Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Wednesday, 12 November 2025
Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate, Environment and Energy
Review of Storm Éowyn and Storm Preparedness: Discussion
2:00 am
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Apologies have been received from Deputy Ciarán Ahern and Senator Alice-Mary Higgins. The first item on the agenda is engagement with witnesses on the Review of Storm Éowyn and on Ireland's storm preparedness. Today's meeting is a joint meeting involving the Joint Committee on Climate, Environment and Energy and the Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage. I am delighted to be joined by the Cathaoirleach of the latter, Deputy Micheál Carrigy. He has just stepped out but is in attendance.
I welcome the witnesses. From the national directorate for fire and emergency management in the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, we have Mr. Keith Leonard, chair of the national emergency co-ordination group, NECG, and Mr. Paul Rock, deputy chair of the national emergency co-ordination group. From the LGMA and the County and City Management Association, we have Mr. Kieran Kehoe, chair of the CCMA corporate and emergency planning committee, and Mr. Cóilín O’Reilly, chair of the CCMA rural, community, culture and heritage committee. From ESB Networks DAC, we have Mr. Nicholas Tarrant, managing director, Mr. Brian Brady, head of network resilience and climate adaptation, and Ms. Karen McGeough, senior manager for storm readiness and resilience. From An Crompán, we have Mr. Séan Ó Domhnaill, manager, who is joining us via MS Teams. I thank the witnesses for attending.
I remind all those in attendance to ensure their mobile phones are on silent mode or switched off. Before I invite the witnesses to deliver their opening statements, I wish to advise them of the following in relation to parliamentary privilege. Witnesses and members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.
Regarding the format of this meeting, we will have a bit of a hard stop because of Dáil business and upcoming votes. I will invite the witnesses in turn to make opening statements limited to a maximum of five minutes. Once these have been delivered, I will then call on the members of the committee, in the order that they indicate to me, to put their questions. The committee operates a rota system and I will provide each member with an initial five-minute slot to engage with our witnesses. It is important to note that the five minutes are for questions and answers. Therefore, it is essential that members put their questions succinctly and that witnesses answer succinctly. Members just have five minutes. When all members have concluded their initial engagements, if time permits, we will have a second round in which each member will have up to three minutes for questions and answers. Please note that the duration of this meeting is limited and, therefore, times must be strictly adhered to. The aim is to finish at approximately 2.30 p.m. I ask everyone to be focused in their contributions.
I will call on the various organisations to deliver their opening statements in the following order: Mr. Keith Leonard, Department of housing; Mr. Kieran Kehoe, LGMA; Mr. Nicholas Tarrant, ESB Networks DAC: and Mr. Séan Ó Domhnaill, An Crompán.
Mr. Keith Leonard:
I thank the Cathaoirleach and members for the opportunity to discuss the findings of the review of the national emergency co-ordination group's response to Storm Éowyn. I am here today in my role as national director of the national directorate for fire and emergency management, NDFEM, which is a section of the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage’s local government division and which has responsibility for co-ordinating the review. The Government task force on emergency planning is responsible for emergency planning at national level, supported by the office of emergency planning in the Department of Defence.
The strategic emergency management framework 2017 sets out the emergency management practice at national level and designates lead Departments for a range of emergency types. Under this framework, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage leads the response to severe weather events through the national directorate for fire and emergency management. The national directorate activates and operates the national emergency co-ordination group process in accordance with the strategic emergency management framework guideline 1, published by the office of emergency planning. The review of the national emergency co-ordination group's response to Storm Éowyn was conducted in accordance with that framework. The national directorate established a review steering group, together with working groups, to examine the humanitarian response and review critical infrastructure resilience. This review was submitted to the Government task force on emergency planning, which encompasses all relevant Departments, for views prior to finalisation and it was subsequently presented to the Government and published.
The Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage has a number of direct areas of responsibility for severe weather, including: weather forecasting undertaken by Met Éireann; responsibility for water policy and oversight of Uisce Éireann; responsibilities relating to the local authorities’ fire service policy; and co-ordination of the NECG response to severe weather. The arrangements underpinning the NECG response necessitate the direct participation of all Government Departments, local authorities, emergency services and utilities.
The arrangements underpinning an NECG response necessitate the direct participation of all Departments, local authorities, emergency services and utilities. As a consequence, this review covers a wide range of policy areas, many of which are the responsibility of other Departments and of organisations under their aegis.
The national directorate activates and co-ordinates a whole-of-government response to severe weather events through activation of the NECG for very high-impact storms, prolonged freezing conditions and widespread flooding emergencies, but that response relies on the actions of many other Departments and bodies to deliver services and solutions. The local authorities, which are independent, have responsibility for the response to severe weather emergencies. It is widely acknowledged that the local authorities consistently demonstrate both leadership and capacity in dealing with severe weather. Local co-ordination groups are the locus of strategic co-ordination when emergencies and severe weather events cause significant disruption.
The activation of the NECG in response to a storm is an exceptional measure. Most storms and severe weather events are managed at the local level. Typically, for named storms, Met Éireann operates a technical briefing in partnership with the national directorate and key Departments and agencies. However, the scale of damage and disruption which was signalled at an early stage by Met Éireann left no doubt that it was necessary to activate a whole-of-government response in advance of Storm Éowyn.
In considering the NECG response, we acknowledge the hardship faced by many communities during and immediately following Storm Éowyn. We understand that because of the extensive disruption many people were left without electricity and water supply for an extended duration. It is important to recognise that communities heeded public safety advice communicated by the NECG in advance of the storm and took action to protect lives and help family, friends and neighbours who were most in need in the aftermath of Storm Éowyn. The review demonstrates that the collective response capacity of local authorities, combined with the support of all Departments and key agencies, co-ordinated through the NECG is a well-rehearsed response mechanism that works effectively. We acknowledge the continued support from multiple Departments and public and semi-State bodies to underpin our Department's co-ordination role when the NECG is activated. We are grateful to the Office of Emergency Planning, OEP, for assisting the national directorate from the earliest stages of the response operation to its conclusion. Given the time available and detail provided in the review, I will not go through the NECG response in detail. Instead, I will highlight the key learnings identified for which my Department has policy responsibility.
Following the completion of a damage assessment by ESB Networks, reported to the NECG on Saturday 24 January, it became clear that the damage to the low voltage network was severe in many parts of the country. ESB Networks indicated that many customers would be without electricity for an extended duration, with this scale of disruption not experienced in any previous event. Given the hardship faced by many communities, the local authorities moved to establish emergency hubs. Simultaneously, a subgroup on humanitarian assistance, chaired by the Department of An Taoiseach, was established under the NECG to support local authorities in responding to the needs of people who were significantly impacted by the storm. At the peak of the response there were over 380 hubs in operation throughout the impacted areas co-ordinated by local authorities and provided through local voluntary and sporting groups. The highest priority following the response to Storm Éowyn was the development of guidance to ensure hubs could be established rapidly following a future large-scale disruption to power supplies. A guide to community support centres is now in place and eight centres were activated by Donegal County Council during Storm Amy. This guide will be used by all local authorities over the winter season and will be reviewed by the national directorate with the local authorities next March. The directorate is reviewing a guide to local co-ordination centres which are operated by local authorities to take account of the findings of the review on public communication and co-ordination, facilitating a much wider inclusion of supporting agencies within local co-ordination groups.
While operational issues are a matter for the local government sector, the national directorate will continue to work with local authority fire services to ensure policies and guidance support an increase in resilience of fire stations, regional communication centres, mobilising and alerting equipment and radio systems, working with the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer. We have circulated some documents to the committee referred to in these opening remarks, including A Framework for Major Emergency Management 2006 and its appendices, the Strategic Emergency Management Framework 2017, A Guide to Community Support Centres from 2025 and a number of other documents.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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The next speaker is Mr. Kehoe from the LGMA.
Mr. Kieran Kehoe:
My name is Kieran Kehoe and I am the chief executive of Meath County Council. I am here today in my capacity as chair of the corporate and emergency planning committee of the CCMA. I am joined by my colleague, Mr. Cóilín O’Reilly, chief executive of Carlow County Council and chair of the CCMA's rural, community, culture and heritage committee. The CCMA welcomes the opportunity to discuss the Review of Storm Éowyn report and Ireland’s storm preparedness.
Local authorities have been central to the development of emergency management and are one of three principal response agencies along with the HSE and An Garda Síochána. Local authorities have a vital role in responding to emergency scenarios identified in the framework for major emergency management, MEM. In accordance with this framework, local authorities are designated as the principal response agency for severe weather events. Our written statement includes a diagram showing the overall MEM structure across the country.
During Storm Éowyn, local authorities across the country activated their response teams, including severe weather assessment teams, major emergency management teams, crisis management teams and local and regional co-ordination groups as necessary and the local authority teams were deployed as soon as the red weather warning passed through each individual county. Local authorities demonstrated great resilience, co-ordination and adaptability in response to the unprecedented impact of Storm Éowyn in January 2025. The mid-west, midlands, north-west, west and north-east regions were more severely impacted by the storm and these areas faced more significant challenges around higher volumes of emergency calls, blocked roads, infrastructure damage and social housing impacts.
Key actions by local authorities already underway include the publication of Community Support Centres: A Guide to Assisting Volunteer Groups in Response to an Emergency. We developed this guide in conjunction with the NDFEM and the OEP and it was adopted by the CCMA. It has been circulated and is now operational across the sector. Local authorities have submitted their severe weather plans and flood plans to the NDFEM and will continue to do so on a biannual basis. The local authority sector fully participates in and engages with the NDFEM and NECG in relation to all emergency planning issues. Local Authorities also work closely with the Department of Transport and Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, on winter maintenance planning arrangements and preparedness for road networks. The local authority sector is committed to establishing formalised arrangements with private contractors on a local basis for snow clearance and use of machinery and assistance in severe weather events. Local Authorities are also ensuring that maritime ports are prepared for the winter season. Along with these key actions, the CCMA's corporate and emergency planning committee engages with numerous Departments and offices and these are listed in our written submission.
Local authorities play a key role in promoting household and community resilience and readiness. For example, Monaghan County Council recently issued a leaflet entitled Personal and Community Resilience, which encourages members of the public and their families to make sensible preparations to be self-sufficient during an emergency or evacuation so that first responders can focus on emergencies. The local authority sector is working with the NDFEM to develop a national version for circulation.
Local authorities play a critical role in the dissemination of information to local citizens through their social media platforms, websites, and local and regional radio stations. We have communication protocols in place and most local authorities use dedicated lines for call centre communications with the public in severe weather situations. Predominately through our Civil Defence units, local authorities assisted the HSE, An Garda Síochána and ESB Networks, where possible, in their communication with vulnerable and isolated people. The dynamic nature of vulnerability, where individuals not previously identified may become vulnerable during a crisis, highlighted the need for more flexible and responsive systems. Local authorities are committed to adhering to cancelling public events, in line with regulations, where an orange wind warning threshold is forecast.
