Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Apologies have been received from Senator McCormack and Deputy Eoin Ó Broin. I advise members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex in order to participate in meetings.

The Planning and Development Act 2024 (Modification) Regulations 2025 have been referred to this committee for consideration by both Houses of the Oireachtas. These provide for a technical modification to subsection (2) of section 69 of the Act of 2024 in order to change the operative date, from October to December, for a transitional provision relating to development plan variations that were initiated under the planning Act of 2000. I am pleased that we have the opportunity to consider this with the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy James Browne, and his officials. A briefing note on the regulations has been circulated to members. To commence our consideration of the matter, I invite the Minister to make his opening remarks.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach for the opportunity to present to the committee today on the proposed Planning and Development Act 2024 (Modification) Regulations 2025. While the proposed regulations are technical in nature, they are an important component of the wider commencement process for the Act of 2024. If it is acceptable, in advance of discussing the purpose of the proposed regulations, I would like to take this opportunity to provide a brief update on the ongoing phased commencement of the Act of 2024 and the good progress being made in that regard.

As of 2 October 2025, more than 134 sections of the Act had been brought into operation. These include provisions for the establishment of An Coimisiún Pleanála, reformed planning judicial review processes and the introduction of the national planning statements that will be used to set out policy and provide guidance in relation to planning matters. When compared with progress in the first year of the implementation of the Planning and Development Act 2000, almost 50% more legislation has now been brought into effect in the first year of the Act of 2024. Next month, I intend to bring a further group of provisions into effect, at which point I will have commenced more legislation under the Act of 2024 than was contained in the entirety of the Act of 2000 following its enactment on 28 August 2000.

While good progress is being made, there is a lot of work to do. As we move into 2026, the third phase of commencements is to proceed. This will provide for a range of important provisions, such as development consents, architectural heritage and enforcement matters. The ongoing phased commencement of the Act of 2024 is a complex task and is one that continues to be responsive to stakeholder needs and Government policy. Following the revision of the national planning framework in April, I issued housing growth requirements guidelines to local authorities in order to set out the housing demand scenario in the State up to the year 2040. These guidelines translated the national planning framework, NPF, housing requirements into estimated average annual figures for each local authority.

While I originally intended to bring all of Part 3 of the Act of 2024 into operation in October, following discussions with stakeholders and local authority representatives, I decided to stagger the commencement of its provisions in order to help facilitate the urgent variation of development plans using familiar processes and provisions under the planning Act of 2000. This was done for the single purpose of implementing the housing growth requirements guidelines as expeditiously as possible.

Last month, I brought chapters 1 to 4 of Part 3 into operation, providing the new legislative foundation for the NPF and for regional spatial and economic strategies, and also establishing the aforementioned national planning statements. Next month, I intend to commence the remaining provisions of Part 3 by bringing chapters 5 and 6 into operation, providing for development plans and area plans under the Act of 2024.

The intention behind the proposed regulations is to make a technical modification to section 69(2) of the Act of 2024 in order to change the operative date, from October to December, for a transitional provision relating to development plan variations that were initiated under the planning Act of 2000. After it takes effect, this straightforward modification would align the transitional provision with the commencement of the development plan provisions under the Act of 2024. The proposed regulations also intend to make a similar change to section 81 of the Act of 2024 but with respect to local area plan variations.

These measures have been undertaken to assist in the provision of additional zoned land for residential development and as part of the ongoing phased commencement of the Act of 2024. I commend the draft regulations to the committee.

Further to today's presentation, if the proposed regulations are subsequently approved by positive resolution of both Houses of the Oireachtas, as required under section 4 of the Act of 2024, it is my intention to sign the regulations into law at the earliest opportunity to prepare for the commencement of chapters 5 and 6 of Part 3 of the Act of 2024. In effect, variations have commenced under the 2000 Act and without this technical, transitional measure when we commence the rest of Part 3, the variations would fall and we would have to restart them. In the interests of convenience and speed, this ensures that any variations that have already commenced can continue to work without interruption.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister. I welcome Deputy Boyd Barrett to the committee. We are delighted to see him back and in good health. We wish him well, and the best of luck.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Thank you, Chair.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We have a tight timeframe, so each member will have five minutes for questions and answers. We will start with Deputy Séamus McGrath.

Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for his opening statement. As he said, the regulations are quite technical in nature. I do not have any difficulty with them. I fully support them. They are important in the context of work proceeding.

