Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Wednesday, 25 March 2026
Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth
Education Needs of Visually Impaired Students: Discussion
2:00 am
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Apologies have been received from Deputy Peter Roche and Senator Linda Nelson Murray. Everyone is very welcome this afternoon. I ask anyone attending remotely to mute themselves when not contributing so we do not pick up on any background noise or feedback. As usual, I remind all those in attendance to ensure their mobile phones are either on silent mode or switched off entirely.
Members attending remotely are reminded of the constitutional requirements that in order to participate in public meetings, they must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex. As the officials are within the precincts of the Leinster House complex, they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the presentation they make to this committee. This means they have an absolute defence against any defamation action for anything they say at the meeting. However, they are expected not to abuse this privilege and it is my duty as Cathaoirleach to ensure this privilege is not abused. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative they comply with any such direction. Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person or entity outside of the Houses or an official of the Houses, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.
On the agenda for today's meeting is the education needs of visually impaired students. I warmly welcome the following officials from the Department of education; Mr. Frank Hanlon, principal officer; and Ms Celeste O'Callaghan, principal officer. From the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, NCCA, I welcome Ms Aoife Rush, director. From the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, I welcome Mr. John Culhane, national development lead; and Mr. Conor Brennan, visiting teacher for visually impaired students. From the State Examinations Commission, I welcome Mr. Richard Dolan, director of operations; and Ms Róisín Collier, principal officer. I now call the officials to make their opening statements in the following order: Mr. Hanlon followed by Ms Rush, with Mr. Dolan speaking at the end. The NCSE is not making an opening statement today so each person making an opening statement will have about five minutes or thereabouts.
Mr. Frank Hanlon:
At the outset, I thank the Cathaoirleach and the committee for the invitation to the Department of Education and Youth to be here today and for the opportunity to outline the range of supports available for blind and visually impaired children and young people in our school system. My name is Frank Hanlon and I am a principal officer in the Department’s special education section. I am accompanied today by Ms Celeste O’Callaghan, a principal officer in curriculum and assessment policy in the Department; Mr. John Culhane, who is the national development lead in the NCSE; and Mr. Conor Brennan, who is a visiting teacher for children with visual impairments, joins us as well.
As the committee is aware, the Department of education’s policy in respect of supporting children and young people with additional needs, including students who are blind or vision impaired, is very clear. Based on a child-centred approach to the provision of education, our role is to ensure that schools are equipped appropriately for them to meet the needs of children and young people with additional needs so that they are supported to access an education appropriate to those needs. This means that children with additional needs should be supported to the greatest degree possible in mainstream settings, with additional teaching and care supports to allow them to achieve their potential.
To support provision in mainstream education, there are just over 15,000 special education teachers and almost 13,000 special needs assistants, SNAs, in our mainstream schools. Special education teachers work with their mainstream colleagues to identify and address children’s needs based on the principle that the child with the greatest level of need should receive the greatest level of support. The vast majority of children with additional or special educational needs are educated in mainstream settings in the Irish education system. Effective teaching and support from classroom teachers and special educational teachers, along with support from SNAs, are critical to enabling children to reach their full potential.
In circumstances where children with additional needs require more specialised interventions, we ensure access to special class or special school places. We have a small number of special classes and special school places dedicated to supporting blind and visually impaired students. Members of the committee will be aware of the very significant investment the State makes in special education. A sum of €3.1 billion will be spent this year on special education, which allows for additional resources to be provided to schools to enable them to meet their students' needs. By the end of 2026, there will be close to 47,000 teachers and SNAs working in schools to support children and young people with these needs. In line with the agenda for today’s meeting, I will take the opportunity to set out some details on the specific supports that are available for children who are blind or visually impaired. For children with greater levels of need who are blind or visually impaired, there is a dedicated special school in Drumcondra, St. Joseph’s Primary School for Children with Visual Impairment, and there are also two special classes attached to post-primary schools.
The National Council for Special Education employs 16 visiting teachers, VTs, supporting just over 1,400 children and young people who are blind or visually impaired. VTs are qualified teachers with particular skills and knowledge of the development and education of children with varying degrees of sight loss. They provide valuable early intervention support in the home to babies and their families. VTs work directly with children who are blind or visually impaired. They also advise schools and parents on the various supports available. Visiting teachers also support braille tuition and support schools in the development of braille materials and the use of assistive technology to support this. Visiting teachers offer longitudinal support to students and their families from the time of initial referral through to the end of post-primary education. The NCSE also offers a range of courses for teachers working with students, including an extensive programme of teacher professional development in education centres across the country, ranging from introductory seminars for teachers to the sustained support that is the core work of the visiting teachers. There are also postgraduate courses dealing specifically with the education of students who are blind or visually impaired. The NCSE provides funding for teachers to undertake these courses.
While the principle of inclusion underpins curriculum design, and I understand my colleague from the NCCA will outline that further in her opening statement, it is very important for children who are blind or visually impaired to be able to access that curriculum in a way that best meets their needs. To help meet this need, the Department of education funds reading services run by ChildVision. This is a national service, working closely with the NCSE, schools and families and provides access to educational material by transcription into a range of formats accessible to children who are visually impaired. These formats include, but are certainly not limited to, braille and large print format schoolbooks. The Department also funds Bookshare Ireland, which is part of Vision Ireland and has access to a large digital library of primary and post-primary books in a range of formats to suit the needs of the child. All of these services are free to those children who need them.
As the committee is aware, since 2017, the underpinning principle of the special education teaching, SET, allocation model is that the model provides additional teaching resources to schools to enable them to provide for the identified educational needs of students without a requirement for a diagnosis. This shift from a diagnosis-led to a needs-based model ensures that all children have access to the supports required to help them achieve in schools. Schools are front-loaded with these resources and have the autonomy and flexibility to ensure that students are assigned supports as they are required. Schools can approach the NCSE in relation to their SET allocation and if a school needs additional resources, this can be provided.
In addition to the main supports, I will outline in summary detail supports that are available for students who are blind or visually impaired through the typing tuition scheme. A total of 20 hours of typing tuition can be made available to schools to help improve the typing skills of a student and another ten hours of word processing tuition is made available to students following this block, making 30 hours in total.
We also have our assistive technology, AT, scheme, which provides technological support to children who need this for accessing the curriculum. This includes Braille and equipment to support students who are blind or visually impaired, such as Braille embossers, magnifiers, touchscreen laptops, software such as Braille translation and screen reading, and many others, depending on the individual needs of the child. We have increased our funding for this scheme by €2 million in 2023 and by another €1 million this year and are fully committed to providing a range of technological supports to students. The AT scheme is nearing the end of a comprehensive review. This will see a needs-based process that will mean children who need the technology will get it much more quickly.
The concept of universal design now underpins all Department technical guidelines in relation to the design and build of new schools and school extensions. The accessibility and usability of a building is a key determinant of a quality learning environment. Additional provisions are also made in the design and build of new classrooms, which are specifically to support students who are blind or visually impaired.
