Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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Good morning to members and witnesses. You are very welcome. I will read some formal notices now. I remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the place in which Parliament has chosen to sit, namely, Leinster House, in order to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate where they are not adhering to this constitutional requirement. Therefore, any member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to leave the meeting.

Before I start, I have to explain to our witnesses the note on privilege. There are some limitations I must explain in regard to parliamentary privilege and the practice of the Houses as regards references witnesses may make to other persons in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present, or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts, is protected, pursuant to both the Constitution and statute, by absolute privilege. The witnesses are again reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if the witnesses' statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with such directions.

I welcome our witnesses, Ms Vivienne Jeffers from the Gleann Fia residents association; Mr. Kenneth Drury from Rathcormac Flood Protection, joining us online; Ms Catherine Power of Castlemartyr Flood Protection; and Ms Martina Williams of Killeagh Flood Protection. We are here to discuss a call for urgent action on flood relief for Rathcormac, Castlemartyr, Killeagh and Mogeely. Before we hear from our witnesses, I propose to the committee that we publish their statements on the committee's website. Is that agreed? Agreed.

On behalf of the committee, I welcome our witnesses. I am going to ask them to read out their opening statements, which should be in and around ten minutes, if that is okay. We will then have a chance for questions and answers with the members of the committee. Once again, the witnesses are all very welcome and I will now hand over to them.

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

Good morning to the Chair and members of the committee. I thank them for giving us the chance to speak today. I am here on behalf of residents of Mogeely, a small east Cork village that lives in fear every time it rains. We are not asking for special treatment; we are asking for fairness, urgency and protection for our homes, families and peace of mind.

In May 2024, the Office of Public Works, OPW, and the then Minister promised approval for Professor Mary Bourke from Trinity College, Dublin, to survey Mogeely for natural flood defences, simple measures that could have been completed within weeks.

Cork County Council submitted the paperwork in January 2025. Eleven months later, we are still waiting. Meanwhile, landowners are told they cannot touch their land, yet they will still be blamed if floodwaters pass through it. That is not partnership. It is punishment. Because of this inaction, land once set aside for flood protection is now being lined up for commercial development, yet Coillte land above the village is ready for natural defences, including leaky dams and offline floodwater storage. These are real solutions that could protect not just Mogeely but also Castlemartyr and Ladysbridge downstream. I respectfully ask the committee to write to Coillte to confirm its agreement to participate in this project. A global award–winning undergraduate project by student Ms Maria Cooper has already shown how effective and affordable these solutions can be. We just need OPW approval and funding to act.

We have been told again and again that more surveys of the land are needed before anything can be physically done. Therefore, I respectfully request the committee to write to the national roads authority to ask it to share the detailed surveys it did of the area with Cork County Council's coastal and flood protection department. Its engineer would benefit a great deal from collaboration of Government Departments, given that Deerpark was identified as an option for the Castlemartyr bypass. Our request is for the OPW to approve the natural flood protection works now before winter fully sets in and to provide individual property protection for timber-frame houses as the current barriers are unsuitable due to the 50 ground-level vents that allow water to enter.

We need to stop building on flood plains. I would like the committee to ask Cork County Council's planning department how more timber-frame dwellings have been sanctioned in Mogeely when the development plan of 2022 to 2028 capped further building due to a lack of amenities and flooding issues.

Local property tax should be suspended until homes can be fully insured and are fully safe. In one estate in Mogeely, house prices dropped from €310,000 to €150,000 overnight after Storm Babet and not a single sale has gone through in that estate since. Two years after Storm Babet, I can still see the brown dirty water rushing through my house. We lost our children’s baby photographs, the door frame where I marked off their height as they grew and the sense of safety that makes a house a home, but what terrifies me most is what will happen if my luck runs out next time. I cannot bear the thought of losing my children to water, and certainly not to Government delay and inaction. Please give my children back their mother and help me to protect Mogeely.

I thank the committee for its time.

Ms Catherine Power:

I thank the Cathaoirleach and committee members for inviting me here today. I represent homeowners and businesses in Castlemartyr affected by recurrent flooding. Castlemartyr is situated in beautiful east Cork, with a population of about 1,600, and is traversed by the River Kiltha. The village has faced persistent flooding issues over many years, with significant flooding incidents in 2009, 2015 and 2023 forcing residents out of their homes on each occasion, and inadequate responses from our local and national authorities. In August 2025, the Minister of State, Deputy Moran, announced increased interim works funding of up to €2 million per project. We have learned only in recent days that our local authority is still awaiting confirmation of the details of this revised scheme. There appears to be no urgency to help the affected residents. None of the previous funding of €750,000 has been utilised for flood remediation in Castlemartyr. Minimal maintenance efforts following Storm Babet only account for 4% of the available budget. Residents sought remedial works from our local authorities following flooding in 2015. We met the then Minister of State with responsibility for the OPW, Deputy Moran, but no funding was granted for works. In fact, we now understand it was deemed premature, yet homes flooded again in 2023.

