Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Wednesday, 25 February 2026
Select Committee on Agriculture and Food
Estimates for Public Services 2026
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
2:00 am
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Members have the option of being physically present in the committee room or may join the meeting via MS Teams from their Leinster House offices. Members may not participate in the meeting from outside the parliamentary precincts. It is important to note that in order to participate in a division in committee, members must be physically present in the committee room. If joining on MS Teams, members should please mute their microphones when not contributing. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.
This meeting has been convened to consider the 2026 Revised Estimate for Vote 30 – Agriculture, Food and the Marine, which was referred to the committee by Dáil Éireann on 17 December 2025. I welcome the Minister, Deputy Martin Heydon, and his officials. He is joined by his officials: Mr. Gordon Conroy, assistant secretary; Ms Siobhán Dowling, principal officer; and Ms Karen Hanlon, assistant principal. They are all welcome.
Programme D, the seafood sector of Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine, comes within the remit of the Committee on Fisheries and Maritime Affairs. Arising from the change of remit, members are asked not to raise questions on programme D with the Minister. The relevant Minister will appear before the Select Committee on Fisheries and Maritime Affairs for the Revised Estimate on programme D.
The Minister may call on his officials to speak briefly or clarify during the meeting where specific or technical points are raised, and the officials can clarify issues for the committee. Any follow-up questions should be put to the Minister because he is the accountable person. The Minister's opening statement was forwarded to members. I invite him to give a brief synopsis before moving on to a question-and-answer session with members. I call the Minister.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Thank you. It is great to be here with colleagues to present the Revised Estimates for 2026 for the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. At the outset, I would like to take the opportunity to highlight the sector’s importance. It consists of 133,000 farms, 2,000 fishing vessels and over 2,000 food processing and production businesses.
The sector remains vital to Ireland’s economy, employing over 169,000 people and supporting €21 billion in exports.
In an increasingly globalised world, the Irish agrifood sector continues to be a world leader. All of this is underpinned and made possible by the work of those producing world-class raw materials. As Minister, it is my priority to ensure that the significant commitments outlined in the programme for Government are achieved over the lifetime of this Government. Budget 2026 demonstrates this Government’s strong commitment to the sector and provides the funding necessary to support rural and coastal communities and deliver on the ambitious programme for Government commitments.
The Revised Estimates, which the committee considers today, provide more detail on last October’s budget. This budget was directed at delivering substantial supports to continue the growth and expansion of the agrifood, forestry and fisheries sector. It includes substantial funding for my key priorities of reducing bovine TB, maintaining the nitrates derogation, encouraging generational renewal and supporting the tillage and livestock sectors.
For 2026, the total Exchequer contribution to the Vote of my Department amounts to €2.316 billion, comprising €1.98 billion in current expenditure and €336 million in capital expenditure. The capital allocation excludes an additional €29 million carry-over from 2025. When appropriations-in-aid are considered, the 2026 net Vote is estimated at €1.817 billion. The Agriculture Vote is subdivided into four expenditure programmes corresponding to the four key strategic objectives set out in my Department’s current statement of strategy. I will speak about three of these four programmes in turn. My colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Dooley, is presenting programme D, covering the seafood sector, to the Select Committee on Fisheries and Maritime Affairs this evening.
Programme A relates to food safety, animal and plant health and animal welfare. The total budget 2026 allocation for programme A is €514 million. Irish farmers, fishers and agrifood companies produce world-class food to the highest international standards of safety and quality. Robust food safety and traceability systems are critical in supporting worldwide exports. I am continuing to fund vital services to ensure those standards are maintained. I am on record as stating that tackling TB is a key priority for me as Minister. I have secured an increased allocation of €85 million for TB in 2026, providing a total budget of €157 million. This additional funding is vital in delivering on the TB action plan which I agreed with all stakeholders last September. The 2026 budget allocation will support and enable farm families who are currently dealing with the stress of a bovine TB outbreak to navigate a way out of a bovine TB restriction and protect those herds currently free from bovine TB from the stress of an outbreak. My goal is to drive down current TB rates to a level where we will be able to, once again, focus on its eradication.
Programme B is for farm sector supports and controls. Funding under programme B provides income and targeted supports of €1.152 billion, which will be paid almost exclusively to farmers. This is in addition to EU funding of €1.2 billion, which will be paid to approximately 125,000 farmers in respect of the various direct payment schemes. I will now highlight the key programme B funding elements. I have increased the allocation for the €1.5 billion ACRES scheme by €20 million, bringing the total scheme allocation to €280 million in 2026. When I was appointed Minister, I made it clear that resolving ACRES-related payment issues was a key priority for me. I am pleased to confirm that this has been achieved, with a total of €750 million paid to ACRES participants to date. At this stage, all eligible participants have been paid in respect of 2023 and 2024, while over 96% of all participants have already been paid for 2025. A further €131 million has been allocated to livestock schemes in recognition of the importance of the drystock sector. I will also continue to fund the national genotyping programme, thereby supporting my aim of genotyping the entire national bovine herd. These targeted supports for beef, sheep and suckler farmers will assist farm incomes and support farmers as they adopt efficiency measures to enhance economic and environmental sustainability.
Programme B also includes forestry, with an allocation of €93 million in 2026. This is a 5.7% increase on the 2025 allocation. This funding includes support for a forestry reconstitution scheme for windblown sites, the introduction of which was a key priority for both the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Healy-Rae, and me. Some €88 million has been allocated to the TAMS capital investment scheme for 2026, representing another a significant increase on 2025 funding levels. TAMS supports competitiveness on Irish farms, promotes generational renewal and funds important investments such as slurry storage, which will be critical for improving water quality. Farmer demand for the scheme remains strong so the €88 million allocation will require careful management.
The tillage sector in Ireland continues to face significant challenges, including competition for land and high input costs. Maintaining the current tillage area is vital not only for the agricultural sector, but also for the wider economy and the environment. Sustaining and expanding the tillage area is a key objective of both the programme for Government and the Climate Action Plan. This plan sets an indicative target of 400,000 ha of tillage by 2030. Achieving this ambition would require an increase of approximately 65,000 ha of tillage between 2027 and 2030. The Leas-Chathaoirleach and I both know that is a really challenging figure for us to reach. In recognition of these challenges, I have provided €30 million to fund a targeted sustainability payment. In 2026 tillage farmers will also benefit by a further €20 million through supports provided under the straw incorporation and protein aid schemes. Together, these measures represent a comprehensive package of supports that will strengthen tillage farm incomes and provide a solid foundation to safeguard the future of tillage farming in Ireland.
Programme C supports the sustainable development of the agrifood sector. The allocation of over €470 million under programme C reflects my Department’s comprehensive approach to addressing the challenges involved in achieving sustainable growth across the agrifood sector. As committee members are aware, the global trading environment remains unpredictable. Bord Bia plays an important role in helping to grow our agrifood exports by promoting the safety, quality and sustainability of the food and drink produced by our farmers. Budget 2026 provides funding of €60 million for Bord Bia to strengthen trade promotion and support further market diversification, thereby ensuring Ireland continues to build on its strong export performance.
Funding totalling €175 million will be provided to Teagasc for research, advisory and education services. This investment will strengthen farm productivity and sustainability, thereby supporting a competitive and resilient agrifood sector. As committee members are aware, the Agri-Food Regulator was established as an independent state agency in December 2024 to promote fairness and transparency in the food supply chain. In December 2025, I signed new regulations fulfilling the programme for Government commitment to confer on the Agri-Food Regulator enhanced powers to compel price and market information from businesses to deliver additional transparency in the agrifood supply chain. The additional powers confer a number of additional responsibilities on the regulator which it must fulfil in advance of releasing reports, and these include compelled information. In order to service these responsibilities, the regulator was granted sanction for an additional five staff from 2026. This staff sanction includes specific expert roles in both legal services and economics. In recognition of these increased powers, I have provided funding of €3.2 million in budget 2026, representing a substantial increase on 2025 funding. We will also provide €35 million to the UN World Food Programme for early payment as part of the 2025-27 strategic partnership agreement. The 2026 payment was made in January, following a request from the World Food Programme, and will support WFP in its vital work to provide emergency food assistance to those who need it most throughout the world.
Finally, under programme C, over €19 million is dedicated to funding research and development. This funding will drive even greater innovation and development of new technologies for the agriculture, food, forestry and bioeconomy sectors. This is something on which I have worked closely with the Minister of State, Deputy Grealish.
I have provided a brief overview of the 2026 budget measures to support the agrifood sector. I am satisfied that the allocation delivers a balanced package of supports for farmers, fishers, coastal communities and the wider agrifood sector. It also demonstrates the Government’s strong and continued commitment to Ireland’s most important indigenous industry. I look forward to answering any questions committee members have.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
As there are only six members here, I propose we give everyone ten minutes each. Is everyone happy with that? Agreed.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank the Minister for his very comprehensive report. I will start with the positives. To have €21 billion of exports, up from €19 billion last year, shows the strength of the export industry on the agriculture side. That 10% of overall exports are through agriculture is huge. With 170,000 people working in the sector, it is hugely important, particularly in rural Ireland, that we continue to have a vibrant agricultural sector which we do.
I have some quick questions and I will flip-flop between the different areas in programmes A, B and C as well as the priorities for 2026. First, on TB, there is a significant increase in funding. Page 6 of the brief, which includes section 3 in the programme overview, shows that the 2025 Supplementary Estimate was €136 million and the Revised Estimate is €158 million. Is it likely that we might need more again later in the year on top of that?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
As I said, bovine TB is my number one priority. The Revised Estimates for 2025 were €73.5 million and that did not go anywhere near what was provided for last year. I had to get additional money to get us up to €136.5 million to cover the costs of that.
We know the exponential growth there has been and the profiling of the disease. While it has backtracked somewhat, this is a dynamic disease and it is acting differently. All our modelling told us we needed €157 million for this year. We have seen a reduction in the number of bovine TB cases, both herd incidence and reactor numbers, and that is a positive. I think a contributing factor to that has been the discussions in public about farmers who are buying cattle being aware of the risk categorisation of what they are buying but, obviously, we will not know for sure how the measures kick in until they are all in place. We know that from April onwards a lot of them will come in together, and I have a big plan of communication across the month of March for farmers ahead of that. What we have asked for should meet our requirements. As I said, this is a dynamic disease but our modelling has been relatively accurate to date.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I acknowledge the significant increase in investment. The Minister highlighted here last summer or maybe last September the need for additional funding. I acknowledge that.
