Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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On behalf of the committee, I welcome our guests today: Erika Hunter, Grace Conway, Zoe Fleming, Jayden O'Connor and Buhle Phiri who are participating in Co-operation Ireland's gold level peace award, which is the highest level of Co-operation Ireland's future leaders programme. They are all very welcome here to the committee.

I also welcome from Co-operation Ireland, Ms Sophie Corry, executive of the future leaders programme, and Ms Margaret Lucey, programme manager.

The format of the meeting is that I will invite each of you to make a short presentation of your statements. This will be followed by questions from members of the committee. Each member has seven minutes to ask questions and for witnesses to respond.

Before I begin, I wish to remind members of the constitutional requirement that in order to participate in public meetings, members must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex. Members of the committee attending remotely must do so from within the precincts of Leinster House. This is due to the constitutional requirement that in order to participate in public meetings, members must be physically present within the confines of the place where Parliament has chosen to sit. In that regard, I would ask members partaking via MS Teams that prior to making their contributions to the meeting, they confirm that they are on the grounds of the Leinster House complex.

Members and witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, I will direct them to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction. As the witnesses will probably be aware, the committee will publish the opening statements on its website following this meeting. MPs participating in the committee's session from a jurisdiction outside of the State are advised that they should be mindful of their domestic law and how it will apply to their participation in proceedings.

I understand our witnesses have a PowerPoint presentation for us. I invite Ms Hunter to start the presentation. You are all very welcome.

Ms Erika Hunter:

We are the Co-operation Ireland future leaders. Today, we are presenting to the committee See Our Silence, Hear our Vision, a Co-operation Ireland future leaders campaign for inclusive education across Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. As young people from across Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, we are participants in Co-operation Ireland's future leaders programme. This dynamic initiative is empowering us, equipping us with essential leadership skills, fostering deep cross-Border understanding and encouraging us to become active, engaged citizens in our communities. We are learning to bridge divides and build connections that truly matter. This programme is our foundation for change. It directly underpins our See our Silence, Hear our Vision campaign, giving us the tools and confidence to advocate effectively for inclusive education. For us, this is personal; it is about ensuring every young person has the opportunity to learn and thrive, shaping a more united and equitable future that we ourselves will live in and continue to build.

Ms Grace Conway:

We are here today because our core belief is that every young person deserves access to quality education and full participation in society as well as the ability to achieve their potential. Yet, for many deaf and blind young people across our island that access remains frustratingly limited. The power of awareness is essential in the first steps towards change. Without truly understanding the daily challenges faced by young people with sensory disabilities, we cannot hope to build the inclusive systems they deserve. These statistics reveal both the extent of sensory disability across our island and the urgent need for action: 1,603 young people in Northern Ireland report hearing impairments or requiring support, while 233,000 people in the Republic of Ireland, or 5% of the population, report deafness or hearing impairment and 297,000 in the Republic of Ireland report vision impairment to any degree. This has an effect on their mental health, with nearly 21% of deaf children in Northern Ireland having at least one psychological condition, compared with just 12% of hearing children. It also points towards an employment gap, where only 24% of people who are blind or vision impaired in the Republic of Ireland are employed, a shocking indication of exclusion.

Ms Zoe Fleming:

There are a lot of communication barriers.

Deaf young people face significant obstacles in daily learning, including a lack of qualified sign language interpreters, lengthy delays in receiving accessible technology and insufficient sign language training for teachers and peers in mainstream schools. I have seen this personally. My mam teaches law and she has gone on to learn ISL and continue with that. At that time, I was not able to do the course because I was too young. You have to be 16 or older to take that course, which is not right, considering people of all ages are deaf and you should be able to communicate with them. It also affects emotional well-being. Deaf children in Northern Ireland experience significantly higher rates of mental health conditions due to communication difficulties, social isolation and systematic barriers that prevent further inclusion in schools and social life.

On educational access issues, blind and vision-impaired students frequently encounter textbooks and learning materials that are not available in accessible formats when needed. Orientation and mobility supports remain chronically underresourced, limiting independence. This is a big thing in my school as well. My sister has a heart condition, so she cannot carry her bag. I just happen to be really lucky with my school and we have a lift, but even then it is quite misused when it comes to other people using it when they should not. There have been so many times where the lift has broken while people are on it and then it is out of commission for the day. The students who really need it are left not being able to tackle the stairs. My school is nearly four storeys tall and the stairs are really high. I have had to help my sister a couple of times when it comes to taking her bag down the stairs. She has a really heavy bag and she is just stuck on the stairs. It is quite ridiculous not to help people with their mobility issues when it comes to school and let them have that independence.

On future opportunities, young people with sensory disabilities are considerably less likely to complete higher education and face dramatically lower employment rates compared with their peers, limiting their life chances and contributions to society. To put it all simply, these are barriers to learning, to belonging and to future opportunities. They are preventable and they must be addressed. We want to be understood, with teachers, peers and support staff who can understand communication and teach inclusivity, creating environments where every student can be who they are and learn how they need to learn. We want to be included. Every classroom, every subject, every extracurricular activity and every social moment should be accessible, ensuring that every young person gets to experience it. We want to be empowered, with access to assistive technology, special training, professional support and smooth transitions into adulthood and employment, where young people get to thrive and live to their full potential. Inclusion is not a nice-to-have, it is a right.

Mr. Jayden O'Connor:

Our call to action, or what you can do: ring-fenced funding for inclusive education. Ensure schools across Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland have dedicated, protected budgets for interpreters, assistive technology for hearing and vision needs, specialists, teachers and accessible learning materials that cannot be delivered to other purposes. Provide mandatory training for all educators. Require that teacher training programmes and ongoing professional development include comprehensive deaf awareness, blind and low vision awareness, and inclusive communication methods as core competencies. Provide accessible materials from day 1. Guarantee that learning materials for blind or visually impaired students are available in accessible formats - large print, braille, audio and digital - at the start of each academic year, not months into the term. Provide for monitoring and accountability systems. Establish clear key performance indicators for schools around sensory disability, inclusion, the number of qualified staff, delays in assistive equipment provision, and progression rates into post-secondary school education and employment. On cross-Border co-operation, promote sharing of best practice between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Pool specialist resources, establish mutual recognition of qualifications for sign language interpreters, and develop joint policy and draft initiatives that benefit the entire island.

The student voice should be amplified through codesign. Deaf and blind young people should be involved directly in designing education policies, supports, services and transition programmes to ensure solutions match experiences and real needs. Employment pathways should be built. Comprehensive transition planning from school to further education, training and employment should be supported. Employers should be incentivised to hire and generally support young people with sensory disabilities.

