Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I should have advised members that the next meeting of this committee will be next week, on Tuesday, 26 May, when we will meet with the Minister for Health at 6 p.m.

On behalf of the committee I welcome our guests: the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy McEntee, who is accompanied by Ms Sonja Hyland, deputy secretary general, Mr. Ciarán Madden, director, and Ms Laoise Moore. I thank them all for their attendance.

As we recently marked the 28th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement, the Minister's role as coguarantor of the agreement remains more critical than ever. Our committee values the Department's ongoing commitment, in particular through the shared island initiative and the reconciliation fund, both of which continue to foster essential North-South co-operation. Its remit under the agreement carries significant weight in several key areas. The committee supports its work through our ongoing engagement with civil society, business chambers and community leaders across the island.

The format of the meeting is that I will invite the Minister to make her opening remarks and this will be followed by questions from members. Each member will have between five and seven minutes to ask their questions and the Minister will respond in that period. It is a 90-minute session with the Minister. She is caught for time.

Before we begin, I remind members of the constitutional requirement that in order to participate in public meetings, members must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex. Members of the committee attending remotely must do so from within the precincts of Leinster House. This is due to the constitutional requirement that, in order to participate in public meeting, members must be physically present within the confines of the place where Parliament has chosen to sit. In this regard, I ask any member partaking via Microsoft Teams that prior to making their contribution to the meeting they confirm they are on the grounds of the Leinster House campus.

Members and witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, I will direct them to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

Members will be aware that the committee will publish the opening statements on its website following the meeting. The Minister will be aware of that too. MPs participating in this committee session from a jurisdiction other than the State are advised they should also be mindful of their domestic law and how it may apply to their participation in the proceedings.

The Minister is very welcome. I invite her to make her opening remarks.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach and the committee for the invitation to join them this evening. I acknowledge the work of the committee, which is a testament to the deep cross-party commitment to the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. The Cathaoirleach referred to this already. It is also a testament to the personal commitment of members to supporting and building relationships and understanding across all three strands of the agreement - in Northern Ireland, North-South and east-west. The committee, with its provision for the participation of MPs representing Northern Ireland, is also a very practical manifestation of all-island political engagement. I am particularly delighted to meet and speak to colleagues from the North who are present here today. I look forward to the opportunity to engage with them further throughout the meeting. This is one part of the fabric of interparliamentary contacts across these islands. The North-South Interparliamentary Association will meet again soon. I welcome the renewed activity of that body in particular.

This committee has devoted considerable time and energy to, among other subjects, North-South co-operation, the shared island initiative and legacy. Its engagement is crucial to democratic leadership on these questions, which go to the very heart of relationships across these islands. At the outset, I note the importance of the UK-Ireland reset. The reset has been fundamental in shifting the context for our work on Northern Ireland. It is always most effective when we work in partnership with London. On a personal level I have seen that shift in operation on the ground. We have also seen a lot of political turbulence in Westminster over the past fortnight. There is no doubt that there may be more to come. Nevertheless, I am confident that the foundations of the British-Irish partnership remain extremely solid.

In March of last year, we agreed the UK-Ireland 2030 Joint Statement, which laid out a roadmap for an ambitious agenda of co-operation. In that statement, both Governments explicitly recognised that to be meaningful any reset must include and benefit Northern Ireland. I believe we are making good progress. One of the key areas where the reset opened up an avenue for progress is how to address the legacy of the Troubles. This has been an enormously challenging issue for successive Governments. Most important, it has been extremely difficult for survivors and the families of victims.

The Stormont House Agreement was agreed in 2014 by nearly all parties in Northern Ireland and between the two Governments. The last British Government, regrettably, resiled from that agreement and unilaterally put in place the 2023 Legacy Act. The Act was not fit for purpose. It did not, and still does not, comply with the European Convention on Human Rights and it did not command the confidence of families and survivors. Last September, after a year of intensive negotiations, the now Tánaiste - then Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade - and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland published the joint framework on legacy. The joint framework is the first agreement in a decade where a very clear agreed path has been laid out between the two Governments, with unambiguous commitments entered into by both Governments. At its core is reciprocal co-operation on investigations, inquiries and inquests. That offers a path to truth, accountability and, where possible, justice for victims and families. Crucially, it has the potential to meet the two key tests we set when we began negotiations - compliance with the European Convention on Human Rights and the ability to command the confidence of families and survivors. It is not perfect. Like all agreements, it represents a compromise.

Since coming to office as Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade last November, in every conversation I have had with victims and families, I have heard one very clear message: it is time to implement and deliver. That is squarely my focus and that of the Government. As we promised in the joint framework, we have established a dedicated unit in An Garda Síochána, the troubles legacy liaison unit. As we promised in the joint framework, we are working on legislation to enable comprehensive co-operation with the future reformed Legacy Commission in Northern Ireland. In the coming weeks, my colleague the Minister, Deputy Jim O'Callaghan, will publish the outline of that legislation. The British Government, for its part, has also moved ahead with its own implementing legislation. The UK's Troubles Bill, which was published last October, has had its First and Second Readings in the House of Commons. We now await Committee Stage to be scheduled. It is very important that it is scheduled as soon as possible. It is no secret that I have been concerned at the delay between the Second Reading and Committee Stage of the Bill. We have all been disappointed that the initially rapid pace has slowed and we do not yet have a firm date for the progression of the Bill. I voiced that concern directly to the Secretary of State when we met most recently at the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference, BIIGC, in Hillsborough a couple of weeks ago. I will continue to raise it directly with him. The Secretary of State has, however, confirmed to me that the legislation will be progressed early in this parliamentary session. I will speak to him again this week, and make clear our expectation that an early date be confirmed, notwithstanding the wider political turbulence within British politics at present.

Both Governments showed political resolve in agreeing the joint framework on legacy. We now have an opportunity to end the cycle of false dawns on legacy for many years. It is vital that we do not let this opportunity slip in the face of political headwinds. That is a point that both the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, and I made at the BIIGC.

No one underestimates the difficulty of delivering and implementing a comprehensive approach to legacy, one that finally gives victims and families the answers they deserve. If it were easy, it would have been done long ago. We know the politics of legacy are complex. However, they are not going to get any less complex. We need to implement and we need to deliver for people. I do not believe that we will get another chance. As the Tánaiste has said previously, and I think we all agree, there is no plan B here. This is the final opportunity to make sure that we bring family members, survivors and victims to where they need to be and get them the answers they deserve. Repairing the damage caused by the UK legacy Act is one part of a broader picture. It is not the only part. In the interests of time, I will not try to give too comprehensive an overview of all the Government’s work on legacy, but it is important to outline certain areas of work. Suffice to say, we remain actively engaged on a range of other cases and the key legacy processes, including our co-operation with the Omagh bombing inquiry, which is going through the Houses. I will be happy to respond to questions from committee members on these and any other legacy issues.

I want to turn now to North-South co-operation and the shared island initiative. I know this committee had an opportunity to meet, in particular, officials from the shared island unit in the Department of the Taoiseach last September and that the Minister for Health, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, will join members for a session in the near future. Strand 2 of the Good Friday Agreement put in place the framework for meaningful North-South co-operation. Over almost three decades, that co-operation has grown steadily and is now embedded across Government Departments. We are seeing routine, practical interactions between the two administrations in a whole range of areas. These include transport, healthcare, agriculture, environment, infrastructure, education, justice and many more.

