Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We have apologies. Deputy Charles Ward is substituting for Deputy Boyd Barrett, Deputy Conor D. McGuinness for Deputy Gould, Senator Kyne for Senator P.J. Murphy, and Deputy Ó Cearúil for the Fianna Fáil member.

I advise members of the constitutional requirement that members must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings.

The housing crisis in the Gaeltacht has intensified in recent years, leaving many residents unable to secure affordable long-term accommodation. Rising rents, a shortage of available homes and the dominance of short-term lets are pushing people out of their communities, threatening both population stability and the future of the Irish language in these regions. Today I am pleased that we have the opportunity to consider this and other related matters with representatives from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, the Department of Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht, Údarás na Gaeltachta, Galway County Council, and Waterford City and County Council. From the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, I welcome Mr. Ronan Gallagher and Ms Claragh Mulhern.

I also welcome Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic from the Department of rural and community development; Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin, Mr. Rónán Mac Con Iomaire and Ms Marion Ní Chadhain from Údarás na Gaeltachta; Mr. Liam Hanrahan and Mr. Damien Mitchell from Galway County Council; and Mr. Seamus De Faoite and Mr. Dónal Ó Murchadha from Waterford City and County Council. My apologies if I have mispronounced any of those names.

I wish to explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practice of the Houses as regards references witnesses may make to another person in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present, or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts, is protected pursuant to both the Constitution and statute by absolute privilege. Witnesses are again reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in any such way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative they comply with any such direction.

The opening statements have been circulated to members. Live translation from Irish to English is provided through headsets on the desks for members and witnesses who wish to make their contributions through Irish. As I said, we have five groups. I propose we take the opening statements as read. Is that agreed? Agreed. Is it agreed that we publish those opening statements on the committee website? Agreed.

We have a speaking rota with the opportunity for questions and answers. We have a large number of witnesses and there will be a detailed discussion. I will confine it to five minutes for questions and answers at the beginning. I remind members that is not just for questions; they should leave time for answers. We will then go back around a second time.

Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Gabhaim buíochas le gach duine as teacht anseo inniu. Díreoidh mé ar fhinnéithe Údarás na Gaeltachta i dtús báire. Tá a lán cainte timpeall na háite gur chóir go mbeadh ról ag an údarás mar údarás pleanála. An bhfuil an taithí aige? An féidir leis é sin a dhéanamh? Mura féidir, cén sórt cúnaimh atá ag teastáil uaidh ón Stát agus na Ranna éagsúla ionas go mbeadh sé in ann é sin a dhéanamh?

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Ar an gcéad dul síos, ar shlí, tá dhá fhreagra air seo. Tá freagra thar a bheith praiticiúil. Tá, le dhá scór bliain anuas, taithí go leor ag an údarás ag plé le punann maoinithe agus cúrsaí maoinithe ar bhonn tráchtála. Níl an t-uafás taithí againn a bheith ag plé le cúrsaí tithíochta, áfach. Ar an mbonn sin, ag féachaint ar an éileamh atá ag teacht ón phobal agus ag iarraidh freastal air sin, is é an rud atá molta ag an mbord, agus tagann sé leis an bhfís atá ag an Aire agus Roinn na Gaeltachta, ná go dtacóimis agus go gcabhróimis chomh mór agus is féidir. Chuige sin, ó mhí na Samhna seo caite, táimid tar éis aon suíomh nó infreastruchtúr uisce atá againn a chur ar fáil. Tá suirbhé náisiúnta á dhéanamh againn faoi láthair chun an t-éileamh a mheas a roinnfimid leis na comhairlí áitiúla. Tá comhchoiste againn leis na comhairlí áitiúla a bhfuil ceantair Ghaeltachta acu ina limistéir, chun teacht ar fhreagra na ceiste seo.

Tá, isteach is amach, 10,000 duine ag oibriú i gcliaintchomhlachtaí an údaráis. Bhí 214 ról oscailte ag deireadh na bliana seo caite. Ní hé sin le rá nár líonadh na poist sin gheall ar easpa tithíochta amháin, ach is cinnte gur rud é a chloisimid ar an talamh ó dhaoine lá i ndiaidh lae nach bhfuil sé seo ag cabhrú le cúrsaí fostaíochta agus forbartha. Is ceist mhór í. Is í an cheist is mó fós ná a chinntiú go bhfuil an Ghaeilge slán. Chuige sin, tá sé ríthábhachtach go dtiocfadh soláthar tithíochta leis an éileamh. Táimid sásta, in aon chaoi ar féidir linn, cabhrú agus tacú leis an obair atá ar bun. Ní fheictear dúinn go gcuirfeadh sé dlús faoin phróiseas dá mbeadh cúraimí sa bhreis orainn. Is ceist í sin don Aire agus don Roinn, áfach.

Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Ní dóigh le Tomás Ó Síocháin go dtiocfadh feabhas ar an bhfadhb dá mbeadh tuilleadh cúraimí ar Údarás na Gaeltachta, fiú mar údarás pleanála.

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Ar an gcéad dul síos, tá mé den tuairim go mbeadh coimhlint idir na húdaráis phleanála atá ann faoi láthair dá dtiocfaimis anuas orthu. Sa reachtaíocht nua atá in áit, tá ról comhairleach againn chun a bheith ag féachaint ar fhorbairt na Gaeltachta. Is cinnte go bhfuil ról ansin againn chun a bheith ag féachaint chun cinn. Sa ghearrthréimhse, ag féachaint ar cheist na tithíochta faoi láthair, táimid go láidir den tuairim – tuairim an bhoird is ea é seo chomh maith – gur fearr dúinn a bheith ag tacú agus ag éascú próisis mar is é sin an bealach is fearr le go mbeadh tithe á dtógáil sna ceantair Ghaeltachta chun freastal ar éileamh an phobail.

Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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Casfaidh mé chuig na finnéithe ó Chomhairle Cathrach na Gaillimhe agus Comhairle Cathrach agus Contae Phort Láirge. Is fadhb mhór é cead pleanála. Bíonn deacrachtaí acu siúd arb as an Ghaeltacht dóibh cead pleanála a fháil sa Ghaeltacht. Cé go bhfuil local needs acu, ní féidir leo cead pleanála a fháil. Tá na finnéithe anseo thar ceann na n-údarás sna ceantair sin. Cad is cúis leis na deacrachtaí cead pleanála sin, go háirithe do dhaoine óga sna ceantair Ghaeltachta seo, go háirithe sa Rinn agus sa Ghaillimh?

Mr. Seamus De Faoite:

Freagróidh mé an cheist sin thar ceann Chomhairle Cathrach agus Contae Phort Láirge. Baineann an fhadhb is mó le one-off housing. Sna háiteanna ina bhfuil suímh againn, níl na seirbhísí ann. Sna háiteanna ina bhfuil na seirbhísí, níl na húinéirí ag díol an talaimh. Sa Rinn, tá 2.55 ha de thalamh ceannaithe againn an bhliain seo chaite agus táimid ag súil chun meascán tithe - tithe sóisialta, affordable agus an sale of site scheme - a chur ar fáil. Maidir leis an Sean Phobal i gcontae Phort Láirge, tá an approval againn ón Roinn do 12 teach sóisialta. Is í an fhadhb is mó atá againn leis seo ná go bhfuil the approval for two-beds. Tá an meascán sin uainn. I ndáiríre, níl an chomhairle contae chun an méid sin teach a thógáil ag an am céanna. I ndáiríre, is meascán de two-beds agus three-beds atá uainn. Beidh orainn phasing a dhéanamh ar an scéim ansin.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses for their presentations, particularly Galway County Council for its very extensive data that is very useful to the committee's deliberations.

I will start with the Department on planning guidelines or what are now called planning policy statements. It is about a decade since we were told the revised planning guidelines for rural housing would be produced. It is a year and a half since Darragh O'Brien sat in this chamber and told us that the publication of the updated planning guidelines for the Gaeltacht was imminent. We are still here and still waiting. Will Ms Mulhern start by giving us an update on where we are with the planning policy statements for both rural areas and the Gaeltachts? They are obviously interlinked.

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

As indicated in the housing action plan published last year, we are progressing national planning statements on both rural housing and the Gaeltacht areas. The timelines published in the housing action plan are that we will issue a national planning statement on rural housing in the second half of this year and a national planning statement on the Gaeltacht in the first half of next year. The Deputy is absolutely right that a lot of issues cross over between the two. That is something we are also very conscious of. We are working with our colleagues in the Department of Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht on the matters in relation to linguistic integrity, in particular, and how to achieve the right outcome there.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Will Ms Mulhern clarify with respect to both those statements? Is she confident those timelines will be met? This committee has heard from her predecessors on timelines that were not met. Will she also let us know who is currently being consulted by the Department on the drafting of those statements? Does she know whether it is the Minister's intention to bring those draft planning policy statements to this committee for some level of engagement prior to them being put on a statutory footing? The reason I say that is when the Planning and Development Act was being developed, there was no statutory requirement on the Minister to consult with this committee, although he or she can if they so choose. Obviously, we would be very keen to have some input through this forum.

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

We are engaging with the Minister at the moment in relation to the draft. There is work ongoing that needs to be considered in terms of the various steps that we need to take in relation to a draft and how it will be progressed. We are absolutely happy to keep the committee updated as the matter is progressed in terms of the further details.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Am I right in saying that, so far, there has been no consultation on the draft Gaeltacht planning statement with, for example, Údarás na Gaeltachta or any of the advocacy bodies that we will hear from later on today?

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

Not on the draft national planning statement, no. I suppose it is a continuation of the work that we had undertaken with those bodies previously on what was at that time the draft section 28 planning guidelines. Obviously, that work is now informing the approach we are taking and will take over the next year as we develop the national planning statement.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Would Ms Mulhern be confident that those two timelines - the second half of this year and early next year - will be met?

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

Yes. We are absolutely committed to that. The Minister is very keen to urgently advance these two important national planning statements. The Deputy will be aware that we have new legislative provisions in the Act relating to national planning statements. There are quite a few of them that will need to be progressed over time but matters relating to housing are obviously of critical importance to the Government.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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My next question is for the Department's representatives and, if we have time, the local authority witnesses. The local authorities are producing the new housing delivery plans and we understand that, as we speak, targets are being calculated by the Department through a mysterious methodology that we are all very interested to find out the details of. With respect to the provision of social, affordable and especially affordable purchase homes within the Gaeltacht areas, will there be in this round of housing delivery plans actual specific targets for delivery of social affordable homes over the lifetime of that plan to 2030 for the Gaeltacht communities that were not in the last housing delivery plans? It would be very valuable if there were such targets this time around. Maybe the Department representatives will reply first and then, briefly, those from the two local authorities.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

The Deputy will be aware that the timeframe for the plans is the next number of months. The Department is finalising its initial assessment of what the need will be. How we calculate it is different between social and affordable, as members will know, and it is slightly more complicated on the affordable side. The next step is to engage with the local authorities and for the local authorities to then engage with all of their development-----

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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My time is short and I do not want to be rude, but is there currently or will there be in that assessment any consideration of specific targets for social and affordable homes in the Gaeltacht?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

That is something we can certainly discuss with the local authorities if that would be helpful for them, but it is not-----

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Is it currently being discussed?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

No, we have not engaged in that process yet but there is no reason for it not to be part of the conversation.

Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh na finnéithe go léir. Ag leanúint ar aghaidh ó cheist an Teachta Ó Cearúil ansin, an bhfuil Tomás Ó Síocháin ag rá ar son an údaráis nach bhfuil sé ag lorg breis cúraimí ó thaobh na tithíochta go díreach, seachas an comhoibriú idir an t-údarás féin agus an chomhairle áitiúil?

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Mar a luaigh mé mar fhreagra díreach ar an gceist, is ceist don Roinn agus don Aire í ó thaobh breis cúraimí ach táimid sásta aghaidh a thabhairt air seo mar atáimid. An chloch is mó ar ár bpaidrín ná an liosta éilimh. Tá suirbhé curtha amach againn faoi láthair. Tá os cionn 200 duine tar éis teacht ar ais go dtí seo agus tá an suirbhé sin fós ar oscailt. Beimid ag lorg aiseolais ón bpobal ag iarraidh an t-éileamh a mheas. Tuigimid nach mbeidh teach ag teastáil ó gach duine acu siúd nó nach mbeadh sé indéanta ag gach duine acu siúd teach a bheith acu. Ach san áit a bhfuil an t-éileamh ann, agus táimid dírithe go huile is go hiomlán ar dhaoine le Gaeilge le cinntiú go bhfuil an soláthar in áit acu siúd, táimid sásta go bhfuil an méid gur féidir linn a dhéanamh, sa tréimhse is giorra ama, á dhéanamh againn faoi láthair. Ag féachaint amach anseo, sa reachtaíocht atá in áit, tá cúraimí orainn ionchur a bheith againn sna pleananna contae. Cinnte dearfa tá sé sin thar a bheith tábhachtach, ní hamháin ó thaobh cúrsaí tithíochta ach ó thaobh na seirbhísí agus cúrsaí pleanála agus rudaí den sórt sin. Táimid an-oscailte don ról sin a chomhlíonadh. In aon áit a bhfuil acmhainní sa bhreis chuige sin, bheimis ag cur fáilte roimhe sin. Táimid ag díriú anois, chomh mór agus is féidir, ar an rud atá os ár gcomhair amach. Mar a luaigh mé ag an tús, tá róil le líonadh againn sna cliantchomhlachtaí atá againn faoi láthair nach féidir linn a líonadh agus baineann cuid de sin le cúrsaí tithíochta. Mar sin, is ceist mhór í sin chomh maith céanna.

Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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Tá Tomás Ó Síocháin ag caint faoi thithe folmha ansin agus na pleananna atá ag an údarás ansin, is it?

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Maidin amárach, dá mbeimis in ann dul chun cinn a dhéanamh. Tá obair ar bun againn ó thaobh na dtithe folmha. Is léir ó na figiúirí go bhfuil go leor éilimh ar na tithe folmha sin. Táimid ag iarraidh go mbeadh daoine ar an eolas faoi sin agus ag tarraingt ar na scéimeanna atá in áit faoi láthair. Ach anuas air sin, feictear dúinn ag leibhéil áitiúil, go háirithe sna ceantair pobal tuaithe, bíodh siad sa Ghaeltacht nó in aon áit, go bhfuil géarghá le scéimeanna ar nós an STAR scheme atá in áit faoi láthair a bheadh in ann freastal ar sé, a hocht nó deich dteach. Dhéanfadh sé sin an t-uafás difríochta i mbailte beaga tuaithe. Dar linn, d’fhéadfaí cur leis na scéimeanna atá ann faoi láthair nó leasú beag a dhéanamh ar an srian atá ann faoi láthair ó thaobh an chláir sin STAR, go gcaithfidh níos mó ná deich dteach a bheith i gceist. Tá a fhios againn ar fad nach mbeadh an t-éileamh ann i mbailte beaga i gcomhair deich dteach ach tá na scoileanna áitiúla faoi bhrú an-mhór agus tá sé sin ag cur baic ar chúrsaí forbartha. Thabharfadh sé an deis do dhaoine a bheith ag fanacht san áit as ar tháinig siad agus Gaeilge á labhairt agus dóibh siúd atá ag iarraidh bogadh chun na Gaeltachta chomh maith céanna. Táimid ag iarraidh freastal orthu siúd freisin.

Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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Go raibh maith agat. On the private contractors and stand-alone sewerage schemes, I understand that this policy is being changed, or has been recommended to change, to go back to what it was in the past. Has Galway County Council any plans, working with Údarás na Gaeltachta, to look at schemes in any of the Gaeltacht communities in Connemara? I have mentioned An Tulach a lot of times, which is where TG4 is. There are schools, a church, housing, a health centre and businesses. It would be an ideal spot, I would suggest.

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

We have been meeting Údarás na Gaeltachta and Uisce Éireann regarding existing wastewater infrastructure with a view to working with them to progress those and trying to work with the new schemes under the forthcoming Uisce Éireann guidelines on developer-led infrastructure. The county development plan allows for clusters of five houses in rural areas, which ties in with Mr. Ó Síocháin's point about the need for schemes in Gaeltacht areas. We await the guidelines that Uisce Éireann will be working up with the Department and local authorities on what those developer-led infrastructures will be. That will support the private sector.

We are planning a number of wastewater treatment plants with Uisce Éireann in the Gaeltacht areas and in Connemara as a whole. We opened a scheme in Spiddal a couple of years ago and it means that the now-zoned residential lands, of which there is plenty in Spiddal, can be accessed through the wastewater treatment plant that has been opened by Uisce Éireann.

There is the opportunity. We have been talking to údarás about its wastewater facilities and how we can work with Uisce Éireann to deliver clusters of housing in serviced areas for people who want to live in the Gaeltacht.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Tá an ghéarchéim tithíochta uafásach sa Ghaeltacht. Níl na daoine óga ábalta teach a fháil. One million homes have been identified. That is a shortfall in the region of 12,000 homes in the Gaeltacht areas in terms of the gap to EU housing. My first question is to Galway County Council. Cé mhéad teach inacmhainne atá tógtha ag Comhairle Chontae na Gaillimhe i gceantair Ghaeltachta? How many affordable homes have been built in the Gaeltacht by Galway County Council in recent years?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

There have been none in the Gaeltacht area. We have a plan at the moment. Excuse me, but I forgot Baile Chláir, where we have 62 completed and another 66 are under construction. In the Connemara section of the Gaeltacht, though, which is probably what the Deputy was referencing-----

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Are these affordable purchase or affordable rent?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

Affordable purchase.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Affordable purchase.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

We have another scheme of 20 units for which we have land. We will be bringing this to planning very shortly. The issues we have had with affordable housing up to now have been the viability of affordable housing and the requirement to be able to offer those houses at 15% below the open market value.

Coupled with that, we have only five locations presently in the Gaeltacht area where we can build where there are municipal wastewater treatment plants. That is severely limiting where we can actually construct multi-unit developments. We are looking to do mixed tenure developments where there is a cross between social and affordable housing, where possible.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Does Galway County Council have an assessment of the level of need in terms of affordable housing for Gaeltacht areas?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

For every proposed development we do, we do an expression of interest and survey to see if there is sufficient demand to put forward a scheme. For example, we have 120 units about to start at the design phase. We will be doing a survey specifically for that, to see if there is sufficient demand for affordable units within that development. We plan to make a significant number of the units of that development affordable, in conjunction with social. That is the manner in which we plan it. We have done a countywide survey, but to get the specifics, we would really need to have the site available, because in Connemara, you are dealing with somebody coming through Lettermullen all the way into Barna, which is a significant distance on its own.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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In terms of the Department, Mr. Gallagher mentioned affordable housing. At this point, surely there should be a clear affordable housing scheme for Gaeltacht areas in terms of delivering and ensuring that young people have a future there. The Government Department centrally has a responsibility to develop that. Why has it not been done up to now?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

Our approach is to develop schemes which are inclusive, so for the most part they are national schemes. We then work with the local authorities and they identify the need. It is not for the Department to determine what that need might be in each local authority.

There is nothing that bars various schemes being developed in the Gaeltacht, including on the affordable side. In principle, the affordability constraints are bigger in the urban areas, and that is not to understate what they might be in pockets and the particular need in the Gaeltacht areas. The schemes are open. We wait on the local authorities to develop those schemes and come to us and engage on that basis. For many of the rural parts of the country, the vacant property regeneration grant has been really successful. That has had an impact in the Gaeltacht areas and on the islands as well, where there are vacant and derelict properties and significant grants being used to bring those back into use. There are different schemes working in different ways.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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I do not know if our witness from Údarás na Gaeltachta have seen them, but BÁNÚ has set out proposals in relation to the role of the údarás. We have spoken about them. Do they not agree there is a real opportunity for Údarás na Gaeltachta to develop, for example, modular home factories as an industry at a local level that would build affordable homes, give employment and build homes in Gaeltacht areas, and that it could really expand and deliver a future for young people in these areas?

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

I completely accept that point. Obviously, Údarás na Gaeltachta was set up more than 40 years ago, with the primary intention at that point of developing employment. However, since then, our role has evolved. That is not to say the role cannot be involved, but what is really clear from our point of view is, as I set out in the opening statement, is that, to date, for example, we have four companies providing modular homes employing 33 people. That is at a small scale, but it is clear the demand is there, and we are very aware of what is being done at Department level to examine whether there is further scope to extend that.

In any case, as is often as the case, where a company comes to us and expresses an interest in developing industry, we are very open to supporting that. Absolutely, it is one of the areas that we see opportunity, not only in terms of the current provision but also for innovation, because as part of the addressing the challenges that currently exist, as we have highlighted in terms of wastewater and others in Gaeltacht and rural areas more broadly, the Gaeltacht, given its size, population and mix of urban and rural, is the ideal opportunity to test many of these at a pilot scale that can then be rolled out further nationally. In any case, where there is an economic opportunity that allows for us to further develop an Gaeltacht agus an Ghaeilge a thabhairt slán, we are very open to it and keen to work with anybody who comes to us.

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

Mar gheall ar an seasamh ag an Aire Forbartha Tuaithe agus Pobail agus Gaeltachta maidir leis an gceist seo faoi thuilleadh cúraimí a thabhairt don údarás, tá sé i ndiaidh ceisteanna a fhreagairt sa Dáil agus tá sé an-soiléir in aon ráiteas poiblí ar thug sé faoin gceist seo. Tá sé ag iarraidh ról tánaisteach a bheith ag an údarás maidir le cúrsaí tithíochta. Feiceann sé go bhfuil an príomhról ag an Roinn Tithíochta, Rialtais Áitiúla agus Oidhreachta agus ag na húdaráis áitiúla. Tá sé leagtha amach go soiléir i bplean tithíochta an Rialtais an ról atá ag an údarás mar atá ráite ag Tomás Ó Síocháin, maidir le dul ag obair le hUisce Éireann agus na húdaráis áitiúla agus féachaint an bhfuil deiseanna ann suíomhanna a fhorbairt le seirbhísí iontu curtha ar fáil le haghaidh tithíocht. Tá seasamh an Aire agus na Roinne soiléir gur príomhchúram é de na húdaráis áitiúla agus den Roinn tithíochta, ach gur féidir leis an údarás rudaí áirithe a dhéanamh.