Castlemartyr is currently in tranche 2 of flood relief schemes and a solution has been identified that involves diverting flood water from the River Kiltha, around the village through an existing bypass channel, and construction of flood walls. However, this has not been advanced further, with claims of limited availability of engineering expertise delaying advancement. Why then can we not bring in outside help? The section of the River Kiltha causing the havoc and devastation is only 2 km in length and the works are well within the €2 million budget for minor works, so we need never go into tranche 2.

During the most recent flooding in 2023, there were no health and safety measures or traffic management plans in place for affected residents, worsening the situation further. Affected residents currently live in fear of flooding every time we experience heavy rainfall. We are monitoring flood gauges and recording rainfall amounts ourselves, without any support or emergency procedures in place pending another catastrophic flooding event. As I speak, a young family is facing their third Christmas out of their home in the village. The mental stress is huge and we feel very much alone.

Affected residents are unable to obtain flood insurance and face higher costs compared with other homeowners, with no Government assistance. In contrast, the UK's Flood Re programme is an initiative between the UK Government and insurers to assist vulnerable homeowners. No such initiative exists in this country.

I come before the committee today, alongside neighbours from Mogeely, Rathcormac and Killeagh, to request assistance in overcoming these bureaucratic obstacles. There is growing anger among residents due to perceived Government inaction and a lack of tangible support. We are at a stage in our lives when we should be enjoying our retirement, having paid our taxes. We have undertaken the remedial work to our homes. It is now time for our Government to fulfil its responsibilities to affected residents. We are currently just surviving and surviving is not living. I thank the committee for its time.

Ms Martina Williams:

I thank the Chair and members of the committee for inviting me here today. I live in Fanisk, where properties were flooded at the confluence of the River Womanagh and the River Dissour. More properties were affected in the village of Killeagh, in respect of which I am here today.

The committee has already listened to the details of some of the devastating effects created by Storm Babet, both physically and mentally, and has heard about the urgency of implementing tranche 2 of the flood relief scheme. While minor works have been completed in Killeagh, I am here to ask for its inclusion in the scheme due to its proximity to villages already in the scheme and on account of the unprecedented weather event of 18 October 2023.

I would like to make a number of observations. Relief after the flood happened much faster for business owners than for homeowners. Most business owners had homes to return to at night while dealing with the aftermath of Storm Babet. What about people who had to live in stagnant water for days, seeing their homes destroyed?

There was no sense of urgency at Cork County Council. This was indicated by issues with record keeping. My individual property protection, IPP, application was fully completed, including payment for a barrier I had installed, when I got a call approximately three weeks later saying that engineers would be sent to assess my property for barriers. This was the general attitude reflected in a not-so-minor matter.

The lack of drainage maintenance is an issue that needs serious attention. Blocked drains are a reality that persists everywhere.

There is a lack of specified weather forecasts and emergency planning. Not just Cork, as the largest county, but Ireland as a whole would benefit from more localised weather warnings and from monitoring of river and rainfall levels, etc. A great concern is also the lack of emergency planning for flood events and the lack of co-operation between Government agencies.

Apart from general anxiety about further flooding events, I am overwhelmed by the thought of leaving my property at times of bad weather or weather warnings. I live on my own and am reluctant to rely on neighbours who might have to look after their own properties while I am away. I have made arrangements to see my family in Germany for a 60th birthday, for the first time since Storm Babet, but I will not travel if there is a chance of bad weather. The lack of urgency displayed by Cork County Council and the OPW make it a flight of fancy that I will see the places I had hoped to visit after many years of being unable to do so without worrying about my home. While it has been restored, the memories of Storm Babet linger for all of us. I thank the committee.

Mr. Kenneth Drury:

I am speaking on behalf of Rathcormac. I apologise that I could not attend in person. I am under the weather and did not want to spread anything I have.

Many of the points I wanted to bring to the committee's attention have already been stressed by the three ladies in the room. I will speak specifically to tranche 2 of the flood relief scheme, the catchment flood risk assessment and management programme, CFRAM, scheme that was approved in 2018, which is seven years ago.

I would ask what has been done since 2018 with that specific plan.

The committee members can imagine the impact of Storm Babet on families. My house does not flood but the house of friends of mine was flooded. I got a call from the father of two twin children to go down to help him get his kids out of the house. I could not drive down the road to get to their house and had to walk down the road. The water was up over my knees and I am 6 ft 2 in. or 6 ft 3 in. in height. Those kids were two years of age and they could not get out of their house. I had to go down, pick them up and bring them out. Their mother was there, too, and I brought them up to our house. Luckily, they were in a two-storey house because if it was a bungalow, they could have been in real trouble.

