Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Tuesday, 25 November 2025
Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Planning Regulations for Solar Farms: Discussion
2:00 am
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I advise members of the constitutional requirement that members must be physically present within the confines of Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings.
Planning regulations for solar farms aim to balance renewable energy goals with environmental and community considerations. To ensure the correct balance is struck, it is important that the regulations accurately address issues such as site suitability, environmental impact and glint and glare. Today, I am pleased the committee has the opportunity to consider this and other related matters with representatives of the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI. From the Department, I welcome Mr. Paul Hogan, assistant secretary; Ms Lisa Clifford, principal officer; and Mr. Eugene Waters, assistant principal officer. From the SEAI, we are joined by Dr. Fergus Sharkey.
Before we start, I wish to explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practices of the Houses with regard to references witnesses may make to other persons in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected, pursuant to both the Constitution and statute, by absolute privilege.
Witnesses are again reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.
The opening statements have been circulated to members. We plan to publish them. Is that agreed? Agreed.
To commence the committee's consideration, I will ask Mr. Hogan to give his opening statement. If he wants to compact it, I ask him to do so to allow more time for questions thereafter. I will say the same to Dr. Sharkey. I call Mr. Hogan.
Mr. Paul Hogan:
I thank the members for the opportunity to update the committee on proposed planning guidance for solar energy development. I am joined today by my colleagues, Ms Lisa Clifford and Mr. Eugene Waters, who have already been introduced.
The programme for Government reaffirms Ireland's ambitious target of having 8 GW of solar capacity connected to the grid by 2030 to assist with meeting the requirement of 80% of electricity demand supplied by renewables. Solar energy is a growing source of electricity, with circa 2.1 GW of solar power capacity currently installed in Ireland. However, further solar capacity is required for Ireland to meet its domestic and international targets.
The programme for Government also contains a commitment to introduce planning guidelines for solar energy developments. As members will be aware, Chapters 1 to 4, inclusive, of Part 3 of the Planning and Development Act of 2024 came into effect on 2 October 2025, which provides the statutory basis for the national planning framework, NPF, and regional spatial and economic strategies, and introduces provisions for national planning statements. These statements will replace section 28 planning guidelines and, consequently, the solar guidelines, once finalised, will issue as a national planning statement under the 2024 Act. Consequently, work is under way to formulate a draft national planning statement on solar energy development, which will then be environmentally assessed and will be informed by a public consultation, which, in turn, will inform the final version submitted to Government for approval and implementation across the tiers of the planning system. A scoping exercise, which remains at an early stage, is under way to identify the relevant factors, including any appropriate environmental reporting and public consultation requirements, European obligations, such as the renewable energy directive, RED III, and the possible timeframe for publication of the national planning statement.
It is important to highlight, as the committee will be aware, that the planning system as a whole has been the subject of significant reform and enhancement in recent times, principally through the revision of the NPF and the advancement of the Planning and Development Act 2024. These processes will augment the existing planning system, including in relation to the regulation of large-scale solar energy development. The NPF, which was recently reviewed, provides support for renewable energy development, including solar energy developments by informing a spatial hierarchy of plans that cascade to regional and local levels.
The revised NPF includes the introduction of regional renewable electricity capacity allocations for solar generation development to achieve the national targets set out in the Climate Action Plan 2024. These allocations will be integrated into regional, spatial and economic strategies, which will, in turn, inform city and county development plans and will lead to the identification of areas towards which solar energy development will be directed, as well as areas which may not be appropriate for such development.
The Planning and Development Act 2024, which was signed into law on 17 October last year, will deliver a range of measures to enhance the existing legislative framework. The Act provides for the alignment of the plan-making hierarchy to ensure greater consistency between national policy and local implementation, as well as to provide greater certainty for stakeholders at all stages of the planning process.
The Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment and the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine are also working towards the publication of the second phase of the land use review to ensure that optimal land use options inform all relevant Government decisions. The purpose of phase 2 of the land use review was to compile an evidence base for Government and to present a framework to inform and support policymakers and landholders in their decisions for future land use in the context of achieving Ireland’s agricultural, socioeconomic, climate and environmental objectives. Any national planning statement on solar energy must take into careful consideration any finding of the land use review.
Until the finalisation of the national planning statement, it will remain the case that, as with the large majority of development types, there are currently no statutory planning guidelines that deal with solar energy development. Notwithstanding that, the existing and evolving planning system, supported by Government policy more generally, provides a sufficiently robust policy and legislative framework to facilitate the roll-out of solar energy development in a sustainable manner and to assist with meeting our renewable electricity requirements while balancing the perspectives of local communities and allowing for public and stakeholder engagement. Planning guidelines introduced in due course will complement that policy and legislative framework.
Public participation is an important element of all substantive decision-making processes under the Planning and Development Act 2000 and the recently enacted Planning and Development Act 2024. It is likely that the proposed draft national planning statement for solar energy development will be subject to strategic environmental assessment and that a public consultation will be held as part of this process, whereby individuals and stakeholders, including community groups, will have the opportunity to make observations on the draft national planning statement.
I again thank the members for the opportunity to address them today. Solar energy will be a critical part of Ireland’s efforts to meet its legally binding obligations with regard to renewable energy production. There is a need to ensure that any national planning statement balances both the importance of the roll-out of renewable energy with the perspectives of local communities. I welcome any questions and look forward to the discussion.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Hogan. I call Dr. Sharkey to make his opening statement on behalf of the SEAI.
Dr. Fergus Sharkey:
I thank the committee for the invitation to attend the meeting today to discuss planning regulations for solar farms. The SEAI’s mission is to be at the heart of Ireland’s energy revolution. We are funded by the Government through the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment and the Department of Transport. In 2025, our total budget allocation is over €800 million.
Ireland’s energy transition is not only critical to meeting our international and national climate obligations, but is also an opportunity to enhance our society by making our homes, schools, hospitals and workplaces more comfortable, protecting the most vulnerable in energy poverty, reducing dependence on imported fossil fuels and volatile energy markets, and improving air quality and our natural environment. A major pillar of Ireland’s energy transition is increasing the share of our electricity produced from renewable sources and using low-carbon electricity for heat and transport.
Solar PV is a significant technology in this transition and has many positive attributes such as speed of deployment and its ability to be used on the roofs of homes and businesses, directly reducing energy costs and emissions at point of use. Solar PV, at a utility scale, that is, solar farms, and at a rooftop level in homes and businesses will both be required at large scale to accelerate our renewable electricity production. Indeed, the Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, and the ESB recently announced that 2 GW of solar PV had been installed in Ireland in just a few short years as part of our target of achieving 8 GW by 2030. This is, of course, in addition to the deployment of other renewables, such as onshore and offshore wind, and also the grid infrastructure, interconnection, energy storage and conventional generation required to operate our future electricity system.
The SEAI has been central to a recent rooftop solar revolution in Ireland, with our domestic PV grant supporting nearly 100,000 homes to date with over €200 million in grant aid, and our more recent commercial grant supporting over 2,000 businesses with over €25 million in grant aid in 2024 and 2025 alone. The SEAI has a limited role in relation to solar farm regulation or planning. Our role is to advise and promote sustainable solutions more generally, and we work with colleagues across government to provide them with advice or analysis that can support their functions in areas such as planning.
In relation to utility scale solar farms, the SEAI has been engaged in some relevant activity in recent years that may be of interest to the committee members. We support the development of local authority renewable energy strategy methodologies. This methodology is under review with a view to supporting a regional renewable electricity strategy, RRES, for each region. We are also currently leading a multi-year study, the decarbonised electricity system study, DESS, which will explore pathways to eliminate greenhouse gas emissions from the Irish electricity system. We provide advice and guidance to the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment and the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage on the extension of exempted development for rooftop solar PV, which has been successfully adopted, reducing the need for planning permission in most rooftop installations. We also funded the development of solar farm planning guidelines in 2016, at the early stages of the sector, which have since been further developed by solar representative bodies. In 2023, we also published the results of a survey of people’s attitudes towards commercial solar and wind farms. Overall, attitudes were very positive, with over 80% of people reporting positive attitudes towards solar farms. The strongest results were provided by people who live within 1 km of solar farms. We provide support as well to community-led solar projects through our community enabling framework.
The SEAI views solar farms as a vital part of our energy transition, coupled with a range of approaches to produce renewable electricity and electrify heat and transport. In the energy transition, it is never either-or with the available technologies. We need to accelerate the adoption and installation of all available low-carbon technologies at a pace and couple this with reductions in energy demand. There is, understandably, some resistance to any infrastructure, although the 2023 SEAI survey would indicate that negative perceptions of solar farms are isolated to a minority. Solar farms are relatively low impact in terms of visual, noise and construction when compared to other renewable or conventional power generation technologies.
The use of agricultural land for solar farms is often a topic of discussion, but the SEAI would note the amount of land covered by solar today and even by 2050, it will remain a very small percentage of overall land use. Some agriculture can continue on this land while the solar equipment is in place and the decommissioning and removal after the life of the solar plant is also relatively straightforward, with no long-term impact on the land. Decisions around land use and trade-offs between competing national priorities need to be considered in many aspects of the energy transition. This is needed at national and local level to inform citizens and the planning process. Strong local consultation on solar farms by developers and opportunities for community-led solar farms should be strongly encouraged and are essential to get local buy-in and create local opportunities from solar farms.
I welcome a discussion with the committee and we will be happy to answer any questions the members may wish to raise.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I thank Dr. Sharkey. I now give the members an opportunity to contribute. I ask them to direct their questions to the representatives of one or both organisations. I ask anyone online to raise their hand. We have a small number of members here, so we will start off with five minutes per member for questions and answers. I ask the witnesses to try to be concise in their answers from a time perspective. If we get a chance, we will go back around again. I call Deputy Séamas McGrath.
