Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Apologies have been received from Deputy David Cullinane. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú is here in substitution. The purpose of the meeting is to consider Committee Stage of the Health (Amendment) (Home Support Providers) Bill 2025. I welcome the Minister of State for older people and housing, Deputy Kieran O'Donnell, who is accompanied by officials from his Department.

I remind members of the constitutional requirement that members should be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate where they are not adhering to this constitutional requirement. Therefore, any member who attempts to participate from outside the precinct will be asked to leave the meeting. In this regard, I ask any members participating on MS Teams that, prior to making a contribution to the meeting, you confirm you are on the grounds of the Leinster House complex.

Before we move to a detailed consideration of the Bill, I understand the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, wishes to make some brief introductory remarks.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Cathaoirleach and the committee for taking time today to discuss the Health (Amendment) (Home Support Providers) Bill 2025. By means of amendments to the Health Act 2007, the Bill will introduce for the first time the registration and regulation by HIQA and the chief inspector of social services of all home support providers in Ireland. Among other measures, it will provide the chief inspector with a range of powers and will make it an offence to provide a home support service without being registered. The chief inspector will also be responsible for monitoring and assessing compliance of registered home support providers against regulations and HIQA standards. The new system of regulation for home support will ensure that the public can be confident that the services provided are of a high standard and will bring Ireland in line with best international practice.

The Bill was published in December 2025 and was brought to Second Stage in the Dáil in January. I would like to thank Deputies for their contributions to a constructive debate on the Bill on Second Stage. The development of the regulatory framework has been a key priority for Government and represents an integral part of the ongoing development of a statutory home care scheme as committed to in the programme for Government.

Today, I am bringing forward 32 amendments to the Bill. These are primarily technical in nature and seek to improve the clarity and readability of the Bill. Additionally, officials continue to engage with the Office of Parliamentary Counsel and colleagues from the Department of Children, Disability and Equality to ensure the functions and responsibility of both Departments are appropriately reflected in legislation. As such, should further amendments be required I will bring these forward on Report Stage. I look forward to a very productive discussion with members on the Bill and working towards the enactment of the legislation as soon as possible. I want to acknowledge the fantastic and invaluable work done by home carers and service providers to people availing of their services throughout Ireland.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State. As members know, a total of 32 amendments from the Minister of State have been tabled and a grouping list has been provided. We will now consider each amendment and section of the Bill in turn.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I would like to speak on the section. There is a broader issue here with regard to how home care support services operate. There are now two types of financial support from the HSE through tendering arrangements or alternatively through a grant-aided arrangement. That has given rise to enormous pay inequity between workers. Serious industrial action is taking place among some services, principally because of those issues. We need to get this right in terms of the regulation of home care support services, particularly if we are to make sure they are on a sustainable footing into the future. I have significant concerns about the tendering arrangements because ultimately they allow the consolidation of bigger operators in the sector and smaller, independent, community-based services are either bought out or simply are not quick enough to put their finger on the button when packages come up for tender. That is the nature of how they are tendered now - they go up online and whoever has their finger on the button first gets it. That requires resources and scale. Sometimes organisations tendering do not even know if they have the capacity to deliver on it or not. There needs to be an overhaul of how tendering services are delivered. In the context of section 4 and trying to put them on a statutory footing, we will not get this right unless the Minister looks at the funding arrangements and makes sure they are on a sustainable basis into the future.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Sherlock for her contribution. To give context, the Deputy will be aware that the shortage of care workers is an urgent priority in Ireland, as it is in many European countries. The strategic workforce advisory group, SWAG, was set up in March 2022. Under the SWAG, a new and improved HSE home support authorisation scheme has been in place since 2023 for payments to approved private and voluntary providers of home support on behalf of the HSE. This delivers on the commitment for sectoral reforms such as payment for travel time for home support providers, paying carers the national living wage at a minimum and bringing legacy rates in line with the new revised rates of funding. The authorisation scheme previously ran to August. This year is it running from August to December in line with the budgetary cycle and Estimates but ownership of the authorisation scheme lies with the HSE. The HSE negotiates with providers, factors in the rate and cost increases and makes a case to the Department of Health. The Department of Health then negotiates price increases with the Department of public expenditure and reform. The average core indirect has increased by 19% since April 2023. I think Deputy Sherlock's point is about the administration of the scheme as much as anything else.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is a current scheme in place that was negotiated between the home care providers and the HSE. The HSE is developing a new operating model for home support that will take account of all services. This will consider how commissioning works and how the authorisation scheme can be expanded to all providers including those currently funded under section 39. This should create alignment across the sector. The HSE is doing a body of work around how the scheme operates.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When will we see the conclusion of that work?

