Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Wednesday, 20 May 2026
Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport
Road Safety: Discussion (Resumed)
2:00 am
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Apologies have been received from the Cathaoirleach.
On behalf of the committee, I am pleased to welcome Professor Denis A. Cusack, director of the Medical Bureau of Road Safety. I propose that we have seven minutes each over and back with the professor. His opening statement has been received, but I ask him to got through it.
Professor Denis Cusack:
Tá áthas orm a bheith anseo inniu. Gabhaim buíochas leis an gcoiste. I thank the committee for the kind invitation. I will put on my timer to ensure that I do not run over.
I am happy to present to and assist the committee on the topic of road safety. The Cathaoirleach has stated that the committee continues its work on the issues surrounding road safety, and I approach today with that in mind. I will look at an integrated treatment of the broader issues, including alcohol, medicine and drug use and testing; public health medicine and studies of injuries; new challenges to road safety and new initiatives to support it; and issues relating to the totality of the service and support given to citizens, including those bereaved by tragic road crash deaths through the coronial system. These issues have been considered in some of the recent discussions in this committee’s sessions.
As I notified the committee, although I am here primarily as director of the Medical Bureau of Road Safety, MBRS, I am also a member of the Coroner Service. I have served as coroner, senior coroner and deputy coroner and I am a counsel of the Coroners Society of Ireland. If the committee so wishes, I will address that as I think it had a discussion previously. I will also use my medico-legal input in any way I can to assist the committee.
I have been involved in each of the Government road safety strategies since the first one in 1998, The Road to Safety, when the number of road fatalities in Ireland was 472, which was 124 per million of the population of the time. In 2025, there was a significant and tragic increase of nearly 10% on the 2024 figure, with 188 people killed, or 35 per million of the population. The number being on an upward trajectory in this decade is a reminder of how these figures are subject to harsh changes in a short period. This morning, I saw the figures again.
Like of all of us, I hate looking at numbers because every number is a person. As of this morning, it is 65 people compared with 61 last year. Again, that could go up. Each one of those dead persons was a unique individual with loving families and friends who are now lost to us before their natural time. A large number of those who died were young, under the age of 35, including children. The recorded number of life-shattering injuries, with blighted lives and enormous stresses on families, has also increased to approximately 1,200 in 2025. That is an underestimation of serious injuries which is another matter to be addressed.
Factors causing road crashes stubbornly remain the same, including speeding, non-use of safety belts and protective gear, dangerous and careless driving due to fatigue, driver lack of attention, and of course, driving under the influence, DUI, of intoxicants. None of this is new information and our approach on all fronts must continue to be evidence-based and proportionate. Of these factors, excessive speed and driving under the influence are the two major factors. I endorse and strongly support the measures to tackle the speeding problem and DUI as what I have seen over 30 years as a coroner investigating road traffic crashes.
In relation to speeding, practical measures to address this include lowering of the speed limits, safety speed cameras both fixed and mobile, average speed detectors and the greater use by individual drivers of speed limiters. Regarding the MBRS, the bureau is the national independent statutory forensic body with responsibility for testing for intoxicants in Ireland, supplying equipment to An Garda Síochána and a designated role in implementing safety actions and advising on road traffic medicine. Last year, over 6,000 blood and urine samples were received by the bureau. Of which, 4,500 were tested for drugs. Approximately 3,250 breath samples were taken in the Garda stations with the evidential breath testing instruments from the Medical Bureau of Road Safety. We also supplied 1,400 preliminary alcohol breath testing devices with 200,000 breath tubes to An Garda Síochána. A very important point to note is that the average alcohol level last year was 157 mg in blood. That is more than three times the limit. I have looked back over the figures over 30 years and they are not shifting downwards. When people are drink driving, they really are drink driving.
One of the actions in relation to the road safety strategy is the use of alcohol ignition interlock, which prevents a vehicle from starting if the driver exceeds the breath alcohol limit. There is an initiative to introduce these on a voluntary basis in the first instance for participating commercial fleets and business and school bus providers, then rolling it out regarding the court system. Unfortunately, this is progressing much more slowly than is desirable. It is relevant to road safety, personal health and society generally.
On the issue of drug driving from the samples, 2,800 of the 4,500 went for drug testing and were found to be positive for at least one drug on screening, particularly cannabis, cocaine and benzodiazepines or Valium like drugs. Again, what we have found, particularly for cocaine and cannabis, they are multiples of the legal limit that is set. It is maybe six to ten times. Of course, we supply the Securetec DrugWipe6S for the roadside testing, which test for cannabis, cocaine, opiates, benzodiazepines, amphetamine and methamphetamine. Last year, we supplied 35,000 of these to An Garda Síochána.
New initiatives from the bureau include expansion of drug testing. For example, we are now testing and issuing certificates for ketamine and Ritalin. Ketamine being a drug of abuse as well as a being a medicinal one. Ritalin is used, for example, for attention defect syndromes. We are also looking at research and development of testing for nitrous oxide - laughing gas - which is also a social problem and driving problem and research on continually emerging synthetic cannabinoid drugs.
I will mention three legislative issues. As legislators, the members may wish to go further with these. These include a discussion of changing the three-hour limit for intoxicant driving offences; reviewing penalties for alcohol and polydrug combinations; and intoxicated driving of personal powered vehicles, such as e-scooters.
On medical fitness to drive, we have to make sure that drivers continue to take what is safe for them in their health and driving. Where people have an abuse, misuse or addiction problem, we have to make sure we have dependency and rehabilitation programmes.
Regarding the coroner's investigation of road fatalities, I recognise that this is a matter within the remit of the Minister for justice and the committee on justice, but in the greater scheme of things when people die from road traffic crashes part of what happens is how the bereaved are dealt with, how the investigation occurs and issuing of death certificates. We have issues in the Coroner Service requiring structural and support reforms. There is a growing non-availability of post-mortem services throughout Ireland. Inquest hearings are affected. Death certificates are slower being issued. We need a more consistent and standardised service. There are heads of Bill that were meant before the Government last year. There is still no sign of it. We will be liaising with the Minister for justice and the officials who are working very hard on this. I acknowledge the assistance of my colleagues at the bureau and my fellow coroners in the Coroner Service in all of this. I am pleased to answer any questions members may have. I am maybe wearing many hats, but I am trying to bring my medical, legal, forensic, coronial, and indeed, academic experience to be of benefit. I have been in this area for 30 years. Like the members, I am passionate and dedicated to trying to make it better for all of us.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Professor Cusack.
Just a note on privilege, I remind witnesses of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of that person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.
Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside of the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.
Members will have seven minutes each for questions and answers. I ask them to keep their questions short and to ask one question at a time. Deputy O'Gorman is first on the list.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the Chair very much. I thank Professor Cusack for a very detailed note in advance of the meeting. I will first ask about the alcohol ignition interlock and where that is at. He made the point that on average where people are tested and found to have blood alcohol, it is three times the limit. He said:"When people are drink-driving, they really are drink-driving." That is shocking that they are not just a little bit over; they are hammered basically going out driving. He raised that we are introducing this idea of an alcohol ignition interlock that would prevent people from driving if they were identified as over the limit. He said that this is progressing much more slowly than is desirable. He also mentioned that there is a question of voluntary adoption of this ignition interlock initially by commercial providers. I ask him to go into that in a little more detail. What was the original timeline for the adoption of these, particularly in private vehicles? What barriers does Professor Cusack see? Is there anything we can do to address those barriers?
Professor Denis Cusack:
The reason this is very important is that approximately 30% of road traffic crashes have alcohol as a contributory factor. That is fairly standard internationally. As coroners, we give the Health Research Board, HRB, and the national drug-related deaths index figures. I spoke with them. The latest figures are relating to 2021 but they are consistent. If we could wave a magic wand and in an ideal world have no drink-driving, we have the potential, therefore, of making the biggest change in bringing down the number of crashes, deaths and injuries, perhaps in the history of the State. We have done some other things over the past 20 or 30 years. I am a member of the road safety leadership group. I do not want to be a one trick charlatan. I do not want to say that is going to be the cure all. However, knowing the figures, those who are drink-driving are really doing it. As a doctor, I am saying that if these people have an alcohol use disorder, they also need medical and rehabilitation support.
This is not just for driving; their family life, social life, work life and everything can be a mess. We need to do both. All over Europe these are coming in. I have spoken in different places where they are already in place.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Are they mandatory in any European countries?
Professor Denis Cusack:
Yes, in some. Belgium is probably the leader. If members, as legislators, ever do bring it in, they should learn from the mistakes of the Belgian legislators and the court system there. We are not going to be the first. Obviously, these people have to be before the court, taken off the road and have their licence suspended but I also believe that is not going to solve the problem. We need to support them medically. However, if we cannot stop the driver, we should stop the car.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Stop the car and stop all the negative consequences for the driver in the court system as well.