I acknowledge also the huge progress that has been made on the ACRES side of things in terms of funding being paid out. I know that almost all eligible applicants have been paid in respect of 2023 and 2024 and 96% of all participants have been paid for 2025. What is that in numbers? What do we have outstanding? I know the cases that are left are complex but in terms of 2023 and then 2024 and 2025, what kind of numbers are left with payments outstanding for ACRES?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will get the Deputy the exact numbers now. In general, we have about 54,000 farmers, off the top of my head. It is better for the number not to be off the top of my head. I have the figures to hand. The percentage is there. In numbers, approximately 2,000 farmers are what is outstanding. We have about 54,000 farmers in ACRES, which is now back operating like any normal agri-environmental scheme, like REPS, GLAS or AEOS, like they did in the past. There will always be 2% or 3% or up to below 5% where, for a variety of reasons, generally on the farmer's side, there are issues. Where somebody dies there is probate and there are land title changes. Partnerships can sometimes run into some difficulties in that space. We work with them on a case-by-base basis. We will never have 100% of people paid. I think we still have some people in the budget who get paid for GLAS every year because it took them that long to fix whatever the issue was for them but this should be compared with where we were last year. I recognise the support of the Minister, Deputy Chambers, in allocating an extra €20 million to me to make €280 million for ACRES for this year. A bit like the TB money for last year, it was under profile for the year. I did not have enough to meet the commitments I wanted to meet. The Minister, Deputy Chambers, worked with me on that, which I recognise. We all, across the Government, recognise the value of ACRES. The big figure from my opening address is €750 million paid out to farmers since 2023, three quarters of a billion euro paid to farmers who have all put their hand up for a higher environmental ambition. It really is a success story. I am delighted that money has gone in there and delighted I have been able to work with colleagues. I recognise the work with officials and the patience of colleagues on this committee because I know it was hard when farmers were not getting paid and had signed up to a contract and were not getting that money on time. That was really hard for everybody. I asked for time and patience to be able to fix the problems once and for all. I recognise that that was done. That now allows us to focus on the really positive contribution our farmers are making and to right the wrongs that happened to our farmers. I am very glad to have been able to do that.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is interesting the Minister brings it up because three quarters of a billion, when you say it like that, over a three-year period is a phenomenal amount of money.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
And that is into the heart of rural Ireland, and the Deputy knows the multiplier effect with farmers in Kilkenny, Kildare or anywhere else. That money feeds into-----
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Absolutely, and the whole rural economy benefits. You can nearly directly link that into the fact that our exports have increased from €19 billion last year to €21 billion this year, notwithstanding all the rural benefits in terms of the local economy, etc., as well.
I know that €88 million has been allocated for TAMS for 2026. That is hugely beneficial to farmers right around the country. In terms of the timelines on TAMS at the moment, what kind of a turnaround time do we have in terms of an application going in, getting approval and getting over the line?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The challenges we have around TAMS are demand. It is a demand-led scheme. Under TAMS II, the most regular number of applications for a tranche was about 3,000. For the most recent tranche of TAMS, we have over 8,000 applications. That is off the charts in terms of farmers' demand. It is not hugely surprising if you consider the very positive income that some sectors of agriculture had last year. As farmers are profiling what tax bills might look like, it can encourage them to have more capital expenditure rather than giving it to the taxman. That can encourage them to look at grants where maybe they did not in the past. I have got an increase in funding for TAMS. We had €88 million. It is really positive but I have had to introduce ranking and selection to make sure that that funding is targeted at my key priorities. I have a very clear view: if everything is a priority, nothing is a priority. When pressure comes on by an increased number of applications for this funding, we need to make sure that TAMS is delivering for the key targeted measures. Talking about issues like generational renewal and other challenges, I do not think there is a better programme than TAMS for investment in that. There are a lot of things we spend money on, whether livestock schemes or whatever else, and it is one year, the money is in and it is gone. TAMS is in either equipment or a building that is there for years to come.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Yes, and TAMS is hugely successful. It is just that I have had a good few people on to me who have applied, they are really positive schemes, but they want to get going and get-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I would love to be able to get it done more quickly but it literally is the number of applications we are getting.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In terms of the key priorities for 2026, the Minister spoke in his address about the EU Presidency and the importance of an effective delivery for all Departments. Have we much of an agriculture-specific budget put aside or is it just more of the generic pot in terms of the EU Presidency and the importance of agriculture and CAP 2027, in particular, in that regard?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We do indeed. There are a number of different elements to this. The headline figure we would have for addressing contingency costs around the Presidency would be about €3.4 million. It is a huge honour, a huge responsibility and a great opportunity for Ireland. I will have the presidency of the AGRIFISH Council from July. The total estimated cost arising to the Department in respect of the Presidency is €3.317 million. That represents the Department's own Presidency costs only. It does not include expenditure incurred by other Departments or by An Garda Síochána. Obviously, there are a lot of elements to that, there are a lot of staffing implications beyond-----
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
If we can get an improved CAP on the back of that €3.3 million, it is money absolutely well spent. I know there is huge work going on behind the scenes in that regard as well.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is obviously a great opportunity for Ireland to strengthen its relations with EU colleagues. I am having bilaterals every month in Brussels, as I did last Monday with the new Czech Minister of Agriculture, explaining our priorities, understanding their priorities and being an honest broker during that period. It is a great opportunity for Ireland to put its best foot forward, and we have allowed for contingency for that.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have one last question if that is okay. Another priority is the integration and prioritisation of farmer safety, health and well-being in all Department initiatives. What financial supports are there for those couple of areas, namely farmer safety and, in particular, health and well-being, for 2026?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I was delighted in the budget, working with the Minister of State, Deputy Healy-Rae, to be able to increase the allocation. This is an area I feel passionate about. I was the first dedicated Minister of State with responsibility for farm safety and farmer mental health and well-being. With the Minister of State, Deputy Healy-Rae, taking on that responsibility now in his role with forestry and organics, I was able to increase the allocation of the budget. The first stand-alone budget was in my time at €2.5 million and we increased that to €3 million for 2026. I am working from memory on that one but that is what it was. That is in light of the fact that we had a really bad year last year. There is no good year, and one death on our farms is one too many, but we went back to very high numbers last year. That was really disappointing and devastating for the individual farmers, their families and the communities affected. Ultimately, at its heart, as regards the work we all have to do collectively, I look forward, Chair, to working with the committee on this and supporting the Minister of State, Deputy Healy-Rae, in these efforts. We have a poor attitude to risk in farming. I know it myself from home. You take a chance. I grew up where you see neighbours take chances and you hear older farmers speak about close calls nearly like a badge of honour. There is no other profession where close calls or near misses, where somebody could have been seriously injured or killed, is laughed off or shrugged off, yet in agriculture it is. Some things are more socially unacceptable now than they used to be, thankfully. I am 47 years of age and I and my cousin climbed the top of a very large load of bales, going back after pitching them all up.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister is only 47, is he?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
My uncle brought us back. It is fair to say that if a farmer were seen to be doing that now, with kids on top of a very large load of bales, he would probably be locked up. My uncle was not locked up at the time because back in the eighties that was acceptable. There are certain things like that but we have to strive much harder.
The practice of farmers putting ladders to the sides of sheds and not having someone at the bottom to hold it is completely unacceptable. The number of deaths and serious injuries from falls from heights we have had is bad. There are measures for quads and other matters. We need to work together to address that issue. The extra funding is to support a number of initiatives that are in place to promote farm safety.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank the Minister.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank the Minister for his opening statement and the programme he has set out here. Regarding the bovine TB eradication programme, I know the Minister has placed additional money in it but one of the big issues for farmers is that the level of compensation they receive when they have animals that go down does not match what it costs to replace those animals. It is at 30%, 40%, or maybe 50% below what farmers are able to get from the scheme when they go to the mart to try to replace them. Is there anything to be done in respect of that? If there is, it would put a greater strain on this budget, so is there any way of increasing the budget in that respect?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The figures for bovine TB speak for themselves. A total of €157 million, or €158 million when capital allocation is included, is a record sum of money that any Minister for agriculture has ever secured to tackle this issue. To put that figure into context, in 2019 the total spend for the TB eradication programme by my Department was only €37.5 million. That is the scale of growth. It is off the charts. Everything I do with my new TB programme and all the extra resources I have is aimed at driving it down.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I set that context because it is important.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am not disputing that.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have been asked whether I have enough money. Is there ever enough money? I would love to be able to pay every single farmer every bit of compensation but there is a scheme that was agreed to previously that has a cap on it. At that time, there probably was not an expectation that beef prices would reach what they are. I cannot make commitments to pay money beyond what I have. I have to manage my budget where I am.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Is there an opportunity to review that?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I would hope to be able to look at that down the line and see how my budget is managed.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It should at least reflect the market, in fairness.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
If I can, I will, but ultimately I have to make sure that the money I have is targeted at making sure fewer farmers are impacted by bovine TB in the future, that fewer herds go down, and therefore fewer farmers are impacted by the stress and strain of an outbreak and of having a reactor. That is where I am spending the money. We know that in the next two years, that will lead to a spike in reactors, although not necessarily in the number of herds impacted, with a serious decline afterwards. I would love to be able the issue of the caps.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That means that more farmers will be shortchanged when it comes to getting compensation.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Not necessarily. A small percentage of farmers' valuations exceeded the cap but for those impacted, it is serious. I accept that. I keep it under constant review. I would love to be able to manage it. I gave commitments in my negotiations for the budget with the Department of public expenditure that the extra money would be targeted at driving down the instances of the disease. That is where my focus has remained while I keep everything else under review.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
To move on to the schemes, I welcome the additional money. I see the animal welfare for sheep improvement scheme has gone up considerably from €20 million to €42 million, which is a 110% increase at a time when farmers are getting less per head per animal and when we have fewer sheep in the country. What is the rationale for that?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is an accounting exercise. The increase in subhead B8 is due to the movement of the sheep improvement scheme from subhead B12, so the Deputy will see that subhead B12 has a 98% reduction.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We see a big decrease in subhead B3, the agri-environmental scheme. What is that?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That decrease in subhead B3 is due to the completion of the European Union recovery instrument, EURI, funding for TAMS and organic farming. EURI was rural development programme funding that was time-limited. That ran out last year. Once that ended, that is not there for 2026, unfortunately.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister mentioned TAMS. I appreciate there is greater demand for it and more farmers are applying for stuff that is eligible under TAMS. An issue which was raised recently, which there was "Prime Time" programme about and which I am sure the Minister is aware of, is the number of farmers impacted by robberies, theft on farms, and so on. Farmers are investing in security measures like cameras. Is there an opportunity or possibility of including some of that under TAMS because it is a cost for farmers?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We keep under review the items under TAMS. Part of the challenge with TAMS and the level of demand for it is how wide it has gone, how much equipment and different measures cover that. They all have very genuine cases to make. On the earlier question on farm safety, I was proud to be the Minister who fought for and got a whole subhead for farm safety measures. There was really significant interest from farmers. There are relatively lower sums of money, cost-wise, per farmer, for the farm safety measures but they are making really significant safety improvements on animal handling facilities and so on. Measures like that are good but I am conscious that, in a time where we have demand exceeding supply, if it is broadened further to more measures, it puts even more pressure on a budget there. We need to use TAMS to drive key measures and priorities, like the increased slurry and nutrient storage for our derogation farmers, so they can meet the commitments they have. I keep it under review. The biggest thing that struck me from the "Prime Time" programme was farmers not reporting this because they felt it was not worthwhile reporting it to gardaí. On the equipment side, I know the community gardaí in Kildare are really proactive about the branding and putting the serial numbers in a hidden spot on the machine so it can be retrieved afterwards. Not enough farmers are doing it. There are measures we can take ourselves with what we have. I made the changes to TAMS last year to replace roofs following Storm Éowyn and the storm damage. I am always open to new ideas around TAMS.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I encourage that it be considered because it has a big impact on farmers.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is a fair point and I will take that on board.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Bord Bia is in the headlines all the time. There is an increase in funding there and to Teagasc. In the context of where we are right now, I was at the meeting last night in the Minister's home parish. There is huge anger and frustration among the farming community. It is because they see that the system which they are compelled to comply with is being undermined and they are not satisfied and will not be satisfied. I know the Minister might say this will wear away. It will not wear away. These farmers are not satisfied with the situation and will not back down in respect of this. The IFA presented a proposal. It is time to find a way of agreeing to that proposal that will get everybody out of this trap, because ultimately it is not good for agriculture or for anybody else. It is particularly not good for the reputation of Ireland and Bord Bia that we are in this controversy.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I agree with the Deputy on his latter point that this is not good for the sector. It is not in anyone's interest that there is an ongoing dispute about this. To be clear, I have never said that I think the dispute will wear away. I respect people's right to be upset about things. I respect people's right to protest about them. I have a fundamental view that trade deals like the one at the heart of this issue initially are absolutely in Irish farmers' best interests. I will continue to articulate that. I have no doubt that every farmer-----
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Does the Minister think that Mercosur is in the best interests of Irish farmers?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Every meeting with farmers that I have in the next four years as Minister for agriculture-----
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister is after saying that Mercosur is in the best interests of Irish farmers.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I did not say Mercosur. I said the trade deal at the heart of this, which is the Dawn Farm Foods deal, where there is reference to less than 1% coming from Latin America, and deals like that, are absolutely in farmers' best interests because the vast majority of the meat protein used by that secondary meat processor is Irish farmer produce. If Irish food companies do not do those deals, other non-Irish companies will and they will not buy any Irish farmers' produce. I will not rehash that argument. I am not discounting people's upset. I am not surprised that they are upset. They are dealing in soundbites rather than detail. I would love the opportunity to be able to debate it properly in a calm setting. On the point the Deputy made about proposals I made, I have had contact and continue to have dialogue and contact with the IFA and other farming organisations which have challenges in this space. We are considering and are making a counterproposal to the proposals put down by the IFA and I hope we can come to a resolution here. It takes all sides to want a resolution. That is necessary.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am absolutely up for that. I have been clear and the Oireachtas has been clear in its vote-----
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Farmers and the rural community want a solution. The only place where we see an absolute no is from the Minister and Government, that they will not remove this person from his role.
