Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Wednesday, 29 April 2026
Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate, Environment and Energy
Building Climate Resilience and Flood Risk Adaptation: Discussion
2:00 am
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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No apologies have been received.
Before we start, I welcome to the Public Gallery a group of young secondary school environmentalists from County Kildare. They are the Celbridge youth environmental action group. They are all very welcome.
I welcome the following representatives to the meeting. From the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment, we have: Mr. Barry Quinlan, assistant secretary; Ms Gráinne Uí Thuama, principal officer; and Mr. Seosamh Ó Laoi, higher executive officer. From the Office of Public Works, OPW, we have: Mr. Robert Mooney, assistant secretary, flood risk management strategy and estate capital programme services; Mr. Jim Casey, director for flood risk management capital programme delivery and operations; and Mr. Mark Adamson, assistant chief engineer for risk management and climate adaptation services.
I remind everybody in attendance to ensure their mobile phones are either on silent or switched off.
Before I invite people to present their opening statements, I wish to advise everybody of the following in relation to parliamentary privilege. Witnesses and members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make any charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction, please.
The format of the meeting is that I will invite witnesses to make opening statements of a maximum of five minutes each. Once those statements have been delivered, I will call members of the committee, in the order in which they have indicated to me, to put their questions. The committee operates a rota system that provides each member with an initial five minutes to engage with witnesses. It is important to note that the five minutes is for both questions and answers and, therefore, it is essential for members to put their questions succinctly and for witnesses to be succinct in their responses. Please note that the duration of this meeting is limited and, therefore, the times must be strictly adhered to. I ask everybody to please be focused in their contributions.
I propose that we take the opening statements, with the Department first and the OPW second. I invite the witnesses to make their opening statements.
Mr. Barry Quinlan:
I thank the Cathaoirleach and good afternoon to everybody. I am the assistant secretary in the climate and environment division of the Department. I am joined today by my colleagues, Gráinne Uí Thuama and Seosamh Ó Laoi, both of whom have been working on the national adaptation policy for some time.
I thank the committee for the invitation to speak and the opportunity to outline our national climate change adaptation policy, which is overseen and co-ordinated by the Department, working closely with sectorally responsible Departments and Ministries, local authorities, Met Éireann, the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, and the Climate Change Advisory Council, CCAC.
As members will be aware, the effects of climate change are manifest and increasing. Ireland has a two-pronged response of mitigating to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and adaptation to deal with the effects of our changing climate. A whole-of-government approach is needed to protect Ireland’s present and future generations from the increasing effects of climate change that we can all see.
The latest national adaptation framework, NAF, has been developed by our Department and Minister. It sets out Ireland’s overall strategy to build resilience to the impacts of climate change and was approved by the Government and published in 2024. The NAF contains key actions to increase Ireland’s resilience to climate change, including: climate data and projections, an action that is led by Met Éireann, with which we work very closely; improved understanding of climate impact risks through the development of Ireland’s first national climate change risk assessment, NCCRA, on which we worked very closely with the EPA and which was published in June 2025; and the development of sectoral adaptation plans, SAPs, which are led by the various Ministers and Departments with responsibility.
The SAPS are informed by that standardised information from Met Éireann and the EPA in terms of the future weather scenarios and risks they entail. Last year, 13 SAPs were developed under our Department's guidelines, approved by the Government and published. The approved SAPs, informed by national climate data, describe and assess the risks posed by climate change to each sector, for instance, the OPW, representatives of which area with us today, and present action plans to address these risks and ensure climate resilience within the sector. Ownership of SAPs is established in the climate Act at the level of individual line Ministers responsible for each sector. Relevant Departments are responsible for preparing, implementing and monitoring sectoral adaptation plans under their remit. Among the plans approved last year was a flood risk management SAP prepared by the OPW, which contains measures to better integrate climate adaptation considerations into national flood risk management policy co-ordinated by the OPW.
The OPW has a significantly mature approach to climate adaptation and recognising the need to account for future climate conditions in its work. The CCAC independently assesses SAPs using a scorecard approach and notes that the OPW is actively addressing climate risks through prevention, protection and preparedness measures. My colleagues from the OPW will, I am sure, cover that point in detail.
Local authority climate action plans published by each local authority in 2023 under the climate Act also contain adaptation actions and many of them reference actions related to OPW flood relief schemes, recognising the challenges faced by local communities and the importance of delivery of flood relief schemes as part of the adaptation measures to be delivered by the State.
The national adaptation steering committee, NASC, is the front-line co-ordination forum for climate change adaptation. The NASC meets at least quarterly and includes representation from across the Government, the EPA, Met Éireann, local authority climate action regional offices, CAROs, climate action regional offices and the CCAC. The adaptation policy team in my division manages the agenda and chairs the forum, ensuring cross-cutting standardisation.
As part of the overall enhanced governance structures put in place to drive climate action and implementation, a new high-level task force on adaptation has been established, which I chair. The new task force reports into the climate action programme board and the delivery board, which is now chaired by the Minister. The new task force held its first meeting in January. It will work with existing delivery structures, providing a high-level forum for these bodies to come together to monitor progress and assess and address systemic risks and barriers to adaptation. National adaptation policy is focused on increasing Ireland's resilience to climate change impacts over the medium to longer term, using best practice in data gathering and analysis to inform consistent and high-quality SAPs.
The management of floods and other national emergencies falls under the remit of the national emergency co-ordination group, which brings together Departments, local authorities, State agencies, etc. While the remit of our division in the Department does not extend to responding to emergencies, we are linked in with the relevant parts of our Department that do respond. We are also linked to external bodies, such as the Government task force on emergency planning, to ensure that evolving positions in this important area are factored into adaptation policy, going forward. The task force is looking across all sectors, including nature-based solutions. While nature-based solutions are currently considered as part of flood scheme design, the potential for broader application of nature-based solutions will be a focus in the year ahead, as will feedback from the CCAC scorecard process. Representatives of the CCAC would have written to the Government about the scorecard. We will be taking that into consideration in the work of the task force.
Climate change is happening and is being felt by people and communities across the country. It is important that we adapt effectively while doing all we can to mitigate further climate change. I welcome the committee's interest in this important topic and look forward to our discussions.
Mr. Robert Mooney:
I thank the committee for the invitation to appear today to discuss building climate resilience through flood risk adaptation.
Flooding is a natural process that can happen at any time in a wide variety of locations. It is a significant risk to people, the economy and our environment and cultural heritage. The Government's flood risk management policy is centred on three strategic pillars, namely, prevention, protection and preparedness, which are underpinned by evidence-based flood risk assessment. Managing Ireland's flood risk is a long-term commitment, requiring a cross-government and cross-sectoral approach, through both capital infrastructural measures and non-infrastructural measures.
The committee will be aware that the Government has allocated €1.3 billion to the OPW for flood risk management under the national development plan, NDP, to 2030. The OPW has invested some €580 million in 56 completed flood relief schemes. These schemes are protecting 13,580 properties nationwide and provide an economic benefit in damages avoided, estimated to be in the region of €2 billion. There are some 100 schemes at design, planning or construction at this time. They are being delivered in partnership with local authorities. This is a key action of the protection pillar of flood risk management policy.
It is projected that climate change will have a significant impact on flooding and flood risk in Ireland due to rising sea levels, increased rainfall in winter, more heavy rain days and more intense storms. Recent attribution studies have shown that climate change is already impacting flood events. Therefore, while it is critical that current flood risk be addressed, Ireland must also be prepared to deal with and manage the increased flood risk arising from climate change. Following consultation with the public and other stakeholders, the third Climate Change Sectoral Adaptation Plan for Flood Risk Management 2025-2030 was approved by the Government and published in November 2025. The plan, which builds on previous plans, sets out how the State will manage increasing flood risk and the actions needed to adapt flood risk management practices for effective and efficient future outcomes and build resilience to increased flood risk in Ireland. It is shaped by an overarching long-term vision and goal as well as adaptation objectives, with a total of 27 targeted actions under the adaptation objectives. These span the key areas of flood risk prevention, protection and preparedness, underpinned by research and capacity building and informed by the NCCRA.