Professor Denis Cusack:
Exactly. I do not like using the term "win-win" but this is a win-win. It is a win for the driver and it is a win for society. Regarding the device, it is like the roadside device. I have demonstrated it and the Minister for Transport, Deputy O'Brien, happened to be in RTÉ studios when I was demonstrating it.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Did he pass?
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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That is good.
Professor Denis Cusack:
-----and had given a very good interview. That is not defamatory; that is laudatory. One blows into the device and it stops the car. If we can do that, we have an enormous step forward. The Medical Bureau for Road Safety has approved five devices, which are on our website. We have done them in accordance with the European norms because stopping somebody driving is a big step, so we have to make sure they are safe.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I have just two minutes left. I am really interested in what the barriers are.
Professor Denis Cusack:
It is on a voluntary basis. A number of fleets already have them in. Am I allowed to mention names? Wexford Bus, Matthews Coach Hire and a few others already have them voluntarily. I would like to see it brought in voluntarily. It is in the road safety strategy as priority action 10. It is for phase 2, between 2025 and 2027. I asked what the timeframe is because it is being led by the Department. The answer I got was that it is on schedule for 2027. I know there is a lot of work to be done but we need to progress this. This is something that could actually change things. The words "transformative" and "legislation"-----
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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It is on a voluntary basis. Does Professor Cusack believe it should be on a voluntary basis or that it should be introduced first and then moved to a mandatory basis?
Professor Denis Cusack:
Let us go on a voluntary basis first and get it out there. However, it should be on a mandatory basis and we can decide whether it is for somebody with a very high level of alcohol who is before the court or for repeat offenders and offer it to them. A judge will have the discretion. Sometimes judges say that this is going to affect the offender's life and family life. This will give another option for a judge to say they will have one of these put into the offender's car. There are other considerations such as cost and so on.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Is it a major piece of work to the car to get the device installed? Can they be installed from the get-go?
Professor Denis Cusack:
Yes, and there is an EU directive that says all cars manufactured after July 2022 must be capable of having a port into which this device connects. We have asked the manufacturers and they can even retrofit for older cars. It is not a major job. There is an expense involved and there is an equity aspect to that in terms of whether everybody can afford it. On the other hand, not having a driver's licence is a huge cost.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Is the Department proposing legislation that would put this on a mandatory basis? Is that in the works anywhere?
Professor Denis Cusack:
It is meant to be in the pipeline but it has not progressed. I recognise that there are so many things to be done. The assistant secretary is pushing all of these but this is one of the most important, progressive things we could do. At the end I am going to request three things of the members as legislators and also provide three recommendations plus one other. I will leave that to the end. One is that members try to persuade the Ministers and the Department to progress this.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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That is great. We will take that up with the Ministers and in our report on road safety.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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It was really interesting.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Is it an alternative to disqualification in Belgium and the other countries or is it in addition to disqualification?
Professor Denis Cusack:
It is an addition but it shortens the period of disqualification. It would be open to us to look at whether it should be an alternative. I feel that is the way we should actually be going. It is usually disqualification with an alternative. Perhaps the disqualification should still be there because that would be the time during which I would like to see it linked up with not just the punitive aspect, but also the medical and rehabilitation support. That is a difficult part because it requires medical resources as well, but if we do not start, we are not going to get anywhere.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Is it similar to the roadside device where it has an indicator that there is alcohol in the person's system or does it have to be a graduated level that indicates exactly how much?
Professor Denis Cusack:
It can be set at different levels. The pattern would be that when it is a driver who has been convicted, particularly if they have been repeat convictions, any alcohol within the limit will not allow the car to start. I know there have been questions and people have said the driver could get their kid to blow into the device or a friend to blow into a device. There are safeguards and they are being updated all the time. Those of us who are old enough will remember when radios or rear window heaters were not standard in cars. Now we have everything. Perhaps it is too much distraction, with mini computers in our cars. This can be a device with safeguards to ensure people cannot circumvent them. In the end we should put this out as a positive thing to a person and say to them that they may have an alcohol-use disorder, an addiction, and that we want to help them. That is a big medical task but it is important. That is what I mean when I say "holistic". It is not just about punitive, coercive road safety. It is all of those but it is also about helping the driver who has an addiction problem.
Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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Tá brón orm nach bhfuil mé sa seomra ag an am seo. Could Professor Cusack elaborate further on what he has been speaking about? I am trying to understand the interlock system. Is Professor Cusack saying this should be brought in if somebody has been convicted of a drink-driving offence or does he think it should be introduced to all cars? For that situation we would need the motor industry to be heavily involved and regulation would have to come from the EU. In other countries is this applied to somebody who has a conviction for a drink-driving offence? Is there evidence around this with regard to repeat offenders in the case of these offences?
Professor Denis Cusack:
It is phased. At the moment it has to be voluntary because there is no legislation to support it. The next phase would be to target those drivers who are repeat offenders or have very high levels of alcohol, as they have a problem. The third phase, which I would recommend, is that all cars in the future be fitted with this device because if, across Europe and the world, 30% of crashes have alcohol as a contributory factor and that could be stopped overnight with these devices, why not do that? I try to think of bringing people with us, rather than punishment or conviction, by saying it is actually safer for them, their passengers, family, kids and livelihood and it will save them in all of those phases. It should be put forward as a positive message. What is so transformative or spectacular about saying somebody should not be behind the wheel of a car if they are intoxicated with alcohol? I do not think there is anything revolutionary in that, or maybe there is.
Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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In the other countries mentioned, does this operate along the same lines? Is it voluntary first, and specifically targeted at people who have drink-driving offences? Has it gone any further than that?
Professor Denis Cusack:
No, not yet. That is the discussion that is going to have to be had. A number of countries in the EU already have it in place, but it is within the criminal justice system, not on a widespread basis. The Senator is right that the Medical Bureau of Road Safety hosted the annual European review of this in our premises in University College Dublin. One of the main outcomes was that we have to continue to have buy-in from the car manufacturers because clearly, they do not-----
Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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I can imagine the level of pushback there might be if there is any cost to them.
Professor Denis Cusack:
Putting it in initially is not a huge extra cost. If we look at our own cars, there is already so much in them that it is not a big deal. However, I have been told - I must be careful in what I say - that perhaps there has been a slowdown in the input from the motor manufacturers. Why that is, I do not know, because it makes their cars safer. In fact, it should be a selling point for their cars.
Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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I can imagine it is tricky. As Professor Cusack said, there could be ways around it. There is a lot to be explored and to talk about within this. Does it include drug testing in other countries, or is it just alcohol?
Professor Denis Cusack:
At the moment, it is a breath test. We can only measure drugs in blood, urine or oral fluid, that is, saliva in the mouth. I have seen prototypes where cannabis is being looked at for measuring the breath. Since cannabis is the commonest drug in driving and in society, followed by cocaine, that in itself would be a progression. However, at the moment, these devices are limited to breath testing for alcohol.
Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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Professor Cusack referred in his opening statement to the three-hour rule. From a medical perspective, how well does this work?
Professor Denis Cusack:
It is a very good debate. This tattered book I have in front of me is one of the few copies of the Davitt report from 1963. My predecessor, who was actually my professor of forensic medicine when I was a medical student, pointed out that page 57 of the report sets out why they chose the three-hour limit. I had asked why this was chosen. For example, in the UK and other countries, there is no time limit. Dr. Eoin Fogarty from Cork, who has addressed this committee, has spoken with me about the Australian experience, and it has no time limit. It was put into the Davitt report, which states that the period must be sufficiently long to enable the suspect to be detected, the gardai to arrive on the scene, bring the suspect to the station and call the doctor, and the doctor to arrive, carry out a clinical examination and prepare for the taking of a sample. That was written in 1963, and it is as true today as it was then. However, there is no reason it has to be three hours.
I do not want to give a medical lecture on the absorption, plateauing and excretion of alcohol. However, alcohol is absorbed from the gut, reaches a plateau and is excreted at particular times. I will say that the majority of people who we find are way over the limit. This is worth exploring. I do not want to put in negative caveats, but there are considerations. The first question I would ask is how many drivers we are missing because of the three-hour rule. It is different in Australia because of distance. It may be different in Cork or Kerry, given the large distances. I have spoken informally with gardaí. I have asked them to look into - perhaps the next time they are at the committee, although I do not want to set them up for a question - whether gardaí find that the three-hour limit is a serious problem.
There is a problem getting doctors, and we have a general problem getting doctors in general practice - I am sure the health committee next door is discussing that. We have to look at that issue. There are also issues, although I do not want to put them in as negative ones, where a medical doctor is treating a patient. I would have concerns, having taught medical ethics, that the same doctor who comes along to treat you when you are in pain with broken bones is also going to be the doctor taking a sample at the same time for something that could be criminal evidence. We have to work out very carefully that the treating doctor or nurse is not going to be involved in gathering criminal evidence. Dr. Fogarty and I have discussed this.
There is also the issue of consent. There are cases before the higher courts at present, and one of them is also about the custody of the sample. Who will take it? Where is it put? Is the hospital responsible? Are gardaí responsible? I have spoken with Dr. Fogarty, and I think all of these questions can be answered, but we need to look at them. My fear is that it would lead to a prolongation of the period when drivers will have the sample taken, and that has implications for drugs. Some of the drugs, particularly cocaine and heroin, have a very short half-life, and they do not stay in the blood very long. If there was a tendency to say that we do not need to take the sample for five, six, seven or more hours, we could end up losing some of that information.
There is a lot to be balanced, but it is worthwhile exploring it. I would support Dr. Fogarty and colleagues. Some of my medical colleagues have the same concerns that would need to be worked out, for example, an unconscious driver. I drew up the guidelines when a sample was to be taken from a driver who was not able to give consent for the blood sample for possible drink-driving or drug driving to be taken. We went through all of the medical ethics and the constitutional issues. There is a lot of debate, but it is a debate that we should have if there is a significant problem. I would just point to those caveats.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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In England, I think they have a "reasonable" time. Is that what is said?
Professor Denis Cusack:
And in Australia. At the same time, I could bore the committee with a lecture about how alcohol and drugs are dealt with in the body. Like everything, it is a balance. The first question we have to answer is whether we are missing a very significant number of drivers who are, to put it politely, evading giving a sample.
It was mentioned in one of the hearings, based on CSO crime figures, that only 5,000 drivers were arrested. However, if we look at what I have told the committee, more than 6,000 samples of blood and urine came to the bureau in 2025, plus 3,250 breath samples. That is 9,250 last year. In order for those samples to be taken, the driver had to have been arrested. Therefore, there is a mismatch in the figures for arrested drivers. The gardaí are doing a good job, and I will come to that. If I were to make one recommendation, it relates to having more gardaí on the roads. The figure for the number of drivers arrested that was given to the committee was based on CSO figures, but it does not match what we have. If a sample comes in, a driver must have been arrested. There is something not matching in those figures.
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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I thank Professor Cusack for attending. It is all very interesting. Professor Cusack has answered some of the questions that I was going to ask about the interlock system. The first was a devil’s advocate question: how do we know somebody else is not going to activate the car for you? It is good to hear that times change and technology grows, and that this will be looked at. My other question was on whether it can detect drugs, and Professor Cusack has answered that as well.
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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That is okay. It will make it even quicker. Apart from the obvious incentive for the driver to put these in, would it bring down insurance costs? The main incentive is that the driver is not going to be drink-driving, is not going to cause an accident and is not going to end up in court and ruin their own life, as well as somebody else's. Are the insurance companies in on this, in the same way that they put a box in the car for learners to check their speed and so on?
Professor Denis Cusack:
It is one of the recommendations that I made to the group. What I have said is that on a voluntary basis - I know we have people who are related to the insurance industry, although they are not speaking for it - the answer is "Yes".
Why not give an incentive to fleets who bring them in voluntarily? It is up to the insurance companies. Why not give a 5% or 10% discount if a driver has it installed? In the bureau, a few drivers phoned us to ask where they could get one of these as they wanted it installed. For any driver who has it installed and is verified, why not give them an incentive? I know the MIBI will be talking about uninsured drivers. Why not give people an incentive to have insurance with lower premiums? I have asked the Department, which is leading this, if it could discuss with the car insurers about giving an incentive to drivers whilst we are working through the voluntary phase to the legislative criminal justice phase to the universal phase. Why cannot we do that?
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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Incentivise them to-----
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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I know there should not have to be an incentive. Not causing an accident should be enough of an incentive but I know if you will do something like that, people will ask why and what is in it for them?
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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Yes, we 100% do.
Professor Denis Cusack:
That is human psychology. I believe people would actually be very much in favour. The Cathaoirleach Gníomhach noted how far over the limit the drivers are. It is not just a matter of somebody saying they went out and they did not mean to drink and drive. They had a few zero alcohol beers and then they had one or two alcoholic ones. They did not think they would be over the limit.
When you look at our annual report - I am sure the committee has an awful lot to read - and look at some of the graphs, you can see the alcohol results. They are not just above the 50 mg limit, or in the 50 mg to 80 mg bracket or the 80 mg to 100 mg range, they are way over to the right. I have been at this in this post for 29 years next month. We are seeing a smaller group of drivers who have, I believe, a problem. Yes, if they are convicted, they are breaking the law but we have a serious problem. Are we down to that hard core of people whom we need to use the carrot and stick with? Stop the car starting and give them the medical and psychological support. I believe that yes, we have come to that point in society.
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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I thank Professor Cusack. I will go way back to the initial reason somebody might drink and drive. I do not condone it but I will be the devil's advocate. If you think about how there is a wider issue around rural Ireland where people do not have taxi services or public transport, they might not intentionally go out and say they will drink-drive tonight. They end up going for a few drinks and they have no way of getting home.
Professor Denis Cusack:
I have said this when I was before the committee previously and with the Minister and the group. For those of us who live in the city, I am lucky. If I want to go into town, I have public transport which I use and it will take me to town. We must look at the social exclusion and social isolation aspect. When we look at the devastating effect and the cost, the Bacon report years ago looked at how much it cost economically and that is not even looking at the devastating human loss and human cost. As a coroner, I have looked at families and I may also say in respect of the drivers who survived that the majority are good people. They never intended to go out and kill or injure anybody. They, too, live with that for the rest of their lives.
Of course, first and foremost, the focus is on the family. Susan Gray from PARC and Donna Price from the Irish Road Victims Association, IRVA, have been before the committee. That is where our focus must be but our focus must also be on recognising the human trauma for the driver. We will be doing everybody a favour if we can stop that. I am an advocate and have been spectacularly unsuccessful in getting certain reforms passed but I am not going to give up.
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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Fair play. I agree with the Professor 100%. It is about more roads policing and more gardaí because you can have as many cameras as you want but they will only pick up speed. It will not pick up drink or drug driving. Putting in place extra roads traffic policing would be a huge thing for us.
Professor Denis Cusack:
I was planning on making three recommendations. I only heard this morning on the news that the HRB has issued its report. It saw the biggest number of referrals for drug addiction at over 15,000, is for cannabis and cocaine. That is also reflected in driving. We have a huge alcohol dependency problem and some of my colleagues in health, such as Professor Frank Murray from Alcohol Action Ireland, have all been here. That is what they say.
If I may diverge a little bit, I am trying to bring together all of my experience over the past four decades. What I am seeing and what legislators are probably seeing and hearing across the board, with road safety and alcohol and drugs, the Department of Transport, the Department of justice, the Department of Health and the Department of education will be needed. We have to go to people, particularly in their teens, before they start driving and impress these messages upon them. As everyone here will know as legislators, part of the problem is that sometimes, responsibility is spread across several Departments. We used to have a ministerial committee and I believe we need the Ministers for Transport, justice, Health and education. Of course, the Minister for Finance always has to be in there someone. This has to be a cross-Departmental approach and that is difficult to do but it is for all the reasons we mentioned. We will win in transport and road safety. We will win in having fewer people before the courts. We will win in having better health for our citizens. If we get the education in, we will bring forward a group of younger people who will see how to use alcohol in a sensible way, if they wish, but will also see the dangers. We will come to e-scooters in terms of my legislative efforts in a few moments.
As the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach set out, we are looking at all of the issues. I am trying to bring to bear all of my various hats and I am doing much of this from memory. If I am leaving something out, please forgive me.
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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I thank Professor Cusack.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Professor Cusack and that is a very good suggestion. We might take him up on that.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I really appreciate Deputy Daly stepping into the Chair as there were some unforeseen circumstances this morning. I listened to the Professor's opening statement online and I read it as well. I heard the Professor's earlier evidence. I really appreciate his presence here today. As he said, he brings such a wealth of experience, over four decades, in so many different aspects.
I will not go back over what has been covered already. The Professor's evidence on the alcohol ignition interlock systems is really interesting and it is something we as a committee will reflect on. On his most recent comment, I agree. The issue intersects with so many different Departments including justice, Health, Finance and obviously Transport. I have reached out to the Taoiseach. I think we should have a dedicated Cabinet subcommittee on road safety. There is almost a sub-subcommittee but the matter is so serious, it merits a full Cabinet subcommittee. That is something I will continue to call for. We will reflect that in our final report as well.
We know that alcohol contributes to approximately 30% of all fatalities. Do we have any emerging data in terms of the extent to which drugs is a contributing factor to road fatalities?
Professor Denis Cusack:
Yes, we do. It is in the region of 20% and perhaps it is higher. That is fairly well-established internationally. Next week, I will be actually be presenting some papers - that is the other thing we have to do, both I and my colleagues in forensics and in health. By keeping up to date with the information across Europe and the world, we make sure we are keeping in line and in fact, are trying to be up in the premier league and to stay there.
It is probably 15% to 20%. Years ago, it puzzled me why Norway was finding that it was 50-50 between alcohol and other drugs. Of course, it was their enforcement and detection. We are now approaching that. Since we introduced roadside drug testing in 2017, there has been a dramatic increase. We have now the Securetec. As outlined earlier, the latter looks at six types of drugs. Indeed, some countries are looking to us as a model. I spoke in Malta, and they asked about our experience. We have a drug-driving problem. We are trying to get on top of it. We are trying to expand, for example, with ketamine and Ritalin. We are looking at nitrous oxide. The answer is that drug-driving is a serious problem. I would put it on a par with alcohol.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Between drink and drugs, they are a contributing factor in 50% of all fatalities. Is there some element that is drink and drugs combined?
Professor Denis Cusack:
Yes. That is why I go back to the legislative change. We are also finding what we refer to as "alcohol plus other drug". In the existing legislation, we have a tiered and increasing penalty. The more alcohol a person is found to have on board, the greater the penalty in the context of disqualification, a fine or possible imprisonment. With drugs, that is not the case. If someone has taken alcohol plus cannabis, say, there is no extra penalty. We need legislation. This is one of the things I would ask of the Oireachtas, to look at this and move. It is in our road safety as well.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Does Professor Cusack believe that the testing technologies are keeping pace with the emerging drugs?
Professor Denis Cusack:
Yes. We will be looking for new tenders within the EU. At the moment, we can get six and we are always asking if there can be more. We have had to make some choices. Due to physical space and the way they work, the manufacturers can only put six in. We are keeping tabs on that. The three commonest drugs found are cannabis, cocaine and benzodiazepines. They can be detected at the side of the road.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I hope the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach does not cut me off after seven minutes. This is really interesting.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Did you hear the evidence from Alcohol Action Ireland last week?
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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We see the extent to which drink and drugs are a contributing factor to fatalities and serious injuries. We also heard evidence last week about the breath-testing ratio. We are one of the lowest if not the lowest. Certainly, that was the evidence presented to us last week. I think 18 in every 1,000 inhabitants was benchmarked against France, which might have been 109. I think Estonia really stood out at in excess of 500 per 1,000 inhabitants. What does Professor Cusack say to that?
Professor Denis Cusack:
The figures are low. I do not want to go back into past controversy. I still have flashbacks about it. I spoke with Dr. Gilheany, because she checked the figures. I said that they are the figures in the public domain, that there were so many tests carried out in 2010 and 2011. I gave evidence to this committee, and it came up at the justice committee as well, that there were some concerns as to the accuracy of the number of breathalyser tests that the Garda had recorded as being carried out between 2009 and 2017.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Notwithstanding that, today, 18 per 1,000.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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There was approximately 190,000 of them.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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The Garda Commissioner will be before us in a number of weeks. What would Professor Cusack say to the Commissioner or what advice would he give to this committee in terms of addressing that? He touched on the strength of our roads policing unit. I think we are somewhere around 650 at the moment. That compares with significantly more back in 2010.
Professor Denis Cusack:
I will leave that to An Garda Síochána. It has issued a statement pointing out that about 60% of the offences for intoxicated driving were actually found by non-roads policing staff. That is a matter for the Garda. I have three recommendations that I believe would cut down on road traffic crashes. I will deliver them at the end. The first is An Garda Síochána enforcement. As humans, we do not mean to do things that are wrong but we make bad decisions sometimes. We need more enforcement because if there is visibility of gardaí on the road, that will increase. I am not blaming the Garda. It is having difficulty recruiting. It is doing its best. Our number of 6,000 blood and urine samples last year was the highest in 20 years that we have received.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I have two final questions, one on the Coroner Service. I am very familiar with Waterford. Would Professor Cusack go so far as to say that we have a crisis? In Waterford University Hospital, we are bringing in locum pathologists from the UK three days a week. Reflecting on the professor's 40 years' experience, and something we grappled with since we started this set of focused hearings, my second question relates to who is in charge in terms of road safety. We talked about it intersecting with many different Departments, the RSA, An Garda Síochána, local authorities and NGOs. Is it Professor Cusack's sense that there is somebody in charge or that there is not somebody in charge? We have talked about the possibility of a road safety commissioner. Many witnesses expressed no confidence in the RSA. I will conclude with that.
Professor Denis Cusack:
On the coroners, it is not just Waterford. There are five counties in the south east where there are post mortems. There is also a growing crisis, I am not sure whether the Deputy is aware, in Cork, Kerry, Limerick, Clare and Kildare. We will be meeting with the Department and the Minister for justice on that in a few weeks' time. I have spoken with my colleagues on the coroners' council, so I am authorised to comment on these matters on behalf of the Coroner Service and the Coroners Society of Ireland. Yes, it is a big crisis. We need reforms. It is not going to be solved overnight. If we do not have a proper, timely post-mortem service, bringing in colleagues from the UK, some of whom I know, is costly and they come from a different jurisdiction. It is a temporary solution. It has helped to avert the crisis of 700 post mortems in the south-eastern region, in Waterford. I am sure the Deputy is very familiar. My colleague coroner John Goff has spoken about it as have we. The difficulty is that this is all tied up with the other reforms. If I may, I think it was Donna Price and Susan Gray who mentioned that we have to have consistency of service. It should not be an Eircode issue as to the service we are providing.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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My final question was about who is in charge, co-ordinating action, demanding action, holding to account.
Professor Denis Cusack:
The responsibility falls to the road transport section in the Department of Transport, headed by the assistant secretary in that, who chairs the road safety leadership group. That is the designated section. The officials are doing their best, but this is a very unwieldy task in some ways. They are under enormous pressure. I would support them on the resource issues.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Does Professor Cusack support the idea of establishing the post of road safety commissioner?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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We are moving not so swiftly along.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Murphy is glad he is not in the Chair today.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Daly will be first up next week.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy, and the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach for his expert chairing. I also thank Professor Cusack for being here. Just so I am clear, could he talk through the statistics? We know that the statistices relating to roadside breathalysing are down this year, as are MIT checkpoints. Where do the Medical Bureau of Road Safety's figures come in the process?
Professor Denis Cusack:
About 190,000 breath tests were carried out last year, a mixture of mandatory intoxicant testing plus testing for other reasons, for example if a driver is seen to be driving in an aberrant way. We had 6,000 blood and urine samples in last year, which was the highest number in 20 years. We had 3,250 breath tests. I do not know if the Deputy was here when I gave those figures. Therefore, 9,250 drivers had to have been arrested, which is much greater than the figure which comes from other sources, which Dr. Gilheany quite rightly quoted.
There is a discrepancy in those figures. The Garda is obviously doing a good job in enforcement. The numbers are up. In fact, they are up approximately 10% in the first quarter. I have those figures with me as well. Enforcement is not in decline but, coming back to the ratio of breath tests, we could be doing more and that requires more gardaí out in traffic.
I thought of this as I was travelling on the DART into town. There is talk about a transport police. I have not spoken to anybody about this. Could we think outside the box and have a transport police service, as I call it An Garda iompair Éireann, who would cover rail, DART, bus and roadside? Within that group, they could even rotate for their own sanity in different ways. As well as having An Garda Síochána, which would deal with criminal matters, could we have a Garda transport corps who would cover all of this because there are problems with violence and antisocial behaviour? Maybe we could think about a Garda transport service. Maybe people who would come into that service would not be interested in the Garda criminal aspects.
By the way, I want to also praise the Garda for its input into the Coroner Service. They act as the coroner's investigative officers in a non-criminal way and without them, our coroner system would collapse. I do think we need to think a little more radically about how we police transport.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The Garda is doing a phenomenal job. It needs more resources to do it. Professor Cusack is saying there are more arrests for drink driving. I suppose what we are trying to understand is the journey from bad behaviour through to making sure that people are accountable for that bad behaviour and understanding how all of the different agencies and organisations work together to make road safety as efficient and robust as possible. Professor Cusack spoke about the three points that he wanted to make. Does he want to give those to us now?
Professor Denis Cusack:
I have already given them. I have what I call "three plus one" recommendations that I believe would dramatically address road traffic crashes, fatalities and injuries. The first is greater Garda Síochána numbers and enforcers. That is not a criticism of the Garda. Let us support the Garda and maybe think, if this is not working within the Garda system as it is, whether we should have a Garda transport corps.
The second recommendation is something the Department, the Minister and all of the people on the road safety leadership group have worked on. Speed cameras are not in my area of specialisation. The speed cameras roll-out, the average speed and the report that was issued just a few weeks ago are very positive. Speeding and intoxicated driving are the two major factors. We should continue to support that both with money and legislation.
The third recommendation is the alcohol interlock devices. We should implement this in the staged way - voluntary, criminal justice and universal - and couple it with medical rehabilitation.
Those are the three recommendations in transport and criminal justice. The fourth recommendation relates to the Coroner Service, which is a strange one to bring to a transport committee. However, I am looking at it holistically and how we treat the bereaved. There is nothing worse for the bereaved than the loss and then having to wait for death certificates and the inquest hearing. Of course, the criminal justice system must roll out. I and my coroner colleagues are doing our very best within a strained system with support and structures that, I sometimes say tongue in cheek, we should try and get into the 20th century first and then try to get them into the 21st century. The Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, is very supportive and I want to praise the officials in the Department of justice, but we need to move with those reforms because that is part of the integrated package of the tragic outcome of road traffic crashes. We have to remember the families. I was struck by the evidence given before this committee, which is what made me add that in and consult with my coroner colleagues. It was Deputy Moynihan and others who, to my surprise, brought that in. That should form part of the discussion. Those are my four recommendations.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Can I ask just one more question?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Yes. Briefly, because Deputy Boland needs to come in.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has responded in relation to extending the three hours for taking a blood sample. He said that to increase this period would allow for the level of intoxicant in a driver's blood to steadily decrease, potentially allowing for the driver to be below the limit by the time an evidential test is taken. What is Professor Cusack's opinion on that? How far do you go from three hours to make sure that the evidence can be stood over?
Professor Denis Cusack:
I addressed that so I will summarise it. This is all about the physiology of alcohol. When we take a drink, it takes 30 to 60 minutes before we absorb it. It reaches its peak in the blood at approximately 90 minutes and then it goes. Of course, that is for one drink. If people take drinks, that curve keeps on going up. For the majority of people we are finding that the average is over 150 mg/dL, which if you look at the graphs is way over, but one of the dangers is at what limit. In Australia, they have it for 12 hours. Many other countries have no limit. I discussed this with my chief analyst just yesterday and said someone is going to ask me about this. If we put it too far out, many of the people who are at 150 mg/dL, four hours and five hours later will still be over the 50 mg/dL, but we have the potential to lose some of those and we would have a great question to be asked. What is the limit? Do we set a new limit? Do we set it lower? We must remember that for the ordinary driver, 50 mg/dL to 80 mg/dL is an administrative penalty and over 80 mg/dL it goes into the courts system. For novice, heavy goods vehicles and learner drivers, it is 20 mg/dL. Physiologically and medically, there are questions. I believe we should look at it and I outlined some other important issues to be considered. The time is one thing and also whether doctors and nurses in emergency departments should be the ones taking it, where we then get into custody issues. As the Deputy will be aware, there is a case before the Supreme Court on that very issue.
No one has asked me about e-scooters and intoxicants. I encourage the members as legislators to consolidate the legislation. I looked up about e-scooters. We have 1962 legislation, 2003 legislation, 2010 legislation and regulations. I spent some of yesterday afternoon in the maze of legislation making sure I understood what an e-scooter is - a powered personal transporter, PPT. Twenty-five km/h in the power seems to be the cut-off. On intoxication, my colleagues in the emergency departments, particularly in St. Vincent's and St. James's, have done some great studies showing we are seeing more and more injuries. I note, thankfully, there have been only a small number of fatalities, although each one of them tragic. We need to look at intoxication and e-scooters. The Garda is satisfied that if it is a motor-propelled vehicle, it comes under section 4 of the 2010 Act. If it is a horse-drawn or pedal vehicle, it comes under section 6. I wonder whether we need to review that.
In the Department of Transport, two officials have been liaising with us. They are busily involved in the enormous task of consolidating the road traffic Acts because it is a maze that would take a Herculean effort to understand, if any of the members have ever looked at that legislation.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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We will move on. Deputy Boland has been waiting patiently.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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I am very interested in Professor Cusack's evidence. I have been left a little short on time so I will try and be brief.
With regard to the discrepancy in the samples, Professor Cusack said there was a total of 9,250 samples. Why is there a discrepancy in the reported figures?
Professor Denis Cusack:
We do not know. That is the simple answer. The reason I am very solid in that regard is that when we have a specimen that comes in, we know it has to come from a driver. We get six-monthly figures from the EBT, so all of these figures are verified. I cannot give an explanation as to why there is a discrepancy. The reason I wanted to point it out was to say that it is more encouraging than perhaps the lower figure of approximately 5,000 that was given in evidence. It is 9,250. It is not as bad as it might appear, but I cannot explain that discrepancy. I do not think it comes from An Garda Síochána as our figures are close to those of An Garda Síochána because we get updates at every road safety leadership group. Our figures correspond closely with those of An Garda Síochána, unsurprisingly.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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When it comes to interaction with An Garda Síochána, Professor Cusack mentioned a number of legislative and systemic issues he is seeing. Does the Medical Bureau of Road Safety check in with An Garda Síochána or feed back what it sees?
Professor Denis Cusack:
Yes. In fact, on Monday, our team met An Garda Síochána. We have regular meetings at an operational level and I keep in touch with the assistant commissioner.
Another question was asked about the Road Safety Authority, RSA. I am not going to comment on the Indecon report. I think that was brought up. In many ways, the RSA is doing a good job in gathering figures and educating. I will not comment on the recommendations. I gather the splitting of the RSA is not being followed through with, at least for the moment, but that is a matter that I do not wish to comment on any further.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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Does the Medical Bureau of Road Safety meet the RSA regularly?
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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That is good.
Professor Denis Cusack:
It is important. The three partners, as they are known in the modern language, although I call them the people we work closely with, are the road transport section of the Department of Transport, An Garda Síochána and the RSA. They are our closest working partners. Clearly, we do not want to silo and we want to make sure that problems are identified.
I also deal with a lot of legal queries and information because, as the Deputy probably knows, intoxicated driving cases are probably the most contested cases. I remember that some gardaí, when I dealt with them, said they would always prefer to have to get the proof together for a murder case because they are much more straightforward. It is very technical, hence consolidation of legislation. Indeed, the right of the driver to have anything properly tested is important in a democracy. We have to get that right as well. We keep an eye and alert An Garda Síochána in this regard, and it does likewise. We alert each other if something needs to be looked at or when a legitimate point is being raised. I hope that provides the Deputy with some picture. I am not saying it is perfect, but there is close co-operation.
At the same time, the Medical Bureau of Road Safety takes queries equally from defence solicitors. In fact, the most recent robust conversation I had was with a prosecutor rather than a defence solicitor. We are independent and neutral. We just want to see fairness and justice applied and help road safety.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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Professor Cusack mentioned e-scooters. We have talked about cars. There are also motorbikes. When it comes to the types of vehicles involved in accidents, such as e-scooters, cars and motorbikes, is any one more prevalent? Are we seeing trends in relation to the accidents and issues around drug and drink driving?
Professor Denis Cusack:
The overwhelming majority is still cars. There was an increase in the number of motorcyclists a few years ago, but that has flattened out, although it is still too many. E-scooter fatalities are a small number. This is where I must remind people of the injuries from crashes on bikes and e-scooters that are not fatal. I know from my colleagues in emergency departments that far more of these incidents go into the emergency department.
While I do not have time to go into it, a question was raised as to why we do not have a uniform system of looking at serious injuries. The maximum abbreviated injury scale, MAIS, is a scale from one to six where anything over three is considered a serious injury. That is set out and accepted by the European Commission. The other metric used to be any hospitalisation of more than 30 days. We need to standardise how we define serious injuries. We also need to get a handle from all of the emergency departments because while fatalities are, obviously, the most devastating, people who have breakages may not fully recover. It can put them out of work or affect their social life. We must not forget about the seriously injured. That is why we need to look at the safety measures.
I was asked to submit some papers about safety measures for e-scooters, and I did so. They are meant to have a limiter of 25 km/h. My understanding is that the limiter can be overridden. Gardaí have equipment to test for it. We are encouraging people to leave their cars behind to use other methods. We are going to have e-scooters and electric bikes, so let us look at the safety measures for those. My colleagues, when they wrote papers about injuries on e-scooters, found intoxication as a major finding for those who presented at the emergency department following e-scooter crashes. That is why we need to look at that more carefully. We must look at the balance between section 4 and section 6 of the 2010 Act, if I remember the sections correctly.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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We gave Deputy Boland her full time.
Grace Boland (Dublin Fingal West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Chair.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Professor Cusack for his valuable contribution, particularly his suggestion about the police transport service. That is debate that will be ongoing, no doubt. We discussed the interlock systems in particular. I also sensed Professor Cusack's frustration about the coroner system. Is that the correct way to put it?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Someone contacted the office a few weeks ago about a workplace accident. It has been four years since her husband died and she is still waiting.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I detect that. I thank Professor Cusack for his contribution. The e-scooters are a topic that, no doubt, will continue to cause controversy. We will now take a short break before the next witnesses come in from the Motor Insurers Bureau of Ireland. I thank all members for their contributions. It was a good debate.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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On behalf of the committee, I am pleased to welcome Mr. David Fitzgerald, chief executive of the Motor Insurers' Bureau of Ireland.
Our witness is reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that he should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of that person or entity. Therefore, if his statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, he will be directed to discontinue remarks. It is imperative that he comply with this direction.
Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I now invite Mr. Fitzgerald to make his opening statement on behalf of the Motor Insurers' Bureau of Ireland.
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
I thank the Cathaoirleach for the invitation to speak with the committee and to have the opportunity to contribute to this vital discussion. Ireland has an uninsured driving problem. Research undertaken by the Motor Insurers' Bureau of Ireland, MIBI, shows that last year, there were 211,000 uninsured or unregistered vehicles on Irish roads. That amounts to approximately one in every 15 vehicles or 6.5% of the overall road fleet. We now have the fourth highest level in the EU-EEA area. By way of comparison, the average across the region is 2.4%. This high level of uninsured driving is bad news for everyone who uses Irish roads. Every time an uninsured driver gets behind the wheel of his or her vehicle, he or she is breaking the law. Uninsured drivers also pose a significant danger to road safety. People who flout the law are known to be more likely to engage in other road traffic violations and to engage in more risky behaviour on our roads.
It also adds to the cost of motor insurance. The MIBI is a not-for-profit organisation established to compensate the victims of road traffic accidents caused by uninsured and unidentified vehicles. On average, our costs each year are in the region of €60 million. Our funding comes from the motor insurance providers active in this country. This effectively means that uninsured driving is costing every Irish motor insurance policyholder. Historically, it has added an estimated €30 to the cost of each policy, and should uninsured driving levels increase, that sum would also be likely to go up.
We believe there is a simple solution available to help address the uninsured problem in Ireland. Continuous vehicle coverage, CVC, is a system that requires motor insurance based on vehicle ownership. Vehicle owners are required to insure their vehicle at all times once they acquire the vehicle if the vehicle is to be used on Irish roads. This is different from the current approach whereby it is not an offence to own an uninsured vehicle. It is only an offence if one is caught driving it without valid insurance. That means all the onus is on An Garda Síochána to identify and apprehend these uninsured drivers when they are active on our roads.
CVC-type systems are widely used across the EU-EEA region. We understand that 27 other countries currently have such an approach in place, including France, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and more. One of the countries where it is used is the UK, where it has made a major difference. Since its introduction, the level of uninsured vehicles has dropped from approximately 6% to 2.5%. Under the UK system, warning notices are issued to vehicles that have been uninsured for 28 days. If no action is taken and the insurance status is not changed, after 56 days a fixed-charge fine is issued to the owner. Only after there has been no response from the owner for a period of 182 days is the matter referred to the police, which will pursue a prosecution. Consider the positive impact that could have on the Garda if a similar process were introduced in this country.
From all our research, we strongly believe that CVC offers the best solution to addressing the very high levels of uninsured driving in Ireland. To delve into the potential impact further, we asked KPMG to undertake an actuarial analysis. It came up with some very interesting findings. Its assessment shows that CVC could reduce the level of uninsured vehicles on Irish roads by approximately 40% in the space of five years. If that were to apply to current levels, it would see our uninsured rate drop from 6.5% to approximately 3.9%. That is in the region of 85,000 uninsured vehicles. KPMG anticipates that the expected impact would come in phases. There would be a 20% reduction after year one of the new approach, with an additional reduction of approximately 5% delivered each subsequent year.
Reducing the number of uninsured vehicles on Irish roads would also have an impact on the costs paid out by the MIBI. KPMG projects that within ten years of CVC being introduced, MIBI costs could be reduced by as much as an estimated €26 million per year based on current inflation levels and the continued use of the Irish motor insurance database, IMID. Going another few years beyond that, the combined cumulative savings per year would eventually reach €30 million. If that were achieved, it would also have a positive effect on motor insurance policyholders across the country. Using projections based on the current level of legal fees, compensation payments and inflation, we estimate that the contribution towards dealing with the impact of uninsured driving from the average motor insurance policy could move from the historical €30 contribution to about €15, so adding CVC could over time save the average law-abiding motorist as much as €10 to €15 each year.
The KPMG review also showed that if we contnue with the existing approach, it expects uninsured driving levels to plateau. This aligns with the data shown in the most recent uninsured analysis undertaken by the MIBI, with the overall level of uninsured and unregistered vehicles going from 6.7% in 2024 to 6.5% in 2025. The development of IMID and its use by An Garda Síochána has already made a difference in the fight against uninsured driving. IMID is helping and, in fact, it would be impossible to even suggest CVC if IMID did not exist. Having that database is essential. Both the Garda and the Government have described IMID as a game-changer. In that case, CVC means levelling up the battle against uninsured driving.
CVC represents best practice in tackling uninsured driving. It is an approach that would move this problem from being primarily policing led to being administration led, potentially reducing the burden placed on the Garda's finite resources. If introduced, it would save the Garda time, help reduce the costs facing law-abiding motorists and, most important, make our roads safer, which is in everyone's interests.
I again thank the commitee for this opportunity and I look forward to discussing this issue further with members.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Fitzgerald for his opening statement. It is extraordinary to think that there are 211,000 uninsured vehicles on Irish roads and that one in 15 vehicles is uninsured, with the cost impact of that, which is borne by insured drivers.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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This whole project has been eye-opening but it entails getting - excuse the pun - under the hood of how road safety works, so Mr. Fitzgerald will have to excuse some quite technical questions.
When the initiative - the database - was introduced, and it has been hugely successful, did it cover personal cars? Does it also include commercial vehicles?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
Both. The first phase was to cover private cars, which was the simplest to deliver, and then we expanded to include a national fleet database to capture all commercial vehicles. We needed some help from the fleet owners because they know which vehicles are covered at any one time. Since 2024, the Garda has had a complete picture of all of the insured vehicles on the road and hotlisted uninsured vehicles.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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It includes all types of fleet, cars as well.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The figures are still extremely high. Where does Mr. Fitzgerald think introducing the CVC will bring us to, if he can put a figure on it?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
In terms of the overall number of insured vehicles, we are currently at 6.5%. The conservative estimate based on an actuarial analysis by KPMG, which we got in to consult on this project, is that it could be reduced to 3.9%. This is in place in most European countries, including the UK. It looked at the pattern of bringing that in in other jurisdictions. It conservatively sees CVC making a difference of around 40%. We would get about half of that benefit in the first year and then about 5% over the following four years. It will take a little while to flow through in claims courts because the nature of how we are funded and claims progressing through the courts takes some time. If we take a forward-looking view, we believe that will save as much as €30 million, about half of our annual running costs for the honest motorists who pay for this in a levy. We are fully funded by the motor insurance industry of Ireland it has to pass that cost on to policyholders. We believe we could save up to €15 on every policy over a period of time.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Who would that 3.9% leave? I am trying to understand, after introducing the database, making sure fleet and commercial vehicles are part of it and bringing in this initiative, where they would be hiding.
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
It is a good question. Ultimately it is a matter for Garda enforcement. Part of this is to help the Garda. If you visualise one in every 15 cars and commercial vehicles driving around are uninsured at the moment, the Garda cannot stop them all. We have given them a powerful tool so they can readily identify who is uninsured, and that has made a big difference. The number of insurance summonses and vehicles is significantly up. It has made a difference. It has knocked about two percentage points off the uninsured population and more on the private car. If we move to IMID-led enforcement, we can readily identify who the people are and close the net on them. Perhaps the 3.9% is somewhat conservative. We would like to strive towards getting to the European average of 2.5%. Our immediate neighbours in the UK have been able to achieve it. It is a long journey of putting more resources into enforcement, driver education and making drivers feel they are more likely to get caught. There is always a small proportion of society that chooses to flout the law. They ignore fines and they are just not prepared to buy insurance for whatever reason. I strongly believe that every uninsured driver we can get off the road will make the roads safer. The type of accidents we see are worse than our member insurers see. We have a much larger proportion of large losses than on insured vehicles. The Road Safety Authority tells us it sees a correlation between uninsured vehicles and other risky behaviours. The Garda tells us that as well.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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It has been a huge eye-opener since working on this committee the number of instances where the Garda has given penalty points or of disqualified drivers who do not have licences in the first place. It is a huge number; it is scary. Would any of this help in capturing driver numbers within the courts system? There are approximately 1,500 penalty point offences that are not being captured on the national vehicle and driver file. That is the file insurance companies use. It is their database. Would this initiative help that?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
The broader IMID and CVC initiative would help. We have already captured 5.1 million validated numbers which we validated against the NVDF licence records. The Garda has ready access to that. I know that is something the Department of Transport is considering leveraging, having engaged with Courts Service. It is exploring that. It has the right to access this database and it is actively looking at it. It could be part of a helpful solution.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Does Mr. Fitzgerald thinks there is synergy in making the system stronger from insurance straight through to court summonses and ensuring the national vehicle driver file is-----
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
Absolutely. Every driver has a unique driver number that follows with them their whole lives regardless of which driving licence they have. The Garda and other interested stakeholders can now readily identify who they are dealing with, whether it is John Smith Snr. or Jnr. The old days of being able to fudge your identity would be much harder because we have captured, with the help of our members, driver numbers for all the named drivers in the database.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I would be interested in hearing how that is when there is one vehicle and three drivers attached to that vehicle. How do you make sure you get the right person?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
We capture the driver number for all named drivers on any policy sold and then we have a nightly validation process whereby those details are validated against the national vehicle driver file on a number of points, such as name, date of birth and so forth, so we believe we have the correct driver number for the correct person.
Emer Currie (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Should you be contributing to any reform in that area or should you be part of any efficiencies in this regard?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Mr. Fitzgerald for his opening statement. What he is proposing is a system whereby once you purchase a car and your name is on the log book, even if you keep the car at the back of the house, it would be an offence not to have it insured even if you were not driving it. Is that it?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
We could make an exception for that specific scenario and we have envisaged that. At the moment, if you own a motor vehicle and you choose to have it off the road, there is an exception process for motor tax. There is a statutory off-road declaration process. That could be readily adapted to cater for insurance. In the first instance, if you own a motor vehicle, you would be required to have third-party liability insurance. That is the European norm. We are out of step with the rest of Europe. We could cater for exceptions where someone has a vehicle and they plan to lay it up for a period. We could create an exception list of those vehicles and provide those to the Garda so someone is not abusing that system.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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If you make a declaration that your car is not being used, it is cumbersome enough for the car owner to have it declared off the road currently. It is also difficult that if somebody in this State moves abroad for six months or a year and does not insure their car, when they go to reinsure, the premium is quite high and they are penalised because the car was not insured for some time. Would Mr. Fitzgerald agree that is the case? It might be a disincentive to this type of scheme.
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
We have to balance broader things for society. At the moment we have a crisis in uninsured driving. This is a proven model in the rest of Europe and the UK. We are a body that compensates the victims of accidents caused by uninsured driving. We do not have a particular role in setting premiums.
There were things in the last motor insurance directive that allowed no-claims bonuses to be ported across Europe. If someone is insuring another car, they can bring that information back when they return to Ireland if they live abroad. I worked abroad at times and I have done that myself and that was accepted by my insurer. However, I am not an expert on the ins and the outs of it. I think those are minor issues that could be solved. If we step back and look at the crisis we have in uninsured driving, we know these are inherently dangerous drivers and it behoves us to look at sensible solutions that worked in other jurisdictions and bring them in for the good of everybody.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I am not saying it is a bad idea. What I am saying is there is already a de facto financial penalty where if somebody's insurance is out in September, they move abroad for a period of four months, and then go to reinsure in January, insurance companies do load on-----
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I remember coming across it a good bit after the last financial crash where people emigrated, left their car behind and returned after. They did not have any insurance policy in the State for a certain period, and when they went to reinsure, they were getting insurance policy quotes of €4,000 and €5,000. While I appreciate that the number of people who are driving uninsured is too high in this State, my concern for the policyholder if they are not using their car is that there is already a disincentive there. An awful lot has been done for insurance companies over the past 40 years such as abolishing juries and the MIBI. There is a long list since insurance was made mandatory and policies are not really coming down that much. That is a concern in the community in a cost-of-living crisis. I remain to be convinced that, even if such a scheme were in place, it would make a difference to the price of insurance policies that they would come down. Certainly, the evidence I have seen is that no matter what is done for the insurance industry, policies remain stubbornly high because, obviously, they have to make increased profit year on year to satisfy shareholders. I may be being a bit too cynical now, but I remain to be convinced that that would help. Obviously, if there are way more cars insured on the roads, the costs of the Motor Insurers Bureau of Ireland will come down because it will not have to be paying out for the crashes and the injuries that occur when people in uninsured vehicles are injured.
I have one other question. Is it the case that MIBI does not cover material damage, or it does not unless there is a personal injury claim attached to it?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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If someone in an uninsured car crashes into a parked car by accident but the owner is not in it, they are not included in this scheme.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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They would go back to their insurance company to cover that one. Is that it?
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The Injuries Resolution Board, which is kind of the successor to PIAB, was set up to try to bring things away from litigation and settle more awards in a more cost-effective manner. My understanding, however, is that the number of cases that are fully settled in the Injuries Resolution Board is still pretty low. In 2022, it was only about 4%, with 90% going to litigation. That may have changed in the intervening years but I gather it is still quite small. Are there steps we should be taking to strengthen the role of the Injuries Resolution Board? Should we direct or maybe force more cases to go there? It is dealing with insurance claims generally. Talking specifically in the area of motor insurance claims, does Mr. Fitzgerald think it would be beneficial if there were a higher degree of compulsion to go through and perhaps accept decisions or awards from the Injuries Resolution Board?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
We are big fans of the Injuries Resolution Board, so if at all possible we would accept its awards. Typically, if we think a case might be fraudulent or if there is a technical problem with the award, we would not accept it. At the moment we cannot make people accept those awards. I understand there is a process of reform under way. The powers of the Injuries Resolution Board have been strengthened in recent years, and there are more plans afoot under the insurance reform action plan, the committee which is chaired by An Tánaiste, to give further powers to discourage people from arbitrarily rejecting the injuries board awards. A lot of good research came out of the IRB which shows that people more or less end up with the same compensation from the Injuries Resolution Board versus running through the courts. The only difference is it takes people a lot longer to get the compensation-----
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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If they go through the courts?
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Does Mr. Fitzgerald have any sense in his own field, that is, motor insurance claims, of how many times the recommendations from the Injuries Resolution Board are accepted by people who are taking a case linked to motor insurance?
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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MIBI would be supportive of a greater degree of compulsion in terms of the acceptance of these.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I ask more generally about standardising awards when we actually get to the courts. One of the concerns from people is that, depending on the judge they are in front of, the level of the award for personal injuries generally, but particularly in the area of motor claims, can vary quite dramatically. Would MIBI be in favour of a higher degree of standardisation there? How would it see that achieved?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
At the outset I would say there has been some good work done by the Judicial Council in introducing personal injury guidelines. They are the same guidelines the IRB would use. That is helping to bring a level of consistency of damages awarded, regardless of whether they happen in the IRB or in the courts later on.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Is MIBI seeing adherence to those judicial guidelines, by and large?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
By and large, yes. There can always be exceptions, but typically the Judiciary will give its reasons for exceptions. Generally, adherence is quite good. Sometimes, given the length of time an award takes to work through the courts and the injury has not resolved, it may not be on quite the same basis as the IRB reviewed it, and that sometimes can be the reason for the divergence. If there are things that could be done there to tighten those up to put them on a level playing field, that would be welcome. The IRB would probably be best placed to answer some of these detailed questions; I am just giving my view.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Talking about the length of time a case takes to go through the court brings us back to our initial point that the IRB is a preferable venue to resolve many of these things.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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To follow up on the point Mr. Fitzgerald made earlier, I think the main reason people seem to refuse the IRB recommended compensation is that they think they will do more. He said research has been done that says, by and large, the IRB awards are basically mirrored by the court subsequently.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The Green Party believes that a lot more could be made of the IRB in terms of reducing insurance costs and, in terms of awards, getting finality to many of these cases much more quickly. I thank Mr. Fitzgerald.
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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Just one or two questions about the percentage of drivers without insurance. Has the bureau looked at the data on this? Is it predominantly learners or new drivers or is it a wide range of all drivers?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
It is difficult to say. We have a view on accident data later on. We have tried to profile the uninsured drivers. In terms of the vehicles themselves, it is difficult. We can tell they are uninsured, we can tell it is improving a little bit but it is still way too high by European standards. Unfortunately, it does tend to be young males under 30, with the vast majority of uninsured drivers involved in accidents being in that category.
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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I am just trying to see if there is a reason. I know some are going to go with no insurance because they are just going to do it anyway, but could it be to do with the cost of insurance for that age group or for new drivers? Is the reason they are taking the chance because they cannot afford the insurance?
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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I am just trying to come to a reason why there are so many. Not for one minute do I condone going without insurance because I know how important it is. I have had a lot of people interact with me about insurance. Many of them would be young learner drivers who cannot get their test quickly enough. As we know, the cost of insurance is completely different for learner compared with someone who has passed their test. Some of them think that they are only going to be driving to and from work a couple of miles every day on back roads and they will not be caught. It is not about the accident they might cause or the cost, it is more that they think there will not be gardaí on the back roads. People think they can just do this until they get their test done. I think there is a bit of this mentality as well, when it comes to the cost of the insurance.
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
The proposal for continuous vehicle coverage would identify that so we would know what vehicles had no insurance. We could warn people, if it was a genuine mistake and then we could have a graduated process whereby there is an administrative fine and then more serious action. An Garda could give them the knock on the door if they are ignoring the warnings. It has proven to be effective in other jurisdictions. The UK has more expensive insurance premiums than Ireland but it does not have this swathe of uninsured drivers because it has continuous vehicle coverage.
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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On that point, will there be a mechanism whereby if a car is off the road, the owner can pre-notify so that their tax will stop, so they do not have to keep the vehicle taxed?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
Exactly. That is how we would envisage it working. We think it would be a very small adjustment to the existing SORD system that people use for motor tax and we could add an insurance dimension to that. We could create a hot list for An Garda Síochána of anybody abusing that system but it would be fair and equitable if someone was going to lay up a car for the summer.
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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There could be a case of someone with a car sitting at home that they are waiting to sell. They have already bought a new car and they do not want to have two insurance policies, so there would be a mechanism for that.
Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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Quick and easy. Those were my only questions.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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The committee notes the extent to which MIBI is advocating for the introduction of continuous vehicle insurance coverage. Based on the UK experience and on the KPMG assessment, I have no doubt about the extent to which it would reduce the number of uninsured vehicles over time, with potential savings and a knock-on potential reduction for policyholders as well. How does the CVC system work practically?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
At the moment, gardaí have to catch someone in the act. It is only an offence to drive a vehicle on roads without insurance. It would change the system slightly to be in line with European norms, that once a person owns a motor vehicle they would be obliged to maintain motor third-party liability on that vehicle, unless it is put off the road in a formal way like we just talked about.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Does that mean that if I go to a forecourt and purchase a car, I must prove I have insurance before I can drive it away?
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I am just trying to properly understand CVC and how it will make a difference.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Right now, we know the registration numbers. Do we know the driving licence number of each of those?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
We would not know the driving licence numbers because they have not purchased insurance but we know which registered vehicles do not have insurance. We know there are 211,000 uninsured or unregistered vehicles. We clash our records against those of the Department of Transport and that is how we derive our figures. We know which vehicles they are but the gardaí are-----
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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How does it work in the UK? Does the Department for Transport write to these individuals?
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Is that the case in the UK?
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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When this was introduced in the UK were all the uninsured owners written to?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
Yes, exactly. There was a public awareness campaign because it was a change in the law. We would need to do the same here. In the UK the Department for Transport, supported by the equivalent of MIBI, sends a warning letter to all these people. They are given 28 days to acquire insurance, or if there is a mistake in the database, they have an opportunity to correct it. After the 28 days, if no action is taken, a fixed-charged notice in the form of a penalty fine is sent to the owner of a vehicle who chose to ignore the letter or not get insurance. I think it is about £300 at the moment. After a period of about six months, if a person still does not engage, pay the fine and get insurance, it becomes a more serious matter. The police get involved and prosecute the vehicle owner for failing to maintain insurance.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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On the off-road declaration, I disagree slightly with Deputy Daly. I do not think it is cumbersome at all.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I think the only condition is that a person must do the declaration before the existing tax disc expires. Otherwise, the tax has to be renewed and then do the declaration. That is a centralised system, done through the Department of Transport. How does that work in the context of multiple insurers? How does it work in the UK? Is there one centralised system for off-road declarations when it comes to insurance? Does each insurance provider have their own off-road declaration?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
The insurers would not need to be involved. It would be a matter for the individual or the business owner. In the same way that the individual or the business owner can declare the vehicle off-road for tax purposes, we would envisage that they would be able to declare a vehicle to be off the road for insurance purposes. We could cater for those exceptions when we do the checks. At the moment, we have, on a nightly basis, the population of all insured vehicles in Ireland and we could clash that against the Department's records and we could introduce the exceptions of those vehicles that are declared to be off the road for insurance purposes. The details would just have to be finessed a little bit but it would a very straightforward process. It would not be an issue for an insurer. If someone tells the insurer they are putting a vehicle off the road and want to cancel their policy, that would also flow into our nightly updates. It would just be a matter of the individual taking personal responsibility and saying that they did not want to maintain insurance on the vehicle because they knew it would be off the road for three months, in the same way that they would for motor tax.
It may be a tiny bit more real time than another tax, but a slight adaptation of that system would work very well. In the UK they have a similar system to our statutory off road declaration, SORD, system called SORN - statutory off road notification - and it works well.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Is there any evidence that uninsured drivers are disproportionately involved in serious or fatal collisions?
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Who is it doing the piece of research for at the moment?
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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When does Mr. Fitzgerald expect to have that evidence?
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Could he share that evidence with this committee?
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Are legislative changes required for the introduction of continuous vehicle coverage, CVC?
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Yes, a consolidation Bill.
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
Exactly. In the first instance, we could change the Road Traffic Act and then, potentially, if we wanted to take on the issuing of fines and free up Garda resources, secondary legislation to allow for another body, such as the Department of Transport or the Revenue Commissioners, to issue those fines might be needed.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I want to get Mr. Fitzgerald's views. If we go back to last December, for example, 3,000 vehicles were impounded as a result of a Garda initiative over the Christmas period and 65% of them had no insurance. Mr. Fitzgerald gave figures in his evidence of close to 40,000 over the last two years. Was that between 2023 and 2024 or between 2024 and-----
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Is a vehicle that does not have insurance compulsorily impounded if it is detected on the road by a garda?
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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The release fee is €100. It is an historical fee. We have done some work and are engaging with the Departments of justice and transport in the context of significantly increasing that fee. When an individual collects an impounded car, if it is for an insurance offence, do they have to produce insurance before the vehicle is released from the pound?
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Does Mr. Fitzgerald agree that it should be compulsory-----
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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-----that, if an individual's car is impounded for reasons of no insurance, they produce evidence of insurance? I am not so sure that is the case, though.
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
I would strongly welcome that. That is a very sensible suggestion, as is the indication that there would be a higher fee than the historical one. That would be a real deterrent. Some of the vehicles that are impounded are of very low value but the damage they can do is the same as any other vehicle.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Does Mr. Fitzgerald have any views on penalties for uninsured drivers? Is the existing legislation strong enough or do we need to see a significant strengthening of it?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
The headline penalties are quite good in that it is five penalty points and a mandatory court appearance. There is a fine of up to €5,000 and potentially a jail sentence of up to six months. Perhaps we would welcome minimum fines because sometimes the fine is awarded but it is ultimately a matter for the Judiciary. If there was a minimum fine of closer to the levels of an insurance policy, that might act as another deterrent.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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We are ahead of schedule. Is there anything else Mr. Fitzgerald wants to add in evidence in the final few minutes before we wrap up? What are the key recommendations that he would like to see the committee take on board?
Mr. David Fitzgerald:
The biggest one is CVC. We are an outlier when we look across Europe. I was scratching my head to understand why the level of uninsured driving is so high in Ireland. The first step was to give the Garda smart tools so that it could work smarter as well as harder. We have done that but the level is still stubbornly high. We researched across similar bodies to ourselves to see what people had. Continuous vehicle coverage came out loud and clear. Rather than trying to catch everybody in the act, if we can readily identify who does not have insurance, then we can make it an offence and tighten the net to reduce the level of uninsured driving and make the roads safer for everyone.
Michael Murphy (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Fitzgerald for his evidence and for his attendance here today. I also thank him for his work to advance road safety. That is what this committee is focused on at the moment. As Deputy Currie said, we are really looking under the hood at the moment. Both witnesses today have been really interesting and very helpful to the committee. The meeting now stands adjourned until Wednesday, 27 May at 9:30 a.m. when we will meet again in public session.