Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Chair and committee members for the invitation to discuss my Department’s proposed decarbonisation pathway for the transport sector, as we have set out in the Climate Action Plan 2023, CAP23. I am joined today by a number of my officials, including Mr. Naoise Grisewood, climate engagement and governance division; Ms Aoife O’Grady, Zero Emissions Vehicles Ireland, ZEVI; Mr. Caoimhín Ó Ciaruáin, assistant secretary and head of climate action and EU-international; and Mr. John Martin, climate engagement and governance division. They lead our key climate mitigation and adaptation efforts and policies within the Department of Transport.

This engagement is timely. I am sure members will have noted the publication of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s synthesis report announced earlier this week. The report’s findings are stark and unequivocal. The current pace and scale of climate action is insufficient and there is a rapidly closing window of opportunity to secure a liveable and sustainable future for all. The adverse impacts of climate change and extremes will become more widespread and pronounced, with compounding and cascading risks that will disproportionately affect the most vulnerable in our societies, who have historically contributed the least to the current climate crisis. It is now urgent that we ensure deep, rapid, sustained and accelerated implementation of both mitigation and adaptation actions in this decade and across all sectors and systems to halve our global greenhouse gas emissions by 2030.

It is against this backdrop and call for urgent action that we, as a Government, committed in legislation to reducing our national emissions by 51% by 2030, established our carbon budget programme and set out our legally binding sectoral emissions ceilings last July. CAP23 is the first instance that these carbon budgets and sectoral emissions ceilings have been incorporated into our annual climate action plan and the new transport chapter reflects this. Members will be aware that I am on record as stating that I believe achieving our target of 50% emissions abatement in transport by 2030 will be the most difficult of all the sectors. The chapter sets out the level of challenge and the system change required in delivering this level of abatement. It also sets out the wider well-being benefits that can be achieved across society from this transformation of our transport system.

In particular, and as was highlighted in the joint OECD-Climate Change Advisory Council report, Redesigning Ireland’s Transport for Net Zero, that was published last October, our existing transport system fosters growing car use and emissions by design. In developing the transport chapter of CAP23, my Department engaged closely with the Climate Change Advisory Council secretariat and the OECD team with regard to the key recommendations of their report, in addition to our own review and recalibration of a refreshed 50% transport decarbonisation pathway modelling undertaken with the National Transport Authority.

This consultative process included extensive engagements and workshops with agencies, academia and wider transport stakeholders. I am happy that the CAP23 transport chapter presents a refocused policy approach to that of CAP21 and takes account of that input as we pivot towards an avoid-shift-improve, ASI, framework for greater transport sustainability. This also reflects key recommendations and the approach of this committee’s own report from June 2021 on reducing transport emissions.

In total, we identified 15 key high-impact work programmes that we have grouped under this framework, alongside some cross-cutting horizontal and adaptation-focused work programmes. These programmes also build on and incorporate key actions and interventions identified under, for example, our national sustainable mobility policy, our road haulage strategy, the ZEVI work programme and national EV charging infrastructure strategy, as well as our renewable transport fuels policy, all of which have been developed and published over the past 12 months. I believe our approach has ensured a far greater integration of climate action across all transport modes and ensured these links are also baked into our spatial and land-use planning systems.

I would further note that a number of key assumptions that were included in the 50% decarbonisation pathway modelling should not be interpreted as representing committed Government policy, and further detailed policy work and design of interventions will be necessary over the coming months, such as in the consultation and design of a national demand management strategy. Ultimately, the key objective of this modelling work was to inform our understanding of what a 50% decarbonisation pathway in transport “looks like”, rather than simply modelling of committed measures. In this way, the modelling makes clear that while it will be extremely challenging, there is an achievable pathway to 50% emissions abatement by 2030.

We have set out key performance indicators, KPIs, and headline 2030 targets in the chapter to make clear to all just how transformative the level and scale of change that is required to meet a 50% pathway will be. In effect, we will need to: reduce total vehicle kilometres travelled by 20%; achieve a 50% reduction in fossil fuel usage in transport; accelerate vehicle fleet transition so that approximately one in three private cars is a battery electric vehicle by 2030; ensure that walking, cycling and public transport account for 50% of daily journeys, which will require a 50% increase in daily active travel journeys and a 130% increase in daily public transport journeys; and ensure a 25% reduction in daily car journeys.

I will be happy to speak further to these work programmes and targets in the following discussion. I will conclude my opening remarks by noting that to increase both the pace of emissions reduction in transport and to improve public well-being, we need to scale and prioritise policies with transformative potential and capacity to shift our transport systems away from car dependency. This will happen through measures such as road space reallocation, the mainstreaming of on-demand shared services, communication efforts to address car-centric mindsets and a rebalancing of our funding programmes to place greater emphasis on supplying the necessary charging infrastructure and enhanced public transport services that can accelerate this transition.