What I am trying to understand, and I cannot understand it until it is explained to me, is that since 2018, an approved plan has been sitting on a schedule or project plan belonging to a Government body, but I do not see that anything has been put in place to that effect. The Minister of State with responsibility for the OPW, Deputy Moran, visited the village recently. He informed us that the minor works relief scheme was going to increase from €750,000 to €2 million. I would like to understand when that will take effect. Is it at the start of next year or is it actually in place right now? I do not know.

The human impact is that my phone beeps constantly. When it comes to rainfall, residents are panicking and are afraid. They are at their wits’ end. It has an emotional toll on members of the community. They cannot get their houses insured. One of the ladies I mentioned was in the IPP scheme. Two or three different groups of engineers have contacted the same houses about the same sized back door, front door and gates. The size of these doors does not change, so why are all of these engineering companies contacting the same households?

I know €5 million was set aside for this but I do not know how many of these have been implemented or put in place. As I said, Rathcormac is in tranche 2 of the flood relief scheme. That was a plan approved in 2018 but from what I understand after getting involved since 2023, we have to go back to the drawing board because the hydraulic data was perhaps not good enough at the time, or the report that was produced might not have been adequate. Does that mean we go back down the pile? I do not know.

It has to be one of two solutions. The solution that was presented to the community at the time was not something the community agreed with, but it still got approved. Seven years later, nothing has been done. Can anybody tell me why that is the case? I understand things can run slowly but in my line of work, if I did something like that with a project, I would not be in my line of work very long. The approved plan was for €1.15 million. If the threshold gets increased from €750,000 to €2 million for the minor works relief scheme, does that mean this scheme might move from the OPW to the county council?

We met recently with the county council. It appears that, from the start of next year, it will make a submission for funding to do more assessments and get more data. I wonder if the pre-existing data that was retrieved prior to 2018 can be presented to us and the county council in Cork so we can compare against that and move this along faster.

We need to remove the red tape and try to expedite things, where possible. A plan was agreed in 2018, but it is seven years later. What I seek from this committee and the Government is that they would treat flood relief like infrastructure - like roads and houses. As one of the ladies said, if you are building on floodplains, what do you expect is going to happen to those houses down the track?

We really should be building for the future and building suitable infrastructure, which includes flood relief. We see a plan there. Once we have engagement on it, there are plenty of farmers and people whose families have been there for centuries and who would understand how to fix this problem straight away. From our perspective, it is not rocket science. It is just time, but it has taken quite a long time to even get this far.

If the threshold is increased, does the approved plan move towards the county council to deliver it? Is it possible to delegate more authority to the council to implement more short-term mitigation? Could we have a publicised, clear, time-bound delivery schedule for the plans for the four affected communities? Regarding the IPP scheme, I know there are procurement issues and that whoever submitted for that work was not able to complete it. Could that be moved along more quickly?

That is all I have to say. I will open it up for questions and answers. I thank the members for their time.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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I will, indeed, open it up for questions and answers. I call Deputy Buckley.

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses. I am from the area and have seen this at first hand, so I know where they are coming from. I have a few questions. The statements are real-life statements and give the lived experience. We can send all the engineers in the world out to any of the houses, but they are not going through what the witnesses are going through.

On the situation with Gleann Fia, it was stated that a solution had been identified. Ms Power referred to Castlemartyr. Of course, we do not talk about solutions here; it is always problems. However, a solution was identified there and there is another for Gleann Fia, where the water was to be diverted away from the housing state onto the farmer’s land, like a floodplain. Now, they are saying that has been marked for a biogas plant. If the water cannot be bypassed around the estate, it has to go where the biogas plant is to be built. Where does the water go then? While the residents are trying to get a solution, I can see that we are making a bigger problem out of this. I know where the witnesses are coming from with regard to the solutions.

Mr. Drury talked about timeframes. I have taken note of that. We will check to see whether we can get those responses. I know where he is coming from.

With regard to the flood protection barriers, I thought it was strange that the most recent figures we got were that something like 2,500 gates had gone in. I spoke to the Minister of State on the situation with these gates, and the best way I could describe it to the Minister of State was that it is like having to do the job with a wetsuit and a car jack. Some of them are not even high enough. Some of them are only 2 ft. 6 in. high to deal with 5 ft. of water. I understand the witnesses’ frustration.

It was stated that red tape strangles communities. I ask the witnesses to elaborate on that.

I was given a report by one of the witnesses, namely Investigating the Feasibility of using Nature-based Solutions for Flood Management in Mogeely, Ireland, and Beyond, by Maria Cooper. It is 124 pages long. The work has been done. It does not refer to problems but to solutions for flooding. I would like to know if anybody has taken that on board.

