carried out that risk assessment, but we will certainly take that away and look into it more.
On the military and dual-use side, we have clients in the dual-use space that are primarily focused on civilian uses. Through legislation, we are not in a position to work with companies that are primarily targeting a military space without seeking permission from Government. As we speak, we are not working with the companies in that space.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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In the dual-use space, there are-----
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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I know it has both, but is there a guarantee of non-military application by companies?
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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That have the potential for military use. It is very specific.
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
We rely on the numbers from Irish Water. It is estimated that about 2.2% or 2.3% of total demand from data centres is what is supplied on a yearly basis. However, industry is aggressively reducing its freshwater reliance through water-conscious engineering. Operators are investing heavily in on-site water storage in order to minimise daily water demands at peak hours of community stress. The major operators which we would represent have legally committed to water-positive targets by 2030. This means replenishing more water back into local environments through targeted regional projects, rainwater harvesting and grey-water capture than the facilities extract. It is something that we are really conscious of. It is not a huge figure in Irish Water's annual statistics in the context of the amount of water produced, but we want to drive it down as far as possible, to use closed-loop systems, and reuse the water as much as possible. It is obviously a very important natural resource that we have in Ireland. It is hugely precious and we want to make sure that, when we can, we are using the minimum amount possible.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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The other question is about critical infrastructure. Are the witnesses open to the idea of transparency of use being part of the application process?
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
It is definitely going through at European level at the moment. From an industry perspective, our members do not shy away from transparency. We would champion having as much transparency as possible, and those measures going through at an EU level. We maintain that data centres are a foundational utility of the modern economy, recognising that there are things that drive commercial innovation, but it is the same infrastructure that then drives critical public and social value. Unfortunately, there is an element here of the technology existing and how it is used, so we have to sustain the technology. It is a prerequisite for decarbonising the economy.
It is not really a luxury any more. It is a utility that people require for operating in the modern economy.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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There are multiple-----
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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We are short on time. I call Deputy Byrne.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I notice that Senator Higgins says that we do not need every road, but if you are living on that road, you need that road.
To follow on from Deputy Murphy's question about how many people are employed by data centres, it is a critical utility. For instance, we do not employ many people in our wastewater treatment plants, but, boy, if they go wrong and we do not have them, there is a significant impact. The useful question to ask might be roughly how many people are employed in the tech sector or rely directly on it in Ireland. I appreciate that is a broad question.
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
We have a new report coming out in two weeks' time that we conducted with Frontier Economics. I will maybe give a sneak peek. We have looked at this closely. The tech sector is really hard to narrow down. We have analysed the digitally intensive sector. That is where you look at all the sectors where over 85% of the input is digital. That will include things like insurance, financial services and so on. It might be broader than just pure tech. The numbers there are in excess of 195,000.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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There are more than 195,000 people in what Ms Fitzpatrick would call the intensive sector.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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There is literally everything else that we are engaged in. Will Mr. Christal come back to me about Enterprise Ireland-supported companies?
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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It would be useful. In our consideration and certainly in our report, part of what we have to do is start to define exactly what a data centre is. This relates to environmental issues. I often think that many of our opportunities here in Ireland are more in narrow AI or small language models. I am always impressed by the AI for Meteorological Services, Innovation and Research Centre, AIMSIR, which is the UCD and Met Éireann project. I might give examples, but can the witnesses give examples of green tech companies or companies that are using AI in a way that contributes towards climate? I want to give a call-out to Mr. Ed Murphy at GreenTech in Enniscorthy, which is doing incredible work to support many companies with using green technology. Are there examples of useful case studies that the witnesses can share with the committee?
Ms Alexa Toomey:
We have a pretty robust climate tech sector that has grown significantly over the past few years. Year on year, it is always in the top one or two sectors in terms of jobs and exports growth. GridBeyond is one company that comes to mind where there was a recent announcement. It is involved in grid management technology.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Will Ms Toomey explain for the benefit of the committee? I am aware of some of them.