Chomh maith leis sin, beidh Bille Údarás na Gaeltachta ag teacht os comhair na Dála arís roimh an samhradh ag Céim na Tuarascála agus beidh leasú sa Bhille sin ar mhaithe le cead a thabhairt don údarás talamh atá ina sheilbh aige a fhuascailt chuig údarás nó comhlacht tithíochta. Tá an tAire soiléir nach bhfuil sé ag iarraidh go mbeidh an t-údarás ag tógáil tithíocht é féin. Tá sé ráite go poiblí aige go bhfuil ról fíorthábhachtach ag an údarás i dtaobh cruthú deiseanna fostaíochta do dhaoine sa Ghaeltacht agus nach bhfuil sé ag iarraidh go dtiocfadh aon laghdú ar an bhfócas ar an sprioc sin.

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
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I am from an island off the coast of Donegal and the local authority is put in a very unfair situation. If we had an OPW model run by the údarás which would allow a modular factory to open up in Gaoth Dobhair, for example, with the údarás backing it with the skill set it has, we would have apprentices coming in from, trained in, and building these homes in the local area. We would basically cause a revolution. We would have people working in these areas who do not want to leave these areas adding to and building their life around these the communities. Right now, what we have got going on is an absolute stalemate. There is stagnation here. In the Gaeltacht areas we need forward thinking. We need to think outside the box. For example, if we look at it, there are modular homes used in Scottish Gaeltacht areas. Why can we not try a pilot scheme to try to make this work? It is very important to realise that if we keep going the way we are going, the Gaeltacht areas are dwindling away. Take an area such as Donegal, for example, and put a modular factory for Gaeltacht homes in place. Has the Department looked at the Scottish model?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

I am not aware of it, no.

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
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There is a model for modular homes and we need to look at it. We need to look outside the box, because what is going on in Donegal is we have building outside the N56 where people are living in these areas and they cannot get planning. There are family - generational - homes there already and they cannot get planning. We have families leaving, going to urban areas and the language is dying out. We have a responsibility to try to prevail. There is a real failure here by the Department, and that needs to be acknowledged. We need to look at different ways of doing things because the way we are doing them is not working. It is not adequate. If we do not do something about it, it is going to be the same scenario.

The numbers are dwindling all the time, and there is a complete lack of transparency. There is a complete failure. We should be looking at modular homes in the Gaeltacht areas right now. Has anybody got any opinions on or seen any kind of model that could be productive and make a difference in Gaeltacht areas?

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

Maidir leis an rud a dúirt an Teachta faoi "stagnation", ó na figiúirí atá faighte againn ó Chomhairle Contae Dhún na nGall maidir le líon na gceadanna pleanála, in 2025 tugadh 457 cead pleanála as 767 iarratas. I nGaillimh, tugadh 324-----

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
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Is that in Gaeltacht areas?

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

Sna ceantair Ghaeltachta, sin é. Ceadaíodh 324 iarratas as 376 i nGaillimh. Is é sin cúpla contae-----

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
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How many completions are there? What is the completion rate?

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

Is iad seo na ceadanna. Níl na huimhreacha agam do na completions. Tabharfaidh mé roinnt figiúirí-----

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
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A person cannot live in a completion. You need to live in a completion, not-----

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

Tithe aonaracha a bheadh i go leor acu. Maidir leis an "stagnation" a luaigh an Teachta, faoi scéim an deontas athchóirithe réadmhaoine folmha, íocadh €3.1 milliúin idir 2024 agus 2025 sna ceantair Ghaeltachta. Tá-----

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
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Not all of them are Irish speaking.

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

No, ach istigh sna ceantair Ghaeltachta is léir go bhfuil pobal na Gaeltachta ag tarraingt ar na scéimeanna sin atá ag an Stát. Tá rud éigin ag tarlú. Ní aontaím go bhfuil "stagnation"-----

Charles Ward (Donegal, 100% Redress Party)
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It is not enough.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I thank our witnesses for being here today. Looking at the statements, we see consistently that people in the Gaeltacht are struggling to rent, cannot buy and in many cases cannot build in their own communities. When it comes to the State, we hear time and again that the Gaeltacht is hugely important and needs to be protected, but I can see that the two positions do not seem to be on the same side. Who exactly is responsible for delivering housing in the Gaeltacht? Is it the Department, Údarás na Gaeltachta or the local authorities?

Second, a question for the Department, why is there no dedicated operational housing delivery mechanism specifically for the Gaeltacht if the Gaeltacht is so important?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

What is in place is the Government's new housing plan, “Delivering Homes, Building Communities.” Inherent in that is the idea that there are two sides to this - the units but also supporting communities. Obviously, the Gaeltacht areas have a particular meaning in that context. What we have in that plan is a series of schemes, some of them targeting the provision of high-density housing in our cities, and others much more designed to support development in rural areas, including the Gaeltacht.

I mentioned the vacant property refurbishment grant earlier. We have had 4,500 of those grants paid to the end of 2025. More than 300 have been in the Gaeltachts and the islands. Obviously the Deputy has left, but Donegal is the powerhouse of that grant scheme. More than half of the 300 grants paid in Gaeltacht areas have been paid in Donegal. To my colleague’s earlier point, there is not much sign of "stagnation" there. Beyond that, for the next five years we are planning housing development action plans in each of the local authorities. We are in the process of engaging with the local authorities to get those plans developed. They will be quite specific in terms of the mix of tenure that is required, where the housing is required, and what the housing need is. As part of that-----

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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That is planned for five years.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

That will be a five-year perspective. What we need for the next five years-----

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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Does Mr. Gallagher have a number for how many houses the Department is hoping to provide during that timeframe?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

The Government's overall target is 300,000, and within that-----

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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What about the Gaeltacht specifically?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

It is a bottom-up process. We are at the very start of that process in terms of engagement with local authorities, which will involve identifying what the need is within the local authorities. Those local authorities which have Gaeltacht areas will feed into that engagement too. It will fall to the local authorities to consult relevant State bodies, including Údarás na Gaeltachta but also the housing developers and approved housing bodies. That is all to get a view of what we need to do, where we need to do it, and what are the best schemes to get that done by.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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What specific powers is Údarás na Gaeltachta missing that prevent it from delivering housing at scale?

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Mar atá ráite agam cheana féin, níl aon rud in easnamh orainn. Táimid sásta go bhfuil na cumhachtaí atá ag teastáil uainn in áit, agus go bhfuil dul chun cinn á dhéanamh againn ag obair leis na comhairlí áitiúla, Uisce Éireann agus na páirtithe eile. Cé go mbeidh ról straitéiseach againn go fadtéarmach ó thaobh pleananna contae agus go bhfuilimid ag ullmhú chuige sin, bunaithe ar an gcomhairle atá faighte againn, níl aon rud in easnamh orainn ó thaobh cúraimí dlí. Tá sé tugtha faoi deara againn go bhfuil sé molta ag an Aire go mbeadh cead againn fáil réidh le maoin i gcás tithíochta. Tá sé sin ag teacht leis an tuairim atá againn go bhfuilimid in ann é sin a dhéanamh. Is soiléiriú cabhrach an méid sin, ach níl sé ag tabhairt cúraimí sa bhreis dúinn, dar linn.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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The údarás has everything it needs at its disposal so there is no blockage to providing housing from its point of view.

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Níl aon bhac ónár dtaobh. Cinnte dearfach tá ceisteanna ann faoi uisce agus fuíolluisce, agus na bacanna atá ann go náisiúnta, chomh maith leis na ceantair Ghaeltachta. An sprioc atá againn ná, mar a luaigh mé cheana, féachaint ar scéimeanna níos lú. In áiteanna ina bhfuil bunscoileanna nó ceantair tuaithe faoi bhrú, tá géarghá le scéimeanna beaga tithíochta, dar linn. Bunaithe ar an taighde atá déanta againn, tá cúig uair líon na dtithe saoire i gceantair Ghaeltachta go náisiúnta. Fágann sé sin go bhfuil na pobail sin faoi bhrú. An dearcadh atá againn, ag dul ar ais go dtí pointe an Teachta Hearne, ná féachaint ar na deiseanna atá ann pobail as an nua a thógáil. Cuirfeadh na pobail beaga a bheadh sna tithí sin le líon na cainteoirí Gaeilge. Mar a luaigh mé ag an tús, beidh aon rud atá ar siúl againn dírithe go huile is go hiomlán ar dhaoine le Gaeilge.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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My only fear, and I will finish on this, is that if young Irish-speaking families cannot build or live in Gaeltacht areas, it will look like the State will have to accept that the housing system is going against its own Irish-language policy.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Beidh mise ag díriú ar an nGaeltacht i gContae na Gaillimhe i mo chuid ceisteanna. Ba mhaith liom fáil amach faoin méid talamh i nGaeltacht na Gaillimhe ina bhfuil seirbhísí ann agus zónáil feiliúnach do thithíocht faoi láthair. Cá bhfuil na háiteanna sin?

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

With regards to the zoned land in Galway County Council's area of the Gaeltacht, Galway County Council completed its variation process in February, which brings up the amount of zoned land by approximately 450 ha, including extra zoned land in Spiddal, Moycullen, Uachtar Ard and Claregalway. That brings into play land residential zoned land too, which is all serviced and all available in those zoned lands. When we did the county development plan previously, we had secondary residential zoning, but that land was service zoning and held in reserve. The variation we have just completed with our members allows for those lands to be brought into the planning process. We are talking both with our colleagues in the housing section, but also with private developers, around those zonings.

With regard to non-serviced lands and rural areas, again, we are looking, with the údarás, at places that may have údarás treatment plants and we can work with Údarás na Gaeltachta and Uisce Éireann to provide them or build upon the treatment plants the údarás had originally purposed for industrial use and see if we can use those for residential purposes, building small clusters of housing within those communities. Those are progressing. Discussions are ongoing, but we have had good engagement with Uisce Éireann about opening up to those opportunities as well. There is plenty of zoned land in the settlement areas of the Gaeltacht and we need to ensure those lands are built on at this stage.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Timpeall 450 ha a luaigh Mr. Hanrahan. Ní hé sin sa Ghaeltacht amháin. An bhfuil fhios ag Mr. Hanrahan cé mhéad atá sa Ghaeltacht? Luaigh sé Baile Chláir, Moycullen agus Carna. An rud faoi sin, agus luaigh Mr. Mitchell seo níos túisce, ná go bhfuil na ceantair sin ar imeall na cathrach agus is fada í an turas ó cheantar Carna nó Lettermullan go dtí na háiteanna sin. Cuirim fáilte roimh Mr. Hanrahan á rá go bhfuil Comhairle Cathrach na Gaillimhe ag obair lena gcomhghleacaithe ar shuíomhanna eile. Cá bhfuil siad sin? Cloisim go bhfuil dul chun cinn déanta air sin.

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

I will come back to the Deputy with figures for the Galway Gaeltacht in terms of land in which we have additional zonings. We have broken down the smaller community areas into housing need with Mr. Mitchell and his colleagues in the Department of housing in terms of the electoral divisions and social housing requirements in those areas. However, as the Deputy said, those are very much the small areas - Lettermullan, etc. - where there is no zoned land. We can develop clusters of housing in them using the new Uisce Éireann guidelines and also work on group water schemes and wastewater treatment plants developed specifically for small schemes. We will be looking at those developer-led schemes.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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B’shin iad na developer-led schemes?

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

The developer-provided infrastructure, DPI, schemes, yes.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Bíonn deacrachtaí leo sin chomh maith, nach mbíonn? Tá deacrachtaí i gceantair eile leo sin.

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

The new guidelines are due imminently. Those guidelines and the discussions we have had with Uisce Éireann are supportive of those schemes with long service, with Uisce Éireann taking them over and providing a letter of connectivity or comfort indicating that it is supportive of the scheme before it ever lands on the planner's desk. There is, for want of a better term, a pre-approval that the scheme is a good idea, rather than the planner having to assess whether the wastewater scheme can be developed.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Luaigh Mr. Hanrahan na háiteanna ar a bhfuil an comhairle cathrach ag obair le hÚdarás na Gaeltachta orthu. Ar mhiste leis a roinnt linn cá bhfuil na suíomhanna sin?

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Tá an Tulach luaite anseo cheana féin.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Sin ceann amháin. I gConamara?

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Táimid ag féachaint ar shuíomh eile ach níl sé ag an staid céanna. Is é an Tulach an ceann gur féidir linn féachaint air.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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An bhfuil a fhios againn cé mhéad tithe gur féidir a chur ar an suíomh sin?

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Braitheann sé ar cé mhéad gur féidir leis an ionad seirbhís a thógáil.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Maidir leis an pointe faoin turas ó Lettercullen go Barna nó Moycullen; tá An Cheathrú Rua ann. Tá go leor daoine ina gcónaí ann faoi láthair. Cad é an bac leis sin?

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

The treatment plant is approved for Carraroe, and we will be working on that. With Údarás na Gaeltachta, we have developed a very strong town centre first plan, which is at draft stage at the moment. Galway County Council, with the údarás and the local community, developed that. There is also zoned land within Carraroe, so development is possible. Some of it is required for social homes and, possibly, affordable homes in the future, but there are also a number of zoned pieces of land in private ownership that we hope we can now begin to see development on.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Ar dtús báire, ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a thabhairt don choiste as an gcruinniú seo a reáchtáil. Tá sé an-tábhachtach agus ar ndóigh is géarchéim an-dáiríre é seo. Géarchéim tithíochta atá ann agus géarchéim eisiach i dtaobh todhchaí na Gaeltachta. Mar dhuine atá ag cur fúm i gceantar Gaeltachta agus a bhfuil an-chuid cairde liom ag streachailt mar gheall ar an ngéarchéim tithíochta seo, agus duine a bhfuil an-bhródúil as ionadaíocht a dhéanamh ar cheantar Gaeltachta, Gaeltacht na nDéise i bPort Láirge, tá an-chuid le rá agam mar gheall ar an ábhar áirithe seo. Tá an chéad cheist do na hionadaithe ón Roinn tithíochta. N'fheadar an dtuigeann siad cé chomh dáiríre is atá an ghéarchéim áirithe seo.

My first question is for the Department of housing. Does the Department realise just how serious this existential crisis is for the Gaeltacht areas? What centuries of colonialism did not manage to achieve, the State looks very likely to achieve within 100 years of its existence, and actually, if we are being serious about it, within one generation or one decade of this growing housing crisis. It is exceptionally frustrating when young families of my generation, the next generation of Gaeilgeoirí who would like to bring their children up in the Gaeltacht and contribute to the next generation, cannot get a home in the area they come from. What is the reason behind the delay for what was the treoirlínte pleanála Gaeltachta and is now the ráiteas náisiúnta? Is there a definite timeline for when that will be published? What level of consultation will take place, not just with relevant agencies that need to be consulted but with the public in the Gaeltacht areas?

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

I thank the Deputy. As I mentioned, we are working actively on our draft national planning statement for both rural housing and in relation to Gaeltacht areas. We have been working on what would have been a section 28 ministerial guideline on both of those over the past while, with our colleagues in the Department of Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht. We absolutely accept the urgency of the issues being discussed today, and it was very important for the Government to include both of those national planning statements as actions in the Government's housing action plan, for the reasons my colleague Mr. Gallagher mentioned earlier, not only to deliver homes but also to build communities. Gaeltacht areas are specifically referenced.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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I do not mean to interrupt but specifically, what is the timeline and what level of consultation, including public consultation, will it include?

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

As I mentioned to Deputy Ó Broin, we are engaging with the Minister and colleagues in Government on the drafts of both. We will keep the committee updated as to the specifics around timelines. The timelines for the publication of both guidelines are set out in the housing action plan. In terms of further details of consultation and engagement, we will keep the committee updated.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Will there be a public consultation?

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

I expect so, but we are urgently looking at the drafting of the national planning statements in the first instance.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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With respect, it does not strike me as being particularly urgent, given where we are.

The second question, also for the Department of housing, is about measurements and data. Is there any data, or has any data been collected, on the level of housing need and demand in the Gaeltacht and is there anything on the level of housing delivery? It strikes me that, in consultation with its local authority partners, the Department would be able to assess that. Is that data available and to hand and, if so, will the witnesses go through it?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

We acknowledge there is a housing crisis all over the country. It is in the Gaeltacht and, of course, there are particular dynamics about the Gaeltacht in terms of protecting the language. We understand that. Our approach overall is to tackle the crisis, as it is affecting all of the citizens.

We are in the process of assessing what the housing need is, both on the social and affordable sides, for the next five years. We are running calculations on that, and the next step will then be to engage with the local authorities in the context of housing development action plans for each local authority. As we break down into that level of analysis, I expect, as part of that, that there will be an assessment of what the need is in the local authority area and below that.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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That analysis is for the next five years. Was there a similar analysis carried out for the previous five years? If so, is that data available?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

I need to check and come back to the Deputy on that. I have been in the job for two months, so I do not have five years' history in this area, but if there is such information, we will get it to the committee.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Yes, but surely Mr. Gallagher would have that information to hand in preparation for this meeting if it had been carried out. I would imagine he would have prepared for this meeting by accessing that if it existed.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

It will not be specific to the Gaeltacht. It will be local area-specific.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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With the indulgence of the Cathaoirleach, a piece of information or advice to take away from this would be to have that data. We are talking about a specific feature of the housing crisis, and it just beggars belief, from where I am sitting, that the data is not collated for the whole Gaeltacht. Go raibh maith agat.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

It is all there on the system in Galway in relation to our housing need and land assessment. There is a dashboard on our website that gives that information for each particular area at any given time. It is updated daily. We know exactly how many people are required in Connemara, north, south, east or west, and in Baile Chláir. That information has been put in the context of the overall piece for Connemara. That is a different exercise. In relation to social housing, that data is readily available.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Mr. Mitchell for the opening statement and the submission. It was very detailed and there was a lot of information. I do accept that local authorities will have a lot of that information. In terms of national policy, however, and a national response from the Government, the Department of housing really should have that data collated from all the local authorities and accessible to the Minister and Ministers of State in the Department and to colleagues in other Departments to inform policy. That is the point I am making. I do, however, take the point regarding Galway County Council.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

Just to come back on that, the information flows between the local authorities and the Department are strong, so that is the data. Looking at the next five years, we are in the process of working out what those figures will be and what we need to do with the amount of money the Government has set aside for dealing with the housing crisis in the context of the national development plan. That is what we are still working through. Those figures still have to be finalised. When they are finalised, they will be a matter for the public record.

Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I thank all the witnesses for coming in and for their opening statements. We are well aware of the issues being dealt with by Galway County Council and Waterford County Council in respect of second homes, especially in the Gaeltacht and tourism areas. It is a serious concern, especially for young people, to get into the housing market. In rural parts of the country, as we are all well aware, some of these young people, unfortunately, are moving to urban areas or may be emigrating, which is sad to see. This is also putting pressure on the likes of the GAA clubs, local schools, local small businesses and so on. Do the two county councils have permanent occupancy clauses built into planning permissions for Gaeltacht areas and areas with high second-home demand? As I have said, that is a big concern. Unfortunately, young people cannot get an opportunity to buy those second-hand houses. Have any enforcement actions been taken on the back of it? What are the main challenges in doing so?

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We will take the witnesses from Galway County Council first and then those from Waterford County Council.

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

I thank Deputy Cooney. There are occupancy clauses, called enurement clauses, in place. They are there for about seven years, approximately, on planning permission for a new build. Unfortunately, in the second-hand market, we do not have a role. We cannot engage in activating a clause when somebody buys a house second hand. One of the significant issues, particularly in the Connemara Gaeltacht, is when properties do come up for sale on the private market and do not have a clause. They might not have had a clause for 20, 30 or 40 years. Those properties do tend to go at auction. The experience of local people is that they can quite often be priced out of the market.

It is the case, though, that we do put occupancy clauses on any new single homes being developed. There is a requirement for people to prove their housing need and a local connection. In the Connemara area, the requirement includes having the Irish language and social and economic ties to the local community. We tend to see quite a lot of young local people returning to the area and being able to meet that clause. Indeed, returning emigrants can also meet that clause. We have a specific emigrants clause in our county development plan that supports the return of emigrants to an area. Unfortunately, however, the second-hand market is an actor we just cannot deal with at a local authority level. Most of those properties do not have a clause on them.

Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Has that new clause only been updated lately? How long ago was it updated?

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

The occupancy clause has been there for at least two county development plans.

Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I am referring to the one where a person needs to be local to the area or an Irish speaker. When did that come into the county development plan?

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

This is at least the second county development plan where that housing need clause has been identified, so it has been approximately ten years at this stage.

Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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It was probably a mistake that it was not brought in earlier to protect the young people and to try to give them a better opportunity to buy a second-hand house.

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

I would not disagree with the Deputy there.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I invite the representatives from Waterford County Council to respond to this question.

Mr. Seamus De Faoite:

To come in on that point, the same clause would apply in relation to our new planning permissions. Gaeltacht na nDéise is probably different in the sense that what we are seeing there, going back to the last census, is that our general population and our Irish-speaking population are increasing. The issue, though, is the number of new houses being built. Between 2001 and 2010, a large number of houses were being built, but only one third of that number have been built in the period since then. In relation to vacant properties and vacant homes, the vacant homes grant has been availed of seven times so far in what is a small area. That might seem like a small number, but out of a population of just over 2,000 people, those seven instances do make a difference. Our own strategy, while we have our own land, is to promote that vacant homes grant.

Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. De Faoite. Turning to the witnesses from the Department of housing, can we use legislation such as the EU Data Act to get data from utility providers that could be used by planning authorities to support the enforcement of principal private residence use and permanent occupancy clauses in Gaeltacht areas?

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

If I understand the question correctly, it is about the continuation of the occupancy rather than the initial occupancy in terms of whether it has continued to be used. From a planning perspective, as colleagues from the local authorities pointed out, planning permission is granted with the occupancy clauses in place.

Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Correct. There is a need to make sure the planning conditions are not being breached.

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

That is an enforcement matter for the local authorities, and they will investigate if any issues are raised with them in respect of potential for a property to be used not in compliance with conditions attached to the planning permission. It is perhaps something that colleagues from the local authorities may wish to come in on as well in terms of what type of information they might rely on. In terms of the use of the EU Data Act, that is perhaps something separate, but we absolutely can look it at in a broader context. Specific to properties, it is a case of what conditions are attached to the planning permission and what can be subject to enforcement, investigation and action if necessary. Obviously, that is a matter for the local authorities to pursue.

Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Could that be something the Department of housing could ask the local authorities to look into? It would be very easy to check out an ESB bill to see who is paying it, especially when the clause is on the condition.

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

It is probably a matter for the local authorities to look at in respect of the circumstances of the case rather than for the Department, but again it would depend on the context of the particular circumstances of a case as to what information might be useful. Obviously, though, from the perspective of our engagement with the utilities, it is something that we can absolutely flag as to whether there is anything that could be of assistance. It is probably more so a matter for the local authorities in the individual circumstances to investigate a particular case.