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are putting legislation in place. We are looking for that to be concluded as quickly as possible. We will come back to the committee with an update when we have it.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is critically important. If we are putting it on a statutory basis-----

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I appreciate that.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----we have to have sustainability of those operating in the sector as well.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is a point well made. It has been made to us so I am aware of it. We will follow up with the HSE.

Colm Burke (Cork North-Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Bill. I introduced a Private Members' Bill on this issue back in 2020. I am delighted that it is now progressing even though it is five years later.

Concerning private contractors providing home care, there is misinformation out there which needs to be carefully handled. In running any private company, there are a lot of additional costs that are not there within the HSE, even simple things like the payment of commercial rates for administrative offices and public liability insurance, which is a huge expense on home care providers. There is a whole administrative cost to private contractors which is buried in other accounts in the HSE. For instance, a simple issue like public liability insurance is an overall figure within the HSE whereas for a private contractor it is a huge additional expense. That needs to be kept in mind in the context of contractors submitting for tenders. It is not just about the employees who provide the home care, it is also all of the additional costs. There is the same issue in respect of public and private nursing homes. A public nursing home does not pay commercial rates whereas an average private nursing home with 60 beds pays on average around €60,000 per annum, and likewise for public liability insurance. These things need to be carefully watched in how home care is managed and making sure there is sufficient funding so that it is a viable option to keep people in it. It is also important to ensure there is adequate pay for the home carers providing that service. They are issues that need to be carefully monitored, especially because we now have more than 860,000 people over 65. In the next three to four years, it will be 1 million. We do not have the number of nursing home beds - I am not saying we should create more. The more people who can be kept at home and provided care at home, the better. It is far cheaper in real terms for the State as well. We need to be very careful of the funding issue and make sure there is adequate funding in respect of the hours provided.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A scheme is negotiated between the private providers and the HSE every year. They have negotiated the current scheme up to December 2026. I expect all of the factors the Deputy raised are taken into account. The other issue is this legislation is about regulating the sector but more particularly for me it is a key integral step in delivering a statutory home care scheme. That will require a lot of additional staff in that space and more particularly in home care. I am very conscious of that. I will shortly do a survey of all home care workers to feed into the SWAG and to see exactly the results of the changes made. I see it very much as an integrated model. Funding is a key issue - we provided just under €1 billion for home support this year. It has increased significantly over the past number of years but there is a wider structural question going forward. The second point the Deputy raised is a key point.

Colm Burke (Cork North-Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The cost of nursing home care, I think, comes quite close to €1.6 billion or €1.7 billion-----

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is in total now. It is €1.3 billion from the State.

Colm Burke (Cork North-Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and we are looking after 30,000 people whereas for that €1 billion you are looking after a lot more people in home care and that is an issue. That is why you are getting better value for money in real terms.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are two issues there. First, there are certain people who will require nursing home care. That is the reality.

Colm Burke (Cork North-Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I accept that.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We want to work to keep people at home for as long as they wish to remain there and are able to. That is in line with Sláintecare. That is the journey we are on now. This Bill was a key priority for me when I came in. We have to have a process and the first step is to get the legislation implemented to regulate this sector, which is not regulated as we speak. This is why we are here today.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I think we all accept there needs to be regulation of the private home support sector. As we all know the importance of the service, it is about ensuring it is up to a particular standard from the point of view of safeguarding, safety and all those issues. A further issue is how little we have done on ensuring we deliver the entitlements for patients and a particular issue is that we are not dealing with personal assistance.

The idea of the first amendment was just that it is a good idea with anything to review it as soon as is practical. The idea behind the second one was to review conditions and rates of pay in the sector. We are looking for an IR framework to be applied to the sector through an employment regulation order. That is to guarantee pay and conditions across the sector. That is very important from the point of view of initial employment and then retention, which is a specific issue that always occurs. What we, and especially Deputy Cullinane, have seen over the years is issues with the HSE tender system. As happens with an awful lot of tendering systems from this State, it is the small providers that find it very difficult to compete for the hours due to how the model is structured. In the past there were local managers who could make arrangements that were equally cost-effective. It needs to be looked at. That is just the difficulty level. Sometimes we set these things up with all the checks and balances and in some cases we overdo it and we cut out the smaller operators that are offering a service we as a State would like to take them up on. We are talking about providers that have provided support for those in homes they and their wider family have been happy about. For somebody to stay in a job or be recruited, the rate of pay is the big consideration and an awful lot of community-based not-for-profits are saying the rate is too low. That can undercut quality and does not reflect the true cost of a high-quality service. That is always the danger when you go with a lowest-cost tender and all that. It is about ensuring we look at this holistically from a point of view of a framework that works for those who work in the system in order that we get the correct people in and thereafter that we can also ensure we do not have providers undercutting in a way that means they are then unable to deliver the quality of care needed. I ask the Minister of State to look at this at some point and given an answer on it.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will be led by the Chair. I am not certain what the status is of the amendments.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They cannot be moved but they can be reintroduced on Report Stage. We have gone past them. The Minister of State can respond if he is happy to discuss them.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am quite happy to discuss the amendments.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They can be reintroduced on Report Stage.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I appreciate the Minister of State offering that.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is that okay, Chair?