Hear us, see us is our youth-led campaign for change, and its activities include awareness workshops in schools and youth clubs in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, social media campaigns, short films, school events sharing real stories, partnerships with deaf- and blind-led organisations to amplify impact, and petitions to education Ministers calling for concrete policy changes. We need the committee's support. The campaign is led by youth but we cannot create system change alone. We need policymakers, educators and community leaders to stand with us, champion our cause and commit resources to make inclusion a reality.

Ms Buhle Phiri:

Taking action has benefits. Investing in inclusive education for deaf and blind young people creates positive impacts throughout society. These include closing the attainment gap and improving educational outcomes and life chances for deaf and blind young people to enable them to achieve qualifications on a par with their peers to pursue their aspirations. This investment also improves mental well-being and reduces social and emotional isolation by creating truly inclusive environments. This leads to better mental health outcomes and stronger, more connected communities. It also strengthens our economy by increasing the pool of skilled young people entering further education and employment. It benefits the entire economy by ensuring we do not waste any talent due to preventable barriers. It would demonstrate leadership in equality, inclusion and rights-based education in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. On the international stage, it would set an example for other nations to follow.

Will you join our vision? Will you commit to building an education system and society where no young person is left behind because they cannot hear or see in the way others do? We urge the committee to work together hand in hand to make Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland places where all young people, whether deaf, blind, hearing or sighted, are fully included, fully valued and fully supported to reach their potential. See our silence and hear our vision. We thank the committee for its time and we look forward to working with it to turn this vision into a reality.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I thank all of the witnesses and their leaders for being here this morning. It is not easy. I noticed they were reading from the screens and fair play to them because it is not the clearest of text. They did it very well and I thank them for it. We will now have some questions from members of the committee and we will start with Senator Comyn.

Alison Comyn (Fianna Fail)
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Dia daoibh ar maidin agus cuirim fáilte romhaibh. I thank the witnesses for a very comprehensive and interesting presentation. I can see how they will all be leaders of the future. I am very confident in seeing some of them again and again. Some of the content is really interesting because some of the statistics are quite shocking, particularly that only 24% of people with special needs are employed afterwards in the Republic of Ireland. We will have to delve deeper into this and see how it can be improved.

We often focus on assisting with special needs in primary school and secondary school and then people are cast adrift afterwards. They do not necessarily get a special needs assistant or other supports in university or third level institutions or in job placements. It is very important for people like us to hear from people like the witnesses. Much as we like to think we have the finger on the pulse, that is not always the case. If we do not hear it from our children, it is very important to hear it from people such as the witnesses.

I will delve into a few particulars in a moment but I would like to start on a positive note. Somebody might tell me what is the best part of being involved in this particular programme, looking forward to the gold level peace award.

Ms Zoe Fleming:

The programme has made me so much more confident.

When I started it three years ago, I would not have been able to be sitting here today with all of you. I was sitting on a panel in Monaghan a couple of weeks ago as well and getting asked questions by loads of youth workers, therapists and those kinds of people about this kind of stuff and our programme. It is an amazing programme and gives us so many opportunities. We are going to London in two or three weeks to do work experience with a bank for a couple of days, which is an amazing opportunity. Before that, we do plenty of residentials to get to know one another. I would not be friends with half the people here if it was not for this programme. They are from Cork, Belfast and Limerick as well, I think, and the rest of us are from Dublin. It is all around Ireland.

We all get to come together to talk about issues in all our different sections. Last year, we did our social action on mental health, drug awareness and that kind of thing. We got to see how it is in all our different communities and the differences. Let us take, for example, homelessness, and how prominent it is in Dublin compared to Belfast or Cork, and stuff like that. We get to learn and make friends along the way. We get to be put into situations we never thought we would be in. I never thought I would be sitting here in the Dáil, just talking. It is an amazing programme and I have loved every minute I have been on it.

Alison Comyn (Fianna Fail)
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Well, I never thought I would be sitting here talking either, so we never know what will happen in our future. Was Grace surprised there were so many similarities in the issues faced cross-Border?

Ms Grace Conway:

Yes, especially because before I started this programme I knew nothing beyond where I lived, not even the town beside me, never mind away down in Cork. One of the things that really shocked me was how similar some of these issues were and that they affect everyone on the island and not just a certain part of it. I am sorry, I am trying to think-----

Alison Comyn (Fianna Fail)
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That is okay. You are doing incredibly well. People on this side of the table have difficulties, so do not worry. I would like to delve into one particular point, because I am sure my colleagues will pick out some of the many issues here. I think it was Zoe who mentioned Lámh and ISL not being widely available. Is this something she could envisage being put on a curriculum? Can we help to put it on a curriculum at a very much younger age?

Ms Zoe Fleming:

I would love if the course was on the school curriculum. It would be so much more accessible that way. At the minute, I am planning on doing the course next year because, being in sixth year, it is a lot at the minute. I am planning on doing it, but you have to do it in the Deaf Village Ireland. That is a little bit away from my house, so it is not as accessible as it would be. It would be so beneficial to have it on school curriculums or even just to have someone to come in, talk about it and be able to show the kids this is something that exists and this is the inclusivity there should be. If this had been made clear to me when I was younger, I would have been so much more interested in it. I got interested in it in about third year. I started talking about it to my mam because she used to have an ISL book. I was like, "Oh, I would love to learn this". She teaches Lámh because she works with people with autism, special needs and that kind of stuff. She teaches Lámh and uses it all the time, so she would have been teaching us little signs as kids. She taught our dog. Our dog speaks sign language. She taught our dog, which is insane.

Alison Comyn (Fianna Fail)
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That is lovely. Clever dog.

Ms Zoe Fleming:

Once I showed an interest in it, she took more of an interest in it. She was like, "I want to learn ISL now", so she went off and did her course. She is on her second year of it now. I think she is going into her third year, and then, hopefully, I will be going into it as well. If the course was in schools, though, and so much more accessible, it would be so inclusive. I cannot imagine if my way of communicating was ISL and so many people in Ireland do not know it. If my mam is out walking and someone lets her pass on the road, she says thank you with ISL. I am like, "Mam, as much as that is lovely, the majority of people do not know that." They are just thinking she is blowing kisses. I think it is so funny. Doing it should be more like when you are walking across the road and just saying thank you. It is common and most people do that. It is about being able to talk to people in this way. I love when I am with my mam and we see people signing. She is looking and saying, "Oh, my god, I know this." It is just so heartwarming to be able to do that. She might go off either and have a conversation with someone. It is about being able to see that inclusivity.