If an issue is raised with the authority, perhaps regarding a property not being used as a principal private residence, it will obviously investigate and look at the details.

Aindrias Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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Tá roinnt ábhar gur mhaith liom díriú isteach orthu. Cé nach mbaineann sé go díreach leis an gceist seo, tá an t-údarás anseo. Tá gaisce déanta le Coláiste Íosagáin. It is a mighty job. Táimid ag tnúth go mór lena oscailt a fheiceáil.

Teastaíonn uaim díriú isteach ar thithíocht aonarach ar an gcéad dul síos. I mo dhúthaigh féin, is iad tithe aonaracha an sciar is mó de na tithe atá á gcur ar fáil. Toisc gur Gaeltacht bheag atá ann - tá cúpla Gaeltacht beag i mo Dháilcheantar - táimid go léir an-chóngarach don imeall. Mura mbíonn suíomh amháin oiriúnach agus má bhíonn ort bogadh chuig suíomh eile, ní féidir leat dul rófhada ón áit ina bhfuil tú. Toisc go bhfuilimid beag, tá tú ar an imeall agus sleamhnóidh tú amach lasmuigh den Ghaeltacht tapa go leor. An dtógann na comhairlí contae san áireamh in aon chor riachtanais Ghaelainne nuair a bhíonn measúnú á dhéanamh ar local need i gcomhair tithíochta? Tá a fhios agam nach dtógann i gCorcaigh. B'fhéidir go bhfuil sé difriúil sna contaetha éagsúla. An bhfuil aon chontae faoi leith ag tógáil é sin san áireamh? An bhfuil deis ann é sin a bheith tógtha san áireamh? Tá athbhreithniú á dhéanamh faoi láthair ar na pleananna forbartha ar fud na tíre. Baineann sé sin leis na spriocanna tithíochta a leagadh síos anuraidh. An bhfuil an deis sin á glacadh chun feabhsúchán a dhéanamh ar na pleananna forbartha chun riachtanais mhuintir na Gaeltachta a chur san áireamh? Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil Comhairle Contae Chorcaí ag cur feabhas ar an bplean forbartha. An bhfuil an deis sin á glacadh i gcontaetha eile ar fud na tíre anois nuair atá an t-athbhreithniú á dhéanamh ar na pleananna forbartha sin?

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We will start with Waterford City and County Council, followed by Galway. We might then ask the Department if it is aware of that happening in other counties.

Mr. Seamus De Faoite:

I dtaobh an phlean forbartha atá ag Port Láirge, tá dhá phointe ann i ndáiríre. Nuair atá dhá theach nó níos mó i gceist, is gá go mbeadh 80% ábalta an Ghaelainn a labhairt. I gcás na tithe one-off, caithfidh na daoine sin a bheith in ann taispeáint dúinn go bhfuil ceangal láidir acu leis an áit. Agus é sin ráite, i ndáiríre, caithfimid daoine a mhealladh isteach chomh maith. I gComhairle Cathrach agus Contae Phort Láirge, táimid ag féachaint arís ar na serviced sites agus an deontas tí. De réir census 2022, bhí 7.5% de na tithe atá againn folamh. Táimid ag iarraidh an scéim seo a chur amach.

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

Galway County Council has that same Irish-language clause for housing estates. That is 80%. If it is a social housing estate, people have to be on our housing list. The housing liaison officer assesses them across all categories and they have to carry out an Irish interview with our housing liaison officer, who is a native Irish speaker. With regard to the one-off houses, as with Waterford, it is based on the housing need and on chapter 13 of our county development plan, which specifically focuses on the Gaeltacht area. It is a complete chapter of the county development plan focused on ensuring that the Connemara and other Gaeltacht areas of Galway are supported to be developed and that the linguistic, heritage and cultural values of the Gaeltacht are linked to that development. I refer not only to housing development, but also to the type of commercial, economic and tourism development on which the údarás and ourselves work hand in glove.

Aindrias Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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Lena bheith cinnte, nuair a bhíonn tithe sóisialta á gcur ar fáil sa Ghaillimh, bíonn an teanga tógtha san áireamh mar cheann de na spriocanna a bhaineann leis sin.

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

It is, yes.

Aindrias Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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An gcuireann aon chontae eile é san áireamh ó thaobh tithíocht sóisialta?

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Is the Department aware of other local authorities that do that?

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

I do not have that specific information but we can follow up and provide details to the Deputy.

Aindrias Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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Mar sin, is léir nach bhfuil aon bhac ar theanga a thógáil san áireamh nuair a bhíonn tithe sóisialta á gcur ar fáil.

Mr. Seamus De Faoite:

Tá an riail chéanna á húsáid ag Port Láirge chomh maith.

Aindrias Moynihan (Cork North-West, Fianna Fail)
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Brúfaidh mé ar aghaidh le ceist an-tapa chuig an údarás maidir le tithe inacmhainne. Tá talamh ag an údarás. Tuigim go bhfuil an t-údarás báúil. An bhfuil sé ar a chumas tithe inacmhainne a chur ar fáil ar fud na tíre sna Gaeltachtaí éagsúla? An bhfuil aon bhrú faoi leith? An mbeadh aon ualach breise ar an údarás chun é sin a dhéanamh?

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Táimid an-oscailte maidir le tithe inacmhainne, tithe pobail, a raibh muid ag caint orthu anseo, nó aon scéim eile a chuireann tithíocht ar fad. Níl muid ag cur aon rud ó dhoras. In áit ról lárnach a bheith againn, táimid ag rá go bhfuilimid sásta talamh a chur ar fáil agus a bheith ag obair leis na húdaráis áitiúla, na AHBs ná aon dreamanna eile a thiocfadh chun cinn chun é sin a dhéanamh. Is cinnte dearfach go bhfuilimid oscailte chuige sin. Más féidir ár gcuid talún nó ár n-áiseanna uisce agus fuíolluisce a úsáid chuige sin, táimid an-oscailte chuige sin.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Tá brón orm nach raibh mé anseo. Bhí obair eile le déanamh agam. Feicim go bhfuiltear ag déileáil le ceist na tithíochta. Is í an phríomhcheist ná seo: cad iad na rudaí atá á ndéanamh chun a dhéanamh cinnte de go bhfuil teacht ar thithíocht sa Ghaeltacht ó thaobh infreastruchtúir, suíomhanna agus pleanáil don todhchaí? Bhí mé ag labhairt le hÚdarás na Gaeltachta roimhe seo faoi suíomhanna. Níl a lán de shuíomhanna an údaráis feiliúnach do thithíocht. Tá siad ceannaithe nó faighte chun déileáil le tionsclaíocht agus a leithéid. Tá suíomhanna ann agus tá roinnt acu aitheanta ag an údarás, cé gur gá roinnt athruithe a dhéanamh orthu. Conas is féidir linn déanamh cinnte de nach mbeidh ceantair Ghaeltachta fágtha taobh thiar? Níl siad ag an leibhéal céanna ó thaobh infreastruchtúir agus níl siad mar thosaíocht ag, mar shampla, Uisce Éireann agus ESB Networks. Má tá 20 teach breise ag teastáil i gceantar amháin i gcomparáid le 200 i gceantar lasmuigh den Ghaeltacht, díreoidh Uisce Éireann ar an 200. Is í sin an bhunfhadhb. Bíonn eastáit tithíochta i bhfad Éireann níos lú sna ceantair sin ach tá luach leo ó thaobh chosaint a dhéanamh ar an nGaeltacht, tobar na Gaeilge. Cad is féidir a dhéanamh?

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We might ask the Department of the Gaeltacht to come in on the question of the provision of infrastructure and the údarás. What engagement has the Department had with the Department of housing in that regard?

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

Tá treoir tugtha go poiblí ag an Aire. Thug sé treoir don údarás agus dúirt sé go bhfuil sé toilteanach más mian leis an údarás talamh a chur ar fáil agus dul i ngleic le fadhbanna uisce agus séarachais i gcomhar le hUisce Éireann agus na húdaráis áitiúla. Tá sé ag cur foráil ina thaobh sin isteach sa Bhille údaráis anois. Beidh an Bille sin ag teacht os comhair na dTithe arís roimh an samhradh. Beidh cead ag an údarás talamh a thabhairt d'údaráis tithíochta nó comhlachtaí tithíochta ar mhaithe le tithíocht a chur ar fáil. Mar a dúirt mé, níl an tAire ag iarraidh go mbeidh an t-údarás ag cailleadh fócais ar an gcúram fostaíochta atá air. Tá sé ag iarraidh go mbeadh sé ag cur na suíomhanna ar fáil ach go mbeadh sé ag tógáil foirgnimh tionsclaíochta agus tograí a ghineann fostaíocht do phobal na Gaeltachta seachas a bheith ag tógáil tithe.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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An bhfuil an tAire chun suíomhanna a cheannach chun iad a thabhairt ar aghaidh? Tá a fhios againn an méid talaimh atá ag an údarás agus go bhfuil fíorbheagán talaimh sa Ghaeltacht ag an Roinn. Cárbh as a dtiocfadh na suíomhanna seo?

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

Tá cead ag an údarás tuilleadh talaimh a cheannach. Níl aon chosc air seachas go gcaithfidh sé teacht ar ais ag an Roinn le haghaidh talamh le luach os cionn €400,000 a cheannach. Le haghaidh aon rud os cionn €400,000, caithfidh sé cead a fháil ón Aire é a cheannach. Baineann sé sin le talamh a mbeadh in úsáid le haghaidh cúrsaí tionsclaíochta. Go ginearálta, faoin reachtaíocht, tá cead ag an údarás talamh a cheannach.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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An bhfuil an Roinn ag geallúint go mbeidh airgead breise ann má lorgaíonn an t-údarás é?

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

Is rud eile é airgead breise, mar atá a fhios againn féin. Mar aon le mo chomhghleacaithe anseo ón Roinn tithíochta, caithfimid dul chuig an Roinn caiteachais phoiblí chuile bhliain agus faighimid méid teoranta airgid. Bíonn orainn é sin a dháileadh amach, bíodh sé sin chuig an gcóras pleanála teanga nó ceann eile de na rudaí éagsúla atá á ndéanamh againn. Mar a dúirt mé, níl an tAire ag iarraidh go gcaillfeadh an t-údarás fócas ar an jab atá aige maidir le fostaíocht a ghiniúint agus fiontraíocht a spreagadh sa Ghaeltacht. Beidh cinntí le déanamh ag an údarás leis an airgead a fhaigheann sé ón Státchiste agus ó fhoinsí ioncaim eile - cíosanna agus a chuid acmhainní féin. Beidh cinntí le déanamh ag an údarás. Má tá iomaíocht ann ó thaobh suíomhanna tionsclaíochta nó suíomhanna tithíochta a cheannach, beidh ar an údarás na cinntí sin a dhéanamh. Tá coimhlint ann. Caithfear é sin a chur san áireamh in aon rud atá ar bun.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Ní cheannófá mórán ar €400,000. Tá an bar an-íseal sula mbíonn ar an údarás dul chuig an Aire.

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

Níl mé ag rá nach bhfaigheadh sé cead. Caithfidh sé teacht ar ais ag an Aire le haghaidh cead a fháil aon rud os cionn an fhigiúir sin a cheannach.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Tá air teacht chuige i gcomhair gach uile shuíomh gur mhaith leis a cheannach.

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

Yes.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I ndáiríre, bheadh air dul chuig an Roinn chun cead a fháil aon suíomh a cheannach.

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

Níl a fhios agam an bhfuil aon rud le rá ag an údarás faoi sin. Chonaic mé ceann nó dhó le deireanaí agus táthar ag fáil luach airgid astu.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Ar an ábhar céanna, luaigh an príomhfheidhmeannach go bhfuil deis ag an údarás talamh a cheannach. An bhfuil deis ag an gcomhairle contae tuilleadh talaimh i gceantair Ghaeltachta a cheannach chomh maith? An bhfuil plean ag ceachtar de na comhairlí contae é sin a dhéanamh?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

Speaking for Galway County Council, yes, we do. In fairness to the Department, many of the obstacles we have talked about have been resolved through the land acquisition fund providing a mechanism to provide funding to local authorities to purchase land. The housing activation office has been set up. That provides a mechanism to remove some of the infrastructural deficits. That might be a junction upgrade, road improvements, additional capacity in the existing wastewater treatment plant system or a planning variation to increase the availability of land.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Ar an bpointe sin, an bhfuil aon suim dhíreach ag an gcomhairle cuid den talamh sin a bhfuil zónáil nua air a cheannach?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

The acquisition of land is a negotiation. In Galway, we have assessed every available piece of land zoned R1 or R2. We are aware of these lands and the units that could potentially be developed on them. We have made an application to the housing activation office for funding to address particular infrastructural issues that have arisen. There is no issue with the purchase of land. The land acquisition fund is there.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Ag bogadh ar aghaidh chuig an Roinn, táimid ar fad anseo ag caint faoin moill ar leith atá ann i gceantair Ghaeltachta ó thaobh teanga. An mbeadh an Roinn sásta maoiniú a thabhairt d'aon údarás áitiúil a bhfuil ceantair Ghaeltachta ina limistéar, mar shampla, Port Láirge, Gaillimh nó Corcaigh, chun talamh a cheannach sna ceantair sin?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

Yes. We have a series of schemes including schemes for affordable purchase, cost rental and vacant property regeneration. All of those are available nationwide, including in the Gaeltacht. The Department will look at any proposal that comes to the table and make that assessment. We are absolutely open to that.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Níos luaithe sa chruinniú, luaigh daoine go raibh fadhb leis an scéim inacmhainne i mBaile Chláir agus leis an difríocht idir an costas a bhí ag an údarás áitiúil agus an méid a fuair sé ón Roinn faoin scéim; sé sin the viability gap.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

To clarify, there was no issue with a viability in Claregalway or Baile Chláir. That is one of the areas where there was no problem. When I spoke about the viability gap, I was referring to a requirement to qualify for the affordable housing scheme. The cost to the individual has to be 15% less than the open market value. We were finding that difficult to provide for in areas outside of the MASP area of Galway. Baile Chláir is within the MASP area. For example, in Oughterard, before the open market values increased, which is making them more viable again, there was a case-by-case flexibility associated with the subsidy under affordable housing schemes. We make submissions to the Department in that regard and, to be perfectly honest, it has been very helpful in making schemes wider. That means we are now able to push forward. We are in the throes of developing a scheme in Oughterard. There is potentially a scheme coming in Bearna. As I have said, we also have schemes in Claregalway. It is our intention to expand more of these affordable housing schemes throughout the county, not just in the Gaeltacht area.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Beidh scéim inacmhainne i mBearna. There will be an affordable housing scheme in Bearna. Luaigh Liam Hanrahan go raibh caibidil sa phlean forbartha don cheantar Gaeltachta sa chontae amháin. Roimhe seo, bhí plean forbartha áirithe don Ghaeltacht amháin. An bhfuil mórán difríochta idir an dá rud?

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

They were amalgamated into one county development plan. The chapter then became the chapter for the area. All of the local area plans are now going to be part of the new county development plan. The MASP area has its own plan included in that.

Chapter 13 is essentially the policies, the development management standards, the housing needs standards and the cultural heritage requirements for it.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Tá siad mar an gcéanna.

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

Yes.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Casann finnéithe de chuid BÁNÚ linn go minic agus cuireann siad béim ar an scéim ready to build. An bhfuil aon suim ag Comhairle Chontae na Gaillimhe nó Chomhairle Cathrach agus Contae Phort Láirge an scéim sin a chur i bhfeidhm sna ceantair Ghaeltachta atá ina limistéir?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

From a Galway perspective, we have very limited lands in the Gaeltacht areas.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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You can buy it.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

Of course. There are five locations where we can buy land to build units and where there are municipal wastewater treatment plants. The ready to build scheme states that you have to connect to a mains wastewater treatment system. At the moment, we have five locations.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Tá a fhios agam gur thug an Cathaoirleach neart ama dúinn, ach tá ceist amháin eile agam. Ar chaith Roinn na Gaeltachta airgead riamh ar chúrsaí fuíolluisce?

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

Níl mé in ann a rá má chaith. Tá sé sin ag dul siar blianta. Níl mé in ann a rá. Seiceálfaidh mé é sin.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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If Dr. Mac Cormaic could get the details on that and send them to us, we would appreciate it.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Níl mórán ama agam. Mar sin, déanfaidh mé mo dhícheall a bheith sciobtha. Is iontach na finnéithe ar fad a fheiceáil anseo ó Ghaillimh. Tá mo chéad cheist dírithe ar na finnéithe ó Chomhairle Chontae na Gaillimhe. Tá brón orm más rud é gur cuireadh na ceisteanna seo cheana. Bhí mé ag freastal ar choiste eile a bhfuil mé mar bhall de. Baineann an cheist le Ros an Mhíl, Eanach Mheáin agus na tithe ansin. Ón méid a thuigim, cuireadh maoiniú ar fáil do roinnt de na tithe sin. Cad iad na tithe ar cuireadh maoiniú ar fáil dóibh?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

Funding was made available to a local AHB, Tearmann Éanna, to develop the sites at Ros an Mhíl and Eanach Mheáin. The sites were never completed and remained-----

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Sorry, I am so limited on time. Cé mhéad teach a chuirfear ar fáil don chomhairle contae? Tuigim ó fhreagra a fuair mé i gceist parlaiminte go mbeidh-----

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

Funding has been made available to continue the development at Ros an Mhíl only.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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An gcuirfear anailís ar fáil a mhíneoidh an fáth nach mbeidh na tithe in Eanach Mheáin á gceannach?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

Tearmann Éanna AHB produced a report in relation to the viability of the works required to remediate and complete the scheme. That was submitted to the Department. It was found that it was unviable at that time.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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An é díreach an costas is cúis leis sin? Má bhreathnaíonn muid ar cost-benefit analysis, tá sé iomlán difriúil le ceantair cosúil le Ceantar na nOileán. Mar is eol dúinn, níl na suíomhanna ar fáil le seirbhísí cuí chun tithíocht a chur ar fáil. Má tá tithe i gceantair, is fíorthábhachtach iad a choinneáil don cheantar sin. An raibh sé sin mar chuid den anailís a rinneadh air seo?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

As I said, the initial scheme at Eanach Mheáin was for holiday homes.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Tá a fhios agam.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

They were designed in a specific manner. To refurbish those houses to bring them to all building regulation standards would require a significant amount of money. Structural issues were also highlighted and identified as part of the scheme. All of that was taken into consideration and the Department came back with a directive to us that there would be no further funding and that Tearmann Éanna would proceed to sale. That will probably be on the open market.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Is mór an trua é más rud é go bhfuil tithe ann. Tuigim nach bhfuil an t-eolas ar fad agam agus, mar gheall air sin, b’fhearr liom breathnú air níos doimhne. Tá mé tar éis FOI a chur isteach i gcomhair na tuairisce sin.

Maidir le Ros an Mhíl, cén uair a chuirfear na tithe seo ar fáil do mhuintir an cheantair?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

I can engage with the Deputy on Eanach Mheáin outside of the meeting-----

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Excellent.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

-----if she prefers, just to go through the details of that.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Just on timing.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

We have just got the notification in relation to Ros an Mhíl. We have to start a procurement process to identify a developer to develop it for us as a local authority.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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An bhfuil amlíne ann?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

We hope it can be delivered this year. If not, it will be early next year.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Chomh luath sin.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

That is what we are hoping.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Iontach. Tá súil agam gurb amhlaidh a bheidh sé.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

It is completely dependent on the structural reports we have in relation to that.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Guím gach rath ar Chomhairle Chontae na Gaillimhe leis sin. Is maith an rud é.

Cé mhéad suíomh atá ag Comhairle Chontae na Gaillimhe faoi láthair le seirbhísí? B’fhéidir gur luadh é seo níos luaithe. Bhí caint ann faoi chúig shuíomh go bhféadfadh sé ceannach. Cé mhéad atá ag an gcomhairle i ndeisceart Conamara nó ar na hoileán amuigh ón chósta?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

Pardon me. How many sites-----

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Sites with services that could be built on in terms of south Connemara or the islands, not in the other Gaeltacht areas.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

We have very few. We have a site in south Connemara but it does not have services. We are extremely limited to lands in Connemara-----

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Tá a fhios agam é sin.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

-----and the Gaeltacht in total. We have to buy. The LAF I mentioned will provide the mechanism to allow us to buy more land. The DPI that Uisce Éireann has just introduced will allow us to consider developments outside of the settlement areas that are there - the identified settlement areas with wastewater treatment plants - so that is positive news. As of now, we have very limited lands.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Níl aon suíomh ag an gcomhairle le seirbhísí. Basically, there are no sites with services.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

No.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Ar na hoileáin amuigh ón chósta, an bhfuil suíomhanna iontu ar féidir leis an gcomhairle tithe a thógáil iontu? Are there any sites on the Aran Islands the council could identify to buy to build houses on?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

There is a small amount of land but I think it is leased to an AHB at the moment.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Suíomh amháin agus tá AHB i gceist. Cén oileán atá i gceist? Inis Meáin?

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

No. Inis Oírr.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Inis Oírr, okay. Níl suíomhanna ar aon cheann de na hoileáin eile, áiteanna ar féidir leis an gcomhairle tithíocht a chur ar fáil iontu.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

There are some lands at Cill Rónáin-----

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Is féidir leis an gcomhairle an talamh sin a cheannach agus tithíocht a chur ar fáil.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

-----that we own.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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An bhfuil seirbhísí ar fáil?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

No. There are no services.

Mairéad Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Tá talamh ann go mb’fhéidir go mbeidh an comhairle in ann tithíocht a chur ar fáil ann.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

Yes, we can get that.

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Tá dhá cheist agam. Ar an gcéad dul síos, gabhaim leithscéal mar bhí mé ag freastal ar choiste eile agus b’fhéidir go ndéanfaidh mé athrá ar cheisteanna a cuireadh cheana féin. An bhféadfadh finnéithe ón údarás nó ceann de na comhairlí contae uasdátú a thabhairt ar an áit ina seasann muid maidir leis an ról comhordaithe a chur ar bun le haghaidh na n-údarás áitiúla ó thaobh tithe folmha a chur ar ais in úsáid? Cén dul chun cinn atá á dhéanamh ina thaobh sin faoi láthair?

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We will take Údarás na Gaeltachta first.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

From a Galway county perspective-----

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I was going to take údarás first to give Mr. Mitchell a break.