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is okay for the Deputy to get a response on them.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I apologise but I was with a Czech delegation. I am sure they were highly impressed with me.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will deal with amendment No. 1. This amendment, which was tabled by Deputy Cullinane, seeks to require the carrying out of a review of the Bill within three years of its coming into operation, which means from enactment. Under section 3, the Bill currently provides for a review of the operation after five years from enactment, which takes account of the timelines for the transitional provisions set out in section 69ZD of the proposed Part 8A. As this Bill will be introducing regulation to a sector for the first time, we have to ensure the framework is fully understood by all stakeholders. As such, a commencement period of up to 12 months is envisaged to allow for the organisation of ministerial regulations and HIQA national standards we cannot bring forward until legislation is enacted, as well as the development of guidance for both providers and service users in order to ensure the scope of the framework and the requirement for each stakeholder is well established.

The Bill also provides for a two-year transition period to allow HIQA to finalise the registration and inspection process and to provide an opportunity for providers to make any necessary adjustments to their service delivery to ensure they will be able to meet the requirements of the regulations once the transitional period ends. Thus the proposed amendment would seek a review of the operation of the Bill at the same time as the framework is set to become fully operational. The current timeframe provides for finalisation of ministerial regulations and the opportunity then for the providers to familiarise themselves with the requirements of the legislation and to make any necessary changes to ensure compliance and enough time for a regulatory framework to be operating to ensure a robust review of the operation of the framework is possible. For this reason I am not going to accept the amendment.

In layman's terms, we are doing a review within five years of enactment but we are really doing it within three years of it coming into operation.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister of State is saying there would be an issue if the amendment was made.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We would be reviewing it prior to it really coming in.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Okay.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are doing a review within three years of it coming into operation and I think that aligns.

Moving to amendment No. 2, I acknowledge the issue Deputy Cullinane raises through Deputy Ó Murchú; it is important. It is an issue the Government is actively addressing. The delivery of high-quality home support is dependent on the efforts of people who work in this sector. We covered some of this earlier. I take this opportunity to acknowledge the great work being done by home care workers who provide support and assistance to people of every age who are living at home with a wide range of medical conditions, disabilities and needs. Obviously I include the home care providers as well, whether public, private or voluntary.

As we continue to deliver on our Sláintecare commitments to increase the availability of care in the home and community and as Ireland continues to see people living for longer - which is to be celebrated - there will inevitably be an increase in the demand for home support. Ensuring we can attract trained workers in this sector is therefore a matter of high priority for the Government. In 2022, a multi-agency group was set up to examine issues relating to recruitment and retention of healthcare assistants, including home support workers. The strategic workforce advice group, also known as the SWAG, produced a report with 16 recommendations, many of which have already been delivered. The Department of Health is continuing to work with the HSE and other stakeholders and partners to deliver on the remaining recommendations. We will shortly be launching a national survey of healthcare assistants to provide us with important information on their terms and conditions. The results of this survey will be combined with the lessons from the SWAG report to help us identify our next priorities for workforce development.

It is also important to highlight much of the data the Deputy would like us to report on is not currently available or easily accessible, especially when the service provider is not State-funded. It is estimated a quarter of home support is in that category. That comes from a more recent ESRI report, which is independent. The information provisions set out in the Bill will provide HIQA with the power to collate and report on data of this type in order to inform national policy and planning. However, the relevant regulations must be brought by the Minister before this can commence. This is an important task and will be undertaken at the appropriate stage in the continuing development of this framework.

In summary, the Government has delivered the SWAG report that examines the relevant issues for healthcare assistants and continues to work actively on delivering its recommendations. The upcoming survey of home care workers and the regulations that will be made on foot of this Bill will therefore collect the data we need for developing effective policy responses. For that reason I will not be accepting this amendment.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister of State is saying the Department is collating the information and-----

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The legislation will provide HIQA with the powers to collect the data, which is critical. It is not just about regulation but about getting that empirical data we need from both the public organisations and the outside providers as well.

It is so that we get a holistic view.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is the Minister of State talking about pay rates and quality of service across the board, and the issue with the tendering system?