That is the difference.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Hold on now, the Deputy is on about a resolution-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Sorry, Minister, I do not mean to interrupt you but we are talking about the increased funding for Bord Bia, to be fair.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have let it go on for a good bit.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will just finish-----
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The integrity of Bord Bia is at stake here. The Minister can increase the funding by ten times what is on the piece of paper here and he will not restore that integrity until he removes the chair.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is a very narrow view and I disagree with it.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Well, it is true. I went in there last night.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
If I can, Vice Chair, make a final comment on it, I see a pathway to being able to resolve this and work on some of farmers' issues that have been raised about the experience of dealing with Bord Bia and beyond. There is a pathway to a resolution here if everybody wants that and I will not be an impediment to that. I want to work with people as far as we can.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank the Minister and his team for coming in and for the opening statement. Going back to TB, he has made a lot of inroads. He has investment of €85 million going in on top of the existing budget. That is fabulous money. He might outline where he intends spending that money. Is there any way he could look at increased compensation for farmers whose cattle go down with TB and who are losing out heavily with costs?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I recognise Deputy Cooney has raised this on a number of occasions with me. There are a number of farmers in Clare who have come to him who have been impacted by the cap on compensation. It is, as I have outlined here, something I would like to be able to address in time. I am keeping it under close review, but, as the Deputy can see from this Estimates process, I and my team have a very important job to do to manage the money we have and to ensure it is targeted at doing what it needs to do, which is driving down the incidence of bovine TB in the first place and making sure there are targeted measures there in a whole host of areas. I am not in a position to change the caps on compensation but it is something I keep under close review and I would like to be able to do it in future.
On the overall approach, I launched my new bovine TB plan last September. It has five key pillars with 30 clear actions. Those measures were critical to me securing the additional money in the budget. I would not have got if I had not got a new plan. A lot of those measures are going to come together in April and I have made that quite clear. I want to communicate very clearly with farmers over the month of March what those measures and changes will be like. I did not want a drip feed of changes. Some of these interventions involve changes to the AIM system, which is our animal monitoring system and very important. Those changes have to be well planned for. We need to make sure when we are integrating the new TB elements into the AIM system the whole system does not collapse because farmers need that on a daily basis. There are a range of measures and changes to do with wildlife which we have been continuing to work on. We have a lot of progress made on the implementation of the plan that was launched last September. Some of those farmer-facing measures will become live and real in April and I am going to communicate them very clearly in the coming month so there are no surprises for farmers.
This is a very challenging space. Look at the scale of the money we are talking about and the incidence. We do not have one intervention that can stop the spread of this disease. It takes the layering of a number of different interventions based on science. In the short term, it will lead to an increase in the amount of reactors we are going to have but after two years we will see a plateau and a reduction in the amount of reactors. However, we have to find the increased reactors earlier because right now they are going undetected in herds, being sold to other farms - to low-risk farms - and are seeding the disease. By reducing this we will have fewer farmers impacted in future and then we will be able to put the resources I have here into greater focus and have fewer farmers impacted. That is when we can start talking about eradication again in a very serious way.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I can see where the Minister is coming from and, as I have said already, he is doing fantastic work but we have to think of the unfortunate farmers whose animals are going down with TB. We need to look at the payments to see if they can be increased if more funding comes into place. TB is going to be hard to get rid of. It is going to be there. The Minister is doing a fantastic job trying to root it out completely, if possible, but we need to think of the farmers who are losing heavily when their cattle go down.
Programme B deals with forestry and there is an allocation of €93 million for 2026, which is an increase of almost 6%. That is a fabulous increase and again we are well aware of what happened with Storm Éowyn last January and the number of trees that came down. We are well aware of what is happening in forestry. There is fantastic work being done. However, there is an issue we need to start taking seriously and it is ash dieback disease. As recently as two weeks ago, two parents were travelling to a school. One was 200 m in front of the other and arrived at the school but there was no sign of the second car. The reason it did not arrive was a tree with ash dieback came straight down on road and hit the front of her car. That held her up and the other parent panicked because they did not know what had happened. Unfortunately it hit the car. There was no wind. It was a calm morning. I am asking what we can do to support farmers with roadsides where there are serious with trees with ash dieback. It is getting worse. The trees are getting into a worse condition and there is going to be a serious accident if we do not support landowners and farmers to take these trees down. I call on the Minister, as I have called on the Minister of State, Deputy Healy-Rae, to bring in an LIS through local authorities to help landowners take down these trees going forward.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy references a very serious incident. It is why you see a lot of farmers with roadside trees that are looking undermined and they are having them checked. You see many farmers taking those trees down and getting in professionals to do so. Obviously we all have public liability insurance - I have a farm at home - and we all have concerns about trees in roadside hedges. If there was to be a Government intervention on that there is certainly no capacity in our forestry budget for it. This is a road safety issue as well so the Department of Transport will have to play a role there. First and foremost, the responsibility lies with the landowner in that instance.
We have the €85 million fund for the ash dieback plantations. That has seen very significant drawdown. The Minister of State, Deputy Healy-Rae, is leading on that but it is not for individual roadside trees but ash dieback-affected plantations. There are some in Clare that I visited when I was a Minister of State. It is about getting those reconstituted and in. That scheme is not going to change. That scheme is there and it will not last forever so I encourage farmers who have plantations impacted by ash dieback to avail of that while it is there. From the perspective of the forestry budget we are not in a position to fund the taking down of roadside trees. That would be a really massive undertaking to commit to over the whole country. You would be talking about billions.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
You would be talking about billions but we have to think about road safety and-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We do, and road safety is important responsibility for-----
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----these trees were affected totally outside the control of the landowners. They had nothing whatsoever to do with it but unfortunately trees are now in this sort of condition. I am calling for us to look at some scheme that can start to take down the large trees and also the ones on the regional roads, which are very dangerous. Year by year you can see them get more affected. A lot of them are going to come down in future with storms. Could we not look at a scheme through local authorities that would help landowners, even with traffic management plans and whatever, when taking down these trees?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There is absolutely merit in what the Deputy is proposing. The question is where the funding would come from for that and who would administer it. Would it be the Department of Transport or the Department of housing, which has responsibility for local authorities? I am not passing the buck here. I understand exactly the point the Deputy is making while I am making it very clear we should look at the level of forestry. We have had increased plantations. That 6% is because we had increased plantations last year. There is not capacity within the forestry programme to fund something like that.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I thank the Minister. On the ACRES, I compliment him on the great work he did when he took over as Minister in February last year. Fantastic work has been done on it. Where does he expect the increased funding for the ACRES to be put?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
You do not need to be a mathematical genius to figure out a €1.5 billion programme over five years would require €300 million a year if it was all flowing equally. That is not how expenditure profiles work with the agri-environmental scheme so it was below profile. When I became Minister last year, there was not enough money allocated to ACRES to cover what the commitments were.
I received a supplementary top-up of €35 million to bring it up from €260 million to €295 million. The increase of the €20 million on my base of €260 million to €280 million is very much welcome for this year. That will allow us to meet all of our contractual obligations in respect of farmers who signed up to ACRES. Since 2023, €750 million has been paid under ACRES to farmers who volunteered to meet the higher level of environmental conditionality. This is a great news story, with the Government supporting the rural communities in which those farmers live.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
As regards the ACRES payments, I again call on the Minister to make sure they are paid on time when farmers have submitted their applications and it is apparent that everything is above board, as happened last year. Can the same thing be done this year?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Absolutely. The commitment I gave here last year recognised the points raised by the Deputy and colleagues the context of specific cases relating to constituents and farmers on ACRES in Clare and beyond who were affected. The commitment I gave when we were looking for time to fix the structural issues we had with the payment system was to the effect that the problems would not recur and the interventions would be once-off in nature. We needed time to do that. ACRES is up and running normally like other schemes. It is a significant scheme. There is a huge amount of work involved. The score cards are a very big undertaking, and the advisory role is significant in respect of farms. Farmers are doing a huge amount of work. In addition, there is a lot of inputting of data by the Department. The scheme is operating really well. I can confirm that all 2023 and 2024 applicants have been paid. The vast majority, over 96%, of those who applied in 2025 have been paid as well.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister said he has an extra €85 million for TB for this year. The figures do not add up. They do not show that there is €85 million extra in this regard. The figure for last year was €136 million. The amount in the Revised Estimate for this year is €158 million. Where exactly is that figure, or am I calculating something wrong?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy is right; the figures did not add up last year. When I became Minister on 23 January 2025, the amount of money allocated in the previous budget for last year in respect of bovine TB was €73.5 million. That was nowhere near what I needed. I needed €136.5 million to meet all the cost requirements. TB is a dynamic disease that operates on a much different level, scale and trajectory. The key driver for me involved taking the lead, pushing farm organisations on the need for a change of approach and, ultimately, developing my new TB programme. There was a supplementary increase which I needed last year to bridge the gap from €73.5 million to €136.5 million. On top of that are the requirements for this year. The difference between what was needed for 2025----
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I got the figures there. Has all that money from last year been spent?