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Tá dul chun cinn á dhéanamh. Tá figiúirí anseo agus beidh mé in ann iad a roinnt leis an Teachta faoi líon na dtithe folmha atá líonta faoi scáth na n-údarás áitiúla éagsúla. Chun achoimre a dhéanamh ar an obair atá ar bun faoi láthair, tá ról lárnach ag an oifigeach atá fostaithe le Comhairle Contae Mhaigh Eo. Tá sé tar éis teagmháil a dhéanamh leis na comhairlí áitiúla ar fad agus tá anailís á déanamh ar na baic is mó atá ann. Bunaithe ar an méid sin agus an t-eolas atá faighte aige, tá dul chun cinn agus tá airgead tarraingthe síos do riar mhaith tithe faoin scéim sin, go háirithe i gContaetha Dhún na nGall, Mhaigh Eo agus na Gaillimhe, agus beidh muid ag iarraidh cur leis sin. Cheana féin, tá sé tar éis labhairt leis na heagrais fhorbartha pobail ar fad atá faoi chúram an údaráis chun eolas a roinnt leo agus iad a chur ar an eolas faoin chur chuige atá ann. Tá muid ag cur tús, as seo go ceann roinnt seachtainí, le feachtas le tuilleadh eolais a roinnt agus geallsealbhóirí a mhealladh le bheith páirteach maidir leis an gcaoi ar féidir rudaí a athnuachan. Chomh maith leis sin, tá obair comhordaithe ar bun agus beidh sé seo á dhéanamh as seo go ceann bliana.

Táimid ag iarraidh féachaint ar an eolas atá faighte ó thaobh an GeoDirectory agus anailís a dhéanamh air sin ar an talamh. Beidh daoine ag dul ó dhoras go doras ag féachaint ar na tithe agus ag fáil amach an bhfuil an dá rud ag teacht lena chéile. Tá tuairim againn, atá bunaithe ar fhianaise go pointe, go bhfuil níos mó tithe folmha nach bhfuil ar an liosta agus gur féidir linn cur le líon na dtithe sin. Beidh sé isteach ag deireadh na bliana seo nó ag tús na bliana seo chugainn sula mbeidh-----

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Beidh an t-eolas sin ar fad bailithe le chéile faoi dheireadh na bliana seo, an mbeidh?

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Tá súil againn tosú le roinnt áiteanna ar bhonn píolótach agus é a leathnú amach ina dhiaidh sin. Tá go leor-----

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Ní bheidh an t-údarás ag fanacht don-----

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

De réir mar a thagann an t-eolas chun cinn, beimid in ann an t-eolas sin a roinnt agus féachaint leis na húdaráis-----

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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An bhfuil tithe aitheanta ag an údarás a bhfuil sé ag díriú isteach orthu i gcomhair athchóirithe?

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Táimid ag féachaint ar dhá limistéar faoi láthair a bhfuil muid sásta go maith go bhfuil níos mó tithe folmha ann ná mar atá ar an liosta. Táimid ag iarraidh na limistéir sin a úsáid mar shampla agus ansin tógáil air sin.

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Tá ceist agam do na húdaráis áitiúla. Baineann sé leis an sciar de thithe poiblí agus sóisialta i gceantair Ghaeltachta. Rith rud liom nuair a bhí mé ag déanamh anailís air seo cúpla bliain ó shin, is é sin, go raibh an sciar de thithe sóisialta i gceantair Ghaeltachta níos lú ná an sciar de thithe sóisialta go náisiúnta ná sa chontae. Táim ag iarraidh tuiscint a fháil. Cén fáth go bhfuil níos lú tithe sóisialta i gceantair Ghaeltachta go comhréireach i gcomparáid leis an gcontae ar fad nó leis an tír ar fad? An féidir le duine ó cheann de na húdaráis áitiúla freagra a thabhairt dom air sin?

Mr. Seamus De Faoite:

I dtaobh Ghaeltacht na nDéise, i ndáiríre, níl éileamh mór againn faoi láthair na huaire. Níl ach 12 duine nó mar sin ar an liosta. Agus é sin ráite, is dóigh linn go bhfuil daoine amuigh ansin nach bhfuil ag cur isteach ar ár liosta ar aon chor. Chomh maith leis sin, tá suirbhé déanta againn a insíonn dúinn go bhfuil os cionn 20 duine nó mar sin ag lorg tithe affordable. I ndáiríre, nuair a fhéachaimid ar na figiúirí sin agus ar an ioncam atá ag teacht isteach, is tithe sóisialta gur chóir do na daoine seo a bheith á lorg.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

Approximately 25% of those receiving social housing supports through HAP, RAS, the local authority or an AHB in Galway are in Gaeltacht areas. That is a significant portion. As my colleague has mentioned, it comes down to demand and evidence.

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil mé thar am ach an bhfuil cúrsaí éilimh i nGaillimh faoi mar atá siad i bPort Láirge?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

I am sorry; I did not catch the question.

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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It seems the demand is not there in Waterford. Is it the same in Galway?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

No. Galway has a larger Gaeltacht. It has the largest Irish-speaking area. There are also more settlement areas in Galway. There are more areas where people can decide to reside or where we can allocate them houses.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I have a couple of questions. I am not an Irish speaker. That is one of my regrets. One of my priorities is to be able to speak our native tongue. We recently had the GAA, the Office of the Planning Regulator and the CCMA in here with regard to demographics. The GAA's demographics report provides stark figures as to depopulation across the entire western seaboard and the effect this is having on rural settlements, villages and clubs. We have facilities but clubs are dying and schools have empty classrooms. People are migrating to our cities. What processes is the Department of the Gaeltacht putting in place, perhaps through engagement with the Department of housing, to bring people back to the Gaeltacht areas? The figures in that report were stark, particularly with regard to Donegal, Mayo, Clare, Galway, Cork and Kerry, where there is massive depopulation. I know that changes are going to be made with regard to rural one-off housing but what is the Department of the Gaeltacht doing?

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

The údarás is a body under our aegis. It is implementing the legislation the Dáil and the Seanad pass to develop employment opportunities in the Gaeltacht. On top of that, the Cathaoirleach might have noticed that we published a national plan for the provision of Irish-medium services. The associated action plan was published in January. I will refer to one of the initiatives under that. The údarás consistently informs us that it is really hard to get companies to go out beyond a certain point. For example, in the Galway Gaeltacht, it is hard to get multinational companies to go out beyond Baile na hAbhann and into the more remote areas, which are stronger Irish-speaking areas, and to provide employment there.

One of the initiatives we are looking at in the context of public services and in our action plan is to carry out a feasibility study with regard to creating public service hubs in those stronger Gaeltacht areas we cannot draw multinational employment into to keep people in them, which is something that has an impact on school numbers, GAA clubs and the whole ecosystem in these areas. One of the things we are going to do this year is to carry out that feasibility study. The intention is to have teams of civil servants, and potentially public servants as well, working back-office jobs in these hubs, bringing high-quality employment to these stronger Irish-speaking areas of the Gaeltacht. It goes against the grain in that we usually put the jobs in Dublin, Galway city or wherever and bring the Irish speakers there. The intention with this is to bring the jobs to where the Irish speakers are or where they want to come back to. That is one of the main planks of our strategy. We would use the services of the údarás to develop those facilities, which we would then market to public bodies. That is just one element.

On the housing thing, we are obviously talking to the Department of housing. Deputy Jack Chambers initiated that discussion when he was our junior Minister. He and I met with Deputy Darragh O'Brien, who was the Minister at the time, to initiate that discussion around the Gaeltacht planning guidelines, which have morphed into the national planning statement. That is another element. If you are providing jobs in these areas, you need to make it easier for people who have the language to come back and reside there.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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There was mention of the údarás disposing of lands. It was said that some of it would not be suitable for housing. If some of it is suitable for housing, would it be a condition that housing built on those lands would only be for native Irish speakers?

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Údarás na Gaeltachta has a portfolio of just under 1,000 ha and about 500 commercial units. Mar a dúirt an Dr. Mac Cormaic ansin, the track record over the last 40 years has been very successful. We have just under 10,000 people employed in client companies. Considering the remote and rural nature of Gaeltacht areas, that compares very favourably with employment profiles across other rural and remote areas. Within that, it is important to highlight that not all Gaeltacht areas are the same. There are strengths and weaknesses in different areas in terms of the sectors they operate in. A good measure to examine is the latest census data. The population with Gaeltacht areas nationwide has grown. It is clear that people are moving to these areas but, again, it is not even across the board. One of the most important things we are focused on is making sure that it is spread evenly and addressing the issues the Cathaoirleach has raised. We are very much seeing that. We carried out some work on fiontar shóisialta, or social enterprise, which is particularly strong in the Gaeltacht. We have over 33 community development organisations. These strengths really highlight the opportunities communities provide. More broadly, as I mentioned earlier, there were over 200 jobs remaining to be filled in our client companies at the end of last year. Again, that is a trend we have seen. From our point of view, it is really important that we are in a position to facilitate those people who want to move. As the rúnaí cúnta has mentioned, the development in respect of Government services is very welcome.

Again, it creates a mix across industries and sectors and that is really important from our point of view. We are among the most successful areas nationally in terms of disruptive innovation technology funding, DTIF, through our client companies. That is really important in ensuring that it is not all within FDI or RND but it is also within social enterprise. It is a spread and a mixed profile to ensure that once we create those opportunities, people can remain in the areas. That is core to ensuring go bhfuil an Ghaeilge ann i gcónaí.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We will have a second round as we have about 20 minutes left. There are five members here, so four minutes apiece. I will start on my right with Deputy Ó Snodaigh.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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B’fhéidir nach bhfuil na figiúirí ag na finnéithe ach cé mhéad iarratas a fuair an Roinn tithíochta don deontas do thobar príobháideach nó don scéim chun deontas a chur ar fáil do domestic wastewater treatment as ceantair Ghaeltachta? Cé mhéad don €243 milliún clár uisce tuaithe a bhí nó atá curtha ar fáil do thograí i gceantair Ghaeltachta?

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

I thank the Deputy. Colleagues from the water division are not with us today but we can absolutely follow up at a later time and give whatever information is available on that question to the members of the committee.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Gabhaim buíochas le Claragh Mulhern. Bheadh sé sin áisiúil.

An bhfuil straitéis ag na comhairlí contae maidir le tithe samhraidh a cheannach agus iad a chur ar fáil do theaghlaigh atá ag tógáil a bpáistí le Gaeilge nó na tithe a chur ar an liosta tithíocht shóisialta nó inacmhainne?

Mr. Seamus De Faoite:

I dtaobh Phort Láirge, táimid i gcónaí ag féachaint ar thithe agus an liosta atá againn don áit. An rud is mó atá againn i nGaeltacht na nDéise i bPort Láirge faoi láthair na huaire ná go bhfuil ár suíomh féin de 2.5 ha againn, agus tá masterplan á dhéanamh ar an suíomh sin. Air sin, táimid ag féachaint ar thithe sóisialta, affordable tithe agus an scéim do na suíomhanna chomh maith.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

We do not have a specific strategy in relation to it but we will consider any houses that are available for specific needs. Generally, the purchase is for new builds but where second-hand houses become available we would purchase for homelessness, disability or specific needs. This is where we would look for second-hand houses.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Ó thaobh teaghlaigh le Gaeilge, ní “specific need” atá i gceist faoi láthair, just iad siúd gan dídean agus iad siúd le héagumas?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

Under our allocations policy where we have people on our housing list, they would come under certain categories. Then if we were to purchase, we would purchase for a specific need under those categories. The Gaeltacht and the Irish language is a planning clause, so 20% to 80% of new builds would be associated with Irish speakers.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Tuigim é sin ach fad is atáimid ag feitheamh ar an bplean nó rud éigin, mar shampla i bPort Láirge, bíonn tithe ar díol. Bíonn siad costasach ach bíonn siad ar díol. Uaireanta is féidir iad a cheannach chun déileáil le fadhbanna bunúsacha a bhíonn sna ceantair sin, áit a bhfuil titim ó thaobh an daonra óg, chun cinnte a dhéanamh de go bhfanann an scoil ar oscailt nó a leithéid. Tá ciste airgid ag na comhairlí contae chun tithe a cheannach.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

As I pointed out, the funding that is made available for us is generally for specific purposes, namely for homelessness and disability.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Tuigim sin.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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It is great to have the session today. I requested it and I am delighted we have had it. It is so important that a focus is put on the issue of géarchéim tithíochta na Gaeltachta. I hope we will do a report on foot of it. There is a need to progress it further because it is clear to me from listening here that nowhere near enough affordable housing will be delivered to Gaeltacht communities to ensure they actually have a future.

To the witnesses from Galway County Council, does the housing needs and demand assessment include adults who are living in the parental home in terms of their need for housing? Also, do they see the new Airbnb short-term let rules having any impact in terms of converting short-term lets into long-term homes?

Also, why is the Department of the Gaeltacht against the údarás having a primary role in housing delivery? Given where it is situated and its capacity, surely it could develop a long-term role to be delivering and ensuring housing in Gaeltacht areas.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

I will take the first question on the housing need demand assessment. It depends on whether those adults have a housing application made.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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So if they have not made a social housing application, they are not considered in terms of the need.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

They have to have made a social housing application, yes.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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We know there are thousands of adults living at home. Therefore, the actual housing need and demand assessment is not giving an accurate level of the need of affordable housing.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

How do we decipher whether somebody has a housing need if they do not make an application to us?

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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They cannot make an application for affordable housing. It suggests there is a need for an affordable housing assessment.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

No, we are talking about two different things. Affordable housing is a separate entity. Affordable housing is based on expressions of interest and people submit their interest in that. For social housing, there has to be a needs and demand assessment based on a housing application and people have to qualify with those criteria for it.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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I understand that but in terms of making assessments of how many affordable houses are needed, does the housing need and demand assessment not include any element at all of affordable housing assessment in terms of planning for housing delivery?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

The housing need demand assessment is social.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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So we do not have an assessment-----

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

No. For affordable housing, we do an expression of interest that people reply to. That gives us an indication of whether there is sufficient demand in a particular area. We actually go even more specific. When we have a development coming on stream, we do a specific survey for that development.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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I understand that but we do not do an overall planning in terms of how many affordable houses are needed for each area.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

We have it done for the entire country but it is very difficult because it is at a point of time that people will tell you they have an affordable demand. It is only when you have a specific scheme coming on stream that people can reply directly to that. You may have somebody in-----

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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I understand that. I just think there is a gap there in assessing the level of affordable housing we need to be building.

Is there someone from the local authorities who can answer the question on short-term lets?

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

On the short-term lets, there is a balancing act from our point of view. The short-term let legislation coming through will, in the immediate future, not go near the Gaeltacht and the island areas. It is only tackling towns of over 20,000 and none of the Gaeltacht areas will be covered by that. An awful lot of the short-term letting properties that are available in Gaeltacht areas are attached to somebody's primary residence. They are granny flats, chalets and other types of modular units that have been developed over time. An awful lot of that in the past would have been linked to summer schools, bean-an-tí type operations, etc. There are a number of planning enforcement files with Galway County Council, and I am sure with every other local authority, where people have planning permission for a property but are now short-term letting it, which was not a planning condition. It is against the planning conditions provided to them. There are a number of those that each local authority would be investigating on an ongoing basis.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Does Mr. Hanrahan not see any major delivery of homes back into the rental market through the Government's new initiatives around short-term lets because they are not going to apply?

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

Not immediately in the Gaeltacht areas but in the Galway City Council area, which does have a Gaeltacht, I can see a number of properties being returned to the market on that basis. There is a balancing act to be done in the Connemara Gaeltacht over the long term because the income those short-term lets provide, from an area that survives significantly throughout the year on tourism, is important. The balancing act has to consider the appropriateness of these short-term lets being turned into permanent accommodation. As I said, a lot of these units are sharing entrances with families. They are short-term lets that may be let for two and three months of the year, which supplement family income to support kids going to school, to college, etc.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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However, there are also permanent homes being let out on Airbnb as well.

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

A number of those permanent homes should be targeted; I agree with the Deputy. A number of those are being investigated and we are planning enforcement at the moment.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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A lot of this comes down to how we measure and acknowledge demand. Is léir go bhfuil éileamh nach beag i ngach ceantar Gaeltachta. Bhí píosa cainte ansin mar gheall ar Ghaeltacht na nDéise. Úsáideadh an frása “éileamh beag” agus thart faoi 12 teaghlach ag lorg tithe sóisialta. I gcomhthéacs ceantar bheag - dhá pharóiste faoin tuath - is éileamh cuíosach mór é sin, go háirithe nuair atá tú ag cur san áireamh gur éileamh é nach bhfuil líonta. Tá an unmet demand an-mhór sa phobal áirithe sin. Is ceann de na tuiscintí é sin a bhfuil orainn go léir a thógaint ar bord i ndiaidh an chruinnithe seo.

Returning to Gaeltacht na nDéise, it seems to me a tale of three sites - Maoil an Choirnigh, An Sean Phobal agus Baile na nGall - that sum up some of the failure by Government to address the Gaeltacht housing crisis. Each of them is different. I gcás Bhaile na nGall, bhí píosa talún i seilbh Údarás na Gaeltachta agus bhí an-chuid cainte ag dul siar blianta ar conas a bhféadfaí an suíomh sin a fhorbairt chun tithíocht inacmhainne a chur ar fail. Tháinig moltaí maithe ón bpobal thar na bliana. Fós féin, in ainneoin an méid atá déanta ag an údarás, agus molaim an dea-obair, ní tada déanta leis an bpíosa talún sin.

Maidir leis An Sean Phobal, is cuimhin liom nuair a bhí mé tofa mar chomhairleoir don chéad uair in 2019, go ndúradh liom ag an gcéad nó an dara chruinniú comhairle, “Conor, you will be delighted. We have submitted an application to the Department of housing for social houses in An Sean Phobal, and what is more, we have put it into the new fast-track application scheme.” Níl talún briste ó shin i leith - seacht bliain ó shin - agus níl aon dul chun cinn déanta.

I gcás Mhaoil an Choirnigh, molaim an méid atá ráite ag Comhairle Cathrach agus Contae Phort Láirge agus na pleananna atá ann. N'fheadar an mbeidh sé inbhuanaithe na serviced sites sin a chur ar fáil. Ón aiseolas atá á chloisteáil agam ó phríomhfheidhmeannaigh i gcomhairlí áitiúla suas agus síos na tíre, níl dóthain airgid istigh sa scéim sin agus ní dhéanann sé ciall airgeadais é sin a chur i gcrích. Is cúpla ceisteanna iad sin gur mhaith liom a chaitheamh amach. B’fhéidir go bhféadfainn cloisteáil ó Chomhairle Cathrach agus Contae Phort Láirge agus an t-údarás mar gheall ar na ceisteanna áirithe sin.

Mr. Seamus De Faoite:

Chun teacht ar ais faoi na fíricí sin, ar an gcéad dul síos, fíric amháin nár thug mé ná go raibh 50 tithe i census 2022 a raibh cíos orthu go príobháideach. Is uimhir mór é sin chomh maith. I dtaobh na dtrí suíomhanna difriúla, aontaím leis an Teachta maidir leis an Sean Phobal. Tá approval againn do 12 teach. É sin ráite, táimid ag féachaint ar 12 clann agus caithfimid féachaint chomh maith ar an mborradh agus ar fhás an tSean Phobail. B’fhearr linn go mbeadh meascán de two-beds agus three-beds ann. Táimid ag caint leis an Roinn faoi sin. Bímid ag caint an t-am ar fad leis an údarás faoi na rudaí in áiteanna difriúla, including an suíomh i mBaile na nGall. Tagann sé ar ais go dtí an pointe go bhfuil ár suíomh féin againn anois. Táimid ag féachaint ar an suíomh sin agus ar an éileamh atá againn. Is dóigh liom féin de bharr an size agus density ansin go mbeidh orainn é a bhriseadh suas. Táimid ag féachaint ar an masterplan a chur ar fáil. This will match the need for Gaeltacht na nDéise for the next number of years. It is that mixture of the social and the affordable. Going back to the point about the serviced sites, the one thing that Gaeltacht na nDéise has and the big change that has happened over the last number of years is the situation with Irish Water. A number of years ago there were big issues around drinking water and wastewater, and both of those issues are largely sorted now. What this site gives us is that opportunity. The issue around serviced sites nationally is that they have been slow to come about. It will come back to the actual building cost, when the applicant at the end of the day realises how the subsidy they are getting in relation to the site compares with the overall building costs. There is a high cost around building small numbers of houses and one-off houses in rural Ireland at this stage, but we are willing to work with all parties around that.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank everybody for their detailed answers. It is very helpful for us. I will make a comment and then ask two very specific questions in the time that I have. There are two objectives for most of us in this conversation. One is obviously to meet housing need in Gaeltacht communities in the same way as we need to meet housing need everywhere else and the second is in doing that to ensure we are allowing very important communities to thrive and to grow into the future which, therefore, has a separate set of considerations. I am strongly of the view that if the housing needs demand assessment, HNDA, was used properly, it would allow us to take a more plan-led approach to meeting social, affordable and private housing needs in Gaeltacht communities. We use the HNDA to deliver State-wide breakdown of social, affordable, private rental and private for purchase housing that translates down to local authority but the HNDA as a tool can be used at an LEA level and below that probably. Until we get to the stage where, both in our housing delivery plans and in our county development plans, for those seven counties that have Gaeltacht communities there is a specific HNDA forward-planning housing need, social and private over the lifetime of the housing plan or the development plan, everything is going to be reactive. I am saying that because for me that is the ultimate solution here. My worry is that this is not going to happen in the context of new housing delivery plans and therefore the next five years - we are almost halfway through the first of those - will not be too different from the last and we will not progress. I urge both the Department and local authorities to try to move to a situation where we are able to have that forward-planning, particularly for our Gaeltacht communities. That would then allow the local authorities to mobilise all of the different tools that are there - SHIP, CALF, the affordable housing fund, CPOs, serviced sites, etc. - to meet that need. That is the only way we are going to crack this properly. That is no disrespect to the hard work of everybody in the room; it is just to find a better way of doing it.

My two specific questions are as follows. A lot of people do not understand that when Mr. Mitchell talks about the open-market value, OMV, for Galway County Council's affordable housing schemes, he is not talking about the actual cost of the delivery of a unit in a prospective scheme but a market-value calculation of an equivalent private sector home. He mentioned the schemes in Oughterard and Claregalway. The scheme in Claregalway was successful but the scheme in Oughterard, so far, is not. Was the OMV higher or lower than the real development cost, that is, the cost to the local authority and the purchaser? Obviously that is an issue the Department is going to have to start looking at in terms of fixing this.

