John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Members are all very welcome to today's meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts. We have received apologies from Deputy Paul Murphy. I have a few housekeeping matters to go through.

Members are reminded of the provisions of Standing Order 226, whereby the committee shall refrain from inquiring into the merits of a policy or policies of the Government or a Minister of the Government, or the merits of the objectives of such policies. Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I remind members of the constitutional requirement that in order to participate in public meetings, members must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex. Members of the committee attending remotely must do so from within the precincts of Leinster House.

The agenda for today is to discuss the minutes, accounts and statements, correspondence and forthcoming meetings. We will suspend the meeting thereafter for the engagement with officials from the National Treasury Management Agency.

The minutes of the meetings of 30 April and 7 May were agreed by the committee in private session and these will be published on the committee's website in due course.

Two sets of accounts and financial statements were laid between 5 and 8 May 2026, and they are due to be considered today. We are joined by the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, who is a permanent witness to the committee. I will ask him to address these before I open the floor to members.

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

First we have the accounts of the Market Cap Fund for the period of account 1 October 2024 to 30 September 2025. Those received a clear audit opinion. I remind members of the committee that I presented a chapter in last September's report relating to the Market Cap Fund, which is due for consideration shortly by the committee. The second set of financial statements presented are the accounts of the receipt of revenue of the State collected by the Revenue Commissioners for 2025. They received a clear audit opinion.

Last week I mentioned that most of the 2024 audited financial statements have been presented. We have looked back on any that are outstanding. A total of 11 outstanding that had been signed were awaiting presentation. On inquiry, two of them have been subsequently presented, and I will mention those next week, so there are a further nine signed and awaiting presentation. Four of them are quite late. They were signed between April and July of last year. That includes the Carbon Fund account, which has been presented. There are two subsidiaries of the Land Development Agency for which the financial statements have not been presented but the main group accounts have been presented. The final one there is the export guarantee account for 2024, which is actually a nil account. There are no transactions but it has not been presented. This leaves five more that should be coming through in subsequent weeks.

Two sets of financial statements have not yet been certified. They are both North-South bodies. They have both been cleared and are due for certification. Again, they will present in due course.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Do members agree to note the listing of accounts and financial statements? Agreed.

Moving on to correspondence, there are a number of B items of correspondence to consider. They have been received from Departments and public bodies. No. R2026/0237 is correspondence dated 5 May 2026 received from Mr. Doncha O'Sullivan, Secretary General of the Department of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration, responding to the committee's request for further information regarding international protection accommodation. I will make a comment. This information relates to a question I had asked about legal cases against the Department relating to contracts or suppliers of accommodation where contracts or agreements had been ended, and what litigation cases have been taken. The correspondence states that five cases have been taken, three of which are still before the court and two of which have been settled. The correspondence does not get into detail as to how many have been resolved through mediation, which is a question we need to ask. We also need to establish how many are at pre-litigation stage as well. The correspondence talks about the commercial sensitivity regarding the three live cases, which we need to comply with. Two cases have been settled. It would be of value to get sight of what the settlement has been. The media coverage to date suggest that these are very large sums. In some cases, it is alleged that up to €6 million had been spent on some accommodation after agreement with the Department on repairing and carrying out capital works on properties and then the contracts did not proceed and ultimately were terminated, even though those pre-letting works had been carried out. It is important to get a line of sight on what those settlements look like and what provision has been made by the Department for any other potential liabilities on those other three cases. Is it agreed that we follow this course of action? Agreed. Is it agreed to note and publish this item? Agreed.

No. R2026/0239 is correspondence received from the chairperson of the Office of Public Works, which provides an update on the Hammond Lane project and the residential property portfolio of the OPW, dated 5 May 2026. This follows on from concerns with regard to a number of residential properties the OPW holds. A lot of those are in the Phoenix Park, including the former Garda Commissioner residence, which will be 12 months vacant come September. Given the huge expenditure in carrying out the work for that property, that is completely unacceptable. The OPW tells us that a review is going on and that it will be quarter 2 or quarter 3 before that review is completed. That review will include the rent charged for tenants in some of the OPW properties. I wish to express my concern about the time this is taking. If they are saying it is quarter 2, then we need to get a line of sight of that as quickly as possible to see what resolution will found around occupying that property and the other properties in the Phoenix Park and elsewhere. It is totally unacceptable at any time but particularly in the midst of a housing crisis. It is important that we get this information and that the review is carried out as quickly as possible. Is it agreed that we follow up on this, note and publish the item? Agreed.

We will move on to the work programme. On 21 May, the committee is due to engage with officials from the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment, with representatives from the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, the Department of Culture, Communications and Sport, along with the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation.

With regard to any other business, are there any other items the members wish to raise at this point?

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Am I allowed to raise RTÉ under any other business?