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach. I also thank the representatives from the Department and the SEAI for coming in. From a personal point of view, I very much favour solar energy. I realise it is an important part of our future in trying to build up our renewable energy output. As we know, there is an ambitious target of installing 8 GW by 2030. The 80% renewable target by 2030 is equally ambitious, but achievable if we can pull all the levers at our disposal to try to make these things happen.
I was a county councillor for many years until the general election last year. The issue of guidelines for solar farms often came up for discussion. It was certainly the case that the elected members at local level felt there was a planning vacuum concerning decision-making on solar farm planning applications. The council had to make a decision on these applications but there was an absence of planning policy around them. I studied the Department's opening statement. What would be the response to the charge that there is currently a vacuum there from a planning policy point of view in relation to the assessment of these planning applications?
I ask Mr. Hogan to be reasonably brief.
Mr. Paul Hogan:
The planning system has to be open to accommodating all forms of development. We cannot prescribe and anticipate absolutely everything. We do not regulate use of farmland, but development. Solar energy development is a form of development the planning system is capable of accommodating within the existing legislative and policy framework. What is important to consider is the receiving environment in terms of what we are talking about, so clearly-----
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the one hand, we are saying the policy is there but, on the other, we are working on the national planning statements, which we consider necessary. What is the approximate timeline in relation to the national-----
Mr. Paul Hogan:
Further to the commencement of the 2024 planning Act last month, there is a significant programme of national planning statements to do. The committee can understand that we are prioritising the statements that relate to housing and things like apartment guidelines, zoning land, rural housing, etc. Realistically, renewables are up there among the priorities but it will be some time next year before we get to them. In the meantime, we have the industry guidelines produced in 2023 as best practice. They were supported by the SEAI.
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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They will largely focus on greenfield developments, I presume, as opposed to what was mentioned earlier in relation to further roll-out of rooftop. Is it both or mainly greenfield in relation to the national planning statements?
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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A combined approach. I know from my local area the concern is not necessarily in relation to solar panels in fields adjacent to people but battery storage. That is a source of significant concern. Is that also going to be part and parcel of the national planning statements?
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, but it is often associated with an application.
Mr. Paul Hogan:
They are different things and they have different levels of consideration. There are different criteria that may be applied. We have not made any decision as to whether to include the battery storage element as part of the guidelines or not. It would be very hard to produce a set of guidelines and not refer to it.
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I agree. It has to be part of it because it is the area that causes significant concern among local residents when applications come before councils.
I will turn Dr. Sharkey briefly and I hope I will get the opportunity to come back again. He mentioned in his statement in relation to the rooftop approach that it would have to be a combined approach in terms of greenfield, brownfield, rooftops and so on, which is critical. What potential does he believe there is for the roll-out of rooftop solar panels? I know the SEAI has been very proactive in grants and supporting such initiatives. Will he give us a snapshot of where he believes the potential lies?
Dr. Fergus Sharkey:
The 8 GW target is broken down into 5.5 GW of utility scale solar farms and 2.5 GW of non-utility. That is the broad target. That would certainly be achievable in the rooftop space. Even if you break down the 2 GW that is connected already, approximately half is utility and half is commercial and homes. I think there is in excess of 500 MW, or half a gigawatt, on homes already.
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Just to clarify, Dr. Sharkey is saying it will be 5.5 GW and 2.5 GW going forward.
Dr. Fergus Sharkey:
If one looks at the breakdown in the climate action plan 2024 - I do not think there is a breakdown in the current one - a significant portion of it could be achieved with rooftop. Of course, the challenge with that is you have to convince hundreds of thousands of homeowners and tens of thousands of businesses to invest in the technology. Given the pace at which that can happen, we need both, effectively, which was the point I made in my opening statement.
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I know my time is up but I would argue the public sector has an obligation to lead on this in terms of public buildings owned across the country. Only a small percentage have solar panels on the roof. We should be doing an awful lot more as a State in showing leadership in this area. Perhaps we can come back to that.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Mr. Hogan and Dr. Sharkey for their opening statements. It is important to acknowledge it is not this committee's job to get involved in individual planning disputes about solar farms or any other matter. It is also not the primary business of this committee to deal with issues of renewable energy. I know we are all very interested in it but our focus needs to be on ensuring the planning system, be it for solar, onshore or offshore wind or other categories of development, is fit for purpose to meet the needs of different categories of development, commercial and community, and also the wider community interests and environmental and biodiversity interests. It is in that context that my questions are focused.
I fully appreciate that Mr. Hogan's section of the Department has probably been the most overburdened with work over the past number of years with the maritime planning framework and the Planning and Development Act. Those comprise substantial volumes of work. My following comment is not a criticism of him and his team but it is an acknowledgement that there is a growing list of guidelines, now policy statements, that have been stuck somewhere in the system for quite a long time. We have solar, onshore wind farm, rural, Gaeltacht and island planning guidelines. There is the separate ongoing consideration of the policy statement on apartment guidelines, although I will not mention that particular battle here today. While I hear Mr. Hogan say the current framework is robust, it is clearly not robust enough to ensure the best quality of decision-making, otherwise the Department would not be doing a national policy statement on the matter. For those of us who do not necessarily understand, will Mr. Hogan explain the detail of what it meant when he said, "the existing and evolving planning system, supported by Government policy more generally, provides a sufficiently robust policy and legislative framework to facilitate the roll-out of solar energy development"? For those of us who do not know the detail of how that operates in real time, will he talk us through it? If that is robust, what is the rationale - I am not against it per se - for the Department doing a policy statement?
One of the very significant changes to the national planning framework was legally binding regional targets for all categories of renewable energy including solar. Will Mr. Hogan talk us through how those targets relate to what is actually happening on the ground? One assumes the purpose of the planning policy statement is to ensure the meeting of those targets in the national planning framework. If we do not get the balance right between the different interests in the planning decision-making, that will be quite tricky.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Excuse my ignorance, but is there a current set of section 28 ministerial guidelines dealing with the issue of solar?
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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There is no value in telling us section 28 guidelines will be replaced by the national planning statements if there are no section 28 guidelines on the issue at hand.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I apologise, but to go back to the original question, is Mr. Hogan saying there are no section 28 guidelines but there are industry guidelines or industry practice?
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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If I am a planning authority, to what do I go to frame the policies in the development plan or individual decisions on whether it is a community solar or large industry-scale solar? Surely it is not just an industry set of guidelines.
Mr. Paul Hogan:
I would not underestimate the capacity of the planners in our planning system to deal with different types of development. That is the nature of the role. It is to take on board the characteristics of the development and the receiving environment and make a call as to what is appropriate and what is not. The relevant issue is-----
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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That is a terribly decentralised argument for the Department to make. I am not arguing against it but-----
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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My question remains the same. When Mr. Hogan describes the current system as robust, when a local authority is reviewing its development plan - which some will start quite soon - or when decisions are being made, to what do they go to frame the planning policy on solar other than a set of industry guidelines? Is there anything else apart from industry guidelines?
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Is there anything else in place currently?
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Again, apologies for being persistent on this but my question is still this: Mr. Hogan is telling us the regime in place currently is robust and I am trying to understand, as someone who has never had to deal with this given the constituency I represent, what are the reference points for a local authority in designing its planning policy in its current development plan or informing the decision-making of the planning authority when it comes to solar.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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The targets I am clear on.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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But my question is not about the targets - and I am not objecting to those - it is actually about the process of decision making. When we were doing the maritime area planning legislation, we had a similar set of issues which is how you will work out what is an appropriate location, what is permissible, how decisions are made and who gets involved. It seems like there is a bit of a vacuum there, to pick up from Deputy McGrath’s point about when he was on the council. Is that not the case? That is what it sounds like Mr. Hogan is describing. Surely, that means there will be very significant inconsistencies between the types of decisions that local authorities are making, what gets consent and what gets approval.
Mr. Paul Hogan:
No, I would not agree there is a vacuum. It is an opportunity, in a sense, for every local authority in the relevant section of its development plan to address renewable energy infrastructure based on the national policy and the national policy is to accommodate an increase in renewables and in solar development. Local authorities can decide in their overall zoning or land-use matrix what is open for consideration and what is not, depending on relevant criteria. That is independently assessed, as we know, by the planning regulator. That is a policy-making process. That will strengthen as we go forward and we bring forward the regional targets more specifically. At the end of the day it will always be up to the local authority, through its development plan, to decide what is best for its area. Despite what the Deputy said about decentralising or centralising, it is never the intention of the policy-making Department to dictate what can happen on the ground through a development plan -----
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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If I was very cheeky I would say Mr. Hogan said that with a straight face and I am impressed by that but that is a battle we have had many times before.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Chair. He has been very indulgent.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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It is a good time to ask that question as there has been a vote called and I was able to let the Deputy stay on. Apologies, we will have to take a break for about seven or eight minutes so we will suspend.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I call Deputy Joe Cooney.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I thank both witnesses for their opening addresses. I note the target of 8 GW of solar PV to be delivered by 2030 and that 2 GW have been achieved so far. That is good to know. Can they tell me the percentage breakdown between rooftop and utility scales of the 2 GW installed? Is the respective percentage of each built in to the 8 GW targets for 2030? How many acres of land are required per GW of solar?
Dr. Fergus Sharkey:
On the breakdown of the 2 GW, I am not sure but Solar Ireland had a report of a breakdown around three months ago. I understand approximately half of that was solar farms and approximately half of it was various forms of rooftop or commercial installed solar PV. It is roughly half and half to date.
On the 8 GW, the climate action plan 2024 gives a breakdown of 5.5 GW of utility-scale solar and 2.5 GW of what is termed non-utility-scale solar, which would be homes, businesses and also what would generally be called private-wire solar. That may be something that is a solar farm but it is not feeding the grid; it is feeding directly into industry. It would look like a solar farm on the ground but it is not feeding out to the national grid; it is feeding load directly. That is roughly the breakdown of the 8 GW target.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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What about the acres of land required?