The North-South Ministerial Council is the key driver of cross-Border co-operation. While its work has been hampered during the periods when the institutions were not functioning, it has proved to be durable and those relationships have continued irrespective. The North-South Ministerial Council has met five times in plenary session since the restoration of the institutions, most recently on 8 May in Armagh. At that meeting, we discussed business and trade issues, tackling gender-based violence, which is now a permanent item on the agenda, infrastructure and investment co-operation and emergency planning and preparedness in particular. As has been my consistent experience, the tone was extremely constructive, but most important, it is action-orientated. We are seeing meaningful, results-focused co-operation. This is driven again by the day-to-day work of Departments on both sides of the Border. It is delivering real and concrete progress to people living across this island, making a meaningful difference, most importantly, in people’s day-to-day lives.

In addition to the North-South Ministerial Council plenary, I also met with the First Minister and deputy First Minister last week in Armagh and on a number of occasions since being appointed. It was an opportunity for me to brief them on preparations for our upcoming European Union Presidency, including our intention to invite a number of Northern Irish Ministers to elements of some of the informal ministerial meetings that are being hosted in Ireland. I expect that colleagues will be doing the same within their own councils. Given its unique position in relation to the EU and, indeed, the Single Market, there was a real level of interest on EU issues, and particularly in our Presidency, among Northern stakeholders. We intend to maintain and intensify our engagement with public service, civil society, business and other partners in the North and share as much information as possible on the Presidency as it evolves and on an ongoing basis.

During our Presidency, the renewed agenda for EU-UK co-operation will be a top priority. While the Commission will remain the negotiator for the EU and will largely drive the agenda, Ireland, as the holder of the Presidency, is keen to move forward the EU-UK relationship. At the North-South Ministerial Council, I also had the opportunity to meet with Northern Ireland Minister for the Economy, Caoimhe Archibald, where we discussed issues including potential differential US tariffs on Scottish and Irish whiskeys as well as the current negotiations between the EU and UK on steel defence measures. We will be staying in close contact on these issues in particular. Cross-Border trade and business are thriving, with trade in goods alone valued at €10.9 billion for last year. This trade is evenly balanced, with roughly €5.5 billion moving from North to South and €5.4 billion from South to North.

All of this work is then complemented by the shared island initiative, which aims to harness the full potential of the Good Friday Agreement. We have committed €2 billion to the initiative through to 2035. My Department administers the shared island civic society fund, which is an important part of the initiative. The fund recognises that enduring cross-Border relationships begin at the grassroots level in community halls, sports clubs, environmental groups and, of course, arts studios and other areas. Our aim is to empower local leaders to address common challenges together on a cross-Border basis. Since its launch in 2023, the fund has provided €5 million of support to 171 projects across the island of Ireland, underpinning practical North-South co-operation and engagement. The Government has allocated a further €6 million to the fund over the 2025 to 2027 period. In 2025 alone, 60 new projects were greenlit, spanning sectors that directly affect the quality of life for citizens across the island. We saw the launch of the all-island youth forums tackling climate anxiety, joint heritage trails that celebrate our shared history and innovative social enterprises addressing rural isolation from Donegal to Down. The fifth round of funding under the shared island civic society fund is open for applications until 2 June. We have up to €2 million to award in 2026. I would, of course, take the opportunity to encourage organisations and groups to apply to that fund. I encourage members to talk to civic society groups in their constituencies about the value of this North-South engagement and, in particular, how the fund can support that engagement. I know that colleagues here will do the same.

Following the Taoiseach’s launch of the Shared Home Place initiative in April 2025, I was pleased to launch the diaspora strand entitled Shared Home Place: Diaspora Voices on St. Patrick’s Day at an event in Boston. Why? Because the story of Ireland and of the home place we share is not a single story. It is made up of many traditions including Irish, British, Anglo-Irish and Ulster Scots, and the many new communities that now call Ireland home. The Shared Home Place: Diaspora Voices initiative invites Irish people abroad, from all traditions and backgrounds, to come together to explore their shared heritage and cultural, place-based connections. We are putting together a Diaspora Voices pilot, working initially with embassies, consulates and communities in North America, Great Britain, Australia and New Zealand, and I am looking forward to a number of events being organised with the local Irish communities in all of those regions.

In March, I was also delighted to launch the new strategy for my Department’s reconciliation fund in St. Peter’s Immaculata Youth Centre in west Belfast, where I had an opportunity to meet with many of the wonderful partners there. I had an opportunity to engage with them at first hand and hear about how this fund is already making a huge difference to communities on the ground. Importantly, I was there to encourage them to apply for further funding to make sure we can continue to support them in that wonderful work. The reconciliation fund has played a key role in building and repairing relations on the island since the early 1980s. At a time when the community sector in Northern Ireland has seen significant cuts, we have increased our funding, adding €1 million to the reconciliation fund budget this year, doubling its budget overall since 2021. I hope that shows and is an indication of our commitment as a Government. The key to the success of the reconciliation fund is its partnership approach. I am totally committed to maintaining that and making sure that we remain agile, flexible and creative in responding to new ideas, new challenges and, indeed, new partners through that fund. I know the committee has met with some of our reconciliation fund partners. They have seen for themselves exactly the amazing work they do on peace and reconciliation across the island. The new strategy will guide the fund’s work through to 2029. As I said, it is designed to be agile, focus on support for work at community level and put partnership at the centre of everything it does. I am keen to engage further with more of the organisations on my next visit to see exactly how we can focus this fund and make sure that it works in the most effective way possible.

It is also designed to respond to that changing context because communities have changed on the island of Ireland and so we need to adapt. Some changes are demographic. So many of the emerging leaders of today’s Northern Ireland were born after the Good Friday Agreement. They belong to a generation for whom the Troubles are a chapter in what is a long history of division, but it is not a lived experience for them. Some changes are technological. The information landscape today is completely unrecognisable from that in 1998. For all the opportunities that technological revolution has brought, we also have to face up to the reality of an explosion in online sectarianism, racism and xenophobia and, of course, disinformation to which none of us is immune. With all that in mind, the new strategy commits the fund to supporting a new generation of peacemakers and championing innovation. We want to support dynamic organisations that are willing to try new and different things. Society is changing, so we cannot stand still with it.

I want to mention, too, the International Fund for Ireland, IFI. While it is, of course, an independent organisation, the Government continues to champion, support and fund this work. The IFI launched its own new strategy last week in Belfast, and we look forward to a launch in Dublin later this year. It has now been 40 years since the IFI was established, with bipartisan support from our friends and partners, importantly, in the US. We have worked hard to reinstate US funding to the IFI in the wake of the closure of the United States Agency for International Development, USAID. We very much welcome the confirmation received last month from the US Administration that $4 million will be disbursed shortly. As all members know, the fund’s independence and intergovernmental nature is crucial to its success. It is precisely because it is seen as impartial and as not belonging to any one government or another or one community or another that it can reach some of the most excluded communities who have never felt the peace dividend and remain vulnerable to paramilitarism and extremism.

I have visited Northern Ireland on a number of occasions since taking office in November, engaging with the First Minister and deputy First Minister, with the Speaker of the Assembly and with the leaders of the major parties, as well as with civil society and victims and survivors groups. My term in office to date has coincided with a challenging period in Northern politics. Northern Ireland has entered a new financial year with serious fiscal challenges and with no budget yet agreed. For some that has raised some fears over the stability of the institutions.