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

These will all be looked at in the context of the regulations themselves. It is about collating data. I cannot give the full details because that is something the Department is working on at the moment.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I get it. The big one is about the pay rates. It is how we get something that actually works and that we do not cut people out of the tendering system when we do not want to. All of it is about providing a service, which we might not be able to provide if people are being paid too little and the tendering system is cutting out some of those.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On that point, section 22 of the Act deals with regulations concerning home care providers. It states:

Regulations under subsection (1)(a) may provide for the following ... in relation to the home support provider, including ... information relating to the home support service offered by the home support provider ... information relating to where the home support provider provides a home support service [and] information relating to charges imposed on service users by the home support provider [and] where a registered home support provider is a member of a group of companies within the meaning of section 8 ... information relating to the group ... such [as] other information as the Minister may prescribe ... information in relation to any persons employed by the [company] ... provider, including the number of persons employed and the details of their employment by the home support provider ... staff turnover ... demographic information relating to the persons employed ... qualifications ... and training undertaken by, the persons employed, relating to their roles ... such other information as the Minister may prescribe [and] (c) information in relation to the service users to whom the home support provider provides a home support service, including: the number of service users, and the length of time during which a home support service has been provided by the home support provider ... demographic information relating to service users ... the health status and dependency level of service users ... information relating to the commencement of the provision of [the] home support service to new service users and the ceasing of the provision of a home support service to ... users [and] such other information as the Minister may prescribe.

It is quite comprehensive.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I get that, and all that information will be absolutely necessary. However, those two questions are a matter of addressing it from the point of view of a tender that works. Can that be looked at? It is also about having a proper industrial relations framework that can deliver rates of pay.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy will appreciate that I may refer to other members. The commissioning model and so forth is coming up here. The current commission has been highlighted by the various private providers. In the context of looking at a statutory scheme, this is something we will be looking at. We have to move forward to get a statutory home care scheme in place. The first step is here. No one has complete wisdom or knowledge in this area. We are all trying to move into that space and always going back to Sláintecare, which is about bringing it back to the community as well. These are matters we are taking on board.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Minister of State give any consideration to the idea of personal assistants? I get that issue falls to the Minister of State with responsibility for disability. Have they had an engagement on that and why is it not included in this?

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We have had intensive engagement with the Department of children about personal assistants, PAs. It has asked that they be excluded at the moment. There is a PA review group under the auspices of the Department of children and disability that is currently doing a body of work. That is engaging with disability groups and disability advocates. It is chaired by the HSE. We are open to whatever the Department of children comes back with and whether it is something it wants included on Report Stage. Once again, it is hugely important that the sector, and more particularly the service users, are engaged with.

On my St. Patrick's Day visit to Wales, I took the opportunity to meet with the minister over that area. At the moment, for four or fewer individuals, it does regulate in the PA space. They have deemed them to be PAs. In that situation PAs are excluded. We are working with our colleagues in the Department of children in this area. We will continue engaging following Committee Stage and if there are amendments, we will bring them forward.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is a process ongoing.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In the context of section 8 and data collection it is critically important that regulations be issued. That is my strong view-----

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are currently on section 4.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I know, but we moved to data collection.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are on section 4.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I was trying to be helpful.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Okay.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are currently on section 4. We can speak to section 8 when we come to it.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I speak to the establishment of the register and data collection under section 8. It is critically important that a ministerial regulation is issued to make provision for the exchange of information between HIQA, the Health and Safety Authority and the WRC. We can cast our minds back to last year and what we saw with the Emeis nursing homes and other nursing homes, where there are significant workers' rights issues and health and safety issues with regard to staff. At the moment, as I understand it there is no compulsion or provision for HIQA to engage in that data sharing when it finds circumstances in nursing homes. In the context of home care support providers, we believe it is critically important that provision is made for that data information sharing. It should not be the case that issues with regard to workers' rights just sit there and go nowhere else within HIQA but are passed on to the relevant authorities whether the HSA or the WRC.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Under section 69X(8) of the Act:

... the chief inspector shall, in accordance with any regulations ... provide such information submitted to the chief inspector under this section as is prescribed ... or data derived ... to the Minister ... the Minister for Children, Disability ... the Authority ... the Executive, and [any] such public bodies as are prescribed ... under section 101.

It is in section 9 of the Act. The Deputy is giving a generality about coming up with the register. Section 9 deals specifically with the sharing of information under section 69X. That is provided for there.

Marie Sherlock (Dublin Central, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Okay.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Amendments Nos. 3 to 8, inclusive, are related and may be discussed together.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 3:

In page 9, to delete line 15 and substitute “provided by a home support provider.”.