Moreover, while fleet electrification and the continued use of biofuels will provide the greatest share of emissions abatement in the medium term, a key recognition of COP23 is that the required level of transport emissions abatement cannot be achieved through a reliance on technological improvements alone. Approximately 2 million tonnes of emissions abatement will have to be achieved through avoid and shift measures that address the base demand for transport, and support behavioural change and modal shift from private car usage at an individual level.

There is a huge amount of activity under way, and some of the key climate action plan work programmes that will require close cross-governmental participation over the coming months include: next steps in the consultation; development and implementation of a national demand management strategy; the continuation of major public transport infrastructural projects through the planning system; the roll-out of additional rural mobility services through the National Transport Authority's Connecting Ireland programme; and a co-ordinated and targeted communications strategy to convey the wider well-being co-benefits that can be achieved through climate action in transport. I thank the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Bruton. This is, as I said, going to be the most challenging. Part of the reason it is challenging is because our population is increasing, the economy is increasing and transport takes time. We have baked in planning and transport models which are not easily changed. It takes a long time.

In the first of the carbon budgets, we are on track to meet our first target, but only just. We will not know the exact figures for 2022 until April. The Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, will come in the next week or two with the indicative figures. I do not have an indication yet as to what they are. I do not expect a significant reduction. The reason we are on track is that we were, obviously during the Covid-19 years, below what had been there before 2020. The indicative figures have made, perhaps, a very slight, marginal increase over 2021 and 2022, but not a significant reduction. We do need to start reducing that to meet our 2025 target. It is not impossible that we will do so, but it is very challenging. We are within the curve that we set out in the five-year path, but only just. It is a real challenge.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree absolutely with Deputy Bruton. The delivery of our Bus Connects project is painfully slow. That speaks to a wider problem we have in our planning system, and a need to accelerate our delivery of infrastructure across a whole range of different areas. Bus Connects in Dublin - and I know it is being rolled out in various cities - had a very difficult birth, where there was a lot of controversy, and in my mind correctly. The original designs were all about providing corridors rather than building communities, maintaining as much lanes into the city as possible, and in the process of doing that, taking out front gardens, taking down trees and going through villages in a way that undermined the urban landscape and sense of community. That was a mistake. In fairness to the NTA, they revised through what was a difficult public consultation process, and they came back with better proposals. We are delivering the network review but now the Bus Connects corridors - that second part of it - is the one that is particularly slow.

I mentioned the planning system, because that is now a critical constraint. I will give an example. The first of the Bus Connects corridors which went into planning - and the majority of the remaining ones will all be within An Bord Pleanála in the coming weeks - was Clongriffin to Dublin city centre. This was a relatively straightforward project, and relatively uncontroversial, although these things are never completely uncontroversial. It went into An Bord Pleanála first. I think it was due for decision last October. That has now been put back to sometime this summer, and all the other projects are in an uncertain timeline, as are all the public transport projects.

I will have to be up front and honest. The ability of An Bord Pleanála to deliver decisions on our transport, housing, energy and other infrastructure is the greatest constraint facing the country. It is the biggest problem we have, in my mind, with regard to meeting our climate targets, delivering housing, water and other infrastructure we need for our future. That is why I am supportive of the Bill before the House which will try and streamline and improve our planning system to deliver it. That is probably the key constraint.

In the absence of the delivery of those, I will be looking, subject to the demand management study that is out for consultation at this moment in time, particularly at the case for road space reallocation, and using that as a mechanism to improve our demand management in transport. It may provide mechanisms. We also have legislation before the Seanad at the moment, which is due to conclude in the coming weeks, which will further support the use of experimental traffic management orders to deliver some of the elements of bus priority and cycling safety which we need to make the modal shift to meet climate targets and reduce congestion. It does not require us to wait for the entire planning system to deliver all the final projects. Yes, we will follow that course and we will obviously stick to the law and the planning approach. In the interim, while we are waiting for the planning system to deliver its verdict, we may have the capability, and should deliver a lot of improvements through what are experimental, short-term measures.

I am sorry for going into this at length, but it is an important issue and it is going to be an important political issue.

The 35 Pathfinder projects under our sustainable mobility task force leadership group, which is all about what we deliver in the next two and a half years to the end of 2025, will deliver in the likes of Dublin, Galway and Limerick city centres the ability to improve immediately the bus and cycling environment.

The mobility hubs are due to be funded by the Climate Action Fund. We have to tick all the boxes in the procurement process, but, while doing that, we can start to get the design details right and get ready for delivery very quickly. This is based on the example we saw in Finglas, where Dublin City Council used municipal land and put in a grid connection and charging infrastructure available to car-sharing and bike-sharing clubs. The model can be replicated right across the five cities, in particular. It is very suited to urban areas where one might not be able to install a charger at home. Also, it leads us towards where we need to go. We have to be careful that we do not replace overreliance on fossil fuels with overreliance on rare-earth metals and scarce copper, cobalt, aluminium and lithium.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Centralisation is very much the idea. The Deputy asked about the numbers but we do not have the final details yet. However, there could and should be up to perhaps 200 mobility hubs. This would give great flexibility in terms of vehicles and the ability to involve various operators. We are talking about scale. To achieve this, the likes of the NTA must work with the local authorities to have a modular scheme that can be replicated, thereby bringing down the cost and increasing the speed of delivery. We have taken on additional staff with genuine expertise in this area. While ticking all the procurement boxes, we will be advancing the design and procurement mechanisms so the system will be ready to go as soon as the public procurement is completed.