Ms Alexa Toomey:
I hope I do not do an injustice to the fantastic work that GridBeyond does. It supports large energy users and data centres to manage the level of usage during those peaks and troughs of energy production. It is trying to match energy usage with times of abundant energy. We also have companies in the climate tech sector that are working on water solutions. Water has been mentioned today. They are looking at how we could help-----
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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For the benefit of this committee, I ask that the witnesses send a brief description of a number of those companies.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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What can we do as a State to support some of those companies?
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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The Government will take recommendations from this committee, if there are policy recommendations. While I get the one about the National Training Fund, which is a well-made point, I am specifically thinking about scaling up companies in the green tech sector.
Mr. Mark Christal:
Those companies that we mentioned, and many of our scaling potential companies, come from a sector where there is high-tech construction or, indeed, climate tech.
We are focused in EI but we need to make sure we have a national policy to drive scaling. It is absolutely critical. That includes having the access to funding and finance that is so important as well as the other supports that are needed for companies to scale, including other investors and an investment infrastructure that will drive that. That is on top of the existing supports we have on innovation, skills, leadership and all the areas we have talked about. That is hugely important. I raise also the skills agenda and access to talent. If we want to drive and maintain the regional balance of our companies we need to ensure those companies across the country, those that will sustain and those that will scale, have access to talent.
Johnny Mythen (Wexford, Sinn Fein)
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I have a quick question for the two organisations. What extra actions would they like to see in our recommendations to protect the environment regarding the use of AI and data centres?
Ms Alexa Toomey:
As Mr. Christal said, it is about investing in and ensuring we have the right environment for companies in the climate tech and high-tech construction sector that can support a more sustainable growth in this space. That is one thing we can certainly do. There is also a huge amount being done across the research system with things like the European digital innovation hubs and some of our larger tech centres. CeADAR and IMR come to mind immediately. Research is being done there to enable the sustainable growth of companies in this space. The enterprise White Paper is a few years old but it is something we look at every day. It really puts economic growth and sustainable growth on equal footings. We are looking at growing jobs and exports, as we always have in Enterprise Ireland, but we are also looking at meeting the climate targets we have set for ourselves. Having those two things working in tandem is really important from a policy perspective.
Mr. Mark Christal:
To go back to a point raised by the Deputy earlier, we want to see as many Irish companies as we can involved in big infrastructure projects here to contribute to sustainability and the climate agenda. They will use that, as we say, as a springboard for growth and we see that across the board. The more we can include and engage Irish SMEs and startups on AI, digitalisation and their growth and remove barriers to involve them in those national projects, the better.
Ms Una Fitzpatrick:
It is about continuing to allow for industry, the policymakers and all the stakeholders, including in planning, grid capacity and grid operators, to engage. There is positive engagement working through the large energy user action plan. It is about really ensuring we can demonstrate that co-ordinated growth model we are seeing now. From a broader Ireland perspective it is really important the country shows leadership, and it will in taking on the Presidency from tomorrow. The tech sovereignty package is going to take its first read-through during the Presidency. Ireland will have an important role because that package is calling out the need to triple the data centre capacity in Europe in the next five to seven years. Ireland can bring a lot to that conversation. We have a huge amount of expertise from a data centre management perspective including how to do it and how to try to do in a sustainable way. Ireland can take a real leadership role on these issues at a European level and I encourage this committee to support that. There is that broader piece on the recognition of the essential nature of data centres and working closely with the operators, but with an eye to maybe that European leadership. That is going to be key.
Johnny Mythen (Wexford, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses. Mr. O'Donovan mentioned sandboxes. What is the position on access for SMEs to sandboxes regarding high-risk situations?
Mr. Erik O'Donovan:
The sandboxes have not been established yet but they will be in August 2027. I mentioned them because they are a kind of construct you see in financial services but the idea is that you bring together regulators as well as people who are developing AI to come together. It is an opportunity for what we would call regulatory innovation. This is all very new and it is complex. I do not have to say that to this committee as members are dealing with this day in and day out.
They know this. The complexity can be addressed through the sandbox construct. That can help SMEs but it can also help the regulators understand various sectors and beef up their knowledge.