The existing MEM framework provides guidance for local and regional co-ordinators for severe weather events. Over the past number of severe weather events these co-ordination groups have brought in other relevant stakeholders, such as ESB Networks, Uisce Éireann, the Irish Farmers Association and forestry contractors, as the situation demanded locally.
Severe storms present challenges for the local authority sector. In our review, we have identified communications as one of those key areas. The telecommunications blackouts put our services under strain and we had to develop our own local workarounds in order to communicate with all of our staff. We were fully deployed across the country, particularly at the peak of the storm on 25 and 26 of January but as the storm persisted and the response continued, a strain was put on the resilience of our staff over an extended period of response. The infrastructure disruption, particularly to power and water, meant that up to 40% of our operations were disrupted in some shape or form. In terms of inter-agency co-ordination we have identified gaps but are in the process of remedying those.
Key priorities for us in relation to our future preparedness relate to the community-centred response that has been mentioned; acquisition and distribution of generators; integrated co-ordinated frameworks; the building of a resilient infrastructure; scalable staffing models; data governance for vulnerable populations; and, indeed, funding of the response and recovery.
The severe weather events of January 2025, marked by the prolonged snow event and the unprecedented impact of Storm Éowyn, were a defining test of Ireland's local government emergency response systems. The scale, intensity and duration of these events exposed both the strengths and vulnerabilities of our current frameworks. Local authorities demonstrated remarkable agility, commitment and community leadership in the face of adversity. From activating emergency teams, responding to approximately 17,650 calls and deploying Civil Defence units to establishing over 400 community hubs, the sector mobilised rapidly and effectively. However, the events highlighted a need to build further resilience for future emergencies.
The CCMA is committed to working with Departments, statutory agencies and community partners to implement these lessons. We believe that with the right investment, collaboration and policy support, Ireland’s local government sector can continue to lead in emergency preparedness and response, thereby ensuring safety, resilience and care for all communities.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I call the third speaker, Nicholas Tarrant of ESB Networks DAC.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
I thank the Cathaoirligh and members of both committees for the invitation to today's meeting. I am the managing director of ESB Networks. I am joined by my colleagues, Brian Brady, who is head of network resilience and climate adaptation in ESB Networks, and Ms Karen McGeough, who is the senior manager responsible for storm resilience and readiness. We welcome the opportunity to discuss ESB Networks' review of Storm Éowyn and answer any questions the members may have on the work streams we are actively working on since the storm.
At the outset, I acknowledge the hardship experienced by families, farms, communities and businesses directly affected by Storm Éowyn and its impact on the electricity network. ESB Networks, together with our contract partners and other UK and European assistance, had to respond to the largest and most damaging storm event to impact on the electricity network in Ireland. Starting with approximately 768,000 of customers without electricity at the peak, in the immediate aftermath of Storm Éowyn, ESB Networks made every effort possible to restore electricity to customers as quickly as possible. Safety was our first concern during the restoration and repair work. Fallen or low-hanging electrical wires present a real danger to members of the public. The first phase of restoration work is to make the network safe, and a very important outcome is that there were no serious electrical safety incidents during the restoration efforts.
We have included some numbers in Appendix 1 of our submission to give a sense of the scale of Storm Éowyn. Ninety per cent of affected customers had their power restored within a week. However, due to the extent of the damage, the remaining 10% of customers - often in more isolated locations - had to endure a longer wait for restoration. During the storm restoration, we worked closely with many other agencies under the leadership of the National Emergency Coordination Group, NECG. The NECG played a vital role in co-ordinating a complex multi-agency response in areas such as supporting vulnerable customers, providing humanitarian hubs and supplying temporary generators to critical infrastructure sites. This allowed ESB Networks to focus on restoring electricity to customers as quickly as possible. We worked very closely with the local authorities, and I acknowledge the very important role they played in supporting the electricity restoration work on the ground.
ESB Networks has completed a comprehensive review of Storm Éowyn, which is published on our website. It covers areas such as storm preparedness, asset performance, resource mobilisation, customer communications and safety. There are findings and recommendations for each of the areas detailed in the report. From the data recorded, over 59% of faults involved trees from adjacent hedgerows and forestry. The rest of the faults arose as a result of damage to poles, overhead line conductors and associated equipment. During the restoration, approximately 4,500 poles were replaced, which is 0.2% of the total pole population across the network.
In March 2025, ESB Networks developed a Winter 2025 Grid Resilience Plan, which we published on our website, and we have since published an update on this plan which details the progress to date on the actions that are under way. This update is also included, as Appendix 3, in our submission. Progress is being made across all components of the plan including the post-storm inspection of the network, increasing storm materials stocks, mutual aid agreements with European utilities and additional emergency timber cutting.
To address the forestry issues, we have identified and prioritised corridors in the worst affected areas. We have commenced harvesting operations in targeted areas where we have the permission of the landowners. We are also working with the Department of Climate, Energy and Environment as draft new legislation to put forestry corridors on a statutory footing is developed.
In addition to the recently published storm review, we plan to publish two further reports. The first is a review of international utility practices following major storm events, focusing on measures to enhance network resilience, particularly against forest wind blow. The second is a review of our design standards for the distribution network, particularly in light of the higher wind speeds. We will publish both reports and associated recommendations in the new year.
Keeping customers informed during the storm restoration was a key priority for ESB Networks. In the worst affected areas, it was challenging to provide reasonable accuracy on estimated restoration times, ERTs, given the scale and widespread nature of the damage to the network. ESB Networks recognises this is a key area for further work and is taking steps, where possible, to enhance the accuracy and communication of ERTs to better support customers during future storm events. ESB Networks continues to seek every opportunity to further improve both storm resilience and restoration. That is the end of our introduction. I will now hand back to the Comhchathaoirleach. We are happy to take questions from the committee.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Tarrant. Tá an cainteoir deireanach, Seán Ó Domhnaill, bainisteoir Comharchumann Mhic Dara TEO, ar an líne.
Mr. Seán Ó Domhnaill:
I thank the committee for this opportunity to give the review from this side of the country and our involvement here. I am the manager of a community co-operative, Comharchumann Mhic Dara, which is based in An Cheathrú Rua in the Gaeltacht of County Galway. The main aim of Comharchumann Mhic Dara is to promote economic, social, language and cultural development in the An Cheathrú Rua area. We own and manage a community centre here, An Crompán, which has ten classrooms, a sports hall, changing facilities, shower facilities, a canteen, offices, a scuba diving centre and a Gteic for our digital hub. All this was possible because of the comharchumann, through the community here, Údarás na Gaeltachta and Roinn na Gaeltachta.
On 24 January 2025, Storm Éowyn was one of the most destructive storms in recent memory, prompting nationwide red wind warnings. We are based probably in one of the hardest hit areas and the impacts were extremely damaging for all. I saw this at first hand, as I am also a subofficer in the retained fire service here in An Cheathrú Rua. I saw it from both sides. On Monday evening, after the storm on 27 January, I received a call from Údarás na Gaeltachta and Roinn na Gaeltachta asking whether the comharchumann would be willing to open its facilities to the community, to which the committee and management agreed straight away. I then received a call from Galway County Council asking whether we would use a generator if we received one. I said we would use this facility, if any of them was available. Luckily, the electricity came back to us the next morning, Tuesday, which made it possible for us to open our doors to all here. We used the media to make sure everyone knew what was going on and the surrounding communities knew what was available here regarding all normal goings on. We were able to give them hot tea, coffee and drinking water and refreshments, provide charging of electronic equipment, hot shower facilities, clothes washing facilities if needed but, most importantly, a safe place for the community, young and old, to go to, and to also get documents required regarding entitlements due to the storm.
On Tuesday morning, the Minister, Deputy Calleary, held a meeting in our facilities, An Crompán, with State bodies, An Garda Síochána, Galway County Council and all the media that were in the area that was badly hit regarding the storm. This also had a positive effect in that the damage and destruction was seen at first hand by the Minister and all his staff. Our facilities stayed open for 17 days on the request of Galway County Council to all who needed them, from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m., seven days a week and the figures showed that well over 600 people availed of this service in that time. The comharchumann now is in the process of undertaking the design and costs of setting up a generator system for our facilities here for when needed again in time of need, which we know is not that far away from us.
I take this opportunity to praise the committee and management of the comharchumann, Roinn na Gaeltachta, the Minister, Deputy Calleary, and his team, the Údarás na Gaeltachta directors and their team, the team from Galway County Council, and the emergency services and public services for all their efforts during this challenging time. They showed great team work, professionalism and togetherness whenever possible during this bad time we had.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Go raibh maith agat, a Sheáin. I now invite members, in the order that they have indicated, to engage with the witnesses. I will call Deputy Micheál Carrigy, Chair of the housing committee, first.
Members have five minutes to speak, put their questions and interact with the witnesses. I am going to read out the list I have. I have Deputies Micheál Carrigy, Jennifer Whitmore, Joe Cooney, Brian Stanley, Malcolm Byrne, Pa Daly and Danny Healy-Rae and Senators Anne Rabbitte and Malcolm Noonan, and then anybody else I can take indications from. I call Deputy Micheál Carrigy.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I thank all the witnesses for being here and for their opening statements. I have a couple of points. It is important to put on the record the work done over that period, especially by the staff in the local authorities and ESB Networks. I know ESB Networks crews came up from County Kerry and other parts of the country to where I come from in County Longford. They were there all through the weekend, away from home and working through the night. I saw that hundreds of metres away from where I live. In tough conditions, they were cutting down forestry and fixing power lines. It is important that we put that on the record and thank all the staff for the huge amount of effort and work they put in during that time. It includes the staff of the local authority in my county. They also pulled out all the stops. It is important to recognise it.
From the local authority perspective, it was stated that resources were used. From a funding perspective, have they been adequately compensated? Has the shortfall in funding, because it had to be used earlier in the year, impacted other services?
Turning to the witnesses from the Department, regarding Irish Water plants, we had the issue that no generators were in place. We had water not being produced. Has this issue been addressed at all water treatment plants or production points? A comment was made in the context of the CCMA and Monaghan County Council. That should be done by every local authority. I know they are working on it, but it should be done and delivered to every household. It is not going to be delivered now until the new year because of the pre-Christmas booking system with An Post. That should have been done last week, but it has not been done.
With regard to forestry and the cutouts, we have had issues where forestry was planted too close to power lines. Where are we now with regard to the lines being cleared throughout the whole network? I know surveys were done with helicopters going around the whole country. My home county was the second highest area affected. Over 90% of connections were out. In some cases, this lasted for up to three weeks and 90% of the problems were caused where forestry had come down and taken out lines. It was extremely difficult to get into them. I would like the witnesses to address those comments and answer the questions if they could. I will start with the witnesses from the local authorities.
Mr. Kieran Kehoe:
In relation to the Deputy's comments to us, there is good and bad news on the funding compensation. I thank my colleagues here. We deployed a lot of our staff over that period, and the costs of the resources and people were all fully compensated. Substantial damage was done to our social housing stock, particularly in those areas I mentioned. A line could be drawn from County Louth to County Clare, and everything to the north west of it was very severely impacted. It involved lots of damage to our housing stock. That is going through the process of being recouped too.
The one area where we are having a challenge in seeking recoupment is roads damage. One of the things that may have been somewhat missed in the overall context is that west Cork took the initial impact of the rain that came in with Storm Éowyn. I mentioned the snow events that happened earlier in January, particularly in Limerick, north Kerry, west Tipperary and north Cork. Severe damage was done to the roads network there and we are still trying to recoup the costs. It is beyond our normal capacity. We are all familiar with our annual roads programmes. This damage is well beyond the capacity of the local authorities to repair.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Turning to the Department on the Irish Water issue and regarding an answer to the question concerning the shortfall in funding of roads, are there any plans in this regard?
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I am sure they will be talking to each other as well.
Mr. Keith Leonard:
I will take the Irish Water question first. The report sets out in a summary at the start the capacity Irish Water has taken on since Storm Éowyn in terms of generators. A further second phase of generator procurement will also be undertaken. I think there is going to be a substantial increase in the capacity. There already is for Irish Water at the moment. In relation to funding, we do not fund the roads aspect. We do, though, provide funding and we have received from all local authorities detailed requests for funding for expenditure during Storm Éowyn. It is funded through supplementary allocations, so as soon as we get that supplementary funding, we will press the button and get that money out. As I said, we hope that will happen very shortly.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I assume the recommendation to the Department of Transport will be that the funding should be allocated. My last question was for the ESB.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
I thank the Deputy for the question. I will pass over to Mr. Brady in a second to say a little more about forestry. It is a critical issue. We are working with the Department on drafting new legislation around forestry corridors to put them on a statutory footing. With the growth expected in forestry for the long term, this is really important. It was a major factor in how long it took us to repair certain areas. Even in our report, we have examples of where it took between three and up to seven days in some cases to get into these forestry corridors to do repairs. We have been doing work since the storm and Mr. Brady might say something briefly about it.
Mr. Brian Brady:
That is correct. As Mr. Tarrant said, it is set out in the report that 9% of all faults came from forestry, but this is just the quantity. It is really about the effort and the duration of the work needed to do repairs. It is this that causes delays. As Mr. Tarrant also said, it took several days for some of them. In total, we had 50 harvesters mobilised during the storm to clear all those forests. What we have done since is to set out our winter resilience plan. We identified the outages in parts of the network and the customers most impacted by recent storms. We zoned in on 710 km of corridors in particular. Within that area, we narrowed it down further to 377 km. We have since drone-surveyed all of the areas. We went out to tender and secured harvester capacity to harvest some of those corridors. We have also gone to our regulator to secure funding to allow us to do work on them.
Within those 377 km, we have identified 44 km of particular concern. They are priority 1 corridors. There are about 317 sites. We will have contacted the owners of every one of those sites either this week or next week. We have engaged with all these landowners. We will cut a corridor to clear the network and make it resilient, with the agreement of the landowners only. We are providing compensation in line with current agreements to allow us to be able to do it. We are concentrating on private areas of forestry and we are working closely with Coillte, which is looking after the corridors we are concerned about in its forests.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Just for the members' benefit, the electricity (supply) (amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2025 is due by the end of this year, as I understand it. It contains the work on corridors. I call Deputy Whitmore.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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I thank the witnesses for coming in. I agree with Deputy Carrigy that the work done by staff during Storm Éowyn was incredible, and indeed during other storms too. While the rest of us are trying to get warm and dry in our own homes during storms, these staff are actually out in the dark and the wind. We pass on our thanks to them for doing that. I will go backwards and forwards, and if I cut people off, that will be just due to a time issue and nothing else. The community support centres were an absolutely key part of the response last time. They provided a lifeline to many communities. How many have been set up now?
Mr. Coilín O'Reilly:
Through our major emergency management structure, we would have had support centres set up if a housing or apartment complex burnt down and we had to put people up for the night. It was sort of organic in the context of Storm Éowyn. On the Saturday night, we realised that people would be without power for a significant time.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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This is the bit where I am going to have to sound rude and interrupt. I am not being so, but I have limited time and I have a load of questions.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Under this programme, how many support centres have been set up?
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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From looking at this document, and this question is probably more for the officials from the Department, quite a lot of work is involved in getting these centres set up. A building must be identified and a group of volunteers must be got together. It is a big job for them to come and do this. There must then be subgroups of the different agencies, communications, etc. This work, though, is meant to be in place for 2025.
Mr. Coilín O'Reilly:
Just so the Deputy knows, we are finalising the list of centres now. We already have a list of centres we have used for things, but we are getting a national list together. It will be done in the next two weeks. We will then have the full list of centres nationally. As local authorities, we are all engaging individually with those centres. As Mr. Ó Domhnaill said, the council is always in contact with them in An Cheathrú Rua. These centres are all ready to go, but we just have to finalise the master list for the whole country.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Essentially, it will be the same centres set up under this framework.
That is what is expected. Is funding being provided?
Mr. Coilín O'Reilly:
During Storm Éowyn funding was provided to all centres and all their costs should have been met; we submitted them and I believe they were. The other thing happening at the moment is we are finalising a tender for generators. Mr. Ó Domhnaill said he got a generator from Galway County Council and we will have 93 generators across the country for national resilience, which will also be available to the centres should an event happen.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Perfect. The report states they will be part funded. Is this correct or will they be fully funded?
Mr. Coilín O'Reilly:
In fairness to the Department of Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht, it has committed to fund the project and the Minister, Deputy Calleary, is very keen on it. As it stands, it looks as though it will be fully funded. We are still evaluating the tenders and the report is due this Friday. We will know more then. Our preliminary view of the tenders is that they will be fully funded.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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This is really important. My next question is for ESB Networks and it on a similar issue relating to generation. One of the key recommendations of the report is ensuring that critical services are designed to deal with long periods without mains electrical power. I would imagine backup generation is part of this. During Storm Éowyn, 17 large generators were brought in from Europe. Is this correct? Have we purchased similar or are we still relying on international support if something happens?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
We engage very heavily with critical infrastructure providers but it is up to the individual entities to have backup generation available. For example, if we take the telecoms sector or any of the other sectors, and there has been mention of Uisce Éireann purchasing generators, our role in a storm situation such as this is to restore electricity as quickly as possible. The backup generation for the critical infrastructure providers is something they are progressing themselves.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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This is not something in the remit of ESB Networks. I would have thought that if the system goes down the ESB would ensure there was backup generation for residential areas but this is for individual agencies, so the HSE and local authorities are responsible for their own generators.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
Our role in the storms is to restore electricity as quickly as we can. We have a small number of generators that we did deploy during Storm Éowyn and I will pass over to Mr. Brady to speak about this. In general, critical infrastructure providers are responsible for having their own backup facilities available to them so that if the power is down they are able to continue to function.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Would ESB Networks not be seen as a critical infrastructure provider? Does it not have a responsibility as well to ensure it has some backup generation? If Uisce Éireann has to have it and the local authorities have to have it, it is surprising that the ESB, which provides electricity, does not have to have it.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
We do for some of our own facilities. Obviously, we need to be able to get power to our own facilities. However, if we take the broader picture around critical infrastructure, if a particular site in one of the worst affected areas in the west of Ireland does not have power because a tree has come down on an overhead line, if backup generation is needed for that particular location it is the provider itself that looks after it.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Will the ESB be bringing in additional generators from a storm preparedness perspective? I am going over time but I have another quick question and a yes-no answer to this is fine.
Mr. Brian Brady:
With regard to the structure adopted in Storm Éowyn, particularly in the 17 areas we have spoken about, we agreed with the NECG that we would deploy all of our resources on the restoration of electricity. Deployment of the 17 generators Deputy Whitmore mentioned was through the NECG and through the services largely of the Army, Civil Defence and so on to deploy them as needed.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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I have one more question about something I am quite concerned about. How much engagement with people with disabilities took place as part of this review? I can see the word "disability" mentioned only once and that is as an aside. Because people with disabilities are often very vulnerable, particularly in these instances, I would have hoped that serious consultation with disability organisations would have happened but I cannot see it represented in the document.
Mr. Keith Leonard:
We included all Departments, including the Department with responsibility for this policy area. We did not engage directly with any disability group. From a fire service perspective, we have our own interactions, including through community fire safety, where we deal directly with these issues. We did not interface directly on this.
Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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I see this as a big gap. The fact the word "disability" is mentioned only once in the entire document is a red flag. I ask that the NECG engages directly with people with disabilities themselves on what they would require in the event of a storm.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses for coming in today and I compliment all their workers and all of the workers in the local authorities out there who did fantastic work after Storm Éowyn. As we are well aware, it is probably one of the worst storms we have seen in our lifetime. I hope we will not see one like it again. To go back to the review of Storm Éowyn, the Department of housing recommended new legislation to reduce the risk to power and communication systems from vegetation and forestry. We are all well aware, unfortunately, of the number of trees knocked during the storm. The amount of damage caused to the electricity system was unbelievable. As we are well aware, houses were left without electricity for up to 12 or 14 days. I compliment the ESB on the fantastic work its workers did after the storm. This is an issue I have raised with the Minister. Do we have any update on when the legislation will be introduced and how it will be enforced so as not to allow this to happen in future?
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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It is very important that the legislation is put in place. Again, we do not want to see the likes of what we have seen happen in the past to happen again in future. Do the representatives from ESB Networks want to come in on this?
Ms Karen McGeough:
As the report showed, 8.5% of the faults across the country had forestry as a primary cause. I will explain how we measured this. We looked at damage assessments carried out by more than 1,000 people throughout the storm and we have data on where forestry was referenced. Absolutely as Mr. Tarrant and others have said, this is concentrated in the Longford and Sligo area. This has led to us engaging with the Department on the development of legislation to put forestry corridors on a statutory footing. I will pass to Mr. Brady to discuss some of the detail on this.
Mr. Brian Brady:
Deputy Cooney is probably aware the heads of the Bill were approved before the summer and legislation is being prepared by the Department. As Mr. Tarrant mentioned in his opening statement, we are doing an international review, which we will use to inform the right structures to be put on it. I expect it will be the new year before the legislation is in place.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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To try to be helpful, we expect the electricity (supply) (amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2025, which we mentioned earlier, to come this committee for pre-legislative scrutiny before the end of the year. This is the Bill that Deputy Cooney is speaking about. It is on establishing and maintaining forestry corridors. Deputy Cooney asked a question that was not answered. How does the ESB see enforcement working? Who will do the enforcement?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
I do not know whether enforcement is the right term but we would look to have powers to be able to go in and cut these corridors as needed to protect the overhead network from damage. Ultimately, as we do with every landowner, we will be looking to engage. Having statutory powers to be able to go in and cut these corridors would give us the facility to be able to do it.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Another big issue is group water schemes, which supply thousands of rural homes. They have received only one mention in the review, which is disappointing. Has any work been done to equip these vital systems with generators to ensure continuity after major storms such as Storm Éowyn? We do not want to see it happen again that so many houses are without water. Does someone have an update on generators?
Ms Karen McGeough:
In the immediate aftermath of the storm we engaged with a lot of critical infrastructure providers, including Uisce Éireann. As recently as this week we had an update from it. It is working on the deployment of mobile and fixed generation. We are working very closely with it on some of the other actions. We do know it is working on the deployment and procurement of mobile and fixed generation. We are working with it to help prioritise those areas as to where they would put them.
That work is ongoing.
Joe Cooney (Clare, Fine Gael)
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That is very encouraging and as I say, hopefully it is the one we need in the future. However, it is important we do not see what has happened in the past happen again in the future.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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To pick up, the information on Irish Water and its upgrading should be distributed to the environment and housing committees. Both committees are represented here. I call Senator Rabbitte.
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses for being here today. It goes without saying I also want to acknowledge the work their people did on the ground during Storm Éowyn. Having said that, there are still issues.
My first question is to the Department. Where are we with standardisation? I am from Galway. I live on the border, believe it or not, as I live in Portumna and I have Offaly on one side and Tipperary on the other. When I have an emergency response requirement, Galway County Council does not - and Mr. Ó Domhnaill as a retired fireman will attest to this - use chainsaws. They do in Tipperary, Offaly, Wexford and Kildare but there is no chainsaw approval for Galway. Where are we with standardisation? That is the first question. I will let the witnesses think about that before they answer, because it is really important.
We cannot have an emergency and have services that do not have the tools to do their job. If we go along then to the CCMA and it states there is consideration about outsourcing with other various agencies, that is taking away from the role of the retained firemen in the local area who know their community the best.
One question I will let anyone answer is, who has responsibility for the vulnerable customer register? That is the person with responsibility for the disabled. We had some people who could not attend college because their wheelchair could not be powered up. That is disappointing. While you engage with the Department, we have DPOs and the Disability Federation if Ireland that have made huge submissions on how the storm had impact on vulnerable people. Who is responsible and for the sharing of that data?
In the morning, we could have another emergency. This time it might not be wind; it could be snow. Where are we with facilitating our local authorities and our retained firemen, who again are in every community, to be able to be stood up at the local fire station to go out, as opposed to being at home with their bleeper? Retained firemen in Galway are not sent into their fire stations when we have a snow alert but are left at home waiting for the bleeper. They are at risk if they are to travel from home. Where are we with the joined-up thinking and the standardisation?
If we get those nuggets right, we then might have a response, aside from all the good work that is done on the ground. That is my first lot of question.
Mr. Keith Leonard:
I thank the Senator. In terms of delivery of the fire service, we set national standards and policy in the Department but each local authority is independent in how it exercises its functions in relation to the fire service and all services it provides. In some counties we are aware that fire services provide chainsaw facilities but in other counties, that is done by outdoor staff or occasionally it is contracted. That is a decision for the chief executive and the chief fire officer. It would be deeply inappropriate for us to get involved in those types of localised operational decisions.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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The Senator is coming back in anyway. Let us get the answer on the vulnerable customer register.
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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Who can answer that? Mr. O'Reilly is going to answer.
Mr. Coilín O'Reilly:
I will, of course. It is important to understand the structure that operated. There was a humanitarian subgroup of the national emergency co-ordination group that met daily and every local authority had a local co-ordination group that I met daily. I was the link between the humanitarian subgroup and the national group, and I met every local authority daily after that. Among those groups was the HSE, the local disabled persons groups, local community networks, CDPs, An Post, ESB, that is, everybody who was active in the local community. Anybody who was vulnerable at that time was either identified through An Garda Síochána’s vulnerable persons list, or those of the ESB or Uisce Éireann. All together, those lists were used and in some cases members of the Civil Defence went out to check on people.
I note the Senator’s point with regard to people with wheelchairs and things like that. Unfortunately, it was very difficult to provide power on an individual basis. In some cases the HSE did, and sent in specialist care dependent on the care needs of the person. That was assessed on a case-by-case basis by the HSE. On a local basis the co-ordination group would have been the key point of contact because that is where it is best solved.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
The area of vulnerable customers is a very important area. If we could talk about it from the energy sector perspective and then come back to the wider picture about where things should potentially go next, customers in the electricity sector can register through their suppliers as vulnerable. There are two kinds of categories in that, namely, those who are medically dependent on electricity, for example, for dialysis or other equipment and those then of advanced age or different disabilities can also register. There are two groups and approximately 11,000 customers out of 2.5 million are on that register. We can provide more detail of what we did during the storm about how we contacted those customers, because we stood up a new contact centre to be able to ring those customers. The issue in general, and it is a recommendation of the NECG report, is to look overall at vulnerable customers. There may be vulnerable customers in the community who are not registered through their electricity supplier. How that is managed through the different agencies is very important. I echo the comments that have been made about the humanitarian subgroup. It was a very effective means of dealing with vulnerable customers during the storm who were so dependent on that intervention.
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I am going to cut in because I am conscious of my time. The witnesses might not have the figure now but how many people have chosen to go on the register since the storm? It would be interesting to know. I am not saying it falls to the ESB. It is incumbent on everybody to have that education. It would be interesting to know, if Mr. Tarrant could supply it to the Chair.
I have not got my answer in relation to the standardisation, because it is a bug. Remember, I live on the border. Who is responsible if the Shannon floods, because that is where I live? The ESB does wonderful work but if the Shannon floods and the road blocks in a storm, I am between the Hidden Heartlands and the Wild Atlantic Way. Galway is that long. My back is up against the Shannon. I can see that the local authorities are out in Tipperary and Offaly but they are sitting at home in Galway, as in the retained firemen.
Mr. Kieran Kehoe:
Galway County Council was hit particularly badly by Storm Éowyn. Through my direct contacts, as Mr. O'Reilly was doing on the humanitarian side, I was communicating with all the counterparts continually, that is, all the chiefs and the staff on the emergency response side. The response by Galway County Council was phenomenal in relation to the impacts of the storm. As regards standardisation, it is a decision locally. The bulk of local authorities do have chainsaw crews in their fire services. Some do not, but they would generally have them through their operational crews. What we did do through Storm Éowyn - because, as I said everything on one side of that line from Louth to Clare was under pressure - was redeploy chainsaw crews from across the country to where they were requested and needed. On the Senator's issue about operations on borders, etc, every single part of this country is covered in relation to a fire service response. It may be provided by an adjacent town or village or wherever, based on where the most local fire station is to it, but every single place is covered. I have to be very supportive of the fire services in this country and what they do on a daily basis-----
Mr. Kieran Kehoe:
The Senator mentioned mobilisation as well and that it would have been standard practice, particularly in a red event, that the fire crews would have been mobilised to the station for that particular reason. I can bring back that query as to why it did not happen in certain locations.
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge the wonderful work Galway County Council does-----
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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Galway County Council does phenomenal work but I am specifically talking about the retained fire service. That is the point; that is for the future.
Anne Rabbitte (Fianna Fail)
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Hold on, we are talking about a national response.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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One person at a time, please. The issue is noted. The point is made. I call Deputy Stanley.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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I acknowledge the work that was done during Storm Éowyn by front-line staff. A lot of the work overseen in Laois by the director of services and many structures that were put in stood up quite well to the test. However, there are some problems. First, Uisce Éireann will not do anything about the generators for rural group water schemes.
Uisce Éireann has no role with rural group water schemes and it is an issue that local authorities need to deal with. The local authorities need to, particularly big schemes, and Mr. Kehoe will be familiar with The Heath, Ballyroan and Ballypickas schemes. They are all big schemes that supply thousands of households and it is the same in every other county. I want it noted that this is an issue that needs to be dealt with separately because that is the division and the way it works.
To move on, the number of local authority staff has ballooned. My next comment is for Mr. Leonard in the Department. This is an issue that the Department needs to take on board. It grants staff for arts, community and for this, that and the other. There is some fault with what is provided for the local authorities because the requests submitted for resources have ballooned but omit general operatives, GOs, which is a real problem. There were fewer than 50 GOs in Laois during Storm Éowyn and this is a problem because there are not any people to do the preventative maintenance in the first instance. For example, a pallet stuck in a culvert and blocking it is not caught in time, that is, before a storm happens. I am not taking away from the good work being done by the skeleton staff that is there. It is not good having huge municipal areas that just have an overseer who has a handful of workers. Local authorities must get back to what they should be doing.
I say to the county managers' association and to Mr. Leonard, I will say it locally as well, that the Department needs to stop this and get local authorities back to what they should be doing. Requests for staff are being approved and local authorities have armies of staff but they are not deployed where they need to be.
I want to make two further points. First, the housing section of Laois County Council has started using more of its own staff, that is, direct labour. Guess what? They are doing re-lets of houses a lot quicker and a lot cheaper. That is what local authorities need to get back to doing.
Second, the ESB is in the same situation because it no longer has linesmen. I welcome that legislation is coming through and that the ESB is trying to progress it. The response by ESB staff was phenomenal. ESB staff had to work in very difficult terrain. It took them days to cut their way into wooded areas and I give the staff full credit for their work. However, some of the outages were caused by overhanging branches and a couple of decades ago linesmen crews would be deployed to resolve such issues. I do not think the ESB still has linesmen and now they are called technicians. Every linesman crew was comprised of a general operative, a ganger and two linesmen. They had a crew cab which carried chainsaws and all the equipment they could possibly need in the back. Those crews took care of all the small outages that were caused by, say, a bough of a tree coming down. Recently the ESB has started increasing its number of staff which I welcome. I also welcome the expansion of the training centre. I was not able to attend the launch but the best of luck with the training centre in Portlaoise. It is fantastic. Does the ESB intend expanding its number of outdoor staff to perform preventative maintenance works?
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I suggest with take the delegations in order and the CCMA is first. Is there an issue with the supply of general operatives? Is it a factor in terms of storm response?
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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I want to know about getting approval for other staff.
Mr. Kieran Kehoe:
Let me answer. We are going through our workforce planning process. Every year we do the budget. That is assigned and difficult decisions have to be made. We would love to have more staff. In the next two years, with the full transition to Irish Water or Uisce Éireann and the staff that will move, like most authorities we will end up with a lot of staff being retained, which will add to our staff numbers. All I know, from our own example in Meath, is that we have quite substantially increased the GO workforce over the past couple of years. I am sure other authorities are in the same process. It is a local resource issue based on the size and scale of their own authorities.
On Uisce Éireann and the group water schemes, it was an issue I was very acutely aware of during the whole process. I have to admit at the start that, yes, Uisce Éireann's focus was on the public water supplies. I must compliment it that once it had the bulk of its own public supply sorted, it recognised that the group water schemes did not have the capacity and capability to sort themselves out. As the Deputy said, Uisce Éireann did step in for some very substantial schemes and now it has acknowledged that role of support for group water schemes. We acknowledge that. Mr. O'Reilly may have something to add about the GOs.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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I understand that. I am not saying that it is necessary to retain a big army of GOs for 52 weeks of the year and have them ready to go. I am saying that because there are not enough GOs to carry out small preventative maintenance, you wind up with a larger problem when there is a storm and I have given some examples. I have seen them.
Mr. Coilín O'Reilly:
I can only speak for the counties in which I have worked. I would not say that necessarily. There are always more jobs than we can do. That is the nature of what we do. Deputies and councillors constantly ring us and we get to what we can, when we can. That is a reality. At the moment I believe we have enough GOs. As Mr. Kehoe said, we are going to transfer them back from Irish Water and that will increase the complement. We also have to be careful not to carry people that you do not necessarily need all the time.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Next is the ESB.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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Will the ESB increase the number of general operatives and linesmen?
Mr. Brian Brady:
Yes. We have increased the number of our apprenticeship intake into our training centre in Portlaoise from 60 last year to 156 this year, which is over double the number. That initiative is part of a continued programme to build our own internal resource capacity. In addition, in the timber space which the Deputy mentioned specifically, we have done significant work in growing our timber cutting capacity. This year, we have increased our timber cutting capacity by just under 30%. We continue to grow that further and we are doing that with great help from the ETBs. In particular, with the Galway and Roscommon Education and Training Board, GRETB, we have developed a two-year apprenticeship programme for timber cutting that provides indigenous employment locally.
Brian Stanley (Laois, Independent)
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The Department did not answer.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I will bring the Deputy back in on that and he is more than two minutes over time. I call Senator Noonan.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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Again, thanks to all agencies for their incredible response to what was a devastating storm.
My first question is for the CCMA. In the CCMA statement and in the reporting there was a welcoming of funding being met to meet the requirements of meeting the damage caused by the storm. Is there a case to be made for a strategic rolling fund to be put in place, given that all the predictions are that there will be increased frequency of storm events? As Mr. Kehoe said earlier, it is not the big storm events like Storm Éowyn but smaller storm events, flooding events or snow events that undermine road infrastructure. Is there a case for a central pot of funding to be made available to local authorities, which can be topped up on an annual basis by the Government and availed of on a needs basis?
Mr. Kieran Kehoe:
Yes, of course. I totally agree with that. To be fair, like in the past, we go out, we prepare, we respond and then repair any damage. All of that is done on a trust that we incur the costs, and we meet it because it is beyond the normal operation and financial capacity of the local authorities involved. To date, that has been met. It is just this is probably one of the first instances that I am aware of in 25 years that the roads damage has not been. As I said, in the Beara Peninsula the rain ahead of Storm Éowyn washed away roads completely and we still await funding. Similarly, with the snow event there was severe damage caused to roads in north Kerry, Limerick, Tipperary and Cork. In that region where it happened, they are similarly badly affected. The other costs have been met - resource costs, and damage to our own housing stock - and we welcome that.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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I agree. The other picture is anticipation of this and building in resilience into our planning system. Mr. O'Reilly knows it well in Carlow with the use of nature-based solutions in urban centres to address flooding. I know that there is some very good national work under way in relation to that and also in relation to urban tree cover. We are talking about extremes of heat, and extremes of rainfall dumping events and even in summer months. We must have general preparedness because we are now in an era of extreme weather events.
Mr. Coilín O'Reilly:
Yes. As the Senator knows well, our nature-based solutions in Carlow have gone down very well. I will speak at a local authority water programme event in the morning for all local authorities and will yet again promote nature-based solutions to try to get some soil back where there is an awful lot of tarmac and hardcore, which is always welcome.
The other point is well made. I am the local authority representative on the independent advisory group on nature restoration law. We will see in the coming years a real increase in the tree canopy across the country and the need for that. This will help to mitigate that rainfall, take that away from the storm water system, and put it into more traditional systems.
Malcolm Noonan (Green Party)
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I have a question for the ESB and the local authorities. The maintenance of the roadside trees is an ongoing issue. This is probably going back to the point Deputy Stanley made. It is just an ongoing issue. It is a responsibility of landowners but also local authorities to ensure the ongoing maintenance of trees on roadside verges where a pruning or reduction in the number of trees can actually improve their resilience. I notice, however, that as a knee jerk to Storm Éowyn there has been a butchering in many parts of the country where trees are just being taken out wantonly and even ash trees, notwithstanding ash dieback. Some parts of the UK are looking at leaving some standing ash trees because some are developing a resilience. That is one issue.
Separately, from the ESB's perspective and the maintenance of urban trees, I have often seen cases where trees have been cut in half to prevent damage to ESB infrastructure. Sometimes that in itself has a destabilising impact on those urban trees as well. Perhaps we can have just a general comment on the maintenance of trees generally.
Mr. Kieran Kehoe:
As the Senator said, the responsibility for hedges typically lays with the landowner. Maybe on estates that we have taken in charge, it is an issue. Most local authorities have a horticulturist, going back to Deputy Stanley's point, or other people that we engage. We have landscape gardeners and horticulturists who have a bit more expertise and knowledge for the proper maintenance and care of trees. That is standard and it filters down through how we care for those trees on estates in our own care. I will hand over to the ESB in relation to the lines themselves, but generally that is our response.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
To build on what Mr. Brady said in his answer to Deputy Stanley on our resources, we have grown our resources quite a bit when it comes to dedicated timber cutting specialist contractors. They are specialist contractors. We are looking to expand those. We went out for a new tender in 2024 to expand our contractor base in that area because we know we need to continue to grow the resource in that area. We have availed of this new apprenticeship programme and we are building to grow this. We are also looking at bringing people in from overseas to help buttress this resource. We have targeted measures for this winter and we have brought in additional resources.
On the specifics of urban trees, I do not know if I am able to comment or perhaps Mr. Brady can on destabilising the trees. It would be unusual in general for someone to take branches out of a tree and destabilise it. They have training. If there is something specific we are happy to follow up separately to the meeting.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I thank our witnesses and, like others, I thank them for the work of the crews on the ground during this very difficult period. I was very conscious that Mr. Tarrant talked about this being the largest and most impactful storm. Part of what we do is we learn from what is happening. Every organisation now has a risk register. We have seen a lot of these adverse weather events. Perhaps the Department will speak to the likelihood of other similar types of events, based on its forecasts, and what level of risk the Department attributes to this happening in the immediate future. How likely is it that will this happen within the next five years?
Mr. Keith Leonard:
On a national level the Office of Emergency Planning has a risk register for all emergency events. To my recollection, storms are classified as likely and severe, so it is probably up near the top of all risks. Met Éireann would give a much more detailed and scientific response but from a general sense, Mr. Rock and I try to calibrate ourselves at the beginning of every winter season. We expect to see between six and 12 mid-level storms in any given season now. We have seen Storm Darragh and Storm Éowyn. We saw with Storm Elisa that activity in that area was kicking up storms up into the north Atlantic. I think this is going to be coming-----
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I am working on the basis that those figures of the local authorities and the ESB Networks risk registers are aligned pretty much with that. On the costs and the preparation for the costs, ESB estimated the Storm Éowyn costs repairs in excess of €100 million. Do the witnesses have a current figure as to what they estimate roughly for that, and per year for the costs of adverse weather events?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
We published our interim results for ESB overall, which included the total storm costs. That included costs for ESB Networks, and Northern Ireland Electricity Networks as well. That total cost was in the region of €140 million between both organisations, €40 million of which is capitalised costs. This means reinvesting in the networks, putting in new poles and new equipment that will last 40-plus years. The operating cost impact was in or around €100 million.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Leaving aside the need to invest in the grid long term, for the contingency planning that Mr. Tarrant is talking about, does the ESB need to set aside that amount annually, in that order of that magnitude, to deal with adverse weather events?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
I do not think it would be at that level because that was an extreme event. We cannot rule it out, obviously, for the future but this was an extreme event if we look back over time. There is a budget allowance approved by our regulator every year to include a certain amount for things like storm events. If there is an exceptional event then it is something that we have to deal with on a specific case by case-----
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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What is that allowance approximately?
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps when he gets a chance Mr. Tarrant will supply that to the committee.
This is high on every local authority's risk register but when local authorities are about to prepare their budgets to what extent do the witnesses believe there is money set aside to deal with adverse weather events?
Mr. Kieran Kehoe:
Because of the constraints in the budgetary process we ensure we have enough to cover the staff costs, whether that be our retained service providers or our own general operatives, as mentioned previously, but we do not plan and have this contingency because we do not have the luxury to do so.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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This is something to raise with the Department in order for local authorities to be prepared.
I want to move to one other issue that has not been touched on. I represent the Wicklow-Wexford constituency. Coastal erosion is a very significant problem. With Storm Éowyn the University of Galway estimated that the power of the surge was up to 2.5 m above the normal predicted total water level. I am sure that Mr. Ó Domhnaill can talk about the impact on coastal communities. The Rosslare rail line is a poor enough service as it is at the moment but if we are dealing with tidal surges, it may disappear. We have seen really serious problems with coastal erosion in places such as Brittas Bay, Courtown, and Kilpatrick on the Wicklow-Wexford border. Perhaps this is more an issue for the Department than for local authorities, and Mr. Ó Domhnaill wants to comment on it. What is the level of preparedness we have if we continue to have these adverse weather events?
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Did Mr. Ó Domhnaill hear that? In terms of impact was there an actual defined impact on the coastal side for Storm Éowyn in his neck of the woods?
Mr. Seán Ó Domhnaill:
In all fairness when Storm Éowyn hit us the hardest on the west coast, where we are based, it was actually at low tide so that is what saved us really on this side. There was a lot of damage done prior to that with the storm that hit us just before Christmas. Talking about coastal damage I am not an expert so I will not put my finger into that one. The damage that was done that time really was mostly wind as there was a low tide when it hit us that time. Galway city would have seen that as well. We were expecting worse than what actually came so we were lucky enough regarding the coastal side. The damage that was done on land itself, which was kind of unseen before, was the wind, the trees and, as we know, damage to houses that were lost and roofs and so forth. To answer the question about the coastal impact, we were not as badly hit due to it being at low tide. That is what saved us.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Obviously there is a concern and maybe the Department of housing might just refer to coastal resilience because it is of critical importance.
Mr. Keith Leonard:
Yes, I agree. Maybe to some extent a positive piece, but somewhat under-reported, is the amount of investment that the Office of Public Works has put into permanent flood defences on rivers at risk, and the work it has done on coastal erosion.
That structural piece is key for mitigation into the future. I agree with the Deputy. He raised an important point. It is not just the wind effective storms, flooding, coastal erosion and those things are things we deal with on a fairly regular basis. It is a significant impact.
Malcolm Byrne (Wicklow-Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate some of the river defences. If Mr. Leonard wants to visit some of the coastal elements of Wicklow and Wexford, they will see they are not getting the necessary support that they deserve.
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses for coming in. I will start by acknowledging all the work that was done by ESB staff, local authorities and volunteers. The Comhchathaoirleach mentioned all the ESB staff who went up from Kerry to the midlands and Longford to help repair the damage there. In Kerry, for example, in a period of eight weeks, in the week before the election there was severe flooding, particularly in the Listowel area following heavy rain and snow melt upriver. At the beginning of January of this year, there was the snow impact in the Brosna-Knocknagashel-Crompán area. A couple of weeks after that there was Storm Éowyn. There is an overall picture of severe weather alerts. If the month of October is anything to go by, where we had the heaviest rain in the country in years, this is going to be happening into the future.
The OPW was mentioned. I want to get back to the point about the statutory regulation of forestry corridors. When is that likely to happen? Apart from the biodiversity devastation that has happened, people in the Knocknagashel-Brosna area say that the Rivers Smearlagh and Awbeg have been severely impacted, with no salmon or brown trout in those areas. It has not been mentioned in the OPW report on the flooding report in Listowel, but there is also the impact of vertical drainage and huge volumes of rainwater coming into the tributaries, going down into the River Feale and out and causing the flooding in Listowel, in my view and according to the people in the area. That is not being addressed in the responses or the flood review to what happened in Listowel. Is communication happening between the OPW, the Department and the forestry sector to try and address this into the future? Is the ESB taking that into account when dealing with the regulation of the forestry condition?
Mr. Keith Leonard:
I will take that. The OPW has a structure in place, an interdepartmental group which includes a wide range of people, including ourselves, in relation to the flood mitigation piece, the structural piece and the non-structural piece. It certainly does consider all those aspects. I cannot give the Deputy a detailed view on that. Our kind of core role in the national directorate is just co-ordinating the response itself. We are not deeply involved in the mitigation or those environmental measures.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
Legislation is on the way. We cannot give a time or a date today. I know it has been mentioned at the meeting that it is coming in the next number of months. If we look at this issue in two aspects, one is about future forestry that is planted. The idea of keeping a section, strip or corridor of that forestry as it might potentially impact overhead lines and keeping it free of trees is only a part of the plantation. Its impact from the point of view of downstream flood risk, without being an expert on it, it would be a smaller part of any new forestry, but we are not-----
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Is that there at the moment? Is it being considered or implemented?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
That is part of what would be included from our recommendation perspective on the legislation. It would keep corridors free for electricity overhead lines for new forestry and where there is existing forestry with overhead lines. If trees are being cut in a forest for forestry corridors, it is subject to licences. Mr. Brady might say more about that and the assessments. It is a complex area. There are assessments to be done around cutting.
Mr. Brian Brady:
The Deputy has brought up a valid point that what we are after is a way that electricity lines and forestry can coexist. There was huge devastation to the forestry industry in Storm Éowyn. A total of €500 million of stock or value was lost, with 24,000-odd ha damaged. I think I have seen a more recent number that is higher than that. Climate change is affecting every industry, not just electricity. This is about how we design resilient forests and resilient corridors that allow us to coexist. Forestry is critically important for carbon capture and so on and it is part of our plan as well. In what we are looking to design, our input into the legislation that is being designed would be to accommodate all of those-----
Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I only have to stand at Kilmorna, or at the metal bridge near the Westering Inn to see that, 30 years ago, the bogs would soak up the rainwater and leave it down over a period of ten days. Now it is draining and rushing down and surges of water are coming down, gouging away the sides of the river. The flooding in Listowel happened in Listowel town at one particular time. Twenty minutes later, it happened down at Kilmorna. A surge of water came down. I would be afraid, given what it is in the draft OPW report into the flooding in Listowel, which is completely silent on the impact of forestry and rainwater surges upstream, that this will not be taken seriously enough to be included. It is all very well to deal with the forestry falling, but without factoring in all the forestry, including biodiversity, the impact will not be as strong as it possibly could have been.
Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I welcome the witnesses. I thank them very much. I know they are all busy in their own areas. Storm Éowyn, as has been said by Deputy Daly, created a lot of trouble in Kerry. We have high areas that were affected by the snow. People could not get up there at all in places like Cordal and Glencar and places were without electricity for maybe a week to ten days, which is too long. We know the Government's policy about these new electric heating systems. Four new houses were in one field together. They did not have water, electricity or anything and no one could get up to them. There were more houses separately around the place, but this was one particular example of a family with four new houses. They say the road was too dangerous for the engineer to let anyone up to take the snow off it or to spread grit on it. It was too high for that. Can the witnesses see that happening again in places like Brosna, Knocknagashel, Gneeveguilla and different high places that always get hit with snow and the electricity seems to go out? Is that going to continue or will things improve?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
The first thing to say is that we have a big investment programme coming over the next five years overall. The investment in the electricity network, not only for resilience but also for increasing capacity for things like houses, new business connections and for renewable connections, is going to more than double over the next five years, subject to regulatory approval. There is a big resilience programme as part of that programme on a nationwide basis.
In the north Kerry, south Limerick and north Cork area, where the Deputy is referring to, which was badly impacted by the snow and ice, we have put in a significant investment in as well. In the region of €2 million in investment has gone into that area in recent times. I am not sure if Mr. Brady wants to say a little bit more, but we are working on it. I have one last comment before I pass over to him to say a little bit more on this. We have an overhead line network, 160,000 km of it, and it is at the vagaries of the weather. We do maintain it and do work on it, but there are risks-----
Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I need to interrupt Mr. Tarrant because the clock is winding down. Can the witnesses eliminate trees falling on wires now? There should be no tree within falling distance of a wire or a road. I would like to hear the county manager's opinion on that. We read ads in the paper of lives being lost because of drink-driving, but lives have been lost by trees falling out on roads. When someone is dead, it is immaterial what happened to them or how they died.
However, people are being killed on our roads. Do the witnesses think that all trees within falling distance of a road or wire should be eliminated?
Mr. Brian Brady:
As part of the emergency winter programme we started just after the storm, we have recruited and procured additional emergency timber cutters. As part of that programme, they are doing diseased and damaged fallen trees within range of the lines. We have identified the network most affected by recent storms and those are the areas the cutters are working in. At the moment, they have identified approximately 2,000 trees. We expect the number in the area of the lines to be approximately 3,000. However, we are only cutting those with the agreement of the local communities and the local landowners.
Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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What are the county managers-----
Mr. Kieran Kehoe:
As I said earlier, the responsibility for the maintenance of hedgerows and trees is the landowner's. We do not have the capacity or the resources to do that. The ESB mentioned the lines. I will use the opportunity to address an issue that was asked about and come back to something I did not answer for one of the Senators, that being, outsourcing. What I mean by that is exactly what the Deputy mentioned. We engage with the agricultural contractors association because they have large machines with the capability to address and open up roads. We do not have that standard of machinery. We do not have to, because these people have. We have now got relations with them. We deploy them in those areas of north Kerry, Limerick, Cork and Tipperary. I contacted the national representatives and went to the local representatives to get the machinery. They have them, they are trained, and they are skilled in their use. We have those arrangements. It is similar with the forestry contractors for large-scale tree removal. That is the outsourcing we have talked about. It is nothing to do with our own-----
Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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With the Comhchathaoirleach's forbearance, I should have said at the outset that we wanted to thank the ESB and the local authorities in Kerry and so on. I also thank the volunteers who went out that way. We would have been lost only for everyone pulling together and working together. Would it be reasonable to ask that there should be no tree within falling distance of a road or a wire? That is the case in other countries, is it not? Would it be reasonable to ask that question?
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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A brief answer, please.
Mr. Brian Brady:
I will answer part of that. That would be lovely if we could achieve it. However, we are at full employment in the timber cutting capacity we have today, and that is almost in its entirety to provide safety clearance of the lines. To cut all diseased and damaged trees within falling distance of all electricity lines will take a ferocious amount of cutters and cost to do. I say that in the context of, and to balance what I am saying about, the emergency programme we have running at the moment in the worst affected areas after the storm. In the context of other utilities, for example in the UK, it is a statutory obligation to clear the lines for safety clearance similar to what we do. However, it is not for resilience clearance of falling distance trees. That is not obligatory.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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The CCMA may speak briefly.
Mr. Kieran Kehoe:
Part of the beauty of this country is the trees growing along the roadside. I do not think it would be feasible for us to consider removing every tree that could potentially fall on a road. The bulk of those trees are in great condition. It is part of what is beautiful about Ireland as a country. From the point of view of climate change and nature, we have to protect them as much as possible.
Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I suppose I am interrupting, but-----
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry, Deputy. There are other speakers.
Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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-----I do not agree with Mr. Kehoe-----
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis na finnéithe as ucht a bheith anseo inniu. Taking from inspiration from an tUachtarán, Catherine Connolly, tá mé ag iarraidh níos mó Gaeilge a úsáid gach lá. Tá sé tábhachtach go mbeimid go léir ag déanamh níos mó chun í a labhairt. Obviously for our Gaeltacht communities, it is not an extra or something we can just do as a choice. My family came from a Gaeltacht area. Although my aunt lived in Dublin all her life, she had to do anything numerical in her brain through Gaeilge. I understand that in an emergency it is absolutely important that information is disseminated as quickly as possible. However, there are people in Gaeltacht areas who speak Irish.
My question is for Mr. Ó Domhnaill. What kind of important information do they receive from the State as Gaeilge? How did they find that during the emergency of Storm Éowyn, and in the context of setting up and making sure vulnerable citizens did not get left behind when the storm hit?
