James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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Before we proceed, I have a few housekeeping matters to go through. I wish to explain some of the limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practice of the Houses as regards references witnesses make to other persons in their evidence. Witnesses within the parliamentary precincts are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the presentation they make to the committee. This means that they have an absolute defence against any defamation action for anything they say at the meeting. However, they are expected not to abuse this privilege, and it is my duty as Chair to ensure that this privilege is not abused. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks, and it is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

I advise members of the constitutional requirement that members must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate where they are not adhering to this constitutional requirement. Therefore, a member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to leave this meeting. In this regard, I ask any member partaking via Microsoft Teams that prior to making their contribution to the meeting they confirm that they are on the grounds of the Leinster House campus.

Our members and our witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks, and it is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

Session two of today's meeting is the engagement with the chairperson of Enterprise Ireland to discuss his strategic priorities for the role. I am delighted to welcome the new chairperson of Enterprise Ireland, Mr. Jim Woulfe, who is accompanied by Mr. Mark Christal, executive director and chief client officer of Enterprise Ireland.

Before we proceed, I propose that we publish on the committee's website the statement provided by Mr. Woulfe to the committee for today's meeting. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I welcome Mr. Jim Woulfe and invite him to make his opening statement.

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

I thank members and Oireachtas colleagues for the invitation to attend this meeting and for giving me the opportunity to formally introduce myself as chairperson of Enterprise Ireland and share an overview of my ambitions for this role. I am delighted to be joined by Mr. Mark Christal, an executive director in Enterprise Ireland whose role focuses on sectoral and client solutions. I am also accompanied by Dr. Paula Maguire, who is the manager of corporate affairs and the board secretary, along with Emma Jane Hade, the senior communications manager.

Enterprise Ireland is the State agency responsible for supporting Irish-owned companies to start, grow and scale, and to win business in global markets. It works with more than 4,500 Irish businesses across the technology, manufacturing and services sectors, which are at varying stages of their exporting journeys, including start-ups at the very beginning, through to SMEs and homegrown multinationals. Enterprise Ireland's mission is to accelerate sustainable Irish business, and its long-term ambition is that Irish-owned exporting businesses will become the primary driver of our national economy. At its simplest, Enterprise Ireland is committed to supporting sustainable communities across Ireland by investing in homegrown Irish exporting businesses in towns and villages in every region around the country.

In spite of a series of economic shocks and extraordinary geopolitical events in recent years, Irish entrepreneurs continue to demonstrate their deep-rooted resilience, innovativeness and agility as they respond to challenges. For example, exports from companies supported by Enterprise Ireland have doubled in the past decade, rising to a record €36.75 billion in 2024. Employment reached 232,425 in 2025, and local expenditure by Enterprise Ireland's client base rose to €42.6 billion in 2024. This success is down to the hard work, tenacity and determination of our client base, and their ambition is backed by an incredible team in Enterprise Ireland who are committed to supporting Irish exporters to become global leaders in their field, delivering a platform for strong economic growth by creating and sustaining jobs in all regions.

I passionately believe in supporting the sustainable growth of strong local economies, so it was a great honour for me to be appointed as chairperson of Enterprise Ireland by the Minister for Enterprise, Tourism and Employment earlier this year. It is a privilege to be chair of a board that is diverse, competent, capable and vastly experienced across the highest levels of industry. We are committed to supporting the Enterprise Ireland team to fulfil the ambitions laid out in its five-year strategy Delivering for Ireland, Leading Globally (2025-2029). My background and experience across more than four decades prior to joining the board of Enterprise Ireland includes roles across a variety of disciplines, including operational, strategic and executive, as well as at board level. I spent 42 years working with Dairygold Co-Operative Society Limited, one of Ireland's largest agri and dairy businesses. Over those four decades, I held a number of leadership roles across different functions within the organisation, including head of human resources and general manager of the agribusiness division, before serving as chief executive for 12 years, from 2009 to 2021. During this time, I led the team through a period of significant global and industry change, including the organisation's largest ever capital investment programme, which delivered world-class dairy processing infrastructure and capability. This rewarding career has afforded me a strong knowledge of one of our largest indigenous sectors, food. It has also given me the unique perspective of being an Enterprise Ireland client for a number of years.

Enterprise Ireland has a broad and complex remit, which comes with significant responsibilities as it has a substantial publicly funded budget and its own resource income, which is generated primarily by investment activities. It is my responsibility as chairperson to ensure that the highest levels of integrity and governance continue to be successfully met, and I look forward to working with a diligent, diverse and balanced board to continue to achieve this goal.

This responsibility is met with great ambition from the Enterprise Ireland team of more than 850 people who are dedicated to supporting our clients. Each and every day, across its ten Irish offices and its network of 42 international offices, the Enterprise Ireland team goes to work for Irish businesses, identifying areas of growth and helping them to build new connections while developing pathways to new opportunities.

Our clients are at the heart of everything we do, and we support them through funding and grants, market access and capability development supports. Our five-year strategy outlines a number of ambitions for the Irish enterprise base by 2029, including employment at our client companies to reach 275,000; exports from these companies to reach €50 billion; and 1,000 new start-ups supported over the lifetime of this strategy. This strategy outlines four strategic pillars in how we will support our companies: to start, compete, scale and connect. It also identifies a number of strategic levers which will be utilised to deliver this, including working with companies to address whatever challenges may arise, by supporting them to effectively harness disruptive technologies such as AI, and supporting them to strengthen supply chains and talent through operational excellence and by embracing the possibilities of innovation.