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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That is for 1 GW.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Okay. I suspect every member in this room has met communities which have experienced extremely shoddy standards of community engagement in the development of other renewable energy projects. Will the Department commit to including as a requirement in any planning statement on solar energy developments, first, that ,community engagement for any solar PV development is undertaken according to the certified national standard that aligns with the NSAI and second, that the community co-ownership model of renewable energy developments is included where residents from 5 km to 10 km away are invited to invest in the project? That could be a major benefit.
Mr. Paul Hogan:
Obviously, we are committed to public participation in all planning matters. We would certainly include requirements for public participation in relation to proposals for solar energy development either at the planning stage or at the development plan stage, as we discussed earlier.
Community co-ownership is something we would have to give further consideration to. Ultimately this is a decision of a landowner to proceed with a particular form of development and unless it was on public land or there was some other broader policy decision about community ownership we would have to take that into consideration. It is something that would require further consideration, to be honest.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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What about more engagement with the community? A lot of communities are very concerned that there has been very little engagement.
Mr. Paul Hogan:
Most developers who are responsible and who want to achieve their objectives will realise that the best way to do that is to engage with communities, provide the necessary information, try to communicate the benefits of what they are doing and take on board community concerns and adapt their proposals, as necessary. For any form of development, that is a responsible way to proceed. It is something that is encouraged in all cases by the Department in all our guidance. To be honest, for people to achieve their goals and objectives, it is increasingly necessary.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Sometimes the lack of community engagement can be an issue. There have been issues, unfortunately, because people make out they have not been contacted properly or made aware of what it is happening. As we are all aware, at the point when a proposal arrives on the table, the uproar starts.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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I welcome the witnesses. On the need for regulations and guidelines in respect of solar farms, it is timely that we are having this discussion. We probably should have had it five or six years ago. In terms of bringing on the full range of renewables that can be utilised, we have been heavily dependent on wind. Of course, it should be harnessed, but there is the question of how we do that. I have dealt with Mr. Hogan previously at other committees. We are discussing the regulations for solar energy, which is in its infancy, but wind farms are up and running. Large parts of the country have a significant number of these farms. I am a supporter of the utilisation of wind energy, but the guidelines in this area date from 2006. The replies to parliamentary questions I have been receiving for nearly 13 years are all the same. When I open them up, it is a copy-and-paste job. Let us face it, solar has an impact but it does not have a huge impact. Any development has an impact, and we have to accept that. Planning is a balancing act. We have drifted for a decade and a half without putting guidelines or regulations in place. What is happening in that regard?
Mr. Paul Hogan:
The most recent reason for not bringing forward a finalised set of guidelines related to further considerations around noise. We have to work with our colleagues in the Department of climate and energy in relation to that. That work has largely been completed at this stage. We are in a position to translate the work that has been done in order to prepare what were going to be section 28 guidelines under the previous planning Act into the national planning statement. I might bring in my colleague Mr. Waters here.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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I have a few more brief questions. Will we have the guidelines for Christmas?
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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When does Mr. Hogan expect them?
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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Does Mr. Hogan agree that this is taking too long? A system that takes 12 or 15 years-----
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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In one sentence, what is-----
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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When will we see the guidelines? When can we expect them? If not over Christmas, then when?
Mr. Eugene Waters:
As Mr. Hogan mentioned, Part 3 of the new Planning and Development Act is in place. The section 28 guidelines have been overtaken by this new mechanism, which is the national planning statement. That brings a certain number of requirements with it. What we will be doing in the context of the national planning statement is we will be environmentally assessing the guidelines, as is appropriate, and putting them out to full public consultation. At the moment, we are in the process of translating what were the guidelines to date-----
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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In short, because I have other questions. There is a long way to go, according to that reply.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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It needs to be accelerated because we are having development in respect of wind energy in the absence of guidelines or regulations.
There are a couple of points I want to make. Will the witnesses give me a response on a couple of points? With solar, we need to utilise the sites on which the old power stations were located. The grid was built to connect with these sites. They are still there and the grid runs through them. There is a lot of poor land around them, particularly at Portarlington, Shannonbridge and elsewhere. There are roads as well. There is an opportunity to use those sites. In the context of what was said earlier, rather than using prime agricultural land, the land in question should be used. It is important that we keep prime agricultural land because it is needed for other purposes. It is important that we utilise the marginal land that surrounds the old power stations to which I refer in order to harness the energy that can be generated from wind. It is a win-win situation. In terms of drafting guidelines and regulations, the Department should factor that in.
We missed a trick with schools and farm buildings. I have been raising this in the Chamber and other places for about eight or nine years. There are grants available in respect of farm buildings. That is grand and is as it should be. Fine sheds have been built. They are south facing and have flat roofs. Solar panels should have been put in place on them. We need joined-up thinking in that regard. A large number of new schools have also been built. Given that these all have single-tilt roofs, solar panels should have been put in place on them.
My final point is that 95% of our electricity generation was publicly owned in the past. We had a relatively cheap electricity system. We have moved to a situation where the system is 75% privately owned and where we have one of the most expensive electricity systems. Mr. Hogan deals with planning. In terms of his Department's connection with other Departments, the point needs to be made that we need to try to keep control over that. Will Mr. Hogan give a brief response on those points, particularly the one relating to power stations?
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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Bord na Móna owns a lot of it.
Mr. Paul Hogan:
A local authority, through its development plan, can identify suitability. The RED III directive identifies a need for go-to areas for renewables. Again, there are opportunities in that regard.
We brought forward significant exemptions for public buildings like schools, libraries and hospitals in 2022 in order that solar panels could be installed.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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It is now in place under TAMS. That is all right.
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I thank the witnesses for being here. I have a conflict of interest in that I live beside Punchestown Racecourse. A new solar farm going in there. I have a business there, but I also have a farm and a house. When the solar farm was being built, we were all very much of the view that we wanted solar power and that we wanted to improve our infrastructure. However, it was something of a debacle for the developer. A friend of mine owns the site. Many people put in objections, and the matter went to judicial review, etc. I put in an observation to the effect that there is prime land right next door to Punchestown Racecourse. My thinking was why use such prime land when there are other areas that could be used for solar farms. I am not against solar farms. They are brilliant, and we need to harness solar power. Going forward, would a planning strategy whereby areas are zoned for solar be a better way to proceed? Under such a strategy, there would be a national plan regarding zoning such that we would surely avoid appeals and judicial reviews of the kind that happened in my area.
Mr. Paul Hogan:
It is a matter for local authorities to identify, on the basis of relevant criteria, what forms of development are permissible or not permissible. However, they have to take into account national policy objectives, such as, for example, those relating to renewables. Areas could be zoned. We would, perhaps, in some instances encourage more zonings in rural areas where things might be facilitated. As mentioned earlier, the RED III directive introduces the concept of go-to areas and mandates Ireland, through our local authorities, to identify areas for renewable energy development in particular. Solar would fall into that category, obviously.
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I know all the stud farms got together. A lot of the neighbours would not talk to the individual who is developing it because he has got this over the line. This what is going to happen. If we look at the US, there are solar farms everywhere, so it is an accepted form of energy. However, it seems that it is developer-led rather than council-led or strategy-led. Is there a whole rethink needed here?
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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Is there a map of suitable targets or suitable land?
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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Would that be a good idea?
Ms Lisa Clifford:
To come in on this, and it is linked to the renewable energy directive in particular, one of the requirements of the directive is to do exactly that, which is to map suitable areas for the delivery of renewable energy projects, including solar. The public consultation on that ended a couple of weeks ago. Our colleagues in the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment are reviewing those at the moment. On foot of that, there is also requirement under the directive to use that mapping to designate renewable acceleration areas. These are areas that are suitable for renewable energy development that can be accelerated through the consenting system. That is something that is happening at the moment and will require to be transposed into Irish legislation next year. On the mapping question that the Senator had, that process is ongoing at the moment.
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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It would make it much easier. We have to be careful that we are not engaging in NIMBYism - not in my back yard - and we could be accused of that. I want to be very open on that. However, where I am talking about is in the middle of County Kildare surrounded by stud farms, horses everywhere, and this is right in the middle. Is this the best use of that land? Maybe it is or maybe there is an alternative. That is my point. Is there a policy regarding equine lands, if they are equine sensitive lands, that they are marked as not suitable or is it open season for all?
Mr. Paul Hogan:
It is a matter for the local authority. I am not aware of any conflicts between the equine industry and solar farms. Clearly, the people working in Kildare County Council will be aware of the issues related to stud farming and what might be problematic in that context. We are only talking about a small proportion of agricultural land in the country. It is not unreasonable that there would be specific policies in a county like Kildare related to the other priorities of the county.
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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Going forward, are we going to see a lot more solar farms?
Mr. Paul Hogan:
To put it in context, the target is to increase from approximately 2 GW at the moment to 8 GW by 2030, which is quite a significant increase, but we are still talking about less than 0.5% of the area of our agricultural land in the country. Another way of describing it is that, even if we achieve the target, there will still be more land under golf courses than there will be under solar panels.
Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses for their presentation. To start with a bit of good news, Wicklow delivered the largest solar farm back in 2022 without any major problems. Sometimes you look at regulation and it depends on what side of the regulation you are on whether it is positive or negative and it can bring good and bad. In fairness, Wicklow as a council has managed the solar thing quite well. Recently, there were a few decisions that I would question about why they failed and did not get through. In relation to what Senator McCarthy said, we have a lot of zoned land for housing that is appealed and brought to judicial review. Zoning does not guarantee anything either at the end of the day.