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Is there any outstanding compensation?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Not from last year - not by the end of February, I would think. There is a processing time that applies.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Yes. Cattle have to be assessed and then the details are submitted.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It depends on whether the farmer accepts the initial valuation.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Is that figure index-linked? Farmers have been saying that they have not been getting the value of their animals.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The vast majority are, but there is a cap. That was in the scheme that I inherited and I have not been in a position to move on it. Originally, the cap was not an issue because beef prices were not as high as they are now. With the rise in beef prices, there is a small percentage of farmers whose valuation of their animals has exceeded the cap, so they have been paid to the maximum caps of €3,000 and €5,000. That has been an issue for a small number of farmers. For those affected, it is a big issue. I will keep the matter under review. I do not have extra----
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Do a lot of the cases relate to a particular category of animals?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
A small percentage of them are pedigree animals.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Is moving the cap being looked at?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I do not have extra capacity in my budget. The money I got allocated last year, in respect of which I negotiated with the Minister for public expenditure, Deputy Chambers, and his Department was for the new TB programme and for the extra measures I am putting in place. Those measures include additional staff for wildlife control and action across the five pillars, including biosecurity supports for farmers and a range of other things. All of those things involve a cost. That is where the money is. Compensation is a really significant driver of the cost of this. The more incidents we have, the higher the cost of the payout in terms of compensation.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Does the Minister have costings in respect of that €85 million?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The €85 million was the additional amount last year. The total figure for this year is just over €158.3 million. There is a detailed breakdown in respect of that. We would not get it from the Department of public expenditure, with respect, without having a very detailed plan as to how we are going to spend it under the five headings and 30 actions across my bovine TB plan. A key driver of that is the modelling of how many reactors we anticipate there will be. It is not an exact science; it is modelling. The number of reactors we will have determines how much compensation we will need to be able to pay. We have to have an idea of the figure.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
On nitrates and the roll-out of the sixth nitrates action plan, is there extra money? With the nitrates derogation, there will be new actions needed. What new schemes are going to go in there, or are there any?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We discussed TAMS earlier, and there are support measures there.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am talking about new ones. Is there anything new that is going to have to come out of it that will be in TAMS?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What would we need something new for?
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In the context of the extra storage, for example.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is what TAMS provides for.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Are there any new actions that farmers will have to take in the context of the new derogations? Will there be a scheme under TAMS?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Not much that has a budgetary impact here in terms of my Revised Estimates. Agreeing and getting the nitrates derogation extension over the line for three years was absolutely critical for our farming sector, and a really good result. We agreed to a new conditionality under the sixth nitrates action programme. The nitrates action programme is the bedrock and foundation on which we make our application for the nitrates derogation. Within that, there are a number of changes in conditionality. However, many will not kick in until 2028. The TAMS programme is there to support farmers, particularly in the area of nutrient storage.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
On animal welfare, I am looking at equine welfare and traceability. What new money is being put into that? It seems that not a whole lot has been done in relation to it. I would imagine the Minister would need-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Does the Deputy have the subhead number? I do not have it to hand. Which programme is it?
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It would be subhead C, other equine supports, would it not? As I said to the Minister earlier, I can see equine welfare being a massive issue. There is nowhere to bring animals when-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy is talking about C12.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
C12, under programme C - other equine supports - relates to allocations towards the Irish Equine Centre which does phenomenal work and is based in Kill, County Kildare.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They are doing the traceability, but I am more talking about the animal welfare. I spoke to the Minister previously about the issue of animals basically being left. There is nowhere to bring them. If you bring an animal to slaughter or whatever, the cost is €120 per animal. They are being left in fields rather than being brought somewhere to be disposed of correctly.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I understand what the Deputy is asking about in the context of end of life on the equine side. On the other matters, there is a 10% increase in respect of C12. That is necessary because it is mandatory for Horse Sport Ireland and Irish horse sport to charge VAT on the delivery of their respective contracts. That was an additional allocation for them. Animal welfare in general comes under A3, which is the food safety, animal and plant health and animal welfare element. That is seeing a slight reduction due to no capital allocation being needed this year for the Control of Dogs Act. There was extra money last year for the transfer of the control of dogs from the Department of rural affairs to the Department of agriculture, something I fought for in the programme for Government talks and am delighted to have there.
In terms of end-of-life care, we have a report from Professor Patrick Wall that contains 22 clear actions around equine challenges that had been raised in the equine sector around welfare. Many of the issues that arose were in the area of traceability and beyond. In the natural scheme of things, we will need an end-of-life facility to make sure that outlet is there. The one that was there previously did not have a massive throughput. As a result, there is a challenge around the economic viability of such a facility. The Department of agriculture does not own or run any abattoirs for beef, sheep or anything else, but we manage and licence them and make sure they operate to the highest standards. We are involved in detailed engagement with interested partners who would look at providing an end-of-life facility for equines. That is something I envisage. As the Deputy will be aware, plenty of people in the industry would be supportive of this.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is badly needed.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Yes. However, it will be a commercial decision for people to go in under licence from the Department. We would work with them on that. That is something we want to have in place. We continue to work on it, but it is not something that would be directly run by my Department.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
For the Agri-Food Regulator, there is just over €1.2 million. On the basis of what I can see, that is for five staff who are experts in legal services and economics. Is the extra money for those five staff?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Yes.. It is for additional staff and the additional administrative requirements around the extra powers.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is not for extra inspectors on the ground. We need more inspectors.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The work of the Agri-Food Regulator is to seek information. The reason it requires additional information is that some retailers did not share information regarding a report on the egg market and other reports it compiled. We did not spend a lot of time and energy in these Houses and taxpayers' money on establishing a regulator only for it not to get the answers it needs. We have increased the powers of compellability. With that comes a lot of responsibility. We have to get the balance right, particularly to ensure that smaller food businesses do not have onerous amounts of information and data-----
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Some of these are big companies.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Exactly. Some of them are big. Some of the bigger retailers are the ones that did not come back with information.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They seem to be getting away with it time and time again.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Absolutely not. That is where the extra powers come into play. I am making the point that those powers come with significant responsibility. The Agri-Food Regulator now has additional staff to allow it to manage that extra responsibility.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I welcome the Minister. If a dairy calf, a Charolais or a Limousin is worth €600 or €700 in the marts at the moment, a calf from a suckler must be worth a few hundred more.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Is that what they are giving for them?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Do not be buying and selling there, lads.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I do not see anything extra under BVD. My understanding of the BVD scheme is that a farmer, regardless of whether the animal is from the dairy herd or the suckler herd, gets something over €200. Is there any extra money to give to those farmers? Bear in mind, if you are a suckler farmer, you will have nothing left if your calf has to go to the knacker.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
On BVD, the challenges we have and the great efforts we have made in recent years to drive that down, our funding allocation for that goes through Animal Health Ireland, AHI, in the context of the provision of supports in that space. I met with AHI previously. There are a number of different priorities AHI has; it is not just BVD. There are a lot of nasty diseases out there that we are working with AHI on in the context of supporting the efforts that it is making and that can have an impact on production and on value. When there is €157 million going towards bovine TB, I have to make choices and decisions around where we put resources to try to drive down incidences as well. The supports will continue to be funded through Animal Health Ireland for BVD. The additional money I have got has been put into bovine TB.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Does the Minister have any increase for those farmers, yes or no? What they are getting for calves with BVD is an insult.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No. As of now, there is not. I do not have the figure to hand for the Animal Health Ireland allocation. In terms of the BVD scheme, the answer is "No". My point is that we just had bluetongue and we had avian influenza prior to that. There is a limited amount of money that I have to manage-----
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In fairness, a farmer whose calf gets BVD is as badly affected as somebody who gets-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Yes, and we have made progress and are funding supports in that space. In fairness, however, we have over 37,000 reactors for bovine TB. That is devastating. I have to manage the allocations I have, and I am putting extra resources into the bovine TB aspect for a plan that will drive down incidences of the disease in the future.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister has already commented on this, so I do not need him to comment again. I echo what Deputies Cooney and Kenny said. Under the TB compensation scheme, if a farmer has a pedigree heifer and she is not in calf, the amount he will be given is €3,000. A heifer could sell for €5,000. If the farmer has a bullock that is fit for killing and that is worth €3,500 or whatever, €3,000 is the maximum payment. I urge the Department to look at this because some people are furious about it.
In the context of areas of natural constraint, there is a small reduction. Is that because there are fewer farmers or what is the reason for it?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That small reduction is to meet budgetary pressures. There was €247 million allocated in respect of it in the Revised Estimates for last year. A Supplementary Estimate brought that up to €249 million. That was just managing the budget.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It does not mean that farmers are getting less.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is grand. What amount will the Department get from carbon tax this year?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We will get that for the Deputy in a minute. It increases year on year. The amount involved is €173 million. That has obviously been increasing each year as the take from carbon tax increases. This year, €173 million will go into the ACRES and will support our efforts in respect of that scheme. Some €3 million will go towards green agriculture pilots and anaerobic digestion.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Organics is -3%. What does that mean?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What subhead is that under?
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is under organics.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I opened up the organic scheme to the tillage sector and to a few other farmers. There are an additional 259 places in that space. Some farmers drop out of organics as well, which can lead to that reduction.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Are there fewer farmers in it now?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There is always a churn in respect of any scheme. We have opened up new places for farmers to go in. As I said in the context of the budget, I have prioritised-----
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Are there more or fewer involved in organic farming this year in comparison with last year?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There will be another 259 welcomed in this year. I will put a priority on tillage farmers in that regard.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am asking about the overall figure.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will come back to the Deputy with that.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am looking at the entry for the SBCI loan schemes. Maybe I am reading it wrong, but I am seeing a figure of 2000% or something like that.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The increase is due to new funding commitments to the SBCI. Those are for the period from this year to 2028, pending Government approval. That is something I do in conjunction with the Department of enterprise.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What is it for this year?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It was €300,000, but it is going up to €6.4 million for this year.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What was it last year?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
This is a new scheme. The previous one had come to an end, so there were deliberations over whether it would continue or not. I was determined that we would continue to make a contribution and that SBCI loans would remain available because they are very popular with farmers.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
To what does the entry on land commission receipts refer? There is also a veterinary fund, which appears to be down. What is that in relation to?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy is doing well. He has me jumping from subhead to subhead. The land commission receipts relate to the number of land purchases annuity accounts. It is reducing year on year. There has also been a reduction in anticipated receipts.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What about entry E11?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
E11, the veterinary fund, is reduced recruitment rates of 22%.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I see there is €2.5 million for those who we used to call the forgotten farmers - the long-established young farmers. There were problems with that where some people did not qualify. Will that be looked at again for those who did not qualify? They ended up with no payment, in the hope, over a number of years, that they would get something.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I inherited a commitment on that, with conditionality around it. I did not look to change that conditionality but I made a commitment to pay those who qualified under the heading that was in place. A lot of people talked about it, and it was discussed at length in this committee. It developed into a situation where a lot more farmers felt they qualified as a forgotten farmer than actually did. Based on the criteria I inherited, the number of farmers who applied and met that-----
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It was the terms and conditions, let us be honest about it.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They are the terms and conditions that were in place.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There were forgotten farmers and there was no money for them, so they did not do the green cert because they did not have the price of it.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There were very specific requirements. I do not have the dates to hand - it was 2007, 2008, 2015 - when those measures came in. There was a commitment that we would address the issue of the long-established farmer. I did that within the conditionality in place. It has been discussed at length. A lot of farmers hung around thinking it was coming. I do not intend to revisit it. The conditionality, for people who did not get it and unsuccessful applications, was they had to have previously benefited from installation aid, have been over 40 in 2015 and did not hold the required educational qualification. The Deputy mentioned someone who could not afford to get the green cert. If someone did not have the green cert, how would we determine what an active farmer is?