Also critical to delivering for the Irish enterprise base will be diversification and balance between foreign direct investment and indigenous business. To mitigate the impact of any potential future shocks and challenges on our economy, there is an imperative on us to support our diverse and broad-ranging indigenous enterprise base to scale up and to invest in innovation.

Critical to achieving all this will be fostering ongoing collaboration with the entire ecosystem, as we work together to deliver on the Government's White Paper on Enterprise. Enterprise Ireland has a broad group of stakeholders, including our parent Department and the network of local enterprise offices, which we work with very closely to ensure that aspiring innovators and ambitious start-ups are supported from their infancy.

I take this opportunity to thank my board colleagues, both past and present, for their dedication to the success of the Irish enterprise base. I also thank Jenny Melia, the CEO of Enterprise Ireland, and her leadership team for their hard work, commitment and unwavering support. I thank the entire Enterprise Ireland team for their professionalism and dedication. Our companies are tenacious and ambitious, and they mirror that. Having seen their work first-hand, both at home and abroad, I am constantly impressed by their commitment and proud to hear from clients about how much they value the support they receive in helping them to successfully realise their opportunities. The culture in Enterprise Ireland is about making tomorrow better than today, and we achieve this together, le chéile.

Serving in the role of chair of Enterprise Ireland is a privilege and one I take seriously. I truly believe in the future of indigenous Irish businesses and their potential to be the primary driver of the Irish economy. These businesses are economic pillars in communities the length and breadth of the country, and I am committed to ensuring we continue to support a vibrant economy by achieving balanced regional development. We can realise this by continuing to work collaboratively with our many partners and by providing Irish businesses with the tools and support they need to explore new opportunities to realise their potential and thereby prosper at home and abroad.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Mr. Woulfe. We will now open to contributions from the floor.

Tony McCormack (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Mr. Woulfe for his opening statement. I congratulate him on his appointment as chairman of Enterprise Ireland. He comes with a huge amount of experience in the food and agribusiness, with 42 years working with Dairygold. He was very successful at that, too. I will be watching his tenure from a distance as he leads Enterprise Ireland through challenging waters at a time when there is global uncertainty due to, for example, tariffs and the energy crisis due to the wars in Ukraine and Iran. God only knows how long they will last. We wish they will end very soon and end the misery for the poor people experiencing them in those lands but also to end the uncertainty around the world so that we can get back to some sort of normality and go about our daily work in a normal fashion. One thing business needs is as much certainty as possible.

Enterprise Ireland and the IDA create a huge amount of employment in the country. The IDA has 312,400 people directly employed by companies from right around the world, 60% of which are American. Enterprise Ireland has approximately 232,000 as well as the spin-off jobs that come from them, which is practically our whole economy. With his food and agri hat on and thinking of rural Ireland, does Mr. Woulfe think that the comments by Leo Varadkar recently with regard to jobs from foreign direct investment, FDI, paying for rural Ireland correct?

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

I thank Deputy McCormack for the compliments. As he rightly said, Enterprise Ireland has a very important function and role in dealing with Irish indigenous industry and 232,500 employees.

Regarding what I have seen in the media, I would rather not comment on that matter other than to say that the importance the Deputy has stressed is correct, in that the 232,000 employees have a multiplier impact that runs through the whole economy. We might not be dealing with the transport organisations supplying and working for businesses. During my career in Dairygold, there were more than the 1,300 employees working in the service industry providing back-up for the running of the organisation. The model has changed from one of direct employment. That is critical in supporting businesses going forward. The impact is across every region, town and village.

Tony McCormack (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The recent announcement by Facebook of 10% job losses across the world as well as the subcontracted work in Ireland is an example of what Mr. Woulfe just said. On top of that, there are also the service industries, with people there spending their wages buying clothes in the local clothes shops, going to restaurants and bars and spending weekends away in hotels. They spend their money, which has a knock-on effect that creates jobs in the local economy.

I have talked to a lot of companies that have dealt with Enterprise Ireland. In my former job as a business owner in Tullamore, I availed of some of the services of Enterprise Ireland. Now, it is connected with local enterprise offices, which look after smaller businesses. They are a vital link for smaller businesses and in some cases a huge lifeline. They allow them to access grants and services like mentoring in HR and helping to put tenders together. Those services are invaluable and small businesses get them at a fraction of the price they would pay on the open market. I hear from a lot of companies that it is sometimes hard to access the services and even when they do, the hoops they have to jump through are very difficult. The Government is working through the critical infrastructure Bill to try to take out the blockages, red tape and bottlenecks that are causing issues. Would it be possible for Enterprise Ireland to look at itself because many business - not just one - have told me they have had issues? Now that Mr. Woulfe is chairman, could that be done under his stewardship?

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

I do not disagree with the Deputy's observations. It is something we hear. One of my strategic priorities for Enterprise Ireland is good governance. That is taken for granted. That is the purpose of being chair and having a board. As well as following the strategic direction in the context we have laid out, delivering for Ireland and globally across start, compete, scale and connect, it is important to me to ensure that we are agile as an organisation. We have been agile. In recent challenges like the Ukraine war, a number of schemes were delegated to Enterprise Ireland to deal with looking after businesses through support mechanisms and so on. The agility is within the organisation.