Last year, my predecessor in this role called on all parties to hold their nerve, to not focus too early on electoral considerations and to keep the focus on delivery. I echo that sentiment today. From my engagement with all parties, I know that the priority and the focus is to ensure that a budget is agreed and that those priority areas and that work that is being done can be implemented.

As politicians, we all know that our democracies need care. Parties will make electoral calculations over the coming months. That is normal. It is part of what we all do. However, I call on all parties to ensure that we avoid any actions that would undermine public confidence in their institutions more broadly.

We can never take for granted the presence of locally elected, locally accountable democratic representation in Northern Ireland. Again, we remember its absence. It is also true, though, that people's expectations of peace increase the further they move from conflict. We are approaching the 30th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement. If it was ever enough for Stormont to simply exist, that is no longer the case. The people of Northern Ireland deserve for it to function effectively and deliver for them.

There is currently a live debate in Northern Ireland on reform of the devolved institutions. Of course, we are following it closely. That is in the first instance a question for the parties in the Assembly and the Executive, in keeping with the stranded nature of the agreement. The three strands of the agreement are, however, interlocking and interdependent. For the Irish and British governments, our obligation as co-guarantors is to support the multi-party agreement in all its aspects. At Stormont, the Assembly and Executive Review Committee is making a substantive contribution to the debate on reform. The Assembly has also recently passed important motions on this issue. Most parties are formulating public positions on the issue of reform and developing proposals. Civic society and the media are playing a vital part in this debate too, of course.

The Good Friday Agreement was built on the premise that the institutions can evolve. That is clear from its text, which includes provisions for review. It is also clear from its negotiating history, as told by those who negotiated it, as well as from changes made at different times. The Government has previously made clear that we are ready for a meaningful conversation on reform. That is still the case. Clearly, it is for the parties of the North to work together to move forward with this and to present the case. I understand that the Secretary of State has committed to discussing the question of reform with the parties. I have previously raised the issue with him and no doubt will do so again.

In addition to questions about the function of the devolved institution, people are also engaged with topics such as a bill of rights for Northern Ireland and the question of re-establishing the Civic Forum, which is a commitment in our programme for Government. No matter the institutional set-up, whether Stormont is reformed or not, political culture will remain crucial. Cultivating interpersonal relationships across party lines will matter. Serious policy thinking will matter. I am proud that we support work in both those areas through the reconciliation fund but ultimately, when it comes to setting political culture, there is no substitute for political leadership, for political engagement and for all of us to co-operate and to work collectively with each other.

For some, the call for reform of the devolved institutions comes from a place of disillusionment. Successive collapses have exacerbated that disillusionment. We have to be honest and hard-headed in identifying the top-line risks of that disillusionment. It has the potential to erode the sustainability of the political settlement provided by the Good Friday Agreement.

As political leaders, when we think about how to address this, we have to remember that the genesis of the agreement was to do with how it married institutional design with a commitment to pluralism, parity of esteem and a commitment to human rights and reconciliation, among other values. We also need to be conscious that at any given moment, one party's veto can be seen as another party's safeguard and that parties can find themselves on either side of that dynamic at different times. We need to show great care when discussing these issues because power-sharing is a precious achievement.

It is for the parties to set out their positions on specific reforms and their views on what process to follow. That is happening. The Irish Government will play a constructive role. As we do so, we will continue to be an advocate for the principles that underpin peace and reconciliation on these islands, as well as for the unfulfilled potential of the agreement.

When we say we are committed to the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement, what we mean is that we are working across all the strands of the agreement to build a more connected, sustainable, reconciled and prosperous island. That is the agenda we are prioritising in the lifetime of this Government. It is an ambitious agenda for the future of this island, some of which I hope has emerged from these remarks. They were lengthy remarks and I appreciate the Cathaoirleach allowing me to read them into the record.

I thank the Cathaoirleach again for the opportunity to address the committee and look forward to engaging with all the members on these matters and any other as well.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister. Given it is the Minister's first engagement here with the committee in her new role, it is important to wish her well in that role and commend her on the engagement that she has had to date in a very short period. The Minister has certainly engaged widely. It is important for us as a committee to engage with the Minister and I thank her for those opening remarks.

We will have five minutes per member including questions and answer. We will start with Senator Comyn.

Alison Comyn (Fianna Fail)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. Gabhaim buíochas leí. It is really good to see her here. It was a very important statement.

We have had some remarkable engagements in this committee over the past year or so. As I come from a Border county and having worked in Belfast during the drawing up of the Good Friday Agreement, it is heartening to see what a living breathing document it is. We need to make sure we make inroads on these outstanding legacy issues. There will always be something, but we are making inroads. By the Minister's statement, I can see that she is.

We had some, as I said, very interesting engagements, not least from the victims who are still hurting. We mentioned earlier on the WAVE trauma group, and Raymond McCord. I would like an update on the Minister's engagements with victims' groups, particularly because we keep hearing that sometimes political convenience is taken over the families' views.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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The priority is making sure that in progressing any legislation, be it here or in the UK, the views and the voices of the families are taken into consideration. Last September, when the agreement was reached between the then Minister, Deputy Harris, and the Secretary of State, Hilary Benn, that was to the fore of the overall agreement.

I have met a number of organisations together when I have travelled to Northern Ireland. The Minister, Deputy Jim O'Callaghan, in his remit in developing much of the legislation, has also met them recently. I have tried to convey in that engagement and any subsequent engagement, be it on an informal or a one-to-one basis, where I have met other family members and victims, that my intention is to ensure that the legislation is enacted faithfully, that a process is put in place to ensure that where there were unanswered questions and where there were cases that have not been heard yet, they can be progressed as quickly as possible but the priority has to be the enactment of the legislation within the UK. That is why my engagement with the Secretary of State, Hilary Benn, has consistently called for the legislation to progress. We cannot progress ours until theirs is progressed and we need to make sure that happens as quickly as possible. I believe then we will have a much better structure in place to work with and to support families in finding peace and answers that we have not been able to provide and in finding some solace for family members.

Alison Comyn (Fianna Fail)
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Would it be possible to get an update then on the legacy unit within the Garda Síochána? How are they supporting co-operation on Troubles-related "crises", for want of a better word?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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It is early days in terms of the opening of the legacy unit. The commitment had been to open before the end of the year and that commitment was fulfilled. My understanding is that the office itself is now looking to see how it can expand and grow. It would have opened initially with a smaller number of members but it is looking to see how it can grow. While I do not have the exact figures and I do not have data as to how many people have engaged with the office, it is there, it is open, and it is available for any family members or any individual to engage directly, be it on specific cases or on wider inquiries that are taking place. Obviously, the Omagh inquiry is due to happen soon. There is other work that is happening in tandem with it. It is established and my understanding is that it will most likely grow and expand in the time ahead.

Alison Comyn (Fianna Fail)
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It might be possible to get figures at a later date.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I will ask the Minister for justice to respond. It has gone through his Department.

Alison Comyn (Fianna Fail)
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How can we ensure that the Border counties, such as Louth, Meath, Cavan, Donegal and even beyond, will see real benefits?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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From the policies?

Alison Comyn (Fianna Fail)
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How will they see benefits from the implementations we are pushing here?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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There are several ways in which the people in Border communities will benefit, not least from the funds I have mentioned, for example, the shared island fund, the larger funds or civic funds. We have seen through the projects in our own constituencies and areas where that funding has gone and how people have benefited from it. Certainly, the work on legacy is something that will apply to everybody, particularly in those Border regions.