So many people in Ireland do not know how to sign. Currently, the majority of people do not even know there is a difference between ASL, ISL and ESL. I just think it is insane. I would love it if it was in more schools, especially for younger ages.

Alison Comyn (Fianna Fail)
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I just love the passion with which Ms Fleming is speaking about it. I see that 233,000 people, almost a quarter of a million people, in the Republic have hearing issues and reference was made to the 1,603 young people in Northern Ireland. This is certainly something I will pledge to bring forward to see if it can be brought into the school curriculum. I have run out of time. I thank all of the witnesses for coming in.

Garret Kelleher (Fine Gael)
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To follow on from Senator Comyn, in the Oireachtas there are differing levels of awareness and familiarity with the challenges that are being faced, and training is provided. Ms Fleming mentioned the challenge that her sister has at school and the fact she is fortunate enough to have a lift. How can we improve the awareness of challenges that are being faced, such as sensory challenges and challenges faced by people with various neurodivergent conditions? It is also about trying to bring that into the workplace. Mr. O’Connor covered the section on employers and trying to incentivise opportunities.

Can the witnesses let us know about the different groups with which they are working? Are they in close contact with SpunOut, AsIAm and other groups to promote awareness? What can we learn from that?

Ms Zoe Fleming:

When my sister was going into first year, or just before that, she had humongous heart surgery. When she was going in, she had just had the surgery about a month previously. As a result, carrying a bag was not an option. She also has scoliosis, which means she cannot carry her bag. She has a wheelie bag, which helps with the lift. However, the wheelie bag is even heavier with the wheels and the extra metal in it. I have had to try to carry both bags before, and it was not fun. I am a musician and I play a trombone, which is quite big and heavy. I carry it around all that time because I never stop playing, but carrying those two bags was next level. It is quite heavy.

Having those resources in school is really appreciated when it comes to making sure things do not go unnoticed. When it comes to the lift, it is about making sure people have lift passes and are using it right, so that resource does not get ruined for other people. It also comes from making sure there is help in the schools for people who need it. One of my friends was dealing with health issues. It turned out the school had let that slip and did not find out until this year, although they should have known before. It meant she was not getting the help she needed. There needs to be more of a conversation when people are going in to ensure that information gets passed throughout the school.

It is the same with different clubs. I was part of my local youth club, and I got my sister into it as well. I was going up, getting all the information and filling out the forms, and then my dad went up and filled them out. It turned out that the information had not been passed on, so we had to go up and do the whole thing again and have the whole conversation again. The majority of that information is not being passed on between people where it should be. As a result, some people are falling between the cracks when they should not be. This happens with dyslexia, autism, ADHD and all of that kind of stuff. The majority of people will fall through the cracks because they do not want it to be out in public and have their personal information shown. That is perfectly fine because it is their personal information. However, where there are people who need to know, I have seen that they are not paying as much attention as they should be, and it is not taken as a big enough issue. People are falling through the cracks when they should not be.

Garret Kelleher (Fine Gael)
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I will come back to the issue of barriers to belonging and inclusion. Ms Phiri made reference to the fact that inclusion is not something that is nice to have; it is a right. Coming up in the car, I had a chat with a parent who is concerned about her daughter transitioning from primary school to secondary school.

The secondary school she is thinking of sending her daughter to may be a different one than the school her son attends. It is to try to find the appropriate place for the continuation of education. On the awareness thing, is the programme interacting with other groups in improving awareness of the challenges that are being faced?

Ms Grace Conway:

I am still in contact with my BSL instructor. I have a certificate in the beginning. She will regularly send me articles or issues that are being directed towards the deaf community. I am also still in contact with my other instructor who grew up deaf. I have learnt first hand from him as well. I learnt from the group I was in as well because there were a couple of people there who were starting because their child had been born deaf or their parent was starting to lose hearing. It has not been a couple of different organisations. It has been from first-hand experience of other people we have kept in contact with.

Garret Kelleher (Fine Gael)
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Finally, will the witnesses tell us a bit about North-South co-operation? We have had other groups before this committee and the comparison of statistics is often a challenge. Ms Hunter mentioned at the start about the 1,603 young people who are deaf or who have a hearing impairment. The comparative statistics seem to be for the wider population south of the Border. Is the comparison of statistics between North and South something that they find problematic?

Ms Erika Hunter:

I would not necessarily say problematic but you can see that it is prominent on both sides of the Border. People are deaf on both sides. There just needs to be more awareness. I will tell a story. I work in a cafe and when I was in work the other day a deaf man came up to me and ordered a coffee but I did not understand sign language so I did not know what coffee he wanted. Thankfully, one of my co-workers knew sign language but had I been the only one there he would not have been able to get a coffee. You think it is just about schools and jobs. They are obviously huge things in life but if deaf people want a coffee they might not even be able to get one. That is sad. It is the day-to-day things. If there are cars coming down the road, they cannot hear someone calling. People cannot tell them because they cannot do sign language. It is a weird thing that it is not put into schools. We have to do history and geography in the junior certificate and then we can chose after. It should be the same thing with sign language. If we could do it at least up to third year then we would have the basics. Then if you wanted to do it for the leaving certificate you could become fluent. It is the same thing with other languages in schools. If it could be put in place with a modern foreign language, you could take those languages or Irish sign language to make it more accessible for young people to learn how to do sign language. I have never been given the opportunity to learn sign language and I would love to. Ms Fleming was saying you can do it in the deaf village and you have to be 16 and all this. Younger people should be learning it so that if they become friends with a deaf person, they can talk to them and they can communicate with other people who are on the same level as them. I feel like it is putting levels on people, as if people who are not deaf are bigger because they can hear. Deaf people cannot communicate with people who do not know sign language. It is just putting a lot of unnecessary barriers up in their lives. In this country especially, we are so developed. Deaf people and blind people should be able to go about their day, just the same as anyone else. It is up to the people who are not deaf to learn sign language and for it to be implemented in schools. It is up to them to learn about how deaf people and blind people go about their days and lives and to know about their struggles so that they can consider them in their daily lives and make those lives easier.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator Kelleher for that. I call Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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Gabhaim buíochas libh ar fad. Fáilte romhaibh go léir. It is a really good opportunity for us to have six young people here before us this morning. I really value their time and also the work they have done on this really important issue.