The final point is simplification. I have had first-hand experience because I was a client of Enterprise Ireland in my previous role. The issue is people might feel that they have to incur a lot of cost in order to avail of a benefit. That is something we must avoid. The simplification of processes is a core priority for me. Having said that, we cannot compromise on governance. One may like to have a tick-box and a payout but in certain cases there are criteria and hurdles to be jumped and we must be conscious of that. I note the Deputy's points about the simplification agenda.

Tony McCormack (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We met Ms Jenny Melia and the team from Enterprise Ireland previously. I was very impressed with them. I love the tagline, "Make tomorrow better than today". It is very apt. I look forward to watching how Mr. Woulfe's tenure develops over the years to come. I wish him the best of luck.

Linda Nelson Murray (Fine Gael)
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I welcome our guests today. I wish Mr. Woulfe the very best in his role. I am the enterprise spokesperson in the Seanad. Like Mr. Woulfe, I take my role very seriously. I love nothing more than going around and listening to feedback from businesses, including very small ones. I mentioned to the Minister only recently that we should not use "SME" any more, but "MSME" to also include the micro enterprises. Ironically, I was going around my area on Monday and spoke to a local. He told me that, if I drove 5 miles down the road and took a left, I would see a massive warehouse that had been built and that it was exciting and great for the area. He told me to go down there and to meet and have a chat with the owners. I did. A 40,000 sq. ft, fabulous and brand new manufacturing facility has been built. Another will be built beside it. I met the family involved in the business. Before they even opened their mouths, I thought that this had Enterprise Ireland written all over it. I listened and asked them how they were getting on.

They are purely manufacturing and they also export to Northern Ireland. I asked if I could help them with anything and they replied that I should help them with something. I asked them what they meant and whether they had been in touch with Enterprise Ireland. They replied that they had got in touch and had had somebody down before Christmas. They said they were not the type that totally understands everything they needed to apply for or about writing out business plans and all this type of thing but somebody came down. However, during the meeting, they did not find it very interactive between the two of them and they have not heard a word back since Christmas. They have felt very downtrodden because they have got great plans for the place.

There is so much positive stuff going on with Enterprise Ireland and I am only using this as a follow-on from Deputy McCormack. Whenever he speaks, I seem to be saying something similar and vice versa; we seem to think the same things about businesses. We really need to grasp these businesses that have great potential and are starting something brand new. They are purely manufacturing but feel totally lost right now. I will absolutely come back to the witnesses afterwards and let them know who that was. I am sure Enterprise Ireland will run back out to them to say that whatever has happened, it will be back to them and will help them. On the red tape, I am in business myself and sometimes you are busy doing your day-to-day running of your business. These guys came out in the full manufacturing gear themselves. It is hard for those types of people if they do not have a mentor or someone to advise them from Enterprise Ireland. It is hard for them to know where to go. Where are the signposts? I told them about the national enterprise hub and asked whether they were on that and had they been looking and going through all the filters. They replied that they had gone onto it for a little while but also found that to be all-consuming.

I was going to ask what Enterprise Ireland's challenges are going to be and how the witnesses envisage overcoming them but similar to Deputy McCormack, I would really like Enterprise Ireland to identify these businesses and help them. I am talking about hand-holding because some people out there are manufacturing great things but just do not know how to export or grow their business more. They have got this amazing manufacturing facility built and nothing is happening in it because they are waiting for Enterprise Ireland's support. They know they need to build another one beside it because they can see how big their business is going to be. They have been in business a long time and have identified a new niche in the market. They are going over to Asia to get their machines, they know what they need to be doing but they are doing it by themselves and could really do with Enterprise Ireland's help.

I ask that one of the witnesses' challenges be to look for these companies, to make it simpler for them and ensure they are hand-held because they will benefit us all. There has been great success in Enterprise Ireland, but there are some people who are being left behind or are not getting into the loop. The very best of luck to the witnesses and I cannot wait to tell them about that company afterwards.

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

I thank the Senator for that and for her feedback. Disappointing as it is to hear that, it is better to hear it.

Linda Nelson Murray (Fine Gael)
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Yes, exactly.

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

That is what we are here for; to respond to such circumstances. There is no doubt we are moving digital in quite a significant way. The national enterprise hub the Senator referred to is the one-stop-all, if you like, and is accessible 24-7. However, I fully realise, from the background of my career, there is nothing people like better than the personal one-to-one touch and engaging on that level of commitment and understanding, because it is a people-to-people thing by and large.

Linda Nelson Murray (Fine Gael)
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Absolutely.

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

Quite clearly, all entitlements and all routes to entitlement are in the national enterprise hub, so that is the digital piece. In fact, there have been over 300,000-page reviews and a huge amount has happened in 24 months in that space.

Linda Nelson Murray (Fine Gael)
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It is very good. I have even called the telephone number on it and you can get advice straight away.

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

In that case, I will say that first, Enterprise Ireland is very much on the ground. As there are 80 client advisers and 130 support staff behind those advisers dealing with cases, there should be no reason we should not be able to engage with the people she has referred to in that case study.

It is disappointing to hear it but to be clear, everybody should have a pathway if they are to be successful in business and exporting. In fact, if you genuinely want to grow and succeed in your business, you need a client adviser as your guardian angel in steering you in that direction for success. Enterprise Ireland is not an organisation that brings about penalty; it brings about assistance and support across a whole range of categories, not just grants or equity. It is about education, re-training and all of that. There is an encyclopaedia of support that can be given to companies. My colleagues and I will follow up on that case the Senator has highlighted. I thank her for the feedback.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I thank all the witnesses for joining us today. I thank them for their ongoing support and engagement. I recently attended an event in Washington, which Enterprise Ireland hosted together with Amazon, regarding how we can continue to grow, expand and use opportunities on both sides of the Atlantic. Those sorts of initiatives are very much welcome.