There is a significant amount coming under the planning framework. Is it all coming at the one time or are sections of it going to be done over a period of time?
Mr. Eugene Waters:
With the implementation of the Planning and Development Act, one of the key aims is that we would have alignment between the tiers down from national through regional into the local development plans. They have to go sequentially. We had the review of the NPF. We are having capacity targets in relation to renewables at the regional level. Then we move to the local level. With regard to the zoning matter, there is an important balance to be struck there. The purpose of planning is to facilitate the development where somebody puts that application in and considers it. It is important that, while areas can be mapped out for different uses, we do not get into a space where we are prescriptive about that. We might say an area is for housing but it does not mean we are going to get into the nuts and bolts of exactly what that house should look like. It is the same when it comes to each application that has to be considered on its own merits on that end.
Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
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That is where guidelines might help. Two have failed recently in Wicklow. They were enterprise. It was a new enterprise that was attaching a solar farm to it to make it more sustainable. It went down because it was employment land. We have to look at every opportunity to bring solar forward. It is quite positive that enterprise is willing to buy employment land and put solar on it for their own industry to become self-sufficient. I was disappointed with that decision and I did not fully understand it. Maybe that is where guidelines can come in.
In relation to the figures, the one in Ashford was 8 MW and it took 36 ha. That is 4.5 ha per megawatt. That means that, for the utilities, it is probably 24,500 ha that are required to deliver the 5.5 GW. That is the maths I was doing while I was listening. To Dr. Sharkey, can we do more in relation to accelerating this more quickly than what we are at the moment? Is there anything else we could be doing or trying to achieve to accelerate this quicker than we are?
Dr. Fergus Sharkey:
The planning system is a major part of it. There are schemes in place to support the investment in renewable farms, such as the renewable electricity support scheme. It would be the major one. For community-led and SME-led projects, there is the small-scale renewable electricity support scheme, SRESS, where they do not have to auction in. There is a price given. They have a lower hurdle to get over to get support. Ultimately, there are a lot of factors that will lead into the achievement of this target. As I said in my opening statement, it is not just about solar. Offshore would be a major component in achieving our 2030 targets, as would onshore wind. With that, comes big investment in grid infrastructure. From a planning and consenting point of view, there are a lot of challenges there. We have to see solar fitting into an overall ecosystem of delivering our renewable electricity targets. There is no silver bullet to getting that to move quicker. It is a combination of getting private capital, public capital, the policy lined up and incentives lined up. We have done a lot there. We are world leading in our renewable electricity share already, particularly for an isolated grid that is not interconnected to other countries. There are huge challenges to 2030.
Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
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On the battery matter, a lot of people who are in the industry and want to build solar farms also want to build a battery storage facility with that, especially if they are not connected to the grid. They are generating energy all day long. If they do not use it, they need somewhere to store it and use it when it is not available. I ask the witnesses to have some consideration about the battery thing because, as Deputy McGrath said, it can be contentious.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We could have a discussion on battery storage and wind farms sometime in the new year. There is potential for three more votes before 5.30 p.m., so I am going to move things on because we are going to have breaks with the way things are moving. In the absence of regulations, planning applications are coming into local authorities.
Local county councillors come under pressure. Are planners effectively passing these on to An Coimisiún Pleanála to decide on them, with them ultimately going to judicial review, due to the fact that they have no regulations and, possibly, they do not have the resources to spend the significant amount of time it would take to handle an application?
Mr. Paul Hogan:
I do not think so because the reality is that local authority planners can use whatever. As I described earlier, there is a proposal, which must be understood, and the receiving environment, which also must be understood. Obviously, each site will be different but reference points for the key things to look out for are articulated or set out in the industry guidelines and experience from elsewhere, as I referenced earlier. Someone has already indicated that this has not been a hugely difficult roll-out of development. As a new sector, it has increased relatively quickly since 2022 or thereabouts. It has only been three years or a little bit more since we have had any built development in this. The wherewithal is there for people to address this through the planning system and for controls and checks to be put in place. Obviously, guidelines would make things easier and, in an ideal world, we would have up-to-date guidelines for a lot more things.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The EU set a target of 20% for renewable energy. The Aarhus Convention set obligations to include the public in any decisions made in environmental projects. In a recent case taken by the UN economic commission, it was found that, technically, the EU was in breach of the convention by not consulting citizens. What is the barometer for consultation with local communities with regard to planning applications because it does not seem like there is one? That is lost completely. There are planning applications being put in without any proper consultation with the people they affect.
Mr. Paul Hogan:
It is public participation in the planning system. Our system is very open in the sense that third parties are allowed to make representations on planning applications. That is something that does not exist in most other jurisdictions where only directly affected neighbours or, maybe, environmental NGOs can do so. People can participate in the process. They can appeal a decision they do not like and, as we have seen, they can also judicially review it through the courts if they feel it is an unlawful decision. There are a lot of opportunities for people. I accept that that is not ideal because it is coming too late in the process. It would be better to have consultation up front, such as at the development plan stage when the permissible, go-to areas for consideration are dealt with on a county basis. As I was saying, where someone is proposing a development - agencies like EirGrid have realised this in recent years - it is much better to engage with communities in a way that is outside the statutory process first.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Can the Minister make a ministerial order to local authorities to zone specific lands in their next county development plans, as was mentioned by a number of members? In our counties and local areas, we all know areas of less arable land – I suppose that is the best word for it – that could be used rather than prime agricultural land, the use of which is probably driving up the price of land for people in the farming community who are looking to expand or get the younger generation involved. Can a ministerial order be given to the local authorities to do that when they are reviewing their plans or the section 28 guidelines?
Mr. Paul Hogan:
There needs to be a policy basis for a Minister to intervene at that sort of level. It would have to be based on an agreed national planning statement or some other policy area, for example, the climate action plan or something specific related to that. The Minister cannot intervene on an unsubstantiated basis in a local authority plan. The new planning Act will strengthen the regulator’s powers to recommend to the Minister that a direction might be pursued where policy is not being followed, but the Minister will need a policy basis to do that.
Mr. Eugene Waters:
The architecture of the new Act is such that, once the national planning statement is in place and assessed, has gone through consultation and has been approved by the Government, there is a process by which that is cascaded down through the development plan. When the national planning statement on solar is ready and approved, each development plan will be looked at and assessed on whether it needs to be adjusted and aligned to ensure there is consistency across every county.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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The witnesses do not anticipate the Minister using ministerial orders to force councils to-----
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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That is what we have at the minute. It varies all over the country because there is none.
Senator Rabbitte has two minutes.
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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All I want is 30 seconds. What happens when you have a county the size of Galway where half of the county is an SAC and the other side is not? Galway West is a well protected SAC. Everything you ever needed out there, you will not put anything on it. Galway East has to carry the deficit. We are using very good arable land. There is an inequity within counties as well. That is what I am trying to say. It is about how we address and ensure there is a balance and that the people living in the likes of Galway East do not feel they are carrying an extra burden unfairly.
Mr. Paul Hogan:
It comes back to the policy choices we were discussing. We are talking about a relatively small area of the country across the board. That is why the targets that have been set, insofar as targets are set, are at a regional level assembly level. Whatever target is set for the north-west region, which is where Galway is, includes all of the counties from Galway up to Donegal and across to Monaghan.
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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In the 30 seconds I still have, I beg to differ with Mr. Hogan, even though I do not wish to. When one small parish will have 1,000 acres of solar and the parish just 20 miles up the road has 500 acres, that is not balance. Galway is the second largest county in the country but does not have the same proportionality of funding. It is not right that the people of Galway East are expected to take it on the chin like that.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I thank the members. I thank all the representatives from the Department and the SEAI for coming in and giving us their consideration on this today. I propose that we suspend briefly to allow witnesses to take their seats for our next session.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We will continue our discussion on planning regulations around solar farms. I welcome representatives from An Taisce, the Irish Farmers' Association and Foigha Solar Concern Group. From An Taisce, we have Ms Phoebe Duvall, Dr. Elaine McGoff and Mr. Séan O'Callaghan. From the IFA, we have Mr. Bill O'Keeffe and Mr. Robert Malone. From Foigha Solar Concern Group, we have Mr. Damien Mulvihill, Mr. Kieran Ledwith and Ms Denise Moran.
Before we start, I wish to explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practices of the Houses with regard to references witnesses may make to other persons in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected, pursuant to both the Constitution and statute, by absolute privilege.
Witnesses are again reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.
The opening statements have been circulated to members. We plan to publish the opening statements. Is that agreed? Agreed.
To commence the committee's consideration, I will ask witnesses to condense their opening statements down to one minute if they can. I invite Ms Duvall to make the opening remarks on behalf of An Taisce.
Ms Phoebe Duvall:
We are in the midst of a serious climate and biodiversity crisis while also facing significant energy security concerns. Therefore, An Taisce is in principle very supportive of solar farm development that is fully compliant with our legal obligations and that recognises the intertwined nature of the climate and biodiversity crises. Solar energy also needs to be developed on foot of detailed and inclusive forward planning.
Teagasc estimates that we need up to 16,000 ha of land for solar farms to achieve our 8 GW target using large-scale solar arrays. While this is ultimately quite a small portion of the national land bank, we nevertheless need detailed and evidence-based forward planning to designate suitable areas for solar farms as part of a holistic and balanced land use strategy. We are currently lacking a comprehensive national spatial plan for solar energy. The renewable energy directive, RED, III requires national territory mapping to identify areas suitable for renewables. Based on the recent consultation on this, most counties currently have no spatial designations for solar. We need to ensure that there is consistency of approach here via transparent, evidence-based, nationally set criteria. This is particularly important when it comes to designating renewables acceleration areas, under RED III, which may be subject to truncated environmental assessments. At the same time, we need to ensure this is aligned with the regional renewable electricity capacity allocations in the national planning framework. Furthermore, we are still awaiting the publication of phase 2 of the national land use review, and while the findings of this will not explicitly deal with renewables, they need to be considered in developing a spatial plan for solar nationally, particularly regarding the balancing of renewables development with other land uses.