Ensuring access to State examinations for all students, including those who are blind or visually impaired, is also a key concern. The committee will hear more about that in the SEC's opening statement. The accommodations provided under the reasonable accommodations at certificate examinations, RACE, scheme are an important part of the SEC's operational remit. This will be addressed separately.
We continue to work hard to ensure we are providing a supportive, inclusive education system for all children, particularly those with additional needs. While significant progress has been made across a range of fronts, we are always aware of the challenges faced by individual children and their families. We are continuing to work with the NCSE and all our education stakeholders to address any issues as they come to light. It is important for the Department and the NCSE to keep abreast of the latest research and developments internationally to support students who are visually impaired. This is something we are very aware of through the research function in the NCSE and our representation on various EU special education groups.
I apologise for going over time. I thank the committee for giving me the opportunity to outline some of the supports available. My colleagues and I look forward to engaging with members and providing more details on any questions they might have. Go raibh maith agat, a Chathaoirligh.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank Mr. Hanlon. I very much appreciate that.
Ms Aoife Rush:
I thank the Chair and members for the opportunity to speak today. I am a director at the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment. The NCCA advises the Minister for Education and Youth on the curriculum for early childhood education, primary and post-primary schools and the assessment procedures employed in schools and examinations on subjects that are part of the curriculum. The council’s work places a strong emphasis on research, working closely with schools, public consultation and deliberation. In recent years, the council has overseen an unprecedented level of curriculum review and redevelopment. I will briefly describe how the principle of inclusion has informed this ongoing work from early childhood to senior cycle and I will highlight how learners with visual difficulties are supported by the NCCA’s curriculum development and approaches to assessment.
The development of our national curriculum from early childhood to senior cycle is the result of thousands of contributions from teachers, school leaders, parents, children, students and the wider public. The NCCA takes deliberate steps to include voices seldom heard in national consultations, including those of children and young people with additional needs, minority communities and families experiencing socioeconomic disadvantage. At the heart of our curriculum development are the principles of equity of access, participation and inclusion. This means that from the outset, the curriculum is designed and developed so as to enable all learners to access it and to participate meaningfully, regardless of their abilities, background or needs. Our national curriculum incorporates these principles. Its enactment is supported by a range of agencies, under the auspices of the Department of Education and Youth, that promote inclusion across teaching, learning and assessment.
The NCCA’s work on the curriculum is conducted in close partnership with the Department, the inspectorate, Oide, the NCSE, the State Examinations Commission and wider education partners. Our shared goal is to ensure that the curriculum has a positive and lasting impact on all children’s and students’ learning and well-being. As such, the national curriculum is designed to be inclusive of and accessible to all learners, including those with visual or other difficulties. Our inclusive curriculum design approach considers students’ education, cultural and social background and experience, as well as physical, sensory, emotional, cognitive or other difficulties. The learning set out in curriculum specifications for early childhood, primary, junior cycle and senior cycle is outcomes based and intentionally non-prescriptive. This approach by the NCCA to curriculum design provides teachers with flexibility, enabling them to adjust activities and expectations to suit each learner’s abilities and to take account of their diverse strengths and needs. This is important to ensure that all learners are appropriately challenged and supported.
In addition, the broad learning outcomes can be experienced and realised through a wide range of activities enabling children and students to access information and learn through text, audio, visuals, hands-on and practical tasks and resources, and technology. This flexible and inclusive curriculum design therefore allows for the adaptation of teaching materials, assessment methods and school and classroom environments so all learners can access the same curriculum.
The NCCA promotes assessment approaches that are grounded in fairness, flexibility and inclusion, enabling learners to demonstrate their learning in diverse ways and reducing barriers for those with additional needs, including visual difficulties. Assessment in primary school is about building a picture over time of a child’s learning progress across the curriculum through varied ways of gathering evidence. At junior cycle, innovative approaches have been introduced whereby students undertake classroom-based assessments as well as final examinations. This dual approach allows for new ways of learning and a broader range of skills to be assessed.
As a public body committed to placing people at the centre of its work, the NCCA is dedicated to ensuring that its website and all hosted documentation are accessible to school leaders, teachers, parents, learners and individuals with visual difficulties. The website incorporates a range of features to enable adaptable content views and structures information clearly, thereby supporting equitable access to information and advancing the organisation’s principle of inclusion and diversity as set out in its strategic plan.
The curriculum frameworks from early childhood through to post-primary are underpinned by an affirming, inclusive and future-focused vision for education. They reflect our shared commitment to support every child and student, including those with visual impairments, to realise their full potential and our belief in the professionalism of teachers and school leaders. With sustained collaboration and support, the national curriculum has the potential to support high-quality learning, teaching and assessment and strengthen equity and inclusion across our system.
Once again, I thank members for the opportunity to join them today. I am happy to respond to any of their questions.
Mr. Richard Dolan:
I am the director of operations with the State Examinations Commission. I am joined by my colleague Ms Róisín Collier, principal officer. I thank the Cathaoirleach and members for the invitation to attend to discuss the education needs of vision-impaired students.
The SEC has statutory responsibility for the development and delivery of the State certificate examinations. We are fully committed to providing an examinations and assessment system with the highest possible standards of inclusiveness, equity and fairness that enables all candidates to display their achievements. We take very seriously our obligation to provide access to the certificate examinations for candidates with special educational needs and work closely with school authorities, the Department of Education and Youth and other agencies in providing access arrangements in the examinations. We also engage with persons with disabilities through their representative organisations and in direct engagement with users of the service.
Access to the State examinations is facilitated in the first instance by developing examination papers and other test instruments designed to be as accessible as possible to the broadest range of candidates, including those with special educational needs. All examination materials are reviewed during development with a view to eliminating inappropriate barriers. Careful consideration is given as to whether the means of assessment rely on a skill or competence that is not the focus of the assessment but which could exclude candidates with certain disabilities. Through the scheme of reasonable accommodations, candidates with special educational needs are provided with support and access arrangements due to physical difficulties, including medical, sensory, behavioural and mental health difficulties; vision impairment; hearing impairment; and learning difficulties.
In common with similar schemes in other jurisdictions, the focus of the RACE scheme is on removing barriers to accessing the examinations while retaining the need to assess the same underlying skills and competencies as are assessed for all other candidates. The purpose of the scheme is to allow candidates who have special educational needs that interfere with their capacity to engage with the standard examination arrangements to demonstrate what they know and can do, without compromising the integrity of the assessment. This involves such students being held to the same standard as other candidates with regard to what the examination is intended to measure.
One in four candidates at the 2025 certificate examinations was provided with some form of reasonable accommodation within the RACE scheme to support them in accessing the leaving certificate, leaving certificate applied and junior cycle examinations. Blind and partially sighted candidates are a distinct and small group of candidates who have a very particular set of needs.
In meeting the needs of this small but important cohort, the SEC works very closely with the visiting teacher service, VTS, of the National Council for Special Education whose role is to support children and young people, parents, guardians, teachers and other professionals involved with children and young people who are vision impaired or deaf and hard of hearing.