Regarding national planning objective 28 for rural one-off housing, obviously the NPO is very clear that somebody has to demonstrate economic or social need to live in a rural area. Is it the Department's clear understanding that somebody who is an Irish-language speaker and who works in the Gaeltacht would satisfy a social need to live in that area in the same way as a farmer would satisfy the economic need? Is that Ms Mulhern's clear understanding and is that likely to be reflected in the planning policy statement? I go to Mr. Mitchell first on the OMV and then to Ms Mulhern on the other questions.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

Yes. It is at a point in time. Claregalway would have had-----

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I am just asking about those two specific schemes.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

Absolutely. I understand. Oughterard is working now but at the point where we would have looked at some of the outlying areas-----

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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My question is not so much about that. People in this room often think OMV means the actual cost of delivery of the unit, but it does not.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

No, it is the estate agent’s valuation, or whatever the valuation is when you are selling a house.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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So, in those two schemes, was the OMV more or less than the actual cost of delivery?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

No, it was not, not generally, but it can be. It was not in the specific cases.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Was it similar to the actual cost of delivery?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

We were not able to produce the margin of 15%, which is what is required to qualify for affordable housing-----

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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From the cost of delivery or from the OMV?

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

It is 15% below the OMV-----

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I know that, but-----

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

When we added in the cost of delivery to a person, there was not a saving of 15%

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I am talking about the cost of delivery of the unit rather than the OMV sale price.

Mr. Damien Mitchell:

The cost of delivery was not more than the sale price, but it was not sufficiently different for there to be a 15% margin. Since there has been an increase in the OMV, that 15% is now being met. Also, the Department has been helpful in expanding the subsidy scheme.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Could Ms Mulhern respond very quickly on national policy objective, NPO, 28?

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

There is absolutely a need to examine the rural housing national planning statement and the one for the Gaeltacht areas because of the interaction with local need. This is something colleagues in the local authorities have talked about today.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I am pressed for time. Does the Department’s interpretation of demonstrating social need include a linguistic characteristic for somebody wishing to live in the area?

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

That is all being examined at the moment. The NPO is not specific. The detail will be provided in the national planning statement.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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It is not yet decided but under consideration for the national planning policy statement.

Ms Claragh Mulhern:

Absolutely.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank our guests.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the guests. I apologise for not being here for their opening statements. I was at a meeting of the justice committee. I have read their submissions, however.

Has Galway County Council the planning numbers for Gaeltacht delivery to hand? Would the representatives be in a position to share them with us?

The second question is for the Department, which talks about inclusion and diversity. I wear a disability hat at all times, so I want to know whether local authorities responsible for Gaeltacht areas, whether in Waterford, Galway or elsewhere around the country, can access adequate funding to develop residential housing to support people in their local communities?

Galway County Council, along with Ability West and Brothers of Charity, has developed a really good project called Living my Life. It is the first of its kind in the country. Is the council working with the two stakeholders to deliver out west?

I thank Deputy Ó Broin for having just now provided me with numbers, but I will still let the director of services answer.

Mr. Liam Hanrahan:

I thank Senator Rabbitte. Galway County Council’s planning permission grant rate – this applies throughout the county but it is very clear in the Connemara and Baile Chláir Gaeltacht areas – is 91%. Therefore, for 91% of planning applications made to Galway County Council, permission is granted. When we hear it said that people cannot build houses, it should be noted only 9% of planning applications do not make it through the system. Bearing in mind the circumstances in Connemara and the SACs and the amount of work required to make a good planning application, I believe 91% is a significant grant rate. The view that we are not granting planning permissions, which we have heard a few times today, is inaccurate.

We are working very closely with the disability groups the Senator mentioned. A number of one-off houses have been purchased in the Gaeltacht areas and, under the old model of multiple occupancy by people with disabilities, properties have been converted into smaller, independent living units. The one in Carna was a long time coming. Others are planned throughout the various areas. In a number of our estates, houses are being built according to the specific requirements in the housing disability action plan.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Mr. Hanrahan. I will let the Department answer on funding local authorities to do such work when it comes to community residential homes.

I have a really good story, which will take no more than 30 seconds. When the Covid pandemic occurred, I met a young man from the Inis Mór Gaeltacht at the Brothers of Charity premises. He used to come to the mainland on the ferry, stay for three days and go home on a Thursday evening. When I asked him about his housing need, he said he really wanted to live at home, which was, of course, on the island. It is a question of the funding aspect.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

There are funding schemes available, for sure, and, as my colleagues have already stated, there is a policy. It is a matter for the local authorities to identify the needs, and then there are various schemes for various types of disability needs. The policy is conscious of the demographics and the fact that the ageing population might also drive need in terms of the elderly. All of the schemes-----

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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As in people’s parents being elderly?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

Yes, but I am also referring to an increase in the average age of the population, meaning people’s housing needs having to change. These are things we are planning for. Disability needs in terms of access are provided for in schemes.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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Would that not come under universal design policies from a departmental point of view, in that if we had universal design in policy from the start it would meet people’s needs no matter their age profile and support them over time?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

I am not over the detail of that.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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Mr. Gallagher has the detail on universal design.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher:

We have different types of building standards for social houses. The Senator is suggesting house design that is future proofed.

Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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Yes, exactly.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Dr. Mac Cormaic wanted to contribute.

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

Regarding the Deputy’s question, an bhfreagróidh mé í?

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The witness has 30 seconds.

Dr. Aodhán Mac Cormaic:

Ceistíodh an fáth a bhfuil muid in aghaidh príomhról a thabhairt don údarás maidir le tithíocht. Níl aon fhianaise feicthe againn go ndéanfadh an t-údarás jab níos fearr ná na húdaráis áitiúla atá ann cheana féin ag déileáil le cúrsaí tithíochta sa Ghaeltacht. Dá ndéanfaí é seo, bheadh gá le reachtaíocht a leasú. Is furasta reachtaíocht a leasú ach bheadh córas nua le cur ar bun san údarás. Bheadh daoine le fostú, oiliúint le cur orthu agus foirgneamh le fáil. Bheadh costas mór i gceist. Ag deireadh an lae, cad a bheifí ag fáil as sin seachas eagraíocht eile ag plé le pleanáil nuair atá na húdaráis áitiúla lán in ann an cúram sin a ghlacadh orthu féin?

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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There would be nothing in the existing legislative framework preventing údarás from partnering with an AHB or local authority to have mixed-use developments in some of the sites. It would preserve primary responsibility in terms of employment given that even within rural settings some level of compact growth is required. Is it the case that none of that is prescribed currently and that it could be explored?

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We are straying over time.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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If Mr. Ó Síocháin has a brief comment, it would be important to hear it.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I will allow 30 seconds.

Mr. Tomás Ó Síocháin:

Freagraíonn sé seo an cheist a bhí ag an Teachta McGuinness. Mar shampla, i mBaile na nGall, mar shampla, thíos i Rinn Ó gCuanach, as seo go ceann roinnt seachtainí, beimid ag cur isteach le haghaidh cead pleanála d’ionad fiontraíochta. Táimid fós oscailte agus ag plé leis an údarás áitiúla chun cuid den talamh sin a úsáid. Cinnte dearfa, táimid oscailte chuige sin. Feictear dúinn nach bhfuil aon bhac orainn é sin a dhéanamh más féidir linn teacht ar an airgead ó áiteanna éagsúla chuige sin.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The money was not got. The people who can provide it are behind Mr. Ó Síocháin, whose comment was nicely made at the end. That is the way to do it.

I thank all the representatives from the various organisations who attended today. We had a good discussion.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We will now resume our discussion of the housing crisis in the Gaeltacht. I welcome representatives from BÁNÚ and Conradh na Gaeilge. From BÁNÚ, we are joined by Mr. Donncha Ó hÉallaithe and Mr. Dónal Ó Cnáimhsigh. From Conradh na Gaeilge, we are joined by Ms Eibhlín Ní Shlatarra, Mr. John Prendergast and Dr. Ann Nolan.

Before we start, I wish to explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practice of the Houses as regards references witnesses may make to other persons in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected pursuant to both the Constitution and statute by absolute privilege. Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if witnesses' statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

The opening statements have been circulated to members. We also have live translation provided in our headsets for members and witnesses who wish to give their contributions through the Irish language. Is it agreed that we publish the opening statements on the committee website? Agreed. We will take the opening statements as read, which will give the opportunity for more questions and answers to members.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I have an alternative suggestion. There is a lot of detail and these folks have put a lot of effort into their submissions. Perhaps we could give them a brief opportunity at the start to give a summary of the submissions. We can then get into the detail.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed?

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I am just conscious that people make a big effort with their submissions and then do not get the opportunity to put them on the record.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We made the decision that we would not do that.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I am suggesting an exception in this case.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Normally I ask witnesses to condense their opening statements into a slot of one minute or one minute and a half, if they can. We will start with Conradh na Gaeilge.

Ms Eibhlín Ní Shlatarra:

Rugadh agus tógadh mé i nGaeltacht Chorca Dhuibhne i gCiarraí thiar. Chaitheas m’óige ar fad tumtha san oidhreacht, sa cheol agus sa chultúr a bhain leis an áit. Ní raibh focal Béarla agam go dtí go rabhas geall le seacht mbliana d’aois agus chaitheas mo laethanta scoile ag éisteacht le scéalta béaloidis, ag foghlaim amhrán ar an sean-nós agus ag seinm ceol traidisiúnta. Is é seo, dar liom, ceann de na rudaí is tábhachtaí mar gheall ar bheith i do chónaí sa Ghaeltacht: an ceangal a bhíonn agat ó aois óg leis an áit, an oidhreacht, an cultúr agus an teanga.

Le blianta anuas braithim go bhfuil bagairt ann go gcaillfimid an ceangal seo atá go domhain sa dúchas ag muintir na Gaeltachta. Baineann fadhbanna tithíochta le níos mó ná díreach na tithe iad féin; tá ár dtearmann teanga agus ár n-oidhreacht i mbaol. Is iad ár n-oidhreacht agus ár dteanga atá mar sholas treoraithe againn ar chúrsaí an tsaoil agus ar ár bhféinthuiscint,, agus cuireann sé imní an domhan orm don ghlúin atá le teacht go gcaillfear an nasc sin lena dteanga agus lena n-áit dúchais.

Bhog mise abhaile go Corca Dhuibhne tar éis na hollscoile agus suim agam a bheith ag obair leis an teanga i measc an phobail. Bhí déistin orm a fháil amach nach raibh teach, árasán nó fiú seomra le fáil ar cíos in aon áit ar an leithinis. Ní raibh aon rogha agam ach bogadh ar ais isteach le mo thuismitheoirí, scéal atá an-choitianta i measc daoine óga ar fud na tíre faoi láthair. Chaitheas bliain iomlán ar shuíomhanna tithíochta ag lorg áit dom féin. Arís agus arís, bhí líon na dteach agus na n-árasán ag teacht suas mar náid ar na suíomhanna tithíochta agus tá sé mar sin fós inniu.

Ach, dá mbeinn mar thurasóir ag lorg áit le fanacht ar an dúiche, ní baol ná go mbeadh 333 áit ar fáil ar Airbnb i gCorca Dhuibhne do thurasóirí, gan trácht ar na céadta tithe saoire atá fágtha tréigthe folamh don chuid is mó den bhliain. I mo bhaile beag féin, Baile an Reannaigh, tá 35 teach ar fáil ar an mbaile. Don 35 teach sin, tá naoi dteach ina bhfuil daoine ina gcónaí go lánaimseartha. Tithe saoire folmha atá sna 26 teach eile agus níl anseo ach sampla do bhaile fearainn beag amháin.

Is furasta gan mórán dóchais a bheith agat don todhchaí mar dhuine óg atá ag iarraidh bogadh abhaile nuair a chuimhníonn tú ar an mbráca ar fad a bhaineann le tithe a thógáil sa Ghaeltacht agus na dlíthe pleanála a chuireann bac le daoine tithe a thógáil ar a dtalamh féin nó gar dá mhuintir agus dá pobal. Le cúpla bliain anuas tá scéal i ndiaidh scéil cloiste agam faoi chlanna óga ach go háirithe atá ag iarraidh tithe a thógáil sa cheantar agus dlíthe pleanála míréasúnta caite ina dtreo.

Tá géarghá cead pleanála a éascú do mhuintir na Gaeltachta agus iad ag iarraidh maireachtáil ina gceantar dúchais, áit a mbeadh an Ghaelainn á labhairt acu leis na glúine a chuaigh rompu agus a thiocfaidh ina ndiaidh. Bíonn brú air seo ar chúrsaí Gaelainne trí chéile sa tír. Cuirim i gcás an titim ollmhór atá tagtha ar spásanna do na coláistí samhraidh Gaelainne. Tá an earnáil san i mbaol chomh maith, agus liostaí feithimh ollmhóra ann, agus an turasóireacht teanga chun na háite thíos leis, chomh maith le teacht daoine eile in Éirinn ar shlite chun an Ghaelainn a fhoghlaim, a úsáid agus a labhairt.

Dá mbeadh na córais séarachais sna háiteanna seo uasghrádaithe mar thosaíocht, ní bheadh an oiread céanna brú ann tithe a thógáil, daoine a choimeád sa Ghaeltacht agus scoláirí a thógáil isteach fiú. Mar oifigeach pleanála teanga, chím go laethúil na himpleachtaí atá ag an ngéarchéim tithíochta ar an bpróiseas pleanála teanga. Ní ann don phróiseas agus ní fiú é má tá daoine óga glanta amach as na Gaeltachtaí ag an ngéarchéim seo. Caithfear teacht ar réiteach go luath don ngéarchéim tithíochta sa Ghaeltacht nó caillfimid spiorad, anam agus oidhreacht na nGaeltachtaí go deo.

Mr. Dónall Ó Cnáimshí:

Is as Gaoth Dobhair mé agus thaisteal mé anseo tráthnóna as Gaoth Dobhair. Tá mé fostaithe mar oifigeach pleanála teanga i nGaoth Dobhair le seacht mbliana go leath. Nuair a cuireadh an próiseas pleanála teanga ar bun le hAcht na Gaeltachta, 2012, dúirt an tAire Stáit ag an am sin, Donnchadh Mac Fhionnlaoich, gurb é seo an seans deireanach don Ghaeltacht mar a bhí. Dúirt sé as seo amach gur chur chuige nua a bheadh ann agus go mbeadh an Stát ag obair lámh ar lámh leis na pobail Ghaeltachta chun an Ghaeltacht a thabhairt shlán. Tá mise fostaithe ag Comharchumann Forbartha Ghaoth Dobhair agus tá 15 againn mar choiste pleanála teanga. Tá gach duine acu sin ionadaíoch ar choistí eile mar sin tá achan cheangal againn leis an cheantar. Le seacht mbliana anuas táimid ag obair go crua ag feidhmiú plean teanga. Ach sna cruinnithe atá againn le b’fhéidir trí bliana anuas is é an ghéarchéim tithíochta an rud is mó atáimid ag plé. Daoine óga, páistí na mball féin, atá ag imeacht as an cheantar. Tá nach mór gach uile dhuine ar an choiste sin, seachas duine amháin, thar dhá scór bliain d’aois agus chíonn siad an deacracht atá ag a gclanna cur fúthu sa cheantar sin. Tá siad ar an ollscoil, tá siad ag obair i mBaile Átha Cliath b’fhéidir mar mhúinteoirí scoile, ach tá siad ina gcónaí mar a bheadh mic léinn ann, ceathrar nó cúigear i dteach, gan aon seans acu bogadh abhaile mar nach bhfuil teacht orthu ar aon tithíocht ansin. Ní fheiceann siad aon todhchaí daoibh féin sa Ghaeltacht agus tá siad ag imeacht thar lear bliain i ndiaidh bliana. Tá an córas oideachais lárnach chomh maith sa phróiseas pleanála teanga. Tá ocht mbunscoil agus iar-bhunscoil amháin i mo limistéar pleanála teanga. Bím ag caint leis na múinteoirí go laethúil agus feiceann siad anois ó rang a ceathrar ar aghaidh go bhfuil titim shuntasach bliain i ndiaidh bliana ar líon na bpáistí nó na leanaí atá ar an scoil. Ceann de na cúiseanna leis sin ná an easpa daoine óga atá ag cur fúthu sa cheantar. Tá dhá scoil anois sa cheantar agus tá siad i mbaol dúnadh mar gheall, i gcás ceann amháin acu, nár tháinig aon pháiste amháin isteach go dtí an scoil i mbliana.

Mar a luaigh Eibhlín Ní Shlatarra ansin, tá an tithíocht lárnach don phróiseas pleanála teanga. Mura bhfuilimid ábalta na daoine óga a choinneáil sa cheantar leis na pobail seo a choinneáil beo, cén mhaith dúinn a bheith ag scríobh pleananna nó ag beartú rudaí leis an nGaeilge a neartú sna ceantair sin? Tá mé cinnte go raibh go leor leithscéalta ag na hionadaithe ó Roinn na Gaeltachta agus comhaltaí an údaráis a bhí os comhar an choiste anseo inniu ar cén fáth nach dtig leo scéimeanna tithíochta a fhorbairt sna ceantair Ghaeltachta. Bhí mé féin agus John Prendergast i Leifear i gContae Dhún na nGall inné agus chasamar leis na comhairlí contae ansin. Bhí plé againn faoi choinníoll teanga do na scéimeanna tithíochta do na comhairlí contae sna Gaeltachtaí. Tá 85% de choinníoll teanga curtha ar na tithe i gContae Dhún na nGall. Bhí an plé ar fad fá dtaobh de conas a dtig leo an coinníoll seo a chur i bhfeidhm go cothrom. Ach an rud a tháinig trasna uathu ná gur mhaith leis na comhairlí contae sin treoir agus tacaíocht a fháil ón Roinn tithíochta. Deir siad go bhfuil easpa treoir agus ceannasaíocht á léiriú ag an Roinn tithíochta do na comhairlí contae. Bhí siad ag súil go mór leis na treoirlínte pleanála tithíochta a bhí le teacht, a gealladh daoibh faoin iarAire, an Teachta O’Broin, nár tháinig. Anois, tá an tAire, an Teachta Browne, ag rá go mbeidh ráiteas déanta an bhliain seo chugainn. Tá easpa práinn á léiriú ag an Rialtas i dtaca leis an cheist seo. Sílim féin agus mo choiste gurb é seo an cheist is tábhachtaí dúinn anois agus muid ag beartú plean nua teanga a dhréachtú.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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A vote has been called in the Dáil. I propose that we suspend until after the vote. We will return immediately after.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses for both introductory statements. We have our speaking rota. We will stick with five minutes, as per the previous session.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an gcoiste as an deis a bheith anseo. Cuirim fáilte roimh na cuairteoirí ar fad. Luaigh na finnéithe ó na húdaráis áitiúla a bhí os comhair an choiste seo níos luaithe go raibh deis le píosa anois aighneacht a dhéanamh ar phleananna forbartha contae. Bhí an ceann i gContae na Gaillimhe oscailte ar feadh píosa. Dar liom, creidim go raibh ceann oscailte i ngach contae. An raibh deis ag eagraíochtaí na bhfinnéithe aighneachtaí a dhéanamh ar na pleananna sin? Ar ghlac siad an deis sin?

Mr. Dónall Ó Cnáimshí:

Ghlac.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Go maith. Ar bhfuair siad aon fhreagra ó na haighneachtaí sin?

Mr. Dónall Ó Cnáimshí:

Chuireamar aighneacht isteach i dtaca leis an choinníoll teanga do na scéimeanna tithe sóisialta, agus glacadh leis. Tá an coinníoll teanga sin ag baint le 85% de na tithe sin. Táimid anois ag iarraidh oibriú amach an dóigh a n-oibreoidh sé seo. Sa phlean forbartha, tá an píosa faoin Ghaeltacht an-tanaí de bharr go raibh na comhairleoirí ag súil go mbeadh na treoirlínte ag teacht ón Roinn mar pháirt den phlean contae, ach níor tháinig na treoirlínte sin. Níl mórán sa phlean forbartha i dtaca leis an Ghaeltacht ar chor ar bith.

Mr. Donncha Ó hÉallaithe:

I gcás na Gaillimhe, má táimid ag caint ar varation 1, mar a thugtar air, a chuaigh tríd le gairid, dúradh linn go mbaineann sé sin le zoning a dhéanamh ar níos mó talaimh le haghaidh tithíochta. Maidir leis sin, bhí aighneacht chuimsitheach déanta ag Údarás na Gaeltachta a bhí thar barr ar fad. Leis an fhírinne a insint, áfach, níor thug bainistíocht an chontae freagra ceart air sin. D’ardaíomar é sin leis na comhairleoirí agus shocraigh an chomhairle contae go mbeadh cruinniú speisialta ag comhairleoirí Chonamara le hÚdarás na Gaeltachta leis an aighneacht sin a phlé. Bhí an aighneacht chuimsitheach. Dhéileáil sí leis na fadhbanna pleanála agus tithíochta agus mar sin de. Tá súil againn go socróidh Comhairle Chontae na Gaillimhe cruinniú le hÚdarás na Gaeltachta leis an aighneacht áirithe sin a phlé agus chun féachaint ar chuid de na moltaí atá déanta ag Údarás na Gaeltachta a chur isteach sa chéad phlean forbartha eile.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Maidir leis an gceann i gContae na Gaillimhe, dúirt na finnéithe níos luaithe go ndearnadh athrú ar na pleananna sa Spidéal, agus i mBearna agus Maigh Cuilinn.

Tá níos mó talún zónáilte acu anois mar thalamh le haghaidh tithíochta. Tá siad féin ag rá linn go mb'fhéidir go mbeidh deis acu cuid den talamh sin a cheannach. Is léir gur deis mhaith í sin le cur leis an méid tithíochta atá ar fáil sa Ghaeltacht i gContae na Gaillimhe ar aon chaoi.