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There was nothing there for him.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The green cert was always there.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There was nothing there for him in getting money. That is the problem.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
If the Deputy is saying one of the problems was that this person did not have the green cert-----
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I know people who had the green cert in 2016 and because the cut-off date was 2015-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There always has to be a cut-off date. It cannot run in perpetuity. Applicants had to have commenced farming since 2008 and had to have benefited from young farmer supports since 2015 as well. There were significant criteria. No matter what the criteria, there will always be someone just on the wrong side of it. I had to work with the criteria set down before me. I do not intend revisiting that scheme.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is unfortunate. That is all I am saying.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will take that on board.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Am I right in saying there is a sheep welfare scheme, a calf scheme and a straw incorporation measure for 2026?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy lumped a few into together. Straw incorporation------
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Yes, and also the sheep scheme and the dairy calf scheme, in which the €75 payment went down to something over €60. Last year, €75 was promised. I understand more cattle went into the scheme. Is there more of a budget for that in case more people look for it? It was announced last year. I understand, because I spoke to the guys, who made it clear to the organisations at the time but they did not-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It was not communicated. Straw incorporation is different but in terms of the livestock schemes - I am working off the top of my head - in 2024, we had around €113 million or €114 million. In 2025, we got an increase in the budget for all livestock schemes to €131 million. It was an increase of about €18 million. I secured the same amount of money. This was a big commitment. Other people were screaming at me for a tillage support scheme and increased money for bovine TB. I managed, under significant pressure, to hold in 2026 the increased amount of €131 million provided in 2025. The Deputy asked if there is more money if more farmers apply. The increased amount has been provided. It is a record amount for livestock farmers. I do not determine how many farmers apply. There had been upset and commentary previously that farmers felt it was very late when the schemes used to open in June or July. On-farm decisions had been made which meant they could not have some of the interventions that would have allowed them to qualify for it. I opened the scheme earlier last year. I worked with colleagues in the Department, got it open in April, had that extra amount available and was able to communicate that clearly. That and the increase in the money available led to a record number of people applying.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Thank you, Minister, but you are over time.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Fair enough. The same amount of money has been provided. I expect significant interest again this year but €131 million is the total pot.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What allocations under Vote 30 have been reduced or reprofiled in the 2026 Revised Estimates?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Across programmes A, B and C, the arrows show if the provision is increasing or decreasing. The decreases all have reasons. As I said in an earlier answer, funding for the agri-environment scheme is reducing because the EURI-funded elements no longer exist. Under subhead A2, administration, there is an overall decrease of 14.5% to the Department's capital administrative budget due to a reduction in premises expenditure. I can go through them all.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, there is no need. What specific measurable outcomes will programmes A, B and C deliver in 2026 that were not achieved in 2025?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
At a high level, programme A covers food safety, animal health and welfare, support for the seafood sector and increased allocations to Bord Iascaigh Mhara, BIM, through the European Maritime, Fisheries and Aquaculture Fund, EMFAF. We anticipate more trees will be planted this year than last year so there is an allocation for additional funding for forestry. We are seeing a growing increase there, working with the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Healy-Rae. There will be increased expenditure on bovine TB because of the requirements in the new plan, which I discussed as well. There is an increase in allocations towards the likes of knowledge transfer-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What happens if those targets are missed?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The committee will have me back in here again and members can haul me over the coals. The Secretary General is the Accounting Officer but I am the accountable Minister, as the Leas-Chathaoirleach said in his opening statement.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Were there significant underspends in programmes A, B and C in 2025? If so, does that not point to delivery failures rather than funding constraints? There were underspends in four schemes.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We are talking in general terms unless there are specific areas or subheads the Deputy wants to look at. There is always a variety of reasons for a decline in spending in an area. It might be a reprofile or, as we had previously, there was a move from the sheep improvement scheme.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There was an underspend in the agri-environment scheme of €9.2 million. There was underspend in TAMS of €13.8 million. Is that correct? I was studying this last night. I read there were underspends in forestry and bioenergy of €41.7 million and in the organic schemes of €23.8 million. I stand to be corrected if I am wrong. I was reading all this.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Without being glib but, at a high level, we are managing a budget of €2.3 billion, €1.98 billion in current expenditure and €336 million in capital expenditure, and it is an awful lot of money.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There will never be a situation where it is zero at the end of the year and there has not either been an underspend or overspend.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am just questioning the money in the schemes I called out because it could have been in farmers' pockets.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We do not have underspends. We have certain areas where there was less demand or lower amounts coming down. I assure the Deputy-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Let us take one of those. If there was less demand-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Let us talk in specifics then. It would be easier.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In the agri-environment schemes, there was €9.2 million of an underspend. Is that correct?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Is that subhead B3, agri-environment schemes?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There is a 22% reduction because of the EURI-funded element. That is the European element. That is not money left behind. It means there is less money available in 2026 than there was in 2025 because EURI funding was a time-limited part of the rural development programme.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Did we get less money into the country then? Was less money available?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The rural development programme had a window and we are heading to the transition to the new CAP.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In that case, we are €9.2 million down in that.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In overall terms, I would not say we are down. EURI funding does not exist for 2026, however, so we cannot account for it.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
A lot of questions have been asked already and there is no point in going over them. A deal is a deal, and a valuer went out to every farm. There is a cap of €3,000. I have been at it the whole time and there was no increase. The Minister is a great man to apologise to farmers for not being able to raise it because he does not have the money. A deal is a deal and there is no other section of society where something is valued but people are told they will not be paid for that value and will be given X instead. It would not happen anywhere else. I wanted to make that point before moving on.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I want to make one point on this. I have to manage a budget and I cannot have an open-ended-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I do not have money-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
A value has nothing to do with a budget. If the Minister does a deal with a person and the inspectors go out on behalf of the Department of agriculture to say an animal is worth so much but they will get paid another amount, that has nothing to do with anything. It is taking money out of farmers' pockets for the animals they own and it would happen nowhere else. It is like anybody working being told their week's wages were supposed to be paid €500, and that is the agreement, but they will only get €400 because the employer says they do not pay any more than €400. That is the reality. We will not get into an argument but it is wrong.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I accept the Leas-Chathaoirleach's point.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Going forward, will the Minister please look at it?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I ask the Leas-Chathaoirleach to accept my bona fides. If I can address this in time, I will keep it under review.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I want to make one more point on the agri-environment schemes and the reduction in subhead B3. Several colleagues raised this, including Deputy Kenny, with regard to EURI funding. If we look at subhead B5, there is an increase of 58%. That is an increased allocation for horticulture and TAMS. The TAMS funds increased in subhead B5 to take account of the cessation of the EURI funds from subhead B3. In simple terms, there was European money through the RDP and we also used State money. There is no less money for farmers in this. The RDP was paid first and co-financing from Ireland came afterwards. That was State Exchequer funding as opposed European moneys. The farmer is not worse off. I want to be clear on that.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I want to ask about the viability of the climate schemes. An awful lot of farmers are talking about this. Will the Minister provide clear evidence that these schemes are environmentally effective and financially viable for farmers? Does the Minister have a comment?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In general, is the Leas-Chathaoirleach speaking about ACRES?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Absolutely, if we look at the results-based system. ACRES was a very big change. It was a very ambitious change in terms of administration and the requirements on farmers, advisers and the Department. A results-based system really delivers for the environment. We were looking for an environmental pillar for a long time. Irrespective of where a farm is at in terms of biodiversity and whatever it is we are trying to achieve for the environment, a results-based system takes a baseline in the first year and builds on it and pays for improvements made. There are people knocking it but I can tell the Leas-Chathaoirleach that it is not only delivering €750 million into farmers' pockets and our rural economy, but it is also delivering for the environment and biodiversity.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What proportion of Vote 13 will be absorbed by administration and compliance costs in 2026?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Administration and pay are under-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There is administration in each subhead. On the first page of Vote 30, administration is broken down between salary, wages, allowances, travel and subsistence, training and development, operational services, digital capital investment, premises expenses, policy reviews, consultancy services and the EU Presidency. In a Department with more than 4,000 staff there are significant pressures on the budget. This is at €412 million, which is a 2% increase, taking account of the public pay deal also.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Is the Minister able to give me an answer on how much money farmers paid by way of penalties? When penalties are taken from a farmer it is the most terrifying thing that can happen on a farm. Farmers never know what is going to happen. They get a letter with the harp on it to say they are having money deducted. How much money was taken off farmers this year by way of fines?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We will have to look at that on a scheme-by-scheme basis and come back to the Leas-Chathaoirleach with figures on it.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Will the Minister please come back to me?