As outlined by my colleague from the Department, the OPW is part of the governance structures working on national climate policy with colleagues from the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment and other colleagues across the Government. The OPW's flood mapping programme includes the preparation of flood maps for possible future scenarios as well as present day conditions, taking account of the potential impacts of climate change. In this context, the OPW has comprehensive national information of potential future flooding from rivers and the sea. As well as informing where flood relief measures may be required, the flood maps are an essential support to sustainable planning and development management, and the effective implementation of the statutory guidelines on planning and flood risk management, which is a key aspect of the prevention pillar.
Under the protection pillar, all new and ongoing major flood relief scheme projects require the preparation of a scheme adaptation plan such that the design and implementation of the scheme takes the potential impacts of climate change into account. For example, it may be that foundations for schemes being built now are designed to accommodate increases in the height of flood defences in the future. Furthermore, the development of flood relief schemes requires a specific assessment of the potential for nature-based solutions as part of the overall approach to managing flood risk for a particular community. A programme of work is also in hand and is due for completion in 2029 to prepare scheme adaptation plans for those flood relief schemes that were completed prior to 2019.
The third flood policy pillar, the preparedness pillar, includes actions and measures that can be taken to reduce the consequences of flooding, for example, by raising awareness among the public about preparing for the risk of flooding and taking appropriate actions before, during and after a flood event. This encompasses flood emergency planning and emergency management, the guidelines and protocols for which are developed under the major emergency management framework and the various humanitarian responses to support communities and businesses. The ongoing development of the national flood forecasting and warning service will also improve the State's ability to prepare for and respond to floods. For severe weather events, including flooding, co-ordination at a national level is provided through the national emergency co-ordination group, with the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage the designated lead Department.
The committee will be aware that progress on the delivery of all of the SAPs is assessed annually by the independent CCAC. Progress with regard to the flood risk management sector has been identified by the council as being good overall in each of the assessments undertaken since the assessments commenced in 2021.
I thank the committee for the opportunity to speak and we welcome members' questions.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I thank our witnesses for their opening statements. I now invite members in the order they have indicated to engage with witnesses.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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We know about the CFRAM scheme and the resources there. I ask Mr. Mooney to indicate the balance there in terms of interventions focused on a catchment area approach, that wider approach, versus isolated, specific infrastructure, because it does still seem that that is very much the approach. What we seem to see is that very specific infrastructure at a particular point, sometimes downstream from where the problem is coming from, rather than that catchment approach. I have a few other questions relating to that.
Are nature-based solutions considered as the first and preferred option? There is a very detailed theory of the many co-benefits to nature-based solutions but are those co-benefits actually weighed up in a cost-benefit analysis when it comes to the hard question of where the money is going to be spent and what the intervention will be?
Around that wider stream, Mr. Mooney is very aware of the many critiques of the arterial drainage legislation that we have and the gaps which are there now. Are those systems represented in flood mapping as hydrological modifiers? Where we have water being taken out of the land - and we know we need flood plains to absorb water - what is that doing in terms of flood modification? Specifically with regard to things like the CAP schemes and some of the drainage and supports, what is being done to look at how that fits into the water piece?
The very last thing is the water quality piece. What are the alignments in terms of the water framework directive and quality issues? Can there be more alignment there? Is that part of the assessment when the Office of Public Works is considering its options in relation to flood defence?
Mr. Jim Casey:
I thank the Senator for her question. She asked if nature-based solutions are given a prominent consideration in the design of flood relief schemes. "Yes" is the answer to that. The design of all flood relief schemes will require specific consideration to be given to nature-based solutions as a means of mitigating the flood risk. We carry out a fairly rigorous assessment of the upper catchment and to what extent we have potential there to incorporate nature-based solutions as either the solution or part of the solution to the problem. Midleton is an example of where we have carried out that assessment. The conclusion of that work was that in that particular location and catchment, nature-based solutions would not resolve the problem. However, they would be part of the solution and more likely incorporated into the adaptation stage of the project, post-construction of the initial scheme, as part of the scheme adaptation thereafter.
Mr. Mark Adamson:
I thank the Senator for the question. There are plenty of research and pilot projects, particularly internationally, which have shown that nature-based measures certainly can reduce flood peaks. These projects are typically undertaken in small catchments and have been demonstrated with regards to relatively small floods. There are some limitations and questions around the general application. Not all types of measures are applicable in all areas, so we need to make sure the measure is suitable for a particular context. For larger catchments, they have not been demonstrated at that scale. There is also a practical issue, in that in order to be effective in the large catchments we could be talking about hundreds if not thousands of interventions, which would require extensive landowner engagement.
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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I know we are going to come back to nature-based solutions but the specific question I had on arterial drainage was whether it is mapped as a hydrological modifier in relation to floods? Also for water quality, is that incorporated into the planning in terms of assessment of flood relief schemes?
Mr. Mark Adamson:
There are some limitations around nature-based measures, particularly in relation to big floods. It is unlikely they will be the solution but they can be part of it, particularly in relation to climate adaptation. We recognise the multiple benefits. For example, we are working with the Local Authority Waters Programme, LAWPRO, actively. LAWPRO is a body set up for the implementation of the water framework directive specifically to look at a project that can address both flood risk and water quality issues jointly, in a single project.
In relation to arterial drainage and flood risk assessment, the arterial drainage network is taken into account in what is called the flood studies update. That is a hydrological research programme that has developed methodologies for estimating floods, and that takes account of whether that catchment is drained or not.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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In regards to water quality?
Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent)
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Is it part of the assessment standard? I know there may be a scheme. I am trying to see where does the water quality impact assessment come in when the Office of Public Works is deciding what it will do in Midleton, for example.
Mr. Mark Adamson:
The nature-based measures overall and their various multiple benefits are considered as part of the development of a flood relief scheme. As I said, we are developing a project jointly with LAWPRO to address that. It may be that a better multi-sectoral approach could be applied in terms of looking at nature-based measures in order that the sectors work together jointly. We are trying to test that through LAWPRO
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I thank our witnesses for coming in today. I represent Dublin South-West, where we had a number of issues recently with floods around Grange Park, the Whitechurch stream and down Nutgrove Avenue and places like that. At the top of my mind is the flood alleviation scheme on Whitechurch Road. There is a lot of concrete there. While we are talking about nature-based solutions, proposals had been made at the early planning stages. Submissions were made in respect of maybe looking further afield, up in the Dublin mountains, to try to alleviate some issues up there with nature-based solutions rather than just pouring concrete much further down into the city. That never happened, and I do not know whether that is because it is too difficult or whether we are just used to pouring concrete and maybe it is a cheaper and easier thing to do. I do not know whether it requires, as Mr. Adamson was talking about, multi-sectoral approaches and county councils working with one another. This is a follow-up to what Senator Higgins was talking about. What are the blockers to using more nature-based solutions rather than just pouring concrete? When people see trees being uprooted and biodiversity and habitats being destroyed further downstream, they ask questions about why we need to do this. Is it that we built on all the floodplains further upstream? I am just curious.