With regard to SUVs, the Deputy is absolutely correct that there is a genuine issue with embodied energy, steel and all the other components in such vehicles. There are also road safety concerns in that if one is hit by a vehicle of the weight and size of an SUV, it is much more significant than if one is hit by a lighter vehicle. Also, parking-space requirements and the cost must be considered. While SUVs vary in range, they can be very expensive.

The Government has already introduced a range of initiatives to get people to switch to lighter and less expensive vehicles. The system for vehicle registration tax has been radically changed in the past three years.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is a lot of information provided on grams per kilometre. As I understand it, the laden weight of a vehicle and other such information is available. The key approach in the first instance is putting a price on it. The owners of larger, very expensive vehicles, in particular, do not get to avail of EV grants and the VRT reductions. We are reviewing, as part of the process of changing our policies by design, the issue of car design. That was one of the controversial issues picked up in some of our demand-management studies. It is a case of considering measures that make the required information clear to the public. The likes of vehicle weight could be dealt with in the advertising review.

On the rental schemes, we are developing guidelines for local authorities on e-bike rental and scooter schemes. The transport legislation I mentioned, which is due to be concluded in the Seanad in the coming weeks and hopefully signed by the President thereafter, will change the environment to make it legal for us to have e-scooters. It presents an opportunity for us to learn from what has happened and what has worked or not in other cities in terms of rental schemes for both e-bikes and e-scooters. The guidelines on this are being worked on in the Department.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If the Deputy gives me a second, I will get it.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I can give the Deputy the figures for budget 2023. The matter is complicated by the fact that much of the funding and responsibility has been transferred from the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications to the Department of Transport in the past two to three years. The funding in 2021 might have been the overall funding because there would have been a variety of mechanisms for charging infrastructure. The funding for these mechanisms might have been some €100 million, whereas the EV grant funding was €36 million, I think. That may be the cause of a certain amount of the confusion.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Over the years, many of those supports were to start and stimulate an industry. However, I tend to agree with the Deputy and that is why I changed the rules so the buyers of vehicles worth €60,000 and more would not get grants. These cars are very expensive, so-----

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is why changes are being made continually. As signalled in budget 2023 and announced yesterday, it is not a matter of having a cliff edge but of switching gradually. I am referring to a slightly lower grant but one that is still very significant. A slight reduction gives a signal. It will take time to achieve what we desire but we need to meet our targets. It is a case of switching from funding EVs to funding charging infrastructure that is available to everyone, including the mobility hubs. Also, taxi grants represent better targeting. Since taxis are on the road much more than other vehicles and have greater mileage, the air-quality benefit and emissions reductions achieved are more significant.

We are evolving the grant support system towards having more charging supports and more targeted supports, and we have already adjusted it so those very expensive vehicles do not avail of the grants.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The first response in this regard is to start providing rural areas with public transport. We are already doing this. We have introduced about 70 new bus routes in rural areas in the last year.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are only warming up on rural links and the Connecting Ireland rural mobility plan. What is being seen is that the increase in public transport numbers in rural areas is way ahead of anywhere else. There has been a major increase. Leaving that point aside, the Deputy is right in that rural areas are the areas in which EVs will be of most benefit and more easily deployed because we will not have the problem we see in some urban areas in the context of how home charging is addressed. We do want home charging to be the centre of this undertaking, not only because it is cheaper but because we can time it so that it balances our renewable power supply. From that perspective, it is really advantageous. People in rural areas tend to do a large amount of driving, so the emissions reduction we get from EVs in rural areas is better than in urban areas. I absolutely agree with the Deputy's point regarding rural areas. I do not think, though, that we should pitch town against country on this issue-----

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The grant scheme we introduced some months ago for rural sports clubs has had a great response. Right across the country, therefore, people are picking up on this.

The Deputy is right that EVs are typically more expensive. They are coming down in price. There are conflictual aspects to this. The war in Ukraine has driven up the price of lithium, rare earth and other materials. There have also been supply chain difficulties. This context has presented a difficulty in respect of putting up prices. How this washes out exactly will depend on what happens in the war and in the context of wider global supply chain issues. If we look at what manufacturers are doing, however, a range of lower-cost vehicles is now starting to become available. There always were such vehicles, but these are now lower-cost cars that can still achieve a good range. I refer to the Fiat 500e, the new Nissan Leaf and the Peugeot e-208, all of which cost less than €30,000. I was in China last week and saw the latest BYD vehicle, which will be coming here and which will cost approximately €32,000. I have been told that Volkswagen is also launching a vehicle that will cost under €30,000. I am mentioning just some examples at random. Every car company is going in this direction. As the scale of production increases, and as these companies' entire ranges switch to being electric, we will start to see lower cost EVs. In effect, the entire market is going to go electric.