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I want to make a point on this. What happens to the money? The Minister will know this from past experience. What happens to the money taken out of the farmers' pockets? In my opinion, it should not be taken from them. The Department should never take back money. Farmers should be warned and the Department should work with them, not penalise them. The Minister would not like money to be taken out of his pocket if he were a full-time farmer, I can tell him that. It is not fair and it is not right. Where does the money go? Is it put back into farming schemes? Whose pocket does it go into?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
A lot of this is managed through the EU. There is a simple point that needs to be made. We have a responsibility, as a Department handling more than €1 billion of EU money-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We have to have 4% of inspections and audits. If we do not meet this requirement, and if the EU finds in an audit of the Department that we have not administered a scheme according to how it was agreed with the EU - and when I want to change a scheme I have to get approval from Europe for it-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Absolutely. I asked a question about where the money goes.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am answering the question. We do not fine any farmer who has not done anything wrong. If rules are being broken, there are implications and the money will go back to the EU. To be clear, if we do not manage my total budget right, and if Europe finds that we did not administer the case right-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I understand that. Where has the money gone?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----we have disallowances. The Leas-Chathaoirleach does not want to hear about disallowances but they mean that millions of euro has to go back to Europe.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I know but where has the money gone that has been taken from farmers? If money is taken from me or from anybody here, where does it go?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is recycled back in. We also have-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Recycled back into what? Is it back into the scheme?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Yes, and some of it has to go back to Europe. This is European money. If European money has been spent wrongly-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----we get fined as a nation. Disallowances come out of my budget, which gives me less money to pay farmers.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
If a farmer in receipt of the single farm payment gets an inspection and a tag has gone out of a cow's ear, there is a deduction of €5,000, €1,000 or €2,000. Does the Minister send a cheque for the €2,000?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
To be clear, if farmers are claiming money they are not entitled to under the basic-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, I am not talking about entitlements. I am talking about a scheme-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
If money is taken back off a farmer, it is deemed that the farmer did not qualify for it or did not meet the terms and conditions of it.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, the farmer might have done something wrong. They might have-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They might not have met the terms and conditions of the deal.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They might have sown a bit of barley too near the ditch. They might have spread a bit of slurry in near the ditch. Money is taken out of the single farm payment. Where does that money go? It is a simple question.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is a very broad question, in fairness. We are not talking about specifics in terms of any one scheme.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Collectively, at the end of the year-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It would be easier to answer if we were talking about a particular scheme. My broader point is that we have to administer the European money right or Europe fines us. These fines, which are called disallowances, take millions out of my budget that I then do not have to support farmers.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The simple question I asked is-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Leas-Chathaoirleach is saying it is simple but it is very broad.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
If a farmer was owed €5,000 in the single farm payment but ends up getting €4,200 or €3,200, where has the difference gone? That is the question I have asked.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In terms of the specifics, we will have to go through them on a scheme-by-scheme basis and come back to the Leas-Chathaoirleach with figures.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We are a net contributor to Europe.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We give more money to Europe than we get back.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I just want to know where that money is going.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is actually our money that goes over and a bit of it comes back.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is all I am asking. To me it should be recycled back around again.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy Fitzmaurice is right, and we should be proud as a country to be a net contributor. There was a time we took Structural Funds and we were a net receiver of European money. We built up our infrastructure to have a strong open economy. Some 75% of everything we get back goes through the CAP, which is why it really matters.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We have time to go around for questions again. The Minister said he wanted the meeting until 6 p.m. so we will give him that time.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We would not dare take time from the Minister.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Someone must have said it on my behalf.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have three or four very quick questions. Subhead E5 refers to receipts from sale of vaccines. It was €10,000 in the Supplementary Estimate 2025 and it has increased to €542,000, a 5,000% increase. Why is this?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Receipts were underestimated in 2025, and €553,000 was received in 2025. It was an underestimation of the receipts.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is a big underestimation to be that much. I would get it if it were a bit of an underestimate but going from €10,000 to €542,000-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Yes, it was a clerical error. That was rectified.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Okay, that is perfect. In terms of C13 and the additional funding that has gone to the regulator, €3.2 million is being provided in 2026. Does that additional funding include pay for the five new staff or is that separate?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Yes. It is the cost for the Agri-Food Regulator to do its job, including pay and operational costs.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is not an extra €1 million for the five staff members.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No. We would have a lot of people applying to go to work in the Agri-Food Regulator if that were the case.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I had my CV ready to go. A priority of the budget is to promote Irish foods internationally. Priorities for trade in 2026 are to develop new and existing markets through trade missions, inward visits and market access works. I am completely in favour of and all for doing that, but is there a specific budget for it? Is it taken out of the trade and enterprise budgets or is there an agricultural budget for it? When the Minister is heading off to Japan or wherever he is heading to try to promote Irish products, does that cost come out of anywhere here? I am all for that, by the way. I think it is a good use of funds.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is Bord Bia engaging.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Bord Bia has inward buyer groups that come in all the time. They do trade deals and they go out as well.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is all done by Bord Bia. On the SBCI loan scheme, which was briefly touched on by Deputy Fitzmaurice, the Minister might just explain to me if the €6.4 million is matched by other Departments or if that is just a stand-alone amount. What way does that work?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is to be matched. There are ongoing negotiations about it, but it is the Department of Enterprise, Tourism and Employment.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What is that loan for?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The SBCI allows for low-interest loans for farmers to avail of. They then go to the pillar banks - AIB and Bank of Ireland - for an SBCI loan. The feeling is that those banks would not provide those loans if there was not Government backing. This is the Government putting the money up. It allows farmers to get those low-interest loans.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They are purely for agriculture. The tourism side, obviously-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is purely for agriculture and unsecured.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is perfect. I just wanted a bit of clarity.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It does mean that farmers who may not be able to avail of a loan from a bank can get this loan because the terms and conditions are more favourable.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
To do that, the banks need the Government to step in and underwrite them, basically.
Peter Cleere (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is perfect. I thank the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach and the Minister.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I come back to animal welfare. Bluetongue is one of the issues we may be looking to deal with in future; it is to be hoped we will not. Rather, we hope the weather will stay cold enough and we will not have any outbreaks. Were we to have a problem and an issue involving vaccinations and all of that, farmers would have to vaccinate. If there were advice to do that, they would have to do it. Is there anywhere in the budget we could look at providing assistance for farmers in that context?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Yes, but we have to be pragmatic about this. We continue to react to the presence of bluetongue in a number of cases. In the Seanad yesterday, I outlined the most recent cases in Wicklow and Louth, unfortunately. The chances of this disease becoming established in the summer months is quite high now because it is in our midge activity, so we have to prepare for that. Once it came onto the island of Ireland in the North before Christmas, I reacted because I felt that was the right time to approve vaccines for use in 2026. It is a commercial decision. We engage with vaccine companies. Three different vaccines are available through three different companies. They are not cheap. That is a decision for farmers to make, but the consequential losses of a livestock farmer losing a load of calves or lambs would be very significant too. I am looking at options, but as of now, it is a commercial decision. It also depends on other factors. There are a lot of variables. If farmers have pedigree stock, for example, what is the value of the herd? It is also about where people are in the country. If people are in the south east now, they have a higher risk, while those in Donegal have a much lower risk. In time, that situation may change. As of now, it is something we are monitoring and reacting to in real time.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The other issue connected to it is the fact we have no movement of cattle across the Border on the island. That poses a problem and may have an impact. Is there any movement in that respect or any hope we will get a resolution to this situation?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There are ongoing discussions and negotiations.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What are the costs involved?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Some recent media reports have expressed an expectation that the cross-Border live animal trade would reopen in the next couple of days. That is not the case. It is important to put that on the record. Negotiations are ongoing. As I outlined in the Seanad yesterday during the debate on this issue, there is a derogation available for the movement of animals. I know we are moving into the show period and people have bought animals in both directions. A derogation is given by the receiving country. We do not decide on whether animals can go up to the North.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is up to the authorities in the North.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is. A derogation applies to all member states, and the North would be treated as a member state in this regard. If we were to give the North a derogation for stuff coming down, that would open it up for every other member state. The disease profile across Europe is very different from what it is in Ireland, so there could be consequential fallout disease-wise through opening that trade that is not happening at the minute. We just have bluetongue serotype 3 here. There are 24 different serotypes. Other European countries have a broader range of them. If we were to allow a derogation for the North, we would not be able to stop animals coming in from other member states, and that potentially creates difficulties down the line. It is a big decision, therefore, and one we would want to have our eyes wide open to making. If people are asking for a derogation, they would want to be aware of all the potential implications of it. I am not saying it will not happen.
I met with the Minister in Northern Ireland, Andrew Muir, in Donegal last Thursday. My chief veterinary officer, June Fanning, and Mr. Muir's chief veterinary officer, Brian Dooher, are working closely together. We would like to be in a position where we are in lockstep on this issue. We saw during avian influenza how working hand in glove around the housing orders and things like that was beneficial. The North is on a slightly different trajectory from us, having had an outbreak earlier. We have avoided restrictions here and we do not want to bring those movement restrictions in here. In an ideal world, if we were making moves, we would like to be able to do that in conjunction with the North. This is why those detailed negotiations are ongoing. I do not expect any change in this regard in the coming days, however.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In the coming weeks, maybe?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is very hard to know. We are in a very dynamic situation. I do not want to-----
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We do not want to give people false hope.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, exactly. We understand the pressure people are under and we are working closely together, but I do not see any change in the coming while.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Bord Bia was mentioned, and the marketing of Irish food, drink and commodities around the world is very important. Britain is our biggest market for everything we have. Up to now, there used to be an agricultural attaché position in London. I understand that has been taken away or removed.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is still in place.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I ask because I understand there is a new position.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
She is a great Kildare woman, and doing well.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Okay. I understand a position was advertised recently for a higher executive officer and I thought that was a replacement for the agricultural attaché.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No. On that agricultural attaché role, I think we have 13 or 14 around the world. That is off the top of my head.
Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is an important role.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They are in the US, Asia, etc. They are in our key growing markets, including China, Japan and Korea. I have seen our attachés. They do amazing work in their roles, particularly in countries in Asia, where there is a language barrier and more. It is wonderful to see a Department of agriculture official based in Seoul, Beijing or Tokyo having built those connections that mean, when we go over on a trade mission, they have all the political meetings set up. They have those routes in. Being there allows them to gain greater access to those officials. It is a big investment from my Department, but I feel from the trade perspective that it is really beneficial. The person in London is still in place as well.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am going back to the issue regarding farms penalised for different issues. On the suckler carbon efficiency programme, SCEP, I am aware of a farmer who was in the programme for two years. He got full payments for two years. In the third year, however, he was late registering a handful of calves, and because of that he was penalised for the first two years and those payments were taken back from other payments he was to get. How would that have been worked out? On what basis could it have been done? He was not told or anything. He was not contacted. It was automatically done. There were different schemes. Could we get an update on that?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In terms of the SCEP, no more than with other scheme, what farmers are signing up to in the contract is that they are going to implement these measures that will have beneficial outcomes from animal welfare and environmental perspectives and beyond. The cumulative benefit is realised over the years. That is why we are getting the money and how we are justifying it to Europe. This all comes back to the point I was making earlier to the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach. We do detailed negotiations with the European Commission on how we can design a scheme, what is acceptable to the Commission and what is not, and what it will give money for.
If we do not administer those schemes properly, and the Commission finds that out in an audit, and it audits us all the time, then it will charge what are called disallowances. This is where we have to pay millions of euro back because the Commission says we did not administer the scheme properly. It is fine if we want to give money to a farmer not meeting the terms of the scheme.
I am not speaking about this particular farmer but speaking in general. While that is fine, you do that out of Exchequer funding and you are not using European money for it. That goes back. We must have a strict enforcement policy for how the schemes are managed, because if they are found by Europe not to be managed correctly, funding is taken back off the State, the Exchequer and the taxpayer, and my Department loses and everyone loses. By European standards, our rate of disallowance is low because we manage these schemes well. It was an incidental comment that the farmer made a mistake in year three, and that is unfortunate. There are opportunities for a farmer to appeal, to make a case under force majeureif there is illness and there has been bereavement. It is a high enough bar to reach for good reason because there is a lot of money involved, but you can make those cases. If you just dropped out of the scheme and you have not kept doing it, however, you did sign up to it at the start to see that scheme through for the five years.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Should he not have been contacted then that he was being penalised in that scheme, but it was from another scheme that it was getting withdrawn? He had everything above board for two years. Everything was 100%. He paid his full amount.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
First of all, they are two different things. The first is that, under SCEP, it would have been clearly said that you are signing up to continue to do this work over the course of those numbers of years. It is like the beef data and genomics scheme previously. You could not leave it halfway through because then you were not getting the data genomic benefit the whole way through. That is why, when you signed up to the scheme, you committed to seeing it through for the five years. It turned out to be a seven-year scheme. I myself got caught in it and I would have been happier to get out of it but I could not because I would have had to pay all the money back for the previous couple of years. That is how those schemes operate.
What would have happened is the farmer would have been told that they were in breach and that the previous money received had been owed. They would have had the opportunity to appeal. When that appeal process and all that goes with it, such as oral hearings and everything, was concluded, if money was still outstanding, rather than the farmer paying a cheque, it would be stopped out of future payments. That might sound like it is coming from one scheme for another, but if the process has been concluded, you still owe €5,000 and you have a single farm payment of €6,000 coming, the €5,000 will come back.