Mr. Donncha Ó hÉallaithe:

Tá sé sin fíor. Má bhreathnaíonn an Teachta ar an gceantar Gaeltachta oifigiúil seachas an ceantar Gaeltachta ina bhfuil Gaeilge á labhairt, táimid ag caint i gcónaí ar an gceantar Gaeltachta ina bhfuil Gaeilge á labhairt i gcónaí mar theanga phobail. Má bhreathnaíonn an Teachta ar na pleananna atá ag Comhairle Chontae na Gaillimhe, tá sé ag caint ar cheantair nach bhfuil an Ghaeilge in úsáid mar theanga phobail in aon bhealach suntasach. Mar shampla, i gcás Mhaigh Cuilinn, cé go bhfuil sé sa Ghaeltacht, níl aon scolaíocht trí Ghaeilge ar fáil do pháistí ann. Bheadh ar dhuine dul amach as Maigh Cuilinn cúpla míle leis é sin a fháil. Nuair atáimid ag caint ar an gceist seo, táimid ag caint ar an nGaeilge a shlánú mar theanga phobail. Táimid ag caint ar dhaoine a bhfuil Gaeilge acu a choinneáil sna ceantair ina bhfuil Gaeilge á labhairt agus go mbeadh an critical mass ag na ceantair sin ionas go leanfaidh an teanga ar aghaidh ó ghlúin go glúin mar theanga orgánach. Sin an chiall atá le Gaeltacht.

An chiall atá le Gaeltacht ná taobh istigh de theorainneacha a tarraingíodh in 1956, ach an áit a bhfuil an Ghaeilge á húsáid go nádúrtha, tugtha anuas ó ghlúin go glúin trí thuismitheoirí ag labhairt Gaeilge sa bhaile agus a dhóthain de sin a bheith ag tarlú le go bhfuil an Ghaeilge nádúrtha sa cheantar. Sin an rud atá i mbaol. An rud a bhfuilimid ag caint air i gcónaí ná cén chaoi ar féidir linn é a dhéanamh níos éasca do dhaoine sna ceantair sin cead pleanála agus teach a fháil agus mar sin de.

Tá rud beag amháin eile le rá agam. Tá fadhb an-mhór againn i gContae na Gaillimhe mar gheall ar nach bhfuil mórán áiteanna aitheanta ag plean forbartha na Gaillimhe mar shráidbhailte nó mar hubs a d'fhéadfaí a fhorbairt. San áit a bhfuilim i mo chónaí, tá an scoil náisiúnta, bunscoil. In aice liom tá trí phub. Is breá iad agus tá siad oscailte fós. Tá Tesco, siopaí, séipéal agus naíonra mór. Tá na rudaí seo uilig ann, ach níl aon aitheantas ag an gceantar sin gur ceantar é inar ceart tithíocht a dhéanamh ann. Caithfimid déileáil leis sin mar tá sé sin ag cur bac ar chuid de na scéimeanna atá ag an Roinn tithíochta a úsáid.

John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Thug an chomhairle contae na figiúirí seo dúinn níos luaithe chomh maith ar iarratais phleanála anuraidh sa Ghaeltacht. Anois, tá siad ag caint faoin nGaeltacht. Níl an teorainn chéanna ag an gcomhairle is atá ag Donncha Ó hÉallaithe agus é ag caint. Dúradh go raibh 366 iarratas pleanála agus gur ceadaíodh 324 acu. Níor dhiúltaigh an chomhairle ach 52. Bíonn na figiúirí ag an gcomhairle mar sin. Cuireann sé sin athrú ar an scéal dúinn.

Mr. Donncha Ó hÉallaithe:

Tá sé sin ceart go leor go dtí go dtagtar go dtí cás an duine aonair. Mar shampla, le gairid, diúltaíodh bean óg atá ag obair sa cheantar atá ag iarraidh socrú síos le fear eile as an nGaeltacht. Bhí an t-athair sásta talamh a chur ar fáil di. Ní raibh fadhb ar bith leis an suíomh. Scrúdaigh mé an comhad. Ní fhaca mé aon fhadhb leis an suíomh ach dúirt an chomhairle nach raibh aon riachtanas tithíochta aici. Seo bean atá ina 30idí ag iarraidh socrú síos agus níl aon riachtanas tithíochta aici. Cén fáth? Dúradh go raibh cónaí uirthi i nGaillimh. Is aisteach an meon é sin ag an gcomhairle contae mar níl sé ag tabhairt chúrsaí teanga isteach san áireamh ar chor ar bith.

Má tá daoine as an nGaeltacht atá ag iarraidh socrú síos, b'fhéidir go bhfuil cónaí orthu faoi láthair taobh amuigh den Ghaeltacht agus go bhfuil siad ag iarraidh bogadh ar ais go dtí an Ghaeltacht, ba cheart go mbeadh na polasaithe pleanála ag an gcomhairle contae ag tacú leis sin seachas ag cur bac ar sin. Sin an rud. Sin an meon ar bhealach a bhíonn go minic ag an gcomhairle contae. Ní thógtar cúrsaí teanga san áireamh nuair atáthar ag déanamh breithiúnas faoi chásanna mar sin. Ceann de na rudaí a dteastódh go ndéanfaí athrú air ná céard a chiallaíonn riachtanas tithíochta. Tá mé i bhfabhar riachtanas tithíochta a bheith ag teastáil, ach caithfear a aithint má tá duine éigin le Gaeilge ag iarraidh bogadh ar ais agus cur fúthu sa Ghaeltacht, socrú síos, clann a thógáil ann agus a bheith i dtimpeallacht Gaeilge, áit a mbeadh an tacaíocht le fáil acu chun clann a thógáil trí Ghaeilge, ba cheart go bhfeicfeadh an chomhairle contae gur cás é sin ina bhfuil riachtanas tithíochta.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses not only for their submissions but also for their ongoing campaigning work about this important issue to us in the committee. The questions I have relate to the key changes that the witnesses would like to see a committee like this advocate for, so that the next five to ten years are different from the last five to ten. In that sense, I am going to be asking the witnesses to put on the record very specific proposals, partly because there is an opportunity, as Deputy Hearne proposed in this meeting earlier, to do a report, a mini report or a letter to the Minister setting out some of those changes.

Before I bring the witnesses in, I will highlight three crucial things that are about to happen. First, our local authorities are currently in the process of negotiating with the Department their housing delivery plans from now until 2030. It is absolutely crucial that there is some recognition of social, affordable and private housing need in Gaeltacht communities in those plans to drive the delivery. The witnesses may not have heard that the Department gave us an update on two of the three delayed planning guidelines. The rural planning guidelines will be published at the end of this year.

Second, the Gaeltacht planning guidelines will be published at the end of next year. It did not give us an update on the islands planning guidelines. All three are inter-related.

Third, soon we will be moving into ten-year development plans. We need to ensure the content of those plans, precisely for the reasons outlined in respect of County Galway, are different from what we had before. My key question to Conradh na Gaeilge and BÁNÚ is this: what do we need, as a committee, to advocate for in terms of key policies changes to inform those three plans? The key resolution to the particular issue Mr. Ó hÉallaithe was dealing with was that if we have it in the national planning policy statement on rural housing that linguistic connection is accepted as a social need, that will solve the problem overnight. When we put that to the Department, it said it is one of the matters under consideration. The Department has not settled on that. I am keen to hear from both organisations on those granular suggestions.

Mr. John Prendergast:

Tiocfaidh mé isteach ar sin. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta. An chéad rud ná an ráiteas náisiúnta pleanála don Ghaeltacht a bheith foilsithe sar i bhfad. Níl mé ag caint ar thús na bliana seo chugainn. Táimid ag fanacht ar seo le cúig bliana. San fholús sin, ní gá dom é a rá le baill an choiste ach tá a fhios acu go bhfuil oiread fadhbanna agus deacrachtaí, cásanna cúirte agus míthreoir tugtha do na comhairlí. Mar sin, tá gá a bheith láidir agus an ráiteas a bheith foilsithe sna seachtainí romhainn, sula mbeidh briseadh na Dála ann agus gach aon rud, mar tá an éiginnteacht ag cruthú deacrachtaí fud fad na tíre. Ní féidir leis an bpobal teanga fanacht níos faide ná sin. Ba cheart go mbeadh straitéis daonra agus tithíochta foilsithe do gach aon cheantar Gaeltachta chomh maith. Is iad seo na héilimh atá ag Tinteán. Bheadh sé sin ag féachaint ar gach limistéar pleanála teanga Gaeltachta le spriocanna soiléire intomhaiste le fáil amach cad é an líon tithe a bheadh ag teastáil i ngach aon áit agus cad é an líon daonra a bheadh ag teastáil chun go mbeadh an áit fós ina Ghaeltacht. Bheimis ag éileamh chomh maith go mbronnfar cumhachtaí tithíochta ar Údarás na Gaeltachta. D'fhéadfaí na cumhachtaí sin a thabhairt isteach le Bille Údarás na Gaeltachta (Leasú), 2024, atá ag imeacht tríd Tithe an Oireachtais faoi láthair. Dúirt an tAire, an Teachta Calleary, inné ar "Adhmhaidin" go bhfuil súil aige go mbeadh na leasuithe sin foilsithe sna míonna rómhainn. Mar sin, ba bhreá linn go mbeadh leasú istigh ansin chun go mbeadh cumhachtaí dubh agus bán tugtha d'Údarás na Gaeltachta; agus ní hamháin cumhachtaí, ach go mbeadh infheistíocht agus airgead tugtha don údarás ionas go mbeadh rannóg tithíochta acu le bheith ag éascú na gceisteanna seo.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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The spokesperson for the Department of the Gaeltacht indicated very clearly in the earlier session that this is not what the Minister intends to do with the údarás. He was saying very clearly to us that their view was the local authorities and AHBs are best placed to do that, and they were not going to go down that route. I know Mr. Prendergast did not hear that, but maybe he would like to respond. If that is the Department's position, does that concern him?

Mr. John Prendergast:

It does, faoi mar a bhaineann sé leis an údarás. Tá sé ag obair sa ghort seo. Tá sé an-mhór ag féachaint ar chur chun cinn cultúrtha, sóisialta agus eacnamaíochta na Gaeltachta.

Mura bhfuil an tithíocht mar chuid de sin, tá easnamh sna hiarrachtaí eile. Tá an t-údarás an-mhór, suite i gceantair Ghaeltachta agus eolas teangeolaíoch aige nach mbeadh ag údaráis áitiúla ná ag comhlachtaí Stáit eile ar nós Uisce Éireann. Mar sin, caithfidh go mbeadh údarás nó áisíneacht Stáit ann chun a bheith ag féachaint ar na ceisteanna seo. Bheinn ag moladh go mór do Roinn na Gaeltachta agus don Roinn tithíochta a bheith ag cuimhneamh ar sin chomh maith, ach go háirithe d'Údarás na Gaeltachta.

An ceathrú moladh a bhí ag Tinteán chomh maith ná scéim na dtithe Gaeltachta a thabhairt ar ais. D'fhéadfadh sé sin titim faoi scáth Roinn na tithíochta dá mba mhaith léi é. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil Roinn na Gaeltachta tar éis a rá nach bhfuil sé d'acmhainn nó nach bhfuil sí chun a bheith i mbun aon scéim á riaradh dá leithéid ach tá an-chuid scéimeanna den saghas sin á rith agus á riar faoi láthair ag an Roinn tithíochta. Mar sin, bheadh sé sin go breá.

Is maith liom an moladh mar gheall ar an riachtanas teanga agus an riachtanas áitiúil, an nasc áitiúil. Bhí sé sin sa chúrsaíocht cúpla bliain ó shin. Is moladh an-mhaith é. Chomh maith céanna, faoi mar a bhaineann sé, baineann sé le comhchoiste eile agus an Roinn fiontar agus turasóireachta, chomh maith leis an Aire, an Teachta Peter Burke. Ní aon díobháil é a rá chomh maith gur cóir go mbeadh rialú ceart déanta faoin mBille um chíos gearrthéarmach agus turasóireachta (leasú), 2025. Tá go leor taighde déanta ag an Dr. Nolan ar pholasaí na Breataine Bige mar gheall ar thithíocht agus a leithéid, ach ba cheart go mbeadh rialú á dhéanamh ar an chóiríocht ar chíos gearrthéarmach, ar nós Airbnb agus booking.com, atá ag réabadh na Gaeltachta faoi láthair. Feicfimid an ráta fáis d'Airbnb. Tá sé dhá oiread níos mó mar thithe iomlán den stoc tithíochta ó 2019 go 2025. Tá an ráta fáis imithe suas go dtí 88% agus san iarGhaeltacht taobh amuigh de na ceantair Ghaeltachta tá sé ag 48%. Mar sin, is léir go bhfuil díobháil dhíréireach domhain á déanamh ag an gceist seo ar na ceantair Ghaeltachta. Mar sin, sin cúig nó sé mholadh praiticiúla nó réiteach ag teacht chun tosaigh mar a fheiceann Tinteán agus Conradh na Gaeilge é.

Mr. Donncha Ó hÉallaithe:

One specific proposal I would make that would make a difference fairly soon is that the Department of housing scheme, ready to build or croí cónaithe, seems ideal for rural Gaeltacht areas, partly because the tradition has been in the Gaeltacht since 1929 when the Gaeltacht grants were instituted by the Free State Government. The tradition has been for people, even people on low incomes, to build their own houses, probably on their own land or family land. That is a tradition that should be continued. That is deep in the psyche of people. It is part of their culture that they build their own house. The ready to build scheme would be ideal for this because it would provide serviced sites for people to buy at a good price under the scheme, where they can be sold for up to €30,000 less than the cost of providing the site, with services. People would then be able to go ahead and build their own houses. It would create small clusters of houses in rural areas. At the moment, that cannot be used because it is confined to county councils.

We have spoken to Galway County Council about this. It says it is not interested in that scheme because, first, it wants a density of houses on any land it has and, second, there has to be a designated village. In some Gaeltacht areas, there are very few designated villages, partly for historical reasons. No landlords built nice villages every few miles along the road as they did in counties Tipperary, Cork or Kilkenny. For example, 4,000 people live in the area between Spiddal and Carraroe. There are lots of services. There is a television station and three industrial estates, and even an airport, in the area but still there is no recognition of the need to see it as a place where houses should be built. We are suggesting that Údarás na Gaeltachta be recognised as an agency which could use that scheme through the Department of housing, in conjunction with the county council. The idea is that the údarás would be the driver of the scheme. It would provide the land and services that would be needed on that land, as it does for industrial estates. It has the skills and skill base to do that.

I was recently in Lisdoonvarna at the launch of a scheme in County Clare. Clare County Council seems to be embracing this ready to build scheme. I was talking to Deputy Cooney during the break. In the Lisdoonvarna example, they will be selling sites to people for €35,000 with all the services needed. Where I am living, you would not get a look at a site for €60,000. If you go closer to Spiddal village, for example, it would probably be €100,000. This is an ideal scheme that I think people would take up very easily.

Deputy McGuinness knows about the land that Údarás na Gaeltachta has in Waterford. I was down there looking at it last summer. It is an ideal scheme. Údarás owns it. There are sewerage facilities passing by the particular field. It is very close to the GAA field. It is very close to services. Waterford County Council has been approached about this, but it is not interested. In that situation, the Department should allow Údarás na Gaeltachta to be the driver of the scheme and apply and get permission to develop sites like that. The údarás has such sites, which will not be used for industrial expansion any more because that period is over, all over the Gaeltacht. There is an idea that we are going to have industrial estates all over the Gaeltacht. There are a good few industrial estates at the moment, but we are not going to have many more. This land is going to lie fallow unless something is done with it. It could be used for housing if the údarás was allowed to use the ready to build scheme.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I have given a lot of flexibility. You can hear the passion. I call Deputy Joe Cooney.

Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses for coming in and for their opening statements. One phrase I heard in the opening statement was that there is no future with no houses, especially for our young people. What is going to happen? I come from County Clare. While we have no Gaeltacht, our coastal communities face many of the same challenges the witnesses are facing. The huge demand for second homes and holiday rental is displacing local families and threatening the viability of schools, services and community life. In the case of the Gaeltacht, it is undermining the population base that is essential to protect the future of the Irish language, which is very important. While tourism is welcome, it should not come at the cost of local people being priced out of their own communities, nor at the cost of our language, culture or heritage. Do the witnesses believe that a house with a history of use as a permanent residence should require planning permission for material change of use as a second home or as a holiday home?

Mr. Dónall Ó Cnáimshí:

"Yes" is the answer to that. In Donegal, something like 80% of applicants get planning permission, but even in our area you would wonder about local needs. A lot of those applicants are not living permanently in the area. They might have a tenuous link to grandparents or something and a lot of them are living in Scotland, but they are getting permission to build houses in the Gaeltacht, in Gaoth Dobhair especially. A very large house was built there in the last year with three floors and a serenity pool. All the locals say they would not get planning permission for the likes of that.

What we are worried about is, as the Deputy said, that the areas will be blighted by second homes and holiday homes. As Ms Ní Shlatarra said earlier on, they are lying empty for most of the year. When you look at the figures you see that many houses are being built every year in these Gaeltacht areas, but who is building them? Are they permanent residents in the area? Are they Irish speakers? Are they adding to the community? There are questions to be asked about that. As Mr. Ó hÉallaithe said, Údarás na Gaeltachta has large land banks in all the Gaeltacht areas. I am employed by the local development co-operative in Gaoth Dobhair, Comharchumann Forbartha Ghaoth Dobhair.

Comharchumann Forbartha Ghaoth Dobhair would like to develop a scheme as it has in Corca Dhuibhne. It is working in conjunction with Údarás na Gaeltachta to develop a housing scheme if the funding were made available. We want solutions to these problems. It is also hard to assess the housing needs because a lot of young people who are maybe stuck in Dublin and would like to transfer back have not even begun any kind of planning application or anything. They do not qualify for social housing. There should be some sort of affordable housing scheme so we can attract young people back to their home areas. That is what we would like the rural people to be advocating for.

Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I note references to short-term rentals and second homes as being an issue. Which do the witnesses think is the biggest problem for their communities?

Mr. Dónall Ó Cnáimshí:

The holiday home market pushes up the price of housing. It is astronomical when you think of the price for young people to be able to afford to build. It would help if the serviced sites were able to lower the price of housing. That is anything that would make it sustainable and available to young people so they can see it as an option to be able to obtain mortgages for these things. The situation is difficult at the moment when you are competing with the holiday home market.

Mr. Donncha Ó hÉallaithe:

There is no doubt that when houses come on the market in our area, which is by the sea, local people are being priced out of it. I have come across some members of our committee and it has happened to them. They have shown an interest in a house. A price has been advertised, and they are willing to give that price. They are told somebody has gone higher than them. They go higher again and reach the limit at which they can get a mortgage and then find there is somebody else who does not seem to be bothered by such limits. Invariably the house ends up as a holiday home for somebody. This is happening. You have to practical about what you can do about that. A lot of the people who buy holiday homes knock them and build a new house because they would not be able to get planning permission to build a second house. One thing that could be done is to make it part of the planning process that if you are going to make big material changes to a second home that you must be doing that for a home you will be permanently living in. That means there would be less demand to buy houses for people to knock down or substantially knock down and build on extensions, etc. It is one idea that could be used if you want to make it more or less a fairer market for the local people who want to find a permanent home.

With regard to Airbnb, I feel it is more attractive to a lot of people to rent out short term on Airbnb than long term. I know the Government says it will do something about that with regard to planning and registering, etc. In rural areas where there is a lot of Airbnb incentives have to be provided for people to make those available for long-term rental. I am sure there is a mixture of things the Government would be able to do in a situation like that.

Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Unfortunately, it is preventing our young people from buying those houses. That is why a lot of them do not want to come back to the areas. They know they will not be able to get the mortgage to buy the house because of people with second homes coming from different areas to buy these houses in the coastal and tourist areas.

Dr. Ann Nolan:

I will add to what Mr. Ó hÉallaithe, Mr. Ó Cnáimhsí, Mr. Prendergast and Ms Ní Shlatarra have said. I come to this issue indirectly with no personal investment in any particular Gaeltacht area and unfortunately I do not speak the Irish language. Is tosaitheoir mé agus táim ag foghlaim na Gaeilge arís. However, I spent some time down in the Corca Dhuibhne Gaeltacht last year by happenstance and I was astounded by the overwhelming volume of empty holiday homes. As a policy specialist and former civil servant of this parish it just prompted me to start looking through the CSO data. What I discovered was quite extraordinary. In Corca Dhuibhne alone, in the language planning area of west Kerry, in the most recent census in 2022, over 30% of the housing stock was unoccupied holiday homes, with unoccupied dwellings rounding it up to 40%. The average in Munster is 12% and the average nationally is 8%. My sense is that it is even higher than is captured by the census. Corca Dhuibhne as I am sure you all know is a place that would make a passionate poet of a postman. It is the most amazing landscape, but it is desolate during the winter months. Whole rows of houses, one more beautiful than another, are lying vacant for the much of the year until the holiday season begins. When properties do come on the market they are extortionately expensive. If you look at other data on the Irish language what is also clear is that it is definitely having an impact on daily spoken Irish and Irish as a community language in the Corca Dhuibhne area. There is a huge in increase, as Mr. Ó hÉallaithe and Mr. Ó Cnáimhsí have said, in the population in west Kerry Gaeltacht areas, specifically the one I have looked at. Despite that, between 2011 and 2022 there is a 39% decline in the number of people who speak Irish daily.

I hope to answer Deputy Ó Broin's question. A colleague and I, in partnership with Tobar Dhuibhne, are currently putting together a research proposal to inform the development of the national plan to identify what specific interventions would potentially have a huge impact on the local area. There is no doubt that the proliferation of holiday homes is driving up prices. If I sold my home in north inner city Dublin I absolutely could not afford a property on the Dingle peninsula any more, and I have a good job in a university. It is utterly prohibitive. It has become a playground for rich people pricing out people like Ms Ní Shlatarra. Many young people and young families, even with two people working in good jobs, simply cannot afford to access or get a mortgage or planning permission. As part of the research, I have been looking at policies in other areas. I think the national planning statement for housing in Gaeltacht areas needs to be forceful. That is really crucial. If you look at the Welsh policy, it is radical and impactful and there is a huge commitment with a budget stated at the outset. That is exactly what is needed, not some vague language about supporting a framework for planning. As Mr. Prendergast has said, we have been waiting for that statement to come. It is really crucial. I know a piece of research has been sent out looking for people's views, but it is not really trying to pin down what specific regulations and policy interventions are needed to change the situation where the Irish language and its future as a community language is under threat as a result of housing. The 20-year strategy is focused. It is linguocentric interventions which are all hugely important, but they do not drive through change unless you have structural economic changes as well to realise change.

I think it is really interesting-----

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I might just-----

Dr. Ann Nolan:

One second, let me just finish. I am sorry, I am going to do a Fidel Castro on it.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I am just keeping an eye on the clock as we are gone seven minutes over time.

Dr. Ann Nolan:

Okay, just two seconds. If you look at the Welsh plan they are using council tax to impose the maximum tax on holiday homes and second homes. They have three new planning classes. There is a licence to operate as visitor accommodation.