Dublin accounts for half of all EV sales. This is not a bad thing for a variety of reasons. One is that those EVs will then turn into the vehicles offered for sale in the second-hand market. We need a second-hand market in EVs. We also need commercial fleets. As the scale of production starts to increase, which it is and continues to do this year, all these vehicles will then start to turn into a second-hand market across the island. I would be very reluctant to get down to a geographically-based grant scheme. We would then be contending with questions such as where to draw the boundary-----

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We will continue to look at this, but I am concerned nervous that once we start going down the path of grants based on geography, it would be possible to buy a car in one place and send it to another. My brother down in Cork could buy it, I could then buy it and bring it up here. We could have all sorts of distortions that could start to create difficulties. Where we do need to be strategic, especially in rural Ireland and in the more remote areas, is having destination charging and community charging. We are going to do that through our ZEVI offices. This is an area in which we have particular potential. As much as people in rural Ireland have an advantage in terms of housing, which tends to make home charging easier, there is a difficulty in areas like the Dingle peninsula, western Connemara, Donegal and all these areas. We can and should be strategic in putting in what is needed there. We are doing this now. We are being strategic as well in the midlands being part of our just transition scheme. Those areas will be ahead of the curve because they are going to get significant fast-charging infrastructure ahead of other parts of the country. This is an example of the type of a targeted approach referred to. This is a better way of doing it rather than trying to create this strange, two-tiered car market in the country, depending on one's postcode. I could see difficulties in that approach. I can understand the logic behind what the Deputy is saying, but I think we might have distortionary affects that would have unintended knock-on consequences.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Not everyone in Dublin is rich.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They are not grant-aided. We changed the rules.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I was not aware of that, but my initial response is that the more transparent we are with information, the better. I will follow up and try to find out what the issue is but my instinct suggests there is no reason not to share the data, especially if we did so in the past.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No, not to my knowledge.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As it happens, the Government yesterday agreed on a strategy regarding the public service and Departments, and we have a similar strategy with regard to State agencies. I am very frank and forthright with various State agencies and other bodies that they need to be part of the change, including our transport companies.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not disagree, but the outline of the strategy is to avoid the use of vehicles as much as we can, although it is not against people driving. Most of us drive and it is not intended to shame and blame people, but we need a 25% reduction in daily car journeys to meet our targets but also to reduce congestion as well some of the other externalities in health and the use of other resources, such as the pollution that arises from tyre rubber eroding and being washed into the water system and so on. There are many different externalities in this regard. Our entire policy is towards reducing some of those impacts and improving the environment for everyone, including car drivers.

On the nature of our cars, we have made significant changes to try to switch towards lighter and less expensive vehicles with less embodied energy and emissions within them. I do not have the figures in front of me but the changes to the tax code in that regard in recent years are very significant. We are takers of car technology in the sense we do not make cars in this country. The Cathaoirleach is correct to say the statistic is staggering, although I had not heard it and I find it difficult to believe. I would have thought, when I was growing up, that the Volkswagen Passat was a big car, and if 99% of cars nowadays are bigger than that-----

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is very significant. As for the reason for that, there may be a knock-on effect whereby people think that because other cars are big, they also need a bigger car to protect themselves, and there may be a circular effect in that regard on the size of cars. We need to design the transport system differently and, as the OECD maintains, we need to do it by design because we have been doing it the other way for many decades. We need to create a safe space for more vulnerable road users, shift to other public transport modes and promote lighter vehicles in whatever way we can through our advertising of the system, and we will do that. We should not, however, go about it on the basis of naming and shaming. I am not sure that would bring us in the direction we need to go.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

To come back to what I said about the OECD criticism that we were fostering a car-based system by design, part of the problem with that was our broader modelling in this sense. If you looked at a road project, it would be a small section, you would upgrade the road and the time savings on that in terms of quicker journeys, how much that was worth and "X", "Y" and "Z" and you would suddenly get a massive cost-benefit gain. What we were not modelling previously was whether we were inducing traffic, creating a dependence on a certain type of system and not properly counting the carbon or the other externalities we mentioned earlier. That is changing. The NTA's modelling is improving in its sophistication and the way we assess transport projects is changing. The modelling cannot bring it back down to the exact curbside and what the impact is if someone is parked the wrong way. It does not provide that level of detail but there are other mechanisms for addressing that.

The Cathaoirleach is correct about enforcement and how An Garda Síochána and the RSA have a key role to play in making sure our roads and people's behaviour are safe. We had a problem coming out of Covid. It is very uncertain as to why there was a spike in road fatalities and injuries last year. One possible cause was the fact that during the lockdown periods, we did not have as significant enforcement as we had previously or traffic volumes might have been lighter and motorist behaviour changed. We need to enhance matters. I know the RSA and An Garda Síochána are looking at this.