We work with the EDIHs, including on our Work Just Got Smarter campaign, which is a campaign to raise awareness about AI. I mentioned sectoral playbooks. I will also mention our pre-budget 2027 submission, which has an awful lot of recommendations outside the National Training Fund. I have probably hammered this point throughout this conversation but there are other recommendations in there to help SMEs adopt AI as well. We hope it is constructive in the context of the debate and public discourse on this.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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It falls to me to put the last few questions. There has been a lot of conversation about how AI is helping drive the growth of the likes of climate tech, exports, etc. How dependent is that growth on continued access to large-scale digital infrastructure?
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I include data centres as part of our overall digital growth and economic growth. Does Mr. Christal believe that data centres play a pivotal role in that and that there is a need for at least some to be located in Ireland?
Mr. Mark Christal:
We have multiple examples of Irish companies that are working with and contributing to the development of data centres here. You can look at it purely through that lens and the supply chain conversation we have had. We can provide the committee with examples of Irish companies that are contributing to the growth of data centres. As Ms Toomey said earlier, we hope that will be the basis of future growth as they go to other markets, so there is a twin benefit from the infrastructure they need to grow their business but also what it contributes to them on their scaling journey.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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It is a difficult circle to square, especially with the environmental impact of data centres. We really need to look at technologies that will allow us to reduce that impact, especially as data centres increase across the country. We have seen a lot. We are fifth in Europe for amount of data centres.
Mr. Erik O'Donovan:
If I may, Chair, we have companies in that regard. I call out Hanley Energy, which recently moved from EI to the IDA but is still a huge contributor to the Irish economy. It has developed battery technology to make data centres more efficient and environmentally friendly. We have really good examples in that regard.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I have a last question on the number of start-ups that are AI specific. This is a competitive race involving many companies across the world. The quality is more important than the quantity. Even 98 is quite a lot. The officials have gone through the robust nature of the background checks before they are supported by EI. It was a key component of the Draghi report that we create our own type of indigenous sector within Europe and that these companies are not seen as just Irish start-ups or scale-ups, but as European, and that we start buying from one another across Europe and breaking into different markets. Is there any particular fund available to the 98 start-ups as opposed to other start-ups, or is it the same pot for everybody?
Ms Alexa Toomey:
It is the same pot. We have our start-up budget and we operate that across two different funds. We have our pre-seed start-up fund, which is the earliest stage funding, and then our innovative HPSU fund for companies that are at the stage of becoming a commercial entity or maybe have their first sale over the line. It is the one pot of money. However, if we look at where our start-ups have always come from, the technology sector has historically been the biggest producer of start-ups.
There are always some start-ups in the food sector, for example, and we are very proud of them, and in manufacturing. However, as AI takes a bigger part in how businesses operate, we will get to a point where we will barely say it because all companies will be using AI. It will be ingrained in how people do business. That is probably where we are going. There are different things that we would work on with companies in that AI space when it comes to the capability supports that I keep coming back to and how we work with them on their privacy models and different things.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I see Mr. O'Donovan wants to come in. Before I allow him to, I will say that with job displacement, for example software developers leaving big tech because their jobs are being displaced, there is room to capitalise on that. I would advocate for a separate fund for AI in particular. I will let Mr. O'Donovan in briefly.
Mr. Erik O'Donovan:
I wanted to make one general point. I know that sovereignty has been mentioned a few times during the discussion. It is important that we take a smart approach to technological sovereignty or digital sovereignty. That means building capacities here in Ireland and in Europe but remaining open to like-minded partners so that we can access technology that might not be developed here. It is a smart approach. It is about building capacities here but also being open to investment, new ideas and innovation. It should not be about technological isolation or protectionism. I am not saying anybody has suggested that, but it is worth stating for the record.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, briefly.
Mr. Mark Christal:
We would welcome anything that provides greater support to start-ups. We are a funder of funds. We need to ensure that there is a venture capital, VC, ecosystem to do exactly what we are talking about. We need to ensure we are using the regional accelerator infrastructure so that entrepreneurs in this space have access to the supports they need.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Mr. Christal and Ms Toomey from Enterprise Ireland and Ms Fitzpatrick and Mr. O'Donovan from Technology Ireland and IBEC, respectively. I thank all the members of staff for today's session.