In the short time I have, I will focus on the national planning framework and the Minister's efforts to get local authorities to activate their development plans, which are very much part and parcel of the overall aims in terms of additional zoned land and trying to stimulate housing activity. Would he mind giving us a snapshot of where matters stand across the country in the 31 local authority areas? Is he frustrated at the lack of progress in relation to the opening up of the development plans? Some local authorities have been quite active on it, but others are less so. I would appreciate it if the Minister could give us a snapshot, particularly as this is part of what we are discussing.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Some 26 local authorities indicated their intention to publish a notice to vary their development plan. Of those, 23 indicated their intention is to publish notices to vary their development plans in quarter 4. The remaining three local authorities of the 26 indicated their intention is to publish a notice to vary their development plan in quarter 1 and quarter 2 of 2026. There is no firm commitment yet from the other five local authorities. However, we are engaging with every local authority. Some are moving quite quickly and others are far more lethargic in terms of what they should be doing. I am bringing in all the local authorities. I am focusing in particular in the coming weeks and into January on those that are not moving as quickly as we would expect. This will very much come into focus when the first local authority finishes its variation and other local authorities are coming up with unrealistically long timelines. They need to move as quickly as possible. There is no reason for them not to do this at a very fast pace, albeit ensuring that any variation is correct and land is appropriately zoned.

Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is frustrating. One of the first messages the Minister gave on coming to office was the need to open up the national planning framework and the additional zoned land that is required. He effectively commenced that process in April. It will be well and truly past April of next year before many of the local authorities will conclude the process and additional zoned land will be designated. That is frustrating given where we are with housing, the need for every lever to be utilised and for additional land to be made available.

When development plans were reviewed previously, sufficient headroom was not left. Only a certain percentage of zoned land has been activated. It is critically important that there is sufficient headroom on this occasion. That is a message the Minister has been trying to articulate. It is frustrating that many of the local authorities have been slow to follow what he has asked them to do in this respect. It is important that we keep the pressure on because it is an essential part of housing supply. Compact growth on brownfield sites, and the development of increased density and apartments are important but the additional zoning is critical.

Are there ongoing meetings with the local authorities in respect of this matter?

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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There are regular daily interactions with local authorities across the State by the Department to identify where, in some cases, this may not be getting the priority it deserves and to get the message across that it is a national priority. In some cases, it may just be giving comfort or providing explanations as to what local authorities can or cannot do and how this should be implemented. There may be legitimate questions from some local authorities. The key point is that people move expeditiously to using additional land. There is a need to ensure the land that is zoned is appropriate land, namely land that can be used to provide additional housing and that is not located in, for example, floodplains or whatever.

Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister. I will leave it at that.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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Is this an amendment to primary legislation through secondary legislation? If it is, what legal basis is there for doing it?

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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We are satisfied that we have the legal basis for doing it. That is provided for. All our advice in that regard comes from our legal team. Section 4(6) of the Planning and Development Act 2024 states that the Minister has the power to do anything which appears necessary or expedient to remove any difficulty that has arisen in the context of bringing a provision of the Act into operation or in relation to operation of such provision. This is an extraordinary reform of our planning laws. Such reform has not happened at this scale since 1961. There are myriad Planning and Development Acts out there, including, in particular, the 2000 Act. When bringing in this level of reform, it depends on the size of the legislation. However, there is an allowance whereby there may be a technical amendment needed that will not have a significant impact on the legislation. The Attorney General's advice is that in these types of situations, it can be done by way of secondary legislation.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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Am I correct in stating that this amendment to primary legislation is being done through secondary legislation?

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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It is. Correct.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Minister publish the legal advice he received which indicates that he can do this?

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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There is no necessity for that. As the Deputy knows, we never publish the Attorney General's advice. Section 4(6) of the Planning and Development Act 2024 empowers me to do whatever is necessary. We have the Attorney General's advice. When eh Act was being developed, we would have had the Attorney General's advice as well. It is open to anybody who does not believe that we are acting lawfully to take steps. That is what judicial reviews are there for.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am not looking to go down that road. I am just asking a question about changing primary legislation through secondary legislation. That is something I have not heard of. I spoke to my colleague Deputy Eoin Ó Broin and he stated that he has never seen or heard of this before. The Minister is saying that there is legal advice. I am not doubting his word, but that legal advice should obviously be published. My concern relates to whether this could be challenged through the courts and whether, as a result, we would end up in a much longer process. Is there a possibility that could happen?