The quicker we can progress this legislation and put structures in place to ensure any of the projects applied for through the shared island fund, the quicker we can work collectively together. However, it is about that political engagement, and maybe that is from my own experience in previous and current roles I have had. For example, with justice, I did a huge amount of work with the Northern Minister, Naomi Long, on domestic and sexual violence and how we could see from a cross-Border perspective greater co-operation between the PSNI and An Garda Síochána. We also looked at where there were ways of evading the legal systems so that we could co-operate more closely and share our experience and knowledge around new laws and legislation. Everybody, but particularly people in the Border communities, will benefit from that type of ministerial and political exchange where Departments are following through and making sure that work is completed. That work is happening across many different Departments, and that is why those structures I mentioned - the North-South meetings that have taken place - are so important. That work gets carried through with those engagements.

David Maxwell (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for coming in.

Since this Government took office, the relationship with the UK has been not as fractious. It seems more harmonious and we seem to be working well. From a North-South perspective, we see it with this body meeting our Northern counterparts. The North-South parliamentary body is meeting again this week here in Dublin, with our Northern counterparts coming down.

Does the Minister think there is a good reset in relations North and South, as well as east and west between London and Dublin? It seems that way. Does the Minister see the workings of that reset coming forward?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Absolutely, and being very honest, I see a complete reset. I see the relationships at every level, not just from Prime Minister to Taoiseach, but also the deputy First and First Ministers. I see the engagement we are having at every political level and parliamentary level, as well as engagement between institutions and Departments. The work that is happening now is standing to us. Even when the institutions were not up and running, the work that was happening between those North and South bodies continued.

For example, I mentioned in the area of justice, not just in domestic and sexual violence, but also human trafficking and cross-Border crime. All of these areas continue to be worked on. That level of co-operation has increased with the meetings we are having. The British-Irish Council, the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference and North-South Ministerial Council meetings are happening now on a more regular basis. This means that relationships are building and developing. As public representatives, we probably all know that when we are able to build relationships and develop that connection, it is much easier to resolve challenges that arise or difficulties that emerge. You can also identify opportunities. We have tried to focus on targeted areas with action-oriented meetings so that, at the end of each meeting, we are asking what we are going to achieve in this and how can we make progress and take it forward. The committee would have seen in the most recent UK-Ireland Summit, which has now happened for the second time, with the first being in Liverpool and the most recent one in Cork, that the focus was an all-island basis as well as east and west. It is about how we can focus on things like greater energy connectivity, working collectively on reducing cost for people overall, and looking at all-island health and initiatives that support people North, South, east and west. The relationships themselves have significantly improved, and by the nature of that, we are starting to see a lot more tangible outcomes through the meetings and engagements we are having.

David Maxwell (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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That is great. My last question refers to last Sunday, when we had the anniversary of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings 52 years ago. The Minister mentioned the Garda legacy unit. Legacy is a big issue and is going to be a massive one going forward for both the Dublin and UK Governments. It is the proverbial kicking the can down the road, but it probably had to be to get the peace we needed, and we have to look after that.

I have to be parochial here, though. The Dublin and Monaghan bombings families are constantly looking. This goes for all families on both sides; there are legacy issues there for everything. The Dublin-Monaghan bombings were the single biggest loss of life during the Troubles. Do we have any update on where we are with those issues for the families, both in Dublin and Monaghan?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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This is obviously a long-standing and very difficult issue, particularly for the families. This is something that the Deputy and many other colleagues have raised many times.

This and previous Irish Governments have had long-standing requests in with the British Government to allow access by an independent and, as proposed, international judicial figure to the original documents held by the British Government relating specifically to the Dublin-Monaghan bombings. This has been asked for again. The requests arise from successive all-party motions adopted by the Dáil here. We have a joint framework on legacy, which commits the British Government to co-operating in this regard.

I have raised this again and will continue to raise it with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland until we get to that point where we are satisfied and have access to those figures or data. In addition, there has been a delay in the publication of the report of Operation Denton, for reasons that have been outlined previously in the House. The review of cases included the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. Obviously, the delay means that there is further information that is not being published. We have been very clear in asking for this to be published as soon as possible and for any legal impediments or reasons as to why it is not being published to be overcome as quickly as possible.

I appreciate that this is not the answer the families want to hear. They want progress to happen. However, I assure the Deputy and the families that this is an issue that I raise consistently, and that this Government will continue to raise, until we get to where we need to be with it.

Mr. John Finucane:

I thank the Minister for coming in.

I want to begin by raising the unlawful detention of Irish citizens by the Israeli state in recent days, one of whom is north Belfast man, Fra Hughes. Would the Minister be able to provide an update as to their status, given the understandable concerns around their safety and well-being, as well as what steps are being taken to secure their safe return to Ireland?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Finucane for raising this question. Like everyone here, I have been extremely concerned about Irish citizens, and many other citizens across 50 or so boats, being illegally detained in international waters by the Israel Defense Forces. We have been very clear that that is not acceptable, as have many other countries.

Mr. Finucane will forgive me because the information is changing somewhat, but my understanding at the moment is that there were 15 Irish citizens on board the different boats. As of before this committee meeting, we knew that 14 were detained and possibly the other individual also, but I will have to clarify that. We have been engaging with the Israeli authorities through our ambassadors on the ground since this happened yesterday and making it very clear that, as soon as possible, we want to have direct engagement with those on the boats. We cannot engage with them directly at present because they do not have their phones. However, we have been engaging directly with their families, reassuring them that we are making every effort to ensure that we have that direct engagement where possible. Most important is that we have access to them so that we can get people home safely.

Unfortunately, there is still no clarity at present as to where they will be landing. The boats intercepted last week were brought to Greece, but it is not clear that that will happen in this case. However, as soon as that information becomes available, we will engage directly with families. This is completely unacceptable behaviour by the Israeli Government and against international law. This is another reason we need to collectively respond at a European level to these types of action being taken.

While the Irish Government has asked people not to take part in these flotillas for the very reason that this is a difficult and changing dynamic, we all understand why people have taken particular actions to highlight what is happening in Gaza and the wider Middle East. I acknowledge and recognise that.

Mr. John Finucane:

I thank the Minister for that.

Moving to legacy, I was at an event in London last night that was attended by a retired general, Sir Nick Parker, former chief military officer in the North, and Lord Faulkner from the British Government. It was another example of where the debate on legacy is, particularly in Britain. It is very much focused on its veterans, soldiers and state actors. Will the Minister expand a little more? She very fairly outlined her frustration and concern at the level of time that is being taken for this legislation. It is being pushed back into the autumn. There is real concern that the space is being filled with attempts to bolster protections for state actors. When you juxtapose that with the publication of the May review into the Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery, ICRIR, would the Minister agree with the concern that the real focus should be on reassuring families and victims that any process that comes out of this legislation is deserving of their trust and is going to be effective and independent? Will the Minister expand a little on what steps the Government is taking to ensure that the British Government lives up to the agreement it signed up to with our Government? Unfortunately, there is form when it comes to legacy whereby agreements are not always implemented with the passage of time.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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There has been a disproportionate focus on veterans. The number of veterans who have been convicted of murder or manslaughter since the Good Friday Agreement is one. I do not think this is a witch hunt. I do not think that the focus here is to try to target veterans or soldiers, many of whom enlisted and were carrying out their jobs to the best of their ability, and some of whom were also victims. The focus must always be on victims and survivors, some of whom were veterans. That is our priority and was our focus throughout the joint agreement that was reached last September.