Mr. Robert Mooney:
In a broad sense, the OPW is concerned about providing the level of protection communities require, and that is against a one in 100 flood. Nature-based solutions are considered as part of the development of schemes, but frequently, on their own, they are not sufficient to provide the level of protection required. That is an issue for ourselves. There are also issues with regards to time scale for delivery, in that some nature-based solutions, such as the ones the Deputy was talking about, reforestation for example, can take extended time frames. Those are considerations. I ask Mr. Casey to speak to the specific scheme the Deputy mentioned.
Mr. Jim Casey:
I reassure the Deputy that we do look at the catchment overall when we are trying to solve a flood problem in a given catchment.
We take a catchment-wide approach. The CFRAM programme was designed specifically to do that. We look at catchment-wide measures as well as more localised measures in locations such as the Whitechurch location as mentioned.
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
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When Mr. Casey says "catchment-wide", would that involve multiple county councils if required or local councils working together with the Office of Public Works? How does that work in practice?
Mr. Jim Casey:
Yes, we carry out engagement with a broad range of stakeholders when we are coming forward with schemes. At stage 1 of a scheme development we would start out by looking at all the potential options and means of solving the problem, both catchment-wide and localised. We would then scrutinise those and compare them in terms of their performance. Ultimately, our objective is to bring forward a scheme that will provide a high level of protection to an internationally recognised standard, the one in 100-year flood standard. That is a standard required of the insurance industry. We have to meet that standard of protection. This is where nature-based solutions on their own in isolation would often struggle to achieve that standard. As Mr. Adamson mentioned, a scheme may need a very wide expanse of land to be available to have multiple interventions, maybe hundreds of interventions or more, so there are significant implications for landowner impact and all of that. We consult all of the relevant stakeholders, statutory and non-statutory, and we have public consultation days where we present all of the options before we refine down to the preferred option.
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
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That is very helpful. Mr. Casey said the OPW has comprehensive national information of potential future flooding from rivers and the sea. Recently, county councils have been rezoning land for housing and things like that. Does the OPW engage proactively with county councils when it comes to issues like rezoning, especially if the OPW has looked at the catchment and can see that if this area is developed now, it may lead to flooding down the line elsewhere based on its modelling? Is that something that happens?
Mr. Robert Mooney:
Yes. I will also ask my colleague to come in on this. There are planning guidelines produced under the planning framework - section 28 planning guidelines - which set out the considerations that local authorities need to take into account with regard to planning when it comes to flood risk. The OPW has a role in assisting with the development of those guidelines and it has a role in reviewing high-level planning documents that are prepared. We provide commentary on those. As of recently, the OPW provides training to planners in the local authorities in how to read our flood maps, how to interpret where the risks lie, and what to be aware of. There is a proactive involvement in that space. Perhaps my colleague Mr. Adamson will add to that.
Mr. Mark Adamson:
Certainly. As Mr. Mooney said, we have worked with the Department of housing, starting about 20 years ago, and we have developed the guidelines on the planning system and flood risk management, which were published in November 2009. Although we are not a planning authority, we do obviously have that flood expertise and we work with the local authorities, providing direct advice. We also provide training and workshops. A year or two ago we undertook half-day workshops with each local authority to run through and refresh familiarisation with the guidelines and how to take the potential impacts of climate change on flood risk into account in the forward planning and decision-making process. We review all forward planning documents. That will be all development plans and local area plans. We will review and submit comments on the issues papers and the draft material amendments. We submit those comments to the local authorities and would forward them to the Office of Planning Regulator, OPR, in order that it is aware of our comments. As necessary, we will then assist it and the Department on possible directions.
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Did the OPW engage with and submit any recommendations to local councils or local authorities on any of the recent rezoning?
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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I thank the witnesses for the presentation. I want to concentrate on nature-based solutions because I think it is an area we have not focused on enough over the last years, despite the UK actually doing a lot more and a lot better when it comes to that issue. Approximately how many OPW staff are in the flood risk management area?
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Would the majority be engineers? How many ecologists would Mr. Casey have out of the 500?
Mr. Jim Casey:
We have recently started to recruit ecologists and environmental scientists. Within my team I have a dedicated environmental section that would have ecologists, environmental scientists and engineers with particular expertise on the environmental side. That is an area of our team we are growing.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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How many would be in that at the moment? I am just trying to get a sense. Looking from the outside in, I think the OPW's focus has been very much on the engineering and the hard protections. I am just trying to get a sense of how many people within the organisation have a specialty in nature-based solutions and the ecological management of floodwaters.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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I am sorry, but-----
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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We will just let Mr. Casey finish.
Mr. Jim Casey:
-----that we do not only engage consulting engineers on the engineering side. All of our projects engage with environmental consultancies. All of those would have people with the expertise the Deputy is referring to there. All of our schemes are balanced from an environmental and engineering perspective, and they need to be.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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I do not want to be rude but the time goes so quickly. So, there are around five people in the environmental section out of 500, but that area is growing, which is welcome.
How much of the €580 million spent on the 56 completed flood relief schemes was allocated to nature-based solutions and measures?
Mr. Jim Casey:
I cannot give a specific figure on that. As I referenced, all of our schemes do assessments of the potential for adopting nature-based solutions as either part of, or exclusively, the solution to flood problems. That happens on all of our projects. We do not have very many examples of where the solution to the problem is a nature-based solution. We do have some examples, and Clonakilty is one such example, where we have brought in an upstream attenuation pond. It may not be nature based in the purest sense but it is attenuation and it is upstream storage. Also, on the Poddle scheme we have an integrated constructed wetland, which is also nature based and has co-benefits.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Specifically, in the recent floods, Enniscorthy was one of the worst hit and it is particularly interesting for me because I am very familiar with Enniscorthy. The problems that people saw in Enniscorthy were largely derived from Wicklow, where I am a constituent. That is where the problems are. I believe that €51 million has been allocated for the Enniscorthy flood relief scheme. Will Mr. Casey tell me what upstream measures are being put in place? Out of that €51 million, is any work being done in the Wicklow Mountains or upstream on the River Slaney from a nature-based perspective?
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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In that scheme that was not progressed, were there upstream nature-based solutions? Did the OPW look at rewetting boglands?
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Am I correct in saying that the flooding that came off the Wicklow Mountains was the main contributor to what we saw in Enniscorthy? Is that a correct assessment?
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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That is pretty much correct that it was the rain and the fact that it was saturated running off into the Slaney, which completely flooded. I am trying to use Enniscorthy as an example. The OPW is now going back to the drawing board to come up with a design. It makes sense that where the OPW should look first is upstream and that it looks at where the flooding originated. Is that where the OPW's focus is going to be?
Mr. Jim Casey:
I would not say we would look first anywhere, in fact. We look everywhere and at all potential options. We will trawl far and wide for all potential solution options, and we will evaluate all of those. If we were to confine ourself to one location only, you could spend a lot of time going down that route and you may not find a solution there. It is important we look at the catchment-wide solutions and the more localised solutions in an holistic way.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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At the moment, the National Parks and Wildlife Service has a project there. It is spending €1 million on bog restoration around Kippure. Has the OPW had any discussions with the National Parks and Wildlife Service about the work it is doing in the catchment of the Slaney in relation to this?
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Mr. Casey might follow up on that. That would be great.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses for coming in. I think I met Mr. Casey in Listowel. The task force that was mentioned by Mr. Quinlan first met in January. How many times has it met since?