An extensive range of examination supports is available through the RACE scheme to support candidates with vision impairments in taking their examinations. The range of supports includes papers in alternative formats, including enlarged, modified and Braillle and, on a pilot basis, read-only PDF format; reading accommodations, including an individual reader or reading assistants and the exam reading pen; writing accommodations; adjusted arrangements in leaving certificate oral examinations; additional time in written and practical examinations; specialised facilities and equipment such as drawing aids in technical subjects; and assistive technology and other aids, such as low vision aids, magnifiers and reading lamps as normally used in the classroom; and colour identifier.
In the development of the RACE scheme in recent years, the SEC has had a particular focus on the needs of young people with vision impairments. In this context it might be noted that the SEC has engaged extensively with representatives of young people who are vision impaired and directly with vision-impaired examinations candidates and former candidates. A number of specific initiatives have been introduced. These include digital examination papers, additional time for vision-impaired candidates, greater access to assistive technology and access to past papers and marking schemes.
It is absolutely acknowledged by the SEC that there is increasing complexity in the special educational landscape and, by extension, the impact on candidates with special educational needs taking the certificate examinations. The SEC, directed by the Board of Commissioners, is leading a comprehensive system wide review of the RACE scheme which will take account of best practice internationally. The structure of the review is designed to ensure that rolling changes can be implemented at the earliest opportunity as the review progresses and in the interest of candidates. This approach is demonstrated in the change to additional time arrangements made at the 2025 examinations for vision-impaired candidates.
In the context of the review, scoping work is being undertaken on a number of initiatives which have potential to better meet the needs of candidates with vision impairments, including alternative versions of examination papers in an extended range of formats, including enlarged font; digital papers compatible with software packages commonly used by vision-impaired candidates, including text to speech; establishing opportunities for greater use of assistive technology; achieving greater access by design; and providing accessible RACE application forms and information for vision-impaired people.
The committee may be aware that the SEC undertook an equality review, on foot of a request from the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, of the RACE scheme for young people with vision impairments and is now preparing an equality action plan of foot of the SEC's report to IHREC on the equality review. The action plan, which is due to be submitted to IHREC by end of April, will set out the short, medium and longer term objectives for change.
The SEC has launched a public consultation as part of its comprehensive review of the scheme of reasonable accommodations. Tailored surveys are available for learners, parents or guardians and schools, and details of the consultation can be found on the SEC webpage. The consultation is open until the end of May 2026.
Supporting candidates with special educational needs, including better meeting the needs of candidates who are vision impaired, is a key strategic priority for the SEC executive and board, which we hope has been demonstrated by the many recent enhancements to the RACE scheme.
My colleague Ms Collier and I are happy to respond to questions the committee may have.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank Mr. Dolan. Before we go to members' questions, he referred to a document which will be submitted to IHREC by the end of April. I appreciate it is being worked on. Is there any chance that could be sent to the committee around that time?
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I ask that it be sent as soon as the commission is able to send it.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Very good. We will go to members’ questions. We have six minutes per member and we will probably get a second round in. We allow a little leeway for questions and answers. If people hear tapping on my glass, it means they should wrap up. I hope we will have time at the end. Sometimes witnesses are pressed to answer quickly but we give time at the end for everyone to close out if there were elements they did not get time to properly answer.
Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
My first question is to the Department of education on the number of visiting teachers. Sixteen visiting teachers for 1,413 students sounds like a very small number. I know from having taught that the visiting teacher comes to the school on an irregular basis. I appreciate they do work at home with families and so on but I wonder are there a sufficient number of visiting teachers to address all the needs of children in our schools who are blind or visually impaired?
St. Joseph’s Primary School for Children with Visual Impairment and two special classes were mentioned. Post-primary education was not mentioned. Do most children with visual impairment or who are blind attend mainstream schools, with supports? Where are the special classes located?
Mr. Frank Hanlon:
I will respond to these questions before asking my colleagues in the NCSE to come in on them too. On the number of visiting teachers, there have been 16 for some time. It is open to the NCSE to look at the numbers, depending on the number of children it needs to support. There is a bit of flexibility there. The work of the visiting teachers with those children is quite intensive. We anticipate that the number of visiting teachers is adequate to support that service.
As we said, there are 1,400 children with visual impairment supported by the visiting teacher service. The vast majority of those attend mainstream education across the whole country so the visiting teachers are spread across the country as well, in a regional format. The special school, St. Joseph's, is in Drumcondra and the two special classes are in Rosmini post-primary school.
Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Post primary is cared for in mainstream education even if children attended one of those special classes.
Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Is the curriculum fully accessible for students who are visually impaired? Is the technology up-to-date now and is everything on the curriculum accessible through online sources, text-to-speech technology and so on? How many students still use or learn Braille or is there a choice? Technology has come on so much in recent years and we want to see that expanded into the exams, etc. What is the breakdown in relation to Braille?
Mr. Frank Hanlon:
I will allow my colleagues from the NCSE to come in on this with some specific examples. There is a wide range of technological supports available for the children but it is bespoke to the child as to what he or she requires or is using or can use. In some cases that will be Braille and in others it might be text-to-speech, magnifiers or particular types of software. It is a wide range of things. The NCSE keeps up to date on technology and what is coming on stream as it changes. The Department is very open to the assistive technology scheme and supporting whatever is best for the child. I will ask Mr. Culhane or Mr. Brennan to come in on that point.
Mr. John Culhane:
On the use of Braille and supporting students who use it, about 50 of the 1,400 students mentioned are Braille users. They are the children in our caseload who receive the highest level of support. We have categories of support and the Braille users are at the highest level. There are about 50 Braille users and about 25 pre-Braille users. They would be pre-school children who may go on to use Braille. Then we have what we describe as dual users. These are students who learn through Braille and through text because their condition means they have deteriorating vision and they will become Braille users as they move on.
My colleague Mr. Brennan will be able to speak on the technology.
Mr. Conor Brennan:
Mr. Hanlon referred to the bespoke nature of the assisted technology recommended for the various students on our caseload as visiting teachers.
It is unique in every case, and there would be bespoke options. As the Deputy said, technology has evolved quite a lot over the past few years as regards what options are out there. We make the biggest effort we can to provide as many options as we feel are worthwhile and worth considering. In speaking to families and schools we provide those and, in consultation with them, we make our recommendations. It is not based on a hunch or anything like that. We tailor to the particular student, with the view of the family in mind.
Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Does the SEC now offer fully interactive exams? I remember talking to a girl who was blind, and she did her leaving certificate last year and her junior certificate a few years before that. When doing her junior certificate, she relied on her scriptwriter to describe a picture to her and so on. At that time, she did not feel that was adequate because it was open to interpretation. Does the SEC now offer fully interactive and compatible papers?
Mr. Richard Dolan:
We have a range of papers. We have enlarged papers, modified papers and read-only PDFs. They are not fully interactive with speech to text and things like that. They are not fully compatible with that, but we have a working group in place in the organisation and we are looking at different types of papers and what we can offer in the future. It is certainly something we are working towards.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank the witnesses for being here. I will start with Mr. Hanlon on the visiting teacher service. My questions are along the lines of what Senator Tully asked. There are 16 teachers catering for 1,413 students. Totting that up, and it may be an unfair analysis, but it is a pupil-teacher ratio of 1:88. Was the figure always 16? Is this a low ebb or is it adequate? It seems quite low to me. I appreciate the incidence of blindness and profound visual impairment is low when spread nationally. Where are we with those numbers?