Sensitive siting of renewables infrastructure is of paramount importance to ensure that our decarbonisation efforts do not come at the expense of further biodiversity loss and environmental degradation. It is also imperative that these forward planning processes incorporate meaningful public engagement.
We are aware that the Department of housing is in the early scoping phases of preparing a national planning statement for solar development. While we are also aware this will require strategic environmental assessment and therefore public participation on the draft statement, we strongly recommend that public consultation also take place prior to this in the scoping process, so that views can be reflected in the draft and any issues can be brought to light early. While we urgently need to get renewable energy onstream, the introduction of the accelerated RED III planning application process comes with various potential pitfalls that could lead to flawed decisions and end up delaying the roll-out of solar. There is always a risk of this with the imposition of mandatory timelines if they are not realistic and the RED III planning process is operating within an Irish policy context which continues to be in systemic non-compliance with key EU environmental directives such as the birds and habitats directives.
As a membership organisation, An Taisce is regularly contacted by members of the public with planning queries. Over recent months, we have experienced a significant uptick in the number of people contacting us with concerns about solar farms. It cannot be denied that solar-----
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I have to interrupt as we are way over time. Time will be tight because of votes in the Chamber so I want to give committee members an opportunity. My apologies.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I ask Mr. O'Keeffe to keep his statement short.
Mr. Bill O'Keeffe:
I thank the Chairman and members for inviting the IFA to address the committee today on this very important issue. Solar energy generation has evolved rapidly over the past ten years. The cost of solar energy generation, both from solar farms and rooftop solar, has reduced significantly over the past decade. The cost of installing solar panels has reduced while the energy generation ability of these panels has improved over the past ten years, to the point where energy generation from solar and onshore wind turbines are now the most cost-effective form of energy generation in Ireland.
Solar generation capacity has grown rapidly, from a standing start just a few years ago to a total of around 1.7 GW in 2024. The target is to have 8 GW from solar energy by 2030 under the Government’s climate action plan. This is equivalent to roughly 16,000 ha or 40,000 acres of solar farms. It was mentioned earlier that this is not a significant area but it is the equivalent of 500 average family farms.
Roof-top solar is a cost-efficient method of generating low-emission energy within Ireland. Roof-top solar panels are now a common sight on many commercial buildings, and increasingly so on farm buildings. Roof-top solar systems are cost efficient and allow farmers to invest in renewable energy that will typically have a payback period of between four and seven years. They can also avail of grant funding through the targeted agricultural modernisation scheme, TAMS, and accelerated capital allowances, which reduce the payback time considerably. Farm solar systems are designed and installed to meet average on-farm energy usage. There is also the ability for excess energy to be stored in battery systems and exported back to the grid.
The IFA is fully supportive of roof-top solar production and has a commercial interest in assisting farmers in installation through the joint venture with Bord Gáis. Further promotion of roof-top solar is needed if Ireland is to reach its emissions reduction targets by 2030. There is currently grant funding available through TAMS, with up to 60% grant funding available. However, there are real fears that the funding provided to support TAMS roof-top solar will not be sufficient to meet future demand from farmers seeking to install roof-top solar energy systems. The IFA is seeking a dedicated renewable energy grant scheme, separate from TAMS, with funding provided from the €3 billion Climate and Nature Fund for on-farm renewable investments, including roof-top solar.
While roof-top solar is universally supported by farmers and local communities, there are concerns and a level of opposition in certain areas around the development of large-scale solar farms, which are increasing in size, covering hundreds of acres of land in some cases. The main concern among some farmers is the loss of productive agricultural land to solar farms. Many developments of large-scale solar farms have taken place on some of Ireland’s most productive land. Farmland, especially good quality farmland, is an emotive asset among farmers, and the removal of good agricultural land from food production does not sit well with some farmers. Either way, it is imperative that proper planning guidelines are put in place that take account of the concerns of farmers, but also allow for the ongoing development of solar energy, where deemed appropriate.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. O'Keeffe. Now we will move on to Ms Moran.
Ms Denise Moran:
I thank the members of the committee for the opportunity to speak. We are here because there are no planning guidelines for solar farms. In south Longford alone there are 1,000 acres of solar proposals already on the table. The county development plan suggests 60 acres yet 320 acres have already been approved. Rural communities are losing their identities, amenities and ability to survive economically. We are just asking for a number of things. We should lead with a national strategy, not developer maps. Developers are deciding where these solar farms go. Government should decide suitable locations consistent with housing, food production, tourism, and environmental protection. It should consult communities early, not after decisions are made. Private companies are not consulting with the communities. People deserve a genuine say in their future. Proper siting rules should be enforced. There must be no more industrial energy infrastructures pushed up 8 m from people's homes, heritage areas, tourism landscapes or protected habitats. High-value agricultural land must be protected. Food production must be treated as national strategic infrastructure, because that is what it is. Cumulative impact should be assessed; not one project at a time. When a region is saturated, it is saturated. The combined effects of planning is important because when one solar farm is pushed up against another, it destroys communities.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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First, I know it is not ideal that we are truncating it like this. Apologies to the witnesses but we will all read the full statements so will get the full benefit of them.
The issue is that we are in a similar position as we were with the marine protected areas and the maritime plan. We have a limited amount of land and we want to make sure it is managed properly. There currently is, as the witnesses say, no clear, coherent planning framework. The challenge, however, is that national planning statements are a completely new beast. We do not know the extent to which they are going to work, and whether or not they will work to the benefit of what we are all speaking about. My question is how we get the process right. If we get the process right, the outcome will be better. I direct my question to An Taisce in the first instance. We spent a lot of time talking about co-design with the marine protected areas, that is, bringing together all the interests in regions such as those in industry along with the elected representatives in trying to co-design that mapping. I do not necessarily mean wind or renewable energy but also other industries. In that case, it was fishing industries, communities, environmental NGOs, etc. Is that something that is going to be possible under the legislation that the Department said had to be transposed on the back of the mapping exercise? What the IFA and the communities are saying is that they want a proper process involvement at the start where all of those interests are taken on board and the right outcome comes. How do we design this process right? Is there something for us to learn from the work we have done in this committee previously on the maritime area?
Ms Phoebe Duvall:
It is absolutely crucial that we start big at a national level. We recently had the public consultation on the national territory mapping but to my knowledge that has not been aligned with the NPF process. It was a written consultation. To my knowledge, there has not been much co-design at this point. We need to inform all this - access to good data and good mapping that is collated in one place - and we need the land use review to come out. We are trying to piece together a process from very disparate pieces of information at this point. I think-----
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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From Ms Duvall's experience, for example, with the work we did on the maritime area and some of the processes that have happened since then, how do we ensure, if all of that is happening, that individual farmers and individual communities are part of the process in a meaningful way from the very beginning? That is the key ask here, of which this committee is very strongly supportive.
Mr. Seán O'Callaghan:
In my time in the Netherlands, I noted that they engaged in a lot of early engagement with citizens when they were formulating their renewable energy strategies. They have a concept called the regional energy strategy. It was very insightful because at an early phase the municipality acts as an intermediary between the developer of the renewables and the community. It is like a community-hall setting or formalised round-table setting where they come together to discuss. They use a lot of visualisation and scenario methods where people can come and co-design by placing where they would want to see the renewables on a map. This co-design element is potentially lacking in the Irish system. Looking towards the Netherlands for these kinds of examples could be very fruitful, particularly this visualisation and scenario methods.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Sorry to cut across Mr. O'Callaghan. I am conscious of time. These conversations around co-design are about something much more substantive than consultation. Is that something people have discussed with Ms Moran or that she has looked at in terms of how she would like to be involved in this process from the beginning?
Ms Denise Moran:
I think we would. We have suggested different sites to Longford County Council. We were proposing different sites. We think it should not be done by developers. They are multinational companies with no interest in the community at all and are not going to regulate the price of our electricity. They are putting up food prices because they are putting up the price of land. They are making it more expensive for farmers. It all has a knock-on effect on us. We have a 560 acre site that we would like to propose. It belongs to Bord na Móna. We do not understand why that was not used. We do not understand why we are not allowed at the table to get our elected representatives to propose land that is already owned by us and should be invested in by us as a country. The 560 acres in south Longford is a lot of land. If we put our heads together we could probably come up with a lot more.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I have to interrupt there. I will have to suspend the meeting because both I and Deputy Ó Broin will be in trouble if we do not get up to vote in the next two minutes. I apologise to the witnesses.
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses for their patience. I probably come with a blinkered view when it comes to solar farms. I appreciate the huge value they bring and the 30% they add to the grid is welcome, and I understand that farmers can have an off-farm income, but when it comes to destroying the countryside, splitting parishes, upsetting neighbours and pitting brother against brother, I have an issue with how we are rolling out and administering energy efficiency across the country. While I am a Government Senator, it is important to say that does not mean I do not have a strong opinion. I would be known as a disrupter when it comes to energy. At the end of the day, you cannot let the developers run wild across our countryside and turn what are our most beautiful scenic areas and areas of food production into seas of glass. That is a most unnatural and unacceptable process that I can see happening at the moment. There is a blend of wind, solar and stacks. That is all I will say. The combined effort to destroy our countryside is an example of wilful neglect as far as I am concerned.
I am interested to probe Ms Duvall's idea in respect of public consultation. In my experience in Galway East, there is none. Developers pick and choose whose doors they knock on. I do not know how you can talk about public consultation unless everybody is prepared to go into the community hall, be open and transparent and attend in good faith. That has not been my experience to date. I can talk about Portumna, Monivea and the peaker plant in Athenry. I can talk about what is happening below in Cooloo and further afield in north Galway.