Mr. Barry Quinlan:
That task force has only been established. It was established as part of the new governance structure for climate action, which has a big focus on implementation. It met for the first time. It was established under the new Minister. It met in January and will meet again this month.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Mr. Casey mentioned the requirements of the insurance industry. We hear terms such as "one in 100 years" and all that, which I am sceptical about. What is the relevance of the insurance industry requirements? Is that so that houses can be insured? Is that the priority, is that what the task is, or is that what the OPW is aiming toward?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Unless that specification is in place, they will refuse to insure houses. Is that it?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Following on from of some of Deputy Whitmore's previous questioning, a report on RTÉ by Colman O'Sullivan at the end of March referred to the Kippure project and the Wicklow Mountains. It stated that 80% of the Wicklow Mountains was peatland. We have heard about land drainage. Heavy rain comes on saturated ground. There is a bog restoration project. It has been shown that it slows down the water drainage by 30%. The ancillary benefits to these wooden blockages or restoration is a return to the original way the bog was, better biodiversity, better water storage and carbon sinks.
Similarly, there was a report after Storm Bert in Listowel. We had heavy rain. People were upstream on the River Feale, which flooded at the time. We know what happened with the flooding there: it came down in a surge. There was heavy rain, but it was not slowed down upstream. That may be due to forestry run-off, but we know that there is drainage and the water comes into the river much faster. That is not addressed in the report into the flooding, that a barrier was put in place, etc. Is the OPW addressing that to make it a one in 100 years event? If the OPW looks at the bridge at Kilmorna and in and around the arteries and tributaries of the Feale, there is no doubt that water is accessing the river at a much faster rate than it did 30 years ago. What measures are being taken to slow down the water coming in upstream on the river Feale and the Slaney? Is it going to be addressed in the report? It was completely absent from the report that I read on the flooding.
Mr. Mark Adamson:
I will not deal with the Feale specifically, if the Deputy does not mind. More generally, we are focused on looking to develop our capacities and implementation of nature-based measures. We co-funded the slow waters project with the EPA, which is a major half million euro project into examining the benefits of nature-based measures. We co-funded the Inishowen Rivers Trust nature-based measures, the study and then the implementation of the measures, which are leaky dams. We are actively promoting and funding that. As Mr. Casey mentioned, an assessment of the nature-based measures is undertaken as a standard requirement for all flood relief schemes. We are, as I said, trying to work on a more multisectoral basis. We are working with LAWPRO in relation to-----
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I will cut Mr. Adamson short there, if he does not mind. He said he was not going to deal with the River Feale. To give some succour to the people in Listowel, is upstream of the River Feale going to be addressed? There was a lot in the report and a lot of people fed into the report, but there was no mention whatsoever of rainwater accessing those basins at a much faster rate than used to be the case.
Mr. Jim Casey:
The works that were recently delivered in Listowel in response to that flood event a year earlier were interim measures. When we looked at the impact of that event and the pathways for the floodwater from the River Feale in through the community, how we would disrupt those pathways and prevent properties being flooded in any reoccurrence of that event was our focus in respect of those. They were-----
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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That is a good thing.
Mr. Jim Casey:
Yes, absolutely. I agree with the Deputy. We will be looking at the broader upstream and the potential for nature-based solutions in the later Listowel flood relief scheme that will come at a later date. The work we have done in Listowel are an interim solution. It is not the total solution.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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When will that report be ready?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Will the OPW be addressing the upstream?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Will the OPW do that before any works commence in the town?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Does Mr. Casey have a year for when that might happen?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Would it be in the next four or five years?
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Mr. Casey hopes so, but there are no guarantees.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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To continue on with the OPW, what we saw in January were controlled releases at reservoirs. I appreciate that the latter is the responsibility of the ESB rather than the OPW. That said, do the increased risk of flooding downstream caused by controlled releases at reservoirs come into the OPW's flood risk mapping? The reason I bring that up is because of the impact of what happened at Poulaphouca in January on the River Liffey. A lot of the water from Poulaphouca goes down the Liffey but has knock-on impacts on large towns such as Clane and Celbridge on its way to Dublin. Has there been any mapping done by the OPW of the controlled releases carried out by the ESB?
Mr. Mark Adamson:
Yes. When the CFRAM programme was being undertaken in the period 2011 to 2018, the flood mapping for 300 communities around the country would have been done at the catchment scale. Where there are significant dams, for example, on the River Lee and the River Liffey, we would have taken into account what releases were likely to come from the major reservoirs during extreme flood events. That would have been part of the mapping process.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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This needs to be reviewed in light of recent history over the past few months. One of the controlled releases to which I refer increased water levels in watercourses and small streams behind housing estates that previously never would have been an issue. As we move into a period when we are going to see a lot more flooding and controlled releases of water from reservoirs, for obvious reasons relating to the very safety of those very reservoirs - in that context, the level at Poulaphouca rose by 2 m in January - there needs to be more mapping done, particularly in respect of smaller streams and tributaries. I refer, in particular, to the River Liffey and to the River Lee in Cork in areas where there are large housing estates and huge populations.
Mr. Mark Adamson:
The management of the reservoir levels within these large dams is taken into account in terms of the water services sectoral adaptation plan. If they are being managed for water supply, that would be part of the water services. As a result, the impact of climate change on the recharge of those reservoirs is something that would need to be taken into account. That said, we do review our flood maps. We do have an active flood map review programme that is ongoing. That is so the OPW, other Departments, local authorities or, indeed, members of the public can raise queries about flood maps and that will activate a process that is established for reviewing and, if necessary, updating those maps.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Not to labour the point, but there are a number of housing estates that have been there for 20 or 30 years that have never experienced any type of flooding before and that are experiencing it now because of what is happening to those smaller streams. What happened was particularly impactful because of the controlled release of water. More generally, there seems to be more flooding of these streams as well. That is only over the past year or two. I do think more work needs to be around that.
The OPW has been getting most of the questions. Moving on to the Department, the adaptation task force is intended to address cross-departmental barriers that sectoral plans cannot resolve. Essentially, that involves trying to eliminate a lot of the silos that exist. What type of flood-related risks have most clearly demonstrated the limits of adaptation planning by Departments? What risks have been coming up, particularly as a result of the siloed nature of adaptation planning up to now?
Mr. Barry Quinlan:
One thing we are focused on now is nature-based solutions. The role we see for the task force is bringing the experience of the OPW but, more broadly, international experience - the UK was mentioned in this regard - to bear. There have been some examples of nature-based solutions through local authorities. As the Deputy mentioned, this can work through local authorities. The County and City Management Association is represented at chief executive level on its own environment, climate and circular economy committee, which is bringing those types of things together. The Department of housing is involved. There is also representation from the water services and from the built environment section within the Department of housing. We have the electricity SAP in our Department, which deals with the whole issue around the ESB, etc. It is those types of things. The CCAC would have shown that different parts of the system have different levels of maturity in terms of adaptation planning and how integrated it is into infrastructure plans, etc. OPW would be one of the leaders on that. It is a forum to bring all that together.
It is also part of a governance structure that goes through a programme board and a delivery board chaired by the Minister ultimately to the Cabinet committee. One of the things that happened after the most recent flooding was that the questions being asked here about nature-based solutions and whether we are examining them to the extent we should as a country, came back from the Cabinet committee. That is one of the things we are going to examine in the context of working together on the task force. What we are trying to do on the task force is look at the scorecard, the CCAC and funding capacity in various sectors, and trying to bring through the items that need to be looked at in the round. The various Departments are represented on it, as are the EPA and local authorities. There is a big role for local authorities to play, not just in adaptation but also in mitigation. We are trying to grow that. It is trying to bring those pieces together. In some ways, there is an agenda there in the context of the scorecard. It is also very important as well, however, because it is a vehicle for Departments and various bodies to be able to bring these issues to the fore. If there are issues around water, releases, etc., they are the types of things that the task force can examine.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses for attending. I wish to welcome the future climate scientists from Celbridge.