Mr. Frank Hanlon:
I will ask colleagues to come in briefly. From our perspective in the Department, we look at the requirements the NCSE has in order that it can adequately support the service. As I understand it, the figure of 16 teachers in the visiting teacher service is a long-standing number. The number of children has probably stayed relatively stable over the years. It is not that one figure has gone down and the other has gone up. The balance has probably been there for some time. I will ask Mr. Culhane to come in on that with more information.
Mr. John Culhane:
As has been said, the number of students who are blind or visually impaired is always approximately two per 1,000. It does not change. We received an extra two visiting teachers two years ago. We placed them in Dublin due to growing numbers in Dublin. We spoke to the Department of education about an increase in the number of visiting teachers. It came back and we received an extra two. I know the Chair said the caseload is approximately 80 per visiting teacher. Within those caseloads there is a spectrum of need. As I said to the Senator earlier, approximately 4% of those students are at the highest level of need, so they would receive more regular supports. There are students in schools who have greater experience. The schools themselves have greater experience of working with students who are blind or vision impaired, so they might not need as much help from the visiting teacher. The students who are transitioning from preschool to national school and from national school to post primary may need a bit more help. We have a framework where every year each child is scored to help the visiting teachers gauge how much support is needed. Support ranges from a high level of support, provided maybe weekly or fortnightly, down to two or three times per year, along with phone and email support.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I appreciate that. I have some questions specifically for Mr. Brennan. I am a teacher. We have several teachers here. I am not especially familiar with this area. Before we go to that, if a child's needs are more profound than can be met in provincial Ireland, with Mr. Brennan or one of his colleagues travelling down to support the school, and the child needs to be in Drumcondra, how does that happen? I assume it requires the family to relocate. I am sure this happens. The children cannot all be from the Dublin 9 catchment area. There are presumably children from all over the country in Drumcondra.
Mr. John Culhane:
There are, and there is residential support there, as there is with the Holy Family School for the Deaf in Cabra as well. Usually, children with that level of need are picked up early on by the local visiting teacher who would talk to the parents about the various supports available. Are the needs being met in the local national school? If they are, will those needs continue to be met in the post-primary school? Parents will be supported through looking at the various options available and which ones will best meet the need of the child. The school population in Drumcondra is currently approximately 51 students and there are ten class teachers. There is capacity in that school. Visiting teachers are in a position to recommend placement there, as they are with the two special classes in Rosmini. There is also residential provision in ChildVision or Rosmini school for students attending that school.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
It is an incredible school, and we cannot praise enough what it is doing. It is a whole different sphere of teaching and learning. Notwithstanding all the positives, it must be an upheaval for a family in Clare, where I am from, or in Cork, Kerry or Mayo to hear that the needs of their child cannot be met in a local school or even a school within a commutable distance and they have to relocate to Drumcondra. Has there been consideration in recent years by the NCSE, the Department or the Minister's office that there is a need for one or two of these schools at smaller scale elsewhere in the country, so that people could live their home life and commute to the school, rather than have to relocate to Dublin?
Mr. John Culhane:
I have had talks with Mr. Brennan on this topic. As the Chair said, part of what we are looking at is the small numbers. It is finding a cohort of students with that degree of visual impairment to make up a cohort of students for a smaller education establishment, be it a local class or another school.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Do they exist at the moment? Is there a class for the visually impaired down the country with a cluster of children to which Mr. Brennan or one of his colleagues can be assigned, rather than having the visiting process as at the moment? Is there any example of that?
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I am out of time. I have a question for Mr. Brennan but we will have a second round.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I apologise for missing the presentations. There have been a number of things I had to speak on. It was actually the previous issue that I wanted to hear more about. The service seems Dublin focused and Dublin centric. Parents and children from outside Dublin have to discommode themselves to avail of the services. Are the witnesses calling for anything with regard to that?
Mr. John Culhane:
Our service at the moment is the visiting teachers, who are providing good support to parents. By and large, the students who are blind and visually impaired and in their local mainstream school are succeeding in that placement, with the support of the visiting teachers, SNAs and SETs. The students, by and large, are placed in their local mainstream school. We have not really looked at alternative specialist blind and vision-impaired placements across the country. Again, it is due to the numbers we are dealing with. It is that low number of two per 1,000 that is more or less fixed. It does not change.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
There are 16 teachers supporting 1,413 children. Is that sufficient?
Mr. John Culhane:
The number has increased from 14 to 16 over the past two or three years. It something we are always looking at. I was talking to my colleague this morning. We know there are parts of the country where the visiting teacher is covering a large geographical area, and we are wondering how we can reorganise that to use our resources better.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
What about the other organisations represented here?
Mr. Frank Hanlon:
I will come in on these two points. In terms of the more specialised classes or schools, as Mr. Culhane said, it is probably down to very low numbers. It is very difficult to organise something in a particular location that would have sufficient numbers to fill a school class. Working with the NCSE, we will keep that under constant review to see if it is required. Obviously, the NCSE will look at its internal structures in terms of the visiting teacher service, numbers and all the rest of it. As we did a couple of years ago in terms of providing additional resources, if something is required or if the NCSE wants to look at the geographical spread and all the rest of it, we will work with it on that.
Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank the witnesses for the presentations. While two students per 1,000 are visually impaired or blind, and they are obviously scattered throughout the whole country, the service is quite Dublin focused. I had the pleasure of working in Rosmini Community School, through the school completion programme, in my previous role. Students who were visually impaired were largely not on the school completion list, but they were in the school. The adaptations made in the school to make sure everybody was included were fantastic. It is a shame that people have to leave their communities to come to Dublin. For those students coming to Dublin for supports, where do they live? Do they come with their families or who do they live with?
The role of the visiting teacher is such an important one. What does that role look like? What does a day in the life of a visiting teacher look like? I do not know. When I worked in the school completion programme, there was a visiting teacher for Travellers. I understood what their day was like because I worked very closely with them. I would be very interested to know what a day in the life of a visiting teacher is like. What supports are needed to make sure the students are fully included?
Mr. Conor Brennan:
I am happy to take that question. I cover the geographical area of counties Waterford, Tipperary and Offaly in my role as a visiting teacher. I cater for 90 students within that geographical area. As Mr. Culhane highlighted, the priority within my cohort is my Braille-reading students and my students accessing the curriculum through Braille or tactile means. We are talking about pretty much weekly visits, if not more, for those students. That would mirror a lot of what my colleagues are doing in other geographical areas as well. That covers-----
Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Is Mr. Brennan going around to primary schools and secondary schools?
Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
For those students using Braille, if they are in primary school, for example, a teacher may not know how to use Braille or whatever else. Is Mr. Brennan supporting the teacher or the SNA as well as the student?