Section 9 inserts a new Part 8A to the principal Act ahead of Part 9 to provide for the registration of home support providers and consists of 29 sections. Section 69B provides for the definition of key terms used in Part 8 of the principal Act. This section also provides for exemption to the requirement to register as a home provider. Definitions of home support and home support provider are drafted to cover the main services provided by home support providers but also to ensure that the legislation would not be read as limiting the service that can be provided by a home support provider. This includes defining activities of daily living and instrumental activities of daily living to contextualise the type of service being provided while ensuring providers could offer services beyond activities of daily living, ADLs, and instrumental activities of daily living, IADLs. There are exemptions for service provided to fewer than three people, service provided without commercial gain and PA services, services provided within commercial gain, PA services funded by the HSE, providing services as a member of a relevant profession under the Health and Social Care Professionals Act 2005 and a person providing care for a child under section 36(1) of the Child Care Act 1991.

Under subsection 3, a home support provider that also provides a personal assistance service on behalf of the PA service is exempt from regulations but the home support is not. I dealt with that previously.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 4:

In page 9, to delete lines 23 to 40 and substitute the following: “(i) provides a home support service to specified persons in accordance with the terms and conditions referred to in subparagraph (iii),

(ii) provides a home support service comprised of support in relation to activities referred to in paragraph (a) or (b) of the definition of home support service to specified persons only, in accordance with the terms and conditions referred to in subparagraph (iii), and

(iii) is a person or body who or which pursuant to—

(I) any arrangement under section 38 of the Act of 2004,

(II) any assistance given in accordance with section 39 of the Act of 2004, or

(III) any other arrangement made with the Executive,

is subject to terms and conditions therein that require that specified persons shall, in respect of home support services received, be the persons to direct the way in which such services are provided to them by that person or body, as the case may be,”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 5:

In page 10, line 4, to delete “person is an individual with whom” and substitute “person or body with whom or with which, as the case may be,”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 6:

In page 10, to delete lines 14 to 35 and substitute the following: “(3) Where a home support provider—

(a) is a person or body who or which pursuant to—

(i) any arrangement under section 38 of the Act of 2004,

(ii) any assistance given in accordance with section 39 of the Act of 2004, or

(iii) any other arrangement made with the Executive, is subject to terms and conditions therein that require that specified persons shall, in respect of home support services received, be the persons to direct the way in which such services are provided to them by that person or body, as the case may be, and

(b) duly provides a home support service to specified persons in accordance with the terms and conditions referred to in paragraph (a),

the home support service referred in paragraph (b) provided by the person or body to specified persons in accordance with the terms and conditions referred to in paragraph (a) shall not be considered to be a home support service for the purposes of this Act.”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 7:

In page 10, between lines 35 and 36, to insert the following: “(4) In subsections (2) and (3), ‘specified person’ means a person who is provided with home support services and who—

(a) has attained the age of 18 years but has not, at the date on which he or she first applied for such services, attained the age of 65 years,

and

(b) has a disability.”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 8:

In page 10, line 38, to delete “Subject to section 69ZD” and substitute “Subject to sections 69B(2) and 69ZD”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 9:

In page 20, to delete lines 7 to 17 and substitute the following: “(3) A person shall not, with intent to deceive another person—

(a) hold out a person as being, or apply a name to a person that in any way describes the person as being, a registered home support provider of a particular description unless that person is a registered home support provider of that particular description, or

(b) hold out a premises as being, or apply a name to a premises that in any way describes it as being, the premises of a registered home support provider of a particular description unless the premises is the premises of a registered home support provider of that particular description.”.

This amendment also concerns section 9 of the Bill, which provides for the registration of home support providers. This amendment improves the clarity of provisions in the new section 69O concerning required or prohibited conduct in relation to home support provider.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 10:

In page 26, to delete lines 22 to 24 and substitute the following: “(b) cancel the registration of the home support provider or cancel the registration of the home support provider in respect of the particular business premises, as the case may be.”.

This amendment also concerns section 9 of the Bill, which provides for the registration of home support providers. This amendment improves the clarity of provisions in the new section 69ZA, which concerns cancellation of registration on closure of home support provider.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 11:

In page 29, to delete lines 8 and 9 and substitute the following: “(b) the existing provider shall not be considered, under section 73A, to be organising or managing the provision of a home support service as a home support provider which is not registered under this Act.”.”.

This amendment also concerns section 9 of the Bill, which provides for the registration of home support providers. This amendment improves the clarity of provisions in the new section 69ZD, which concerns transitional provision for registration of existing home support providers

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Amendments Nos. 12 to 20, inclusive, 24, 25, 30 and 31 are related and will be discussed together

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 12:

In page 29, line 20, to delete “service provider to a service user” and substitute “service provider referred to in paragraph (a) to a service user”.