I have a question for the officials from the Department of climate in the first instance. Mr. Quinlan stated that the Climate Change Advisory Council independently assesses SAPs using a scorecard approach and noted that the OPW is actively addressing climate risks through prevention, protection and preparedness measures. Has the Climate Change Advisory Council given scores on previous SAPs that were in place in Enniscorthy and Cork, where we have people who are living in fear when they see forecasts of rain? If targets are missed, who is going to be held accountable when the Department is talking about these sectoral adaptation plans? It seems to be that so many Departments are in charge of this. Why is it not just the Minister for climate? Ultimately, who is responsible for the failing schemes we have at the moment?
Mr. Barry Quinlan:
In terms of sectoral responsibilities, the Minister for climate is in charge of the national adaptation framework under the legislation and each of the line Ministers is responsible for various things. In the briefing pack, we provided a list of the SAPs and the relevant Ministers responsible. The OPW would be the main body in terms of the flood relief SAP. When the CCAC assesses that, it is within the framework of a sectoral adaptation plan. It is assessing its sectoral adaptation plan rather than individual schemes and responses to individual flooding events. It is done more in the round and involves looking at it under the various headings. In that context, it gives things a red, amber or green status. It is the quality of the sectoral adaptation plans that the CCAC is examining rather than individuals projects, responses, etc. The OPW would be better able to explain the constraints it works under in terms of trying to get those schemes developed.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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This question is for the OPW. There are 100 schemes in design, planning and construction. How many are actually under construction right now as opposed to being in progress?
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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Questions are asked all the time about whether Departments properly resourced. On the basis of Mr. Casey's reply to Teachta Daly and Teachta Whitmore, it seems as if the OPW is only doing one thing at a time. While it is waiting to sort out the flooding in Enniscorthy, why is it not looking at nature-based solutions further upstream?
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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Nature-based solutions do not require the same level of planning. We can pay farmers to plant trees and allow rewilding of farmland. Nature-based solutions are a very easy way to start to solve these problems upstream without all the planning delays.
Mr. Robert Mooney:
I do not want people to have the impression we are not doing anything on nature-based solutions. One of the actions we had in the adaptation plan was to map the opportunities for nature-based solutions. That work is done and national-scale nature-based solution opportunity maps are published on data.gov.ie. There are four datasets identifying potential sites for run-off reduction, wetland restoration, flood-plain roughening and flood-plain reconnection. It is very much at the front of our minds. The datasets have been put in there to inform broader consideration. Nature-based solutions are coming to the fore when it comes to scheme adaptation into the future. There is definitely an increasing role for nature-based solutions in that space because there is certainly time to plan for climate change and nature-based solutions to be integrated into the schemes. Mr. Adamson might want to talk about some of the other aspects.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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On the deployment of nature-based solutions and their scalability, lots of good pilot projects are listed there. I visited quite a few of them in Cobh, Stoneybatter and elsewhere. It is about the intersection of all these plans. There is an inter-agency departmental group. It is looking at the next CAP strategic plan, the water action plan, the nitrates action programme and the local authority development plans. At what point are those plans intersecting with and cross-checking each other in the context of scaling up these projects?
I got sight of the recommendations for the nature restoration plan yesterday. There is mention of a budget of €400 million to €700 million. There is a huge opportunity to scale all of this stuff up into something really meaningful. Is scaling up the nature-based solutions on the radar of the OPW and the Department in the context of the interdepartmental group's work? Other members mentioned communities that have been waiting for projects for some time. There is an opportunity to deploy some of these nature-based solutions while they are waiting for the hard engineering solutions.
Mr. Robert Mooney:
In a broad sense, we are very much plugged into the interdepartmental group's nature restoration, as the Senator mentioned, the water framework directive group. There are opportunities in that space to tie this stuff together, and it is being actively considered. In terms of opportunities to ramp up, as colleagues said, nature-based solutions are considered as part of the development of flood schemes. I do not see why they would not be considered as part of interim measures as well where feasible.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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I am conscious that it still has to go through a process of appropriate assessment. I appreciate that it is not plain and simple.
Mr. Robert Mooney:
As some of the Senator's colleagues pointed out, some of these interventions can also take time to develop. It is about getting the balance right between putting the protections that communities need in place as soon as possible and planning for longer term nature-based solutions that lend themselves to the adaptation piece.
Mr. Barry Quinlan:
From the Department's perspective, we are linked into the nature restoration plan. There are two sides to that. I have a land-use side in my division. We do the mitigation climate action planning, etc., and we also have adaptation. There is a nature-based solutions element, but it can also come into it. We are talking to colleagues who look after water about how these things can work together. One of the things we are trying to do is to link in because there are other objectives. There is the big peatland rehabilitation programme run by us and Bord na Móna. We are looking at how all those things can work together to try to get the optimal solution working with OPW and others. Sometimes, it can be about timing, etc., and whether we can deliver the type of solution that people require within the timelines.
The impacts of climate change are worsening, and these things are becoming more pressing all the time. It gives us the opportunity to try to bring them together. I know it can be frustrating when people see multiple objectives, and we are trying to link them all together. We want to restore nature. If we can do that and help to alleviate flooding, it is obviously something we would be very interested in trying to pursue.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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Is it the intention of the Minister to publish phase 2 of the land use review?
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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My final question relates to an area of interest of mine. For my sins, I was involved in landscape gardening for about 20 years. I know the built environment unit and the Department of housing are part of the process of landscaping in urban areas. Very often, the budget for landscaping on housing schemes is almost an afterthought. In other words, subsoil is put back into schemes, a couple of trees are planted and that is the job done. Given that under the nature restoration regulation there are targets for urban tree cover, we are missing a trick here if we do not put in sufficient measures to support the proper landscaping of housing schemes. First, it gives people access to nature. Second, it has a cooling effect in our urban areas. Third, because we are going to face extreme heat - we will probably face it this year - the impact is obviously a nature-based solution in its own right. What directions are being given to local authorities around the planning system and ensuring sufficient budgets are in place? I have seen some really good schemes here in Dublin, but around the country there are mixed results. What direction is being given to local authorities on that?
Mr. Barry Quinlan:
The local authorities are represented on the task forces. There is an element of planning and built environment around that. From the perspective of planning a built environment rather than a SAP, the Department of housing has done a scoping document on it. They would say a lot of this is already integrated into planning etc. There is some work to be done about the extent to which a sectoral adaptation plan is required. The CCAC and others would have a view on that.
As the Senator knows, I worked in the Department of housing. There is huge redevelopment in Dominick Street. In fairness to Dublin City Council, and sometimes this would not be known, the new block that was built is ready for district heating. Major nature-based solutions are built into the plans for the regeneration of the old block. Much of this is already happening and is in the plans. There are some brilliant people working in local government and we are really trying to support that. On the formal side, the question will be as to whether this is already built in enough into the various plans and the planning system, built environment and building standards, or if a sectoral adaptation plan is needed. A scoping document will be the first step in that.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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It needs to happen as a matter of urgency. We are scaling up housing delivery but we are missing a trick here, particularly with private developments. Mr. Quinlan is absolutely right about Dublin City Council which has done really good work, but it is really inconsistent across the country. Perhaps the local authorities do not have the skills necessary. In addition, it is not being budgeted into private developments.
Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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I thank all of the witnesses for their contributions today. I also acknowledge the work of the OPW in my constituency with the Wad River and the removal of the sandbags that plagued the area for 14 years, despite multiple residents' objections. The fact they were rented should be investigated as to why they were being rented and not bought by the council. One of the most frustrating things for members of the public is when taxpayers' money is wasted.
The question I wanted to ask relates to Dublin Bay North and Clontarf, Raheny, Baldoyle, Bayside, Howth, Sutton and all of the coastal areas I represent. One of the arterial mains, the north city arterial main, NCAM, project is currently being proposed for April 2027. I have been engaging with the OPW and DCC and I am just looking for clarity, as people are most frustrated when taxpayers' money is wasted. If the NCAM pipe is being proposed, can the permanent flood defence be done at the same time to reduce disruption and reduce the cost of the project? Is that being investigated and has there been engagement between the Department and Uisce Éireann?
Mr. Jim Casey:
I thank the Deputy for the question. In a word, yes. There is collaboration happening now between Dublin City Council and Uisce Éireann in relation to trying to bring forward these infrastructure projects in a more integrated way. I know they have plans to set up a working group that is representative of all those bodies and to bring forward a master plan to deliver that infrastructure in the Clontarf area and that vicinity. It is a new governance arrangement they are setting up. They wrote to us about that recently - last month, in fact. We responded to them on that saying that we would be very supportive of that approach.
I agree that is a good thing, but it also brings challenges and it has to be carefully managed. If you were to deliver multiple infrastructure projects in conjunction and simultaneously, there are challenges there to bring all those stakeholders together and to have them all working together. In principle, it is a good approach. Hopefully, it will be successful when we embark on it shortly.
Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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I thank Mr. Casey for his engagement regarding the removal of the current interim measures. They have been greatly appreciated and the native holly looks great.
Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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For members of the public who will be engaging with this, has the OPW completed a full engineering assessment with Uisce Éireann regarding whether the proposal of the current pipeline infrastructure could constrain future flood defence works, such as wall rising terracing, nature-based solutions, as we have all mentioned, or other coastal resilience measures? There is currently a CPO for the project scheduled for 2027 but it is very important that the public is aware, it is known and it is very clearly stated that it will not affected future permanent flood defences. Has that already occurred?
Mr. Jim Casey:
No, I do not believe so. We have not carried out that exercise with Uisce Éireann but that exercise will be part of this integrated governance approach to that project I referenced. Dublin City Council will take the lead on that and we will be part of the team feeding into that. We are happy to facilitate all of those assessments, as required.
Barry Heneghan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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I really welcome that the OPW will facilitate that. Recently, there was an article in The Irish Times on the flooding we saw that my constituents had to endure and the fear it brought for them. I would appreciate if Mr. Casey could get me some clarity on the release from DCC. The current indication appears to be there will be a consultation appointment in late 2026, a planning submission in 2029, work will commence in 2031 and construction could potentially continue until 2033 or beyond. With the rising levels and increased flooding across Dublin Bay North - I welcome what the OPW did in Portrane - it would be great to give assurances to my constituents who all deserve to be able to rely on the flood defences that will be brought out as a faster measure. Is the release that was sent out accurate? I know that sometimes there are administrative errors. In any office, people can send things they should not have sent. If accurate, residents are effectively being told that permanent protections may still be close to a decade away, despite the increased flooding risk and the heavy rainfall we saw at the start of this year.
I also commend the DCC workers. With the amount of rainfall we had, they were working tirelessly. From speaking on the phone to the engineers, the men and women on the ground did their best, with assistance from the Minister of State, Deputy Boxer Moran, the Department and the Department of climate. I thank the Department for all the work it does. I know it is constraining sometimes. I know the Taoiseach mentioned in the Chamber that the critical infrastructure legislation will include flood defence. Correct me if I am wrong, but I did not see it in the currently proposed Bill. I know the Minister will have the power to put forward alternatives that could be named as critical infrastructure.
People understand environmental protections are important but they also want to understand that the State is moving with urgency. Is there any further clarification Mr. Casey or the Department can give to the residents of north Dublin that common sense will prevail and we will minimise disruption and minimise the cost of the project?
Mr. Jim Casey:
On that, I have not seen that specific release the Deputy referenced so I will not comment on the timelines in that. I reassure him that we are standing ready to work hand in glove with Dublin City Council on the delivery of the flood relief scheme for Clontarf and to work in conjunction with the other infrastructure promoters and those who have the lead on other infrastructure. We are happy to play our part on that team to see what can be done to deliver all of that in an integrated way. I will leave it at that.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses for being here. It is also important to thank them for their work because I know it can be difficult. I will start with compliments from some of the communities I represent which have been impacted. I met with Mr. Casey and the Minister last week. We need to ensure we have interim measures so that what happened in places like Bunclody and Aughrim does not happen again.
While it is critical that we look at finding permanent solutions, to protect homes and businesses interim solutions and working with nature need to be explored. Our top priority has to be around ensuring we protect people's homes and businesses. That is critical. I am looking forward to the measures that will be rolled out this year to protect those communities so they do not see again what they had to suffer. With what we saw in Enniscorthy in terms of the interim measures, there is a lot of evidence that it works. It is important to put that on record.
A lot of the issues have been covered. I want to bring up something that is related to mitigation but it is a flood problem; the challenges with regard to coastal erosion. That has a knock-on impact. For the constituency I represent, I would argue you are covering some of the most beautiful beaches in the country, ranging from Brittas Bay right down to Morriscastle.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Whitmore started it.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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As Deputy Whitmore knows, many of our Dublin colleagues come and arrive onto the beaches. On the question of flood protection, there is a very serious risk where we are seeing large parts of the coast fall into the sea. That has a knock-on impact in terms of where rivers are flowing in to some of those coastal areas. Will Mr. Mooney outline what will happen in coastal communities? There are obviously concerns in towns like Arklow but we are seeing it in Courtown as well. There is a fear we will see more accretion of land to the sea and the impact that will have in turn on some of the rivers and streams.
Mr. Robert Mooney:
With regards to coastal erosion, an interdepartmental report called the coastal change management strategy was produced in October 2023. That report had 15 recommendations and on foot of that an interdepartmental group has been established in order to progress that work. In broad terms, there are three strategic pillars. The first is enhancing governance and capacity building. The second is understanding the coastal erosion risk and technical options and nature-based solutions that are possible as well.
Finally, it is about implementing management responses to that. The intent is to develop a national set of coastal change management plans. It is a process that is not dissimilar to that undertaken for flooding through the CFRAM programme.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I am aware of that but could we get a timeframe because it is obviously a concern for these coastal communities?
Mr. Robert Mooney:
That would involve the longer-term plans. There are immediate measures such as those under the OPW's minor works scheme. Local authorities experiencing pressing and current issues can apply for funding through that. The Deputy mentioned some of the areas. Portrane has received some funding to carry out interim measures. They also have a longer-term project in mind. There are a couple of places around the country where research has been done and there is potential for larger-scale projects. They will be taken in as Pathfinder projects under the work of the interdepartmental group so it involves long, medium and short-term solutions. The intention is that no community will be left stranded while the process goes through and we have the comprehensive set of plans.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I see that there are minor works in Cahore that are ready to start. I am particularly concerned about what is happening in Courtown Harbour. Courtown-Riverchapel is now the fifth biggest urban settlement in Wexford. Mr. Mooney will be familiar with some of the problems. What are the interim solutions there?
Mr. Jim Casey:
The mechanism for us funding urgent measures that are required immediately is through our minor works mechanism. Local authorities are free to submit applications at any time throughout the year. We have provided significant funding in County Wexford over the years to do with coastal erosion. I can come back to the Deputy on whether we have received an application for Courtown. We will consider those applications up to a limit of €2 million. The Minister of State, Deputy Moran, recently announced an increase in the threshold for the minor works funding, from €750,000 up to €2 million. We will shortly be announcing the detail of that revised scheme. Funding is available and where applicants meet the criteria, the works can follow through. Some examples where we recently funded works in Wexford include Seaview and Rosslare.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Could Mr. Casey come back to the Deputy with regard to Courtown separately?