Mr. Conor Brennan:
I am supporting the SET and the SNA in that situation because the focus towards Braille tuition is very much geared towards the SET support in that regard. More often than not, I am interacting with the SET along with the SNA in guiding them, not just in the teaching of Braille but in using any accompanying technology and advising them as to how it could be used effectively in the classroom and during special education teaching time. That takes up part of my role as well. I also actively engage as a teacher in teaching the child in my weekly visits.
I am planning ahead and helping the SET to plan ahead for that week's Braille tuition and teaching in my absence. I would always review the situation with the SET to see how things are going and if there are things we need to work on. We might have to do aspects of tactile learning if it were a very young child. We would teach pre-Braille literacy skills in respect of building the tactility in the fingers and getting the students familiar with the very basic technology or, further on in second level, familiarity with the more advanced level of Braille technology. That takes up quite a bit of my working day.
Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I can imagine it does. From the sound of it, there is also a lot of travel.
Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Where do the students live if they have to come to Dublin to go to school?
Mr. Conor Brennan:
In my situation, I have not had a student actually transfer to either St. Joseph's or Rosmini in my time. Given my geographical location, that is obviously somewhat of an extreme option. The vast majority of my Braille students are either in a special class or in a mainstream school. Thanks be to God, due to the help of many good teachers and the great deal of help I get from teaching colleagues in the visiting teacher service, in the vast majority of cases those students, previous to this and currently, are doing very well in mainstream schools. They get excellent support from their SNA in each case. Obviously, there is the SET support they get as well in terms of being able to access the curriculum and having the tools to be able to access daily living skills. Obviously, a huge area of concern for our students and our young people is that they are able to do basic tasks that are common to others who are self-taught or who learn them instinctively. Other skills, such as daily independent living skills, need to be taught exclusively to our blind students and blind young people. That is part of my role too.
Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Does Mr. Culhane know where the students stay?
Mr. John Culhane:
There are various solutions for the accommodation. Transport is sometimes provided. If it is within a reasonable distance, the Department of education transport scheme will provide a transport service for the child and family. A grant is also payable to the family if they wish to take on the transport responsibility. In Dublin, there is sometimes family support and the child is able to move. I appreciate that none of these solutions are ideal in that the child is not in the local community. Rosmini has access to accommodation there as well. A couple of children moved up from the country to that accommodation. They were living there and it was close to the school. I think there was support from Child Vision for that accommodation as well. It is in much the same way as the Holy Family School for the Deaf has accommodation in Cabra for children travelling from different parts of the country.
Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank the witnesses very much. I appreciate it, and I wish them all the best of luck with their continued work.
Shane Curley (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank all the witnesses for coming in. I have a question mainly for the SEC and Mr. Dolan on the extra five minutes per hour that has been allocated during the State examinations. In the context of examinations overall, what kind of research analysis went into arriving at that figure? How was the new total of 15 minutes per hour during an examination arrived at?
Mr. Richard Dolan:
I thank the Senator for the question. It is based on a number of factors, including expertise within the organisation and talking to the stakeholders. We are engaging with a range of stakeholders all the time. It is also based on the position internationally. All those factors go into making the decision on the 15 minutes' additional time, especially talking to the stakeholders.
Shane Curley (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
This next question may be for Mr. Brennan. We do not have data from this year’s exams. Previously, did an extra ten minutes per hour come anywhere near being sufficient? Did he find that students he met were still under severe pressure when it came to practising for exams? How do they fare in the leaving certificate examinations overall?
Mr. Conor Brennan:
In the vast majority of cases, it has worked out okay. I would use the word "bespoke" again. It is obviously very bespoke and unique to certain students regarding what additional accommodations they need. Regarding time, it has worked in favour of some students and has been positive. In other cases, where students may be accessing a scribe, a reader or using particular types of technology to provide answers, it can be a bit more challenging. It is unique to certain cases, as I mentioned.
Shane Curley (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank Mr. Brennan. Turning to Mr. Dolan again, at any point in the process of analysing this and coming to the conclusion that it would be 15 minutes, was there any cause for concern or reason to sit back and ask what is the point of having time limits? We are hearing from Mr. Brennan that it is quite challenging in some cases. At any time, did people ask why we have time limits in exams and why are we putting students under pressure, when it would be cost-neutral for the State to remove time limits and allow unlimited time in an exam? Why do we put time pressure on students, especially those with a visual impairment?
Mr. Richard Dolan:
We continually have those sorts of conversations. As part of the RACE review and other work happening in the organisation, we are looking at the amount of time available and the amount of time necessary. We are very conscious, for instance, as Mr. Brennan mentioned, of children reading Braille. It takes longer to read Braille than it does to read a normal examination paper. We are very conscious of that. There is a time limit on exams because they have to be done, I suppose, in a very practical sense. We are conscious of the 70,000 candidates out there doing the leaving certificate and junior cycle examinations this year.
If there are no time limits, I am not quite sure how it would work for the individual candidates. The time set for an exam is the appropriate amount of time to answer the questions and candidates should be able to demonstrate-----
Shane Curley (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Well, it is not.
Shane Curley (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I am a former secondary school teacher and would argue that point, but we will get into it another day.
Shane Curley (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I taught Irish at higher level to leaving certificate level. In some cases, the time available is nowhere near enough. That is my opinion. As an overall topic, I hear phrases about the integrity of the exam, the fairness of the exam and overall fairness at a macro level. If you take away time limits, it is fair to everybody. Everybody has as much time as they need. As I said, in my opinion the time available in some exams is nowhere near enough for a fully able student, never mind a student who might need to use Braille or engage with a scribe. At an overall level, does Mr. Dolan think that an additional 15 minutes per hour is enough to take away time pressure from any student who uses Braille, assistive technology or a scribe in the 2026 leaving certificate and junior certificate exams?
Mr. Richard Dolan:
I am not saying it is going to take away all the pressure. There will be pressure and different time pressure on different candidates because we are all different. It is something we will continue to look at. A full review of the RACE scheme is ongoing. There are other things there as well. Mr. Brennan spoke about our approach to candidates with visual impairment. There are not that many of them. We engage with the schools and the candidates. We try to find out something about the candidates and their way of working. Many of them will have rest breaks and things like that as well. However, I take the Senator's point. It is not the same as having extra time in the exam, but sometimes in talking to those candidates, they talk about getting tired and the extra load because of the difficulties they have. The rest breaks help with that. We work with schools to ensure they have enough time and get the rest breaks so they can deliver on the day of the exam.
Shane Curley (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank the witnesses. They do not have easy jobs, and I acknowledge that. I encourage them, as they go on with discussions and reviews of the RACE scheme and the overall time limits, to give strong consideration to completely eradicating time limits. I do not know what purpose they serve. I do not know why there is a time limit and what purpose it serves in differentiating one student from another. I do not think it makes a whole lot of sense. I thank the witnesses.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank the witnesses. Ms Rush mentioned engagement with voices seldom heard. Will she outline what that engagement looks like, how extensive it is and how it contributes to curriculum development?