This group of amendments concerns section 10, which provides for appointment by executive of persons to examine service providers that are home support providers; section 11, which concerns amendment of section 73 of the principal Act; section 14, which concerns amendment of section 74 of the principal Act; section 17, which concerns amendment of section 78A of the principal Act; and section 21, which concerns amendment of section 101 of the principal Act. This group of amendments improves the clarity regarding the ability of references within these provisions for service users and registered home support providers. They are technical amendments.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This issue was brought to our attention. There are very strong constitutional protections with regard to homes and adult safeguarding. The advice from the Law Reform Commission is that the home must be afforded additional protections in the context of inspections or investigations for home support. It is also a person's place of work but the consent of the person whose home it is must be protected. Is the Minister of State satisfied that consent alone is sufficient to withstand any constitutional challenge or should the wording be amended to require a higher bar for giving clear informed consent to inspection?

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is the Deputy talking about section 10 or section 11?

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sections 10 to 12, inclusive.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We have given careful consideration to this area. Section 11 of the Bill amends section 73 of the principal Act via the right of entry by an authorised person or the chief inspector. This section provides authorised persons and the chief inspector with the power to enter the business premises of a registered home support provider and the private dwelling of service users with their consent. In the case of the private dwelling, the authorised person or the chief inspector may conduct interviews in private but in the case of the service user, his or her family members or a nominated individual, these interviews are subject to their consent in making an examination of the home support service being provided at the premises.

Section 14 of the Bill, which amends section 74 of the principal Act, goes further to clarify that notwithstanding the sections on power of entry, the chief inspector or authorised person may not enter a dwelling other than with the consent of the occupier or a District Court warrant. A consent requirement in both sections seeks to ensure that the constitutional inviolability of the dwelling is reflected in this legislation. Section 75 of the principal Act details the requirement for obtaining a District Court warrant. Section 15 of the Bill amends this section, which requires the chief inspector or authorised persons to satisfy the District Court that there are reasonable grounds that there are relevant record or that an inspection is likely to disclose evidence of a contravention of the Act or regulation before a warrant can be used. Primarily, our focus was the service user.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is primarily to ensure that in all circumstances, his or her consent is required. Circumstances may arise in terms of HIQA and the District Court but in those situations, they will have to show proof of the grounds on which they are doing it. Ultimately, this is all about improving the quality and standard of service for the service user.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I get what the Minister of State is saying and I think we are all looking for the same net result. It has to be from the point of view of protecting the service user while there are obviously protections for those who are in their workplace but, again, it is about whether consent is strong enough or whether we will get caught on a legal technicality later on.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This legislation amends the Health Act 2007. The term "consent" is used throughout this Act, which is the primary Act, and to date, it has not resulted in any successful constitutional challenge. Therefore, consent appears to be a sufficient term within the legislation. Once again, we are amending the 2007 Act. The term "consent" is used throughout that Act and that has worked. Regulations will be key when it comes to the inspection process and will follow the legislation. Fundamentally, all deliberations on the legislation are about ensuring the standard of care to the resident.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The most important thing is the standard of care and making this as safe a place as possible.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Correct - the home is the home.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The home is the home.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are constitutional protections for the home.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I get it. Regarding due diligence, "consent" is the term used previously. There have been no particular issues and the Minister of State has done what needs to be done to ensure there is no need for more protective-----

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We have looked at that in great depth. One cannot claim to have a fount of knowledge but once again, we have gone through a process. This is all about regulating the sector. Fundamentally, it is around a simple premise, namely, improving the quality of care to the service user.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 13:

In page 30, to delete line 21 and substitute the following: “provided to a service user by a registered home support provider with the consent of the service user or”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 14:

In page 30, line 31, to delete “support service (other than a private” and substitute “support service by a registered home support provider (other than a private”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 15:

In page 30, to delete lines 34 to 36 and substitute the following: “(f) that is a private dwelling where a home support service is or was provided to a service user by a registered home support provider, with the consent of the service user or former service user concerned.”,”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 16:

In page 31, to delete lines 1 to 3 and substitute the following: “(i) by the insertion of “(in each case, other than a private dwelling where a home support service is or was provided to a service user by a registered home support provider)” after “subsection (2),”, and”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 17:

In page 31, line 33, to delete “service user” and substitute “service user by a registered home support provider”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 18:

In page 31, line 36, to delete “service user” and substitute “service user by a registered home support provider”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 19:

In page 31, line 39, to delete “service user” and substitute “service user by a registered home support provider”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 20:

In page 32, line 2, to delete “service user” and substitute “service user by a registered home support provider”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 21:

In page 32, line 32, to delete “this section and section 73B,” and substitute “this section,”.