I had a meeting yesterday concerning the latest review of road speeds. This has a role. What the Cathaoirleach said is true. Whenever road usage is assessed, a very high percentage of car journeys are above the regulated speed limit. Nobody can hold up his or her hand and say he or she is perfect but the implications of that, particularly if it is a heavy vehicle, are more significant from car, van or truck drivers. We are reviewing road speeds and looking at examples introduced that have been successful such as the Dublin Port Tunnel where there is an average speed camera system. That is expensive infrastructure to put in but we can use those sort of measures. It is a matter of changing everything. It is a matter of moving towards promoting more sustainable transport modes and policing the existing one better and this involves An Garda Síochána, the RSA, local authorities, TII and the NTA and their responsibility for the road network.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A lot of our sustainable mobility policies are focused on that for road safety reasons as well as environmental reasons.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As I raised with other speakers earlier, we do need to shift away from those heavier vehicles. We are looking at it. Within the climate action plan, there is a commitment to look at sectoral reforms to taxation on an environmental basis. We will continue to do that with the Department of Finance. It is not just fixed as we are at this present time. One does this in the budgetary process and through the tax strategy group and so on. We will look at those other models and examples, including the French model. I would not rule that out. It is an area where we have already done a lot but perhaps we could go further.

If I heard her correctly, the Senator said that we should be doing congestion charges. My own view on this goes back to the discussion with Deputy Bruton earlier. I believe that one of our first priorities should be road space reallocation and in demand management to those mechanisms. Using that method, one has the ability to improve the public transport alternative. There are huge benefits to doing the modal shift that we need to make. If one just does it just as a punitive charge and does not make the other alternatives better, quicker, cheaper or easier, then I believe that is not fair.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is a political issue because what it requires, more than anything else, is political commitment at local government level to make hard decisions. The road space reallocation is not easy. It requires budgets, but it is something that is within our control as politicians and within the democratic system through local councils being willing to be ambitious and brave. That is not easy and this is where we need to focus our attention. There is also a benefit in that it can deliver benefits quickly.

It also has a social justice aspect. There are those parts of the country where people cannot afford a car or there are people who, for whatever variety of reasons, are not driving. The benefit in terms of road space reallocation and improving their public transport system, their safe walking route and their cycle environment, is a huge social justice gained. I always keep going back to that as where we should really focus. There may also be other people who are on low incomes and for whatever reasons may have to drive. If we just do this as a punitive thing on them it would have an adverse socioeconomic effect.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I did want to comment on that because the Senator asked if we should do congestion charges now. That is how I heard it. My instinct is "No", we should do the road space reallocation first.

The Senator is right that we do need to introduce the E10 fuel because it is a significant component in meeting our climate targets for 2030 and for 2025. There is a time urgency on this. I will look at the issue the Senator mentioned as an example. It is my understanding that the cars for which this may present difficulty are very much vintage cars that are more than 20 years old. This is what I am informed by. Even there, if a car is well serviced and so on, it may not be an insurmountable problem. I will look at the-----

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The number of people with cars that are more than 20 years old is very low. It tends to be a vintage car enthusiast type market. That is my understanding.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We will look at this. There is always the possibility of having specialist stocks, or are looking at specialist stocks for that, but to my mind it will not be mainstream. We are not going to have an entire alternative petrol distribution system in every forecourt right across the country. That would be a hugely expensive way to provide fuel for a tiny percentage of vehicle owners. We can and will look at whether there is a possibility for people who have very old vehicles, be they vintage car enthusiasts or others, to make sure they have some access to fuel so they are not disadvantaged.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not know. I know Brittas like the back of my hand. I love it and I know exactly what the Deputy is talking about when this could happen on a warm summer's day. It tends to be Saturdays and Sundays and depends on the weather but I know exactly what the Deputy is talking about. That is a trickier service because typically what we are doing is all-year round-----

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I was not aware of that service. I will look at that and add to the Deputy's question on whether it is possible for us to provide more seasonal services. I could see the benefits of that in some ways.

Brittas is a wonderful place where it would make sense in the summer, because the population expands massively. I will ask about that because I do not have the answer to the question.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What is happening with Connecting Ireland is really significant and it is already working. It only started in 2021 when we introduced two services. The first one was in Leitrim, with the integration of health service bus needs with a Local Link regular public service obligation, PSO, service. The numbers using the service jumped. The second example was around the Dingle Peninsula and Slea Head in County Kerry, where what had been an erratic and infrequent service became a regular service. I cannot remember the figure but I think there was a 20-fold increase in patronage. It was typically used by younger people going into town or to a match. There was a huge increase in local usage. It was not just tourists in that instance. People might say that would be the case in the summer but what surprised everyone was that the usage continued right through the winter. For local people, it is a hugely important service. I do not have the figures in front of me but I think we have introduced approximately 70 new routes, and we are not stopping there. This is a five-year roll-out. The Local Link service has gone from having a budget of about €12 million a few years ago to €28 million last year, and that will continue to be ramped up.