I spoke to a lady at the last rally on flooding in Midleton. You will not believe this. She told me the council went down - I will not say to what part, but let us say it was in Midleton - and said it can put a flood barrier on the front door but cannot put one on the back door. Surely an engineer can sort out a solution for that, even if it was with the car jack and the wetsuit.

I would look like to touch on the point concerning what the witnesses think is the red tape that is strangling the communities.

Genuinely and truthfully, how do the witnesses feel Cork County Council, the OPW, Inland Fisheries Ireland and local farmers have engaged with the residents? I am very fortunate in that I live up on the hill. Any time I see a yellow rain warning, I ring around asking people what the river is like where they are and what are they facing. It is devastating.

I will refer to mental health. I am very worried about it because this has been going on for some time, and we have had more than Storm Babet going back through all the years. It seems to get worse and worse. I find that every time you try to even come up with a solution, somebody else makes it a problem and it slows everything down. I will say it here because I said it at the meeting when we had the Minister of State in Midleton with the municipal district council. The best example I can give is the pinch point between the Dungourney and Owennacurra rivers, which meet before heading out to the sea in Ballinacurra. Fifty years ago, that used to be dredged. That is why the distillery is in Midleton, because they could sail in their grain, barley or whatever and export the whiskey. That would be one quick solution, but the bodies do not seem to be listening.

I will go back to the two main points. One is the red tape that strangles the communities. I would like to hear the witnesses' views on that. Do they think that the complexity of the flooding is partly responsible for the red tape as well?

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

From Gleann Fia's perspective of the red tape part of it, like the Deputy says, we had offered one solution - holding water on the land - but the farmer cannot move that water. He needed permission from the OPW. I physically had to go and talk to Coillte. I then had to go myself to IFI. This was all while taking off the walls of my house, pulling the muck out and just rebuilding my life. I had to go and knock on the doors of Inland Fisheries Ireland and Coillte. I had to go to the OPW. I had to go to Cork County Council. There was nobody to come and advocate for me. I had to go and physically do that myself. The farmer cannot just go in and put up bunds or any defence because they will be blamed and be liable afterwards. That is why farmers need the OPW's approval. They need to prove that there is no life in their water drain and no fish life with the fisheries. There are lots of obstacles for everybody. Fair enough, there are environmental factors that have to be looked at, but the extent of what we have been put through is unimaginable.

That is why we have this solution. It is from a college student. She won a global award for it. It is not the actual full survey - this is just to show what can be done. It can be done on the Coillte land because of what was said about the farmland now being developed for commercial use. There is plenty of land farther up the hill on the Coillte land. This is the solution, and a student came and showed us how to do it.

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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Just to flag it, and Ms Jeffers said it in her statement, they are still giving planning permission for timber-framed houses on floodplains.

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

That is the shocking part of it.

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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Why is that?

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

A total of 23 have been given permission and eight more are awaiting planning. Historical flood maps show that Mogeely is a floodplain. There should be no houses at all on it.

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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It was Mr. Drury-----

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

You can give the map to any engineer and they will say there should be no housing estates, yet there are four now.

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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What Mr. Drury said about planning makes sense. If the Cathaoirleach will just bear with me, I have one more question.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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I am keeping an eye on the time. I am giving everyone in or around ten minutes, but we do not need to be too prescriptive about it because we are a small group this morning.

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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When the road gets flooded in Mogeely, Castlemartyr and that whole area, you are cut off totally, so there is a major issue there. From Mogeely, it goes then to Castlemartyr. Some mitigation works have been done there but very little. In Killeagh, the river was done as well, but it seems to all just be window dressing. People are still living in fear. If each of the witnesses had one wish in the morning to address the flooding, what would it be?

Ms Catherine Power:

We would like to see tranche 2 initiated. We would like to see that €2 million in funding. We would like to see details of that sent to Cork County Council; it has received nothing. The Minister of State, Deputy Moran, came to Castlemartyr and announced that in August but we are here in November-----

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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And nothing has happened.

Ms Catherine Power:

-----and the council has not received anything. It was only in the past few days that we learned the council was still awaiting confirmation of it. There appears to be no urgency for the residents. If there were, that information would have gone through to Cork County Council. At the moment, it is working on the €750,000 funding it has, of which we have received only a tiny amount for the section of dredging that was done and the debris.

That is only maintenance work. We still call it "maintenance work" because that is what it is. It is not flood defences.

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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I read somewhere that 4% or something of the funding had been spent. Is that roughly it?

Ms Catherine Power:

Yes. Well, I admit I was calculating that as regards €2 million because I thought we had the €2 million in the back pocket at that stage, but-----

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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Half of nothing is nothing, is it not?

Ms Catherine Power:

Exactly. It is minuscule.

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses for that.

Ms Martina Williams:

Killeagh is not even in tranche 2, but it would make sense. Once the others have been approved and the heavy machinery is in the area, it should also go to Killeagh. It is not that far. The whole area should be sorted. That would be my personal interest.