Debts or overpayments are recounted at the first available opportunity. That is a basic requirement of the EU. That is part of what we sign up to with the EU when we make those agreements.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In fairness, it would be nice if the client had been made aware that this was going to be the position.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I would be very surprised if they had not got a letter telling them that was the case.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I would be very surprised.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
On the targeted agriculture modernisation, TAM, scheme, the €88 million represents what is referred to as a significant increase. What is the increase in the TAM scheme in 2026 compared with 2025?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It has gone up to €88 million. TAMS is not an annually funded scheme to the same extent because, over the tranches, there is a big lag from when you apply to when you get approved, and then you have a year or more to do the works and draw down the money. It is not like other schemes where January to December is very clearly defined. TAMS is a rolling scheme. It is €88 million a year. In 2021, it was approximately €40 million. It was a €2 million increase from the 2025 allocation to 2026 but, in 2021, it was approximately €40 million. We have massively increased the investment in TAMS, and with that we have seen, a massive increase of people's ambitions and a huge increase in the amount of applications.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is very positive. As I say, the investment in TAMS is future-proofing. More than other things, those sheds will be there for years to come. It benefits generational renewal and a whole range of other supports.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
To follow-up on Deputy Aird's question, will the Minister forward - I am not asking for it now - what was recouped from farmers in penalties and what was sent back to Europe in 2023, 2024 and 2025? In some of the schemes, there is a penalty. Where does that money go, just to clarify that?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We will have to do that on a scheme-by-scheme basis. We will share that detail with the Deputy.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Will the Minister send an overall note to us?
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is good the Minister is putting money into marketing. We would hear from the shipping side of it - in the live trade, not the dead trade - that they do not get - I will not call them junkets - too much opportunity to go out. Basically, their argument would be that those in the live trade do not looked after by the relevant bodies, be it Bord Bia or the Department, when it comes to looking at new markets and that they themselves have to do all this. What is the situation in that regard?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In terms of the support, obviously live exports are really important. I would say the level of time, resources and support from my Department through our veterinary teams for live exports is phenomenal. The Deputy and I have had chats late on Saturday nights and early on Sundays about boats going and supports.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am not saying anything about them that way.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There is no shortage of support for the sector. The big part where the State supports live exports is through my officials in the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine making sure that the health certificates and the negotiations of the market access with the receiving countries has been agreed.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
To be clear, the veterinary side of it helped an awful lot. I am not questioning that.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Live exports, to answer the Deputy's original question-----
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am not questioning the health certificates side of it, even though I would like some of them to be done a bit quicker. With bluetongue, the Minister will be well aware of what I am on about. What I am on about is the identification of new markets.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will answer the Deputy's second question in a minute. On the point that the Deputy would like things to be done quicker on bluetongue, I note there are videos circulating on social media and there are people with a lot to say. With every third country or European neighbour that we deal with around health certificates, it is up to the receiving country to set its standards, and that is what we have to work with. Exporters can be frustrated by that, but we have to make sure we get the access so that the live animals they want to export and get paid for can reach wherever it is. Those countries set the conditions and we have to go with that. Otherwise, we do not get the access. They should be careful what they complain about because if they do not meet the conditions, they do not get the access.
The trade in and export of live animals is a private commercial activity. My Department treats it like any other export commodity that needs export certification or veterinary certification. We provide that. The live export of animals is done to a really high standard. We in Ireland supersede the European standard in terms of animal welfare and scrutiny to protect the reputation of our industry, which is so important as an island nation, but that activity, in terms of the exporters, is private commercial activity.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
My understanding is, if you have a factory, you are brought out by certain bodies in this country to promotional events. They go to Germany and to different places. The meat factory people are brought but the exporters of live animals are not brought. How come? Both are private operators.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
In terms of the relationships the exporters would have with the receiving countries and nations when it comes to trade missions, I would imagine private companies travel on their own steam. If I am going on a trade mission somewhere, the invitation is there if companies want to join that. They will do if they have a market opportunity in that space and they will go out or send their own staff of their own volition. In terms of live exporters, our support, which is extensive from my Department, is through our veterinary team, and they are well supported. What is most important for them to be able to carry out that private commercial activity is that they have the access that they require. The same could be said of the private meat factories, the food and drink companies, whiskey distilleries or anybody.
Our job in my Department is twofold, and the job with Bord Bia is the secondary part. My job is making sure that our Department has the market access for that produce that has the raw ingredients produced by our farmers and gives the best possible return to them. Gaining market access can be a slow and tedious process. Beef access to Korea which took years. I visited Korea three times. Our mission on the first two occasions was to gain market access. The third time was with Bord Bia, promoting the produce, supporting Irish businesses to build the relationships and providing a platform. Sometimes what Bord Bia might do is have a stand at key trade fairs. The SIAL food fair in France happens every second year.
The Anuga food fair in Cologne happens every alternative year. Bord Bia will invest and use its resources to have a significant stand there that our food and drink companies can use as a base.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is grand. I have seen media reports today that the northern trade review is opening shortly. Is that pre-emptive, in the Minister's opinion?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I think it is premature.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is not that we are not trying every effort. I was told before I came in here that it has been reported that it could be open within two or three days. I do not see that happening. We are doing everything we can. I understand the pressure there is on people. This is a big decision. People really need to want this and to go into it with their eyes wide open if we are doing it. It is not without risk.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I support Deputy Cooney. He spoke about a man having to hand back money after three years. That could be for being three days late in submitting the calf details to the Department. It could be something as small as that. As full-time farmers we abhor the arguments here all day. It is very testing. You could have left it in the van or whatever. Something happened and they were left there, and the Department says, "Sorry."
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will not talk about any individual case here as I do not know the details-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----but in my experience the penalty and the impact are relatable to the breach. A significant breach will see a significant fine or penalty.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I do not know. I have a whole lot of people on to me as well. They are all getting their single farm payment.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We are speaking in huge generalisations. I would prefer if we spoke more in specifics. That is sentiment and is not something I can reply to in detail. We are throwing it out there as if it is a fact. In my experience that is not the fact.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Will the Minister give us the exact amount of money and where it came from? It is difficult-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have committed to giving the committee that.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have committed to giving that. That is what I am saying.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister has to accept that we are now net contributors to Europe.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It makes no odds. You sign up to terms-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We are paying that. Can I ask a question?
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We are paying the money out there now. That is the way it is now. That is taxpayers' money going out there. We get a scheme back in then. The taxpayer could be the farmer who makes a small error. The money is taken back. All we want to know is if that money going back out again. Are they getting double money off us? The people are working hard in this country, and they certainly would not like to see that happen. That is all I am saying.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
He can come back to me with the cost anyway.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Can I reply to that?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Let us not get too simplistic about this. Yes, we contribute a lot to being members of the European Union. We do that for a good reason. Ireland and Irish farmers benefit hugely by being part of a Single Market of over 500 million people and having free access for our goods and free movement for our people across the European Union. Any Irish person can go and be treated exactly the same as here in Spain and Germany in terms of employment or any rights. Membership of the European Union is a broad thing. You cannot then go to a scheme and say "we have paid for that, so you have to let us go and it does not matter if we meet the terms and conditions".
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, if we are talking in general terms-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, I am being reasonable.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, I am talking about the Department being reasonable to the farmers. That is what I am asking. I am asking it to be reasonable.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Hold on. I am going to come back with specific figures and detail on this. I will explain what I am uncomfortable with here. We are talking pure sentiment at a very high level. A throwaway comment has been made to the effect that people are getting screwed no matter what. We have been told that it is a terrible penalty. In my experience, that is not the case. In my experience, if the breach has been minor, the penalty is minor, and it is resolved and moved on. If the breach is significant, there have to be terms and conditions around any scheme. Irrespective of whether we are the biggest contributor or the smallest contributor, we are ultimately getting money from a pot that is not just Irish money; it is all European money. The European Commission has to be able to stand over that spend. If the European Commission did not have strong audits, European citizens all over would say their money is not being spent well.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
How many farmers have come into the Minister in his constituency office, where he represents the people? Would he not have felt sorry for them because they had money taken off them because of minor things?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
My experience of dealing with those cases - I deal with plenty of colleagues' cases through my office as Minister for agriculture - is that there is not a seismic gap between the fine and the breach. There is a correlation between how big the breach is and how big the fine is.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will move on to my next question. An increase has been provided for in respect of Bord Bia. The last day we had Bord Bia before the committee, we were talking about labelling. We were disappointed. We came up with things where we could see the labelling even though it was not sourced in Ireland at all. One of them related to Kenya and Spain. There is a delicate issue at the moment, but this is a genuine issue for Bord Bia. I did not like what I saw that day, no more than any of our colleagues did. Yet, we are giving it an increased budget. It would be remiss of me not to make that point.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will reply to that. The increase of 2% is minimal and just covers staffing costs. Effectively Bord Bia and Teagasc, like the horse and greyhound fund, have been flat and have not got that increase. Because of the constraints on the budget, I did not have the capacity-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am just trying to make the point that if we were to ask if our money was well spent on that, we would have to say, "No, it was not."
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Hold on. I am answering the points the Chair has made. That is fine. The Chair is allowed to make them and I am allowed to respond. On food labelling and the element here, our colleague, the Minister for Health, has responsibility for general food labelling and the FSAI has a key role to play in that. Let us be clear that laying all concerns about food labelling at Bord Bia's door is unfair because the legislation for food labelling comes under the Department of Health and its enforcement is with the FSAI. What I have undertaken-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have to interrupt. I am sorry.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
On that particular one there were three; two of them were not its responsibility but the third was 100% its responsibility. It even showed a photograph of a producer because it was packaged stuff. You can bring stuff into this country, you can pack it here and you can put it out in Bord Bia bags with the emblem on it. That is the best way to do it.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Some people have used the Bord Bia brand wrongly. Bord Bia has pursued them. Bord Bia said clearly at that meeting that something that is not quality assured Irish cannot have the quality assured stamp. That does not mean some companies do not chance their arm and try to use it. Where it is found to be done, they are pursued by Bord Bia.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They are pursued when they are in breach.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
How much? What about the poor old farmer on-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Hold on, Chair, please.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, the Deputy is just throwing away loose comments.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am not. This is what the meeting is about.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
This meeting is about detail. This meeting is about budget lines.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is also about me being able to answer a question.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is about the 2% increase in Bord Bia. That is what we are talking about.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Exactly, and I answered that point. Purely on the pay basis, it is effectively flat. The other point I want to make, if I am given a chance, is that in the challenges there have been around Bord Bia, I have undertaken to look at and engage with the IFA and others to try to find a resolution to the protests. I have obviously been clear on the position of the chair.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am making my point about food labelling. I had a five-hour stakeholder meeting with all of the farm organisations and others. I asked Bord Bia to undertake a number of different measures, including the established of a farmers' forum, which will see all farm organisations being able to feed into the work of Bord Bia. It will be beneficial that in the monthly standing meeting of the Bord Bia board, the farmers' forum will be a standing item on the agenda. This new approach will give farmers a greater voice in how Bord Bia operates. I have also undertaken to have an initiative that enhances understanding of global supply chains for Irish food and drink, as well as understanding of labelling and food information for consumer requirements. I believe a lot of genuine issues have been raised in the committee that we want to resolve. It is not in farmers' interests-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I only asked about the increase. It is a bad day to be talking about it. I think the way they are treating the people in Bord Bia at the moment is absolutely disgraceful.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Every day is a good day to talk about it.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
All right, sorry. I am just saying it is disgraceful. I have a final question. Given ongoing-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I want to be clear on that matter, given the basis on which the Chair has raised it. I am sorry there are people in the Bord Bia building. Deputy Newsome Drennan's colleague, Deputy Carthy, has a statement out today that talks about people locked in a building. I want to be clear that the door is open. They went in there voluntarily. It is the case that the occupation is illegal. Bord Bia has taken a very hands-off approach on that for very good reasons. I understand why those members felt the need to do that. It is unfortunate. We are trying to negotiate a position here. A lot of the issues that have been addressed-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is sad to see the people in there.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
As Chair of this committee, the Deputy has made a throwaway comment that they are being treated badly. They are not. They went in there voluntarily. They are occupying a building. Some 140 people cannot go to work in that building because it is occupied. We have inward buyer groups, who are investors coming in here.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Let me finish. They are looking to buy Irish farmers' food produce, but they cannot go into that building.