On the Connecting Ireland piece, it is not always provided by Local Link. Bus Éireann also provides some of the PSO routes. I agree with the Deputy, however, Local Link has real potential. It is about 20 years in existence and has community-based, bottom-up local knowledge. The way it works is that the NTA is key in designing routes and service provision, while Local Link typically provides the transport centres, the local knowledge and access connections mechanism, and then there are the operators. The bus companies could be commercial bus companies and are often the same people providing other transport services.

It is about the integration of the new PSO services with health services, and I hope it will evolve to include education as well, so that there is a regular frequency of service. We are initially providing is a service that runs three times a day but, when we get the numbers up and integrate it with other health and education services, we hope to increase that to five times a day. That will then create a virtuous circle where it is regular and reliable. We need to do a lot of work. We need to put in bus stops. It is not clear where the stops are and that needs to change. We need to do much better marketing, including online, and use it for all the apps that will be developed in order that people have better knowledge of the service. It is actually taking off. The numbers have been transformative. It is really popular.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are doing that at scale.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree with the Chair. There are several other examples as well as Limerick, such as Waterford, Cork and Galway. The Chair is right. The national planning framework is the correct plan for the future of our country, in stating that we need better balanced regional development. We have excess development in the east coast compared with the west, south west and south east. The development of Cork, Galway, Waterford and Limerick is not going to undermine Dublin; it will actually help it. It will help to bring down house prices and reduce congestion, with the country overall benefitting. It needs to be compact, low-carbon development, which is at the centre of the national planning framework.

To do this, we need to intervene by progressively investing in the transport infrastructure, particularly in the centre of the cities, to bring life back into the centre. Each city has seen the characteristic of "doughnut development", whereby there has been flight from the centre to distant areas. This is what the OECD is talking about, as much as anything else, when it refers to car-centric by design. The Colbert Station site, or I could mention the Moyross station, is a perfect example of what we need to do as an alternative. My understanding is that the Land Development Agency, LDA, will in the coming weeks bring before Cabinet a paper with an updated assessment on State-owned lands, in terms of what stage of preparation we are at, for the development of those stations for new housing infrastructure.

The Colbert Station site was the first site the LDA recognised and we need to deliver it now. We need to go from talking about plans to delivering planning permissions. I understand the LDA is preparing a planning application. It might be next year before it happens, but I understand that is where the LDA is at. It must no longer be in theory; it must be in practice. Therefore, investment decision to reopen the Shannon-Foynes line, which will require the reopening of the old siding to bring it into the Colbert Station, is an example of where the transport decisions that are made are backed up and implemented along with the housing and development decisions.

If I may, I will refer to a second example because it occurred recently. We have just invested €200 million in Waterford city, with approximately €100 million of this being invested in a new sustainable mobility bridge across the River Suir to the North Quays, and to move the train station to the same location. This is with the understanding that we will then develop housing and retail offices on that side of the city. This will develop and rapidly expand Waterford city. It is already expanding - it is the fastest growing city in the country - but it needs to grow further and faster. It needs to be the capital of the south east. To do that, we need to take certain risks. With apartment building being expensive, it is not easier or cheaper to build in Waterford than in Dublin, but the market values are not as high in some of the areas where apartments may be built. We as a State need to be willing to take risks and start providing a lot of apartment and higher-density type accommodation close to the centre. I believe there will be a market for this and we will be able to do the cost-rental model in those sort of locations to really see a revival of the centre of regional cities.

Cork is another example but it is slightly trickier. The big site on which everybody is fixated is Tivoli, which is currently used for a lot of industrial purposes such as container transport, logistics and haulage, but it is within very close walking distance of the city centre. It is a stunning location on the River Lee.

The first and most important investment of the recovery and resilience fund was the upgrading of the Midleton to Mallow metropolitan rail line, because we could run through Kent Station and we could put in new stations in the likes of Tivoli, Blarney and Monard to do exactly what the Chair spoke about. Cork, where everyone moved out to Ballincollig and Carrigaline, is another perfect example. They are great places but we need to bring populations back into the centre as well as developing the suburbs. It will take some time but the investment in the rail infrastructure is important.

We cannot move the port until the Ringaskiddy Port option is upgraded with new road access. We are investing in it now with a view to the coming years. The transport infrastructure comes in ahead of the housing infrastructure but it initiates and spurs it. It is the same in Galway with the development around Ceannt Station and Oranmore. The examples of Moyross and Colbert in Limerick, Tivoli in Cork, the North Quays in Waterford and around Ceannt Station and Oranmore in Galway are designed to do exactly what the Chair is talking about.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree. Limerick has four rail lines that can be used. If we were to build them new, it would cost billions and the economics might not stack up, but given that we have the rail infrastructure, every time we have put the stations in and provided new services, we have seen the public flock to them, in spite of the low expectations in terms of usage. Limerick needs to be twice the size. The Buchanan report back in the 1960s set targets which it has never reached. It is good for the entire country if Limerick has a strong vibrant core, in particular in the historic core because it is such a beautiful city. If we make the investment in the transport infrastructure and also do the initial development of housing close to the centre, people will see it as a very attractive place to live and the whole process will then pick up. It is not just the State but the State needs to lead.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The truth is Moyross is not far from Limerick city centre. It was just cut off by the lack of transport infrastructure. We have provided new bus services in Moyross. We will build a high quality active travel connection to the likes of Moyross. We will put a rail station in Moyross. The prize is that it has the potential to use those hundreds of acres of under-utilised State land, which is within walking distance of Limerick city centre.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree with Senator Higgins on the need for reform of our public procurement and public spending code. That is going to happen in the second quarter of this year, so as to ensure we take a wider account of environmental benefits. My understanding is that the shadow price of carbon, which used to be something like €50 a tonne, is going to go over €300 per tonne.