As Mr. Ó hÉallaithe said, you need planning permission to change the purpose of a dwelling for anything other than living in it. There is also an empty home scheme. Again, as was said, I know we are introducing that. I raise the issue of co-operative and community-led housing. There a National Association of Building Co-Ops, NABCO, movement in Dublin. This is not a new thing. It was hugely important during a different housing crisis of another era.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I have to interject. I have been fairly lenient with time. I am conscious there will possibly be another vote and that we will probably lose 15 to 20 minutes. Dr. Nolan was mid-flow there. I did not want to interrupt her. We will pray that other members will not come into the meeting or we will have problems with time and such.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis na finnéithe as an obair atá á déanamh acu. It is clear that ár dteanga is i mbaol. The pobal Gaeltachta is i mbaol. That is very clear mar níl aon tithe ar fáil sa Ghaeltacht, but, of course, there are. They are on Airbnb. There is vacant housing and tithe saoire. It seems to me that they are the two core issues, that alongside the massive level of vacancy and Airbnb is this failure to build and facilitate communities of the Gaeltacht to build affordable housing. I asked the councils this earlier. My first question to the witnesses is in relation to Airbnb. The new rules are not going to have any impact at all on the Gaeltacht communities because they are only going to apply to areas over 20,000 in population. Do the witnesses have a concern about that? What do they think needs to change in the regulations on short-term lets?

The other issue is this role or potential role of the údarás in facilitating and developing housing. I asked representatives from the Department of the Gaeltacht earlier. What they said is the Minister does not see a primary role in housing being given to the údarás, but they see a potential secondary role. It is unclear what is meant by a secondary role. They are saying they will bring forward an amendment on that. The údarás should have a primary role. It seems clear it should have a primary role in delivering and ensuring affordable housing is delivered for Gaeltacht communities. In particular, there is so much potential about connecting the delivery of modern methods of construction and factory housing that the údarás could do. It could then build factory housing and affordable housing on the land the údarás owns. What level is the crisis at if we do not have a serious level of intervention? Are the witnesses concerned that what we are going to continue to see is lip service, vague plans and not actually anything that is going to change this situation fundamentally?

Mr. Donncha Ó hÉallaithe:

Starting with Airbnb, I agree with Deputy Hearne. If it applies to towns over 20,000, it is certainly not going to apply to any Gaeltacht areas. That is not going to matter. Basically, as I was saying earlier in reply to Deputy Cooney, what needs to be done is, maybe using the tax system, to make it more attractive for people to rent houses on a long-term basis to people in scenic areas, not just Gaeltacht areas but scenic areas like County Clare, where there might be a lot of demand for Airbnb. A rebalancing needs to be done there.

The question on the údarás is a big one as to what its role should be. The amendment being proposed by the Government with regard to the údarás Bill before the Oireachtas at the moment, and has to proceed through Report Stage is actually worse than not having any amendment at all. The reason I say that is that it would restrict Údarás na Gaeltachta to giving the land it has at the moment, which could be used for housing, to the county councils, who, in our experience, are not primarily concerned about the Irish language when dealing with housing. That is our experience in dealing with Galway County Council and might be the experience of other people. That is the údarás's primary concern. That is why we would like that the údarás would have the primary role because the Irish language is its primary concern under existing legislation. Not only that, but under existing legislation, the údarás has a role in providing employment and social, economic and cultural development. Social, economic and cultural development, can, in various ways, include housing. It is also empowered under the 2012 Act to institute schemes, tionscnaimh or projects that would advance the Gaeltacht socially, culturally and economically. I imagine that includes housing.

In fact, Údarás na Gaeltachta replaced Gaeltarra Éireann. Gaeltarra Éireann built houses in Gaoth Dobhair. Mr. Ó Cnáimhsí could tell the committee about them. They are now at the moment lying empty and belong to Údarás na Gaeltachta. Údarás na Gaeltachta owns houses that are empty in Gaoth Dobhair from the time that Gaeltarra Éireann built houses. It is quite extraordinary that the Minister for the Gaeltacht should say that the údarás is not able to get involved primarily in dealing with providing houses for Irish speakers in Irish-speaking areas. In our opinion, looking at the legislation, that could be part of the remit. Of course, it would need money for that. That is why we believe that the údarás needs to set up a rannóg tithíochta, a department of housing, employing engineers, being able to design schemes of houses, being able to move quickly on the ready to build scheme, along with the county councils, of course. It is not that county councils have no role in this or that they should be cut out but that the údarás should be in the driving seat, not in the secondary seat, with regard to the provision of houses for Irish speakers and Irish-speaking areas. That is how we would see it.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Tá an ceart ag Donncha Ó hÉallaithe.

Mr. John Prendergast:

Tiocfaidh mé isteach ar an gcéad phointe a bhí ag an Teachta Hearne ansin. Ba chóir go mbeadh gach limistéar pleanála teanga Ghaeltachta aitheanta mar limistéar speisialta caomhnaithe teanga. Chuige sin, ba chóir go mbeadh gach riail a bhaineann leis an 20,000 duine sin leis na Airbnbs agus an clár a bheith á choimeád i gceist le gach limistéar pleanála teanga Ghaeltachta. Mar sin, ba chóir go mbeadh na rialacha a bhaineann leis na hionaid mhóra i gceist leis na ceantair Ghaeltachta.

Mr. Donncha Ó hÉallaithe:

We would disagree entirely with that. You have to distinguish between areas in the Gaeltacht that are Irish speaking, and areas that are not Irish speaking and have not been for a long time. Under the present boundaries of the Gaeltacht, there are more people living in Galway city in the Gaeltacht than there are living in all the Gaeltachtaí in Munster, between Waterford, Kerry and Cork. That is the reason that you have to distinguish between the Irish-speaking Gaeltacht areas and the areas that are no longer Irish-speaking but are still in the Gaeltacht.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Beidh mé gairid go leor. Táim tar éis labhairt leis na finnéithe ar fad cheana agus ceisteanna ar seo a ardú. Luadh an baol a bhí ann ó thaobh na scoileanna de. An féidir leis na finnéithe leathnú a dhéanamh ar an mbaol, ní hamháin ar cad iad na seirbhísí nó na codanna sin den Ghaeltacht atá i mbaol mura ndéileálfar leis seo anois láithreach? Ceann de na cinn a bhfuil spéis ar leith agam ann ná na coláistí samhraidh agus an baol atá ann don earnáil ar leith seo nach féidir tarlú in aon áit eile sa tír. Do a lán daoine lasmuigh den Ghaeltacht, is sórt rite of passage é, seachas sin, is gnó é do a lán daoine sa Ghaeltacht. Tá fostaíocht ann agus cur chun cinn na Gaeilge agus na Gaeltachta i gceist.

Mr. Dónall Ó Cnáimshí:

Thiocfadh liom rud a rá. Tá Coláiste Bhríde, Rann na Feirste, ag ceiliúradh 100 bliain ónar bunaíodh é i mbliana. In 1926, bunaíodh Coláiste Bhríde, Rann na Feirste. Bhí tionchar mór ag an gcoláiste sin ar an gceantar, na scoláirí a d'fhan sa cheantar agus a thug teacht isteach do na mná tí. Nuair a bunaíodh an coláiste sin, bhí na fir ag imeacht go hAlbain i gcaitheamh an tsamhraidh. Bhí na mná ag fanacht sa bhaile leis na páistí. Thug sé deis dóibh teacht isteach a bheith acu, rud a mhair thar na blianta fada, go dtí gur bunaíodh an t-eastát tionsclaíochta i nGaoth Dobhair agus chuir sé deireadh leis an imeacht séasúrach go hAlbain. Bhí na fir ábalta fanacht sa bhaile ansin agus obair i monarchana. Chuir na coláistí Gaeilge go mór leis an gceantar ag an am. Tá baol mór anois ann i dtaca mo mháthar féin. Choinnigh sí na scoláirí ar feadh dhá scór bliain go dtí gur éirigh sí róshean faoina choinne.

Bliain i ndiaidh bliana, bíonn níos lú tithe ar fáil ag na coláistí Gaeilge. Measann siad nach bhfuil a dhóthain airgid le fáil.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Níl na tithe ar fáil de bharr gur casadh iad ina dtithe Airbnb nó tithe samhraidh.

Mr. Dónall Ó Cnáimshí:

Bíonn sé sin ag tarlú chomh maith. Measann daoine go bhféadfaidís teacht isteach a shaothrú trí Airbnb agus tithe a chur amach ar cíos mar níl a dhóthain liúntais le fáil ó bheith ag coinneáil scoláirí anois. Tá gach coláiste samhraidh iontach buartha faoin todhchaí.

I dtaca leis na scoileanna, tá dhá scoil, Scoil Mhín an Chladaigh agus Scoil Loch an Iúir, i mbaol de bharr go bhfuil na figiúirí ag dul i laghad go suntasach. Reáchtáil scoil i gCéideadh scéim anuraidh a bhronn €2,000 ar theaghlaigh chun a gcuid páistí a chlárú sa scoil. D’éirigh léi cúpla teaghlach a bhogadh go dtí an ceantar ach níor fhan siad ann. Bhog siad ar aghaidh. Is as an Úcráin iad dhá de na teaghlaigh sin agus b’éigean dóibh bogadh de dheasca nach dtiocfadh leo teach a fháil ar cíos sa cheantar in aice leis an scoil. Ba é sin ba chúis leo imeacht ón cheantar. Tá na scoileanna, príomhoidí agus coláistí bainistíochta faoi bhrú le teacht aníos le scéimeanna le daoine a mhealladh go dtí an ceantar chun múinteoirí a choinneáil agus na scoileanna a choinneáil oscailte.

Arís, tá sé seo a dhul a bheith ag iarraidh níos measa bliain i ndiaidh bliana mar tá an oiread sin daoine óga gafa i mBaile Átha Cliath. Ba mhaith le go leor acu aistriú. Dá mbeadh scéim ann chun cuidiú le daoine athlonnú, bheadh sé sin ina chuidiú an-mhór. Mar a dúirt John Prendergast níos luaithe, tá straitéis de dhíth. Tá measúnú de dhíth ar na riachtanais tithíochta sna ceantair seo agus tá scéimeanna de dhíth le daoine a mhealladh ar ais chuig na ceantair Ghaeltachta, agus na hoileáin chomh maith, rud a luadh fosta. Mura bhfuil aon straitéis, smaointeoireacht ná plean againn don todhchaí, cá bhfuilimid ag dul? Bliain i ndiaidh bliana, beidh na deacrachtaí seo ag iarraidh níos measa mura bhfuil aon straitéis ann.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Maidir leis an scéim lonnaíocht tuaithe sin - rural resettlement a bhíodh ann - mura bhfuil tithe ar fáil, ní féidir í a chur i bhfeidhm. Nuair a bhí an scéim sin ann, bhí tithe tréigthe timpeall na tíre ar a rabhthas ag díriú. Chomh maith leis sin, bhí straitéis ag an gcomhairle áitiúil díriú ar thithe a thógáil nó tithe a fháil chun daoine a mhealladh isteach sna ceantair chun na siopaí a oscailt, foirne peile a líonadh agus struchtúr iomlán an phobail a neartú. Glacaim leis go bhfuil na ceantair iargúlta i mbaol toisc nach bhfuil na tithe ar fáil.

Mr. Donncha Ó hÉallaithe:

Tá eolas réasúnta maith agam ar chás na Gaillimhe. Tá go leor daoine ar an liosta tithíochta i nGaeltacht Conamara, ach níl aon phlean ag Comhairle Chontae na Gaillimhe aon teach sóisialta a thógáil ó Bhearna siar go Carna. Níl aon tithe sóisialta á dtógáil aige. Níl sé i gceist aige aon cheann a thógáil ach oiread. Tá sé ag iarraidh na tithe a thógáil sna bailte beaga, cosúil leis An Clochán, Uachtar Ard, Maigh Cuilinn, Bearna, Claregalway agus mar sin de. Bíonn an chomhairle contae ag ofráil tithe sna háiteanna sin do dhaoine ó cheantar na n-oileán, mar shampla. Tá gasúir ag na daoine seo a bhíonn ag freastal ar an scoil áitiúil, atá i mbaol a dúnta ar aon chaoi, ach ofrálann Comhairle Chontae na Gaillimhe teach dóibh in Uachtar Ard nó Maigh Cuilinn. Bíonn daoine á mealladh amach, ní d’aon ghnó ach de bharr nach bhfuil aon rogha eile ann. Is é sin an fáth go bhfuil sé seo tábhachtach. Ní hé nach bhfuil talamh ag Comhairle Chontae na Gaillimhe i gceantar na n-oileán. Tá cúig heicteár aige i Leitir Mealláin a d’fhéadfadh sé forbairt. Tá cúig heicteár aige i Leitir Móir nach mbeadh chomh héasca sin a fhorbairt. Is é an plean tithíochta atá aige, áfach, ná gan aon teach a thógáil sna ceantair seo. Dar leis an gcomhairle, is ceantair thuaithe iad nár cheart tithe a thógáil iontu. Caithfimid an meon sin a athrú.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Luaigh na finnéithe a bhí anseo níos luaithe nach bhfuil aon phlean acu tithe samhraidh a cheannach sa cheantar chun cuidiú leo siúd atá sa cheantar nó ag iarraidh fanacht sa cheantar. Dúirt siad nach bhfuil aon phlean acu é sin a dhéanamh in aon bhealach in aon chor.

Mr. Donncha Ó hÉallaithe:

Is rud eile é sin a bhaineann le beagnach gach ceantar cois cósta. Tá go leor tithe samhraidh agus mar sin de. Tá scéim amháin ann, ach níl mé cinnte cén bealach a n-oibreoidh sé. Tá duine fostaithe ag Údarás na Gaeltachta le breathnú ar na tithe tréigthe sna ceantair Ghaeltachta ar fad. Tá mé ag ceapadh, ar a laghad, go gcuirfear bunachar sonraí le chéile le haghaidh na dtithe tréigthe. Níl a fhios agam cad é a dhéanfar ina dhiaidh sin. Is é an rud ar mhaith linne go dtarlódh ina dhiaidh sin ná go mbeadh scéim faoi leith sna ceantair Ghaeltachta chun tithe tréigthe a dhéanamh suas agus a bheith ar fáil mar thithe bhuanchónaithe do chainteoirí Gaeilge sna ceantair Ghaeltachta.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis na finnéithe as ucht a gcuid fianaise. Tá cuma ar an scéal go mbainfidh an Rialtas seo amach, i gceann cúpla bliain, an méid nár éirigh leis na céadta bliain de choilíneachas a bhaint amach, is é sin, deireadh ré na Gaelainne mar theanga bheo bríomhar labhartha an phobail. Bhí an fhianaise agus an ráiteas a thug Eibhlín Ní Shlatarra thar a bheith chumhachtach agus láidir. Tá an téarma sin a bhain sí úsáid as, “tearmann teanga”, mar gheall ar a ceantar féin, ach atá in oiriúint d’aon cheantar Gaeltachta sa tír, an-láidir agus an-tábhachtach. I ndiaidh dom éisteacht leis an bhfianaise níos luaithe inniu ó chuid de na finnéithe, níor cheap mé gur thuig siad an phráinn atá ag baint leis an gceist áirithe seo. Le linn glúine amháin eile, tá seans nach mbeidh na pobail seo ag feidhmiú mar ba cheart, is é sin, mar phobail Ghaeltachta.

Tá cúpla ceist agam. Tuigimid go léir sa seomra seo an tábhacht agus an phráinn a bhaineann leis seo. Is mian liom tógáil ar shaineolas na bhfinnéithe. Is oifigigh phleanála teanga iad agus is iaroifigeach pleanála teanga mé. Cén tionchar a imreoidh ceist na tithíochta ar an gcéad ghlúin eile, agus forbairt an chéad ghlúine eile de phleananna teanga? Cé chomh deacair is atá sé réiteach a fháil ar an scéal seo leis an easpa eolais ag leibhéal náisiúnta atá ag na Ranna agus na gníomhaireachtaí Stáit mar gheall ar an méid éilimh atá sna ceantair Ghaeltachta i gcomhthéacs plean fadtéarmach nó polasaí náisiúnta a chur i gcrích? Cén saghas tuisceana atá ag na finnéithe ar an tábhacht a bhaineann leis an bpatrún nó gréasán lonnaíochta tuaithe i dtaobh na ceiste áirithe seo a fhreagairt? Tá an patrún sin difriúil inár gceantair Ghaeltachta, agus fiú laistigh dár gceantair Ghaeltachta. Tá sé éagsúil ó áiteanna eile faoin tuath. Is cúpla ceist iad sin agus fágfaidh mé faoi na finnéithe iad a fhreagairt.

Mr. Dónall Ó Cnáimshí:

I dtaca leis an phatrún lonnaíochta, táimid cóir a bheith ar ais anois mar a bhí sé le linn na gcaogaidí sular tógadh an t-eastát tionsclaíochta i nGaoth Dobhair, mar shampla. Tá go leor de na fir óga ag oibriú i mBaile Átha Cliath, Londain nó níos faide i gcéin ar feadh cuid mhaith den bhliain agus bíonn na mná sa bhaile leis na páistí. Mar gheall ar an chostas a bhaineann le tógáil na dtithe agus na morgáistí móra atá acu, caithfidh siad imeacht as baile le tuarastal a shaothrú le híoc ar a son. Tá tionchar mór aige sin ar na pobail sin nuair a bhíonn an oiread sin daoine ag obair as baile.

Luadh an Teachta Doherty níos luaithe. Mar is eol do chuid mhaith na mball, bíonn sé ag taisteal go Baile Átha Cliath achan uile lá le hoibriú anseo sa Dáil agus ionadaíocht mhaith a dhéanamh dá phobal. Tá na céadta eile atá sa cheantar céanna ag oibriú i mBaile Átha Cliath Luan go hAoine le híoc ar son a gcuid tithe sa bhaile. Tá tionchar aige sin ar na pobail. Tá sé le feiceáil sna tithe tábhairne. Tá sé le feiceáil sa phobal go ginearálta nach mbíonn na daoine seo thart le linn na seachtaine. Tá tionchar mór aige sin.

I dtaca leis na pleananna teanga, mar is eol don Teachta McGuinness, bhí an réimse pleanála luaite chomh maith leis na pleananna teanga. Níl aon chumhacht againn air sin, áfach, mar oifigigh phleanála teanga. Is é mo ról mar oifigeach pleanála teanga ná a bheith anseo ag stocaireacht, ag labhairt amach agus ag ardú na gceisteanna seo. Níl mórán eile a thig liom a dhéanamh i dtaca leis sin. Táimid ar tí plean nua a dhréachtú. Tá mo choiste beagáinín tuirseach i ndiaidh seacht mbliana de seo. Ba mhaith linn dá mbeadh próiseas níos comhtháite ann agus go mbeimis ag oibriú lámh le lámh le Roinn na Gaeltachta agus Údarás na Gaeltachta chun na ceisteanna móra faoi thodhchaí na Gaeltachta a leigheas. Níl aon cheist níos mó ná níos práinní ná ceist na tithíochta. Ba mhaith le mo choiste a bheith ábalta suí síos agus na rudaí seo a phlé chun teacht aníos le freagraí na gceisteanna seo.

Tá práinn leis. Mar a dúirt an Teachta, ba chóir go dtuigfeadh an tAire go bhfuil práinn iontach leis na ceisteanna seo agus go bhfeicfeadh sé go bhfuil muid, mar oifigigh pleanála teanga, ag oibriú air seo agus ábalta teacht aníos le freagraí le dul i ngleic leis.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Cuirim an cheist céanna ar Eibhlín Ní Shlatarra faoina taithí ina ceantar i gCiarraí.

Ms Eibhlín Ní Shlatarra:

Maidir leis an gcéad ghlúin eile, cuireann sé déistin orm uaireanta agus mé ag plé le leanaí óga a bhfuil Gaeilge aoibhinn álainn acu agus atá ag iarraidh a bheith páirteach sna rudaí seo ar fad - bíonn clubanna óige iontacha go hiomlán as Gaelainn agus na rudaí seo ar fad á rith againn - go bhfuil mé ag cuimhneamh ar chúl mo chinn go mbeidh orthu ar fad bogadh thar lear nó as an áit seo. Má tá mise ag streachailt faoi láthair, ní bheidh seans dá laghad ag na leanaí seo a bheith ina gcónaí sa cheantar. Briseann sé mo chroí. Nuair a chuimhním ar mo chairde, mar shampla, tá siad chomh mór sin ag iarraidh teacht abhaile. Tá cuid acu ag súil agus teastaíonn uathu a gcuid leanaí a thógáil le Gaelainn chun an Ghaelainn a sheachadadh agus a chur ar aghaidh. N’fheadar faoin chéad ghlúin eile. Braitheann sé go mór ar an dtithíocht. Is ceist mhór ghroí í i dtaca le pleanáil teanga.

Mr. Dónall Ó Cnáimshí:

Tá clár faisnéise dul a bheith ar TG4 le Clean Slate Television an tseachtain seo chugainn. Is é bunús an chláir sin ná gur tógadh grianghraf d’fhoireann sinsir peile Ghaoth Dobhair in 2018 nuair a bhain siad craobh Uladh, agus grianghraf eile d’fhoireann na mban nuair a bhain siad an craobh sinsir in 2023, agus fiosraítear na háiteanna ina bhfuil na daoine sin anois. Tá nach mór trí cheathrú de na foirne sin anois – foireann na mban agus foireann na bhfear – thar lear i Dubai. Léireoidh an clár sin an oiread daoine atá imithe as an cheantar taobh istigh de thréimhse ghairid.

Mr. John Prendergast:

Tacaím leis an méid a dúirt Eibhlín Ní Shlatarra. Tá sé le feiceáil i roinnt comhairlí contae go mbrúitear daoine amach as na ceantair Ghaeltachta go dtí na bailte. Tá an patrún lonnaíochta athraithe go mór. Tá tábhacht le daoine a bheith timpeall, cosúil le haintíní, uncailí agus máithreacha agus aithreacha críonna. Tá sé sin fíorthábhachtach. Ní fhaightear é sin sna cathracha nó thar lear. Is gné eile den phleanáil teanga é sin nach mbíonn muid ag caint air.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The bells started about three minutes ago. I am going to suspend for roughly ten minutes until after the vote.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I will ask a couple of questions myself but then I will go back to members.