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Anybody can challenge anything in the courts. That is the reality. Whether they will succeed or not is a different matter. I do not believe they will succeed. We have strong advice from the Attorney General in relation to this. I cannot prevent anybody taking legal action.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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These regulations are really technical. I cannot remember the phrase he used, but the Minister made the point that when it is a technical amendment-----

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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It is not substantive to the legislation.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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Yes. The Minister feels because it is technical and not substantiative that this can be done.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I believe so. It is provided for in the legislation. We are following the procedure, which includes bringing it to the committee today, and it falls within the provisions of the Act. There are other examples of similar provisions in legislation. I do not have them to hand, but I am sure I can get them for the Deputy. There is a balance to be struck in terms of the complexity and size of the legislation versus the substantiveness or otherwise of the change. We could not use this to make significant changes to the legislation or anything like that.

I can give the Deputy two examples. These are section 202 of the Residential Tenancy Act 2024 and section 3 of the Non-Use of Motor Vehicles Act 2013.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have never read those. When the Minister talks about substantiveness, he is saying that what is proposed will dramatically increase the amount of zoned land.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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The primary legislation facilitates the significant increasing of the amount of zoned land. This technical amendment simply facilitates a change in the time for the transition in order that we can save existing variations that may commence. There is no policy change here; it is simply extending the time period within the legislation. That is why it is considered to be technical in nature rather than being substantive, which would require a policy change.

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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I have a couple of points I wish to raise in respect of the Bill. I understand what the Minister set out to the effect that primary legislation is not at issue here. The broad thrust of what is proposed involves getting local authorities to zone more land in order to enable their updates to flow downstream in the context of housing need and demand assessments. How will this guarantee the delivery of increased housing and affordable housing? As I have raised with the Minister previously, lots of land can be zoned but there is no guarantee that housing is going to be built on that land. There is concern about this matter and the Department has some measures around it.

Ultimately, there is an issue in that when land is zoned, its value increases. As a result of this, land speculation takes place. We know that land is a substantial factor in housing cost. My concern is that local authorities will zone this additional land. It will be bought on the private market and then, essentially, it will either be sat on will go through multiple phases of being sold on with planning permission attached. This has happened over many decades. This goes back to the call to implement the Kenny report back in the 1970s. That report has never been implemented. How is this going to be any different?

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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We have the residential zoned land tax. The aim behind that is to ensure that people do not hoard land. If we do not zone more land, then land will be in even shorter supply. That would drive up the price of land even more and would probably encourage both those who may seek to purchase land to flip it with a view of making a profit and rent-seeker types of individuals. We want people who are going to build on land to own or get access to it, whether that is local authorities, private developers, AHBs or whatever. Increasing supply is essential to both the delivery of homes and ensuring that the price of land can come back down. If there is a small area of land in a town where there is high demand, for example, that land becomes very sought after. As a result-----

Rory Hearne (Dublin North-West, Social Democrats)
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Would a better approach not be for local authorities to buy up the land before it is zoned?

Therefore, one would avoid that and the State would really lead in terms of masterplaning, developing out and keeping house prices low. We have the Land Developing Agency now competing in the market for land and it could be argued it is pushing up prices as well rather than the State, as happens in other countries, playing a key role. In the Netherlands, for example, it buys that land and ensures that it contracts, in many cases, private builders to build on it. It is by controlling the land element and the price of it that one keeps prices low. A fundamental problem of our planning system is that it is market-led and market-dependent. Yes, the local authorities zone the land and step back and hope we will see development on it but we need to see a much more proactive State.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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We want local authorities to own land and in a lot of areas they do not own enough land. It is always open to local authorities to buy land, whether zoned or not zoned. We are working with them and trying to make that part of our new housing plan in terms of making it easier for local authorities to purchase land. They do have their own process to purchase land if they want to and they have their own variation powers to rezone that land for their own purposes. I would like to see local authorities doing that more. I do not think there is any particular reason they should not buy up land and rezone it themselves, if they feel it is appropriate. I do not want local authorities buying pricey land that was priced up as a result of them zoning it. If local authorities need land, they should be going out to CPO it and taking steps to ensure that.

In respect of the regulations in front of us, this to ensure that whatever local authorities are doing that they can continue with the processes they have commenced already because it is those which started the earliest, if you like, and most proactive, will be the ones most impeded as a result of this technical regulation, for a transitionary period, not being approved.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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To be honest, I am gravely concerned by all of this, following on from the last questions. The entire zoned land bank should be in public ownership. If we need to zone more land, it should all be owned by local authorities or the State in some shape or form, so there cannot be speculation. There is nothing in what the Minister has said to give us any comfort that there will not be rampant speculation. As soon as this land is owned, assuming it is in private hands, its value will immediately go through the roof. The Government will be enriching people. Why on earth would we enrich private landowners in the current climate rather than ensuring that the State owns that land? It will probably involve letting private builders building on land but where the Government controls it and ensures that there is not speculation and it that keeps the price down, which is a major contributory factor to the unaffordability of the stuff that is being built at the moment.