There is also the need for more qualitative assessment of other variables so it is not just a time reduction cost-benefit equation, which is what it used to be. That needs to change.

On the western rail corridor, I agree. The strategic rail review is due. One of the most difficult areas in decarbonisation of transport is freight. We will have to have radical reform. Our ports will have to change. It is deeply embarrassing to look at the percentage of rail freight. Rail freight has challenges and difficulties but we need to change our ports so they are part of the more sustainable future. As part of that, we can invest in Rosslare, open up the line from Rosslare to Waterford and, as the Senator says, do the section from Athenry to Claremorris. Then, strategically, there is a western rail corridor running all the way from Rosslare to Ballina and Westport. All the industries along it will have connectivity to deep water ports in Shannon Foynes, Cork, Waterford and Rosslare by rail, as well as Dublin Port. Dublin Port needs to-----

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes, but to finish my point, Dublin Port needs to change. We have an issue with excessive development on the east coast. The vast majority of the roll-on, roll-off traffic comes into the centre of Dublin and goes onto the M50 which cannot take further traffic. It is an area of the city with major potential for, as Deputy Leddin said, transport-led development and good, compact development close to the city centre. There is a strategic question of whether we just see Dublin Port continue to grow, advance and dominate our transport system without effective rail freight connectivity. The port has one train per week, I think, coming in from Tara mines. It is infrequent. Integration of what happens in Dublin, Rosslare, Cork, Waterford and Shannon Foynes ports into a new transport haulage systems is significant and urgent. Little attention is given, including by our port agencies, to the scale of change needed. I will focus on that in the coming months.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree with the Senator that there is a fundamental injustice in the climate justice of the world in that aviation and the maritime sector do not pay their way or contribute and are major causes of greenhouse gas emissions. The resolution of that has to be done at an international level. I am supportive of that.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Will the Senator explain what the subsidy is?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will have to come back to the Senator on the technicalities of that. My first emphasis is on trying to get agreement on the delivery of the strategic rail review and the TEN-T application, I am sure, will reflect that. I agree with the Senator that the lack of any taxation on international transport fuels needs to be addressed.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not think the funding of that will depend on the TEN-T funding.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is something like 10%, I think. It helps in the planning and development, rather than in the major construction costs.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is my understanding.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I understand the question. There is not a direct answer. The critical problem we have concerns getting planning permission for transport projects already in train. We have the metro, Dart+ West-----

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is imminent. I do not have the exact timeline but I got a presentation on it a number of weeks ago and expect to be able to bring it to fruition quickly.

I want to mark one thing. We are an outlier in the dramatic increase in use, which is partly due to the reductions in transport fares of 20% generally and 50% for those aged under 24. Dublin Bus passenger numbers are 10% above pre-Covid levels. Outside the capital, public transport numbers are up 31% on pre-Covid levels. This is an unprecedented increase and has not happened in other countries.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree we have to prioritise investment in public transport and alternatives. Particularly in the case of the approach roads to Dublin, there is a fundamental problem in that the M50 is full to capacity and there is no potential for any excess capacity. Within the M50, we will introduce demand management, road space reallocation and BusConnects services. It does not make strategic sense for us to try to increase the volume of traffic coming into the city or going around the M50. That requires investment in the likes of the Connecting Ireland service and other services and will involve improving the bus system, in particular, in advance of rail taking longer, although we will need to provide rail as well with the likes of the Navan rail line. We need to invest in those sustainable solutions that free up the road space for everyone because they take cars off the road and mean we are not all stuck in traffic.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As I said, we do have to prioritise. The NDP stands. It is not that any projects are being dropped but there are certain projects we have to advance. The Government has set out an agreed approach whereby we will invest 10% of our capital budget in active travel, as is absolutely appropriate, and the first step we need to take is to retain the existing road network to ensure it will be safe, that its surface will be protected and so on. That will take a significant investment. The remaining budget is 2:1 in favour of public transport to roads. In the roads network, we need to prioritise a lot of bypasses because that has potential to develop town centres first and the transport-led development we mentioned earlier, which are the areas for prioritisation in our capital budget.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree. We cannot rely on offsetting as the way of addressing the bigger problem we have. We do need to reduce our level of travel, going back to "avoid, shift, improve". Even for personal or family reasons, if we are travelling all the time, that is not necessarily family friendly and reducing that travel could have a range of other benefits. The public sector has to meet its target of a 50% reduction in emissions. Post Covid, one of the changes has been the use of online, virtual meetings and that has been of much benefit. Meetings still need to be held in person as well and it is not that we will never fly or have to go abroad, but my view is the more we can reduce that compared with what was the tradition, the better it will be for all concerned, such as politicians and civil servants. It is no fun being on a 6 a.m. flight.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not know the answer to that question but I will ask my officials to revert to the Senator.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy is correct about new developments. We have to stitch in rules such that EV chargers will be there by default, without having to be retrofitted-----