This amendment concerns section 12, which provides for the amendment of section 73B of the principal Act and corrects a reference within that section. It is a technical amendment.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Amendments Nos. 22 and 23 are related and may be discussed together. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 22:

In page 33, to delete lines 1 and 2 and substitute the following: “(b) any part of a premises to which subsection (1)(b) applies that is occupied as a private residence.”.”

This group of amendments, which concerns section 12, amendment of section 73A of the principal Act, and section 14, amendment of section 74 of the principal Act, makes minor typographical corrections to these sections that are technical in nature.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 23:

In page 33, between lines 12 and 13, to insert the following: “(ii) in paragraph (b), by the substitution of “that person,” for “that person.”,”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 24:

In page 33, line 17, to delete “service user” and substitute “service user by a registered home support provider”

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 25:

In page 34, line 29, to delete “registered provider,” ” and substitute “registered provider” ”

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Amendments Nos. 26 to 29, inclusive, are related and will be discussed together.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 26:

In page 36, to delete line 2 and substitute the following: “(i) by the substitution of “each non-compliance list” for “the non-compliance list”,”

This group of amendments concerns section 18, amendment of section 78B of the principal Act. This group of amendments improves the clarity and readability of various references within these provisions and are technical in nature.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 27:

In page, 36, line 3, to delete "and each" and to substitute "or each".

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 28:

In page 36, to delete lines 7 to 12 and substitute the following: “(iv) in paragraph (b), by the substitution of “in the case of a registered provider, the address” for “the address”, and

(v) by the insertion of the following paragraph after paragraph (b):

“(ba) in the case of a registered home support provider, the address of the business premises of that provider,”,”

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 29:

In page 36, line 15, to delete “either non-compliance list” and substitute “a non-compliance list”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 30:

In page 39, line 15, to delete “support service” and substitute “support service by a registered home support provider”

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 31:

In page 39, line 23, to delete “to them” and substitute “to them by a registered home support provider”.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 32:

In page 40, line 16, to delete “paragraphs (a) to (d)” and substitute “paragraphs (a) to (e)”.

This amendment concerns section 22, regulations in respect of the submission of information to the chief inspector concerning registered home support providers. It corrects a reference within that section and is technical in nature.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

My point relates to section 69B of the principal Act. It is the section that exempts from regulation home support providers who provide a service to fewer than four persons. Will the Minister of State consider amending the Bill to require these to notify HIQA of their existence? I do not necessarily mean for them to be subject to the full extent of this legislation but to ensure that the State is aware of their existence in order to prevent a grey area.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Section 69B(2)(a) provides that where a person provides a home support service to fewer than four persons, they are exempt from the requirements to register. This exclusion was carefully considered in order to ensure that the regulatory burden placed on providers was proportionate to the size of the service being provided. These small services are typically single operators working on a one-to-one basis with service users. These operators can be considered especially valuable in rural areas where there can be an insufficiency of commissioned service in particular regions. This exemption also seeks to exempt personal assistance, PA, services where a service user directly employs a personal assistant. These arrangements allow the service user to direct the way in which these services are provided. This upholds the principles of the UNCRPD for persons with disabilities.

A framework for adult safeguarding in the health and social sector was launched in December 2025. This aims to expand, strengthen and add safeguards across the health and social care sector for adults at risk of abuse and harm. As I said, I held discussions with the Minister for Children and Social Care of Wales, Dawn Bowden, when I was over there to ask how their system operated. They operate with four or fewer that are exempt. PA services here fall under the Department of Children, Disability and Equality. A review group has been set up involving all stakeholders, particularly people with disabilities. If the Department comes back to us and says it wants PA services to be included, we will facilitate that on Report Stage in terms of amendments. I always go back to the service user. There is work going on at the Department of children on that and we will continue our engagement on it.

More broadly, it is a proportionate measure in terms of fewer than four not being covered by the regulation. When doing the legislation, we published a national policy document on adult safeguarding. We are now proceeding with preparation of the legislation to underpin that. All aspects of safeguarding for adults will be considered in that space.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I get why they are not included. It is not really looking at it from the point of view of inclusion under the entirety of this Bill. However, it is that idea of HIQA notification and ensuring they are on the radar. As the Minister of State says, it has to be, first and foremost, about providing the service to the service user and, therefore, it is whatever suits best. I accept the answers the Minister of State has given in relation to personal assistants. However, I ask that the matter be looked at just to ensure we do not have something falling between stools.