I want to touch on the composition of the organisation's board first. When Enterprise Ireland's chief executive was here several weeks ago, it struck a chord with me when she referenced smaller businesses in rural towns with a turnover of roughly €5 million and the challenges they would have right now. She specifically mentioned them. However, when I look at the witnesses' board, it is very illustrious. It has the big four, academics, the top six educational institutes, medtech, restaurant chains, finance, digital and chemical engineering. Do the witnesses think that is relatable to those €5 million-turnover businesses?

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

All those members of the board have started at some point in their journey in various positions.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Some 20, 30 or 40 years ago.

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

Certainly a long time, and there is no doubt about that. However, one thing we are very conscious of when dealing at board level with propositions, case studies and elements for support, is getting the micro-details from front-line people across Enterprise Ireland. I would certainly say there is not a disconnect between the board and local and smaller enterprise.

To be clear, there is a dividing line between the local enterprise office, LEO, and its responsibilities for smaller enterprise vis-á-vis what Enterprise Ireland is dealing with. In the context of the local economy and local jobs, anything up to 50 jobs is dealt with by the LEOs. Then, in the context of having more than ten employees on an exporting basis, that moves into the Enterprise Ireland field immediately. Coming back to deal with the issue, I would not agree there is a disconnect or there is no recognition.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I asked the question; I did not agree or disagree with it.

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

Maybe I am interrupting it too bluntly or directly but I am very conscious, because of strong academic backgrounds or positions, the board is very grounded in the context of the needs of the economy and the people.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Mr. Woulfe mentioned the transition from LEOs to Enterprise Ireland. I think of it as almost like jumping across a bridge or a river and that bridge needs to be solid and firm. However, I see it as an area where there can be a little frustration or concern. Maybe it is a level of inertia, I do not know, but I ask Enterprise Ireland to give it attention.

The national enterprise hub has been a huge success but the one question I would ask relates to there being over 300 supports on it. Is that too many supports? Should we be filtering these down into less of a selection in order that it spreads further across, rather than trying to be direct with every single one of them?

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

Possibly but I would not jump to a conclusion without having some study done on it and getting feedback from users to say if it can be better. From recollection, it has not even been two years in existence yet. It was July 2024 when the hub was introduced. I take on board the Deputy's point and maybe we should do an assessment now of its impact and how it could be better. That is what we are about.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I raise it as a positive and constructive piece.

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

I accept that.

John Clendennen (Offaly, Fine Gael)
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From a regional perspective, correct me if I am wrong but Enterprise Ireland does its reporting on a regional rather than a county basis. If I look at the county of Offaly and its development plan, zoning and potential areas of interest for further investment and development, how do we tie into that from an Enterprise Ireland perspective? If we were to land a big foreign direct investment for the county in the morning, how does that process work in terms of the ecosystem to support it?

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

If the Deputy does not mind, I will ask my colleague Mr. Christal for detail from an operational point of view, as he has the operational expertise that I would not have from a board point of view. Before Mr. Christal does respond, what would be important to say is that Enterprise Ireland operates in the regions and reports in regions but equally we dive down into the individual counties. All of the regions were positive last year, but within the actual regions there were some counties where, for various reasons, there was not as much progress made. I know those counties. For example, last year from an agricultural point of view, cattle slaughtering was down, cattle numbers to factories were down and those counties that had animal processing factories were generally impacted by that. That was a statistic. Record prices were prevailing but numbers were down. There are different things in every county that would have influenced it or there are reasons behind it and Enterprise Ireland looks at that. That is information that is provided to the board.

Mr. Christal might deal with the Deputy's question.

Mr. Mark Christal:

From Enterprise Ireland's perspective, the Deputy's question kind of loops with our focus, which is very much at regional level in terms of our work with companies in regions. Taking the midlands region and County Offaly, it is about our team engaging with the clients to support those companies in their growth. We have some fantastic companies in every region and every county in Ireland that we very much support.

The second part of the Deputy's question touched on the connection with FDI. It is a really important part of what we do, which is the collaboration with the IDA and IDA client companies. We see big opportunities for many of our clients in the supply chains of the multinationals. The Deputy referenced Amazon, which is a really good example, and there are many others. The focus on using that connectivity and collaboration between our indigenous companies and the FDI base is a real opportunity and one on which we very much partner with our colleagues in the IDA to benefit those multinational companies that are here and that are so important to our economy but also to provide that opportunity for our own indigenous companies.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses for being here. It is a good opportunity for the committee members to get to know Mr. Woulfe and to wish him well in the job ahead. My first question concerns FDI. What are Enterprise Ireland's plans to address the imbalance there? While there are obviously indigenous businesses that create the majority of employment, 80% of our corporation tax and exports come from FDI. Obviously, this has become more acute in the context of global volatility. How will Enterprise Ireland measure success in reducing that 80% figure? What does Mr. Woulfe have in mind in terms of how to do it and what figure would he like to see that being at?

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

There are a number of things happening in the context of the strategy. I will refer to two points in particular. One is start-up Ireland, a strategy that is currently being developed and will be launched very shortly in the context of Enterprise Ireland. It follows on from the National Digital Research Centre, NRDC, programme. That programme is about to see the light of day so we will see it very shortly.