Those are all in east Galway. We are small, but we are rural. People are there because land is cheap. I ask Ms Duvall to tell me what An Taisce believes good public consultation looks like in a perfect world.
Ms Phoebe Duvall:
There is a systemic issue in our consenting processes and among developers, in what is mostly still a developer-led system, whereby a site notice goes up and there has been very little, if any, consultation in advance. It then feels like a fait accompli to the community because there is only the statutory period during the planning application process. We need to always advocate not only for early public consultation, but, crucially, for genuine engagement at the pre-planning stage. While that is not provided for in our current planning regulatory framework, what that needs to look like is developers actually engaging at the planning application process stage, rather than telling people what they are putting in. It needs to be a process, similar to what we were talking about earlier, of co-design, getting community views and demonstrably incorporating community views, which is a key element that is missing. That then needs to be reflected in the application that shows up on the planners' desks.
Bigger than that also-----
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I am going to move to the IFA now because it is completely representative of the countryside around me. Surely the IFA has seen what good policy does look like. If we are not doing it well here in Ireland, where can we look to see what good looks like? I take on board what Ms Duvall is saying. We can do good public consultation and bring the community with us, but where has the IFA seen that, if it has seen it?
Mr. Bill O'Keeffe:
We have seen moves in the UK to grade farmland and make it more difficult to get solar farms, as they are called, on good quality farmland, pushing solar farms on to grade 4 and 5 quality farmland. We have seen moves in France to ensure that if there is a solar development, it does not reduce the output from that area by more than 10% in agricultural output or take up more than 40% of the good agricultural land.
It is difficult enough to make a living farming and anything that makes good quality agricultural land less affordable or attainable for young farmers coming into areas is a negative, from the point of view of productive farming. We are calling these solar farms but are they solar energy production facilities after they are built or are they solar farms? Are the farmers who own them still to be termed farmers or are they energy producers? Where do we go with that? We would like to see productive farmers supported and land available for food production for young farmers and existing farmers.
The economic activity solar farms will generate will not be appropriate for the area we have in the rural economy. We have meat factories, milk processors, grain intakes and feed production facilities. There will be no economic output generated by these solar farms. We have an economy that is set up for agricultural produce. We would like to see the vast majority of that maintained and solar farms put in areas of less productive land that will not affect the agricultural economy in rural Ireland.
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I Can have 30 seconds to address Ms Moran?
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Yes.
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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My experience is very similar to Ms Moran's experience, but I would like to hear what engagement or support the Foigha Solar Concern Group gets at a local authority level. I fail to understand the role of the local authority. It has no role because it is the developer going around knocking on doors at the start.
Ms Denise Moran:
The developers are only knocking on farmers’ doors, and then only the doors of the farmers they are interested in leasing land from. They did not knock on anybody else's door.
The support we get from the county council is very mixed. Some county councillors were very good at giving us hints and tips, but part of me feels slightly misled. We were told that one objection went in and that it hit all our targets, namely, the effect the proposal would have on tourism and the fact that we have all of these rare species of birds, invertebrates and so on living in our area. It is right beside Lough Ree, going into the Royal Canal greenway.
As a community, we came together and put in more than 100 objections. We wrote a community letter which was signed by more than 400 people signed, but the council does not seem to know what to do with it. We felt the planning application did not tell us how the solar panels were to be mounted, exactly what type of solar panels were to be put in, where the fences, which are like prison fences, were to be installed or where the CCTV and lighting were to be located. The roads are small, narrow category 3 roads, with poor sight lines. More than 1,000 lorries will use them every month and they are going to be pulling in to people's driveways. The historical importance of the area was not addressed. We are right beside the canal that links into Corlea Bog. It is part of the national famine trail. The application did not address any of those problems. It did not address the fact that Longford County Council had given permission for lodges to be built for the national famine way or for the eco-tourism we are promoting in our area. We are linking Center Parcs and parts of Newcastle forest to the greenway and we are linking the greenway to Corlea Bog and trackway, which the council is going to try to make into a centre of excellence. The project was to take 36 months but we reckon it will be at least two years because of the scale of the project. That is based on another project in Longford which has taken 36 months and was half the size.
Nobody will be able to use the canal. The canal bridge is going to be destroyed. These issues should have all been picked up by our council. The council was not doing its job if it did not address that. Its heritage and environmental services had already done a study on that area as part of the rewilding of the bog. That is where I got my list. We have snipe, curlew, lapwing, grey wagtail, meadow pipit, kestrel and barn owl in our area, as well as the red squirrel. It is a biodiverse corridor, which is so important. I always thought that was the council’s job.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We have gone way over time. I must go to other members. I allowed Ms Moran to eat in to some of my own time.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses for their opening statements. Almost every elected representative experiences anger on an almost daily basis from communities due to the lack of action by successive governments on updating the 19-year-old wind energy guidelines. The resulting lack of accurate, up-to-date information for both communities and industries in our county development plan is not good enough. How confident are the witnesses that the proposed development of spatial planning regulations for solar will be fit for purpose and transparent and will not be outdated by the time they are published and in place? Should there be a statutory obligation to review these regulations every five years? I ask in the context of the 2006 wind energy guidelines still being the only reference for the development of wind farms.
Ms Phoebe Duvall:
On the Deputy’s first point, the guidelines and any forthcoming regulations absolutely must be informed by a comprehensive national spatial plan. That is fundamental to ensuring they are fit for purpose. That will not only, I hope, provide clarity and transparency for stakeholders, assuming it has gone through an appropriate public consultation and engagement process, but, without that, it will be very hard for any guidelines to ensure efficient and sustainable delivery on the ground.
If we are to develop a comprehensive and balanced national spatial plan that takes into account other land uses, ecologically sensitive areas, integrating the findings of the land use review, etc., then that is a better footing on which to develop guidelines that will effectively deliver the renewable energy we need. It will reduce the chance of flawed planning decisions and we hope it will reduce the chance of adverse impacts. On an obligation for review, ongoing monitoring and review is very important. It is something we have not done well across a lot of areas. This is a very dynamic area. There is new data and research coming in across a variety of topics all the time, not least environmental sensitivities, so there should be a comprehensive programme for monitoring and review of guidelines to account for that dynamic environment and to allow for changes, where necessary, because land use changes and scientific evidence changes and we need to be able to account for that in an effective way.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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What does the Solar Concern Group think?
Ms Denise Moran:
I do not hold out much hope, after listening to the gentleman earlier, that there will be any proper guidelines put in place. There is this attitude that developers should lead because it does not cost anything as a country as this is all foreign investment and multinational companies. They would like to go on the way it is and get their 8 GB or whatever it is because it will not cost them anything and they will just push it down the can. It is just like they have done with wind farms. They have not got proper planning in place for them either and that has been going on for however many years. I was talking to a county councillor who has been retired for years and he was saying you all have known about this for the last decade or two, so why are they not already in place? It is the cart before horse, as always in Ireland.
As for a review, of course I would be for it, but if they put in planning I wonder will it even be in my lifetime. You all do not seem to get up and do anything. You all talk but you do not do. That is just the general consensus from the people I have spoken to. We are aware of at least 35 other groups doing exactly the same thing as us. They are rallying together, they are trying to put in an objection and they are trying to alert their councils to their problem. They are trying to address this issue and it has just fallen on deaf ears.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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That is a disappointing aspect of it.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Does the IFA wish to comment?
Mr. Bill O'Keeffe:
It would be nice to think there would be planning guidelines in place but we have a target to hit in five years' time, so having a review every five years we should have had planning guidelines in place five years ago and be having a review now. We are not in a good place. It is a bit of a free-for-all out there with developers at the moment and we have a plan in place to take out 500 average family farms' worth of ground to put in solar panels over the next five years. We are very concerned. We would love to see guidelines and we would love to have reviews but it is a free-for-all and a bit of a wild west out there. The planners are coming on to farms in all parts of the country on the best ground and throwing enough muck at the wall to see what sticks in terms of being able to get developments in place. It is being done by multinational companies. The profit is taken out of the country. The lease payments are staying in communities but there is no joined-up thinking on the planning side or on the development, financing or ownership sides of this.
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I thank our second group of witnesses for being here. I live beside a solar farm. Ms Moran is nodding, so she knows. It came with a lot of health warnings regarding planning and I saw a very divided community. I live in County Kildare right beside Punchestown Racecourse and it was not nice to see the neighbours falling out over the planning. The observations and objections were put in and I also put in an observation. My observation was based on agricultural land. In County Kildare I am surrounded by stud farms. Punchestown Racecourse put in an observation about the same thing, which is why can we not strategically zone land specifically for solar farms rather than let it be developer-led. Regarding the IFA, is there something we are working on to protect such farmland and protect equine-sensitive areas?
Mr. Robert Malone:
I thank the Senator. It is very positive we have this opportunity to discuss it and have this debate on the public record. We have to welcome the commitment in the programme for Government for these guidelines. It is important because at the moment, as has been highlighted a couple of times, it is developer-led - because that is the process for planning. We need guidelines to ensure a development has engagement with the community in advance of the planning stage. In Timahoe north, not far from where the Senator is based, one of the largest solar developments was opened a couple of months ago. It is 700 acres on Bord na Móna land on cutaway bog. There were not many objections and that is good planning. There are other factors and ecological assessments that must be adhered to, but that is good planning. We believe food production should be protected in Ireland. That is important. We welcome the commitment by this Government to have guidelines. Guidelines would ensure we have engagement with communities and ensure it is led not by where the best grid connection but where there is the least disruption to communities. I include in that farmers, food production, tourism and all the other areas raised by other concerned groups. It should be the right location, not the location that suits the developer best.