The way in which we, and I, are engaging with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland is to consistently state and restate our position that what was agreed last September must be faithfully translated in the legislation. While it is not for the Irish Government to dictate what the UK puts into legislation, there is a very clear commitment by both Governments that what was agreed must be faithfully translated. If there is any skewing of legislation that would in any way favour one group of people, that is not a faithful translation. I have been reassured many times by the Secretary of State and his team. The British Government has also reassured the Irish Government that the agreement will be faithfully translated. We have to work on the basis that where we reach an agreement, it is signed and work is progressing, all parties to it will fulfil the agreement. That is the commitment I have been given. Any legislative amendments that may progress must apply equally to all victims or survivors and there is no distinction or differentiation. Any amnesty is completely unacceptable, and that has been made clear by all parties.

Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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I have a question about ECHR compliance. We have not seen an explicit commitment to the ECHR standards under the new legacy commission. There is obviously no bill of rights in the North. That was never completed. The ECHR has been the corner-stone for that human rights piece and giving communities in the North a sense of protection. What is going to be done to ensure there is ECHR compliance and it is built into the new legacy commission?

We saw the Chiinu declaration this week or last week. I was concerned with the Minister for justice's signature on the political declaration in December, which represented a waiver of Ireland's commitments to the ECHR and to the concept of the universality of human rights. Perhaps the Minister has some comments in that regard. It seemed a considerable departure from the entire approach of the Department of foreign affairs to that point. I was really surprised.

Under the joint framework and the dedicated legacy unit for An Garda Síochána, we have heard from the Irish Council for Civil Liberties, ICCL, and the Committee on the Administration of Justice, CAJ, in the North about the new unit, that it will not fulfil the requirements under the ECHR and that a historical investigations unit would be a more appropriate mechanism. Perhaps the Minister would comment on that as well.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I apologise, but I may have to get the Senator to repeat the second question. On the overall compliance of the legislation and the agreed reforms of the legacy Act, we had a strong legal view that the previous legislation was not compliant with the ECHR. That was why, for the very reason we outlined a number of times, we have not engaged with the ICRIR. It is not ECHR compliant. Any of the agreed reforms of the legacy Act will have to be complaint, and will provide that pathway towards the new structure and format being ECHR compliant more generally. Any legislation we would enact and any areas that we need to progress must be ECHR compliant, more broadly, but the reason we were very clear in not supporting the legislation, and the reason why we took the inter-state case, was because it was not ECHR compliant. That is a clear stipulation. There has been a clear commitment from the current UK Government that any legislation it will progress will be ECHR compliant.

Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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I understand that both inter-state cases Ireland has taken were under Article 3. That is why I was particularly concerned at the signature from the Minister for justice on weakening the universality of the protections from torture, degrading and inhumane treatment. I thought that was a major departure considering our two inter-state cases were founded on that article. I found attempts to undermine that confusing and a complete departure from policy.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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While I cannot speak for the Minister for justice, I can say that I know that signature related specifically to particular measures at a European level at the time. That does not in any way change or dilute our overall commitment to human rights and ECHR compliance. That was specific to certain issues that were being discussed at the particular justice committee at the time. They do not in any way dilute that commitment. I reaffirm and stress that from the perspective of my Department and the Government.

Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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I appreciate that. If we politicise the fundamental human rights frameworks for any given context we may be living in, whether in the 1990s, today or where we will be in future times, and if we choose to question the universality of human rights in any political context, we might as well just throw it all up in the air, to a certain extent.

On the piece around the ICCL and the CAJ and their questioning whether it would not be better to go with a historical investigations unit, does the Minister have any thoughts?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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There was a lot of back and forth as to the most appropriate approach to take and the approach that has been proposed is what was settled on as a way that was somewhat new and different, but that would potentially command more support from families, survivors and victims. What you want to ensue is that whatever is implemented has the support of those who it is meant to help.

Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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Absolutely. What about the independence of the investigative measures within that? Are there guarantees around that piece? That was the lynchpin. If it were housed in An Garda Síochána, would it have the necessary independence for survivors and victims?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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That is one issue that has been raised with me. We must work through it as this is developed and established and ensure that any issues arising are addressed immediately. There is an anxiety among family members because we have been here before and have been through this process previously. The most important thing is that they have confidence that any structure established is independent.

We do not know where, when or if this will be established. We hope it will be established as soon as possible. Where challenges emerge or issues arise, we hope to be able to respond to them effectively. The whole approach and intention here is that this is independent and that it is a structure in which families can have confidence and can believe will provide the answers and results we need for them.

Frances Black (Independent)
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I welcome the Minister's candour in acknowledging her disappointment at the slowing pace of the UK's response to the legacy of the Troubles. She used a powerful phrase that will resonate deeply with victims and families. That was "false dawns". They have lived through decade after decade of false dawns. There was the Stormont House Agreement, the Haass talks and the New Decade, New Approach commitments, and there is now the joint framework. This committee has met families who have been waiting for answers for 30 or 40 years. They are getting older and ageing. The concern is that some will not see justice. What they hear from the Government, and I know it is probably meant sincerely, is more of the same language of hope deferred. I know that the Minister has touched on this matter, but I need to hear it from her.

Will the Minister give those families who have waited so long and are listening in today something that they can hold onto and something concrete with a date attached that gives them genuine reason to believe that this time the outcome will be different? Will the Minister say a little bit about that? If the British Government fails to schedule Committee Stage within a defined framework, what are the consequences? At what point is the Irish Government going to conclude that the joint framework is not being implemented in good faith? What leverage do we have? We need to have those consequences.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator. Like her, I have met with family members who have waited decades. I am very confident that they will see their case come to the fore when this new structure is put in place, or their family member's case in many instances. I am extremely concerned that we have seen a slowing down of the legislation. The current legislation is the current legislation that is there, and we do not believe that it is fit for purpose or ECHR compliant and that the ICRIR is a body that we can engage with. At the same time, we need both our own Government and the UK Government to be moving together.

From our side, we give a commitment to establish the Garda unit. That is up and running and has been established. We gave a commitment to progress legislation that would run in parallel and be enacted. That is going to be published in the coming weeks by the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, but he cannot make any further progress until we see that progress in the UK. My priority is to continue to engage directly with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. At all political levels, including the Taoiseach, Tánaiste and others, there is continuous engagement to make sure that people follow through on the commitments that were made. The only way that we stop this from being another false dawn is by people continuing to follow through on their commitments. It is by making sure that the agreement that was reached last September is implemented in full. It is by making sure that the agreement is faithfully reflected in the legislation that is then is implemented and we get this structure up and running as soon as possible so that families can engage with us.