Ms Catherine Power:

Again, it is a lack of urgency.

Ms Martina Williams:

You are there; you do the lot. Killeagh might not have been flooded for a long time, but it was really heavily flooded when it happened. It should be in with everybody else.

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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A common-sense approach.

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

Mogeely is impacted by four different flooding sources. We have the Kiltha river and the Dower river, which burst its banks on 11 November again and flooded and blocked Killeagh Road. We also have the water run-off from the agricultural land and the caves beneath us. The water table comes up and floods us. Our natural flood protection survey has been on the OPW's desk since January waiting for approval. I want that released. That is my wish. That takes away four of our danger points, so it is common sense, it is natural and it supports the environment.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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Does Mr. Drury want to respond to the question on what he would like to see if there were just one measure?

Mr. Kenneth Drury:

Yes, I will. Without actually implementing the plan that the community has come up with themselves, it is to get that engagement and to expedite the next plan, whatever that may be. It is really the engagement piece as well. The ladies in the room have been saying it as well as I have. For me, the county council has been very engaging but the OPW not so much. However, I know it probably has better interdepartmental engagement. Recently, we had members of the OPW visit the town unannounced and only for them meeting a farmer whose father came up with the original plan and filled them all in on all the information, we would not have been any the wiser to it. From my perspective, it is a matter of engagement in order that we do not have to wait another seven years to get the next plan approved.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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I will come to the other people indicating in a moment. If I could just briefly ask a question about that, Mr. Drury said that officials from the OPW had visited. Am I right in understanding that the document you have, which is a solutions-based document, has already been given to the OPW?

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

Yes.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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Is Mr. Drury saying that when the officials visited, they were not aware of the document or it had not been shared down to that level? Is that the case?

Mr. Kenneth Drury:

Sorry. Which document are you referring to?

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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The solutions document.

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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That is just for Mogeely.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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It is only for Mogeely. Sorry. That was my misunderstanding. I apologise.

Mr. Kenneth Drury:

No worries.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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It would make sense that it would be referenced in that.

We have Deputy Quaide indicating.

Liam Quaide (Cork East, Social Democrats)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach for allowing me to sit in. I thank all the witnesses for being here. They have been really steadfast, admirable and highly informed representatives of their communities through a time of terrible loss and destruction. I think there are many people in their communities who will be forever grateful to them for that. There has clearly been an historical failure on the part of the State to protect east Cork towns and villages from flooding and a failure since Storm Babet to respond to that catastrophe with anywhere near the level of urgency needed and with an integrated response. I think there is no denying that or that the response from the agencies has been way too slow and piecemeal. My view is that we need an overarching agency that leads and co-ordinates on all aspects of flood relief because it is so vast and complex an issue. We have the local authority, the OPW, Coillte, as Ms Jeffers mentioned, Inland Fisheries Ireland, the Department of the environment and the Department of agriculture involved. With a problem so vast in scale and complexity, leadership and co-ordination are essential, or so much of the decision-making falls through the cracks.

As Ms Jeffers mentioned, we need to make maximum use of natural flood defences. They are not a silver bullet, but they can significantly contribute to overall flood resilience in a catchment. There appears to be great potential around particular settlements, such as Mogeely, in this regard. They can be implemented relatively quickly at low financial cost and without the need for a planning process. It beggars belief why natural flood defences are not being pursued with the utmost determination. As much as we can understand that the scale of the Midleton flood relief scheme will involve a lengthy planning process, it is very difficult to see how the smaller scale schemes that would protect the witnesses' villages are still very much in limbo without a clear timeframe.

Given where we are at now, over two years on, and what the witnesses have learned in the meantime, are there any decisions that the Minister of State, Deputy Moran, could make right now for Castlemartyr, Mogeely, Killeagh and Rathcormac that would give the witnesses some piece of mind over the next year? I accept that a lot of time has been lost.

Ms Catherine Power:

I will go back on what Mr. Drury said. We would like the Department to give us a timeframe for when we can expect results and solutions. We would ask to be included in the process because we are trying to find information by contacting Deputies and the local authority. We get a lot of copy-and-paste replies which are soul destroying. We know that it takes time, that all the work cannot be done at once and that not all of the schemes can be done. We understand that it is complex. At the same time, we want the residents to be involved and not to be kept in limbo. We would like the Minister of State, Deputy Moran, to release the €2 million in funding that he says he is making available to the local authority. As I said earlier, it has heard nothing. It is not working on that premise; it is working on the premise that it has a budget of €750,000. The €2 million would easily sort our problem in Castlemartyr. It is not rocket science. It is not the Nile. We are not diverting the Nile. We are just diverting excess floodwater from the village through a current channel. We are not engineers, but we know that this is the solution and it has been identified. Of course we want that to be done. After 2015, we did the remedial work to our home, as did other residents. We thought we were home and dry - pardon the pun - but little did we know that in 2023 we would be flooded again and residents would be out of their homes. We know it is going to happen again; it is just a matter of time. In the meantime, we are working on the goodwill of the community, which has been brilliant. Our flood buddies in the village initiative followed by the Midleton and east Cork flood group have been absolutely fantastic to us. However, we cannot be relying on them. We need concrete solutions.