John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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In a previous life as a councillor, I would have attended some CFRAM workshops. My conclusion was that if it was environmentally viable, it was not financially and if it was financially viable, it was not environmentally viable so I wondered whether we would ever get anything done. An example in my county involves Birr, which is on a flood risk map. Measures have been identified as being required. They involve constructing a 591 m new flood defence wall. It has never flooded but when would Mr. Casey expect those works to be completed?
John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Birr in County Offaly. Will it be this decade or the next?
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I think the project involved the River Feale. Did Mr. Casey mention the Feale?
John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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My concern is that where it is identified but there are no works, there is a potential consequence for local households and businesses from an insurance perspective. It is about trying to provide an element of greater security. With regard to streams and rivers contributing to the main arteries, the climate adaptation measures from the local authorities are very much welcome but could Mr. Casey address expressions of interest from projects to be completed versus the success rate? Does the OPW go back post-works to investigate whether they have been effective?
John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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But in terms of the adaptation schemes at local authority level and the OPW's involvement with them?
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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It is the same thing.
Mr. Jim Casey:
I am talking about the same thing. It was referenced earlier that flood relief schemes are part of the adaptation response so we would see the scheme as being the adaptation measure. Those schemes are carefully designed and delivered to a very high standard. We have been very successful in achieving that. To come back to the Deputy's earlier point about Birr and having to wait-----
John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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It is just one example. There is a full list of tranche 2 projects. It concerns that uncertainty.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Offaly County Council can do that.
John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Maybe I am confusing the minor works scheme with the full flood relief schemes. What is the process for reviewing works done under the minor works scheme to identify their effectiveness post-works? I might have been using the wrong terminology.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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The minor works scheme is relatively new.
John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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We have had it for a few years.
Mr. Jim Casey:
Once we fund minor works, it is really the local authority's responsibility to implement those so we do not review them but we do audit them to ensure that as part of our auditing process, the works have been carried out. However, we do not review them in terms of their original design requirements and so on.
John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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But the OPW would see it as an effective means of completing those works?
John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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My final question concerns Shannon flood risk. There is a constant debate locally about the effectiveness of dredging. I am conscious that a lot of group members are involved in this process moving forward and I am sure there will be a lot of engagement with all communities. Could the witnesses give us an insight into the significance or effectiveness of dredging and how important it will be in the likes of that project?
Mr. Robert Mooney:
The Shannon flood risk State agency co-ordination working group co-ordinates work on the Shannon. A programme of strategic maintenance is being pursued by that group. I think 24 locations have been identified for various interventions from tree pruning to silt removal. It is ostensibly to ensure the conveyance of the river is maintained - largely for navigation purposes. Waterways Ireland undertakes the work there.
A project within that group called the Pinch Points project for the Shannon Callows looks at lowering the water level in the Shannon Callows upstream of Meelick Weir during the summer period to offset possible summer flooding there. A high-level environmental survey was conducted by Scott Cawley Ltd., which highlighted that there are significant environmental issues that must be considered further and resolved. The group has established a dedicated Shannon Callows working group to work through those issues.
It is currently engaging with key stakeholders in the area. It is meeting with the Save our Shannon organisation and the IFA to look at all the options. That is a requirement because the environmental consultants pointed out that due to the nature of the special areas of conservation, SACs, and special protection areas, SPAs, in the area, the need to invoke imperative reasons of overriding public interest, IROPI, could not be ruled out in order to pursue that project. All alternatives have to be fully examined in that space as well. That process is being gone through at the moment.
Separately, that group is trying to address some of the concerns of stakeholders in the Shannon as well. The group has produced a website which outlines all the maintenance programmes being conducted. It also publishes, with the assistance of Waterways Ireland and the ESB, the current status of all the sluices in terms of whether they are opened or closed. In order to further provide transparency about the management of water levels on the Shannon both the ESB and Waterways Ireland are now looking at whether they are going to publish the protocol that they operate in order to maintain water levels. That is responding directly to the ask of stakeholders in the area, residents in the area, to better understand how water levels are being managed. Quite a bit is going on in that space. Some of these projects, because of the planning requirements, take a significant period of time, for example, the maintenance projects. Waterways Ireland was talking about getting into silt removal at specific locations over the coming years.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Mooney. I have some questions. Deputy Heneghan mentioned the River Wad flood relief scheme earlier. It is a relatively small scheme by Dublin City Council and it has done well. It is at stage 2 and was funded by the OPW. We keep hearing about the one-in-100 flood risk standard. This is really a question for the Department. Is the one-in-100 standard coming from the insurance industry or is it a standard that the Department has set? The River Wad is an example. There is a big question mark as to whether the insurers will come back to the table and insure all those residents who were flooded, although the scheme is now more or less done. It is great to talk about the one-in-100 and it is great that has been achieved. However, what is the point in achieving it if the insurers are not coming back to the table and underwriting again flood risk in the future? Can I have a comment from the Department on that? Where is the one-in-100 coming from?
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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In general?
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Have we seen them come back to the table though, insuring? Has it actually happened? That is the question.
Mr. Robert Mooney:
We engage with them through a memorandum of understanding, MoU, and they provide us with information in terms of periodic surveys as to what the level of cover is like in areas benefiting from schemes. We know that where there are demountable elements to flood relief schemes, there is less insurance cover in those circumstances. That is because the insurance company, even though there is a one-in-100 level of protection, because there are interventions required in order to deploy the protection, it makes them more risk-averse in that space. We are taking steps to provide assurances to them in that regard through developing service level agreements with local authorities to specify who does what and when in that space. We have also provided presentations to the insurance industry about how local authorities deploy demountable flood schemes in order to provide better information around that. From the perspective of the citizen, when there is a one-in-100 standard of protection, the property should not flood.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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No citizen likes to go forward without insurance cover. The general State position is that one-in-100 does it, yet there is a big question mark as to whether insurers are actually engaging or actually providing cover.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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However, engaging means giving cover to citizens.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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While you are digging those statistics out, can I ask the Department, you mentioned the high level adaptation task force. It was mentioned there. There is a national adaptation steering committee. What was the purpose of setting up the task force in the context of that committee? The committee seemed to be meeting every quarter. Is the task force there to give it more emphasis or is it about driving matters forward or what is the task force for?
Mr. Barry Quinlan:
The way I would describe is that the steering committee is operational. People from our Department sit on all the steering committees for all the various sectoral adaptation planning, SAPs. There was a huge amount of work. It has been a really successful committee. It was building on that. When we looked at the new governance structures, overall, as we know for climate mitigation and adaptation, there is a huge focus on implementation. That was the point of the new governance structures. In that context there are very good task forces around the system driving all the key areas. It was felt that adaptation should have a task force at that level.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Okay, it is to push matters on. Has Mr. Mooney found the statistics?
Mr. Robert Mooney:
Yes. Where permanent flood defence schemes are in place, Insurance Ireland tells us that 91% of properties in those areas have flood insurance. Where there are demountable defences it reduces to in the order of 69%. We are due to receive updated information from the insurance industry in the coming months.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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It would be good if Mr. Mooney could share that with the committee. That is a key issue.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Mooney for that. In relation to coastal defence, some members mentioned already that we had a meeting with Fingal County Council recently. The area of coastal protection and coastal defence came up. While in my experience as a councillor for some years, Dublin City Council has responsibility. It leads out on coastal defence. The Clontarf project, as mentioned, has been going on a long time. Sandymount was also mentioned. There is a bit of a question mark as to who is responsible for Fingal. Fingal County Council seem to be saying that coastal erosion, protection and flood defence ultimately are the OPW's responsibility. What is the position? Is it that the OPW is responsible for certain areas? What is the position?