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Yes.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Correspondence C includes correspondence dated 27 April 2026 in relation to RTÉ sending 41 delegates to the World Cup qualifier match in Czechia. I would like us to write to RTÉ and ask them if this did actually happen. I would be very concerned if it did happen given that RTÉ is party to a 2024 agreement with the Government under which it received €225 million in 2025, €240 million in 2026 and will get €260 million in 2027. Every household in the country is paying €160 per year for a TV licence, which is another tax on householders. I ask that we write to RTÉ to ask if this actually did happen. They should be very concerned in relation to this if 41 delegates were sent to a World Cup game in Czechia. How does this qualify? It is not good spending of public funds that have been given to them. We should get a letter back from RTÉ stating whether they did or did not do this.

I would also be very interested to hear what the Comptroller and Auditor General has to say on why RTÉ is not subject to audit by the Comptroller and Auditor General. Is the Government not ensuring that this happens when €725 million is being given from Government funds to RTÉ over three years? I believe that the Comptroller and Auditor General should be auditing the RTÉ accounts. I know there is a directive from the Government and maybe the Comptroller and Auditor General could speak to that please.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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On that point, a lot of members here, and on the previous Committee of Public Accounts, will be aware that one of the recommendations following the lengthy engagement with RTÉ was that RTÉ would be brought under the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General.

I believe that the heads of Bill are being prepared to allow that to happen. The delay is frustrating and I concur this is something that needs to happen with immediate effect. Perhaps the Comptroller and Auditor General may wish to comment on that.

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

No. It is obviously a matter for legislation to make me the auditor of RTÉ. My understanding is that the heads of Bills are in preparation.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We might ensure that it is a priority. Can the committee write to ensure that is progressed as fast as possible?

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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We can write asking for an update on the legislation. It was agreed during the private session that we would write to RTÉ to ask for a breakdown of the RTÉ personnel and contractors who were sent to provide coverage, and to get clarity on what platforms and analysis were carried out.

Cathy Bennett (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Thank you.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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That is agreed. Are there any other members on AOB? No.

During the private session, we agreed to seek clarity on the decision to send the heads of eight schools to Aruba, off the coast of Venezuela in the Caribbean, to attend a week-long training retreat on diversity, inclusion and mindfulness, which was organised by Dublin and Dún Laoghaire Education and Training Board. To me, to send anyone on a mindfulness or inclusivity training event 7,000 miles away in the Caribbean raises a lot of concerns. The cost of this was over €28,000. Questions need to be asked. The ETB may say that European funding covered the cost of this. Irrespective of that, money was spent. It is totally unacceptable. If it was deemed necessary to have a mindfulness, inclusivity and diversity training event, there are plenty of good retreats in the State and in County Wicklow. It has been agreed that we follow up on that.

James Geoghegan (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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I agree with the Chair that the spending on this seems excessive and the location, frankly, ridiculous. However, it is important to acknowledge for the record that the article, in fairness to the Daily Mail that reported it, based on freedom of information requests, makes clear that all of the funding came from the EU Erasmus+ programme, which is not money that came from Irish taxpayers. We contribute to it but so does the whole of the European Union. The Erasmus+ programme seems to have a very large budget in Europe and I would have thought that the appropriate place for this to be properly examined would be the European Court of Auditors or whatever the relevant supervisory authority is. Perhaps an Irish MEP might take up this issue. It probably is not a matter that will come back to this Committee of Public Accounts because it does not appear to relate to any moneys spent by either of the ETBs identified.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Do any members wish to comment? No. Earlier we discussed the matter and it was agreed that we would write to them seeking clarity on the issue. Irrespective, we are a net contributor now to the EU and ultimately Irish money is involved in some format. It is taxpayers' money and questions need to be asked.

Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I fully agree that we need to ask questions. Even if the money is 100% European funding, the fact is they were relieved of their duties while they were on this trip, so there is a time in lieu issue. Obviously, they were out of the office. That, in itself, is an important issue that we need to probe. Did any funding have to be supplemented by the ETB? It absolutely merits questioning.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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During private session, we dealt with another item that concerned the NTA. There are lot of outstanding answers required from the NTA. A question I asked it previously related to a park-and-ride facility that been constructed at Fassaroe, County Wicklow, at a cost of several hundred thousand euro. While the project was completed last year, it remains unused and unoccupied. Indeed, contractors have been on site to put up further security to ensure the site remains locked up. We need clarity on when it will be brought into use and the cost of it to date.

There are concerns that despite a lot of groundwork having been carried out, such as ducting for facilities on site at an immense cost, that aspect of the work has been dropped, even though a lot of the work had been carried out. There were also to be 42 electric vehicle charging points on site. Again, a lot of the work, such as ducting, etc, has been put on site but plans for a substation to bring those into use appear to have been sidelined or scrapped. A lot of work and expense has gone into this, but there is no clarity when it comes to the project much to the frustration of commuters who eagerly await completion. There is zero clarity on the buses that will serve the park-and-ride facility if or when it eventually is opened. We will follow up and get specific detail from the NTA on that. That was also agreed.

I will now suspend the meeting for five minutes to facilitate the arrival of our next set of witnesses.