Somebody brought up Wales and Scotland. Will the witnesses tell me what is being done doing there with regard to their Gaeltacht areas and the language? I was taken by the comment "a playground for rich people" and I think Deputy McGuinness mentioned the Gaeltacht being a language sanctuary. As someone who is not an Irish speaker but who has a love of the language and a love of listening to it, I need to learn it, and I will. It is one of those things I have committed myself to doing. I do not agree with the way it is taught in school. We should teach the language and have more people learning to speak it. Then those who want to go and learn the poetry and the prose can do so but we should learn Irish as we learn our European languages.

I am from Longford, and I have seen a lot of pop-up Gaeltachts, discussions in pubs and organised events in my own local area. It is growing. I can see it in an area that is totally away from any Gaeltacht area. It is a rich language that survived for hundreds of years when a lot of other languages in other countries did not. It is important that we put the mechanisms that Deputy Ó Broin mentioned in place, and that we write to the Department and make sure that the report which was mentioned in our earlier session is published. We cannot be waiting five years for a report on something as important as our heritage.

With regard to what they have done in those other countries, and Mr. Ó hÉallaithe mentioned not building in certain towns. They should now be able to use developer-led wastewater treatment plants in smaller towns and villages that do not have public systems. The capacity to build houses should be there now in those smaller towns. Will Dr. Nolan comment on this?

Dr. Ann Nolan:

Sure, thank you, Deputy. The point that Eibhlín Ní Shlatarra makes is really important because the current strategy really emphasises bottom-up initiatives and increasing the number of people. Like the Deputy said about Longford, there is a pop-up Gaeltacht in my area as well. These are fantastic in terms of increasing the number of people who speak Irish, but we know that in so many areas like, for example, sexual and reproductive health, which is my primary area of expertise, change takes place in Ireland when there are bottom-up and top-down interventions.

I think that what Eibhlín is taking about is that - albeit that a lot of interventions in the language planning areas are quite underfunded - there is an increase, and a welcome increase, in the number of places available to learn Irish and support ciorcail chomhrá around the country with an increase in the number of people who want to speak Irish. However, that will not enable change or protect the future of the Gaeltacht areas unless there are structural interventions and that is what we are seeing in other jurisdictions, including, for example, in Barcelona in the north of Spain. What began very much as local activist movements, such as BÁNÚ and Tobar Dhuibhne, and others that my fellow panellists have all raised, change has been enabled by top-down, structural interventions as well.

In engaging with the extant literature and data that is available on housing and language policy here, what strikes me is that in the middle of the 20th century from the period of retrenchment from intervention in the economy, what we see is a policy of protected non-engagement. There are huge implementation gaps in many of the policies that are agreed. They are underfunded. A lot of the initiatives that seem to be funded are low-lying fruit that do not address many of the structural barriers that prevent people in Gaeltacht areas from being able to live there or return there after they have taken up jobs in cities and maybe want to start a family. In Dún Chaoin, many of the Irish schools are seeing a huge decline in the number of children attending every year.

Someone asked a question about the summer schools; I have enrolled in the language school because I really want to improve my Irish and immerse myself in Irish. While the course itself was €300, which is very affordable, I am looking at a minimum of €1,800 for a week in accommodation down there because all that is available are Airbnbs at extortionate prices.

Wales, Scotland and northern Spain have taken really radical initiatives. Barcelona is literally eliminating, year on year, the number of Airbnbs allowed to operate. They are going to eliminate the number of Airbnbs operating there by 2030. That is maybe not what is required here because tourism is hugely important to the economy and to jobs in many of these areas as well. In the Welsh case, it is using the planning system and the taxation systems as disincentives for holiday homes. In many parts of Wales, there has been an up to 300% increase in council tax for second homeowners. If you are not renting out your holiday home for a minimum of 186 days in a year, you are basically fined an additional tax in relation to that. It disincentivises people buying holiday homes, maybe using them once or twice a year and leaving them vacant and empty for the rest of the year. This is what I experienced down in Corca Dhuibhne, no matter where I went. I was staying out in Baile na hEaglaise. There was a row of about 24 houses and only about 20% were occupied. One house was more beautiful than the other. I actually became quite interested in seeing when people visited, and it was hardly ever at all. They lay empty for the entire winter in the middle of a housing crisis while people like Eibhlín and people working in Dingle cannot rent accommodation and cannot find anywhere to live. There are pubs and local businesses that cannot hire or recruit staff because they cannot accommodate them anywhere, so it has a knock-on effect across the board.

In Wales, it is similar to here in terms of providing incentives to do up local derelict properties, except the rule now in Welsh-speaking communities is that those grants are only made available to people who are Welsh-speaking, embedded in the community and raising families in the community. They are not widely available to anybody. There is quite strong and very proactive and legislation and regulation that is both incentivising local people to buy, stay in their areas and speak their local language and disincentivising Airbnbs, while not eliminating it. Wales, in particular, takes quite a balanced approach because it sees that these communities are hugely dependent on tourism. Corca Dhuibhne, for example, is extremely rich culturally. Its poets, writers and visual artists are what draw so many people to the area, but those people are not going to be able to stay there unless there is adequate housing.

Finally, the other really key thing they are doing in Wales is reinvigorating the co-operative housing movement and providing local grants through the local authorities to local communities that want to develop housing settlements on a co-operative basis in their areas.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Part of what I want to do is make some recommendations to the witnesses that will be helpful to us in the work that is coming down the line. Even though we have waited an enormous amount of time for the planning guidelines for rural areas, the Gaeltacht areas, the islands and the short-term letting sector, when they come, they will come very quickly. They will come at us in a way that we need to be prepared for.

There is no statutory requirement for the Minister to consult. The legislation allows him to consult but does not require it. There is also no statutory requirement for this body to be consulted, although the Minister has that option. Therefore, those of us who are on the same page in terms of needing to get these right all have to shout as loudly as possible that there needs to be consultation with communities, the sector and with this committee, as well an opportunity to feed into the final version.

Regarding the short-term letting sector - and there is huge confusion out there - it is not the case that the arbitrary 20,000 limit means that the national planning policy statement on short-term letting will have no impact on the Gaeltacht.

It could have a good or a very bad impact, depending on what is in the planning policy statement. I know there was a slight disagreement earlier, and that is fine. However, if all of us who are concerned about the issue of short-term letting and its impacts, as set out by Dr. Nolan, take a common position, the better it will be when the planning policy statement on short-term letting is published because we will be able to say, "These are the changes we need." For example, there is a case to be made that where people already living in Gaeltacht communities are using their own property for short-term letting, that might get one specific treatment. However, properties that were given planning permission for long-term residential occupation should be put back into long-term residential occupation. Perhaps between Mr. Prendergast and Mr. Ó hÉallaithe, there is not as big a disagreement in terms of what the restrictions should be. I am saying that because our job of making a case to Government would be easier if we were all agreed on that. It is similar with the Gaeltacht planning policy statement. The way in which that interacts with the islands and rural one is key. There has to be an explicit acknowledgment of the Irish language as a social connection in all three of those. Once we get that, it will open up all sorts of other things.

I offer this as somebody who spends all his time on housing and not on language. That means I come to this conversation from a different point of view. I caution against putting all of the eggs in the Údarás basket. I am not in anyway disagreeing with any of the recommendations I have heard but in addition to Údarás, there are local authorities, approved housing bodies, AHBs, and the co-operative movement made up of community housing trusts and the community land trusts. We need to see a menu of options available so that, depending on the community and location, one of those or a combination of those becomes the viable vehicle for delivering the homes we are talking about. I am not necessarily saying anything the witnesses disagree with, but if that is not explicitly set out in the planning policy statements, we will be fighting a rearguard action once they are through and done.

I invite witnesses to make initial comments on that and also to continue the conversation among themselves and with members and their allies here before we get those drafts. The more we speak with one voice, the more difficult it will be for the Government or its officials to ignore the changes we want and need. I am genuinely concerned that the short-term letting planning policy statement and the other policy statements will not necessarily have the contents we need and there will be a job of work over a very short period to get this right. I am offering that by way of advice but also as an open door to work with us between now and then. Do the witnesses have a response to that?

Mr. Dónall Ó Cnáimshí:

Údarás na Gaeltachta, first and foremost, is the body with the remit for development of the Gaeltacht. Since it was founded, job creation has been its main priority. Language planning was added in the Act of 2012 and it may be that the Údarás was not really ready for that or did not want that responsibility. With language planning, we look at the issues. In each of those areas, we ask what the issues are. Housing is one of them. We have to formulate and develop plans and then implement them. We are stuck really. We have no power; we can only lobby about what we see. In our co-operative, we definitely want to work with the AHBs and other bodies to see how we can get a solution to the housing issue. We work day in, day out with údarás. We see land banks in these Gaeltacht areas that we think could provide some solutions to the problems we have.

We lobbied to get a full Ministry for the Gaeltacht again and we are very happy that was achieved. The Minister, Deputy Calleary, is very happy and proud that he managed to get an allocation of €139 million this year for the Department, even though that also accounts for the islands and includes a big capital budget. It is coming from a very low base historically for the Department and the Irish language sector as a whole. Údarás na Gaeltachta is operating on a budget that is 50% what it had in 2006, 20 years ago. We are also lobbying to have funding for Údarás na Gaeltachta restored to its 2006 level. A responsibility for housing could be established within Údarás na Gaeltachta if that funding was allocated. That is the way we look at that.

Mr. John Prendergast:

Aontaím leis na pointí ar fad a bhí ráite. Gabhaim buíochas leis as na tuairimí tomhaiste a chur chugainn. Is dóigh liom go mbeimid ar fad ag cuimhneamh orthu. Tá moltaí láidre ann dúinn. Is maith liom an rud mar gheall ar an mbiachlár nó menu of options chomh maith faoi mar a bhaineann sé leis na rudaí seo, mar atá feicthe ag an gcoiste agus mar is eol dúinn go léir. Níl aon réiteach amháin simplí atá chun gach aon rud a leigheas. Tá ceantair Ghaeltachta áirithe le tosaíochtaí eile agus tosaíochtaí áirithe mar fhíric.

Faoi mar a sheasann sé, agus labhair an Dr. Ann Nolan maidir le the policy of protracted non-engagement. Tá gach aon duine againn, mar a dúirt Dónall Ó Cnáimhsí, ag obair i bhfolús. Sin iad na daoine agus na comharchumainn ar an talamh. Tá Comharchumann Forbartha Chorca Dhuibhne agus Páidí Ó Sé ag tógáil tithe iad féin mar go bhfuil an ghéarchéim chomh trom sin ag an mbaile thiar agus go bhfuil gá le tithe mar sin, gan mórán de thacaíocht nó fís Stáit. Tá tithe ar cíos ag an mbainisteoir sa chomharchumann i gCorca Dhuibhne. Tá tithe á dtógáil agus athchóiriú á dhéanamh aige ar áiteanna mar sin. Tá daoine ar a gcroí díchill na fadhbanna seo a réiteach. Faoi mar a bhaineann sé le co-ops chomh maith, feicim in Albain go bhfuil comhlachtaí beaga tithíochta agus tá model T agus saghas réitigh áirithe acu ar conas tithe inacmhainne a thógáil do dhaoine áitiúla. Gabhaim buíochas leis as na moltaí sin, go háirithe faoi mar a bhaineann sé leis an tréimhse chomhairliúcháin nach mbeidh ann. Mar sin, beimid ag cuimhneamh go mór ar sin.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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I thank the witnesses again for the work they are doing on this issue and for highlighting it. In particular, I thank Ms Ní Shlatarra for telling her scéal. As I said, it is an-tábhachtach ar fad. Looking at this, it seems there are major changes required to address this crisis properly. It is going to take a lot of brú - a lot of pressure - to get it done. I understand what Deputy Ó Broin said in relation to this, that it is important to look at the multiple ways in which housing can be delivered, particularly affordable housing, and that we are also pushing for local authorities to have a bigger role. I believe that Údarás na Gaeltachta, given what has been set out, has a real potential to drive housing delivery. There are a lot of ways it could develop that delivery innovatively, given the enterprise aspect, modern methods of construction and the possibility of developing its own factories. That is something we could develop as an innovative area in Ireland. I agree that there is a need for that. In terms of how we bring this forward, could the committee do a report on it?

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I think there is a consensus among members that, based on today's meeting, we could make a small number of recommendations in a short report to the Minister. I agree with Deputy Ó Broin that it would be good if there was consensus among the organisations represented on what the priority recommendations would be. We need the report I mentioned published. I think Mr. Prendergast said we had been waiting five years for it. The issue is not going away. We have a duty to protect our language and protect people living in the Gaeltacht areas. I say that as someone who comes from an area that is not in a Gaeltacht. We have to protect the Gaeltacht. I would definitely be supportive of the recommendation that we put together a short report, including our major recommendations, and send it to the Minister.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Does Dr. Nolan want to come back on any of that?

Dr. Ann Nolan:

Ms Ní Shlatarra in Tobar Dhuibhne and I will be conducting a small piece of research to look at what needs to happen in the Corca Dhuibhne Gaeltacht.

Even though it involves just one Gaeltacht, it is a qualitative study that will dig down into some of the issues people are experiencing and the specific regulations and interventions using taxation and planning policies that people want to see. We hope to be able to share our data in May or June.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Will Dr. Nolan be able to send that data to the committee?

Dr. Ann Nolan:

Of course I will. That is what I meant. We will also send it to the Department.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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It is something we should revisit, whether it is in one year or something. We should go back to see the progress that has been made on it, given our role.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I can put it down that in 12 months' time, we will follow up.

Conor McGuinness (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Bhí dhá sheisiún againn inniu. Bhí an chéad leath den chruinniú níos luaithe agus ansin an cruinniú seo leis na finnéithe atá os ár gcomhair. It is the tale of two meetings. Sa chéad leath den chluiche, chualamar faoi na cúiseanna nach féidir rudaí a dhéanamh, chomh maith leis na constaicí, na fadhbanna agus na leithscéalta. Sa dara leath, chualamar faoin tábhacht agus faoin bpráinn a bhaineann leis an gceist seo agus na slite timpeall uirthi, faoi na rudaí a oibreoidh, agus faoin dea-chleachtas i dtíortha eile. Caithfimid an dá thaobh – an fhianaise sa chéad leath agus sa dara leath araon - a bheith iniata sa tuairisc.

Ní raibh mórán ábhar dóchais sa chéad leath. Is léir é sin i bhfianaise pholasaithe an Rialtais agus Aire na Gaeltachta nuair nár ghlac siad le haon cheann de na leasuithe a chuireamar síos i dtaobh Bhille um Údarás na Gaeltachta (Leasú), 2024 chun an chumhacht a thabhairt don údarás dul i ngleic leis an ngéarchéim tithíochta. Is léir ó fhreagraí na n-oifigeach Rialtais inniu nach bhfuil sé sin chun tarlú. Is í an áit a bhfuil an pointe brú anois ná ar na húdaráis áitiúla i slí amháin, agus ar an Rialtas chomh maith.

I mo sheal cainte níos luaithe inniu, d’inis mé scéal faoi thrí shuíomh i nGaeltacht na nDéise: i Maoil an Choirnigh, atá i seilbh an chomhairle; i mBaile na nGall, atá i seilbh an údaráis; agus suíomh, ar leis an chomhairle é, ina chuireadar iarratas isteach chun tithe sóisialta a thógaint in 2019. Bhí mé i mo chomhairleoir ag an am agus dúradh liom go mbeadh an t-iarratas sin mar fast-track application process agus go mbeinn iontach sásta leis. Níl faic déanta leis an suíomh go fóill. Tá muid ag súil go mbeidh go luath, ach tá muid ag caint anois seacht mbliana níos déanaí. Is í sin an fhadhb. Níl an phráinn ná an tuiscint ag teacht ón Roinn tithíochta ach oiread. Nuair a thiteann ceist idir dhá Roinn Rialtais, bíonn sé sin an-úsáideach do na Ranna agus na hAirí sin.

Mar mholadh, nuair atá an tuairisc sin ullmhaithe agus seolta ar aghaidh chuig an Aire, b’fhéidir go gcuirfidh an coiste cuireadh chuig an Aire le teacht os comhair an choiste chun an cheist áirithe seo a phlé. Cé go bhfuil sé an-tábhachtach éisteacht leis na hoifigigh, ba cheart go mbeadh an beirt Aire os comhair an choiste chun an cheist seo a phlé nuair a ullmhaítear an tuairisc. Is é sin mo fhocal scoir. Gabhaim buíochas leis na finnéithe as ucht a gcuid fianaise inniu.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We have two or three minutes remaining. Do the witnesses wish to make any final remarks?

Mr. Dónall Ó Cnáimshí:

Is onóir dúinn a bheith anseo chun labhairt leis an choiste. Nuair a bunaíodh an Saorstát, is é ceann de na chéad rudaí a rinne sé ná coimisiún Gaeltachta a bhunú le hamharc ar a raibh fágtha de phobail labhartha na Gaeilge sa tír i ndiaidh na gcéadta bliain de dhiansmacht na Sasanach. Is é ceann de na moltaí ón choimisiún sin ná go mbunófaí Roinn Gaeltachta. Ghlac sé 30 bliain ina dhiaidh sin go dtí 1956 sular bunaíodh Roinn na Gaeltachta. Ina dhiaidh sin, bunaíodh Gaeltarra Éireann chun tús a chur le forbairtí sa Ghaeltacht agus deireadh a chur leis an bhánú agus leis an imirce a bhí ag marú na Gaeilge. D’éirigh leis sin. Caithfidh muid a rá gur éirigh le Roinn na Gaeltachta agus Gaeltarra Éireann – Údarás na Gaeltachta ina dhiaidh sin - fostaíocht a chruthú agus daoine óga a mhealladh ar ais agus iad a choinneáil sa cheantar, go háirithe i mo cheantarsa i nGaoth Dobhair. Tháinig go leor daoine ar ais ó Albain agus Sasana le cur fúthu sa Ghaeltacht. Thóg siad a gcuid teaghlach inti agus neartaigh siad an Ghaeltacht. Anois, áfach, tchínn muid go bhfuil bagairt eile ann. D’fhéadfaí a rá gur chóir go dtabharfaí faoi deara go dtarlódh fadhb na tithíochta. Is é an rud atá íorónta fá dtaobh de ná gurb iad na ceantair ba bhoichte sa tír in 1926 a bhfuil an ráchairt is mó orthu anois ó thaobh thithe saoire de. De thoradh an tsaibhris seo sa tír, táthar ag marú na gceantar seo agus na teanga, rud nár éirigh leis na céadta bliain de dhiansmacht na Sasanach a bhaint amach riamh, mar a dúirt an Teachta Ó Bhroin.

Anois, tá sé faoin Rialtas an cuspóir a athrú agus an teanga a choinneáil beo. Is cinnte go bhfuil an Ghaeilge á labhairt fud fad na tíre. Tá borradh fúithi. Ach is iad muidne, na pobail seo, a choinnigh an teanga beo thar na céadta bliain. Is muid an slabhra gan bhriseadh. Téann an Ghaeilge siar na céadta agus na mílte bliain sna ceantair seo. Is muid na pobail a mhair agus a choinnigh an teanga beo. Anois, áfach, tá na daoine buartha. Luadh an focal “dóchas”. Cén dóchas atá ag na pobail seo atá glan? Tá iníon agam féin atá ar an choláiste. Tá sí 21 bliain d’aois. Cén dóchas atá aici go mbeidh sí ábalta cur fúithi i nGaoth Dobhair choíche? Tá maoin agus tithe i nGaoth Dobhair á gceannach ag daoine ón taobh amuigh. Níl aon straitéis ná polasaí Rialtais chun muintir óg an cheantair a choinneáil sa cheantar le go mbeadh muid ábalta pobal beo bríomhar a choinneáil ann. Tá easpa dóchais ann. Ba mhaith leis an choiste, a bhfuil mé ag déanamh ionadaíochta ar a son, go mbeadh ábhar dóchais ann agus, nuair atá an ráiteas seo á dhéanamh ag an Aire, go mbeadh ábhar dóchas sa ráiteas sin i dtaca leis na ceisteanna seo.

Mr. John Prendergast:

Gabhaim buíochas leis an gcoiste as cluas éisteachta a thabhairt dúinn agus cuireadh a thabhairt dúinn teacht os comhair an choiste. Tá dóchas uainn, mar a dúirt Dónall Ó Cnáimshí. Maidir leis na rudaí a dúramar mar gheall ar an tuarascáil agus moltaí a dhéanamh don Aire, molaim don choiste iad a bhrú ar aghaidh. Bheadh sé sin cabhrach.

Tá a fhios agam go mbíonn tuairimí difriúla ag daoine éagsúla. Labhair Donncha Ó hÉallaithe níos túisce mar gheall ar cheantair Ghaeltachta laga nach bhfuil an Ghaelainn á labhairt iontu. Is ag caint ar a leithéid de choimisiún Gaeltachta eile a bhí sé seachas aon rud faoi leith maidir le tithíocht. Is léir go bhfuil pleanáil straitéiseach, córasach agus ceart ag teastáil ar bhonn Stáit don Ghaeltacht, do shláinte thithíocht na Gaeltachta agus gach aon rud mar sin. Tá mé cinnte go bhfuil na deiseanna ann ach beidh le feiceáil cad iad na gníomhaíochtaí a thógfar. Ba bhreá liom féin gníomh a fheiceáil. Ba bhreá liom dá ndéanfaí dul chun cinn ar na héilimh atá leagtha amach os comhair an choiste agus an Rialtais. Más féidir linn cabhrú le haon rud amach anseo, beidh muid an-sásta aon fhianaise, cabhair nó comhairle a thabhairt ina thaobh.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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While opening statements have already been sent in separately to this meeting, if the witnesses wish to send priority proposals to the clerk of the committee, we can discuss them when we are putting together our report. I wish to give the witnesses that opportunity. I thank the witnesses for coming here today and travelling from various parts of the country - all long distances - to give evidence. We apologise for the break-up of the meeting but that is just the way things happen here unfortunately, given the number of votes. I thank the witnesses for coming and giving their evidence. We have agreed that we will put together a report and send it to the Minister's office. If the witnesses could send in those recommendations over the Easter period, the committee would appreciate it. That now concludes the joint-----

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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On a practical note, it is important we get the report done. Therefore, to give the clerks clear guidance, I would make the report very light. We do not need a big summary of everything. The Minister and his team can look at the transcript. Maybe it is almost like a-----

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Recommendation.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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-----an extended letter with a very brief summary. I say that for the benefit of the clerk to the committee and his team. If we were able to get it agreed quickly after the recess, we can get those key recommendations to the Minister.

Some of us might suggest some of those by way of email to the clerks.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy.