John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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You are all very welcome to today's meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts. Before we proceed, I have a few housekeeping matters to go through. Members are reminded of the provisions within Standing Order 226 that the committee shall refrain from inquiring into the merits of a policy or policies of the Government or a Minister of the Government, or the merits of the objectives of such policies. Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I remind members of the constitutional requirement that in order to participate in public meetings, they must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex. Members of the committee attending remotely must do so from within the precincts of Leinster House.

The agenda for today is discussion of the accounts and statements; correspondence; and upcoming meetings. We will then suspend the meeting and begin the engagement with officials from the Department of Transport. The minutes of the meeting of 6 November 2025 have been agreed and will be published on the committee's website. The six sets of accounts and financial statements were laid between 3 November and 7 November 2025 and are due to be considered today.

We are joined by the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, who is a permanent witness to the committee. I ask the Comptroller and Auditor General to address the financial statements before opening the floor to members.

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

First, we have the financial statements of the Citizens Information Board for 2024. They received a clear audit opinion.

The next four are subsidiaries of Horse Racing Ireland. The financial statements for Fairyhouse Club Limited for 2024 received a clear audit opinion. The financial statements of the Leopardstown Club Limited for 2024 received a clear audit opinion. The financial statements of the Tipperary Race Company plc for 2024 received a clear audit opinion. The financial statements of Tote Ireland Limited for 2024 received a clear audit opinion.

Finally, we have the motor tax account for 2024. That received a clear audit opinion, but I did draw attention to Chapter 21 of the Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2024, which examines the collection of motor vehicle taxes. That is on the agenda for the next session of the committee.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Do members wish to comment? No. Can we agree to note the listing of accounts and financial statements? Agreed. The listing of accounts and financial statements will be published as part of our minutes.

We will now consider B items of correspondence which have been received from Accounting Officers and Government bodies. The first item is No. R0329. It is from the PSM governance and policy unit at the Department of Culture, Communications and Sport, dated 31 October 2025, informing the committee of the late laying of the 2024 accounts for RTÉ. Is it agreed to note and publish this item? Agreed.

No. R0333 is correspondence from the chief executive officer at Beaumont Hospital, dated 13 November 2025, providing a response to information requested at the public accounts committee meeting on 9 October 2025. Is it agreed to note and publish this item? Agreed.

No. R0334 is correspondence from the chief executive officer at the National Treatment Purchase Fund board, dated 5 November 2025, providing a response to information requested at the public accounts committee meeting of 9 October 2025. Is it agreed to note and publish that item? Agreed.

No. R0335 is correspondence from the part-time broadcast workers here within the Houses of the Oireachtas. We had a discussion in our private session in relation to this. We have agreed to write to the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission to get an update, given the information we have been supplied that no companies have tendered to continue the broadcasting of Oireachtas proceedings from 1 January. That is an issue of concern, given previous engagement we have had with the commission to the effect that it was its priority to ensure continuity of coverage and the fact that no tenders have been submitted.

I propose we write to the commission to seek an update as to what contingency arrangements are in place given that situation. We will also ask the Department of public expenditure to carry out a review of previous figures we had obtained with a view to making the part-time broadcast workers full-time civil servants to provide that broadcast coverage for the Oireachtas. Is it agreed to take action on those two issues. Agreed.

Moving on to the work programme, next week, on Thursday, 20 November, the committee will examine funding of the Peter McVerry Trust and the Comptroller and Auditor General chapter on exceptional funding of the Peter McVerry Trust. The committee will have three sessions. In session 1 at 9.30 a.m. the committee will engage with Mr. Francis Doherty, the former CEO; at session 2 at 11 a.m. the committee will meet the Charities Regulator and the Approved Housing Bodies Regulatory Authority; and in session 3 at 2 p.m., the committee will meet the Peter McVerry Trust.

The next item is any other business. Are there any other items which members wish to discuss?

James Geoghegan (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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On Monday, 10 November, there was a report on the front page of the Irish Independent about a live criminal trial that I will not comment on. However, the issue of age verification in respect of unaccompanied minors in Tusla-held premises arose in that article. You will recall, Chair, that this is an issue that arose in two of our engagements with both Tusla and the Department of justice. When the Department of justice was before us and I probed as to who, ultimately, was legally responsible for carrying out the question of age verification, the Secretary General was not in a position to give me that reply nor was anybody else from the Department. They indicated that, as a matter of practice, it was carried out by Tusla, but you will recall that when Tusla was here, it was an issue of major concern to its representatives. The Department of justice spoke about future legislation. However, the Secretary General did say at that meeting that she would come back to us today on that legal position and provide clarity on it. Did she come back? Has the Department of justice clarified to the public accounts committee what is the legal position? Is it the legal position of the Department of justice that it is its responsibility to carry out age verification of unaccompanied minors or what is the position?

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I will ask the clerk on this. I know the Deputy mentioned this is the subject of a broader issue of a criminal investigation and there are legal issues so I know we are not straying into that area. I confirm we have written to the Department of justice. There were a number of areas on which further information was sought following that engagement with the Department. We have written to it and we have requested all of that. We have not received anything as yet so we will follow up again.

James Geoghegan (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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I will close on this. I expressed my astonishment on the day the Department representatives were here that there was nobody from the Department who knew whether it was legally responsible for carrying out age verification. Tusla seemed to have a contrary view. I am even more surprised that, days and days, if not two weeks, since we had that hearing and this issue arose, we still have not got that clarity. I hope the Department will provide that clarity on a matter of extreme public importance.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Absolutely. As I said, we will follow up again. It is concerning; I agree with the Deputy’s comments. We will follow up again with the Department in relation to that. As there are no other items under any other business we will suspend for five minutes.