Mr. Robert Mooney:
In terms of coastal flooding, the CFRAM programme would consider coastal flooding and the programme of flood defences that is in place with respect to coastal flooding is there. As I outlined earlier, there is an analogous programme to the CFRAM programme being undertaken at the moment with respect to coastal erosion. The OPW is taking the technical assessment, the coastal erosion mapping part of that.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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The OPW is leading that out.
Mr. Robert Mooney:
That is the technical assessment. At an interdepartmental level, the Department of housing is chairing the interdepartmental group. However, the OPW is leading on the pillar 2 actions which is the technical assessment of coastal risk. Ultimately, there will be coastal change management plans which will lead to a programme of interventions which will be developed.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Who will do that?
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Mr. Mooney sees the OPW as leading out on that.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Great. My final question relates to the critical infrastructure Bill. We hear about a lot about delays in flood planning. Enniscorthy has to go back to the drawingboard. It will take us years to move forward again. Would you see value in having flood adaptation included in the critical infrastructure plan? Do you foresee that would help?
Mr. Jim Casey:
As I understand it, the definition of which projects are deemed to be critical under the Bill will be a decision taken by Government. That is how I understand the approach is going to be. So, the Government will decide which infrastructure projects are deemed to be critical infrastructure. They will then be eligible to be put through that route.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Would it be helpful if flood adaptation projects were considered for that?
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses. In the second round there are three minutes each.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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One of the key issues when Storm Éowyn hit was the fact that there were not localised warning systems for communities. While there was a national storm warning, local communities, based on their catchments, were not prepared or warned about what was happening. A public warning system is being brought into place. I believe it is to begin next year. Who is responsible for that? Who will be issuing the warnings? I think there is confusion about who is responsible. Will the OPW issue the warnings?
Mr. Robert Mooney:
A number of issues are at play. First, there is what has happened with the national flood forecasting warning service. It is being delivered on a staged basis. Stage 1 was to deliver coastal and river forecasting at national and catchment level. Stage 2, which is under way, is to develop that forecasting capacity to the point where local forecasts can be derived. When local forecasts can be derived, then local warnings can be issued. There is an issue with forecasting capability at this point and how that interplays with warnings. That is part of stage 2, as is the development of how the warnings will work as part of stage 2. Separately, I think the Deputy is talking about a national dissemination system for a whole range of emergencies. That is not within the OPW's remit.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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It makes sense. There needs to be data and information, and modelling needs to be done, before being able to tell people there is a problem in their local river, but I was just reading online that that warning system is due to start in 2027.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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The planned new public warning system for flooding and other potentially hazardous events. That is to begin next year. Is the Department aware of when that system is to come into place?
Mr. Robert Mooney:
I think that is a generic dissemination system for a whole range of emergencies. I know it was developed as a subgroup of the Office of Emergency Planning. I do not know which Department leads on that. As I understand it, that is for a whole range of emergency types. How the warning system will work for flooding has to be worked through as part of stage 2.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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When will stage 2 be completed?
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Is it still the case that we will not have localised flooding warnings for five to ten years?
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Does Mr. Mooney know what areas are being looked at first?
Mr. Robert Mooney:
I do not. That is being worked through at the moment. An awful lot of it is dependent on the availability of the type of information that is required in order to underpin the models. We know that a programme is required for installing additional infrastructure, including river gauges and rainfall gauges. Met Éireann is also installing additional rainfall radar to enhance its ability to see what is happening with regard to rainfall in real time and where it is falling.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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When this national public warning system is introduced next year, it will not be giving local flood warnings.
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The issue of insurance and reinsurance after flooding events, particularly in high-risk areas, is obviously a major issue for my constituents in Grange Park and places like that, after the recent floods of the Whitechurch stream. On this one in 100 standard, is the insurance industry essentially setting the standard for our flood alleviation schemes? To what extent does the OPW or whoever is designing this scheme take this standard into consideration when it comes to a decision between going with a nature-based solution or going with something else? What role does insurance play in the witnesses' considerations?
Mr. Robert Mooney:
The standard of protection is set by the OPW. One in 100 for river flooding and one in 200 for coastal flooding is set by us. The implications are that if you go for a lower standard of protection, there is a higher risk that communities will flood. One in 100 is, generally speaking, an internationally recognised standard for rivers.
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It is internationally recognised. Is it something the OPW has engaged with the insurance companies or industry on?
Mr. Robert Mooney:
The insurance industry is aware of what we are doing about flood protection because part of the Government's policy is to be open and upfront with regard to what level of protection is being put in across the country, in order to encourage the insurance industry to provide insurance.
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Has the OPW ever engaged with them on a local level? Would it be part of the OPW's practice at all to talk to the industry before implementing the scheme and saying this is what we are proposing?
Ciarán Ahern (Dublin South West, Labour)
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That is what I was trying to get to the bottom of. I thank Mr. Mooney.
I have a follow-up on the Chair's question about the timelines for these kind of schemes. Do the witnesses have an average timeline for the delivery of flood alleviation schemes? Do they have targets for them? How much time does the planning process take versus the actual construction phase? It seems that the construction phase can be very challenging. There may be delays relating to planning objections or judicial reviews, but implementing and constructing these schemes is not straightforward, and many obstacles can be encountered along the way that contribute to delays in implementing them, which this new critical infrastructure legislation may not have any impact on whatsoever. What is the view on that?
Mr. Jim Casey:
We have timelines. Our average timeline to deliver a flood relief scheme, until recently, has been about ten or 11 years. The construction phase, on average, would take about three years. The preliminary design and optioning stage, which is stage 1, is the most time-consuming. That takes about four years on average. The planning stage, on average to date, has been about two years, and the detailed design stage, stage 3, before construction and tendering, is about 12 months. They are the timelines for the various stages. We are looking at how we can improve on that. We have been engaging at a high level, including with Government, on how we can expedite and improve on those.
In the last 12 months or so, we have seen very rapid planning decisions being taken by An Coimisiún Pleanála, much faster than what we saw prior to that. We have had schemes consented to in six months, and we have had schemes consented to in eight months. We are seeing an improvement in the planning stage. We are also looking at running some of the staging concurrently. We can run the detailed design stage concurrently with the planning stage to expedite delivery. We have been looking at all of those and other steps we can take to improve significantly on that.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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Mr. Quinlan, regarding the work being done in the interdepartmental group on coastal defences, is the issue of managed retreat being looked at or given active consideration? That is moving communities away from areas that are going to be prone to inundation.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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My second question to the OPW goes back to the pilot barrier programme. Some really good work is being done. It needs to be scaled up. There is a commitment in the water action plan for the OPW to initiate a review of the Arterial Drainage Act.
Has that work commenced?
Mr. Robert Mooney:
As the Senator will know, the Arterial Drainage Act is the mechanism to enable works to be done by the OPW. It does not set out the underpinning policy. The OPW is seeking to be informed as to what policy considerations have taken place, in particular with regards to land use and rewetting, which will then inform the Arterial Drainage Act review that is required.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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This is my final question. Has the OPW ever deployed willow revetment - natural revetment - on sections of rivers in any of the work it has carried out?
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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Yes. I am asking about the use of natural materials to hold back riverbanks.
Mr. Jim Casey:
I do not believe I have any examples of willow revetment, but we are constantly looking at what nature-based solutions and environmentally friendly measures are available and might be used by us in the future. We have carried out a lot of engagement with the IFI and other stakeholders about how our work can be done in a more environmentally sensitive way. We have guidelines and standard operating procedures to ensure we can achieve that.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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I thank Mr. Casey.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Yes.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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That is understood. I thank Mr. Mooney.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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We will mention it to him. I thank Mr. Casey. I thank all the witnesses for coming in today. I propose that we publish their opening statements on the committee's website. Is that agreed? Agreed. We will now suspend for two minutes to allow the witnesses to leave.