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

In Mogeely, we need individual property protections for the timber-framed houses. The barriers are insufficient. We have 50 ground level vents. They are air vents and you cannot block them. If you do, the house is going to rot. However, if you do not block them, the house is going to flood. A solution has to be found and, if it is, it will take a lot of the stress off people. Every time it rains, even lightly, people are just living on their nerves. They cannot keep going. Families are being torn apart. We cannot take this burden of stress. Something as simple as giving us individual property protections specifically for timber-framed housing would take a lot of the pressure off. As Ms Power said, there is a need to release the money and untie Cork County Council's hands. It should be given the money it needs to do the maintenance work that is required. They are simple measures.

Ms Martina Williams:

As I mentioned earlier, I am not living in the village of Killeagh. I am about a 30-minute walk away, but my property is about 500 m from the river. I joined the group because of the flooding. Killeagh was badly affected by these events. A community hub, Greywood Arts, which offers artists' residencies, had just restored a coach house.

It celebrated its opening in June 2023, only for Storm Babet to destroy everything, the whole works. It had to start from scratch. The villagers played a big part in helping it. My particular issue is that Fanisk went under the radar. I spoke to a local representative who was not even aware that the area had been flooded. We are part of the area and were affected as well. We want to be treated like the other villages and not deferred. I do not think we are in CFRAM or tranche 2. We need to be upgraded and included so that we benefit when this work goes ahead. Where the logistics and works are involved, please take us in and do the whole lot at the same time.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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Does Mr. Drury want to add to that?

Mr. Kenneth Drury:

What do I want to see happen? Expedite the process for the four areas in question and maybe use them as a template moving forward. If I had created a plan in my project management consultancy seven years ago and had not implemented it since, I would not be in the same organisation. What I understand is that we now have to go back and create another plan. Where is the accountability here? I would like to see the processes expedited.

The members have heard from the other witnesses. The majority of those in the local communities know what the best solution is for their towns. If they could just be listened to and be a bigger part of the process, they could help. When it floods in all these communities, it is the locals who deal with it. It is not the people sitting a million miles away in an office who will inevitably dictate how to fix the problem. There has to be more engagement and more power has to be put back into the hands of the communities because if this keeps happening, they will not stand for it. I can see that on the ground. That is all I have to say on that.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Mr. Drury. Everyone will have a chance to come back in again. I know Senator Andrews is waiting to come in again, but I want to record for our witnesses and anyone watching in that, as a committee, we are aware that when the cameras move on, it is the communities that are left to deal with it. Everyone shares the video footage and we see the floodwaters going down the middle of the villages on the RTÉ news and all of that, but Ms Jeffers described in detail what it was like. It is the human impact.

We are very grateful to the witnesses. It is not nice or easy. We completely understand the toll it takes to come here and to have to talk about experiences that are not just your local area's, but are also very personal. We thank them for that. I hope they understand that it is not lost on us just how bloody tough it is to have to do that and - no disrespect to the committee members - how much the witnesses would rather be anywhere else except here. I always say that politicians are a little bit like dentists, in that people are maybe happy enough that we are there but they do not want to see us in the course of our work. I understand that, but we are very grateful to the witnesses for sharing their experiences with us.

Chris Andrews (Sinn Fein)
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Deputy Buckley has spoken about this so much. I do not know the area involved personally, but after years of Deputy Buckley raising the issue at this and various other committees and within the party, I know it intimately. The witnesses' stress and strain is clear. The effect it has on families and individuals is horrendous for them.

In the petition, the witnesses said families in the affected area feel abandoned. It is safe to say they have been abandoned. That is the reality. The solutions are available. As Ms Power said, all they need is the money. The plan is in place but the OPW and the Minister, ultimately, are responsible for abandoning residents in these communities. Deputy Buckley has constantly raised it. It is horrific what people have to put up with. In my area of south Dublin, a good few years ago Ringsend faced serious flooding and people had to be moved out of their homes. It was particularly traumatic for the old people. Even now, when there is heavy rain or flooding on Sandymount Strand or along the Dodder, people are still traumatised and remember that and are fearful. I can only imagine how difficult it is for the witnesses but ultimately it comes down to the Minister not releasing the money and not committing to this project. That is what needs to be done. Like the Chair said, ordinary families are having to pay the price and pick up the piece for Government failure. I wish the witnesses well. They have our support in their campaign.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I thank the witnesses for being here today. Half of my family are from Cork.

