Mr. Brian McDowell:

One can see it on the M7 and different roadways coming into Dublin in particular. They were working perhaps in the local branch or hub for their two days rather than travelling from Galway or Cork or wherever to Dublin.

Now if a contract states that the head office is Dublin, they need to come into Dublin. People are now making a decision that they do not really want to be travelling, as it probably means spending two nights in Dublin, so they leave. It may be easier for a person to leave and look for something else. That is the kind of effect it is having on our members.

I will make that case again on remote and hybrid that people are working in the office on a hybrid arrangement. When the case is made on the collaboration bit, they are collaborating, they are meeting their colleagues, they are doing everything that is being asked of them over the two days or whatever it might be. As members can imagine, we did a lot of surveys on this throughout the sector. We did one before Covid and one after Covid. In one example, when we asked our thousands of members how many worked fully remotely at that stage before Covid, we got 2%. That figure jumped during Covid straight away to 52%. These employments have been making enormous profits since then so they cannot make the case for productivity when they are making €2 billion in profits. I think it would be very difficult to make that case.

However, we are here from the unions, and I will make the case that we are looking to resolve these issues with the employer. That can only be done, and those negotiations can only happen, if we can collectively bargain with those employers. Employees in other companies, particularly the multinationals that have said to their employees they now need to be in for five days, have no trade unions and nobody representing them to try to negotiate with their employers. Across the sector, particularly the multinationals, they are calling employees back where they were fully remote or may have been on site for one day or two days. Now, employees are told they are wanted in the office for the full five days. Part of it comes down to training, where it seems easier to manage somebody when they are sitting in front of you rather than on a Teams call. Again, upskilling and everything else is involved throughout different organisations when they do that. A Government hub strategy has been published, or is due to be published. Why can employers not use those hubs for their employees rather than making them travel 200 km or whatever it might be?