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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That is what seems to be the argument, namely, that the planning for a solar farm close to me was because it was convenient for the grid. However, it was not agriculturally suitable. That land is better suited to horses. It is the best land in County Kildare. It is such a pity to see not only the arguments and the division but also that there might be suitable alternatives. Mr. Malone mentioned Timahoe and land used by Bord na Móna for turf. If the Government or the planning authorities zoned the land as a solar farm area that would make much more sense. Is there any plan for doing such a thing?
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I think it is done in the UK.
Mr. Robert Malone:
There is land zoned and there are classifications for land. The best land is classified as that with the highest capacity to produce food. There are guidelines that it should be on the land least disruptive to agricultural production. That is what we need. We need to look at best practice in other countries and preserve the best land for the best use possible. That may be to develop a solar farm in an area where it does the least disruption to the community and the local ecology.
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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Again taking the land around me as the example, it was always part of the community and there were social benefits. When these solar farms are built there will be very little social or economic benefit to the local community.
Mr. Robert Malone:
Absolutely. I think it is in Mr. O'Keeffe's opening statement that there is no downstream or upstream benefit from a solar farm in ten years' time. A lot of it is to do with scale. An average farm in Ireland is 34 ha, which is just about 90 acres. These developments are heading for 600 to 700 acres. That is a community wiped out. That is a huge issue and very emotive in a lot of communities. Such a wide swathe of land is being taken out for something that is not going to contribute in the long term. Once it is built and in place it is going to generate an income for the solar company and an annual rent for the farmer but there is no tie into the community long term.
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I was at the IFA dinner the other night in Kildare and Mr. Malone was there.
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I recognise his face. The best beef ever, wherever the IFA got it. But I will say-----
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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All Irish beef is good.
Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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-----the community there is also a little bit startled. They are a bit like lamped rabbits. They do not know what is happening and they have no direction in it, so I would say people are scared. I thank the Cathaoirleach.
Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
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I think Wicklow has delivered the largest solar farm at Ashford. I think it was delivered without much negativity.
The more this debate goes on, I can fully appreciate and understand the need for national guidelines. I was a member of Wicklow County Council since 2004, so I was a councillor when we first introduced a wind farm policy, which was to assist and supplement the farming income. At the time, we never envisaged that, soon afterwards, large energy companies would move in and the size of wind turbines would increase from 30 m to 100 m. The scale escalated out of all control. In 2006, new regulations were meant to be brought in. That was almost 20 years ago, so I can understand the witnesses' frustration.
Ultimately, agricultural land will be used and it is the farmer who makes that decision. Should we consider capping the size of solar farms in Ireland so it is more beneficial for the farmer to deliver 2 ha or 3 ha rather than larger areas? Is that an option for consideration? Should we consider different regulations around larger and smaller solar farms?
Mr. Bill O'Keeffe:
From our point of view, if we can get solar farms in the right area, then they can be as big as they need to be. Bring the grid connections to the right areas, be they zoned or just earmarked for solar development. The wind farms are going into intensive farming areas. I do not mean "intensive" by the stocking rate, but by the number of farmers per square mile in some of these areas. One competes on a land-use front with a high number of farmers in some areas. We could locate solar farms in more extensive areas where there are fewer farmers to compete for ground in that area. If it is a suitable place, there is nothing to stop big solar developments going into them, like the bog in County Kildare. Bring the grid connections to those areas and put as many solar panels as possible in them.
I keep coming back to farmers. The solar panels on farmers' sheds are owned by farmers and that energy production is going into farmers' pockets in the long term. We have a short payback time on that with grants, etc. With the solar farms that are being developed, however, the money is being taken out of the country.
The other side is that we would like to see farm families being involved in ownership and, in those situations, there being smaller developments in certain areas. There are problems with grid connection and capacity for those smaller developments, so I would prefer to see large developments being in the right place and the grid being brought to those areas to make it suitable.
Dr. Elaine McGoff:
In Ireland, we are not making any more land and there is a massive amount of pressure on land. Obviously, there is agriculture, renewable energy, forestry and nature restoration obligations. What we keep coming back to is that we very much need a Government-led spatial plan for how we use land. That would address an awful lot of the concerns that have arisen here. There are very valid concerns about the use of tillage and pasture land for solar power generation, which need to be addressed in the strategic national plan.
From an ecological perspective, I would highlight that intensive managed agricultural land tends to have quite low biodiversity, so solar deployment on that land can be neutral or even positive if it is managed for the growing of wildflowers and has hedgerow management. Conversely, solar development poses quite a significant risk to high-nature value farmland and wetland ecosystems or what we would call marginal land. We have to bear all of that in mind when choosing the location of solar farms. We have solar targets and need solar energy, so if we say solar generation cannot go on any of the best farmland, where does that leave? A lot of the suggestions tend to point towards cut-over bogs, but there is another competing interest there, in that we have nature restoration law targets and we need to rehabilitate and rewet a lot of those bogs. There are conflicts all over the place and the only way to resolve it is with a strategic spatial plan. Currently, the situation is piecemeal. As has been described, developers come in and decide they want to develop this or that piece of land with no strategic oversight. It will fail on multiple fronts.
Ms Denise Moran:
Why is it always agricultural land? Why not consider brownfield sites first? Bord na Móna has 560 acres that is not ecofriendly for any species because it was cutaway bog that was cut in the 1930s and 1940s. The site has no hedgerows or anything, it is locked away from the road, and there is a nice road to it because Bord na Móna used it as an ash field. It is the type of land wanted. It is everything that is wanted. Why are we not looking at brownfield sites first and agricultural lands last?
Pat Casey (Fianna Fail)
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On that point, which I mentioned in the last session, we in Wicklow have recently had two negative decisions on solar farms because the site was on employment land even though it was the industry that was building the solar farms to support itself and be sustainable. All of that goes to show that we probably need guidelines at this stage because here is a company that wants to be sustainable and is willing to use employment land for a solar farm but the reaction from the local authority was a "No" because it was employment land and a solar farm could not be built there.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We must keep moving. I call Deputy Paula Butterly.
Paula Butterly (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I represent County Louth and east Meath and we have seen a series of planning applications that would take up around 1,500 acres of prime Louth farming land. I lodged an objection to that application because I saw exactly what most of the witnesses have talked about. First, we are not capitalising on housing. We are building a lot of new houses - I know my colleague, Deputy Ó Broin, will tell me we are not building enough - but there is no obligation on developers to install solar panels on newly built houses, which could have a battery and be more or less self-sufficient.
Second, the TAMs grant will not be sufficient and we have not gone far enough in order to cover the roofs of sheds and other agricultural buildings. That is a second alternative that we have not explored enough.
In terms of the national spatial plan, its guidelines are no longer relevant and are out of date. We are working on a national spatial plan but Ms Moran is right that we have been far too slow. We have talked about it but have not done enough. Hopefully, we will see signs of real progression over the coming months because it is absolutely needed.
There are pros and cons. We need solar farms but we are not taking advantage of what we can do efficiently now. In Spain, people can buy solar panels in Ikea, take the panels home and get an installer to install them on the roof. We are not grabbing the low-hanging fruit.
I was intrigued by what Dr. McGoff said about conflicts, with farming land on the one hand and bogs on the other. I do not blame the local authorities for this because the system is very higgledy-piggledy from one local authority to another. Therefore, I am a huge advocate for the national spatial plan. Similar to the UK model, let us map out what is good land, what is not so good land and what is just not suitable land for farming and see where we can go from there. I believe we have ample land. When we utilise all the other alternatives, we can then utilise the good land.
I have one question about conflict, which Dr. McGoff brought up. It has to do with the Natura Act and our associated objectives. I am from a rural community and I believe that farmers have been sold a pup concerning the 1,500 acres of farming land because they have been offered what seems to be very advantageous moneys but they do not take into account that, first and foremost, it is only available for a set period. I think it will be very off-putting and destroying for future generations because they will wonder afterwards whether they are farmers or commercial enterprises. There is also the taxation issue.
I take on board how destructive an application can be for communities. I am seeing families being ripped apart over this issue because one might be the farmer and the others are living in the area. It is hugely destructive because we have allowed developers to select their place rather than us taking on the responsibility to draw up the plan and tell them where to go.
That leads me to the question: what is more important, our objectives under Natura or the destruction or protection of our farming in rural communities?
Dr. Elaine McGoff:
I would not see it as an either-or situation. I would defer to the farmers. If they want to put solar panels on their land, it is their decision. I would defer to their view on whether it is the right thing for them in terms of the conflict involved. In the context of protecting agricultural land and our Natura 2000 sites, pitting one against the other is unfair. That is often how it is presented in the media, but we see really nice examples of farmers who are farming beautifully in harmony with nature. They are really proud of their land. They are so proud of their protected species. I appreciate that the media often present it as a conflict, but I do not think it needs to be. I think you can do both.
Paula Butterly (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The witnesses were talking about bogs, and maybe some place in mountain areas, boggy lands or whatever. I often think we have a wealth of knowledge and intelligence both here and across Europe. We could be well positioned. We hear about floating wind turbines. We have intelligence in that regard such that surely we can meet our environmental objectives while reutilising lands - as has started to be the case with the Bord na Móna bogs - which would never be utilised for farming purposes, and just leave the fertile farming land that we so desperately need for food alone. Food security is one of the biggest issues not just in this country but also across Europe at present. We need to do everything to ensure food security. If that means sacrificing an environmental objective or two in the short term in order to ensure that we have food on the table in the long term and a future farming generation, quite frankly, I am okay with that.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I am going to have to move on. We are just-----
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I will give Mr. O'Keeffe 30 seconds. I have to-----
Mr. Bill O'Keeffe:
From a farming point of view, as was mentioned, the TAMS grant is there. It is limited, however. You can only apply for a TAMS grant based on the amount of energy you consume on the farm. There are a huge number of sheds where solar panels have been put. There are more sheds available, however, and a different grant could be used to put solar panels in place on them. We would like to see the climate and nature fund being used for that. We are very disappointed that farmers have not got good access to that fund. I know there is a planning meeting, but that fund should be available for farmers to put in solar panels on the roofs of other sheds to generate more renewable electricity that does not impact their ability to produce food.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I call Deputy Séamus McGrath.