There is also the question of interagency co-ordination. How can the different bodies make sure climate justice is part of the preparedness? For people with disabilities, I know we had a journalist who was without power for three or four weeks. She could not use her electrical wheelchair. We have to focus on the social inequalities that Storm Éowyn made obvious. A lot of rural TDs are talking about trees. I remember from when I was a local authority councillor the need to get dead trees removed from lines and get them out of danger. We cannot throw the baby out with the bath water and get rid of all trees. That would be like trying to effect climate change.
It was mentioned that the responses from individual landowners were positive and agreements were taking time. What does this look like and what needs to be agreed for the ESB to be satisfied that critical forest corridors are being created? How far away are we from that?
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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There are a couple of questions. The first is for Mr. Ó Domhnaill on information flow during the storm as Gaeilge agus as Béarla through the State.
Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)
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That is for Irish speakers, particularly for older people who only speak Irish.
Mr. Seán Ó Domhnaill:
We were lucky enough that, based in a Gaeltacht area, all we do here is through Irish. There is the county council and the fire service. I am here with two hats. We had a problem where all TETRA radios were down, so we were blind and deaf for approximately 24 hours during the worst time of the storm. There was no communication between any of the services at that time. Any call that came in from 999 or 112 could not get to us due to that. I know that has been seen and corrected. Due to where we are based, we must be grateful to the county council, the Department and Údarás na Gaeltachta. The service we can give to our community is that we ensure accessibility for people with disabilities. We pushed hard for that. The community, from wherever they were, were able to come to this community building and do all charging and had all the facilities they needed. They were treated and acted like anyone at the time with regard to whatever service they needed. This was a time when community and State services came together. We had people who could bring people with disabilities and who were in need. They were able to go and to be brought to our services here or brought to there. Being with the fire service, we knew the vulnerable people. We have lists of people like that. Again, it is important for us that we meet these people and are able to communicate with them through Irish. I know that documentation and all of that stuff was available in Irish at the time. Anything regarding the aftermath of the storm was available through our local TD. I know John Connolly was available here. All documentation was in Irish, if needed. When we come to times of disaster and you are in need of help, any language is needed, whether English or Irish. Thank God, we saw that during the day. It was really afterwards that we saw the casualties mounting up against us due to the after effects and people trying to correct storm damage.
I am on both sides of the table through my colleagues in the committee room who are answering questions about the ESB and those who we worked well with. We are at a stage with the community buildings here where we have not been brought to the next level, so if another storm hits us tomorrow, we will not be prepared. When it comes to Government funding, the buildings are ready now and we are looking for generators on hire purchase, HP. The buildings are set up in areas of between 1,000 and 10,000 people. They are ready to turn the key today and do not want to be waiting for HP. When a storm hits again, I do not think there will be enough generators in at that time.
I answered a couple of questions there. Bhí muid réidh leis an teanga. Bhí sé go maith idir na comhlachtaí uilig, idir na comhairlí contae, na Rannóga Stáit, an córas leictreachais é féin agus na seirbhísí eile.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Will the Department comment on the quality of interagency co-operation?
Mr. Keith Leonard:
Obviously, a key objective from the national emergency co-ordination group is interagency co-operation and that An Garda Síochána, the HSE and the local authorities plan and prepare through regional steering and working groups under the major emergency management, MEM, arrangements to plan and prepare for response to all types of emergencies including severe weather, and those relationships will be built up strongly.
Likewise, our Civil Defence and our Defence Forces are deeply integrated into those structures. One of the lessons we may have from Storm Éowyn is bringing a wider group into that space, particularly our community welfare officers, our critical infrastructure and essential services providers, and some of our voluntary emergency services. That is a piece we are going to take forward through our next iteration of the local co-ordination guidance.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Okay. Then finally, the ESB.
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
On forestry corridors and the need for them, what we are looking for in the legislation is the ability to be able to go in and cut these corridors in a way that will provide resilience for the electricity network. There are other technical options for the network we are also exploring in parallel. Regarding the work we are doing currently around the stuff for the winter plan in advance of and during this winter, I will pass to Mr. Brady to talk about the success we have had in engaging with landowners around cutting at the moment.
Mr. Brian Brady:
As I mentioned earlier, we have identified in the worst affected areas the priority corridors which we want to cut. There is approximately 44 km of it. Three-quarters of that is private land and one-quarter is in Coillte lands. It is probably worth saying at this stage that they are priority corridors because there is no corridor there at all. The trees are growing up through it. The key thing we are seeking in this space is support from the landowners and the forestry owners to allow us to cut this for the reason we are cutting it, and we are providing compensation in doing so. By and large, the reception has been positive. We have secured agreement with a large number of them. The refusal rate is between 2% and 5% but there about 85% who are undecided so far among those we have contacted.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I thank the Comhchathaoirleach for allowing me in. I agree with Seán Ó Domhnaill that we are not ready. If we call a spade a spade, the only thing we have is one report out and a few meetings. I will ask the Departments of housing and the environment one question. Why have they not liaised with the Department of agriculture? There are 2,640 ha of trees sown since that storm. Some of them are under wires or within 5 m and 10 m of them. Why have the Departments not made sure that there is a change in the regulation to that?
Regarding the ESB, I put it to the witnesses that we have really suffered in Roscommon and east Galway. Senator Scahill, too, is based in that area. Temporary jobs have been done. The ESB has gone down the road of Irish Water. This is the problem with the ESB. It has gone down the road of having three or four suppliers around the country that will cut its trees and do its work. It does not want ten or 20 in each county. The ESB should go back to that. Each area should be put out where contractors can be got rapidly. We offered diggers to the ESB. The electricity was gone for 16 days. Diggers were offered, with insurance and everything, because locals in our areas were desperate, but no, the ESB had to have people who have done this course, that course and the other course. I agree with courses but why were they not done all summer? It is now ten months later and we are coming into a season again where in my area and Senator Scahill's area we have been without electricity twice since, with two more storms. We throw our hands up in the air. The ESB needs to change its attitude.
In the line of councils, I heard Mr. Kehoe referring to this. On the report it says that roadside trees need to be brought down under the level of wires. We also know about forestry. Some 85% to 90% of our problems are in that. What price does Mr. Kehoe put on a life? He said he did not believe roadside trees could be cut. They could be healthy or whatever. What price would he put on a life? I believe, and the Department should get involved in this, that we should sow two trees for every tree we cut to ensure we have every box ticked but to make sure people's lives are more important than having a roadside tree and talking about our greenery or whatever.
Regarding councils, one thing needs to be admitted here. All the staff in the councils were kept in because of health and safety. The storm was well gone. It was local communities who got loadalls and teleporters out. I did it myself with a digger because every road was blocked. That happened because it was the following day, 5 o'clock and 6 o'clock in the evening, before council staff were let out. It is fine to use the health and safety thing but there were lorry drivers moving food around this country who could not get from A to B and it was local communities that helped. I ask the Department of the environment to liaise with the councils to have a back-up team in each district or area of community people, because that is what did it. Let us call a spade a spade. That is what got people rolling in rural areas. Why would they not put a team together that the council could ring and ask to go out there and put a bit of co-ordination into it, rather than people claiming everything and delivering nothing?
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I will go to the Department first on the agriculture side regulations. We will start with that.
Mr. Keith Leonard:
It is important to say that I cannot speak in detail to policy around the planting of trees; that is for the Department of agriculture. What I can say is that the Department of agriculture fully participated. We had detailed discussions with its officials throughout the review and it is a piece it is looking at-----
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Storms have landed again.
Mr. Keith Leonard:
As I say, if it would be useful to bring officials from the Department of agriculture in, they could probably give a much more detailed account of the policy and the implementation they are doing there.
I will hand over to Mr. Kehoe again but he did make a point about communities and particularly with the agricultural contractors, which was a huge enabling piece during the response, both to the severe cold weather and in the storms. It is a very positive piece to take forward.
Mr. Kieran Kehoe:
First, regarding the trees, I did not in any way question the value of a life in relation to a tree. I did not do so and I would rather that it would not be assumed as such. What I did say is that we have a phenomenal number of healthy trees in our country and if a tree is healthy and not at risk of falling it should not be taken out just because of its proximity to a road. In that case, there is no risk to life from that tree. Regarding the response, I have to clarify something and correct the Deputy. As the person in charge of arranging the response both nationally and locally for the local authorities, from the Monday that we were advised when this was happening, as I explained in my opening statement, we had crews waiting for the red warning to go. Every local authority's crews mobilised within one hour of that red warning moving away.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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It was 5 o'clock in the evening.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Sorry, will the Deputy wait a minute, please?
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I know the areas.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I am talking about Galway.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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It was 5 o'clock in the evening when they were let out.
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Between 11 o'clock and 12 o'clock.
Mr. Kieran Kehoe:
It was not. I am very sure of the facts. Once the red warning goes, every local authority mobilises, and we did mobilise. Within 24 hours, the bulk of the roads in this country were clear. The only ones that were not clear were the very local roads and the access up into the forestry, and we worked in support of the ESB in getting access to those. Regarding bringing in contractors, before the Deputy came in I mentioned that I personally rang the Association of Farm Contractors in Ireland to mobilise, exactly as the Deputy has said, people with that machinery, those skill sets and that training, to work. I acknowledge the huge work done by the communities all across the country. The country is dependent on it and will always be dependent on it. That is what meitheal is; that is what community is. We support that fully in the local authorities and will always do so.
Mr. Coilín O'Reilly:
Just to add to that, I was at a training event yesterday for local authority staff in Portlaoise. There were 140 local authority staff members, Civil Defence officers and fire officers, all preparing for severe weather assessment teams and for flooding for the season ahead. We are working on this. We work on this constantly. We are preparing for this constantly. Our staff are ready for it. It is unfair to say that there is nothing more than the report. As Mr. Kehoe said, the Monday before, we meet daily. We engage with staff, we communicate-----
Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Mr. O'Reilly should listen to Seán Ó Domhnaill.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Will Deputy Fitzmaurice please let the speaker finish?
Mr. Nicholas Tarrant:
I acknowledge that areas in Deputy Fitzmaurice's constituency and nearby were some of the worst affected. As he says, with forestry in the area in particular, there have been a number of power outages in those areas. Going back to the winter plan and our overall plan around resilience and the need for a statutory basis for forestry corridors, it is with those local communities in mind that we are making those recommendations.
On the Deputy's point about our resources, at the peak of the storm restoration effort, and it was concentrated in the north west, we had about 3,000 people deployed. We had 60 contracting organisations. We had 650 specialist people in from other jurisdictions to help us. These are maybe not the types of resources that the Deputy is talking about with diggers, but in general. It is important to recognise the response to be able to get that type of resource in such a short of period of time to help support our own people and that contractor base. A total of 60 contracting organisations supported us during the storm.
On the Deputy's overall point about local contractors versus national, ESB Networks over time has moved in general more towards the bigger contractors for some of the reasons that the Deputy talked about around the safety requirements, changes in legislation and training. We deploy those contractors to support us during the storm. I cannot particularly comment on specific local cases relating to offers of support but we tried to do everything we could to deploy as many resources as possible to get customers back as quickly as we could.
John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Ní thógfaidh mé mórán ama. Tá mise ag iarraidh labhairt maidir leis na seirbhísí éigeandála a luaigh muid roimhe seo agus a labhair Seán Ó Domhnaill faoi. We could underestimate how important the humanitarian hubs were in the aftermath of Storm Éowyn. When people were without power for two to three weeks and had no ability to cook a meal, have a hot drink or have a hot shower, particularly in the west of Ireland where it was very badly hit, we relied on these hubs without any preparatory work or any prior engagement. Dúirt Cóilín O’Reilly níos luaithe go mbeadh 400 of these community hubs but we need to know specifically where they are and how well they are resourced and ready.
Mr. Ó Domhnaill did acknowledge the local authority made contact after the storm but, in terms of preparatory work, I am not sure there has been the level of engagement there should be from the local authority. That might fall to the local authority, but we need to know where they are and how prepared they are. I am familiar with the one that Mr. Ó Domhnaill referenced and there was another one in Carna, Connemara. However, there were large areas of Connemara with no humanitarian hub. We need to make sure that does not happen next time, and that they are prepared and ready.
On the role of the Defence Forces in coming to the aid of civil authorities, there still a grey area in that regard. Deputy Fitzmaurice mentioned the immediate response. Perhaps the Defence Forces could be called on to participate in that immediate response where roads are blocked and we are concerned about people who will fail to access the humanitarian hub or get around. What work is done on that area?
A connected matter relates to the Civil Defence. It is the remit and role of local authorities to prepare the Civil Defence but there is great variation across the country in the numbers involved in the Civil Defence and the roles they carry out. How will they be used in the future?
Mr. Coilín O'Reilly:
As I said at the beginning, community response centres were not a concept. We had never been in the situation where we were 20-odd days without power in parts of the country. It had grown organically. I accept that there were some community groups that had stepped up late on the Saturday. By the Sunday, we had approximately 15 of them throughout the country. Co-ordinated through local authorities, we had 400 by later in the week. It is a new concept. As the Deputy can see from the document, we have only finalised and agreed it. We are finalising the generators. Within two weeks, we are going to have a full list of where those centres are nationally and where they will stand up. Mr. Ó Domhnaill has a very good relationship with Galway County Council and probably engages with the community development staff or whatever staff there are on the ground. Those are our networks. Those are the people we use, whether it is our heritage or the staff that Deputy Stanley talked about earlier. A lot of them multitask. When they are out, they are out preparing and meeting community groups. We are not where we would like to be, but in a short period of time we will have a clear list of those buildings. The next thing that will happen is that we will begin wiring those buildings to accept generators in advance of any storm.
John Connolly (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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That will be done in the next two weeks.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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It would be useful to submit that to the committee. It can be a brief supporting summary.
Mr. Coilín O'Reilly:
I will address the question on the Civil Defence. Mr. Leonard will come in on the Army. The Civil Defence is a voluntary organisation. It is people of all ages and abilities and the numbers vary from local authority to local authority area. It is hard to get uniformity when there are local authorities where Civil Defence is strong and has been for a long time but there are other local authorities where it is not as strong and does not have the skill sets that some of the people have. It does vary and we accept that. However, we use the Civil Defence. Its four-by-four vehicles in particular are very helpful in times of snow and emergency for bringing people to dialysis and all that sort of thing and accessing communities in hard-to-reach upland areas.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Thank you. Will the Department comment on the Army?
Mr. Keith Leonard:
I will quickly comment on the Civil Defence. The Civil Defence has been a huge enabler in many of the responses we have been involved in, particularly the transport in snow and ice conditions, but also the humanitarian piece. We are strongly supportive of the Civil Defence.
In relation to the Army, one of the key benefits of activating a national emergency co-ordination group is that there are not a huge number of resources always available in the Defence Forces but we are able to prioritise those to the places most in need. From a very early stage, the Defence Forces were fully committed to supporting the response in any way that they could. One of the first actions they took was to support the ESB Networks, with the Air Corps flying over where the damage was. That was a huge piece in getting us up and running quickly. The other piece that they did for us, which was a huge piece, was heavy transport of generators. I recall Mr. Rock was on the phone. There must have been 40 phone calls one morning about getting generators out. They did a huge amount of work in that space. We work very closely and we mediate the requests through the local authorities. We prioritise them at the national emergency co-ordination group, agree them and then the Defence Forces are deployed on that basis.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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We have the final two speakers. They have 60 seconds each.
Naoise Ó Cearúil (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I will be direct and to the point. For the ESB, given that 59% of faults were tree-related, what contingency plans exist if forestry clearance consent continues to lag? For the CCMA, what steps are being taken to integrate telecoms providers into emergency planning frameworks? Third, what gaps did Mr. Ó Domhnaill observe in communications between local community groups, ar nós an ghrúpa atá aige, and the national co-ordination structures?
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I ask the witnesses to be brief.
Mr. Seán Ó Domhnaill:
Due to communications being down and there being no Wi-Fi or phone signal, it went back to the old style. One of the staff of the Department with responsibility for the Gaeltacht came to my house locally. That was the communication for first 48 hours until we got back online again. TETRA phones were down for the first 24 hours, which is the main contact regarding An Garda Síochána and the fire service. That was a worrying thing at the time.
Mr. Kieran Kehoe:
One of the big learnings that the Deputy would have heard from my statement is around our telecoms infrastructure and the importance of rural broadband now in relation to the country. We have engaged heavily with the Department of communications over the past while with representatives from ourselves and the Department of agriculture regarding their response times. Having fibre broadband is critical for rural areas, whether for communication systems to ensure the health of a person in a household or for businesses operating locally. We have engagement there. They are now becoming part of our overall co-ordination groups in relation to-----
William Aird (Laois, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Comhchathaoirleach for letting me in. I am not on this committee but I came in because of the importance of Storm Éowyn and ensuring we all learn from things. Everything else has been covered, but I wish to comment on two things. I have been a member of councils all my life. Laois County Council pushed out every single solid button it could in order to help the Order of Malta and the Civil Defence, and I want to stand over that. I thank those people for what they did.
I do not know whether this was spoken about here today, but we need to speak about the flooding that resulted from Storm Éowyn. Flooding is something that we need to work on. Late last night I went to look at a river that was overflowing onto a road in my own area. What happens is that the local authorities get the blame for this but it is nothing to do with them. They are not allowed to do it. When I first started in Laois County Council, I saw the dredging that was able to take place. We went in and spoke to the engineers at the particular time in all the different areas that we were responsible for. We could see the work that would be done. There is no work being done - none. If a river is not cleaned, it is the very same as not cleaning the shore in your yard - it will get blocked. Will the Department stop this nonsense? That is what it is. I am appealing to the Minister of State, Deputy Moran, to please stand up to the mark on this and do something to clean the rivers or we are going to have huge problems with flooding that will be equally as bad as what we had in Storm Éowyn. That is all I am saying. We have no one to blame only ourselves - the politicians - if we do not change that law that exists at the moment.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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We have two more minutes, so I am going to give 30 seconds each because we are really tight on time. I am sorry to be so short, but that Senator Scahill can go first and then Deputy Carrigy. I am letting the Deputy back in because he is Co-Chair.
Gareth Scahill (Fine Gael)
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Mine is one of the households in west Roscommon that has been without power for nearly four weeks so far this year, with 13 nights for Storm Éowyn. During Storm Éowyn our communications went down as well. That is all right for me, my wife and my two kids under the age of ten. We have a heat pump in the house and the house is insulated like a fridge after about three or four days. However, when it comes to vulnerable users, and the ESB has a vulnerable user register, I, like many of the other public representatives in Roscommon, was going out on a daily basis visiting these people. There was no way whatsoever we could get them preferential treatment or any additional treatment. In a response, I would hope that the ESB would have a specific provision for those people, even if it is a pack, so that, if they are going to be without power for 48 hours, they get something. A lot of these people have ventilators or hospital beds in their homes. They need to be looked after. They are on a vulnerable user register for a reason.
There are multiple other issues. The CCMA mentioned clearing roads. The forestry where the trees came down, taking down power lines and knocking out vast areas, was on local and very minor roads. Clearing the main roads was not the main issue. I commend the ESB staff and the council staff.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Senator I have to ask you to finish.
Gareth Scahill (Fine Gael)
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I understand that, but to be honest, this has been a long time coming and I have to get this one off my chest. In the local authority, in the days after Storm Éowyn, I brought up the issue of the Army. The Army does not have the skill set at the moment. It does not have a unit with the skill set to go out with chainsaws to look after the fallen trees as a form of support. I hope that can be invested in and explored further and they can be supported so that things are better next time.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Senator, we are on a hard stop. You have ten seconds.
Gareth Scahill (Fine Gael)
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Storm Floris hit on 1 August 2025 and there was a yellow warning for Mayo. The Mayo border is about a mile and a half from my home. Unfortunately, storms do not stop at borders. The storms and the winds will keep coming, so we need to have the responses ready in the corresponding counties. The CCMA needs to get the communication out. I think I got two instances of correspondence from the Roscommon committee during the whole 13 days that I was without power during Éowyn. There were certain people sitting on the committee who were getting all the information. The other 17 councillors were not getting the information. There needs to be consistency in terms of the provision for food that is given out in these situations. The vouchers throughout the system were brilliant, but across the board we-----
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Senator, I have to stop you because we are about to go to a vote in the Dáil. I am sorry to cut you off. I know there is great interest in the topic, which is great, but we are on a hard stop. Deputy Carrigy is the final speaker.
Micheál Carrigy (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Thanks very much to all the witnesses for coming in. I nipped out to a communications meeting next door where we had representatives from the Department and from ComReg speaking about communications and the effects of Storm Éowyn. I have put forward an idea, which is being worked on, that we should have a national emergency communications system. Other countries, such as Luxembourg, which is a small nation, have such a system. In a national emergency, they can pinpoint and send out information to regions from all sectors. We need something like this to ensure the information gets out. A total of 99.9% of people have mobile phones now so we need to get that information out to them straight away in a co-ordinated fashion nationally.
Naoise Ó Muirí (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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We will leave it at that because votes are about to be called in the Dáil. I thank everybody for coming in. All opening statements will be published on the committees' websites. I assume that is okay with everybody. I thank everyone for participating in our meeting on storm response. I know there are some follow-up actions. There are two sets of information coming, so if they could be supplied to the committee, we will distribute them to members.