Ms Aoife Rush:
I thank the Deputy for the question. The best way to describe it is to take a recent example. I was involved in the development of the senior cycle. As the committee is probably aware, we are undergoing big developments in the senior cycle. As part of that, we undertook a significant number of school visits in the first instance. School visits are particularly important because they allow us the opportunity to talk to young people, parents, teachers and school leaders. They also allow us an opportunity to dig a little deeper into some of the questions people might have. We also carry out public consultations for any development. It might, for example, be about developing a specification for climate action, sustainable development or drama, film and theatre studies. We would carry out public consultation by way of a survey. The survey is a very useful tool. It allows any member of the public to engage in the development processes. Those are the key means by which we engage with the public.
Another piece that is key to our work is our development group structures. All our development groups have representation from across a range of agencies and key stakeholders. They help to inform any developments of the curriculum. We obviously also have a strong research base. Those three means are the ways we engage with the public.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Are those iterative processes, whereby the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment is going back to people, engaging with them and taking on board what they are saying?
Ms Aoife Rush:
Yes. My area of work is the post-primary level, so that is what I am most familiar with. We have different stages. We have an initial stage, which is for background or context. That is when we try to get a sense of how people currently feel about a subject. We draw on a background paper, which would be the research, and then engage in those various consultation tools. We generally also have a second stage. When we have developed a draft syllabus or specification, we again go out for public consultation, which would involve school visits and surveys, and sometimes focus groups as well. The focus groups are opened up for people to attend. We continue to have development deliberations.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank Ms Rush. The following question is for the Department but anyone else can come in. A number of committee members, including the Chair, the Vice Chair and I, attended a document launch. It was funded by the shared island fund. It was research by Angel Eyes NI and Féach. It made a number of recommendations. I do not know if the witnesses have seen the report. It spoke to a number of matters, including awareness, inclusion, capacity in the system and training. Those organisations pointed towards modules they had put on at Stranmillis University College in the North. The research showed a real willingness on behalf of teachers and special needs assistants, SNAs, to engage. They want to learn and understand and be able to support children who are visually impaired or blind. Are the witnesses familiar with that work? Is it something in which they see merit? That is almost a wider point.
Mr. Frank Hanlon:
I thank the Deputy. We are aware of the research. Unfortunately, we could not attend the event at short notice, but we have since met the organisations to discuss the research in a little more detail. There is a lot of merit in it. The NCSE through the visiting teacher service does a lot in the areas about which the Deputy is talking. We have to look at it and consider where it sits in the landscape. We talk to Féach on a regular basis about what it provides and what it is advocating for. We have those conversations. We look at the recommendations. There are costs associated with them and everything else. Mr. Culhane might come in on the issue. We are having discussions.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Mr. Culhane or Mr. Brennan might wish to come in. It almost relates to that wider piece about capacity within the system.
Mr. John Culhane:
We are very aware of the research the Deputy is talking about. We were at the launch in the Mansion House and met representatives of Féach last month in Athlone regarding the four pillars the Deputy mentioned, including training, awareness and Braille specialisms. They made suggestions. We will meet them again in April. We are going to go into greater depth about how they could support us. We are looking forward to that meeting.
Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Has any research been done or is any data available in this country on educational attainment for children who are blind or visually impaired? I know there is research in England on children who are deaf or hard of hearing. Data has been gathered there for some time. The Irish Deaf Society was calling for the same here. The research found that children were often one grade behind in most of the general subjects. That was in the case of children who were deaf or hard of hearing. Has any research been done or is any data available on educational attainment for children who are blind or visually impaired?
Mr. Frank Hanlon:
From our side of things in the special education section, we are starting to look at outcomes for children more generally. It is a tricky space because we are often talking about children with cohabiting conditions and everything else, and considering how to judge things. We are looking more at universal outcomes for children, as opposed to exam results, etc.
We want to look at that in a way which takes the individual child's overall capacity, condition, etc., into account. We do not publish statistics; we are aware of what is done in England. We have not moved to that yet in terms of looking at specific educational outcomes for children with specific disabilities. There is some difficulty in doing that. We are looking at the more general universal outcomes for children as to how they succeed and making sure they reach their potential. There is a working group which is looking at that separately. Perhaps the officials from the State Examinations Commission want to comment.
Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Could the SEC collect data and use it to improve how subjects are taught or exams are organised if is coming across issues that are perhaps preventing a student from reaching their potential?
Mr. Richard Dolan:
As of now, we do not have that data. The SEC engages with Féach, ChildVision and various stakeholders in the area. We are more concerned about looking at the child's normal way of working in order to ensure that when it comes to the examination, and insofar as is possible, we can replicate their normal way of working and remove barriers. That is the approach we take. We engage with them to see what challenges they might have in the exams and explore options as to what we can do. We are looking at the growth in assistive technology, which the Senator mentioned, with colleagues in the Department to understand what is applicable in the exams to try to help the candidates. The principle we take is that if it is the child's normal way of working and does not interfere with the integrity of the exam, we will in all likelihood say yes to them using it. It is more from that point of view that we are looking at it, as opposed to analysing results.
Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Our record of employment in respect of people with disabilities is extremely low compared with the EU average for a country that is relatively well-off. This is linked to attainment in education. It is not the only thing, obviously, but the issue needs to be addressed to make sure all children, regardless of disability, have the right to reach their potential.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I find the whole thing very interesting. This committee does a lot of work. I am not going to claim I know a whole lot about this sphere. I taught visually impaired children in the past, but what we are hearing is enlightening. Mr. Brennan is on the road a lot. Is he affiliated with a school? Is he a teacher at St. Joseph's school?
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Are Mr. Brennan and his colleagues classed as primary or secondary school teachers?
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
For the cohorts of children and teenagers Mr. Brennan helps, he is straddling the primary and secondary curriculum when he is on the road meeting these students.
Mr. Conor Brennan:
Coming from a primary school background, I had to familiarise myself fairly quickly with the nuances of syllabuses in subjects at leaving certificate and junior cycle level. That required a lot of quick learning on my part but thanks to colleagues in the service who come from that background, I was able to get to grips with it fairly well. I am very grateful to those colleagues in the service for helping me.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
The training course for becoming a teacher of children with visual impairment or blindness is offered by the University of Birmingham, is that correct?
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
There is no location in Ireland.
Mr. Conor Brennan:
There is not. The vast majority of us have been trained through the University of Birmingham. It is a mandatory qualification in the UK. There are other universities teachers in the UK can get their mandatory qualification from but we have a long-standing relationship with the University of Birmingham regarding teachers in Ireland getting qualifications in education through vision impairment. It has a dedicated centre on the campus that deals specifically with research and policy it supports in the UK regarding education for vision impairment. My colleagues and I got huge benefit from it. I have colleagues who are undertaking the qualification right now. It was very positive and beneficial for me.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
When I was involved in mainstream primary education, occasionally we had a shared teacher. Travelling from one school to the next was factored into their working day. It is great that Mr. Brennan is on the road. He is doing incredible job, but when the caseload is so big and there are so few teachers - I know it was stated that it is adequately catered for - it takes a lot of time to cover three counties. Is the commute from one school to the next part of the working day?