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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The good half.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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I do not think it is fair to ask Senator McCarthy to divide his family into the good and the not good. I am sure all his family are lovely.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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They are all wonderful. My heart goes out to the witnesses. When they mentioned the Minister of State, Deputy Moran, I was reminded that in the early days I knew of him from dealing with the floods in Athlone. He is the Minister of State with responsibility in this regard. I do not know the man personally but I would say the witnesses have to be pushing an open door when it comes to what they want done. I am surprised at the seven-year delay. What happens when it comes to insurance? How do they insure their homes?

Ms Martina Williams:

Not at all. It is not possible. It will not be renewed - not against flooding or subsidence.

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

We can have house insurance but without flooding.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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They can have house insurance for fire but not flooding. Regarding the council, it is putting in a biogas facility - is that true?

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

It is a local farmer. Planning has gone in but it is only early days. It is just a plan so far.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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This is land the witnesses felt would have helped them with regard to flood defences.

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

It had been identified as helping.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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Those are my questions. Insurance is the big one.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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It is. Am I right in saying all of the area that was impacted previously by flooding, including areas that have been built on since and could potentially be built on, cannot get flood insurance?

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

As far as we are aware.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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You can get standard house insurance.

Mr. Kenneth Drury:

I agree. The residents here cannot get insurance against flooding either.

Ms Catherine Power:

Standard house insurance has also increased.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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That was going to be my next question. They do not pay the same rate.

Ms Catherine Power:

No, because you had a claim previously. You cannot get insurance unless you have €4,500. We were quoted €4,500 for flood insurance, which we cannot afford.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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For a normal-sized house.

Ms Catherine Power:

Yes.

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

We bought our house in Mogeely in 2017. It was not until we bought it and went looking for insurance that we found out we could not have flood cover. We were told none of that area had ever flooded and would never flood, just roads in and out would. Nothing was available to us to investigate further. We went with it and then it flooded and we found out people who moved in after us had flood cover. The parameters had changed somehow.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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I wonder was it something to do with the passage of time; I do not know. At the end of the day, the witnesses do not have flood insurance.

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

We put in for a claim because it was rainwater coming in. There was wording in our policy that it would be covered. We were penalised then for putting in that claim. We were charged €250 and our insurance was loaded then when we went to renew.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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The price goes up then.

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

We still did not get cover.

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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The witnesses said they are still paying full-value property tax. There is no relief on that.

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

No.

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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We will write to the Department with recommendations. From listening to the witnesses, the number one issue is proper engagement and urgency and the most important thing is accountability and timelines - when will it start, will there be €750,000, €2 million or €10 million, and will the digger come down on Wednesday, Thursday or whenever? When we get responses from the Department, if the witnesses do not get the answers they need, I suggest we bring in the OPW and the Minister. That is just a suggestion. I realise it has to go to other members as well

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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What strikes me from the evidence we have heard and from the Deputy, who has been a champion of this cause for a long time, the people who could potentially be making decisions and helping have not all been together at the same time. The witness referred to meeting Cork County Council, it comes out, and then the OPW comes out. It might just be that all these bright and brilliant minds, if we could get them into the one room together, we might be able to get people to see a bit of common sense. I am not trying to put words in anyone's mouth, but from listening to the evidence of the witnesses and having read the correspondence, it strikes me that the decision-makers are not always together at the same time, which makes things difficult. It is not that people are trying to be difficult but if they were all in the same room, that might be somewhat helpful.

Liam Quaide (Cork East, Social Democrats)
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Mr. Drury spoke of the need for community engagement and for the autonomy and agency of residents to be acknowledged, validated and included in decisions around flood relief. Professor Mary Bourke from Trinity College Dublin was commissioned by Cork County Council last year to do a survey of the potential of land use or nature-based solutions in east Cork. She held a public meeting in Midleton which I know Mr. Drury attended. She spoke very inspiringly at that meeting about giving communities back a sense of autonomy and about projects that residents can undertake to build up flood resilience in towns and villages. That is not to say these measures are a silver bullet but cumulatively, they can be significant in an overall flood relief plan.

It is difficult for any of us psychologically to adjust to a threat of harm but when there is some clarity about what that harm is and how long it might last, the potential for people to adjust is quite remarkable. There is a whole different level of distress involved when people are left entirely in limbo, as the witnesses are, and completely powerless and without timeframes. If the witnesses knew it would be two years before a flood scheme was delivered in their area, at least that would be something they could aim for and there would be some possibility for adjustment, but they are left very much in no man's land.

The witnesses spoke here and previously in other forums about the emotional impact on themselves and other residents of the floods when they struck in 2023 and 2015. They spoke about the overwhelming fear and shock, the traumatic loss and the massive upheaval involved in being out of their homes and trying to put everything back together and then the fear that arises every time there is another severe weather alert. What is the emotional experience like for them now? There has been a period of a few months where there has not been a severe weather alert but we are still only a couple of years on from Storm Babet. Are they seeing anything happening materially that will protect them? What is that like psychologically for them?