I want to bring it a bit further in terms of making their work count and how they can influence policy. They told us that we could all do our bit. In the context of the move in the North to lower the voting age to 16, what are their thoughts on that? Do they think we should be lowering the voting age in the South as well to get people involved at a very early age and also to ensure that those who are then coming to ask for their votes can be told what is important to them and what they need done?

I will start on this side of the room first about lowering the voting age to 16.

Ms Buhle Phiri:

I do not think it is a good idea. Sixteen-year-olds barely know how to make basic decisions, so putting that power into their hands to ask them to vote and choose who leads the country is an impulsive decision because they are not very good.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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With that, if a programme was aligned with this to ensure 16-year-olds were informed about voting and how to get their voice heard, does Mrs Phiri think it would make a difference if this was alongside it?

Ms Buhle Phiri:

Yes, I do. Advice from educated people and people who are well versed on voting and things would be very good. Otherwise, independently choosing is not a good idea.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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I do not think it would be the intention to do it independently but it would - "force" is the wrong word - encourage schools to ensure that, within the curriculums they were teaching, young people were informed and educated about voting processes and so on. I ask Ms. Corry the same question.

Ms Sophie Corry:

For me, as a youth worker, I look at it slightly differently. However, before even thinking about lowering the voting age, raising the education about active citizenship and voting is crucial, particularly around the island of Ireland and how it can prepare young people to actually vote. It is like Ms Phiri says: every young person is different and individual but it is our responsibility to equip them with the right education and the knowledge of who they are voting for, why they are voting for them and why it is important. There is a big educational piece there to do but I am for lowering the voting age when it is appropriate and when the groundwork has been done. Young people's voices are just as important, even two years younger.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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Obviously, the British Government is going to go ahead with lowering the voting age and then there will be 16-year-olds this side of the Border who will not be entitled to vote. Does Ms Corry think issues may arise then?

Ms Sophie Corry:

Yes, it would definitely put a shake in the co-operation. Co-operation Ireland brings young people together and if that was to happen, we would have a huge gap that we would have to address. However, there is only so much we could do. If we are trying to make a co-operative Ireland and island, it is only fair that every young person who lives in Ireland has the same rights to vote, North or South of the Border.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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And the same President. Do any of the others want to comment on lowering the voting age?

Ms Zoe Fleming:

It is very in-between. I am 17 and I know a lot of people my age would not care. A lot of my friends who have just turned 18 did not want to vote for the President. They did not care about it. Some were saying they would spoil their vote and that they did not want to vote. At this age, you are not really put forward to all the politics and the news stuff. It is more studying, school and extracurriculars. You do not really care. Personally, I would look into it. I would be more about what something was or I would have a conversation at home about what a vote was for and that kind of stuff, but the majority of 16-year-olds - up to 18 - would not really care much. Then, obviously, there are the ones who would care and want to get their voices heard.

I am one of those people who love getting my voice heard. I love standing up and saying what I think but it is very in between. It is split in the middle when it comes to whether people care or not and the people who want to get heard. I like the thought of it but people might not do the research they should and then realise afterwards that they made the wrong decision.

I was talking about the presidential election with my friends. One of them said they were going to vote for this person and I asked what did they see about them and what did they like about them. My friend said they did not know, they just liked who they are. I said "Okay, but did you look into it?" It is not a thing where people put the effort into learning about it; it is just writing on the sheet. It really depends on whether, as the Deputy said, they have the education and it is about having it more in schools. We do politics and society but that is taken away after third year and then you have the option for it. I did not take it. I wanted to but I had other subjects I preferred. In my school, religion is a module so you do not have to take it. You take it and it is not an exam subject. It could be like that, where you teach young people politics and the different sides and let them choose what they want.

Ms Erika Hunter:

The voting age should be lowered to 16. As young people, we see and know a lot. People think we do not know as much as we do. Our say is just as important as that of anyone over the age of 18. I was not able to vote this year and I am turning 18 in two days. The voting age should be lowered because between 16 and 18, in the reality of it all, there is not much of a difference. I am not that much different from when I was 16. You learn more and more but if we were able to vote, I feel more people would take the time to look into politics, watch the news and see what is going on and what is happening to our country. At the end of the day, it is our future just as much as anyone else's, especially when we are going to be adults in a year or two. We will be adults and they will still be the President. We should have a say in who will be the President and in voting for anyone, for that matter, not just the President.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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You will be nearly 25 when the next presidential election takes place.

Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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Another interesting point is that at 16, you can work so you also pay taxes. If you are obliged to pay taxes, you should be able to decide how that money is spent by voting.

The witnesses talked about the role of young people in becoming politically aware or education. Will they talk about what they think politicians should do to change how we communicate so that young people engage more? We can say young people should be looking into politicians but there is a role we play in how we communicate, what platforms we communicate on and how we reach out to young people. Do the witnesses have suggestions or ideas of how politicians, both North and South, could change or evolve how we communicate to actually reach young people? Everyone is welcome to answer.

Ms Zoe Fleming:

Using platforms young people normally use. With the American presidential election, I think, TikTok was used a lot.

Ms Erika Hunter:

The new mayor in New York.

Ms Zoe Fleming:

It is more accessible then for those young people. If I am not looking for it, I am not going to find it, whereas if it is on TikTok, you are just scrolling and it comes up. You think, "Hold on, that is this person", and you continue to watch the video and listen to what they have to say and you think, "I like that". I personally think going to schools would be such a big thing. I know if I am sitting in a meeting where someone is after coming in and we are getting a talk, it can sometimes be really boring but the majority of those meetings are quite interesting. Our school is doing loads about college at the minute, so loads of people from different colleges are coming in to tell us all about them. You learn things you did not know before.

TDs or anyone running for anything could make the time to come into different schools or do something like the Higher Options exhibition where we all go to look at the different colleges. A meeting could be held in the RDS, schools invited and there could be talks and so on where young people would be encouraged to learn about it. It would be a way to get attention.

Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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Does anyone else want to respond?

Ms Erika Hunter:

Definitely coming into schools, interacting in schools and youth clubs would be good. Many people in my community go to youth clubs after school. We see all the posters up on the traffic light poles and so forth. We see the faces, but we do not know who the politicians are. If they came into schools, youth groups or football clubs, young people could get to know politicians better, rather than them just seeing the faces on the billboards and saying "He looks sound; I will choose him". We do not really have anything to base our decision on. There are videos of politicians but not every young person will sit down and watch them. It would be good if we got to know how they really are and not just the things they say because they are what everyone wants to hear. We could see people's personalities if they came into schools.

Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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Do any of the witnesses want to go into politics? Do they see a future in politics? If not, why not? Are there challenges or barriers that are too difficult to overcome?