Mr. Conor Brennan:
It is. I can speak for colleagues who like me work in rural or larger areas; it takes a lot of planning on my part to factor that in, visiting certain schools to try to get to as many as you can in a day which are close by. That has to be factored into our planning but it is part of it and I am happy to do it.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Mr. Brennan covers three counties and other colleagues cover others. There are all those other things that happen in careers - illness, maternity leave, career breaks, etc. Excellent and all as this service is, it is inevitable that there will be gaps. Would there be any sense instead of covering three counties perhaps covering two counties and having centres in different counties where people are brought to rather than having it overly centralised?
Mr. John Culhane:
There is. There are always arguments for and against everything. Part of the role of the visiting teachers for the blind and visually impaired is managing the caseload, travel and who needs to be seen more regularly. We look at different ways of using our resources. Issues that come up like maternity leave, sickness, etc., are part of my role and that of my colleague Madeline Hickey who works alongside me to manage those issues on a day-to-day basis. We feel that students who are availing of this service are succeeding in their placements, but we will always look at new ways of working.
Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
With regard to the level of training teachers need to have in order to support students, does initial teacher education need to have more training to help them when they arrive in the classroom to help those students? From what I hear, the students are all over the country. There are some focused schools in Dublin, but there are children who are visually impaired and blind throughout the country so every teacher needs to have a basic understanding and be supported by the NCSE. On the curriculum particularly at post-primary level, do the witnesses think that visually impaired and blind students are able to fully access the curriculum particularly in science and physical education? The documents indicate that they are child centred, but I have heard that students are not able to fully access them because necessary supports are not available or the curriculum focuses too much on one type of student. We have that for every different scenario that comes to the committee. For any child with a disability, it can often be quite challenging for them to fully access it.
Mr. John Culhane:
I am happy to talk about the Deputy's first point on initial teacher education. When it is two students per 1,000, many teachers might go through their whole career without having a child in front of them who has a vision impairment. Our approach to dealing with that is, as Mr. Brennan mentioned, there is the course in Birmingham. Nearly all our visiting teachers have either done that course or are currently doing it. That is how we look after our visiting teachers.
Then we look to the visiting teachers to go out to their schools. We have a couple of approaches. We have a course that we deliver in education centres across the country throughout the year to support teachers in the education of students who are blind or have a vision impairment. It is a one-day course. It is very broad and introductory in nature. That will allow them to focus on the particular area they wish to work in. Mr. Brennan and the other visiting teachers will also be there to support those teachers.
The more knowledge teachers can get in their initial education and the more experience of working in different areas of special needs they can get are both very important.
Jen Cummins (Dublin South Central, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank Mr. Culhane. I have a question about accessing the curriculum.
Ms Aoife Rush:
As stated earlier, the way the curriculum is designed is that the learning outcomes are broad and flexible. The Deputy mentioned PE, which is a good example because it is quite a physical subject and requires a particular environment. In terms of the way we design the curriculum when it comes to our learning outcomes being broad and flexible, some of the learning outcomes in PE would be to demonstrate fundamental motor skills or apply relevant skills, so we keep it very broad. In that context, it does enable the teacher to be adaptable and flexible in terms of how the learning outcome is achieved.
There are a number of general principles that would need to be applied in terms of a child being able to fully access the curriculum. This really reflects on what my colleagues said. While the curriculum is designed to be inclusive, it does require teachers to use particular teaching approaches. The latter is done very successfully. Mr. Brennan spoke so well about the role of the visiting teachers in helping other teachers to adapt their teaching approaches and to support them. There are things like using verbal instructions and making sure experiences are very tactile in the classroom. That is what makes the curriculum accessible.
For subjects like PE, there are particular safety concerns but there are ways teachers are supported to ensure they can make learning safe. They make sure the learning is very structured. There will be examples of where students can be paired up with their peers or there can be sighted guides. There is also the role of SNAs in supporting the care needs of the student in order to ensure that they are engaging in a very safe way.
There has been a lot of discussion this morning about equipment that can be available, such as magnifiers. There is also particular equipment available for PE, such as tandem bicycles or particular bibs for wearing. There are also environmental concerns, so it is about ensuing the classroom environment is adapted. In all of those cases, they would be the principles applied to ensure that the curriculum is accessible to students.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I want to put a question to the officials from the SEC on the point the about the equality action plan. They stated that they submitted an equality review to IHREC. The commission has that review, and now the SEC is preparing an equality action plan. Will they tell me about the process of preparing the review? What goes into that and what is the process relating to it? How does this whole process relate to the wider comprehensive review of the reasonable accommodations scheme? I am trying to understand how these almost parallel processes relate to each other.
Mr. Richard Dolan:
They are distinct processes but very linked and complementary. It was a very interesting process to work with IHREC on this. It gave the SEC an impetus to look at ourselves and examine what we are delivering and whether we are having the impact on visually impaired candidates we would want to have. In the development of the review, we first looked at everything we are delivering. In other words, it was an internal audit of everything we are delivering. Then we went out and spoke to a range of stakeholders. The representative bodies, ChildVision and Féach, were mentioned in this regard. We met directly with vision-impaired candidates. We had really interesting meetings with a number of candidates who had gone through the system and who are now in university. That gave us very good information and a really good understanding of what it was actually like the day of the exams and during the build up to them. We submitted our report to IHREC in 2025, and it came back to us over the past number of months to put in place an action plan. That action plan will be finalised by the end of April. That is what are we doing currently. It contains the immediate, medium- and longer term goals of the SEC. For instance, on foot of this process, we now have modified papers on our website that are the same as the past papers for other candidates.
The Deputy mentioned the review that is ongoing under the IHREC commissioners. It is a broader review of the entire RACE scheme that involves international research and working with stakeholders. There is a significant consultation process that is ongoing. They are similar activities, but one is much broader than the other. There has been quite a lot of progress in this area over the past number of years.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Are the equality review and the action plan publicly available?
Ms Róisín Collier:
I will come in there if that is okay. No, the process is that you submit the equality review to IHREC, which reviews it. On foot of that, IHREC recommends any changes that are required or anything that needs to happen. The SEC was delighted when, before Christmas, IHREC invited us to translate that into an action plan. Following our submission in April, we will discuss with IHREC how those documents will come into the public domain. The process in that regard is managed with IHREC.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I presume that, as part of the wider review, the SEC is not duplicating or ignoring this work and that it will feed into the wider review.
Shónagh Ní Raghallaigh (Kildare South, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Go raibh maith agat, agus mo leithscéal as ucht a bheith chomh déanach. I am sorry I was so late. I was hosting and presenting in the audiovisual room. Apologies if this issue has been covered. I have been teaching for 20 years. I have very little experience of this, to be honest. I wanted to ask about visiting teachers. I would love to know what support for visiting teachers typically looks like and how long they visit for. Is it a once-off support? Are there routine follow-ups? Is there anything the witnesses would like to offer in that regard?
Shónagh Ní Raghallaigh (Kildare South, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Ninety.