Maybe these are available, and the Minister can point me to where they are, but can we have the basic facts and figures? How much zoned land is there? How many planning permissions are unactivated? From what I can see from the guidelines is that the reason the Minister has said that local authorities can go 50% beyond the baseline is not that in many cases there is not enough zoned land but that the zoned land has unactivated permissions. In other words, there is already people speculating on it. So the Minister is saying we will zone more but it is, potentially, just extending the problem. We need the evidence for all of this.

There are 9,000 unactioned permissions in Dún Laoghaire which would be sufficient to meet the housing needs of the county, so there is not actually any need for any rezonings. I am not saying we should not rezone but I am absolutely against us just willy-nilly rezoning if it is just going to enrich private owners of land but not guarantee housing delivery or affordable housing delivery and, potentially, be another area of speculation. What does the Minister say about that? Can we have the hard evidence on this? How many permissions are there, how much zoned land is there, how many units could that deliver and how much of it is unactioned?

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I am happy to get that for the committee. I will get the number of unactioned planning permissions and the amount of zoned land across the country. Across Dublin, it is about 44,000 but I do not have the figure for where existing planning permission where there is no works ongoing or have not commenced. I do not have the figure for the wider country off the top of my head but I will certainly get it, and the amount of zoned land across the country. I will get that sent to the committee.

The national planning framework has been through a significant process over the past number of years. It has identified a need for additional zoning to build more homes. We do need more zoning to ensure there is competition in the market as well to get homes built. There is a residential zoned land tax to target those who are land hoarding in relation to the delivery of homes as well.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Surely the Minister recognises that the residential zoned land tax has been completely ineffective. Quite a few years ago, the figure was 50,000 and it is now 44,000 in Dublin, so there is land hoarding and land banking. Who will decide at a local authority level? Who will make recommendations? Who is lobbying for particular lands to be rezoned? The system is wide open to corruption, so the Minister needs to give us some serious reassurance. We need the hard facts on this, that this is necessary and is not going to be the subject of massive speculation and hoarding thus exacerbating the problems that created the crisis in the first place.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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The additional zoned land is very much necessary for the predicted number of homes needed over the coming decade. That is why land does need to be rezoned. There are robust measures in local authorities. It is the local authorities that will decide what land is zoned. My Department and myself will have no role in that. Matters need to, and will be, done in a transparent manner. People can examine what is proposed. There are public consultations, so people can look at what land is proposed to be rezoned and have input in relation to that. It needs to be voted on by the local authority for this land to be rezoned.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I thank the Minister and apologies for being late but we have an event upstairs. Deputy Boyd Barrett mentioned the hoarding of land. Will the regulation have an impact on that? Are there any protections there?

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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We are discussing a technical regulation to facilitate a transitionary measure to allow the local authorities that have already commenced variations to continue that variation without having to start again. We commence certain sections under Part 3 of the new Planning and Development Act 2024.

On land hoarding, the residential land tax is the main measure to ensure there no hoarding. We do not want people owning land and hoarding it. We want people to build on land and if they are not, then there should be consequences.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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On the impact for the delivery of homes, has the Minister got a number or percentage for the difference that this will make? How many extra homes will result from this?

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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It is about delivering enough extra homes for the need set out in the national planning framework over the coming years. It is not about delivering homes in and of itself. It is about ensuring that we have enough land zoned on which homes will be delivered and ensuring we have a sufficient number of homes. The purpose of it is to ensure we have enough land zoned, whether social, affordable or private.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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In my own area of County Kildare, we were basing our zoning and housing growth requirements on previous data. Is the Minister confident that this will be based on present and up to date targets?

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Yes. I am satisfied that the targets are correct and there is an uplift allowed in it for local authorities, so that we have sufficient land zoned.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I thank the Minister.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I will say a couple of words myself and then we might get another minute in to wrap things up. To me, this makes sense. We need the local authorities identifying and zoning suitable land for development. I believe the change in the residential zone tax thing to Revenue was necessary because there were a lot of local authorities where land that was zoned was not being developed. That is a positive and we need to look at whether, if lands have not been utilised for a certain number of years, we should dezone them and rezone land that is going to be developed on. That is my idea. However, I also support local authorities going out, buying lands in advance and having it ready for social, affordable or low-cost rental homes. They need to be a bit more proactive. If I am right, although we are not delving into the housing plan, moneys are there for local authorities to go out and purchase brownfield sites and have them ready and have a land bank for the future.