Ms Zoe Fleming:

Personally, it is not for me. I want to go on with my music and I hope be in the pit for a musical some day or playing with the Army. I have a lot of family members in the Army. I would love to join as one of its musicians, but the more I have done this - sitting and speaking - the more people tell me that I would make money speaking and that I should do that. I did something in Monaghan for Co-operation Ireland Future Leaders a few weeks ago and I felt like a celebrity. I was walking out and every person in the room came up to me and said well done or told me I had done well. I felt like a celebrity. I have never had that many people come up to talk to me. It was insane. It would be an option, but I think it would not be for me. However, I love getting my voice heard so it might be up there.

Ms Grace Conway:

My uncle put me off from a young age. He would not go into any further detail other than to say he was a politician and that I should not do it. Growing up around that put me off everything to do with it, which I do not necessarily agree with. That was his opinion and it came from someone in the field. I have made it obvious today that I am not the best at public speaking either.

Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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That is a learned skill. Ms Conway does not need to be good at it at this point. Probably the first time everyone in this room made a speech in the Chamber or spoke in front of people elsewhere, they were nervous and shaking. Even people who have been in politics for a decade are still shaking and nervous. Ms Conway does not need to worry about that. It will come with time.

Ms Grace Conway:

That is good, but I think my uncle has put me off.

Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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My mum used to say politics was a mug's game, but here I am, not listening to my mum. I am sure we are all like that.

We talked about TikTok. Many politicians are worried about misinformation and disinformation. When the witnesses access social media platforms, do they always know whether the information they receive is real? In their friendship groups or among the young people when they do youth engagements, is anyone concerned about that? Are those conversations happening?

Ms Erika Hunter:

It is easy for misinformation to spread like wildfire. One person could post one thing and then everyone posts it and then everyone believes it. We did a lesson in civic, social and political education, CSPE, in third year in my school about how to detect fake news, how to find out whether something is real. People have to dive in and look at the background to see if it matches up or not. However, it is very easy to believe things people see online if they just pick up their phones for two seconds. They put it straight back down and think something has happened, but it is not always the case.

It is dangerous because someone you do not know could say something about you and everyone might believe it. Sometimes, that is just life. People will say things and you just have to say that you know it is not true. When people make up lies about politicians, politicians have to back themselves on that and say it did not happen or admit it did. A lot of people do not know how to detect fake news because it is hard. People have to spend a while making sure something is real and doing background checks.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses for their insightful answers. We will need to talk to Ms Conway's uncle. Often, young people do the complete opposite of the advice they are given, so maybe he is operating in reverse and trying to get her into politics.

Mr. Dáire Hughes:

I thank the witnesses for their presentations and contributions today. It can be daunting to sit in a forum like this one and that they presented as professionally as they did was welcome. It is endearing and powerful to see young people being such powerful advocates for young persons with disabilities in particular and, more broadly, addressing of all the various questions today. I thank them for that.

There was nothing in their presentation that any reasonable person could disagree with. The only thing I would say is that, given the standard of the presentation and the scale of the issue, it is not appropriate for the witnesses to label themselves as future leaders. They should be impatient about this now. They should be leading on this campaign now. They have demonstrated the capacity and ability to do so and if there is anything the committee can do to lift that campaign, they should detail that to it.

The effects of exclusion and the barriers to individuals achieving their potential is an issue that affects every community on this island. The witnesses' demands are deliverable. Co-operation on a North-South basis is essential. It is in everyone's interest that young people with disabilities are given every opportunity to reach their potential in life and that carries through all of society. Co-design is just how good policy is made.

On training and resourcing, every state has the obligation to resource its education system to the point where everyone can access it to the fullest of their ability. The points on accessibility, accountability and defining opportunities beyond education is all incredibly powerful and I agree entirely with them. It strikes me, however, that both jurisdictions on this island are parties to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, which states quite categorically that every disabled citizen has the right to full attainment of education and that resources and services need to be put in place to allow them to avail of that. The onus is on the states - the Governments - to resource our education services appropriately to ensure no citizen is left behind.

There is a broader point as well that more diverse and inclusive school communities are good for society as a whole because people get to interact with people from different backgrounds and with different challenges in life. They get to understand them and carry that with them through their lives, so it is incredibly important. That also carries on to the issue of the educational attainment and employment gap that the witnesses addressed in their presentation. It helps to narrow those problems.

The division of our island creates a problem in the uniformity of services and how they are applied. Partition affects education and educational attainment on this island. There is divergence of assessment and grading all the way up to third level. There are difficulties with recognition of qualifications. There are individual challenges in both jurisdictions, such as student accommodation. Workforce planning is divided. The effect of Brexit is that the opportunities that were once afforded to citizens in the North are no longer afforded to them and there is a general education gap in terms of attainment.

In that vein and on the back of the witnesses' presentation, I will ask a question. One of the roles of being a leader is planning for the future. What consideration have they given to what the future holds? What is the best set-up for young people to be able to avail of every opportunity afforded to them and reach their potential in life? Where do the opportunities lie in respect of education, economy, health or even socially and culturally? Ms Fleming wants to be in the pit, but she could be on the stage as well. They are the opportunities.

In what dynamic would the witnesses be in a position where they can maximise their opportunities and fulfil their potential? They have identified that greater co-operation is needed on the rights of persons with disabilities. I would be interested to know where they are going next. What is the next presentation, campaign and challenge that they want to bring to us?

Ms Sophie Corry:

The group have been working over the past six weeks on initiating this campaign and had so many ideas that they want to challenge with, as future leaders. They take it and run with it, but this is the one that they wanted to focus on. As Zoe and some of the others have said, it is personal for them. For us going forward, they have six months left in the programme, and we will be continuing this. For me, my role will be continuing to work with the group and looking at how we can implement this within our own group, whether that is looking at doing sign language courses or something like that. We are actual role models for it as well. We are not just sitting here doing a presentation for it. We are actually putting that into action and they can take it into their own individual communities. There is no doubt today that they will be future leaders and will continue to be leaders on every issue they want to focus on. As I said, last year, they focused on mental health and drug awareness. That was a social media campaign through Co-operation Ireland. That reached the whole island of Ireland, which was fantastic. We have every confidence that they will continue to do more and we will support them to do that.

Mr. Dáire Hughes:

The programme is called future leaders, but they should consider themselves present leaders. I see the witnesses will be at the Assembly later this week. Is the same programme being presented?

Ms Sophie Corry:

Yes. On Friday, they are in the Assembly at Stormont for the same presentation.