The other point we are very focused on is scaling. Scaling will be the route to supporting businesses to get a lot more businesses with more than 250 employees. In fact, in our five-year plan the target is to have, by 2029, 150 extra businesses that have more than 250 employees. They will need support to get to that position and to create the next million euro turnover and revenue businesses.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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I want to ask specifically about scaling throughout the island and the North being the first to scale up. What are Enterprise Ireland's specific plans about having a co-ordinated strategy for the island to be able to facilitate that scaling up in the first instance so we have a bigger market?

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

If we take the initiative that has just been released in the context of scaling up and to meet that target, we recently issued a pre-tender notice for support to assist the team professionally and to assist the individual companies within that bracket of 150 I referred to. It is called ATLAS - accelerating transformation leadership for ambitious scaling - and that programme was only announced last week. That is a mechanism and that is an investment by Enterprise Ireland and by the taxpayer to support those companies to get corrected that 80% figure the Deputy spoke about.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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In terms of investment, how much of it is invested in scaling up in the North, to the North-South-----

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

I do not have the exact details on that but can we follow up on that.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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If Mr. Woulfe could give the committee a note, as we are so limited on time today, specifically on what Enterprise Ireland's plans are for the whole integration of the North and South and having one economic unit in terms of enterprises and how we develop them and scale them up, that would be really useful. I am sure Mr. Woulfe will be at the committee many times and we can discuss that in detail at another time. That is very important and is an area that has probably been neglected heretofore.

Mr. Mark Christal:

Can I make one brief comment in respect to the Deputy's question? We can follow up with that note, as the chair has confirmed. We collaborate very closely with Invest NI in the work it does. A really good example that ties to the Deputy's question about scaling is our leadership for growth programme, which is focused on the CEOs of companies. We will have companies that are based in the North of Ireland participating in that programme and have done so for many years. It is a collaborative engagement between the companies on the island but also focused on the CEOs and their ambitions to drive their businesses. There is a lot of collaboration but we can follow up with further details.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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It is very important that there is a formal framework for that so that is not just on an ad hoc or project by project basis and that there is a real integrated strategy. I do not feel we are using the whole of the island in a way. I am glad to see Enterprise Ireland's collaboration with Invest NI but the more that is formalised and the more targets are set and measured, the more successful it is likely to be.

Are there specific supports available through Enterprise Ireland to address the energy crisis and energy costs for businesses? Is there anything new during the past couple of months, at least since the Iran-----

Mr. Mark Christal:

Yes, we have a range of supports available to help on the sustainability agenda.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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Does Enterprise Ireland have anything new? Was there anything new introduced during the past month or so that we might not know about in the way we have had some supports for-----

Mr. Mark Christal:

There have been no new supports during the past month.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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In regard to the supports Enterprise Ireland currently has, does Mr. Christal have a breakdown of who is drawing those down? What specific energy supports would Enterprise Ireland have for people who have businesses who may be watching this meeting today and are really concerned because their costs have gone up due to the energy crisis?

Mr. Mark Christal:

We do not currently have direct energy subvention costs that go to our clients. There was a scheme a number of years ago that was run on a short-term basis during the previous spike in energy costs arising from the conflict with Russia and Ukraine. It was a closed, fixed-term scheme at that time. We have a wide range of sustainability supports that are designed to help our clients move to more renewables and be less reliant on fossil fuels. There are a range of supports from consultancy supports to supporting larger capital investments within our companies.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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That is obviously a longer term thing. To prevent closures of any SMEs and to address the current crisis we are in, I am very surprised to hear that there are no new additional supports being made available. I will speak to the Minister, Deputy Burke, about that. Indeed, I spoke to him when he was here eight weeks ago about the need to have that plan ready to go because we could see what was going to happen in terms of an energy crisis, particularly for the enterprises that are energy intensive.

I have a lot more questions, but I know the Chair will want to move on to the next speaker. Maybe we will get a second round.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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We are tight on time. I am so sorry, and I appreciate that.

Albert Dolan (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Mr. Woulfe and Mr. Christal for being here with us today. We wish Mr. Woulfe the very best of luck with his new role in Enterprise Ireland as chairperson. The point he made earlier about governance is critical. At the end of the day, there is an executive leadership team in place in Enterprise Ireland, and Mr. Woulfe's job is going to be ensuring that the board has appropriate governance and oversight of every activity that Enterprise Ireland undertakes.

Today, we are discussing his strategic priorities and what his vision is in terms of better governance and managing the operations of Enterprise Ireland from a governance perspective. Since he came into the role, is there anything glaringly obvious at this point that he will change?

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

I thank the Deputy for the good wishes. I have had an advantage in the sense that I have been on the board for a couple of years, so from that point of view, I am familiar with quite a lot. From a governance point of view and from my experience of boards in general, I am proud of Enterprise Ireland's board and the competence and capability within it. We also work very much through our sub-boards, such as audit and risk. We have quite a sizeable investment and the investment portfolio review committee, IPRC, has a very strong role in the governance side. We have a subcommittee dealing with people and HR. There are over 850 employees. Our greatest asset is our employees, outside of the financial assets we get from Government and so on. Equally, we have a special projects committee. It is the combination of all that leads to good governance.

Is there an immediate void? No, and the current structure is working quite well. I am quite happy that it provides comfort and confidence to me, as chair, right now. We do regular evaluations to know whether our model is working correctly under the direction of the head of corporate governance here, Dr. Paula Maguire. It is probably two years ago since we did it last and it is currently an agenda item for the time ahead. That is just to make sure that we evaluate whether we are effective from the point of view governance. It is not to self-regulate, but to self-analyse.