Martin Daly (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

My apologies for being late. I got delayed getting to the meeting. Regarding what the Minister of State said about people looking after four or fewer, how would that stand with parents in a home providing a care package and recruiting people to deliver that care in their home? I am thinking specifically of the case of a young man who is non-verbal and autistic. When he is triggered, he can bang his head until he loses consciousness. He is in a private care facility at the moment.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

How old is he?

Martin Daly (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He is 18. The parents are extremely concerned that this care is insufficient. There is insufficient safeguarding. They gave an example of when he was triggered once and he was put in a room with someone who was quite disturbing. It took four or five staff to hold him down.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Obviously, there are issues of confidentiality here, so without-----

Martin Daly (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I can come back to the Minister of State afterwards on this. The Taoiseach has raised this and I raised it on the floor of the Dáil. The Taoiseach interceded on this. The parents were proposing to provide the care for 50% of the cost of what the State would pay a private provider. HIQA had visited twice and had raised red flags but nothing changed.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What type of form was that?

Martin Daly (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Those were the reports, as I understand it.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Was it a residential setting?

Martin Daly (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes, a residential setting. Now, the HSE has put it to the parents that they will have to set up a company and meet a range of regulatory expectations from the HSE. This just flies in the face of common sense.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Obviously, I do not know the circumstances of the case.

Martin Daly (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I know.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Obviously-----

Martin Daly (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is the general principle.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As it stands, under the legislation the provision of service of any provider providing for more than four clients is regulated. It was being looked at on a proportionate basis. I do not know the level of service this young man requires. It is something we can look into, but I very much-----

Martin Daly (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

His care in a private care home is costing the State €750,000. The parents have spent an estimated €350,000 in building an extension on their house. The mother is giving up her work.

Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is then the element of personal assistance.

Martin Daly (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It will require supervision-----

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is not a three-way conversation.

Martin Daly (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not know; I apologise.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It goes outside-----

Martin Daly (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It goes outside the Bill. I accept that. I accept the Minister of State's answer.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are dealing with home support here. By all means, the Deputy can come to me subsequently and we can follow up in that regard. This is about home support hours, however.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I seek two points of clarity. I do not understand the logic of exempting providers with four clients or less. Will the Minister of State explain why they are exempt?

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The general scheme was published before I came into this space. It was decided, on a proportionate basis, that people who do a one-to-one session – they might be a PA in profiles, as distinct from just home support – would not be governed by the legislation. Overall, we are bringing in legislation on adult safeguarding. That is something I will look at. The decision was taken at the time on a proportionate basis that, similar to what has been done in Wales, they would not fall under the legislation. The view at the time was that this exemption was for PA in profiles.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A distinction was drawn. Will the Minister of State confirm that children home care packages will be included under this Bill?

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is correct. It was one of the changes we made to the general scheme. We engaged with our colleagues in the Department of children in this regard. An agreement was reached that they would be included.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I know those concerns were raised by the Ombudsman for Children. That inclusion is welcome.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We took everything on board. Those packages are included in the legislation.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is very welcome.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

To make one point of clarification, home care for children will be included but intensive home care packages will not because they fall under primary care. That is a nurse-led service. By definition, they are regulated in their own way.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is potentially something we can discuss on Report Stage.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Under the proposed section 69B(2)(d) of the principal Act, it provides that:

The person is providing a home support service in that person’s capacity as a member of a relevant profession within the meaning of the Health and Social Care Professionals Act 2005.

Standard home care will be included, while intensive care packages will continue to be delivered by nurses. They are regulated in their own way. Obviously, that is primary care.

Pádraig Rice (Cork South-Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, and his officials for attending today's meeting and for the considerable work they have done on this matter.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank members of the committee, along with the Chair and the clerk to the committee, for their engagement. I also thank my two officials for the great work they have done. I look forward to engaging with members on Report Stage.

Michael Cahill (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I too welcome the home support providers Bill. I thank the Minister of State and his officials for all the work they have carried out. Home care is hugely important. That cannot be emphasised strongly enough. It is absolutely critical our people are given the highest possible standard of care. Our loved ones want to remain at home. They are living longer and the need is greater now more than ever. In that context, we must have proper home support. An issue for my office in Kerry is the cut to respite care for families, from four to two weeks. Obviously, that is putting more pressure on home support. The official response I received is that this is down to demand. It is putting more pressure on an already pressurised area. I thank the Minister of State and his officials for their work.

Peter Roche (Galway East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I had to attend questions on promised legislation in the Dáil Chamber. I regret I was not here for the first part of this discussion. I thank the Minister of State and his officials for bringing this to a satisfactory conclusion so that we can move on.