Mr. Dáire Hughes:

They can compare and contrast the standards of the panel that they face, between the Assembly and the Oireachtas.

Ms Margaret Lucey:

Regarding where we take it next, many of the young people have spoken here about the chance and the education they have been given. It is to give access to the shared island and co-operation. We have a limited number of young people. We need this opportunity to be available for them to work together, to share it across the island and to show by best practice. For me, the next level would be for these guys to stay connected and for us to mentor more young people, to give that guidance. We want to put that age down to 16. The best encouragement will be young people like these guys.

Niall Blaney (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the group for their presentation today. Like Mr. Hughes, I agree that they are current leaders. They are leading here today, through what they have demonstrated and what they have done. Like Senator Stephenson, I remember entering politics in 1999, and the nerves were hard work. They really were. They have not gone away. They still exist, but you learn to cope better. It only evolves with practice. Dealing with my own thoughts was my biggest challenge. I was my own biggest critic. The group are certainly taking their first steps as future leaders. No matter what they do in life, it is about building their CV, and they are certainly starting theirs. Well done on their presentation, first and foremost, and to Co-operation Ireland for having the group in and bringing diverse groups like this together.

It reminds me of another group that exists, a North-South group called Politics in Action. This year, it is bringing together second level kids from North and South. This year, there are two schools in Donegal, the Royal in Raphoe and the Loreto in Milford, coming together with Lismore College in Armagh and Magherafelt High School in Derry. The power of those groups coming together and sharing their knowledge of their backgrounds, and realising that we do not have that much difference, just perceptions, is significant. The group are breaking down so many barriers by coming here today and presenting in the way they do. That is extremely powerful. They gave a powerful message here today and are creating their own vision of education. As policymakers, we certainly have to sit up and listen to that.

We certainly want to carry their vision. In light of that, I think it is only right that we write to the education ministers, North and South, about the vision, share it with them and ask them to consider it. We could also maybe write to the committees on education. I ask that we write to the committee in this House and maybe Stormont as well, to ask that they all consider it. We are spreading the witnesses' word, particularly to those who deal with it in depth. Just like our committee on the Good Friday Agreement, the committee deals with education. It will be a powerful message to send to it.

I heard the witnesses' views on voting. It was good to hear diverse opinions. I have three kids, aged 19, 17 and 15. They are all about to turn another year. It is incredible how kids today are probably more informed at 16 than many of the voters who are aged between 18 and 90 or 100, because of their presence on and use of TikTok. Ms Hunter referred to the mayor of New York. I wonder how many in Leinster House are aware of what is happening in politics in New York.

Ms Erika Hunter:

I am going to New York on Thursday, so I will write the Senator a letter to tell him all about it.

Niall Blaney (Fianna Fail)
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Very good. It is a fantastic city. It is great to get that insight. I believe that children of today are far more developed than we were when growing up. I believe we will have to give consideration to views on voting at 16. We also need to consider those in a professional capacity, whether psychologists or others, because there is a responsibility. Certainly, as a parent, there is a responsibility in dealing with children and taking decisions for them. We need to consider where the capacity is for a 16-year-old today in relation to taking decisions. Without applying too much pressure at too young an age, that is certainly a point to consider in all of that.

I do not have any questions per se. I am delighted to hear the witnesses' heartfelt presentation today. We certainly look forward to doing whatever we can for them. If we have any impact, the witnesses might consider coming back to talk to us again and giving us their views.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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On Senator Blaney's proposal, is the committee in agreement about writing to both ministers, and to the education committee in the House and in the North? Agreed. That is a useful suggestion to put the witnesses' presentation on a formal footing and alert the relevant Departments to it. I thank Senator Blaney.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the witnesses. I was thinking of the first time when I had to make a speech. I was at a conference. I was reading away and looked up and saw the flash of a camera. I looked down and all the writing disappeared off the page. At the same time, a bell was ringing to say I was finished my speech, but I was not finished my speech. Lo and behold, the writing on the page came back and I finished. That was my first speech at a conference. We are still nervous about these things.

The witnesses talked about putting things on the curriculum. The problem is that when teachers hear that we have a problem in society and it needs to be put on the curriculum, there is a collective groan, because everyone seems to think that if we put it on the curriculum, we can solve everything. Many of the things that the witnesses are talking about are people being excluded rather than included. That is what their campaign is about. People ask why you would get involved in politics. Many of us around this table probably got involved because we felt that people were being excluded or that there was something wrong with society, so that was why we got into it. We felt that the best way of actually changing things was getting involved.

When I was the witnesses' age I was not particularly interested in getting involved. The first time I was elected to Leinster House was back in 2002. The first time I was ever in the building was when I was coming in to sign the roll that says you are a Member. I did not know anyone who was involved in politics. None of my family are involved. A lot of people who are involved in this organisation have family members who were involved, like their mother or father. That in itself excludes a lot of people, especially young people from working-class backgrounds. When I was growing up there were not a huge number of people involved in politics in that sense, but they got involved through organisations. Thinking about Irish Sign Language, I remember debates in the Houses when we talking about recognising ISL and how important that would be for the deaf community, but again that was coming from the deaf community members themselves. It is people like the witnesses who are raising these issues and feel really strongly about them who are the ones who do it.

There is a lot wrong with Irish society. The witnesses gave the example of Irish Sign Language. I know of a child who was going to one of my local schools. The child was legally blind and needed a load of sensory equipment. There was a big campaign within the school and the equipment that was eventually secured. Then the SNA who was helping the child with the sensory equipment that made them feel included was going to be taken away, so there are a lot of silly mistakes made in society as well. Fair play to the witnesses for raising some of the issues. I appeal to them not to turn their backs on politics because it can change things. It is about involvement in youth clubs, environmental groups or whatever people are interested in. If they are interested in music, yjru could think about how more people could have access to that. I cannot play any musical instrument but the witnesses have the chance to do that. If their campaign is really to be successful it is important to include as many people as possible and not exclude people and I think that is the essence of it. Am I right or wrong about that?

I am sorry for going on. I did not put my question either. Would the witnesses like to respond to that? What do they think?

Ms Zoe Fleming:

I agree. It is all about the inclusivity and being able to have those resources there for people, because when it comes to my music it just fell into my lap. I managed to become friends with someone on my road and they knew about it and they decided they did not want to do it so they gave it to me. I went up and it was right around the corner from me. It is run out of a school. It is the Finglas concert and marching band if people want to have a look. We are great. It was right around the corner from me and I had no idea. We went up and I have been there since. I have never stopped and I do not intend to but it is all about having those resources there for people. Had I had something like that for ISL or if I had a friend younger who was dealing with that I would have learned a lot quicker and would have had more of an interest in it.