Mr. Conor Brennan:
Yes, between those three counties. The vast majority of my time is weighted towards the students who are Braille users or tactile learners. You are doing a lot of intensive teaching as well as supporting the teachers in those schools as regards the work they need to do in lieu of my weekly visits and so on. You are planning and, obviously, structuring programmes for those teachers in terms of Braille teaching and any other work that needs to be done, for instance, with younger children in learning pre-Braille literacy skills, which involves a significant amount of work prior to even learning Braille. That takes up a significant part of my working week. Obviously, I would be supporting low-vision students as well in terms of learning the assistive technology tools to access learning. I make sure that they are provided with accessible material such as large-print books. I give general advice to teachers and staff around environmental awareness and things like that to make sure there is no concern regarding the general health and safety of the students in and around their school buildings and to make sure the area around them is safe. If we have cases involving the very unique example of a student with albinism or a particular type of photophobia, I make sure that they would not be dealing with brightly lit rooms and things like that. A school can avail of support from the Department to make sure its buildings are accessible and safe.
It covers a lot of different areas, not just curricular but also expanded needs that exist for vision-impaired students. We are supporting them across the board but primarily we are teachers. We teach where we can and where it is necessary in terms of AT or Braille.
Shónagh Ní Raghallaigh (Kildare South, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
There are 16, are there?
Shónagh Ní Raghallaigh (Kildare South, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Do we need a lot more or is that sufficient?
Mr. Conor Brennan:
I can only speak for myself in terms of the cohort I have to support. I do my best to get around to as many students as possible but obviously my priority is making sure that my Braille-using students are supported as best as they can be. I also have low-vision students who may be doing State exams, who we have to support on a more regular basis. I might have students who will need additional support as regards getting familiar with a particular type of technology, a magnification device or iPad accessibility. All that needs to be specifically taught to them. I do my best to get around to supporting as many of them as I can within my working group.
Shónagh Ní Raghallaigh (Kildare South, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I would imagine that we could still do with more. Anytime the question has been asked, I do not think teachers have ever said we have enough. What makes it such that most students only receive the support of visiting teachers while others need to go to a specialist setting?
Mr. John Culhane:
There is a range of placements and a lot of it comes down to parental choice, really. I know we are talking about school placements the whole time, but the visiting teachers are working with the child and the family from the date of diagnosis, which may be from birth. They are working with them for four or five years during home life, preschool and then on. Again, the visiting teachers are having conversations with the school and the parents about what an appropriate placement is and where they think the child would succeed. Where there is a choice, the decision on the placement comes down to the parents.
Shónagh Ní Raghallaigh (Kildare South, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Would the students in, say, St. Joseph's in Drumcondra be there for their entire schooling or is it for a period of time? How does that work?
Mr. John Culhane:
We were talking about that beforehand, actually. Students can move into St Joseph's for a period of time and then return to their local school or they can be in their local school and then go to St Joseph's. Again, we are looking at parental choice and what placement they take up but it is not set in stone.
Shónagh Ní Raghallaigh (Kildare South, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Okay, it depends.
Shónagh Ní Raghallaigh (Kildare South, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I had a couple of questions on the reasonable accommodations at certificate examinations, RACE, scheme but Deputy O'Rourke tells me that Senator Curley has covered it so I will watch the recording of the debate. I not want to keep the witnesses any longer as I was so late. Go raibh míle maith agaibh as a bheith anseo.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I have a question about HR even though it is not in the realm of any of the witnesses. Mr. Brennan mentioned that he is on secondment. Deputy Ní Raghallaigh and I are both teachers. There are a few of us in the Houses on career breaks. It has always been a fact of Irish politics. Mr. Brennan and some of those 16 teachers are on the pathway to that course in Birmingham, while others have completed it. It is a fairly big personal, financial and career investment to do that. Mr. Brennan obviously has a base school where he is permanent and he has been seconded from that. This is more of a statement than a question. For the sake of people who are going on this journey, it would be great if the Department gave this more certainty than just designating it as a secondment. It is such a valuable skill for the classrooms they are going into, for the families and, most important, for the children they are helping. They should be remunerated by recognition being given to the enhanced qualification and the career leap that the teacher has taken. A lot of people have gone into teaching because they want stability for the bank and the mortgage. Everybody wants that stability model and then we come in here to the most unstable job of them all. I would like to think that if someone took that leap to go into this specialised teaching realm, it would go beyond five years, if that is what they wish. This is more of a statement than a question. I do not know if there is an answer to it here.
Mr. John Culhane:
I do not know if there is an answer either, but what I would say is there are two tracks in the visiting teacher service at the moment. The service used to be managed by the Department of education and there were permanent roles. The Department of education employed permanent visiting teachers. The visiting teacher service transferred over to the NCSE in 2018 and those permanent teachers came over as well, so they are still permanent, whereas the vast majority of visiting teachers are, like Mr. Brennan, on the seconded model. We are having a conversation in the NCSE to look at whether we can have one pathway for mature teachers. I agree with the Cathaoirleach that we invest a lot of time and money in upskilling these teachers. The committee has heard Mr. Brennan talking today and he is very knowledgeable. It would be great to have certainty about these teachers' tenure with us.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Is Deputy Ní Raghallaigh finished with her questions?
Shónagh Ní Raghallaigh (Kildare South, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Yes.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I am conscious of the time constraints. Does anyone want to make any closing remarks, reiterate any elements or address questions we might have asked that they did not have time to close out? I will start with Ms Rush, then go the NCSE, the SEC and the Department.
Ms Aoife Rush:
It is really just to reiterate the key points from my statement. At the heart of how we approach curriculum development are the principles of equity, access and participation. From the outset, we design the curriculum so that all learners can access it. We cannot do that without the support of the range of agencies that are here today. All of those and all the supports and resources that are put in place enable all learners to access the curriculum, regardless of their background or ability and based most fundamentally on what they need.
Mr. Richard Dolan:
I thank the Cathaoirleach for the opportunity this afternoon. We continue to work to support candidates with visual issues to do the State exams. As I said, we are reviewing the RACE scheme. The consultation is open and we would encourage people to go onto our website and engage with that consultation.
Mr. Frank Hanlon:
I am delighted that we were able to give the committee a lot of information about the visiting teacher service. As a Department we highly value the work it does, particularly around cohorts of children that are not large but have very specific needs. It is a really important service. We all are here today with different roles from different organisations but we have the same goal, which is to support children to reach their full potential, regardless of their disability, so that they can achieve the outcome they need for themselves.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Very well said. We sincerely thank all of you for being here today, for your opening statements, your engagement in our questions and answers and for enlightening us. I do not want to take from other work we have done, but it has been one of the more interesting sessions we have had. I was not aware of the visiting teacher service to any great extent. I knew it existed and that is about as much as I knew. We got really good briefing notes from Ms Kelly in the secretariat but to listen to what was involved here today was fantastic. Mr. O'Connor and Mr. Culhane might convey to their colleagues that it is a really valued service. We will be doing a body of work on this that will involve us visiting St Joseph's in Drumcondra, and we have more witnesses to come in after the Easter break. We will be working on this and the witnesses' testimony today has been very helpful.
I thank the secretariat and the technical team here.