Albert Dolan (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Mr. Woulfe may have been on multiple different types of board and probably has a wide range of board experience. If he has been on Enterprise Ireland's board for the past few years as an ordinary board member, he might not have been in the position that he is now of leading the board and he might not always have agreed with the direction the board went in with certain things. That is the nature of a board - it needs contrarian views and challenging opinions. Is there something that Mr. Woulfe wants to drive forward with in his tenure and he is excited about? What is that focus for him? Where does he see Enterprise Ireland's role going in the coming years? We are heading into an incredibly turbulent time with the advance of AI. Many companies see this as a huge opportunity and a chance to gain efficiencies and productivity. There is also a cost there, including a people cost. We have built the success of this country off the back of knowledge work and have a really well-educated workforce. We have been innovators and have been doing really well. Mr. Woulfe has been on many boards. He is now the leader of this board. What is he most excited to focus on in this role and how does he see Enterprise Ireland's role evolving over the coming years, given the changing landscape?

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

Enterprise Ireland's track record is exemplary, and it is a much-admired organisation within the State. I know that from being a user and a client for many years. From that point of view, it is that link, that support, that crutch people need going through business.

Coming back to the issue of what my priority is, I sat through some working groups in the context of formulating the current strategy for the years 2025 to 2029. What is most exciting - people will often ask if it is attainable - is that the strategy to get to 275,000 jobs by 2029 and €50 billion in exports from those companies is a stretch, but I would much prefer to have something that is in sight and slightly out of reach at the moment but that we can reach if we stretch. That is the piece that excites me. There should not be an idle day nor an idle thought in the context of what we and the team in Enterprise Ireland need to do to deliver. If we can add 35,000 more jobs by 2029, that is a success.

When I look back at the Irish economy and employment in my earlier days when I joined the industry, there were in the region of 1.2 million people employed. Today, in the very same geography, there are 2.8 million people. Some 1.6 million more jobs have been created in that period of time. If we fulfil the strategy, which is the ambition, that to me will be the greatest contribution we can make.

Albert Dolan (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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What Mr. Woulfe has said is such a critical piece that has to be focused on for where we are in this country right now. Looking back at where we have come from and where we are now with the significant levels of employment, it is vital to recognise how far we have come and the opportunities that have been created on this island. It is important that Enterprise Ireland continues in that vein.

Do I have time for one more question?

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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Unfortunately, I was just about to interject there. We have a number of speakers left, but we have to vacate the committee room for the next committee by around 3.10 p.m. We are not going to get to everyone.

Albert Dolan (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Go raibh maith agaibh, Mr. Woulfe and Mr. Christal. I thank the rest of the team as well.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I gave up half of my time in the last committee meeting. The next slot is Fianna Fáil's, so I am going to take that. We will try to give the remaining time to the other witnesses.

Mr. Woulfe is no stranger to me. We have known each other for a very long time. It is a small world. I am delighted to see where he is now, and I congratulate him on his appointment by the Minister. Mr. Woulfe brings a huge depth of experience from his experience in the agrifood sector and the success of Dairygold as a company. It is the second largest employer in my constituency, after Stryker. Mr. Woulfe knows that my father is a Dairygold supplier and my mother worked with Dairygold for nearly four decades. It is a small connection but I wanted to state it on the record.

We are entering into a phase of enormous disruption because of artificial intelligence, and this fails under the remit of this committee. Traditional forms of employment are facing huge upheaval and disruption in the next number of years. It is something I often quote, but we were speaking about Anthropic's prediction that up to 60% of blue-collar jobs in the United States could be impacted negatively by AI by 2030. We have to get ready for that transition.

Something that I am passionate about in a personal capacity and something that I have tried to advocate for in my role as Chair of this committee is that we need to do more to support young entrepreneurs in the fintech space and working with incubators. I was delighted to hear Mr. Woulfe reference the NDRC because there were significant issues there in respect of that. I have been lucky to work with likes of Ms Martina Fitzgerald in Scale Ireland. It is doing really wonderful work. I have also been up on site with Dogpatch Labs to see the excellent work that is going on up by EPIC on the River Liffey.

Ireland, as a small country of 5.6 million people, and with 7 million people on the island as a whole, has built one of the best knowledge economies in the world. We are missing a trick in harvesting the expertise we have built through working with multinational companies and also homegrown companies. Mr. Woulfe was chief executive of one of the leading ones here in the country. He spoke about the role he has not only in governance but also in strategic direction. Do we need to do more? I have presented to seven members of the Cabinet, including the Taoiseach, on the need for Ireland to have a major innovation district, a bit like what has been done in Boston with the innovation mile. I am referring to having a world-class campus for the very best of what we have to offer here, bringing in international expertise and harvesting the enormous skill set we have to fully realise our potential. I acknowledge we have had some great successes.

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

I thank the Cathaoirleach for the kind words.

I referred earlier to NDRC. Its successor is currently in gestation, if I may use that word. It will be launched very soon. We have Startup Ireland. We have an event next week and there is going to be a lot of activity in that regard. Reference has often been made to Station F in France and what has happened in that space. We are considering remodelling and reinvesting very significantly in Startup Ireland. Having a physical location like what the Cathaoirleach described, whereby you can walk in and where companies and those with ambition can engage directly with people, bringing things to a new level, is what is involved.