When it comes to the curriculum and that kind of stuff, even if it was put in as a little activity or a class in primary school it would build up a lot more talk about it and a lot more interest. My little cousin is so interested in Japanese. I do not know where she got it from but she is so interested and she was talking about it. My school does it after school. She said my school does not do it and I told her it does, but it does not start until leaving certificate. She is still in primary school and she will have to wait, so I have her doing Duolingo and that kind of stuff and she is learning on her own. It is about having those things accessible to people. Even with the Irish language, I feel like the way that is taught is ridiculous. It is not taught the way it should be at all and I have taken on trying to learn it. My friend went to an Irish school and she is completely fluent, so any time I see her I try my best to just talk. I do not like the way it is taught. It should not be taught the way it is.

The way it is taught is like "Here is a poem, learn it off and say it back to me" whereas I feel it should be more spoken. It is the same with ISL, music and all that kind of stuff. It should be more talked about and more put into our curriculum. When it comes to the Irish culture it is not present enough in our lives, particularly when it comes to inclusivity. I will continue to mention ISL. It needs to be available for more people to be able to learn. If people do not want to learn, that is okay but for those who want to learn and would love to be able to, to include all of them is so fundamental.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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The witnesses are all involved in different youth clubs. What if it was available at community level for people interested in, say, ISL? What if that was the platform? There could be Irish language classes in the community. They do not necessarily have to be in the school because there are only a certain number of things that can be fitted in. If there is a problem on the roads, for example, like young people not being able to drive, we will get them to be taught that in school. If there is a problem with drugs in the community, we say we will get them to think about that in school. It is always back to the school, but a lot of it can be solved in the community by involving people at that level. It does not have to be only the young. A person of any age could be interested in sign language. Ms Fleming is right to highlight that we are excluding people by not being able to communicate with them. Like the child I mentioned who was having the SNA taken away, it does not make sense but we do it as a society. I just think the witnesses need to look outside the box as well as just the curriculum.

Ms Zoe Fleming:

I feel like it keeps going back to the schools because that is where every child has to go. That is where they can be reached. If it is outside school there are people who are struggling with things in their lives. You do not know what is going on in someone’s life and they might not have the opportunity to go out and go to a youth club or to classes outside school. Personally, I am a busy, busy bee. I am at one thing and the next all the time. I try to make time for that kind of stuff because I love going out in the community and doing my extracurriculars and all that kind of stuff, but when it comes to schools and education, that is where everyone is, where everyone comes together and where everyone learns. If it is even just brought up in school, like with everyone coming down to the hall for a talk about it that will spark the interest and then they can go outside the school. It just needs to be started where everyone is because if it starts outside school there are going to be people who miss it and ones who it goes right over. They come back a couple of years later and say they would have loved to do that had they known about it as a kid. It could even be opened outside schools and then people could go in, give a talk and hand out flyers, which is what my band do. We have these flyers and we run things to have people know about it and come in. We did the open night for the school we run out of. We had a little stand and were giving out our flyers to all the kids coming in to have a look at the school. We are saying we are here and we are an extra thing outside the school they can have a look at. It needs to be started. It does not have to be a class, a course or anything like that in school. It just needs to be talked about so it can branch and out and people can know it is there in the community.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms Fleming. It has been a very good engagement this morning. I pass on some thanks from Claire Hanna and Senator Black who were online but could not, unfortunately, stay. They congratulate you all on your excellent presentation and your engagement with the committee.

For my part, I am interested in how the topic "See Our Silence, Hear Our Vision" was selected. You mentioned last year mental health and drugs were being discussed, so what was the real catalyst for your group to select this campaign?

Ms Erika Hunter:

We just discussed problems. When we are choosing our social options, it is the same every year. We bring up problems in our communities that we think are important and that we want to change. We put them forward to the group because everyone is from different places so they might have different answers, but nine times out of ten we all face the same problems no matter where on the island we are.

We chose this one because we thought it was the most important and were interested in it. A lot of us did not know much about it so we wanted to learn about it as much as we now want everyone else to learn about it as well. We wanted to become informed on a topic that was a kind of grey area for us. We had not heard much about it and that is one of the reasons we found it to be so important to bring it here. We have not heard much about it and I feel that everyone should know about it. Everyone should be educated on it. Everyone should be clear about it and not need to learn about it themselves, as we did. It should be clear across the board that everyone knows. It is something that needs to change. Everyone knows which changes need to be made and so on.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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That is true. I think it was Mr. O'Connor who made the point earlier about access and technology. There was a case in my constituency where a child needed particular technology for his education. Ms Hunter mentioned books, for instance, being in Braille, larger text or whatever the case may be. However, it is as though it were the first time it was ever heard of and it takes months, as she said, for it to get to the students, when the school knows before the summer that this child is coming in. There should be a quicker response to those individuals who need it. All the witnesses spoke about the gap that exists, unfortunately, for people who have additional needs, be they learning or other needs, and the impact it has on their ability to take in information in school. Ultimately, they fall behind. The presentation also highlighted very well the later gap in employment for individuals who face those challenges.

Does Mr. O'Connor want to add anything about any other elements from the campaign and research that took place? Did anything stand out to him? Ms Hunter said that the witnesses were learning more about this as well. Did anything strike him?

Mr. Jayden O'Connor:

It is such a big problem in our communities, which I do not know much about. I have friends with visual impairments so I know a lot about the assistance they need. We have wonderful SNAs but they are not always available, so it is sometimes a struggle. It comes down to the small things, such as voice recording notes for students, getting people to type up notes for students and stuff like that.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Then the exams are a challenge for those individuals as well.

Ms Fleming is probably the quietest of the group - is that true? - and the shyest. However, all the witnesses have great confidence, as has been shown this morning. I hope they have enjoyed engaging with the committee and engagements like this. The witnesses are going to Stormont. Some people are going to New York for their birthday. I am glad Ms Hunter could fit us into her busy schedule today. It is fantastic to have them all here this morning. I believe it to be the first time Co-operation Ireland Future Leaders has come before the committee and this is a relevant topic. I commend them on selecting it and doing all the research and on the presentation they gave this morning. It was very informative for us as Members of this Parliament to hear their voices.