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

For me personally, it is worse. At the time of the flooding, I had my children at home with me, so I had to actively think of our survival, follow my instinct and get out and get us away.

After that I had to build, tidy up and cut away all the things that were wet, so I never had the time to process it. Since then, I have had to knock on the doors of all the agencies to try to get solutions and get my home protected to protect my children. I have never had the time to sit back, think and process what I have been through, or even give myself the time to get over what I have been through. I notice two years on that each rainfall, like the heavy rainfall on 11 November, was when all of my flashbacks came back. That is when I dropped and I froze. The emotions just came back. It is two years on when the rain comes that I am reliving it and facing the fear. I cannot describe it any more than that. It is horrific.

Liam Quaide (Cork East, Social Democrats)
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I imagine there must be a lot of anger for some of the witnesses too.

Ms Catherine Power:

I concur with everything Mrs. Jeffers has said. With the first rains of winter, it starts all over again. We had a beautiful summer. It was incredible. You did not have to worry about it. You passed the river bed, and it was dry. It was brilliant, maybe not so much for the fisheries, because they counted on it, but every time we saw it was dry I was thrilled because it meant you were not worried about it. However, as soon as the first rains come, it is amazing how quickly it swells and increases again. Last Friday night week when we had that heavy rain, it was touch and go, and we were watching it. I was sitting in the car at approximately 10 p.m. with my hot water bottle and flask of tea keeping an eye on it and watching the road to protect the houses. We had cones out. That is huge. You are watching people coming home in their merriment having been out socialising and you are sitting in your car in misery praying that the rains will stop. It is no way to live. You are surviving but it is not living.

Ms Vivienne Jeffers:

The Chair mentioned that the world sees the pictures and then moves on, so it is up to us to fight for each area. We have to drum up the media attention again. Every time we have to do that it is like we are going into battle. The Deputy mentioned that before in one of his speeches and hit the nail on the head. We are going into battle every time. We have to go into military mode, and we cannot survive like that. Nobody can be expected to live like that.

Mr. Kenneth Drury:

To answer Deputy Quaide, the question I pose to everybody in the room is: how they would feel if a plan was approved seven years ago and they now have to go back to the drawing board? There is no accountability for money, resources and time spent back then. As I said previously, if that happened in my job, I would be fired. I am not looking for any heads to roll over this. However, it is expedience, speed, assurance and engagement for people not to have hope as a strategy. Hope is not a strategy in anything. It is seven years since 2018 and we have to create a new plan; just think about that. This is an approved plan. We have talked about a couple of things here. We have talked about solutions like Deputy Buckley mentioned. We are not talking about problems, problems and problems. In my line of work, I hear problems and I come up with solutions to them. Even if the solution for Rathcormac is approved, we may not agree with it, but it will not be getting implemented so far as I can see. There is a solution there for the other areas as well, but that is it. What else is going to happen? We are going to get another storm, and it is going to flood again. All hell will break loose because some of the residents will just not stand for it. How do I feel? I feel less confident anyway.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Mr. Drury. It is not lost on the members of the committee. To live in fear of rain and live in Ireland, we can understand that, and the committee can certainly consider what we can do constructively to help. It strikes me there are a lot of reports, a lot of reviews and a lot of evidence. There is a huge amount available, and I am sure the witnesses' two local representatives who are here will agree with me that there is a huge amount of evidence available locally from talking from local people who understand.

One of our witnesses said they are not engineers. However, they are local people with a lot of experience as to what an engineer would have to learn. They already know because they are living it.

If there are no other questions, I propose to bring the session to a conclusion. I emphasise to our witnesses my gratitude to them for coming in this morning. I do not know about other committee members with me, but I have had the experience, before I was elected, of appearing in front of a few Oireachtas committees, and it is not easy. Sometimes it is the last thing you want to do or the last place you want to be. I am very struck by the witnesses' determination and the dignity and the thought that have gone into their engagement this morning. As a committee, we will commit ourselves to doing what we can to constructively assist their situation. There are a lot of reviews, a lot of reports and a huge amount of scientific, anecdotal and local scientific information. It is all there.

To their absolute credit, all of the witnesses spoke this morning only about solutions. Actually, it is only in response to our questions that they have described the problems. We have asked them to focus a little on the impact and the problems because we need to understand that too. That is important. They have come in, however, with a bag of solutions. As a committee, we will consider what we can do to constructively assist with this matter. I sincerely thank our witnesses, both online and in person, for attending and for sharing their knowledge with us this morning. As I said, we will consider, after this meeting and at future meetings, what we can do to constructively assist them.

We will now suspend for a few moments to allow our witnesses to take their leave. Is that agreed? Agreed.