On the knowledge economy, I get what has been said. I am not disagreeing in any fashion. It is a very good assessment. Very significantly, we are addressing right now the area of critical AI and digital needs. We are moving to a digital economy. It is a slower move for some than would be expected, but others have advanced very far. Within the organisation, we have quite an amount of work going on where AI is going to assist our clients. That is what the reach-out involves now. It is a matter of how companies can use AI for their betterment and success to make them efficient. We will see a lot more in this space. This has only evolved over the past 18 months to two years. It was not spoken about three years ago, or was referred to only very minimally if referred to in the context of debate and discussion.

We are very much focused on the navigation of AI skills and making provision for clients in this regard. In fact, the board has had a number of presentations recently on this to finalise a policy and support the initiatives around what is required.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I am glad to hear Mr. Woulfe say that in response. It is a sitting duck. Mr. Woulfe referred to Station F. One of the key funders behind that was Xavier Niel, who owns a huge share in Eir. There are companies in Ireland that have some of the best minds in the world involved in respect of entrepreneurial activity. It might not require that much Exchequer intervention if a credible plan is put forward in conjunction with both the Department and Dublin City Council. That is a huge opportunity.

I am coming at this with the IFSC in mind, wondering whether there is potential for rejuvenating or retrofitting it into a modern, fit-for-purpose national campus with some of the best entrepreneurial activity in the world, having regard to what is within a two-hour travelling distance. I want to put it on Mr. Woulfe’s radar. I hope to speak to him about this again.

I am very concerned about regional employment and how we can support locations in rural Ireland. I grew up in Youghal, a town that had seen considerable industrial decline. We need to do more with agencies like Enterprise Ireland and of course IDA Ireland to identify locations that are disadvantaged and need investment. Is that on Mr. Woulfe’s radar as somebody who grew up and lives in a rural community? Is it on his agenda to work with areas like Youghal and other parts of the country that need to see more work done to attract investment and enterprise?

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

I thank the Chair. I am very focused on the relationship between the local enterprise offices, LEOs, and Enterprise Ireland. We have been very focused on that for the past couple of months, so much so that the person managing the LEOs within Enterprise Ireland will be with the board on a bimonthly basis to give an update on what is happening so we will not miss a trick in any area and so we will reach out to every area to the same extent.

There are 31 LEOs. It is a matter of ensuring that in places like Youghal, east Cork and north Cork, we are effective, can respond to what we hear and provide the appropriate resources and attention. In the initial phase, the local enterprise aspect is the first port of call. On major investment, whether involving Enterprise Ireland from an indigenous point of view or IDA Ireland in respect of FDI, there is an obligation on us to ensure places like those referred to by the Chair receive due attention and are given an opportunity.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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It is worth referring to many of the IDA Ireland advance facilities that are now closed down, as in Fermoy. Mr. Woulfe will be very familiar with my constituency because he worked there for so long. There are many examples of facilities given out in token leases that are sitting idle. A couple in Youghal have gone to rack and ruin. There might be a chance through Enterprise Ireland to allow companies to scale up in their towns. That might be considered. I am working on a number of projects locally in Youghal to determine what we can do to help companies to scale up in, or relocate to, the region. My time has expired but we will discuss this further. I thank Mr. Woulfe for his response.

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

I thank the Chair.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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We might split the remaining time by giving five minutes each, if that is okay. We will hear from the Leas-Chathaoirleach, Deputy Brian Brennan, first, and he is to be followed by Senator McCarthy.

Brian Brennan (Wicklow-Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I apologise as I missed the start of the session. I congratulate Mr. Woulfe on his new position and wish him well. He has a great history, but he is entering his role in very interesting times.

I have three questions. The first is on our dependence on FDI in the current geopolitical situation. I really worry about our tax intake in this regard and the plan we have in place if this goes awry.

The second is on AI, which has been mentioned previously. I read the opening statement and am aware there is a focus within Enterprise Ireland on support and the adoption of AI by existing companies. How many jobs are we going to lose? What do we do with the people who lose jobs as a result? How do we retrain them? Do we have a plan for this in place?

Third, could I get a brief outline, maybe from Mr. Christal, on how Enterprise Ireland chooses which companies to support? Is the choice based on the company or who shouts the loudest, or is it based, as the Chair touched on, on black spots in regions? I refer to the idea of support in rural Ireland. Having people working and living in their own towns is so important. I met a young girl last weekend who spends 24 hours every week in her car driving from the south east to Dublin. Mentally and in terms of the cost of fuel and her carbon footprint, so many boxes are ticked negatively.

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

I thank the Deputy. While Mr. Christal is thinking about that, let me deal with the first two aspects raised, in the context of the dependence on FDI. The first point is recognition, and we recognise there is an issue.

We are responsible for indigenous industry in Enterprise Ireland. We regard the current strategy, which is in year one, as helping to assist and get to the platform we spoke about.

Outside of the start-up side, we see the scaling side as really important. We do not have that huge number of indigenous industries that have more than €1 billion in exports.

Brian Brennan (Wicklow-Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Absolutely.

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

The issue we have is that target of 150 companies with more than 250 people, not quantifying revenues or anything for the moment. To support that scaling agenda is certainly going to help to put the balance better than it is today. I refer to that 80% we are depending on. Within the strategy, 150 companies with over 250 employees by 2029 is a direction of travel that will give more jobs and will equally create a balance in the context of indigenous versus foreign direct. That is a counter as I see it.