The discussion on what age people get the right to vote is alive and well. On Ms Phiri's point on whether 16-year-olds should or should not be able to vote, in advance of the general election in 2020, a number of schools were having these discussions and it was a mixed bag in every school. Some children who were under the age of 18 did not want the right to vote and others had requirements they thought should be put in place prior to any consideration of it. However, Ms Corry's point on education, deciphering disinformation and misinformation and giving proper information to individuals so they can make informed decisions is well made. That debate will rage on a little longer, but I commend Co-operation Ireland Future Leaders on the work it has done and each and every one of the witnesses on coming this morning, leaving the nerves at the door and making valuable, confident presentations. Ms Conway should not listen to her uncle. It is not about being in politics. The important part of today is that the witnesses came into the House, made excellent presentations and represented themselves and their communities, schools and youth clubs exceptionally well.

They are all very confident. I hope this gives them food for thought as regards doing the same presentation at Stormont and in London. They are very busy in Co-operation Ireland.

I will direct my last question to Ms. Corry. On the make-up and funding of Co-operation Ireland, I understand the organisation has been around since 1979. How are the kids from both jurisdictions selected for this particular leadership programme? How often do they meet? Did Ms Corry say it was every six months?

Ms Sophie Corry:

This is Co-operation Ireland's flagship initiative. Ms Lucey played quite a massive part in founding it. It is a three-level programme. Initially, we have our bronze level, which brings together schools from both the North and the South in a cross-Border initiative. They then work together. For example, we might have a school in Derry-Londonderry paired with a school in Galway. They would work together over a year in team-building residentials, leadership residentials, social action projects and employability workshops. That would involve roughly 160 students. Once they complete that, the schools can apply for the silver level. This involves our all-island youth forum. These guys applied last year and were interviewed by myself, Ms Lucey or other members of the future leaders team. They go through an interview process and are selected based on that process and their applications. It is quite similar with the gold level. The participants apply again. It is sort of like a funnel. At each level, it gets a little bit smaller but the participants get to take up great opportunities like this in the areas of social action, lobbying and the world of work. That is why they are going to London. We have a partnership with Morgan Stanley. They are going to London in two weeks to see that world of employability and to build those skills. We are currently funded by programme ambassadors. Different organisations and businesses come together to work with us in different capacities. For example, Morgan Stanley will host us for our world of work residential. That is how it contributes. We are very lucky to have a diverse range of ambassadors helping us. As with other charities and initiatives, we are always looking for new opportunities for funding. It is a very worthwhile initiative and we all enjoy being a part of it.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I will give the last words to the young leaders. Will they each give us a word or two about how they found the programme to encourage other people to get involved?

Ms Buhle Phiri:

I found the programme to be very good because it opened opportunities up to me that I never had beforehand. I got to go to different places. I do geography, so I learned about Northern Ireland but I had not really been there before. With the residential that I did as part of the bronze level, we got to go to Northern Ireland, to actually be there and to see the peace walls. It was really nice and cool to learn about different cultures and people with different backgrounds. It was very good and very insightful. You learn about different things. I did not know the statuses of deaf and blind people. In my area, there are not really many blind or deaf people, so I would not have been very educated on that. It helped me and equipped me with the knowledge I needed to present today.

Mr. Jayden O'Connor:

The travelling is an amazing aspect and allows you to see the country. There is also the education we get along the way from the presentation today to other workshops we have done throughout the year. Personally, it brought me out of my comfort zone a bit. I had to push myself to talk to new people and things like that.

Ms Zoe Fleming:

It is an amazing programme. It really lets you come out of your shell. I never would have been friends with the same number of people as I am now, especially when it comes to the North and that kind of stuff. I learned so much. I remember that, at one of the first residentials we had, two or three girls from up the North and I were just sitting in a room talking and somehow got on to the topic of school and that kind of stuff. I had no idea what school was like up the North. It was so different. I had to ask what GCSEs were. Now I know and I think it is insane. I had no idea. Lots of opportunities come with it. I have been brought up with the mentality that I should never say "No" to anything and to always say "Yes", so that is what I have done.

I go on mad side quests now, especially with Co-operation Ireland. My dad asks, "What are you doing now?", and I say I am going to Belfast to do this or I am going to London for that. I told him that I was in the Dáil today and he said, "In the Dáil? What?" It is an amazing opportunity and so many more people need to get involved in it. It needs to be broadcast more. It is an amazing programme.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Fair play. Well done.

Ms Grace Conway:

It has been interesting to be part of it. I am interested in anthropology, which is the study of different cultures and diversities. The programme has educated me on different cultures within the island. Through the programme, I got to meet Hawaiian delegates last year. That was eye-opening. We got onto the topic of universities and tuition costs. A year in Queen's University costs between £4,000 and £8,000. For them, it was upwards of $100,000. The amount of education we get through the programme from first-hand experience has been absolutely amazing.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Very good. Excellent.

Ms Erika Hunter:

It is class - the number of things we have learned, the number of people we have met and opportunities we would have never got. My CV is jammers with the amount of stuff that we can put on our CVs-----

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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It is a booklet.

Ms Erika Hunter:

-----because of this. It like the Bible - the size of it. There is so much stuff on it. The programme has provided me with so many opportunities. We did mock job interviews and that is how I got my job for the summer.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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It works.

Ms Erika Hunter:

It is very good.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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That is brilliant. It is a credit to you all. You are great ambassadors for the programme. Well done to each and every one of you. Before we conclude, do any members wish to ask any additional questions?

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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I thank everyone for being here. We have learnt a lot from them today. We will use their contributions to see if we can help or make a difference and ensure they land on the right desk. I encourage our guests to continue doing what they are doing and have their voices heard. It is invaluable for shaping both the present and future. I would like to see the voting age lowered to 16 and a proper educational programme put in place, not least because what we find in the South is that when people leave to go to college and are voting for the first time, they are not registered at home. They would be registered to vote if the age was lowered. We need to encourage more young people to vote and to use their voices regardless of who they decide to vote for. It will make a huge difference to then getting policy influenced in favour of things that are important to young people. There are many issues that we have not discussed here today. I look forward to discussing them with our guests in the future.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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On behalf of the committee, I thank each and every one of you for coming in this morning and presenting so eloquently and confidently. This is certainly not the last time we are going to see some of you here, preferably as Members in time. It has been a pleasure to have you before the committee. I thank you for bringing this item to our attention. As agreed by the committee, we will write to the Departments of education, both North and South, the Ministers and the committees of the Houses and the Assembly. We will keep you informed of that through the clerk. To Erika, Grace, Zoe, Jayden, Buhle, Sophie and Margaret in the background - always in the background but always working - thank you all very much on behalf of the committee for your presentation this morning.