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We will have to look at how we speed that up-----

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The point I was going to make is that we are going to public consultation next month, as I understand, on settlement guidelines to ensure new areas of development will have to have different rules for EV charging and parking in order that we will move towards-----

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

True. Most of our cities could be described in that way. My understanding is that, where an area is not taken in charge, that issue is the responsibility of the local authority.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am sorry - it is the responsibility of the local authority to ensure an area is taken in charge.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree, and we need to accelerate that process. I cannot resolve the matter by fiat. We need local authorities to improve their ability to accelerate it while we design new settlement guidelines for new developments.

Similarly, I may have given the wrong impression earlier, I do not believe we can deliver the BusConnects infrastructure by fiat or experimental traffic orders, but we can see if some elements of it can be delivered in a way that could be reversed easily if we ran into legal or planning difficulties. There are parts of Dublin city where no BusConnects corridors are planned, for example, the area of Gardiner Street, Beresford Place, Summerhill and the north quays. At the same time, there are areas that are dominated by large, gyratory, one-way traffic management systems. It would be appropriate for us to consider those and other areas, particularly across the city centre, where we might be able to reconfigure on an experimental basis how the city's transport system works. Coming out of Covid, the entire traffic system around the city has changed anyway. It will not work or be effective if we allow all of the traffic to return and retake all the road space.

I agree that we need to let the main bus corridors go through the planning process. The delay is a significant problem, but that should not stop us from enhancing some individual elements – a bus gate or a particular street – on an experimental basis or through the pathfinder process in which we are engaged. This, rather than replacing the BusConnects planning system, is where we will have an opportunity to manage demand, which we need to do.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes. Part of the way we can manage that is by using some of the parking spaces for charging so that we will not be incentivising the excess use of cars. However, there is an issue for those in areas where they cannot charge. There must be some facility so that, if people have to have cars, they do not need to be fossil fuel cars.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Agreed.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In response to Deputy Whitmore, we will publish guidelines later this year on safety and accessibility issues relating to EV charging.

We will have to wait for the advertising review, but I am not aware of, and am not pushing for at this time, a complete ban. We can review that position, of course – in all these matters, we have to keep considering various options – but that is not something that I have seen suggested yet.

I am not aware of a scrappage scheme or any of the other schemes Deputy O'Rourke stated were reported. I am not saying that we would not consider them, but they are not centre stage in our thinking.

I agree with Senator Higgins that resourcing An Bord Pleanála and local authorities is an issue – it is probably the most important one – but there is also an issue with the timeliness of our planning system. It is a problem. The 2000 Act is complex, has been revised and amended many times and has many contradictory provisions. It needs to be upgraded, modernised and reformed. I understand that the Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage is engaging in pre-legislative scrutiny in this regard. We need the new legislation to be in place for this summer. All of the projects under my area of responsibility have been stuck in the planning process for an inordinate amount of time. This is not just because of the resource issues at An Bord Pleanála, but because our planning system is not functioning. I am sorry – it functions, but it is way too slow and we have a real problem.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It will have to go to the Government first. There have been slight changes in the plans even this week. For example, there will be a vote of confidence next Tuesday.

I was meant to be at the EU Energy Council. I may have to reconsider that now because of the vote of confidence. The strategy was due to go to Government slightly later than that. We will have to get the timeline of the Government on that. The strategy was going to Government for information. We are up and running and doing the work in the climate action plan.

The strength of our legislation should not be underestimated. The requirement for us to deliver on the provisions in the climate action plan is backed up by strong law. As one of the actions in our climate action plan, the demand management piece must and will proceed. Much of the reporting on it last week was speculative in indicating that it definitely means this or that. It does not. We are looking at options but the options should be aimed at accelerating the active travel public transport alternatives as well as the work that has been ongoing. We should not wait until the end of the year for the demand management study to finish. We need to deliver the 35 pathfinder projects we have in train. The Deputy will be aware of the recent good news in Limerick where it seems planning for the route along the South Circular Road has got through the council. There is also good news in Naas. I understand Kildare County Council is supporting a significant project to reform the town. There is also good news in Athlone, where we put in the electric bus service and in Waterford where we are building the River Suir sustainable transport bridge.

We need to change everything very quickly if we are going to meet these climate targets. Doing so will be good for the country, both urban and rural areas. We must not wait for the demand management strategy to be completed. We have to start building and delivering now.