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will be brief. I know we are caught for time. I am a member of the public accounts committee. We had a 100th anniversary event earlier, so I apologise for being late.
Paula Butterly (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy does not look a day over 30 to me.
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, I am ageing very well.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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It was the only time people have wanted to go to a PAC event.
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is right.
Like Deputy Butterly, I will make a statement initially. Looking at all the opening statements and from what I have heard, I am of the view that there is a lot of consensus among the three groups before us. They all agree in terms of the need to set a planning framework in relation to solar farms, as they are called, solar applications and so on. At the moment, it is very much developer led. Developers are selecting the sites and going to local authorities, of which there are 31 across the country. The local authorities are making very inconsistent decisions in relation to this matter. That is a problem. We need these national planning statements. We had officials from the Department in earlier, and we pushed that point with them. The statements are needed urgently. The Department officials pushed back to the effect that they are under pressure because of the various demands on them in terms of wind energy, housing and so on, but it does need to be prioritised. There is no question about that.
What was interesting in the earlier session was the ratio between field-based solar production and rooftop solar production. If I picked it up correctly, the witnesses' intention going forward is that it would be approximately two to one field-based production versus rooftop. We should be trying to flip that and having it largely rooftop based because the percentage of rooftops that are utilised at present is minuscule in comparison with the potential that exists. The public sector has an obligation to lead on this. There are a lot of public sector buildings out there, and we should be leading on this. That is something which, as a committee, we should be trying to push within Government, namely that the various State agencies need to put their shoulders to the wheel if we are to achieve 8 GW by 2030.
It is more of a statement. I know we are caught for time. Is there broad agreement that we should flip the ratio in relation to rooftop versus field-based solar production? Is that-----
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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Everyone here agrees with that.
Ms Denise Moran:
Not just rooftops. The councils own huge car parks. Why are we not putting them in car parks? That is being done in Australia. Why are we not looking at what other countries are doing, particularly as they have made the mistakes, they have used agricultural land and they see what is going wrong? Why do we not look at them to see what initiatives they are coming up with? They are putting them in car parks and along motorways. Why is it not more a case of Ireland investing in it as opposed to multinational companies in order that we can utilise this land that is already owned by our councils?
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is a fair point about multiple uses of certain spaces. You can have solar panels over a car park, for example. There are plenty of options in that regard. In many respects, it is a bit of a lazy approach going into a green field-----
Séamus McGrath (Cork South-Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is the cheapest approach, and the strategy needs to ensure that is not the go-to option or the first option. I know we are caught for time. I will not speak any more if anyone else wants to come back on that.
Ms Phoebe Duvall:
We did have some planning exemptions for rooftop and other microgeneration removed in 2022, That has helped from a planning perspective, but there are still a lot of barriers to microgeneration that can be addressed. The application processes for grants, which I have some personal experience with, can be complex and lengthy. If you are not comfortable using computer-based applications, it can be very difficult. There are also still a lot of high upfront and other costs. Take home retrofitting. For example, with solar, batteries, as far as I am aware, are not included in the grant scheme, yet that is what will ensure resilience in the face of storms, say, if we lose the grid in an area. We need to also look at this from a perspective of reducing the barriers to get that low-hanging fruit that is a lot of the rooftop-based solar. That also needs to be the subject of more proactive engagement on the part of Departments and State agencies whereby the latter actively reach out to homeowners, businesses and schools and put the onus back on the State, essentially, to drive it rather than putting the onus on, say, farms, business owners or homeowners.
It is also just worth noting that as we work through the RED III process for land designations, in renewables acceleration areas, which we will be designating once we get through the initial mapping phase, the directive requires, under Article 15c, "giving priority to artificial and built surfaces, such as rooftops and facades of buildings", etc. As we move through that process, and I believe we are due to designate renewables acceleration areas by February of next year, the directive does require that we prioritise the built environment.
Mr. Bill O'Keeffe:
We feel that rooftop solar on farms should be promoted. That is the IFA's point of view. It is alongside a farm business rather than in place of a farm business. It is an additional income which may facilitate generational renewal and it keeps the ownership structure of that income and that business in the farm family, which is very important to us, rather than just leasing land out to somebody else.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Aird has one minute for a question and answer.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
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That is the way I am treated. I get only one minute.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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No, because we have a-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
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May I just say that-----
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Just hold on a second.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
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May I just say-----
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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No. I just want to say something. We have pre-legislative scrutiny on the apartment defects Bill at 6 p.m.. We also have a private session-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
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We are here to discuss planning regulations for solar farms. I gave over 40 years as a member of a council, and no matter what a person did, they had to get planning permission to do it, but they told you coming in exactly where you could go and where you could not go. We are talking here about 300, 400, 500, 600 or 700 acres of land. I will go home this evening and ring two or three people who they cannot get planning permission to build houses in rural areas. For God's sake, where are we going? All I am saying is that there are no guidelines there. I know from talking to the planners that they are looking at it, but there are no actual guidelines. For everybody's sake, there should be instances where people are told, "This is where you can do it and this is where you cannot do it."
What is happening in my community is that they are pitting the local people neighbour against neighbour - "You are putting up a wind farm" or "You are allowing solar panels" - and they are only causing rows everywhere. It is absolutely disgraceful. I have never seen anything like it in all my political life.
It is up to a farmer to do what we likes with his land if he has planning, within reason. There are thousands and thousands of acres of cutaway bogs which we have already harvested peat from. We can give back to this country and its people by putting solar and wind farms there. All I ask is that people have common sense. There is no justification for putting solar panels in ten, 20 or hundreds of acres of land and then telling a boy or girl who was born and reared in the area they will not be allowed to build a house. There is no joined-up thinking. We have these multinationals coming in, and why not? It is a free-for-all. This will be worse than the Mercosur deal if it goes through.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I apologise for leaving for the votes. We will have pre-legislative scrutiny of the apartment defects Bill at six o'clock and then we have a meeting in private session. We are also meant to clear this room before those meetings. I apologise for rushing. I will take a couple of minutes to ask questions, which are for the Foigha group in particular. We talked about experiences, public consultation and the Aarhus Convention. What has been the witnesses' experience of the so-called public consultation?
Mr. Damien Mulvihill:
It has been zero. There has been no public consultation. These developers just railroad through. They have tied up the land before it comes to our attention that this is going ahead. We put in our objection. There is a financial burden on the local community trying to object to this. It takes extensive money, which is coming out of our own pockets, to try to stop this happening and destroying our local area. To put it into perspective, there are to be 320 acres of solar farm in our area. That takes in eight townlands because there are 60 acres here, 70 acres there and 100 acres here. In total, it will cover 5 km, north to south. It is not just a 320-acre field. It will take up a whole area.
There is another solar farm proposed for just 2 km up the road. That would be another 300-acre solar farm and it has gone to planning. The trouble is that when these regulations come in, it will probably be too late for us. There are 35 other communities in the country in the same boat as us. They are fighting these and the multinational developers coming in. When you look at the applications for each development, they are all the same. It is like they are copied and pasted and thrown into the council to let it deal with it but the council is not dealing with it at local level. It is thrown on to An Coimisiún Pleanála to deal with. It costs a lot of money to submit an objection to An Coimisiún Pleanála. It is up to the local residents in the area to do it.
We need to get this legislation right and rush it through before the country is destroyed. A 140-acre solar farm will generate enough power for approximately 6,000 homes. One offshore wind turbine will generate enough power for 16,000 homes.
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
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How much does it cost to put one of those out there?
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Does Mr. Ledwith want to come in?
Mr. Kieran Ledwith:
As all these solar panels come in, the price of electricity will not come down. If anything, it is getting dearer. Where is the benefit for us, as residents and citizens of Ireland, in allowing these solar farms to decimate our countryside? We are not seeing a benefit. The price is constantly going up.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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There is a consistent theme across all groups, from the IFA and an Taisce to local groups. The Department and the SEAI said the same thing. There are no regulations and we are not doing it. That is what we need to prioritise.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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As a suggestion to the Cathaoirleach because otherwise folks who come in might feel very frustrated that they are just coming in and talking-----
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I intend to propose sending a letter to the Minister in regard to this.
Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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There are two specific things. On the national policy statements, there is no automatic requirement for the Minister to consult this committee under the legislation. It was one of the big weaknesses of that. First, we should insist that this committee be formally involved in the consultation from the beginning, given the strength of feeling here today and the views of the committee. Second, if we took the kind of approach that an Taisce and others have outlined, which is to have a proper, national spatial plan in place with proper consultation and co-design, that would remove a lot of these conflicts further down the line. That is a separate piece of work.
I presume it is not for the Department of housing but for the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment. We also need to write to the that Minister about that separate piece. We can have planning guidelines but if there is not a national spatial plan with designations following consultation, people will still be in these different kinds of conflicts. Not all of the conflicts can be resolved. We had this with the maritime stuff. There will be occasions when one or other side of the conflict loses, but at least if there is fair process and everybody is involved in it from the start, we can negotiate our way through. I recommend not one letter but two letters, one to each of the two Ministers, about that because they go hand in hand.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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That is a fair proposal. Is that agreed? Agreed.
I apologise for the break for the votes but it is just the way it happened today. I thank the witnesses for coming to assist us in considering this matter. That concludes our consideration of the matter today. I propose that we go into private session to discuss other related matters. Is that agreed? Agreed.