That is unfortunate as well.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am sorry, but to go back to the Minister's comment-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
For everybody's interest, we would be better-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I do not want to get into that argument, but the Minister has to be taken up on one comment. The Minister said that those people are being treated fairly. I had to ring him to get those people fed after 23 hours.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We will leave it at that now.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----the Leas-Chathaoirleach did ring me on that, as did three other colleagues.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There was a line of people coming with food. They were always fed. There was always food in there.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They were 23 hours without food.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There was always food in there. I am sorry-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They were not, so that was a lie.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The word "lie" is very strong.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There was always food in that building.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
They were not without food, and we were told that. They were not without food.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have heard them twice online, and they have said twice that they were not fed.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Anyway, this is about the Estimates. It is not about that today. My last question-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
You are the one who brought it up. I was replying.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, I did not. I did not say one word about it.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
You did. You brought up the people in the building, so I was responding to that. Of course, I am going to respond.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I did not; I asked about the increase.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Yes, but you brought up the people in the building.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, you talked about the people who are inside the building. I did not. You started that.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I responded to your point that you made. Anyway-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, no, no. I am sorry; I have to be clear on this. The point I made was that there was an increase of 2.09% in the budgetary allocation-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I explained what that increase was for.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is grand. I have the allocation. All I said was that we were just taken aback a little bit when we had them in on that particular point. We were right because I had a woman who brought it down to me-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will finish by saying it would be in everyone's interest if we could come to a resolution on this. I will not be an impediment to a resolution-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----once everyone comes to it being reasonable and understands everyone's perspective.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I want to ask a question about the ongoing income volatility. The Minister knows that is a key cross-sector issue towards beef at the moment. I want to include sheep and tillage as well. Can the Minister explain how the 2026 Estimates reflect the reality for farm families who are in those three businesses at the moment? The Minister knows about beef volatility, but it can go up or down. The sheep sector speaks for itself. People are exiting. The tillage sector is in crisis in farm families. All I am saying is that we really need to be able to do something going forward for those groups of people.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Income volatility is a very significant issue. One of the reasons the tillage sector has had it so hard, with three years of bad weather and poor prices, is because it is very much based on world market prices. What we have continuously done, and not removed from the work of Bord Bia and others, is tried to attain higher value markets for our produce, including our dairy, beef and lamb, so that we are not competing with world market prices and so that, actually, our beef farmers do not compete with Brazilian beef abroad.
I will make a comment on one thing in all the discussions over the last few weeks that has been a bit frustrating. It has been completely focused on the 10% of food produced here by Irish farmers that is consumed in Ireland and not the 90% that is exported, which drives 90% of the income for our farmers and the value of that produce. The year-on-year record increase and the export value of our food has been driven by exports, and not by the domestic market, because 90% of what we produce is exported. In that context, we continue to strive to open new markets to gain access to new markets. That is really important when we consider our dependency on the UK market since before Brexit. It is our nearest trading partner. It pays better than most markets in terms of price. We have a very trusted place with the British consumer. However, we know from Brexit that the UK is now doing trade deals with other countries that will allow market access for other competing food products in the beef and sheep space and the dairy space. That is why my focus in the Department is to continue to diversify and continue to grow market opportunities across mainland Europe and across third countries, while continuing to work on and mind the very important trade we have with the UK. I recognise that it is not good to be dependent on that. The greater the breadth of the markets we are in, the greater the volume of exports we can get to different markets and the greater the opportunities there are for our Irish food and drink companies to access those markets. This gives us the best buffer against the volatility that will happen in world market prices. Obviously, we see on the dairy side that supply and demand is always going to be a key contributor. However, if the access we have is across a greater range of markets and higher value markets, we will be a long way down the road to buffering our farmers from the worst of those volatilities.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I still think the tillage sector is one I would be nervous for going forward.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is why I was delighted to launch the details of the national tillage sustainability scheme this year. I put €30 million, along with €20 million under protein aid and straw incorporation, to support our tillage sector in recognition that it has been a hard couple of years. Ultimately, however, the win is for our tillage sector in the medium term. I want to be able to support this every year I am in this role and have supports for our tillage sector. In the medium term, the bigger prize here for our tillage sector is increasing the use of our native grains-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----and incorporating that value-added piece. The quality assurance element for our tillage farmers is really important.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy Newsome Drennan has three minutes. Is that all right?
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Hopefully.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am sorry, but she went out, and I did not have her factored in because I thought she had left.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Can the Minister explain the receipts on the vaccinations? Is that to do with TB vaccinations? What is the increase in that? I refer to subhead E5.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is subhead E5, receipts.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is receipts from the sales of vaccines.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
This was a clerical error.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Okay, and that should be-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I answered this earlier. The Deputy might have stepped out for that.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am sorry; yes.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It was a clerical error: an underestimation which was rectified.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Okay. What is the revised figure for this year? If it was €10,000 last year-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I do not have the figure to hand, but I will get it back to the Deputy.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Okay, that is perfect.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am sorry; it is €542,000.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is what is written on it. Last year, it was €10,000. That is what I am asking.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Last year was €10,000, so that is the error.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
So, this year is €542,000.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Yes. It was a clerical error.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What is the increase?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Take €10,000 away from €542,000. What we received last year in receipts was €553,046, but we had estimated €10,000. The estimation was wrong. Again, that was a clerical error.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Okay, I get it. That is grand. On the €20 million extra for ACRES, as the figures have not gone up I presume that is money he found last year. The Minister probably said this already.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, I did not find it. I had to fight for it in negotiations, to be honest.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, I do not mean that. When we look at the figures-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We were under profile. What was allocated for last year was €260 million-----
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It was surplus.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----and in the supplementary budget later in the year, which I ran by this committee and was approved here, €35 million of that was for ACRES for 2025. Therefore, I brought the €260 million to €295 million. There was a recognition that €260 million was too low a base and was not going to allow me to meet my contractual obligations. For this year, the Minister, Deputy Chambers, following discussions, increased my base from €260 million to €280 million. That will allow me-----
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
To maintain that.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
----- to meet the requirements this year.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
On the tillage then, there is an extra €30 million for new support schemes. What is that? Is that-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is the national tillage sustainability scheme, which I announced the detail of yesterday. That is down as new because the €30 million scheme that was there last year was a one-off scheme. In the most recent budget negotiations, the clear view of the Government was that all one-off schemes were just that; they were gone. When I started my budget negotiations, there was no consideration that I had a tillage scheme as a standing part of my budget. That meant I had to fight for new money for that and for a new commitment to do that and have that as a priority. Obviously, I would have liked to have more but, combined with the straw incorporation and protein aid measures, there is a €50 million package of supports for our tillage sector.
I have worked with the farm stakeholders and particularly the Irish Grain Growers group to go through the details of how best we can target that money. The previous tillage scheme was €100 per hectare for every hectare that had seed put in the ground of any type of crop. I felt that was not targeted enough. To get this to the farmers who needed the support the most in our cereal sector, which the Chair talked about as well, we made decisions around targeting that and having a degressive payment so that it would be €110 per hectare on the first 100 ha and then it would decrease thereafter. Then, it was decided to keep it to just cereals and oil seed rape. The likes of maize, which is predominantly a forage crop for the dairy sector, would have previously been included. Again, it is about making sure we target the money we have at the tillage farmers and cereal growers we are trying to protect and mind here. We made those key decisions in consultation with the stakeholders.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We have to find the extra 65,000 ha.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Ultimately, that is what we want to get to.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
How are we going to do that?
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We are fighting against wind farms, solar farms, housing and dairy, etc.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There is a broader discussion to be had around land use. In general, when we look at our tillage sector, we have a goal to get to 400,000 ha in cereals. That is a very ambitious goal. The interventions around financial support here are about stabilising what we have and giving farmers the confidence to sow again this year after three tough years of bad weather and bad prices.
I am doing work to build a quality assurance scheme for our tillage farmers. Such a scheme has not existed previously and for all the talk of quality assurance, the one sector most on its knees is a sector that does not have it. There is something in that and people should reflect on it. Building that value-added piece is the way forward so we get a greater focus on our use of native grains, get that economic return and are able to monetise it and, therefore, get a greater return for our farmers down the line, rather than just financial support, although financial support is very important.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I have one last question. As parents, we do the best we can and try to teach our children right from wrong. It is like me sitting at home at the kitchen table with the children who are eating scrambled eggs for breakfast while I eat a big slice of chocolate cake. We teach them right and wrong. I could not sit there and preach to the children while I do the wrong thing. This whole Bord Bia thing is creeping into everything else. It is basic right and wrong. We cannot have that person sitting as the chair and preaching-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That topic has been discussed.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I did not discuss it.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The committee did. In the Deputy's absence, the question was asked three times. I ask the Deputy to be fair.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We cannot have the chair sitting at the top table preaching to us to do the right thing-----
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----while going off and doing the other thing. We can be clear that he has not broken any rules.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Minister, we have to finish now.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Last night-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am not letting the Deputy go unchallenged. I ask her to go ahead. I will give my response. I am happy-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
No, I am sorry, I am ruling as Chair-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am happy to answer this.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I will just keep talking. Last night, when I was at the meeting with the IFA-----
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy was very close to my home last night. She is very welcome to Kildare.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It was on my way home. It was 15 minutes off the motorway. That was all it was for me to go to it.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Deputy, I have to ask you-----
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
There were people there from Carlow and Kilkenny.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----to be fair. We have to be fair to everyone. The Deputy is four minutes over time.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
As farmers, we want to-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am sorry, I have to rule out the Deputy.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
We want to look after-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The question has been answered.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I want to raise two points in response to Deputy Newsome Drennan. The first is that any suggestion that a commercially experienced and successful businessperson should not be the chair of a commercial semi-State body is a pretty mad thing for anybody to be saying.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Minister has said that a few times. What is the next point?
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The second thing is that trade deals such as that being discussed by the Deputy, involving that company, which require a minor amount of supply to prove a supply chain to Latin America to facilitate the sale of hundreds of millions of euro worth of Irish farmers' produce, are absolutely in Irish farmers' interests.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy's chocolate cake analogy and everything else is rubbish, with the greatest of respect.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
All right. That is grand. Thanks, Minister.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is fine for him to bring substandard beef into our country.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Like a lot of this debate, that is a great soundbite, but it is in no way reflective-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
I am reading out that that concludes the agriculture committee's-----
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is substandard beef and we cannot-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
-----consideration of the 2026 Revised Estimates.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
Those safeguards were there when that meat was already consumed. That is not good enough in this country. It is not.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The deal covered over 40 countries.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That does not matter.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy is again falling into the trap of focusing only on Ireland.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
When I asked about that food-----
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
What was the compensation for the people who bought that food? We got nothing back because they cannot trace the food because it has already been consumed.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
That is not good enough.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
The Deputy is conflating two different things.
Natasha Newsome Drennan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context
It is not good enough.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context
On behalf of the select committee, I thank the Minister and his officials for assisting the committee with its consideration of the 2026 Revised Estimates for Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine, and for dealing comprehensively with the questions from the committee.