Beyond that, we have the interstate case. That is not to say we are doing that to hang this over people's heads. We have legislation that is not compliant. We need to be very clear that if things do not change and we do not see progress, we will continue with that. That is not the route that anybody wants to take. That is not the route that has us believing that we are in a better position, that we are working together and we are all trying to achieve the same objective. There is a real commitment on the side of the UK Government. It has been difficult, perhaps, in recent weeks and months for different reasons that we can all see. We have had the King's speech. It has been very clearly outlined in it. We have a new term. We have a commitment that this will be brought back into the Houses in the new term. I will be asking the Secretary of State again that we have a date, it is set and we see this progress as quickly as possible. While I cannot give a date to families, we are absolutely committed to progressing on our side. There is a genuine commitment on the UK Government's side, but we have to see that followed through with very clear concrete actions.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Míle buíochas le gach éinne as teacht isteach inniu. The Springhill massacre saw the killing of five people by the British Army: three children, a father and a priest. The inquest was held and concluded just three weeks ago. Since then, the British Government has been completely silent in relation to the outcome of that inquest. I asked the Taoiseach today in the Dáil if he would join me in requesting that the British Government makes an apology for the killing of those individuals all those years ago. Will the Minister join the Taoiseach in asking the British Government to make an apology for those killings? Regarding the Springhill massacre, those soldiers received anonymity. There seems to be no traceability in terms of those soldiers. I understand that they are looking for protections as well from justice. What can the Minister do to make sure that those soldiers receive justice? This is a criminal act in the killing of these innocent civilians.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. This is a matter that he has raised many times. I wish to join him in acknowledging all the families who have been impacted by this massacre on 9 July 1972. I have no doubt that the passage of time has not helped for them in many ways because of the significant impact it has had on their families. The findings of the inquest are fundamentally important for them. At the same time, in both cases families had good reason to not trust the state. In both cases, both pressed hard for the state to clear their names. They waited for a long time. They worked for decades to get these findings. It shows the importance of these inquisitorial processes for families. It highlights the new mechanism we are trying to introduce through the legacy Act, that this is about putting a progress in place like this that will provide answers for families. My understanding is that the coroner has said there is little prospect of any prosecution in these cases. That is one of the challenges of this. I am aware that the families are seeking an apology from the British Government. I am happy to engage with the families in that regard and discuss it further with them. We will need to engage and will want to engage correctly with them.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Will the Minister call on the British Government to apologise?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I am happy to engage with the families and to work with them. I am aware that is something they are seeking and that this has been a very difficult time. The inquest and findings show how important these kinds of structures are, especially as we develop the legacy legislation.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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There is still a problem with the legacy legislation, even as it is agreed in the Framework Document, which is that the Secretary of State for the North of Ireland still has a decision over whether information will come to an inquiry. A politician decides whether there will be a prosecution. I do not think any of us in this room think it is good enough for a politician to decide whether any of our cases would ever be discussed anywhere. That is a problem.

Regarding the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, he or she is being advised by a security service which is, in many cases, the target of criminal cases. There is a circular problem here too. If the security service personnel have committed murders or killings, how are they an independent organisation to be giving advice to a British Secretary of State for the North of Ireland? There is still a problem in relation to that. Hilary Benn has proved he has previous on this. He has practically done everything he can to stop a proper inquiry on behalf of the Brown family in the Sean Brown case. Is it not the case that even if we get this Bill through, it still gives too much power to a politician who is advised by a security service which is the target typically of these investigations?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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It is important to say that any prosecutions will be decided by the public prosecutions office, not by the Secretary of State. The Deputy is referring is the provision of information. That was the decision that was taken. There is a very clear provision about where or if there needed to be changes made to ensure that the right information and adequate information was being provided, that that would be the case. In my previous role in justice, I signed a particular statutory instrument to make sure that appropriate information was being provided through Kenova. There are always ways in which we can ensure that there is that co-operation and exchange of information that is required. There is, again, a level of trust that has to be placed here upon all of us in making sure that the structure we put in place allows for and enables all of the appropriate and correct information to be provided to these cases. Otherwise, there is no trust in the case. The prosecution will not be decided by the Secretary of State.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The Brown family is a case, for example, where the Secretary of State has shown that he has used the courts to try to prevent a proper investigation into that killing.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Again, we have to work on the basis, and this applies both ways, that where there is information that is particularly sensitive and from a security perspective, there is that differentiation, but it should not preclude appropriate information being provided to the body that is being established. In the same way that any other individual case that has happened in recent years, we have to make sure the structure is in place to ensure appropriate information can be provided but there will always be - this applies on both sides - a particular mechanism to ensure where there is security information or there are challenges in providing certain information, a decision can be taken to not provide it.

It should not preclude the appropriate information from being provided that is needed.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister. Deputy Maxwell and I met some loyalist former prisoners last week. They raised very similar things that Coiste na nIarchimí, former republican prisoners, had raised with us about the realities of their everyday living, including problems and issues that continue to arise for them in relation to travel, employment and several other things. Will the Minister look at those issues to see what can be done to tackle those very practical issues? They were raised at the committee previously. They need to be solved. We cannot continue on from one generation to the other. They described to us how their families continue to be impacted and it is 28 years after the Good Friday Agreement. Will the Minister look at that area for both republican and loyalist former prisoners and see what can be done?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I am happy to engage beyond the committee here today.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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If the Minister could and then report back to us, please. Given the growing discussion on constitutional change, what has happened with the First Ministers in Wales and Scotland and other academic and preparatory work, what preparation has the Department done in particular in defence and security? Has the Department conducted scenario planning for defence arrangements in a united Ireland?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Not specific to a united Ireland, but work is and has been under way between our Defence Forces and the UK defence forces, which covers on an all-island basis the sharing of information from a maritime perspective. There is a huge focus on that and a greater level of concern for many people for various reasons be it the shadow fleet, drone activity or subsea cables. That work is happening. My preference is that work be enhanced and we see how to create an even stronger partnership. That would apply on an all-island basis but also on an east-west basis.

More broadly, the political dynamic and the shift and changes at the moment have raised a lot of questions but I do not want to get into other jurisdictions or what may or may not happen. For all of us, there has been and needs to continue to be a focus on how we can work more closely together on an all-island basis and get to a point at some stage where, acknowledging there are newer generations in Northern Ireland who have not known conflict and may have particular views, we have that conversation and put that question to people. We need to continue our work in reconciliation and investing in the shared island fund and reconciliation fund through my Department so that when we get to that point, enough work is done to ensure enough people have benefited from the Good Friday Agreement and we are not still dealing with the Troubles and the legacy of the past. That work should and can happen in tandem. Whether from a security, justice, all-island health, agriculture or energy perspective, a lot of work is happening to make sure we work more closely together. That is positively impacting people's lives in the North which is really what we ultimately want to achieve.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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I certainly commend that work. I am talking about the extra responsibilities for the Minister were there to be a referendum. Regardless of what people's constitutional preference would be, there is a responsibility on whatever Minister and whatever Department but particularly in the Minister's area of defence and security, when people go to vote in a referendum. The Minister said she wants the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement and there is provision within that. Would the Minister consider doing a Green Paper, White Paper or citizens' assembly so that people know what defence and security might look like? There are so many different elements, including parity of esteem within the Good Friday Agreement, personnel, sites, etc. The Minister does not have to answer me now but it is something her Department needs to take very seriously.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Work is already happening. To reassure people, all-island co-operation from a defence perspective is happening not just North-South but east-west as well. My work is to enhance and strengthen that. Beyond that, we all need to be open to looking at the implications should that question be posed and there is a particular outcome, such as from an economic perspective. The Tánaiste said recently he is open to a debate on the economic implications, defence, environment, education and many areas. All of us have to be open to having these discussions and this type of engagement. From a defence perspective, I am open to that.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Claire Hanna was online but I think she is having difficulty accessing it. If she comes in, we will include her. If not, we might record her apologies. I call Ms Eastwood.

Ms Sorcha Eastwood:

I thank the Minister for her responses. The Alliance Party has been leading the way for over 20 years on reform of Stormont. Given the most recent elections across the water, it proves that we cannot take stable, functioning government in Westminster for granted. We are so used to having chaos in Stormont that the last thing we need is compounding chaos in Westminster. That being said, the only durable solution is making sure Stormont is reformed. There is an awful lot of discussion around the sensitivities of it, which I completely understand, appreciate and respect as an MP who represents unionists, nationalists and others, but the Good Friday Agreement was not negotiated when the parties were by themselves. They had support from both Governments and indeed the world. Does the Minister think it is slightly unfair to propose that parties in Northern Ireland are left to discuss amongst themselves and there should from now into the future be a constant facilitated process by both the British and Irish Governments? It would not be to set out or prescribe the changes specifically but to constantly give a parallel process where people have the space and time to come together to discuss what reform will look like.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I am very open to this in terms of Government engagement and Irish Government support for any type of reform. In the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement and how the Executive has operated, all parties coming together to have some form of consensus is the approach I think we would all like to see. It will be good to see the outcome of the work of the committee in the North. A lot of groups have made their positions known or put forward specific proposals. There are three in particular which have been mainly put out but there are other options as well. I do not want to pre-empt the outcome of that but there is a willingness on our side to work constructively with all of the parties. It is not to enforce the Irish Government's view or position but to work constructively and help create a platform whereby reform and change could take place. I have spoken to the Secretary of State about this on a number of occasions. I believe support would be required by the UK Government as well if we are to bring this to a particular point. There is an openness and willingness to engage. It needs to be done in a way such that many people are on board or are happy with process. The start is the committee and the work being done at the moment.

Without pre-empting that, I think it will give us a clear indication of where people are and what the possible options might be.

Ms Sorcha Eastwood:

My second question is about ending violence against women and girls. The Minister mentioned that this would now be a standing item on the agenda. Will she talk a little about what that looks like and what it means in practice? Are any arrangements in place for data sharing and making sure women are safe no matter where they are on the island and that the Border does not interfere with keeping women and children safe?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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That was a particular topic of discussion at the recent meeting we had. Particular cases are coming to the fore where people have lived and worked either side of, or have been crossing, the Border and in some instances have evaded An Garda Síochána or the PSNI in respect of the violent actions or abuse that has taken place. Therefore, there is a commitment between the Minister, Naomi Long MLA, and the Minister, Deputy Jim O'Callaghan, and between the PSNI and An Garda Síochána, to explore ways in which there could be greater information sharing in this regard. This builds on a lot of work that has been done in recent years, learning from one another. When our domestic, sexual and gender-based violence strategy was published, we worked closely with the Government and Minister in the North to see whether there were areas where we could learn from what was happening in the North and vice versa. There has been a lot of engagement about where certain actions we have taken can be replicated in the North.

A tangible area in which there has been a lot of co-operation and engagement is around human trafficking. This is an issue that knows no borders or boundaries. It is pervasive and is happening on a much more regular basis, be it for sexual exploitation or any other type of human trafficking. Work is happening on a cross-Border basis between An Garda Síochána and the PSNI to help to identify victims and make sure people cannot evade detection or prosecution because of the Border. What is important now, because this naturally became an agenda item of the North-South Ministerial Council - and has now become a permanent item - is to make sure that, where we identify an issue, we make progress and at the next meeting can show that progress and look at what we can do next. This is an all-island issue. It is a global issue. We all need to respond to it in a collective manner and the progress made recently highlights that there is a real commitment on both sides.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for that important response. I am conscious of time. We have about 20 minutes left. That should be enough for the remaining four members.

Niall Blaney (Fianna Fail)
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The Minister is welcome. I am conscious that Mr. Finucane and Mr. Hughes have been here often, but it is Ms Eastwood's first meeting, so she is welcome. Her predecessor, Mr. Stephen Farry, was a strong contributor to this committee. The diversity of opinion is good for the committee and will be into the future, so I hope to see her at many more meetings.

In the early part of the Minister's contribution, she referred to the IFI. I commend the Government on helping to get that IFI funding back on board. It is particularly important. It has delivered many strong projects in the Border region. It has served its purpose from the point of view of peace, not to mention projects such as taking children out of conflict areas to the United States, Europe or just south of the Border. There has been great work in the past.

I also welcome the approach by the Government to legacy. It is a difficult area. There have been many attempts by many people over the years. Whatever decisions are taken - sometimes, people taking them will have a lump in the back of their throats - I have no doubt that there is an imperative at this stage on both Governments to take those hard decisions. It is similar to the times of the Good Friday Agreement. The time has come when we have to fight hard and do what is necessary. It will not please everyone. I wish the Minister well in that regard.

I welcome the approach to the Omagh bombing inquiry. It is smart. The approach taken will discover the greatest amount of evidence and perhaps pave the way for other inquiries and to deal with issues around legacy and the past, so that is welcome.

I welcome the approach to reform in Stormont. There are many issues and one in particular that affects the north west is the A5. The taking down of Stormont affected that in the past and the stumbling over it now is affecting it again. There are other issues across Northern Ireland where there is paralysis. There has to be reform, and I welcome the approach.

In terms of North-South relations, I would like to see us going further. As alluded to by Deputy Maxwell, we will have the North-South gathering on Friday. The Speaker of the Assembly and the Ceann Comhairle of the Dáil were at that forum. I will be proposing the we have a North-South set-up similar to the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, namely, a North-South parliamentary assembly, because if we are to have a shared island, we have to have much better relations between politicians North and South. The British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly has served us well since the 1990s. There are too many politicians now North and South who do not know one another and when they do not have that intense knowledge, it is hard for people on the ground to have it. It is one of the small steps we could take in the future.

I would like to hear the Minister's views on some of that.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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On the IFI, I acknowledge my officials and team who have worked to make sure the commitment by the US Government is reinstated. It would be a devastating blow to the overall fund. We will continue to provide our funding to it, particularly as it has been contributing enormously to the community for 40 years. We will continue to work with the US and other contributors.

The Northern Ireland Minister is appealing the decision on the A5 and remains committed to the overall project. We have a commitment of €600 million and that will remain in place. We have to go through this process unfortunately but I appreciate the importance of the project. Everyone involved wants to see it progress as quickly as possible and the commitment of funding will remain in place.

On the Omagh bombing, we have been clear. The legislation that the Minister, Deputy Jim O'Callaghan, is bringing through at the moment is being brought forward to ensure that whatever information needs to be provided through An Garda Síochána to the inquiry can be provided. We are clear that legislation will be enacted as soon as possible and will not in any way delay the proceedings. We are also clear - this is raised regularly - that if there is a need subsequent to the current hearing for the Irish Government to progress something beyond that, we are not against doing so, but a twin-track process, as has been asked for, or something happening here at the same time would dilute the focus and importance of the inquiry. However, we have always said we would be open to anything needed beyond the current inquiry. The most important thing at the moment is that our legislation be enacted and that there be a mechanism whereby information and evidence can be provided as quickly as possible.

The Senator is right about the parliamentary assembly. It comes back to everything we have been talking about. Relationships matter. Engagement with people matters. Getting to know people and to understand our challenges, opportunities, shared objectives and goals only happens when there is people-to-people contact. The Senator's suggestion to have that from a parliamentary perspective on a North-South basis would be good and helpful and would only enhance the overall relationship.

Noel McCarthy (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minster and her officials and thank her for her opening statement. Most questions have been asked, but I will make reference to the reconciliation fund. I have read about the success of it and €8 million being made available this year is good, and it is being increased year on year. Are there applications to it? Is there a good take-up? Are people availing of it in a good way?

I also read that sport was being looked at. Why is sport not in it? Are there complications with sport being involved in it? Is sport being considered? What are the criteria of the fund? We need to say it is a great fund and its continuation is important for north and south of the Border.

I compliment the Minister on increasing the budget year by year. The €8 million being provided north and south of the Border is a lot of money.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I opened up the most recent reconciliation fund in March. I had the opportunity to travel to St. Peter's youth centre and to meet many of the organisations that have benefited since the fund opened. The process is now closed and approximately 200 applications have come in. The Department is currently going through the applications. I hope we will be able to announce the first tranche in the coming weeks and some of the larger and longer term projects later on. The fund is built on four key themes, namely, legacy and learning, participation and partnership, culture, language and identity, and innovation and connection.

To respond to the Deputy's question about sport, last year, 31 projects were funded across academia, education and research, with 21 funded in 2024. In arts and culture, there were a large number of projects, and there were civic groups projects, community projects, and legacy. There were 17 sporting projects and 21 in 2024, so they are getting funding. I anticipate that they will get funding in the next round too. I met a number of groups at the St. Peter's centre who are specifically focused on sport and how it can bring communities together.

I visited St. Malachy's College, which has a particular programme in place. I do not know if you would call it sport, but there are computers. I do not know how to describe it. It was computer ball, and involved two classes from two different schools in two different communities coming together to play each other and to be on the same teams. It is an electronic ball, and you have to do it by coding. It is fantastic and it was a way for sport, coding and electronics to bring people together who would not naturally have been together or met in that way. I saw the impact it had and the way young boys were engaging with each other. It was fantastic. There are also youth projects.

In those few examples, we see how the fund is targeting young people. That is really important. The projects and funding we apply in the next round will be looking at young people and young communities, addressing challenges that still exist, but doing it in a way that is different and brings people together and focuses on what connects them as opposed to their differences. That has been the success of the fund. I want to see that continue so the fund has increased by €1 million this year. I will advocate for having more money allocated to it in the budget.

Noel McCarthy (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for her reply. It is good to hear that young people are being brought together. There is no better thing that sport, culture and language and so on. She gave great examples of it, and it is encouraging to see.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I probably did not explain it very well.

Noel McCarthy (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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It is good and easy to understand. I compliment the Minister and thank her and her officials again.

Mr. Dáire Hughes:

I thank the Minister for her contribution thus far. I start by associating myself entirely with and reinforcing the concerns of my colleague with regard to the political trajectory of Westminster in respect of legacy. It is a situation that requires the utmost diligence, in observing and monitoring to ensure there is no regression on the joint framework, as established.

I have questions on the separate issue of Irish passport holders in the North. As the Minister is aware, holding an Irish passport in the North is one of the few ways, in the context of formal engagement with this State, that we in the North can express our citizenship. There has been huge growth in the numbers applying for and holding Irish passports in the North. I think over 120,000 were applied for in 2024 alone. Does the Minister agree that the opening of a passport office in the North is now called for, given that it would provide an essential service to citizens there? It would take the pressure off Dublin and Cork at peak times. It could more easily service citizens in the north west. A precedent for having a passport office outside of the jurisdiction has been set, with the London office dealing with an Irish population in London of approximately 150,000. There are over 600,000 Irish passport holders in the North. We know the public-facing job of a passport office is to deal almost exclusively with urgent renewals and emergency applications. Having that service provided in the North could be very useful. I am also aware that Oireachtas Members have a dedicated hotline or route to deal with Department of foreign affairs officials in respect of passport applications. Given the figures I have just quoted, could that same service be extended to MPs and MLAs in the North?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Hughes and note his comments on legacy. I reaffirm our commitment to progressing that as quickly as possible. I am working closely with the Secretary of State to highlight the need for progress.

On the issue of passports, we are on the whole moving towards a more online system. That includes London where the office has since been closed because everything is moving online. We are encouraging people to apply for passports online because it is quicker. If an application is not for a child's first passport, once received, it can be turned round and the passport will be in the applicant's letterbox within four or five days, if not quicker in some instances. The vast majority of passports are being applied for online. The number of passports applied for by citizens in Northern Ireland is 11.6% of the total, so it is a not a small figure. However, 91% of those are being applied for online already. That is 9% of 11.6% who are not applying online. I will be trying to encourage that final percentage to apply online. Not only is it easier for the passport office, but it is a quicker process for people. I will be honest that at the moment there are no plans to open a new office. We have closed other ones because of our move online, but I am happy to engage with Mr. Hughes on the possibility of a direct line, and whether the Oireachtas line could be made available or if there are other options to support people. I am happy to look at that.

Mr. Dáire Hughes:

I appreciate the Minister's comment on a direct line, which would be useful. While the drift is very much towards online applications, it is worth noting that the public function of the passport office is for emergency applications or urgent renewals, so there is a requirement for that facility. I do not expect the Minister to have figures on hand. For the appointments managed by the offices in Dublin and Cork, it would be useful to know what the percentages are for citizens residing in the North.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I think about 2% are in-person in Dublin, but I can get other figures on presentations.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister in her opening remarks dealt extensively with legacy and mentioned the North-South Ministerial Council meeting on 8 May. In light of the statement of the Northern Ireland Secretary of State on amendments, do we have any idea yet what amendments are being proposed? Did that come up in her discussions with him and, if so, can she divulge that?

For the shared island civic society fund of €5 million, the Minister highlighted that there are 171 projects and an additional €6 million had been allocated to it for 2025 to 2027. Is there a round open currently and, if so, what is the deadline for that? She mentioned the pilot project for diaspora voices. If she does not have time or a note on it, will she send one to the committee about that? It sounds like an exciting project and pilot scheme.

The Minister mentioned the 30th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement. Are there plans in the Department to mark that milestone? Has that come up in discussions in the North-South Ministerial Council or with the Minister's counterparts in Westminster? I ask because she will be aware that this committee has a conference as part of the European Presidency. We requested that from the Oireachtas and we have been successful in that request. As we discuss the successes of the Good Friday Agreement, along with the challenges that remain such as legacy and others, it would be good to hear if there are plans by the Department or the Government to mark the 30th anniversary. I thank the Minister for her answers to the questions asked and for her presence this evening.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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We do not have sight of any specific amendments at the moment. My engagement has centred on the fact that any amendments brought forward must apply equally to everybody.

They must not specify or single out any one group of people. That has been very much accepted and taken on board by the Secretary of State. Any amendments or anything further that go beyond that, such as amnesties, which have been very much ruled out by the UK Government, would not be accepted by anybody, not just the Irish Government. I have been given those assurances and I have no doubt that, when it gets to committee stage in the UK and amendments are being brought forward, we will have sight of them then.

At the moment, the closing date for applications is 2 June. I encourage people to encourage others to put their applications in because it is a really important fund on a cross-Border basis.

More broadly, there is not that detailed development of what we might do to recognise the 30th anniversary, but it will certainly be part of our overall planning and focus, not just within the Government but working with the institutions. It would be good to have discussions with the committee as well on how we could mark it on a cross-party basis and North and South. I am very happy to engage with the committee on that.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Could I ask about the Diaspora Vision pilot?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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If I can, I will come back to the Chair on that.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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That would be great, if the Minister would not mind. On behalf of the committee, I thank her very much for her engagement this evening. It was a large opening statement. She has not been here in her new role.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I will keep the next one short.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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We appreciate it. I thank the Minister for her engagement. Gabhaim buíochas. That concludes this evening's public meeting. This committee stands adjourned until Tuesday, 26 May at 6 p.m.