We will give one minute to three members here. I call on Deputy Gould.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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I will be very brief. The one thing that comes to my mind now when we are talking about this amendment is that local authorities put a huge amount of time and effort into developing local city or county development plans. Resources have had to be pulled from every part of local authorities to put these plans together. A lot of meetings were done with councillors, officials and outside bodies to bring forward development plans, and now they are all going back. Have additional resources been given to local authorities? The Minister said some people are not where he wants them to be and he feels they are dragging their heels. However, a huge amount of time and energy was spent doing these plans. What that led to then was local authorities falling behind in all different areas. Then, when the development plan is delivered and passed, they all go back to their original jobs and they are playing catch-up. Now, they are being pulled again. The Minister needs to look at resourcing for local authorities. If he is really serious-----

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I said one minute. We are going to move around so the Deputy might stick with that.

Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)
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I will finish on one other thing. I will give an example. Cork City Council zoned land and was told to take it out. In its city development plan, it zoned extra land and had to pull out land that was zoned because it was told to do so. Cork City Council is now having to go back and put back in land it had already excluded. We are all over the place.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We will go around and take Deputy Boyd Barrett next for one minute.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Does the Minister accept that the residential zoned land tax is simply not working and that we need more robust, aggressive, use-it-or-lose-it provisions to ensure we do not have speculation and hoarding? Second, why would the Government not support all of the new zoned land being bought up by the local authorities to guarantee there is not speculation on it and that it will be given to people who are actually intending to build housing that will benefit people in need of housing?

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has 30 seconds.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputies. Regarding Deputy Gould's question, we have assigned additional resources to local authorities but some local authorities are under serious pressure because while resources are assigned and funded, getting the experienced critical staff is a challenge for them. I am very conscious of that and of working with those local authorities and the Department of enterprise in terms of work permits and with the Minister, Deputy Lawless, in the Department of further education to ensure we have people going into these areas of speciality, particularly around planning. Land has been dezoned as a result of decisions by the OPR. That is what the OPR is there for, an independent assessment. However, our population has grown, so what may not have been necessary in the last national planning framework may now become necessary as a result of the increased population and, therefore, more zoning may be required.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I want to move things on if I could. I want to let Deputy McGrath and Senator McCarthy come in for a minute and we might wrap up then. I want to put it to the members for agreement.

Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will be very brief. I want to hit the good road back to Cork soon. On a serious note, I fully support the need for local authorities to acquire greater land banks. That is very important. Local authorities with which I am familiar, unfortunately, have not been proactively acquiring land. There are issues with the supply line of land to allow them to develop social, affordable and cost-rental properties. It is an important message to take back.

To Deputy Boyd Barrett's point, I think we can be smarter about local authorities acquiring land at a reasonable value prior to that land being necessarily designated for housing. We definitely need to explore that more, but we have a particular crisis now that we need to address and make progress on. Therefore, these are important regulations to get approval on here today.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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As the Minister knows, in my own background, I am involved in homelessness and housing people. We have an approved housing body. Nobody more than me wants the Minister to success in his role and I am fully supportive of trying to get housing numbers out there and increase them. Since coming in here, I have been trying to see where the blockage is and how we can unblock that gridlock and move it forward. I really want to support further housing. I am hoping the numbers are realistic and not what we had in the past and that they are based on a recent census.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I will give 30 seconds to the Minister to come back to Deputy Boyd Barrett's question.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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We want local authorities to have land banks, because they are the ones who will build homes along with affordable housing bodies, but it is also the private market. We do need private homes being built by those in the private market who have the capacity to build homes, that is, builders and developers.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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That concludes our consideration. I propose that the committee request the clerk of the committee to inform the Dáil and Seanad accordingly. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I thank the Minister and his officials for assisting the committee in its consideration of this matter today. That concludes-----

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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May I ask a procedural question? Is it not the Dáil that is going to make the final decision on this? There is now going to be a debate because I asked for that at the Business Committee. There will be a debate on Wednesday.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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After the vote.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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According to the Business Committee and the Chief Whip, there will be a debate on Wednesday.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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It is a matter for the Business Committee. I am not aware one way or the other.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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That is not my understanding.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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It is for the Business Committee to make whatever decisions.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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It is done by us. We are agreeing-----

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We are agreeing-to move it to the next stage, back into the Dáil.

Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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-----to move it back into the Dáil and then the Business Committee will decide what way it is to be left. The meeting stands adjourned until 2 December, when the committee will next meet in public session.