In the context of the AI side, we have had a lot of curveballs thrown at us as an economy over the past number of years. If you go back to Brexit, it is coming up on the tenth anniversary on 23 June since that decision was taken. We ebbed and flowed in relation to serious challenges, even in getting product off the island, but that was all dealt with. We went through the Covid period and that was dealt with. We went through the massive inflation around Ukraine in 2022 and we dealt with that. From that point of view, you have to look positively on the AI piece. Where can it help us be more efficient? AI is a worldwide phenomenon. It is not an Irish challenge; it is a global challenge. It is a global tool that we can use to greater effect to run business and be efficient.

Brian Brennan (Wicklow-Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I am with Mr. Woulfe on that but it is the loss of jobs. That is the point I am trying to make.

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

There are potentially jobs in certain areas and certain defined types of employment that will be impacted. Quantifiably, we are speculating on that at this point in time. There is anecdotal evidence to say that you will be able to displace certain administrative types of jobs, but there are some other jobs with a more technical requirement that there will be a greater requirement for going into the future. We are conscious of it. We do not have a toolkit with solutions but the impact of AI is something we are very conscious of in the context of Enterprise Ireland.

Operationally, that is something the team is very focused on. They are asking where we can use it to our advantage, where the risks associated with it are and how we neutralise the risks. That is a focus of attention within the organisation and the management team.

Brian Brennan (Wicklow-Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Mr. Christal has half a second to come back on that.

Mr. Mark Christal:

To add to what the chairman said, in the conversations we are having now on a daily basis with our clients about their future growth and AI, one of the key areas we are focusing on is that retraining and transformation agenda within companies and what it means.

In regard to the Deputy's question on regional development, I will make three quick points, if I may. First, regional development is absolutely critical to Enterprise Ireland, as the chairman said. It is very much about trying to create more jobs in our regions. To give a sense of that, 69% of the new jobs created last year were outside of Dublin. It is also about sustaining what we have, to take the Deputy's point. It is about sustaining the jobs we have and building on the-----

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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Okay. I am so sorry. Unfortunately, Senator McCarthy will not be able to-----

Mr. Mark Christal:

Apologies.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I thank Mr. Woulfe and Mr. Christal for being here today. I congratulate Mr. Woulfe on his new role. I wish him absolutely the best. Coming from Dairygold after 42 years, he will bring over a lot of experience. I presume there are crossovers he will be able to bring to the new role.

I am from County Kildare. We have the Pfizers, the Intels and all of the big multinationals. FDI is huge but I am always worried for the likes of Leixlip or Celbridge in that if ever we were to lose the FDI from the likes of Intel, we would be in serious trouble. It looks like our focus is very much on international companies. How do we support indigenous companies more? I have a business in Kildare that my father started in 1967. We are closing it down because the whole area of retail has changed. We are closing the furniture side of it down. People are now going online. Even local people are buying off us online and we are shipping locally, so it has all radically changed. For the ordinary person out there, how do you support indigenous enterprises in Ireland?

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

I thank the Senator for the kind remarks. Again, we go back to the start-up piece. We want a more innovative economy and a more innovative structure within industry and we are prepared to support that. Enterprise Ireland is supporting start-ups. If you take Stripe as an example-----

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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That is bad example because it was not supported. It said it would be supported now, but back then that is why it ended up in-----

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

Yes. That is why I would hope that Enterprise Ireland today is in a fit state-----

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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Okay.

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

-----to be the first port of call for an emerging thought process like the Collison brothers had back in the day. Enterprise Ireland is pro-risk. It is difficult to say we are pro-risk because normally you are averse to risk. We are pro-risk in the context of supporting start-ups. Of course, you evaluate the business, tease out the business plan, have it independently assessed and see whether it is roadworthy but in regard to the start-up piece, businesses are going to be future. The next Kerrygold, Dairygold or Glanbia is going to be starting up at some point in time, growing and supported by the likes of an Enterprise Ireland organisation.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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Mr. Woulfe's statistics of 1.2 million to 2.8 million people are amazing, when you look back. How does Enterprise Ireland decide what sectors to support and where to focus in on? What is the process for that?

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

There is an operational piece I will go into but without getting into all the detail, there is a comprehensive budget in the first instance. We support it based on the strategy, which is the first instance. If I were giving the Senator a sort of a feel from a budget point of view, our budget is just under €600 million. If you look in the context of organisations and where it is divvied into, approximately €80 million is going into direct equity and seed capital. That is a mechanism for taking investment and getting equity involved in start-ups. You have grants of over €110 million. There are mechanisms and a whole range of schemes in that particular space to support companies. You have the whole issue of research and development and the issue around-----

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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What is the budget for that?

Mr. Jim Woulfe:

-----the technology centres. The technology centres and research and development is €105 million. There is a whole range of categorised headings where the investment is coming, right down to the local enterprise offices, LEOs, which is €60 million. To be clear, there is a broad spectrum of initiatives, policies and support, depending on the particular category you are in, and that is across the entire indigenous industry spectrum. The Senator can rest assured that whatever category you are in, we are there as an organisation to give the support.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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Mr. Woulfe has a piece of work to do but I wish him absolutely all the best in it.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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Unfortunately, our discussion has to come to an end, as the next committee is waiting. I apologise to the European affairs committee for our overrun.

I express my gratitude to Enterprise Ireland's chairman, Mr. Jim Woulfe. I wish him all the best in his role and his team with him. They are very welcome here today and I thank them for the information. I am sure we will be meeting again in the future.

The committee now stands adjourned. I wish everybody a happy Bealtaine or May Day. I propose that the joint committee will now adjourn until Wednesday, 6 May 2026 at 12.30 p.m., when the committee will meet again in public. Is that agreed? Agreed.